Related
If you read my posts you'll see that I'm truly a proponent of working thro issues before lambasting a new product, and in fact you'll see that most issues raised are perfectly solvable with PocketPlus 3's close button and a few more apps. However, I'm now down to a few unresolved issues, and quite frankly I HAVE to tell the world NOT to buy this device until these issues are solved - probably by HTC. The bottom line is that there are not yet enough users to provide the critical mass to solve these issues, and one desperaely checks all the JJ forums daily only to find so few new posts it looks like it'll be many many months before the device is usable. What makes matters worse is that HTC don't seem to give a damn - we don't see them on the forums helping us early adopters AT ALL, their own forums do not even have a JJ/universal section - and you get fewer replies on there than you do here! It's shocking!:
1) BT unreliable: Turns itself off. Even when on, a call can come in and you cannot answer. Highly unpredictable so U generally miss the call whilst driving using your knees to steer, battling to open the JJ with one hand, and pumping your BT button with the other. I've battled with Gtec and Jabra BT devices - this IS a JJ issue!
2) GPRS/UMTS not always-on: The whole principle of GPRS was always-on, and UMTS brought us always-on broadband. Instead we have a situation where every app that wants to go on-line establishes a connection, does its thing, and drops the carrier when finishes. The best way to explain is how dial-up used to feel; too much hassle to bother booking those movie tickets on-line, yet once you had always-on broadband you didn't EVER queue at the moveis again! Broadband and wireless has always been more about always-on than about the access. Anton Tomov's GPRS Keep Alive does not solve this on the JJ.
3) No decent PIM: This is a 3-function convergent device; phone, on-line and PIM. The built-in PIM is SO awfully BAD that it defies comprehension. Psion Series 3's were way better than this! Yes, 1998 P3's! On WM2003 devices one merely used PI, AF or PB - or any other apps for that matter. Now none work on the JJ! NONE! You heard me - not a single @#$#@%one! The PI dev/CEO blames the JJ blank screens on a ROM bug and is not prepared to put any more effort into it. AF guys are not even starting to promise beta dates yet - and when they do they'll probably battle with the JJ too. All other calendar apps are blank or unusably slow (ie 2 mins to populate the screen).
4) Notification queue management: We ARE getting dups again! Pocket Mechanic is the only app that removes the sddeamon dup, and it does not have a feature to scan and clean up at midnight. This is going to build up to be an issue over time; we'll hit alarm failures, memory and speed issues, and general applicaiton problems all as per our old XDA's. For non-techie geeks, this alone is a reason to run away screaming!
5) No backup: OMG OMG OMG! This is such an appauling situation, that it is beyond my comprehension that M$ didn't run out to rectify it within 1 day of releasing WM5 over FOUR months ago!!!!! Now we have a device that we CANNOT back up. 1 hard reset and you start over. If you're faint-hearted you're simply not going to test new apps. If ur and early-adopter, then get ready for some hard resets (I've done 3 to date). Non-techie-hardcore-geeks will NOT NOT NOT tolerate this. Not for a single nano-second!
I am not a developer/experts on the PPC, but I have been on the bleading edge for some time. I had a perfectly smooth XDA, then XDAII from the day each came out, and I have used forums like this to solve ALL my problems. I also put hours and hours into it. ie I am not a housewife complaining cos I can;t find a menu item - the above issues are serious and a challenge for anyone with less capability than Buzz.
1) Can't help you there
2) Get the GPRS Always on application that can be found here if you search
3) 2 words for you. Pocket Informant
4) Can't believe this is still an issue
5) Use Sprite backup (best) or use the Backup feature of ACTIVESYNC.
NO NO NO!!
2) Anton Tomov's "GPRS always on" does not work fo this
3) PI fails on JJ within 2 days; blank calendar views which Alex (PI CEO) says is a ROM bug. Honestly if PI worked I would forgive ALL the rest; When it does work PI in VGA is AWESOME.
4) Queue dups definite - but I do concede that it may be a result of PocketPlus301, aeRepeatAlarms, TotalOmmander, or spb GPRS monitor. Havn't had time 2 test 1x1
5) Sprite themselves say it does not work on wm5, and you can find out the hard way by trying to restore. Ditto for sunnysoft. I agree that AS managed contacts etc, BUT I want to backup a state so I can debug apps
<submitted from my JJ - ClubiMate forums do NOT work from a JJ!!>
3, 4 and 5 are Windows Mobile 5 issues, not i-mate issues, so it's a little unfair IMO to reject the JasJar based on just issues 1 and 2. All WM5 devices have these problems. Two of those issues might be solved in future device releases by inlcuding Pocket Informant and a backup util (once one compatible with WM5 is released - there is none yet), but for now, there's not much that can be done while we wait for solutions.
Also, I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for MS to fix the duplicates issues. This has been a problem for a long time now. The JasJar is a great device, but we have to accept the fact that it will be a while before we can start using it (and other WM5 devices) to the level we had gotten used to with WM 2003 and 2003 SE.
You buy a new device AND a new OS.
A little patience please.
But the GPRS always on (MSN) is also urgent for me.
Huib
:?:
I am just about to purchase a new PDA. I am deciding between the Wizard (o2 xda mini s) and Universal (o2 xda exec).
The universal seems to have everything I want, but I am scared by the posts here.
So I have one basic question for you guys:
Do you think:
1. There are basic hardware problems which can't be resolved until there is a new version
2. It is just a buggy software/firmware issue, and this will be fixed by the current and future firmware upgrades ?
If it is 2, I will not mind buying it ?
thx
Only a personal viewpoint, but my view is that most of the problems are being caused by software that claims to support WM5.0 - but the reality is that although they do support it, not all software is as robust as it should be. I have installed and uninstalled a whole range of applications (purchased and trial versions) - and found that many cause lock-ups etc. After trial and error I have settled on a PIM (Pocket Informant) and a closer/launcher (GSPocketMagic) that work reliably, do not cause my Universal to lock up and do not seem to have any effect on system speed. Others I have tried may cause lock-ups or at least really slow the system performance down significantly. Not sure if others have found the same - just what I have found by trial and error. Hope it helps
that is a very interesting point. I was very influenced by this article:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/viewtopic.php?t=35177
Also it seems if you read aximsite re: dell x51v, that Wm5 is not as compatable with wm2003se software as people think.
What also seems to be adding to the issues is that the service providers (o2, orange, etc.) are NOT aware of this and are installing applications as standard (e.g. battery meter) which actually cause lags in answering phone calls as they are not correctly for Wm5.
I guess the question is now, does the jasajr work fine when all bad the sowftare is uninstalled, and is it possible to uninstall monitoring software that service providers have installed ?
I just bought mine on Monday... great piece of kit!
If you are just going to use the software that came with it you shouldn't have any problems at all (i haven't anyway) all is working well.
I think as soon as WM2005 becomes more established and more developers cater for it the glitches will go, like NH said, it's more 3rd party software that's causing the problems
hey budo, which service provider did you buy from ?
how is surfing the internet using 3g (the real reason I want to buy it, as I will keep my normal mobile for phone calls)
rgds
My position is clear. WM5 itself has bugs and does things you don't expect. Here are just four examples of WM5 probelms which are nothing to do with third-party apps:
- If the Camera app is left on it heats-up the devices as it drains the battery
- On downloading email over GPRS/3G the Messaging app can freeze
- Media stored on the SD card when used by apps when the "suspend" option is used can cause the app to fail when you re-start your device
- WM5 can report it has insufficient memory even when it has 20MB of RAM free
- Memory leakage means you need to reset the device daily
- If you do reset it is possible to loose settings and data if this data has not been written back to the persistent storage from the real RAM
O2, and they give you 3 options for "install type" so if you want all the bells and whistles you can switch it on, or if you want just the basic software you can switch that on lol...
I have to sort my internet out for 3G, needs to be config for some reason.... but from what i have seen from GPRS it's top dog esp with sites that cater for mobile internet....
this is not good jah, i am put off again. although this could be fixed with a firmware update if htc provide that kind of thing. Anyone know their record on this for other devices ?
hey budo. If 3g is turned on, it should use it automatically for connection, even if it says gprs. that is normally how all my 3g phones have worked when 'bluetoothed' with a pda.
Colonel
I assume you have seen this thread: http://forum.xda-developers.com/viewtopic.php?t=33871
I am not trying to put you off but just want to make sure you have a balanced perspective. I have an Exec and all I can say is that it is "high maintenance" like all M$ based systems
thanks, i'll read.
I'm not sure I totaly agree with you about M$ stuff. I had a dell x50v and currently have an orange m500, and they are perfectly reliable and low mainentance. It does seem however that the hardware people have rushed out wm5 systems without really doing their research and I am sure M$ is responsible for a load of bugs. Roll on WM5se ......
colonel said:
hey budo, which service provider did you buy from ?
how is surfing the internet using 3g (the real reason I want to buy it, as I will keep my normal mobile for phone calls)
rgds
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Click to collapse
Sux. This pixel doubling issue means that you don;t get anywhwere near the estate you expected. U can switch to Oz VGA but that costs a 5 min reset either way - easier to get to a PC! The other issue is that the IE browser is SO bad that 3G surfing feels like GPRS - in fact I used to fire up my laptop just to check that I had a good 3G signal in the area and was indeed surfing on UMTS!! Issue is that browser renders slowly, and cache's so badly that it actually reloads the whole friggin page when u go 'back'. I could have my laptop working on a 3G card right alongside my JJ on 3G, type in xda-developers and press 'go', and my laptop would give me the screen in seconds, whilst my JJ would take a full minute!! We're taking over 10x slower. Also, many sites do not render in PIE - blank drop boxes etc. In SA that's movie booking gone, not a SINGLE TV guide site works, and altho my private bank works, my company bank does not. However, terminal services in VGA is awesome...
craigiecraigie4
I don't really have problem with 3G and PIE. I use T-mobile and o2 in the UK and the rendering etc is reasonable given that I did not expect laptop like performance on my Exec. The Exec in corp mode with GSPMagic+ is very quick.
In fact, it's a 400 bucks piece of utterly unreliable, useless crap.
Since I got my device back from "repair", it's been a mixed experience. Most things work, some make me cringe in despair.
Today is a bad-TyTN day and I'm really, really <expletive/>.
After the repair, I thought my "No GSM" problems were gone. But today, the first time I really couldn't do without it, it crashed a couple of minutes after I unplugged it from the USB-ActiveSync 4.5 link and told me again "No GSM".
And of course, the result being:
- All POP3 accounts lost, and now I lost all emails and have to use different account names to set them up again
- Network connections credentials lost, even built-in. No I can, again, connected by other means, go figure out how to set these up or,
- finally, hard-reset the device, which is a pain in the neck because I have no out-of-the-box backup.
I'm not even running any third-party software on the device for fear of introducing non-linearities. I did not even install the brand-new TomTom 6, also since nobody seems to be able to sell a sufficiently large MicroSD card at this time.
Who's to blame for my bad experience?
Did I do something wrong? Setting the lock-timeout to 2 hours instead of 12, so it locked during the ActiveSync session?
Did HTC screw up so it would reset some "protected storage" when the GSM card is not detected for some magical reason?
Does Windows Mobile 5.0 AKU2 just have too much bugs to be reliable?
Does my provider E-Plus Germany suck for confusing the device with poor, unreliable UMTS coverage and internet connection problems?
It's a mixture of all these things, I guess. There are too many moving parts, most of which aren't sufficiently documented by Microsoft, or kept up-to-date software-wise by HTC and the service providers.
Examples:
- Messaging that unrecoverably screws up my POP3 accounts and there is no documentation in the SDK about the setup to fix it myself.
- The worthless MediaPlayer, that abandons it's meta-data when the storage card is released.
- The HTC phone software that at times wouldn't let me hang up on occasions, or doesn't start, or keeps using a bad UMTS connection even if GPRS is available and good.
I thought the TyTN would make a great every-day device for a phone and a software development platform for new-class applications.
So far, it's been one of the greatest time-wasters I've ever acquired.
Just like any other toy.
Useless crap.
Not had anything quite as bad as that. Never had to hard reset due to irreversible problem. But, yes quite a few soft resets and in a way although I want to disagree with you I think the device is cutting edge and could easily have been held back a year to iron out some problems. However as you say some of these problems are down to WM and telecoms providers. For business I would not get one of these but probably something with fewer features but high reliability.
For trying out the new or new combinations of features I would still buy a TyTn in preference to anything similar and yes a large part of this is about experimentation and an acceptance that if this were not cutting edge in some ways then reliability would not be acceptable. As it is though my business use is low on TyTn having "Fun" and experimenting is high. My rant is about releasing the device with obvious hardware irritations, the software.. well that can always be upgraded.
Mike
HB_TyTN said:
Does Windows Mobile 5.0 AKU2 just have too much bugs to be reliable?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Surely not - the problems you've listed (particularly the stale e-mail accounts) are not MS-related problems but because of stale WinCE database entries.
Next time DO run SKTools 3 to clean up the mail databases instead of hard resetting your device.
Furthermore, it's a very bad a idea to send a device in for service that still has data on it. You should have wiped it before sending anyway...
If you view a PPC Phone as a primary data storage/communications center, then you're in for a disappointment. On the other hand, if you use it as an extension of your personal computer, then not only will you have a very productive device but you'll keep your sanity.
I've always used this strategy since my first sync experience on a Nokia 6210 six-years ago. Appointments and contacts all easily synced to my phone. Replaced that with grey t68. Then came the PocketLOOX 600 (touted as first convergence device - nice idea, poor execution). I tolerated the buggy loox for 18-months before trading UP to an h4150 running wm2003se. Great device. Kept a t610 for phone, ppc as outlook back-up.
Arrived in Taiwan for an extended business trip end of July -- immediately picked up the local version CHT9000 (aka Dopod 838pro). Through this forum, someone graciously made available the first English language ROM -- a tad buggy, but later upgraded to my current ROM (dopod 1.23) and in everyway it has exceeded my expectations. I take it to the US and it my t-mobile account with gprs keeps me connected. Recently spent two weeks in Korea and all over China -- again, UMTS available most places, GPRS/EDGE filled in the blanks. Mobile carriers everywhere will love HTC for bringing this device to the masses.
Don't have to, but it's prudent to sync the device at least once a day. In the event you lose the device, it's stolen, or you're forced to hard reset, because it's just a 'copy' of your outlook system, it's no big loss.
All that said -- I'd recommend this device to anyone with at least some technical savvy. Without this, they could never appreciate truly the first quad-band gsm/tri-band UMTS, BT2.0, WiFi G, PPC Phone with both a useable keyboard AND a real scroll wheel and would be better off owning a Chocolate or some other Nokia/SonyEricsson 'fashion accessory'.
Cheers
Menneisyys said:
Surely not - the problems you've listed (particularly the stale e-mail accounts) are not MS-related problems but because of stale WinCE database entries.
Next time DO run SKTools 3 to clean up the mail databases instead of hard resetting your device.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why do I have to use 3rd-party tools to fix such a problem? Where is the KB article about it, either on Microsoft's or HTC's or on my provider's website?
goestoeleven said:
Furthermore, it's a very bad a idea to send a device in for service that still has data on it. You should have wiped it before sending anyway...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Before repair, my device had the "Does not reliably detect SIM card" problem, that clearly discouraged me to put any data on it.
As requested by my service provider, I sent in the device hard-reset, without SIMcard, SDcard, battery, or stylus. I even removed the screen protector.
So all that's lost now (EMail accounts, passwords, WiFi, and what not), has been set completely new AFTER repair.
aquanaut88 said:
If you view a PPC Phone as a primary data storage/communications center, then you're in for a disappointment. On the other hand, if you use it as an extension of your personal computer, then not only will you have a very productive device but you'll keep your sanity.
[...]
Don't have to, but it's prudent to sync the device at least once a day. In the event you lose the device, it's stolen, or you're forced to hard reset, because it's just a 'copy' of your outlook system, it's no big loss.
All that said -- I'd recommend this device to anyone with at least some technical savvy. Without this, they could never appreciate truly the first quad-band gsm/tri-band UMTS, BT2.0, WiFi G, PPC Phone with both a useable keyboard AND a real scroll wheel and would be better off owning a Chocolate or some other Nokia/SonyEricsson 'fashion accessory'.
Cheers
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I appreciated the great feature list of the TyTN by putting more than 400 bucks on the table and commited to an additional data plan as well as another 24 months of mediocre network coverage and service.
As I said, I planned to use it for developing pocket pc applications and little helpers to make my life easier.
I use it as an extension to my laptop, it is connected to it via USB most of the time, to charge and sync.
But feel like I could demand that it reliably keeps my data until I sync again.
If I have to always carry my laptop around to get that reliability, then it would have been way cheaper to go with a UMTS modem card instead.
If something is only useful to technologically savvy geeks, without reliability for the Joe Public every-day user, then I consider it a toy. Maybe a great, feature-overbearing, remarkably innovative toy, but nevertheless, something to play with, not to rely on.
Unfortunately, beside the technical problems that could be overcome by updates and repairs, it's a systematic issue that support is split across Microsoft, HTC and my provider.
As I said, it's terrible hard to figure out if a problem is caused by my fault, inappropriate settings, too little or too much tweaking, mediocre network coverage, hardware faults or software problems.
I wouldn't mind hard-resetting the device every day, if there was something resembling a simple backup _out-of-the-box_.
By backup I mean settings, including personalization, network connections, email accounts, sms/mms, custom ringtones, etc.
And that's exactly what I'm into finding to buy or writing myself.
Finally, again
Hang, bang, gone. "No GSM" again.
This time not recovering.
The new thing this time: My service provider E-Plus doesn't accept it for repair.
I should quit my day job so I can fully concentrate on the struggle with this heap of crap.
HB_TyTN said:
In fact, it's a 400 bucks piece of utterly unreliable, useless crap.
Since I got my device back from "repair", it's been a mixed experience. Most things work, some make me cringe in despair.
Today is a bad-TyTN day and I'm really, really <expletive/>.
After the repair, I thought my "No GSM" problems were gone. But today, the first time I really couldn't do without it, it crashed a couple of minutes after I unplugged it from the USB-ActiveSync 4.5 link and told me again "No GSM".
And of course, the result being:
- All POP3 accounts lost, and now I lost all emails and have to use different account names to set them up again
- Network connections credentials lost, even built-in. No I can, again, connected by other means, go figure out how to set these up or,
- finally, hard-reset the device, which is a pain in the neck because I have no out-of-the-box backup.
I'm not even running any third-party software on the device for fear of introducing non-linearities. I did not even install the brand-new TomTom 6, also since nobody seems to be able to sell a sufficiently large MicroSD card at this time.
Who's to blame for my bad experience?
Did I do something wrong? Setting the lock-timeout to 2 hours instead of 12, so it locked during the ActiveSync session?
Did HTC screw up so it would reset some "protected storage" when the GSM card is not detected for some magical reason?
Does Windows Mobile 5.0 AKU2 just have too much bugs to be reliable?
Does my provider E-Plus Germany suck for confusing the device with poor, unreliable UMTS coverage and internet connection problems?
It's a mixture of all these things, I guess. There are too many moving parts, most of which aren't sufficiently documented by Microsoft, or kept up-to-date software-wise by HTC and the service providers.
Examples:
- Messaging that unrecoverably screws up my POP3 accounts and there is no documentation in the SDK about the setup to fix it myself.
- The worthless MediaPlayer, that abandons it's meta-data when the storage card is released.
- The HTC phone software that at times wouldn't let me hang up on occasions, or doesn't start, or keeps using a bad UMTS connection even if GPRS is available and good.
I thought the TyTN would make a great every-day device for a phone and a software development platform for new-class applications.
So far, it's been one of the greatest time-wasters I've ever acquired.
Just like any other toy.
Useless crap.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is the first BIG complaint i have heard about the product.. Second, wow, what did you do to it that it had to end-up in repairs? (fiddler??) Third, if it does give this much problems, then there was something wrong with it from the start, but you didnt take it back an did not insist on a swop?
Look at this app, install it and see if your gsm still is disabled?
Also check your settings again to make sure all is set to the right ones! Else you got a big problem or just dono how the thing works(just saying this coz 80% of all problems are caused by the user him/herself!! See it everyday then they blame me!).. RTFM
Or it could be a virus!! hahah That would be funny!!
OH, your rom version!! Wow dude!! Update the thing!! ROM Version: 1.18.257.2; ROM Date: 05/30/06
http://wiki.xda-developers.com/index.php?pagename=Hermes_Upgrades
HB_TyTN said:
Hang, bang, gone. "No GSM" again.
This time not recovering.
The new thing this time: My service provider E-Plus doesn't accept it for repair.
I should quit my day job so I can fully concentrate on the struggle with this heap of crap.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just as testing purpose: superCID it and try to flash with HTC South African 1.35 Rom
The ROM update worked for me. It took a lot of work to get mine running how it should after that, 3rd party software, reg settings, and I must admit it runs beautifully now. But when it came out of the box it was bloody awful, wouldn't turn on, take 5 seconds to hang up, freeze etc.
One word ... iPhone, hmm.
Hallo HB_TyTN
Like you I am on the E-Plus network (at Hannover), and use a O2-branded Tytn, same firmware. However, I never experienced problems like you, and like us others got used to occasional soft reset requirements, mainly related to the 3rd party Today items I use.
Now that HTC is in the retail market by itself it is certainly not wise to buy their wares over service providers (unless like you one buys on contract), since HTC for machines bought with them will go to greater efforts to repair or exchange machines. Eplus will not repair your Tytn, but usually just send you another "refurbished" one from the same batch they got from HTC.
For the moment you seem stuck with E-Plus, and you can attempt to pressure them into proper service according to German law. Another possibility is in fact to try the South African ROM, and see if it improves your machine. Third option is to beg HTC for direct repair, maybe with confirmation from E-Plus that they cannot help you, and send the machine directly to a HTC repair centre. If you send in your machine, please mail a copy of your attached letter to Fred Liu, HTC COO office, 23 Hsin Hua Rd., Taoyuan 330, Taiwan, R. O. C.
He is the COO of HTC and the top boss of HTC Europe. Coming to Germany soon, he will not want to make enemies here ))
Now after 10 hours it booted just fine and I'm just rapiconfigging back my email accounts and networks.
Reestablishing Bluetooth pairings and TomTom actvation is still manual.
I'm not fiddling. First time it failed right out-of-the-box. After repair #1 I only installed SKTools and TomTom Navigator 6.
ROM upgrade is no option, E-Plus/Brightpoint have not published an update. So there would be no way back.
Last repair the device wasn't switched (same S/N, IMEI, ROM version), so I guess they couldn't repro the problem (that would also explain their refusal to repair it again).
Next time I'll rush to an E-Plus shop as soon as it happens.
lol < well this sucks. cant use less than 10chars.. > lol
My first experiences with the TyTn also were disappointing. It took me weeks to get it more or less useable, and even now some things are not as convenient as they were on my Symbian phone. Here are the things that bother me (some are solved by 3rd party applications, others are not):
General:
- onscreen keyboard pops up even when one is using the hardware keyboard
- no way to backup all the settings
- often hard to navigate when not wanting to use the stylus
- only one language for text entry (word completion and transcriber)
- no data counter (gprs traffic)
- wordcompletion intervenes too much (when I type a Dutch word "wel", after typing the space after the word it changes it to we'll, no way to prevent this)
- wordcompletion only shows one possible next word (no way to scroll between different candidates)
- any setting that is slightly more advanced or deviates from tradition is either hard to set or impossible
Messaging:
- no way to specify the imap-root folder
- not possible to switch SMTP servers (even the from field cannot be chosen when sending a mail, nor can mails be moved from one outbox to another) (other mail clients I tried have problems with my VPN)
- cumbersome downloading (headers only: one has to open a mail and then choose to download it, then click send/receive; why not download it when this is chosen? or even when it is openend?)
- many notifications for sms (sent notification in messaging client, sent notification from network, receipt notification) when sending messages (and one cannot mark them as "read" from the todayscreen)
- applications are not very well integrated (e.g. file explorer cannot send a file via bluetooth)
Calendar:
- always opens on day view, would like to change this to month view (but is not possible)
- day view should be scrolled down to show the start of the day (e.g. 8.00 at the top of the screen), now I have to scroll from 00.00 down before I can see stuff)
- cumbersome entry of time (esp. when entering times that deviate from the time slots)
Phone:
- no support for different call profiles (where a profile is essentially a call filter)
- when one contact has multiple numbers, the phone application only shows the last used one
Network:
- when you add a VPN server, then delete it, you can't add one with the same name (even though it has been deleted)
- wifi starts detecting all networks, and does not necessarily start with the networks one has been connected to in the past
Bluetooth:
- limited profiles
- sometimes counterintuitive
ActiveSync:
- sees the device as new every now and then (causing it to say it conflicts); I have to delete the device on my PC and let it find it all over again
Programs folder:
- is alphabetically, would be nice if one could order this to his own liking
Alarm:
- no snooze function
- unnatural way of entering time and repeat options
File explorer
- no way to view extensions of files
I've learned to live with some of these problems, but I would have expected Windows mobile to be a more mature system. I had to choose a WM5 device (so I new I had to compromise), due to the fact that I wanted to run some specific application (PocketFMS), but didn't anticipate I had to compensate this much. (of course, no of my issues is purely HTC related, but will be present on all WM5 devices)
In total, I personally consider Symbian (Series 60) to be more efficient, better customisable (one is less forced to do things one way) and (never thought I'd say this) more stable.
Jörg
hmmm.... the fact that I'm listening to mannheim steamroller over A2DP at Las Vegas airport while typing this reply on my TyTN is evidence of my disagreement with the OP. This device has done incredibly well at CES. unbelievable functionality in tough tradeshow conditions. i'm really happy with this little gizmo!
Nevermind, I really love it, too. Otherwise I wouldn't spend so much time with it.
But posting in a stable network environment (I'm on home WLAN right now) is not really a proof.
Try this when moving in a crowded area with weak 3G coverage, say on the subway. Add sensitive hardware and a mediocre provider and things go south.
It's unfortunate your having so many of these problems - my Hermes has been excellent! I haven't had any of the issues you listed. In fact, mine has only locked up once, and that was today (and I use it religiously). I've had it hard reset on it's own, but that was caused by Hackmaster. You should definitely try a ROM upgrade, if you haven't already.
At CES, I was using my TyTN on Cingular's network with 110,000 other geeks (kudos to Cingular btw... coverage was great!). Even so, my device was handing off between GSM and UMTS constantly and Cingular experienced at least one major data network meltdown that I could detect. Perhaps it was the combination of 1.35 & the 1.20 radio that made mine work so well.
The worst problem I had was A2DP, but after the first day I found out it was because so many other people had bluetooth going that there were simply not enough available frequencies to support A2DP's high bandwidth demands. All the vendors were bemoaning the fact that their A2DP stuff "just wasn't working right"....
After hearing the news of O2 Atom Life being planned for release, I, like most of the users out there who bought it was restlessly waiting for its release.
Sadly, after getting my hand on the device, I am faced with the following problems (WM5 and WM6).
1. Video Call - The vtcall application requires 10mb of free ram to start. When in use, it only uses about 2-3mb of ram (confirmed by O2 support). The problem is, the average free ram of most users is around 8-10mb. When receiving video call, vtcall fails to start up.
2. Slow performance while scribing - Writing using the stylus is misery with this device. Each strokes appeared slowly and you are unable to write naturely. Instead you have to write very slowly, letter by letter. The excuse given by O2 Support is because of it using the rom as temporary memory for the touch screen and also because of the rom size (1gb). I was told that it is so because they can't foresee what will be effected when they decided to put in 1gb of rom. For me, it seems like it has a design flaw. I wonder if I can return the product and get back my money as this is the main reason why I regret getting Atom Life.
1. Windows Live - All features of Windows Live will try to connect via 3G/GPRS even though the device is already connected to the internet via wifi. Anyway, can't blame this on O2 as it seems to be the problem with WM6 but if they did a good testing, they should have known this and as Microsoft to fix it.
2. O2 Calendar - When tapped, it always open the native Calendar application even though the default calendar application has been set to other application (Pocket Informant, Pocket Agenda, ect).
3. O2 Filler - The filler has problem calculating the free space left with certain today plugins like the native Calendar plugin and Spb Mobile Shell (with auto-hide enabled).
4. O2 Connect - It has only 3 items. Support, Collection Points and News. Where's the updates, tips and ect as stated in www.seeo2.com? The O2 Connect at the site is also worthless. The service is far worse than the O2 Connect service for O2 Xda II mini. Further more, the News item has problem. After refreshing it, about 80% of the time, the content is corrupted. Can only see the first news followed by damaged text display. Anyway, the today plugin can display the news correctly.
5. Camera Templates (Photo Frame mode) - The template is placed in the hidden partition of the rom and users are stuck with only 5 templates. Unlike O2 Xda II mini, users can place additional templates in the My Documents\Templates folder and they are automatically accessible in the camera. Upon contacting O2 support, they asked me to look for 3rd party software to solve it.
6. Notification Queue - The WLMSchedule has mutiple duplication. Need to remove them or the duplicated events will grow in number over time. Again, this is more to Microsoft but as stated above, O2 should have known about it.
I have experienced the same problem but the most irritating for me is the problem with Video calling. How I wish the 1G ROM can share memory with the exhausted RAM like before with Windows 2003.
thanks for the info....how about flame???it hv the same problem??
Here an update from O2:
Prob 1:
After several phone conversation with O2, it is decided that O2 can't do anything with this. The 10mb start-up requirement for VTCall is for performance sake (used for buffer). O2 confirmed that they are aware that Atom Life does not have enough main memory after (extensive use) before it is released to the market.
From my point of view, the designers should be sacked. If they knew about it, why not just increase the main memory to 128mb? Sigh, too many fools working at O2.
...
1. I don't know why but I consistently get 12-15MB of free RAM. Like right now, I have 16MB. I can only seem to get less than 10MB when I play Windows Media Player in the background.
2. I use transcriber and I agree that it's quite slow but compared to the old way of writing on my Palm then it's like light speed.
Now the other part
1 and 6. I don't blame a device (or the maker) for Microsoft bugs. I mean seriously, look how many people go out to get Vista even though it's full of bugs. I got my Atom Life with WM6 and never even touched Windows Live (and don't understand what you mean by WLMSchedule <-- ignorance is bliss ). If I don't like a built-in function, I'll try to get 3rd-party stuff for it or not use it at all.
2. I use SPB Diary and it works with Pocket Informant.
3. After a long process of finding out what is "O2 Filler", I finally figure out what it is. I don't install O2 Themes so it doesn't show up and my SPB Diary is pretty good at calculating the correct space.
4. You actually installed O2 Connect? I heard it was responsible for the random turning on of Wifi so I did not even install it. Got this after intensive research on internet.
5. Ok, this is a problem and the O2 people should do something about it.
So ya, I still blame the O2 people for not getting more RAM (more RAM is always better) and the terrible quality of their softwares. But overall, I love my Atom Life. Just wanna provide a more balanced viewpoint for those interested in buying the Atom Life.
Part 1: It's O2 fault as the VTCall application is choosen by O2 for video call.
Part 2: If you have used Magician before (O2 Xda II mini), you'll be amazed that the old device outperform O2 Atom Live. When you scribe on it, it feels like you are using a real pen.
Part 3 & 4: Heh he, I don't use it actually... just pointing out that O2 are not planning very well with the applications they are providing
Part 5: The great part is, the O2 support ask me to buy a 3rd part application for it... like it does exists. Made me think that the support team is stupid or living in a remote area somewhere in.... dunno where.
Part 6: You can disable the damn WM Live thing using Memmaid... but since I'm using Messenger and Hotmail... sigh...
I have had my Atom Life for about 3 months now. I upgraded it to the latest WM6 ROM found on the O2 web site. My previous device was an I-Mate Jam.
I don't use a lot of the advanced features in the Atom Life, because of my current Telco provider (T-Mobile USA). So, I'm only using Edge, not 3G or 3.5G. I'm also not using VTCall or the FM radio. I do use WiFi and this seems to work well, although not as convenient as being on a PC. I do use Skype on occasion (under WiFi) and that has worked well too. I have a stereo blutooth earphone by Motorola that works great. I'm checking email (POP3) and going to the Internet, no problem. I bought Spb Mobile Shell for launching application and that's probably the smartest buy I've ever made for my device. I almost never use the stylus for most standard operations, thanks to this great application. I also use Microsoft Voice Command. With this, no need to ever look at your screen or fumble with searching for contacts: making phone calls and launching applications are a cinch. I also have a bunch of other applications (various databases, MetrO, PDF reader), all working flawlessly. The camera is adequate. It's never going to replace a real camera, but for quick shots it's actually pretty decent. I don't use my PDA as a major input device. Therefore, I mostly use the build-in keyboard for typing things in and that's fine for me. I do travel extensively overseas and the Atom Life has worked flawlessly on any network it's been connected to.
The only major issue I have with the Atom Life. It doesn't notify me when I have a voicemail waiting for me. Technical support was useless. They basically told me: "sorry, we don't support the Atom Life in the US". I do get notification for missed calls and SMS, but not for voicemail. I have searched the Internet every which way and found no solution, except for a recommendation to change my Radio ROM (I have no clue on how to do this and I don't want to brick my phone). If anyone has any ideas on how to solve this problem, let me know. I will be forever grateful!!
Otherwise, I am fairly pleased with the Atom life, as you may have guessed.
Radio Upgrading
frenchygeek said:
I have had my Atom Life for about 3 months now. I upgraded it to the latest WM6 ROM found on the O2 web site. My previous device was an I-Mate Jam.
I don't use a lot of the advanced features in the Atom Life, because of my current Telco provider (T-Mobile USA). So, I'm only using Edge, not 3G or 3.5G. I'm also not using VTCall or the FM radio. I do use WiFi and this seems to work well, although not as convenient as being on a PC. I do use Skype on occasion (under WiFi) and that has worked well too. I have a stereo blutooth earphone by Motorola that works great. I'm checking email (POP3) and going to the Internet, no problem. I bought Spb Mobile Shell for launching application and that's probably the smartest buy I've ever made for my device. I almost never use the stylus for most standard operations, thanks to this great application. I also use Microsoft Voice Command. With this, no need to ever look at your screen or fumble with searching for contacts: making phone calls and launching applications are a cinch. I also have a bunch of other applications (various databases, MetrO, PDF reader), all working flawlessly. The camera is adequate. It's never going to replace a real camera, but for quick shots it's actually pretty decent. I don't use my PDA as a major input device. Therefore, I mostly use the build-in keyboard for typing things in and that's fine for me. I do travel extensively overseas and the Atom Life has worked flawlessly on any network it's been connected to.
The only major issue I have with the Atom Life. It doesn't notify me when I have a voicemail waiting for me. Technical support was useless. They basically told me: "sorry, we don't support the Atom Life in the US". I do get notification for missed calls and SMS, but not for voicemail. I have searched the Internet every which way and found no solution, except for a recommendation to change my Radio ROM (I have no clue on how to do this and I don't want to brick my phone). If anyone has any ideas on how to solve this problem, let me know. I will be forever grateful!!
Otherwise, I am fairly pleased with the Atom life, as you may have guessed.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You can find how to upgrade the radio from the link below:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=549804&page=100
hello,
first of all let me thank you for a brilliant forum. I was looking for a forum with loads of information on pocket pc phones and i guess i found you guys.
Okay I'm a total newbie and I need help with choosing between three phones and i'm extremely confused as to what i should choose.
I'm with orange and they are offering me:-
1. NOKIA N95 (Not the black edition, but does come with 8gb) - Has all the features, but i've heard these are very buggy and slow
2. TYTN II - Has all the features that i need, except the keypad is eithier virtual or i have to pull out the keyboard to make calls, which is a NO NO
3. TOUCH DUAL - Now this phone is the dream i was wishing for..i.e there is a keypad which exists, allowing me to quickly make calls, but then it has NO GPS and NO WI-FI .
My problem is that all phones have their advantages and disadvantages and therefore make it difficult for me to choose. Here is what i'm looking for:-
1. The phone must have a hard keypad (Not a keyboard or virtual keypad) to make immediate calls.
2. GPS is not immediately needed, but i hope that i can add it in the near future
3. WI-FI again is not urgently needed, but i hope that it can be added later in future
4. The phone software must be very adaptable software wise
5. Must be unlockable to all networks
6. Needs to have a decent battery life
I especially want to know about the Touch Dual..can this give me what i need?
2 & 3, u'd better assume a "no" in touch dual forever. if finally a brilliant brain solves it, it's a bonus. better not assume you can get it in "near future". meanwhile, you may have interest on this thread
4. Windows Mobile is an open platform that allows installation of the millions of programs in the market. meanwhile, pls be prepared that "soft reset" is unavoidable for the M$ product, just like reboot upon "blue screen" in win98.
5. see this
6. it's very dependent on personal habit. e.g. how many phone calls a day? how much data connection? how much online/offline content browsing? how much game playing? the word "decent" is very subjective as well. in general, if you work in office for most of time, it's not a worry at all, as you can easily recharge your WM devices from a pc using a standard usb cable.
hope this helps
many thanks pp18 your reply has been very helpful.
I use the phone 90% of the time to make outgoing calls..so battery life is fairly important
Regarding GPS...for the time being, can Touch dual work with a GPS receiver?
if you're very worried about the battery life, you can always bring a spare battery with you. can't share much on this, as it's always easy for me to find a usb cable to charge up my device even i forget to do it the night before.
re gps, yes you can use an external gps module and let it communicate with touch dual through bluetooth. you may have interest on this.
hi pp18.
I rang orange yesterday and after having a long chat with them, they backed off the n95 and tytn II as they said that the person who offered the mobiles made a mistake. I only had a choice between a nokia 6500 classic/slide or the Touch Dual II. Hope i made the right choice as i chose the Touch Dual II.
I thank you for helping me with all these questions and definately have interest in using an external gps receiver.
As a total newbie and after reading your links, can you clarify the following questions i have please? :-
1. If i use the recommended GPS receiver with the t-dual, is it as accurate and speedy & reliable as a general tomtom device would be? What i'm trying to say is that are there any known issues with GPS receivers and a phone? For example does the phone regularly lose signal and can't tell where i'm going.
2. Can i install tomtom software on it?
3. From your experience, has the guy who charges £5 to unlock this mobile, messed up anyone's phone?
4. I live in an urban area...Is it true that this phone has serious signal issues?
5. Lastly i have heard that the orange installed software is slow, drains the battery and unreliable. How difficult is it for a novice like myself to install a new rom that is faster and better than orange? Also what is the best/reliable rom going at the moment?
Many thanks for your very helpful info.
regards
newbiefone
in general, bluetooth communication between an external gps module and a WM device shouldn't be a problem. for details and specific to your area, i suggest you ask in the Niki Accessories forum so that your neighbours can offer better help.
for flashing cooked rom, i personally not recommend it to newbies, as the worst case for a wrong operation is "brick" the device. and, a device with cooked rom will void the warranty as well. you'd better find a friend to help. for choice of rom, suggest you read the great articles in the Niki Upgrading forum.
i had pretty much the same options as you. and i went with the touch dual. it kind of puts a dampner on it not having gps or wifi inbuilt like the other 2, but wifi isnt really that big of a deal, internet surfing on a phone screen is pretty worthless - if need be i just use gprs, its fine for my needs (i bearly ever used wifi on my old tornado). i already had a bluetooth gps reciver so gps isnt a problem, i just leave it in my car.
the touch dual is by far the most attractive out of the 3. the only thing i dislike is the camera, its not as good as the n95s. and i'd love tv out like the n95 has. i wouldnt want a tytn ii though. they're bulky and heavy and there is no need for all the extra weight just for gps and wifi.
thanks pp18 and ducamie.
From what you guys have told me so far, it sounds like i've made the right choice. Would you kindly help me with my remaining questions:-
2. Can i install tomtom software on it?
3. From your experience, has the guy who charges £5 to unlock this mobile, messed up anyone's phone?
4. I live in an urban area...Is it true that this phone has serious signal issues?
Thanks So Much!!!
tomtom installs great.. version 6 is pretty awesome with touch screen.
if you need it unlocking, i'd deffinatley use olipro's simunlock, its £5, its very safe, and your only other option is to pay £20 at imei check. with olipro's it cid unlocks your phone too. i wish he'd brought it out sooner.
ive never had problems with signal, its always been fine, if youre living in an urban area i wouldnt worry about it.
thanks so much ducamie!!! i look forward to seeing my phone.
Btw, do you have an orange dual? If so, have you updated it with another rom or have you left it as it is?
hey. yeah, got an orange branded niki.
i flashed tom_codon's rom after flashing the hardspl to get rid of the orange stuff on the phone more than anything but its a good rom generally, i'd upgrade it if i were you (once youre familiar with what youre doing ofcourse). might aswell.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=364335