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Hi everyone,
I´ve got a question, it won´t get out of mind:
What about UI guidelines for ALL developers and applications ? What about a collection of graphics and tutorials so every app gets a proper interface?
Apple does this with OS X and iPhone, and as far as I know it works. So why don´t start something like this with WindowsMobile ?
I´m dreaming of some kind of Xda-Devs library which is a wiki as well as a resource for graphics and animation frameworks. If we put our talents and efforts together I think this is doable !
It's a nice idea, but why? You say Apple does this, but it's why we have WinMo ! Everything is different, don't want everything looking the same!
TheChampJT said:
It's a nice idea, but why? You say Apple does this, but it's why we have WinMo ! Everything is different, don't want everything looking the same!
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*lol* You got that wrong, I don´t want to look everything the same. But we could increase the popularity and usability of WM immense if we could provide some kind of library.
I´m not talking about apps which are skinable. I´m talking about replacing the standard WinForms, so it looks nicer and is more fingerfriendly.
And when you say the different styles make WM unique - you wanna tell me missing usability is an argument to buy an WM phone ?!?
TheChampJT said:
It's a nice idea, but why? You say Apple does this, but it's why we have WinMo ! Everything is different, don't want everything looking the same!
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Click to collapse
Actually EVERYONE does this. Gnome, KDE, Apple, Microsoft all spend lots of time and money on the research of UI Guidelines. Its brings the whole community so much close and leads to a fluint interface experience. Apple and the latest versions of KDE being a case in point. If we as a community lay down some guidlines on what works best where with Touch, Stylus and keyboard navigation we will already be one step closer to more usable devices. Being a programmer by trade I spend hours making sure that my UI is as close to what ppl are use to ATM ie: The Office 2007 UI. So many ppl are upgrading to this new look and feel. So my application needs to follow suit since it gets used withing corporate environments
Thats just my 2c. Hope its well spent
m.schmidler said:
*lol* You got that wrong, I don´t want to look everything the same. But we could increase the popularity and usability of WM immense if we could provide some kind of library.
I´m not talking about apps which are skinable. I´m talking about replacing the standard WinForms, so it looks nicer and is more fingerfriendly.
And when you say the different styles make WM unique - you wanna tell me missing usability is an argument to buy an WM phone ?!?
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I was under the assumption that the desired direction, judging by all of the most popular apps on this site, was to have apps that were fully skinable and completely finger friendly (at least where it makes sense).
Personally, i think if we follow the style like iphone of designing their apps, it would be quite boring, this forum apps would not be special anymore. However, i think there would be advantages too.
Precisely hazeline, we should figure out what works for us and work from there. When you look at apps like Manilla 2D and TouchFlo 3D even though they are great they are lacking some basic fluincy.
Im gonna have a look over then next week and see if I can knock together something for facebook for our WinMo devices. It seems like this would a good start for me to see what I would like changed in a basic UI
removed. doh bleh
please remove.
cornelha said:
Precisely hazeline, we should figure out what works for us and work from there. When you look at apps like Manilla 2D and TouchFlo 3D even though they are great they are lacking some basic fluincy.
Im gonna have a look over then next week and see if I can knock together something for facebook for our WinMo devices. It seems like this would a good start for me to see what I would like changed in a basic UI
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Click to collapse
absolutely agree. When I first saw the facebook shots I thought "wow, we need those gfx for other apps". So, any (Xperia) users in here, what about extracting those gfx for us ?
regards,
Martin
I noticed Microsoft released some sort of guide for developers a few days ago, you can find it here: http://www.codeplex.com/AppArch/Release/ProjectReleases.aspx?ReleaseId=19798
I also tried to copy the Facebook-Panel style, don´t criticise me, I just did this in a couple of minutes, if I put some efforts in this it would look definetely better
Although this thread isn´t that crowded I still hope this becomes a big community project, it IS possible, there are some many talented people in here !
regards,
Martin
m.schmidler said:
I also tried to copy the Facebook-Panel style, don´t criticise me, I just did this in a couple of minutes, if I put some efforts in this it would look definetely better
regards,
Martin
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Believe me, it's NOT that bad..
and I like the idea too...
We could implement some sort of XDA-Oficial Theme...
And this way we would have at least some common ground from were to start..
I also develop for the device, and too often, my major worry/problem is how to go for a Nice graphical interface...
It would also be goo to have some sort of listing of Graphic experienced users, willing to help developers...
thx but as I said, I really could do a complete set of such graphics...problem is I´m busy with school and as you may know with the TL theme as well.
My intention is to really get all devs and designers in here and discuss how to create a basis which every developer can build upon.
I don´t know the differences between C++ and C# apps but maybe someone tells me how difficult it is to develop a framework for animations which everyone can use.
The outcome should be what script.aculo.us is for web-developers.
Graphics should be created according to a certain pattern, so we should create a list of button-types which every designer can refer to.
regards,
Martin
Ok, here is my sorta long post/idea.
I really hate seeing the developers continuously posting on bad links (not bad but ones that you have to wait or they get deleted not long after...aka megaupload or mediafire or rapidshare, etc.) to which it is not their fault at all, its simply because they do not have anywhere to upload that is stable, fast and doesnt delete.
I also see the developers forum quickly getting disorganized not because of clutter but because its hard to tell exactly what is what (development or actual roms). This causes noobs to flash stuff they dont even know what it is. No ones fault, just forums are hard to make distiguishing facts like that (all the topics look the same).
So, as many have stated before and I agreed many times to myself, it would be an extremely good idea to make a spot where the developers can put their work in one place, have the files in one place, and have everything organized. I personally think that would be a huge bonus to all this wonderful crazy android developments (phones not even out yet are getting put on our g1...haha thats awesome).
So, you ask where am I going? Simple, this is what I have come up with as a concept, though I need some help. I need some designers to make some nice graphics (I do web stuff not graphics), and I need someone that is willing to put their VDS (or a dedicated server) server up for use. I can put ads on there so dont worry if you need some helper money .
Here is my conceptual screenshot, I tried to make it simple looking, everything was free (opensource), so it costs nothing to build it. Everything you see 'works', so if anyone catches interest and wants to test it, let me know of any issues, I can PM them the link.
So again, this is mainly for the developers to have somewhere where they can have projects and tasks laid out for them. It can also be where a directory of all the new and older files can be downloaded from (anything can be put in including themes apps etc.), from one spot.
Hope someone can help .
-Graphics help
-Server support (What im on currently will not hold up if this got off the ground)
Thanks.
that looks good, seems like a good idea in concept just got to see what others think
http://androidclubhouse.com/
Thats just one of a few of these. It's not that you've got a bad idea, but you're not the first to try this.
If I were you, I'd try to contribute to an existing one.
I suppose but I have other ideas, more for the developers. The rest is extra basically.
Well, it's more than just questions.
I have the HD2 and I really enjoy it. Think it's a great piece of hardware. WM6.5 gets the job done for the most part, but I can understand some of the concerns with the OS. It's good to hear that you guys are already working on WM7 and the port to this phone!
Truth is, I put my coin in google's corner, so I'm hoping that Android finds its way into the HD2 via T Mobile.
I'm a bit tech savy, been involved with computer animation and can build computers as well. I thought I ask about the learning curve when it comes to development on PDA's such as mine. With the drop of Android, I flirted with the idea of learning code.
Is Android Linux based?
You guys hear anything about Android getting a port to this phone? I've done the google search and can only find the sprint version of HD2 with Android installed. That does nothing for TMobile customers.
I read up a bit on XDA and they appear legit. My concern is code being used for identity theft. Anyone have bad experiences with XDA and the software that is released here for share? Does the software under go some sort of QA before it's provided for download?
I have no problem with donations, trust is what earns my donations...fair enough, right?
Ultimately, I really like this phone and look forward to further enhancing it...I hear XDA is the place to be!
Thanks guys/gals.
FAQ's and sticky threads are your friend as is google.
Try reading abit, get a feel for the site.. Then ask..
Yes Winmo7 is being ported to the touch HD, though at the moment it's sluggish due to lack of graphical acceleration (and not really something i"m excited by since it doesn't have copy and paste and no multitasking. IMHO it's really more like an iphone/toy meant for none-techy people).
I don't expect an official update/ROM for the HD2 with android to ever be released by htc/tmobile. However, I would be surprised if one wasn't ported by xda from other devices (like nexus/evo 4g).
Yes, android is unix based. (develepment done in java (for upper stuff) and C (for lower stuff)).
Anything you download and install from xda you do so at your own risk. However, I would argue that the risk is minimal (almost none existent) as long as you follow directions and read posts. The only thing that can brick your phone is a failed radio/SPL update/change. Anything else can be cured by a hard reset.
(and what kable said)
As unfriendly as my reply may seem, for a "tech savvy" guy you asked several questions which would have been abundantly answered if you properly used the search tools of the forum, or if you simply browsed through the most active threads
ephestione said:
As unfriendly as my reply may seem, for a "tech savvy" guy you asked several questions which would have been abundantly answered if you properly used the search tools of the forum, or if you simply browsed through the most active threads
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Click to collapse
Thick skin...you grouches don't faze me
I've been through the site a bit, what can I say, life outside of the computer caught up and I got a little impatient!
I'm still reading through the forum. Have yet to find an answer to this question.
If I install Android on my HD2 (US), something goes wrong...will I be able to do a hard reset, or reinstall WM6.5?
I really think Android would benefit more out of this hardware. It seems as if everything Unix based always requires less resources and gets the job done!
I also would like to know how I can uninstall these game demos that are eating up space? Will this be a registry edit?
I feel as if Android would FLY on this device. WM6.5 is getting the job done, but it's to late for Microsoft with me. I've used Linux for some time and I just think it's better. Huge supporter of Linux!
Devils1stBorn said:
Thick skin...you grouches don't faze me
I've been through the site a bit, what can I say, life outside of the computer caught up and I got a little impatient!
I'm still reading through the forum. Have yet to find an answer to this question.
If I install Android on my HD2 (US), something goes wrong...will I be able to do a hard reset, or reinstall WM6.5?
I really think Android would benefit more out of this hardware. It seems as if everything Unix based always requires less resources and gets the job done!
I also would like to know how I can uninstall these game demos that are eating up space? Will this be a registry edit?
I feel as if Android would FLY on this device. WM6.5 is getting the job done, but it's to late for Microsoft with me. I've used Linux for some time and I just think it's better. Huge supporter of Linux!
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Click to collapse
oh, no grouches intended (and the "I have a life" excuse is old )
There's no way to install Android on the HD2, currently, that's why you couldn't find on these forums how to uninstall it from the hd2
Game demos were not included in my stock rom, if you're using a customized rom from a carrier, then either you find and delete the relevant files, if that's even possible, or you flash a clean custom rom from the rom dev forums which includes onyl the necessary software... but then again, I know all this info because I found it on the forums
ephestione said:
oh, no grouches intended (and the "I have a life" excuse is old )
There's no way to install Android on the HD2, currently, that's why you couldn't find on these forums how to uninstall it from the hd2
Game demos were not included in my stock rom, if you're using a customized rom from a carrier, then either you find and delete the relevant files, if that's even possible, or you flash a clean custom rom from the rom dev forums which includes onyl the necessary software... but then again, I know all this info because I found it on the forums
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Click to collapse
Look at you, browsing through forums and stuff. When I grow up, I wanna be just like you.
Thanks for the info. I do have a custom ROM from TMOUS. Has games like guitar hero, prince of persia...more bloated ware. I estimate about 30 mbps of used space.
Devils1stBorn said:
Look at you, browsing through forums and stuff. When I grow up, I wanna be just like you.
Thanks for the info. I do have a custom ROM from TMOUS. Has games like guitar hero, prince of persia...more bloated ware. I estimate about 30 mbps of used space.
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If they allow you to uninstall the games this is how you would go about it:
Go to the settings tab in Sense -> menu(lower right corner) -> all settings -> system -> remove programs.
Now the other option would be to flash your current rom to something faster and less bloated. T-Mobile US Rom Development Forum
I definitely recommend you read the Stickies before going about flashing your phone. If you have any questions don't hesitate to ask! Would suck if you brick your new HD2 just because you didn't! This is what these forums are for despite what some members might claim.
As for your other questions yes Android is Unix based and is probably going to be available for the HD2 sometime in the future(don't ask when). There's already a dual boot app so when Android becomes available switching between the two operating systems should be a breeze.
Welcome to the forums and enjoy your new phone!
Hi,
A bit irrrelevant to reply here, but I did not any other place. Have been following this forum for quite sometime. Been around with windows mobile app development for sometime. But what really interest me is when people from this forum tweaks Rom image or port to other harware. Here things look quite easy. Is it really easy? I saw one single person tweaking a ROM image and porting to different hardware?
Hope I have not offended anyone.
- Herojit
Toss3 said:
If they allow you to uninstall the games this is how you would go about it:
Go to the settings tab in Sense -> menu(lower right corner) -> all settings -> system -> remove programs.
Now the other option would be to flash your current rom to something faster and less bloated.
I definitely recommend you read the Stickies before going about flashing your phone. If you have any questions don't hesitate to ask! Would suck if you brick your new HD2 just because you didn't! This is what these forums are for despite what some members might claim.
As for your other questions yes Android is Unix based and is probably going to be available for the HD2 sometime in the future(don't ask when). There's already a dual boot app so when Android becomes available switching between the two operating systems should be a breeze.
Welcome to the forums and enjoy your new phone!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks. And no, it only allows me to uninstall apps I've installed after the initial setup. I've been through system files and the sorts and I can only find icons and other "blah" that's not the actual install directory. I show all the hidden files and still, can't find it.
Yeah, I'm looking forward to Android. Don't need the dual boot. Just a solid port with solid drivers.
Sorry everyone for the irrelevant post again.
I was hoping that someone will reply saying - "porting ROM is not a big deal, this is how you do it"
- Herojit
herojits said:
Sorry everyone for the irrelevant post again.
I was hoping that someone will reply saying - "porting ROM is not a big deal, this is how you do it"
- Herojit
Click to expand...
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Say what?
What's with your post?
OP. I'll port Android on HD2 for you for $50. You gotta send me your phone tho.
I am a tek savy guy too. I fix microwaves!
FloatHeavy said:
OP. I'll port Android on HD2 for you for $50. You gotta send me your phone tho.
I am a tek savy guy too. I fix microwaves!
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Epic fail.
one thing that has been alittle pain is how the albums are viewed. i created an album for videos, yet when i view I can't have a name of the file visable, just a thumbnail. that doesn't work well at all. works fine with pictures cuz what you see is what you. videos start with a black screen; becomes a guessing game. am i missing something?
Dear Fellow X2 Users,
I have been reading through all main sections (there are only 3 lol) of the X2 subforums and cannot help noticing how much more threads/sections and more importantly more development is being done on the older Xperia X1.
For me I see this as ironic that an older model is being tweaked more when internally they both have similar hardware.
I would summarize the X2 as a well designed device on the outside with a bad software system. We have gotten as far as getting rid of the junk that SE has put as "wrappers" to give it some eye-candy. We have made it usable and we have made the battery last longer. I am a programmer who believes that anything is possible if we use what is availabe to make amazing solutions.
Looking at windows mobile 7 although it promises fancy games and fancy social connectivity I do not think many professionals will consider those as useful. So I do not think the Xperia X2 is dead. I think it is like Knight Rider's car without Kit installed yet!
To the point (finally! I hear some of you say) why not make a team just like the htc developers have and work on some alternatives to minimal X2(skip default cabs) and bugged X2(default)? If we cannot cook roms, I say make some custom set of cabs that get the job done. I see so many good cabs in the forums: fm radios, handwriting recognition (kudos to fadi.b), the multifix cab, and an overclocking cab that boosts speed to 1000Mhz! (in some cases) and so many other I can't remember at the moment. We need to combine what we have into something better than the original X2 software.
I know I have not participated in these forums much, but believe me I have played around with the X2 just like the rest of you. I am asking for a concerted developmenteffort so we can solve the many issues mentioned by the X2 community.
Why not have development sections? A WinMo section is definitely a must.
Or an Android section like X1? A features request sticky inside these too would be good for everyone. We have to share some crucial information so a thread for this is important as well, e.g. keymappings, APIs, etc.
It is my hope that after reading this more people will try to approach the challenge of customizing the X2 in a more organized and successful way. Instead of deciding who should start, I think we should focus on how we ourselves can make it work!
To the Forum Mods: I have placed this in general section because imo it regards X2 as a whole and not specifically for ROM development or apps, rather a combination of both.
Totally agree with you!
I am agreed with you.
Please any programmer or developer contribute your specialist and skill here.
But,I am noobs with the software programmer...
I think we should make a new thread and see how many people would be willing
to put some money to offer the developer of the Hard-Slp.
i hope !!!!
Guys check this thread:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=716798
I also agree with you.
Please developers must take initiative to make x2 successfull.
im with you too guys, but i know that most developers prefer htc phones over other phones so you see many great stuff in htc forums ... so i thing a big motive for developers is to make abouny for hard spl and this will really attract developers ... sorry for my bad english
This is HTC hardware.
Second,i will donate or pay for any hardspl that would make this thing usable.
I do not have enough time to devote into "modding" ripping the software until i come out with an usable x2,so i would gladly pay to get something to put on this usefull 500$ phone.
I think that like me are many users that would give to say at least 10-20 euro for something to make this crap work better.
Kind regards to all and i'm still hoping to see something done for my X2.
mrqro said:
This is HTC hardware.
Second,i will donate or pay for any hardspl that would make this thing usable.
I do not have enough time to devote into "modding" ripping the software until i come out with an usable x2,so i would gladly pay to get something to put on this usefull 500$ phone.
I think that like me are many users that would give to say at least 10-20 euro for something to make this crap work better.
Kind regards to all and i'm still hoping to see something done for my X2.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It is not HTC hardware.
Hi hi! Sorry for falling off the edge of the internet platform! (was busy ).
Good news! Got myself a new X2 hehehe. Yes am serious about getting this from piece of mediocre communication device to at least X1 status!
K, I will summarize what is required to develop applications for the X2 and Windows Mobile phones in general:
1. Development Environment to make programs: Microsoft Visual Studio 2008 or Sharp Develop IDE. Search on Google to find more
2. HEX Editor to analyze/break apart data: No idea yet! Still searching for an updated one. Maybe Hex Workshop. Got an old version of that somewhere.
3. Registry Editor: CeRegistryEditor, Awesome registry editor for playing around with registry key settings. It uses ActiveSync and you change settings on your computer.
Will update this list when I find out or remember more items.
Good day to you all and please, don't give up!
hafirangi said:
Guys check this thread:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=716798
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Click to collapse
I have come across this some time ago and it is what I mentioned in my first post about a minimalist X2 (no unnecessary things). I have been there and although it is nice to have a phone that works I would like a phone that works AND looks and works beautiful!
Hope you see what I see now ^^. Not iPhone killer lol, just something better than what we have now.
i have a rooted fascinate, no im not posting where my 2.2 update is, it'll get here when it gets here, more that this is a call out to any devs and end users like myself that are tired of the same old rom styles and themes. Some roms are straight beautiful, like Thatdudebutch's super dark v1, and sos3 blackhole, whereas some just seem too stock-ish to me.
Where is the imagination? The creativity? I know devs are always working they're ass's off to bring us the next best port or rom based off insert other rom name here... but im ready for the dev that says hey i created this from scratch...
Maybe its just me, maybe im being a whiney ass lol, but i think its time devs started using what they think is cool, not what everyone else thinks is cool. If the enduser doesnt like the rom/theme, then boo ****in hoo and they can use something else.
Like i think SONOFSKYWALKER3's idea of build your own rom was a huge breakthrough in end user controlled customization, but its still using whats already available to us in either stock, or from the select few top 3 roms.
Please guys, (devs too) Show us what you can really do, make that rom that takes our breath away. We will love you for it...i will love you for it (metaphorically speaking of course lol)
Show us what you can do too
Sent from my SCH-I500 using XDA App
Progress is progress. The devs are porting gb to the Fascinate, that's a start in real customization. Just wait, the devs are already working hard. If your pushing them so hard, why don't you help? Seriously, its this disappointment in devs that ruins a devs commitment.
Rockin' DJ05, Minimal Icognito, Clocked at 1.3Ghz
Why must everything be taken so negatively? I read this first post and saw it as inspiration. I can see that the devs who make roms make it for the general public not for themselves, and I think thats why they make them so similar to each other, as thats what most people like. I feel that a dev isn't really ready to go out of his/her way to bust they're ass and make a rom that only they and a handful of others are going to use.
All in all, I think the OPer made a good point in "challenging" the devs to 'unleash' their creativity into the atmosphere and make somthing of their own that they are truely balls to the wall about.
Just my 2 cents.
TheSonicEmerald said:
Progress is progress. The devs are porting gb to the Fascinate, that's a start in real customization. Just wait, the devs are already working hard. If your pushing them so hard, why don't you help? Seriously, its this disappointment in devs that ruins a devs commitment.
Rockin' DJ05, Minimal Icognito, Clocked at 1.3Ghz
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree completely...remember the devs don't have to do what they do for us...if it was as simple as 1,2,3 then everyone would create their own roms for themselves...
Sent from my SCH-I500 using XDA App
The problem is, there's more worth in porting gingerbread and then porting other roms like cyangenmod which are easier to customize, than customizing samsung's firmware updates.
Rockin' DJ05, Minimal Icognito, Clocked at 1.3Ghz
jdkzombie said:
If the enduser doesnt like the rom/theme, then boo ****in hoo and they can use something else.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah.. so what was the point of your post again?
Not at all trying to be negative, but what exactly are you looking for?
Sent from my SCH-I500
you are all missing the point of my post
its not to bash devs, its not to berate anyone, nor was it to solicit "why dont you do it yourself" comments. But since thats how everyone is going to take it, i guess i need to clarify. What i meant by devs making what they think is cool is for them to use their imagination and make their roms and themes unique. Too many roms out there have been sourced from others...not that this is a bad thing as there are beautiful works of art available to all who wants to flash them..
These devs bust their ass to make these things for us and i respect that with all my being, and i appreciate all that they do. My hats off to all of them. But, again, wheres the creativity? Why must they be forced to use what is already in the eclair, froyo, and Gingerbread roms as their inspiration? These guys can take 0's and 1's and turn them into something beautiful that cant be taken seriously in just pictures. In the last 3 days i have flashed more things to my phone than i can hardly count, yes i have screwed my phone up and recovered, but im not here explaining without experiencing the world of flashing.
Why dont i help out....i'd love to yet im not programmer. I have zero idea how coding and programming and bitmapping works. Thats why we have developers. Im not here to bash anyone. I go to school currently to be a master mechanic, therefore computer programming is worlds different from installing and tuning a greddy turbo, or replacing a radiator, or even doing a tune up on (insert friends name here)'s car.
Im calling out to devs to stop being restrained by the limitations we as endusers have put on them, to indirectly force their hand in creating something they may not like but we will because otherwise people out there will gripe and complain. Devs, make what YOU want. There are limitless capabilities to be had in android because its so open. As developers you are the ones who provide for us when the manufacturers fail to hold up their word/rumor/promise/ etc, i dont want you to think that you have to make these for us, i want you to want to make these for us. Without you developers we would all be stuck to a basic android existence harkening to that of apple and its lockdown on whats what.
I wanna see creations from your darkest fantasies about android. I want to see the rom that gets you all hot and bothered. I want to see the theme that you got the inspiration for while you were driving around town or watching a movie. Dammit guys, make what you want to see android be, enough being the lambs, its time to be the lion. When phone manufacturers fail, where do we turn? To you devs. You. I cant even begin to describe how much respect i have for what you do for us.
I'll finish this off with something for the people who will no doubt bash me and flame because i need to do it myself, or im being to hard on them, or i'm just being a whiny little *****. boo hoo. get over it. Its my post, regarding my OPINION. I didnt force any of you to view it. to read it. to comment on it. the fact that you did shows that each one of you feels the same way i do. We all love android. We all love what the devs do. Why should we hold them back from what their imaginations can design? What gives us the right to do that....
Respect devs...always and forever from me....respect.
jdkzombie said:
Why dont i help out....i'd love to yet im not programmer. I have zero idea how coding and programming and bitmapping works. Thats why we have developers.
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Click to collapse
Well, you don't have to be a programmer to be "creative". In the design process all sorts of people are involved, and you could think up a concept. You could design a concept so great that a programmer would like at it and think it's great and decide to bring it to life. But asking people to be creative on your behalf, and using "i'm not a programmer" as an excuse to be a spectator is simply selfish I gotta say. Not trying to bash you too much, but simply saying there's many ways to be useful.
Jdkzombie is right...when linus developed the linux kernel he basically said....here it is, go forth and multiply...,now we have tons of different flavors and styles of linux. Android is awesome in its own right but we are only customizing something already there. (Devs....i definately mean no disrespect... ). The only thing i've seen so far that has bent that rule is MIUI. but that is too close to an iphone for me. I think what jdk is trying to say is...,where are the truely custom roms with wild and crazy user interfaces. I don't think jdk is asking the devs to stop what they are doing by no means...but maybe jdks asking why can't we all b more creative and come together as a community and come up with one ourselves with ideas from all of us...,and then find devs to take the plunge and make it happen. It all starts with an IDEA. So why not...,instead of bashing in this forum... ,let's start posting things we might want to be different in android and see what happens.
Think about it...,ubuntu linux- "your name here" android?
Thanks to all, devs, themers, and the users who have donated and contributed feedback over the years to make android what it is.
I may not post here much, but when i see something worth posting about i have to add MY opinion....and that's all it is.
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i think the op has a nice idea, but this probably isnt the phone to realize it on.
we have a handful of very talented devs, but really there time is mostly tied up in attempting to right the wrongs that samsung has done to us, by working on aosp/froyo/gb whatever.
the n1/ns community (or i9000) might be the guys you d want to bring your ideas to, as they have a global base of devs and their communities dwarf ours to the point of ridiculousness
See tho, one of the first lessons they teach you in most programming courses nowadays is "why reinvent the wheel?" It's there, it does it's job, why not build on top of that framework that already exists. This is the foundational principle of software engineering.
Think about it like this: you are in the woods and need to build a fire. You have plenty of dry wood, small kindling materials, and matches. Why would you go to the trouble of locating a striker stone and a piece of Flint to use to try and start the fire when you already have matches. You wouldn't unless you had no alternative or just liked to take the inefficient route for the sake of itself.
Another way to think of it is like this:
If I needed to drive from here in Mississippi to Nevada, I wouldn't build a car to drive if I already had one.
Devs are trying g to give us the most bang for our buck and that means using the tools and frameworks already in place.
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CrushD said:
Well, you don't have to be a programmer to be "creative". In the design process all sorts of people are involved, and you could think up a concept. You could design a concept so great that a programmer would like at it and think it's great and decide to bring it to life. But asking people to be creative on your behalf, and using "i'm not a programmer" as an excuse to be a spectator is simply selfish I gotta say. Not trying to bash you too much, but simply saying there's many ways to be useful.
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Why must you assume i havent already given my thoughts and ideas to several devs and "themers" on IRC. I have frequented that site for a good amount of time the past handful of days, both getting assistance with "de-bricking" my phone when i flash a no no to my device, and helping out who i can with their own problems.
It isnt just just me that should be "expected" to come up with new ideas here. I expect everyone to have something to contribute if you are going to post your comments (i use the word "your" in reference to everyone, not just anyone in particular)
You want a bit of my idea? I wanted to see a rom where the screens scroll vertically. Not horizontally like they "all" do. Where when you swipe the screen from left to right it open "your" favorite app. Swipe the screen from right to left and it opens the app try. I have also mentioned that a quick 3 tap on the home screen would zoom out showing a carousel of sorts that you can scroll through to select 1 of 9 home screens that can be filled to burst with your favorite widgets and apps. I dont have a preset color idea. Instead that we be afforded a color "wheel" to choose ourselves what collor basic things are. Be afforded to opportunity to make multiple themes like with ADW, that can installed "into" the rom. I assume everyone has seen the DROID commercials where the two robots select a few apps in the giant app "planet." That would be a sweet app tray wouldnt it? Would it be impossible? I dont know, since i have no idea how programming works. But im sure it would be quite the undertaking.
I would hope that this could be a place for anyone to post their ideas as well, not just mine. I also have this distinct feeling that as of my posts i will be held to a "imaginary" standard that it will be my obligation to post ideas and inspirations. But then therin lies my issue with roms today in general. These roms arent being made for me. If a developer makes anything like my idea, i want it to be something they want to see in android, not just because someone else said hey you develop roms, why dont you make this so i can have it.
This isnt/wasnt/never will be a thread to bash anyone including devs, themers, end users (other posters, but thats my point.) I wont bother to say im not going to be the only one. I dont have to post that. The sheer fact that you (the general population that bothers to read this thread) shows that wish there was more creativity, more originality,....hell....more of the "DEV" in his/her creation than anything else. It would make a developers rom/theme so much more their creation. So when someone says hey i have (for example) ThatDudeButch's new theme, its unique to HIM....the developer... and someone else that has a theme by Adiliyo (also for example) its going to be unique to HIM. Im really hoping all of you have the mental capacity (i used that term for lack of a better one, no offense intended for anyone) and the maturity level to understand that this is a challenge to all who design, develop, or theme, or even just dream to no longer be limited by the general public. Design whatever makes you get a stiffy if thats what it takes. What with the new 2.3 android os out, why should we hold the devs to make different copies of whats out. Why cant we encourage them to make the unthinkable....the un imagined...the roms that arent bound to a single line of influence.
If you (everyone and anyone) are going to post here simply to flame me for speaking my mind about what i would love to see roms and themes become, then perhaps you should consider keeping your comments to yourselves. BUT, this being a public forum, and i am no moderator, i cannot make anyone not post here, nor what they post about, so with that i will only ask that you not just post for the sake of singling out a line of any of my posts to make a snide comment on how its up to me/i need to design it/being too hard on devs ruining their commitment/etc etc. If we werent hard on engineers/developers/programmers in world-wide view considering the design of everything we use today, we wouldnt be in possession of the technological breakthroughs that we have now. We would all still have bag phones. Model A fords, if even that, we would still be riding horses....might i even be bold enough to state we wouldnt even be out of the stone age if it hadnt been for someone somewhere pushing those who build to do bigger and better things.
Please, use common sense people. Im simply issuing a challenge to devs/themers to not be constrained by our ideals. Again, to make what THEY want to make. Remember, they dont have to do this for us, so why cant they build what they want. And thats why i respect what they do.
agsded said:
"why reinvent the wheel?"
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Im not asking for a new wheel, only a more efficient one. Thats such an over-cliched term anyways and has no merit (in my view) If we never reinvented anything, we'd not be in the possession of these beauties of creation we have today. I bet someone told Henry Ford why reinvent the wheel when he said lets have a car that can be available to the common man. Do you think Ford would be the automotive supergiant they are now if he had followed that advice? Do you think we would have Windows OS, Mac, or any of the other available computing OS's that we have now would be available now if the designers had followed your sage advice?
Please realize, im not bashing you, any of you, im not going to stoop that low. We are all adults here, and even some teenagers, whom i hope utilize that powerful muscle between their ears before they use their fingers, so why must we criticize? Why cant we , as so eloquently put in an earlier post, come together as a community and share ideas.
Just saying.
Yeah, but see all those things you mentioned arent revolutionary leaps of accomplishment, but simply evolution of existing products... refinements..
Henry Ford simply took the concepts of mass production, the assembly line, and interchangeable parts, and applied them to the automotive field. He didn't invent something new, he "engineered" something better from what was already there. He made cars more affordable, available, and easier to repair.
Technology is no different... mechanical switches to electric switches to vacuum tubes to transistors to integrated circuits, they are just extensions of what's there.
We don't still use carburetors because fuel injection is more efficient, largely because it can meter the fuel more precisely, especially at idle. But..the first fuel injection setups were just electronic carburetors, with the old central port fuel injection systems... even the newer ones still do the same thing, just more precisely...
I'd love a smartphone that could read my thoughts and had a neural interface with zero lag. Is it coming.... who knows....is it a reinvention... no, just another step in between a previous one and the next.
Something to ponder.... at the core of all operating systems is basic math.
Add one value to another and put the result here. Stick the right combo of values in the right set of registers and a pixel lights up on the screen. That's the way machine language works...so all software is an evolution of ones and zeros...
A switch is on, 1 a switch is off, 0... so basically computers are just a big ginormous pile of light switches, lol..
Anyways.... I agree, I'd live to see some real neat stuff for android, but at some point, you'd have to throw out android to make it radically different, and then it would just be yet ANOTHER attempt at a mobile os to further fragment things....instead of moving forward, we'd be moving sideways....not as bad as moving backwards, but not progress either....
That's
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Just curious, but... How do you know devs aren't creating what they want? Why would they waste time building something that they didn't want to do?
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agsded said:
....instead of moving forward, we'd be moving sideways....not as bad as moving backwards, but not progress either....
That's
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I totally agree with you, but yet i also disagree. Which isnt a bad thing, at least we are agreeing to disagree i suppose lol But the point still stands. Why....why must we make do with what we have? Why not bring forth innovation? Is that not how progress is made? Im not looking for an overnight change in the way roms are designed. I only asking that the devs make it a challenge for themselves. Make something they havent done before. Im just winging this without black and white information, but how do we know that manufacturers dont look at these roms for their inspiration?
I'm only asking for that one ambitious dev who needs a challenge to strive for that next peg. The next rung on the ladder of progress. Yes Henry Ford didnt invent the automobile, but with his bringing the assembly line to his own needs he created something huge. Thats what im hoping devs will do for android. When we tire of out normal phone interfaces, to whom do we turn? Yes. thats right, these hard working devs. A vast majority of them create wonders with whats available to them. Others simply tweak and twist certain aspects to their own taste.
A phone that reads out thoughts with a neural interface with zero lag would indeed be a nice addition, but im certain 10 years down the road such a thing may come to be, but thats 10 years from now, if not more. Don't sell yourself short however, all ideas are welcome to me and to this thread. Its odd though, that with all the posts here i seem to be the only one who has put idea to page.
And to mr kevin gossett, How do we know they ARE. We dont. Its as simple as that. All that we can do is hope that there is a dev or 2 or even 3 out there that are willing to bring forth the new age of roms. We turn to these men and women because we are bored with our phones stock rom/theme, so why must the devs and us as end users together suffer the same style in the aftermarket themes and roms? Again not bashing devs here, just stating my opinion, that they need to make something that they love. there WILL be end users out there that will use their roms/themes. I still think some of you are missing my point with all of this, and instead strive to create some echelon of conflict purely for conflicts sake.
View my thread and posts as possible inspiration for the future. Not a bashing, or flaming of those who design for us. The DEVS create the roms, but the devs didnt design what they wanted to see, instead what we wanted to see. And i would love to see that reversed. The DEVS create what THEY want to see, and we use whatever we find to our tastes.
my head hurts
I think I understand what the OP is saying... But at the same time I kind of understand the other side of the fence. Coding is hard, and you must be very precise, and most of these guys are doing it for free. But I know what jdk is meaning....
I think he feels that the devs are limited in what they can create because they are branching off of other works and what people like. I think he wants to see what crazy ass stuff devs can come up with. he wants their creativities to explode all over his face. He wants to see what people can imagine and create. There's nothing wrong with that, as long as he understands the devs, that they have lives, they do this for free, and its hard work, which I think he does understand. I think he's just trying to inspire some folk.