hey guys, I'm a career developer with tons of experience in a lot of things except PocketPC. I want to play around a bit with PPC, but would like to hear about the development platforms, languages, etc. that you're using and what you like about them. I don't know anybody personally that's even remotely interested.
I'm currently using VIsualStudio2005/C# for my day job, and am pondering whether that's a good fit for PPC. A lot of documentation exists for both managed and native PPC C# code. Managed code is more like the stuff I do all day.
What I've found so far is that managed code requires runtimes to be installed (already there on WM6 i hear), there's a noticeable delay when starting a managed program, and a lot of functions are missing from the .NetCF.
I'd probably be writing business apps (database stuff, web back-end client/server, etc.) as well as hacks like today plugins, utility programs, etc.
Should I just start right out with native coding, or try and hack away with managed code. What's your opinion?
roboHaxx,
As i'm sure you're already aware of, choice of language on this environment really depends on the application you're designing.
I tend to use Visual Studio/C# for applications that I need to develop rapidly where I'm not too concerned about load times. The .NetCF libraries really helps in ensuring things get done quicker but there's a tradeoff in speed and functionality but not by too much thanks to all the new spec devices that are coming out.
If I'm developing something that doesnt need to get done faster, and I need quick loading times (like today plugins for example), I tend to stick with C (evc4).
Personally I stay away from .NET and all related stuff like it was toxic waste.
As kunz wrote it is too slow for PPC (at least for now) and if you want to use the .NET CF 2 any user with a device prier to WM 6 (which is the majority for at least another year) will have to install 5MB worth of run time.
But there are some very nice apps made with CF already out there like Hitchhiker so it defiantly has its place.
One problem though: if you want to develop system components like today plugins, keyboards (SIP) or control panel applets you will need a component written in C / C++. All those are DLLs that the system expects to export certain functions. This can not be done with managed code, and as far as I know not at all in C#.
One final recommendation: look up all threads started by Vijay555.
He wrote a pretty good summary of programing tools and options for WM devices somewhere on this forum.
Thanks for the replies. I'm think I'm starting to get a grip on this platform.
Sounds like the same principles as programming on a PC. For business apps (like in my day job), the managed, quick-to-market environments like C#, .net and CF2 prevail. But for performance, versatility and access to everything, C is the way to go. C++ if you must.
by the way, I thnk you can create DLLs in any Visual Studio language. I do it all the time with C# and VB. Now whether these DLLs can export the functions that are needed in PPC, I don't know the answer to that.
kunz, you said
If I'm developing something that doesnt need to get done faster, and I need quick loading times (like today plugins for example), I tend to stick with C (evc4).
pardon the dumb question but, what is evc4? A compiler I presume. That was going to be my next question. Which compilers do you like?
eVC is eMbedded Visual C++ 4.0 its a free C++ IDE for Windows Mobile from Microsoft.
It is almost identical to VS 6 (if you are familiar with it).
It won't except WM 5 or 6 SDKs, but any program create on it (with WM 2003 SDKs) will run on any Smartphone or Pocket PC starting with WM 2003 through WM 6.
For older versions you will need eVC 3.
The following pages should provide some useful information:
http://channel9.msdn.com/wiki/default.aspx/MobileDeveloper.HomePage
http://www.pocketpcdn.com/tools/index.html
Enjoy!
Hi,
I am programmer but I'm new in mobile development too.
I have an ideal to write a program that can speak the caller number instead of ringtone. The problem is that I don't know how to get the receiving call events.
Can we solve this situation with .net compact framework?
Anyone have documents to share?
Thanks
Hi guys. I see a lot of "finger friendly" contact managers apps theese days.
Which API are you using ? I'm planning to work on it for sms reading and any help would be great.
Hi,
Personally, for contact manager, I'm working on ... my own framework, but that's mostly to allow decent performance and animation effects.
Basically it's a composite pattern, every control is based on LightControl base class which provide basic interraction and drawing.
The drawback of this approach is that text input control are rather complex to do, the big advantage is that layout, drawing are free are control aren't tight in a specific shape.
What are your requirements?
Hi, I'm working on .NET 2005 (usually VB but I also have knowledges of C) and I'm developing for a Prophet and a Trinity
yes.. but what are your requirement regarding the framework? what do you want to do that classic winforms won't provide you?
I am interested in dabbling a little in programming for my Kaiser. I have programming experience, mainly php / mysql, though I have done some C and lots of scripting in my time. My biggest project so far though was an open source google maps mod to put on your website - thousands of lines of php / js code, mysql backend and AJAX tieing it together, some graphics routines etc, so I am no drooling n00b when it comes to coding.
How easy is it to develop basic stuff in WM?
I have access to MSDN, so I can get Visual Studio (2005 for sure, maybe later versions), so I think I have access to the apps I would need. I just ordered some books to help me along, but was wondering if I would likely face a steep learning curve.
All the stuff I want to do is today screen plugins - was thinking of having a bash at writing my own quick contacts plugin - *very* basic - just a vertically scrolling list of names over a transparent PNG button with maybe photos from the address book - I want it to be able to scroll by vertical gesture within an ultimatelaunch tab - is this likely to be quite easy and quite a good "first app" to program?
I was also looking at writing a lite repacement for phoneweaver as the only feature I use is to turn on BT when it detects power but no activesync (ie auto turn on BlueTooth when I am in the car and the device is cradled) - maybe a hack to force the keyboard backlight on in the same situation.
I have bought:
Microsoft® Visual C#® 2005 Step by Step (Microsoft)
Microsoft® Mobile Development Handbook [Paperback] by A. Wigley; Daniel... (Microsoft)
Comments / suggestions?
I would also be very interested in a thread or good reference on how to start to program app for mobile gadgets. Actually i'm a Delphi coder, and i would like to implement some applications on WM platform, but when i search over internet there's plenty of information, but no usefull information with "real-life" recomendations.
depend on the platform and language one wish to use really
there is c#.net, vb.net c++.net
c++ miniMFC, c++ PureWin32 sdk
oldVB
...
here are some other posts asking pretty much the same thing from the forum
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=225405&highlight=programming
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=237932&highlight=programming
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=241670&highlight=programming
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=245426&highlight=programming
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=228043&highlight=programming
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=317913&highlight=programming
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=302548&highlight=programming
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=327164&highlight=programming
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=305926&highlight=programming
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=336251&highlight=programming
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=226412&highlight=programming
codeguru.com got examples of various windows mobile programs too today items and such
about delphi i dont know if anybody got some info i would say borlands site
Thanks rud. I was aware of various other posts, but my question was more of a "How steep is the learning curve?" rather than "How do you do it?".
There was also an element of "How do you do it?" insofar as there seem to be better or worse ways of going about various kinds of app (eg today apps with gesture support) which I am finding a bit of a minefield, but I feel that the new post was valid because I am giving an indication of my experience level and what I am trying to acheive - none of the posts you listed cover the combination of stuff I am trying to do. Reqs like pulling from outlook db and allowing gesture scrolling in a today plugin, I dunno, I may waste ages with C#, for example, only to realise it is a breeze with C++... I also note that a google search for wm programming gesture scroll today screen currently ranks this very thread #5. By tomorrow that'll be a googlewhack then.
Yes, there are various posts about how to get started, but I think maybe a sticky would be in order with a bit of info on the various paths - the vb/c++/c# options are quite bewildering - stuff like
levenum said:
Your question is mainly a matter of personal preference.
Here is my opinion on C++ vs. C#:
C++ advantages:
- Native code is faster than .NET
- Easier access to Win32 APIs
- Ability to write system components like keyboards and today plugins.
C# advantages:
- Saves on coding time
- Allows use of many .NET CF components to quickly accomplish complex tasks.
Please note that I am bias. I hate .NET and want nothing to o with it. Specially on mobile devices that do not have the processing power to spare for the .NET overhead.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
is really useful, maybe if it were expanded upon, info such as for this route you need visual studio, etc, etc it would make a really good sticky for the dev section.
evilc said:
I am interested in dabbling a little in programming for my Kaiser. I have programming experience, mainly php / mysql, though I have done some C and lots of scripting in my time. My biggest project so far though was an open source google maps mod to put on your website - thousands of lines of php / js code, mysql backend and AJAX tieing it together, some graphics routines etc, so I am no drooling n00b when it comes to coding.
How easy is it to develop basic stuff in WM?
I have access to MSDN, so I can get Visual Studio (2005 for sure, maybe later versions), so I think I have access to the apps I would need. I just ordered some books to help me along, but was wondering if I would likely face a steep learning curve.
All the stuff I want to do is today screen plugins - was thinking of having a bash at writing my own quick contacts plugin - *very* basic - just a vertically scrolling list of names over a transparent PNG button with maybe photos from the address book - I want it to be able to scroll by vertical gesture within an ultimatelaunch tab - is this likely to be quite easy and quite a good "first app" to program?
I was also looking at writing a lite repacement for phoneweaver as the only feature I use is to turn on BT when it detects power but no activesync (ie auto turn on BlueTooth when I am in the car and the device is cradled) - maybe a hack to force the keyboard backlight on in the same situation.
I have bought:
Microsoft® Visual C#® 2005 Step by Step (Microsoft)
Microsoft® Mobile Development Handbook [Paperback] by A. Wigley; Daniel... (Microsoft)
Comments / suggestions?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hey!
Congrats on getting your hands on with Windows Mobile...
The easiest way is to download Visual Studio 2005(2008 You have it on MSDN) - and create a new application with it.
It's sooo easy if you know your object oriented programming, as long as you want to create ordinary "office" applications... But if you want to do more advanced things(like creating a today-plugin) you need to go over to c++(even though you can download a .net home-plugin-container which acts like a "loader" for your plugin written in c++) - and also, if you want to create good GUIs, I think you are better off with c++... But then again, I think you need a bit more effort in learning c++ then using c#...
Hope this helps...
Still slogging my way thru this...
I got hold of an MSDN disc, first off I installed visual studio 6 - bad move.
Had to uninstall before trying to install VS 2005, now I think it has screwed something up, every time I try and create a "Smart Device Win32" project, I get a "Project creation failed" error. I may have to re-GHOST my OS to get rid of it
So much time just finding out what apps I need and what options to choose to start a project...
I found http://channel9.msdn.com/wiki/default.aspx/MobileDeveloper.HomePage which seems helpful
Thanks for responses!
Evilc, you link of msdn is excellent point, many thanks!
I have also just started programming in C++ ..i dnt have any knowledge of any type of codes..i learned every thing frm MSDN libraries ( i have many many of them caz i have VS 2006 VS 2005 and VS 2008 )..i recommend you to work with C++ because it uses less system resources and is fast..hope this helps..check out my Kitchen coded in C++ ( link in signature )
Yeah, I think C++ is definately more what I am looking for from what I have learned thus far.
Re-Ghosted OS - totally fresh XP SP2, installed Visual Studio 2005, still the same error. GRRR!
Visual C++ --> Smart Device --> Win32 Smart Device Project == "Project Creation Failed"
Other Languages --> Visual C# --> Smart Device --> Windows CE 5.0 --> Device Application == Project created OK.
Some posts I have found on the net say it is an IE7 issue, I may try uninstalling that or flashing back to an OS image with IE6 only, but this is really winding me up and taking a *lot* of my time...
I uninstalled IE7 and the problem went away. Woohoo!!
starting programming windows mobile
hello
1. see my web site.
2. see my book recommendations, especially the 'programming windows ce' by douglas boling. It has an example for many things and a today sample too. Most is based on visual c++ 3.0/4.0. Embedded Visual C 4 can be loaded free of charge at ms.
regards
josef
Nice site, thanks.
The windows mobile 6 sdk actually has a today screen sample, along with samples of most of the things I need to do.
neofix said:
It's sooo easy if you know your object oriented programming, as long as you want to create ordinary "office" applications... But if you want to do more advanced things(like creating a today-plugin) you need to go over to c++(even though you can download a .net home-plugin-container which acts like a "loader" for your plugin written in c++) - and also, if you want to create good GUIs, I think you are better off with c++... But then again, I think you need a bit more effort in learning c++ then using c#...
Hope this helps...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Are we using the same language?? Cos this (C++ Win32 for Mobile Devices) is by far and above the most difficult programming language to get into that I have ever tried. Yes, worse than ASM.
Trying to code an app that prints "Hello World" has taken me over 5 hours with no success yet - most languages I have a go at it's 5 minutes.
From http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms901121.aspx :
Code:
int DrawText(
HDC hDC,
LPCTSTR lpString,
int nCount,
LPRECT lpRect,
UNIT uFormat
);
It gives a brief description of what the parameters are, but absolutely no examples and no explanation of what all the parameters do or how to initialize them, so even browsing an example is no use to me.
u can simply try
MessageBox::Show(" your message ");
ather90 said:
u can simply try
MessageBox::Show(" your message ");
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Isn't that .NET ?
I thought the consensus was that Native Win32 or whatever it is called was the better way to go?
This is part of the problem. I cannot even work out what to put in a search engine to pull out info on the right "flavour" of C and for the pocketpc. It's *so* bewildering.
Hello evilc.
First I noticed you have some trouble with VS 2005. It probably won't be easy now, but if you ever get to format your machine again don't install it (unless you absolutely need some other features).
For C / C++ programming for WM device I strongly recommend eVC 4 as it is much lighter and responds quicker. (It's a free download as well)
Second, though you can program for WM in C# and VB .NET which are both .NET Object based languages and are probably much closer in form to PHP and Java then C, you can not write system components such as today plugins in those languages.
You need native code so C / C++ is the only way to go.
(Actually, there is a trick to combine C# and C++ DLLs to create a today plugin where C# will do the main stuff, but its pretty complicated)
What you need is to learn basic Win32 programming and using the windows API. They are almost identical for Windows Mobile and Desktop windows versions so any book on Win32 should teach you the basics.
(Personally I started with MS book on MFC and studio 6 but I would not recommend it)
Finally:
I would gladly explain the parameters of DrawText but I am not quite clear on how much familiarity you have with the Win32 mechanics, since the languages you are used to obscure them unlike C which gives you extra power but also makes you work much harder to get anything done.
Do you know how to handle messages, and how windows manages all abjects using handles? Any familiarity with GDI?
If not, it will be pretty difficult to explain.
levenum said:
Hello evilc.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hello! <waves>
First I noticed you have some trouble with VS 2005. It probably won't be easy now, but if you ever get to format your machine again don't install it (unless you absolutely need some other features).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I tracked down the problem when I got home and installed on my desktop. When doing it on the laptop, whilst installing SP1 for studio 2005, I had hit "Not Now" to a reboot request and it had said installation failed. When I installed SP1 on my desktop and said "Yes" to the reboot request, the problem went away, so I guess it was fixed in SP1 but the installer is a bit picky.
For C / C++ programming for WM device I strongly recommend eVC 4 as it is much lighter and responds quicker. (It's a free download as well)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wish I had that advice before as I wasted a day messing around with an MSDN CD, trying to work out what to install and what not. So does the eVC 4 download include an IDE? If not, what do you use?
Second, though you can program for WM in C# and VB .NET which are both .NET Object based languages and are probably much closer in form to PHP and Java then C, you can not write system components such as today plugins in those languages.
You need native code so C / C++ is the only way to go.
(Actually, there is a trick to combine C# and C++ DLLs to create a today plugin where C# will do the main stuff, but its pretty complicated)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You don't have to tell me twice to avoid the bloatware ****e
What you need is to learn basic Win32 programming and using the windows API. They are almost identical for Windows Mobile and Desktop windows versions so any book on Win32 should teach you the basics.
(Personally I started with MS book on MFC and studio 6 but I would not recommend it)
Finally:
I would gladly explain the parameters of DrawText but I am not quite clear on how much familiarity you have with the Win32 mechanics, since the languages you are used to obscure them unlike C which gives you extra power but also makes you work much harder to get anything done.
Do you know how to handle messages, and how windows manages all abjects using handles? Any familiarity with GDI?
If not, it will be pretty difficult to explain.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No GDI Experience. I take it this would be the library of choice for drawing the screen of a today screen app? Stuff like the HTC Home clock or the new Face Contacts - they would likely use Native C++ and GDI? Doesnt strike me as something you would do with a form.
Also, anyone got the skinny on vertically scrolling by click-and-drag inside a today screen app? Just a case of enabling a parameter? Has to be coded manually? Best way to do it smoothly? If you have seen the Conduits Pocket Player 3.x browse list - how it "eases in" and "eases out" at the ends of the list, has inertia so you can "flick" down the list, the alphabetical bar instead of the regular scroll bar - is that all coded manually or is there an api or something that can help?
Thanks for the help!
I just noticed your apps in your sig - checked out LVM time - noticed there was source - wooohoo! I generally pick these things up by example.
All that code just for a (configurable) clock on one line - wow. Great though, a really good example of a today app - minimal enough in functions so it is easier to suss how it all slots together, but full featured enough (implimented example of an options screen - yay!) to show how to do various things.
And Gnu as well! Nice, this will be the basis of my first test project too I think - at least now I have a framework to test out what I want to do and how to go about it without having to work out how to code the basis of the application.
I thank you from the bottom of my heart sir.
I tried to build it in VS2005, but I got a
fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'todaycmn.h': No such file or directory
A quick google search showed todaycmn.h was part of the SDK, I found the file, dropped it into the headers section of the project, but no joy. I will probs just try eVC.
Oh, and having developed a today plugin, maybe you can answer this one:
As far as I can tell so far, debugging isn't very easy with a today app - something to do with the fact that the dll is not releasable? Is this an issue I will come up against? I hope its not a case of "reinstalling" the app each time you want to test... I was thinking maybe along the lines of have it as a normal app for debugging, then make it a today plugin when you want to build to use it?
I dunno, probably trying to run before I can walk, my books shoulda been here today, oh well. Sorry for all the questions...
@evilc:
Are you using standard Win32 or MFC?
You may want to try using MFC since you get the flexibility of native development but with some nice class libraries that make your life easier.
As for click and drag behavior, that is usually implemented by handling the WM_LBUTTONDOWN, WM_LBUTTONUP and WM_MOUSEMOVE.
When you get wm_lbuttondown you set a flag that says the user is dragging. You use wm_mousemove to update the stylus position as long as this flag is set, then you unset it on wm_lbuttonup.
That's the basic idea anyway. Someone made a post about gesture recognition in this forum a few weeks ago with sample code. You should see if you can find that.
Managed Today Screen plugins
See:
http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms839442.aspx
for some background on the concept.
And:
http://www.christec.co.nz/blog/archives/279
Outlines what I think is a very ingenius technique for managed today screen plugins.
For those of you that want an easy way to make a today screen app in c#. Chris did all the C++ work for you.
Also I forgot to mention that the SDK samples cover all most every application type you can think of. Most of the good ones are Win32 though.
Also, keep in mind that you can use P/Invoke from your C# apps to call native APIs. So don't let people tell you you need to use C++ just because you can access more api's. I will say that you should use C++ for games, or other apps that require high speed or advanced GUI's (it is VERY hard to do interesting gui techniques with C# and interop, trust me).
And finally, I would highly recommend using the most recent version of visual studio you can get (especially if you're using vista), unless your machine can't handle a newer version. I say so because visual studio gets more and more powerful as an editor with each new iteration and I personally can't go back after I get used to the new features they introduce. And the new versions are almost necessary if you're going to do .net development.
I am currently writing an application for my WM6.1 device (HTC TouchHD), and wondered if anyone had come across a site, or if someone could point me in the right direction for finding a nice way of writing 'finger friendly' applications. By finger friendly, i mean being able to scroll with my fingers and so on. Or if there are any open source applications that I can use as a reference?
I don't particularly want to say what application I'm writing just in case it falls to pieces, but rest assured once it's written it will be put up on here!
Thanks,
evorgevol
I have just found this page which does me for scrolling parts of my application. The main thing I'm having issues with is that I want the main menu interface to resemble windows 7 media center, see here for a video of what effect I'm trying to achieve.
I know it's quite complicated, and I'm not the best programmer in the world, but hopefully I should be able to do it??
Any help will be appreciated. Thanks,
evorgevol
If I understand, you're trying to create an UI with a scrolling list useable with fingers.
Each item in the list, once selected, let appears different choices about this item (IE : a "Appointment" item in the list, when you select it, you have the next appointment displayed....). It that right ?
Doesn't it look like the new WM6.5 today plugin ? If that's you're idea, I'm 100% on your side to develop a today plugin looking like these menus (WM6.5 / WM7 MC) !
(In fact, I'm already searching if somebody could develop something like this : http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=3375478)
The one I'm doing is not necessarily for a today page, more for my own application, tho it should be able to be easily used in any other application once the code has been written. I just need a push in the right direction for me to be able to write the code in the first place. I'm also deliberating what format to write my application in, and which ones are available. I will only be supporting from WM6 onwards, tho it could potentially be backwards compatible with 5. Ideal would be silverlight being able to be used, but unfortunately that hasnt been released for mobile yet (it would mean that my application should run on any platform that supports Silverlight).
Try iContact. I suppose the code is open. Also try PockeTwit from google code. Install these apps and if that is the effect you want to achieve, I suggest you grab the code and understand it (that's what I would do if I was in your position)