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Can anyone else confirm this problem. When I press the stylus to the screen abd hold it there momentarily, the CPU usage for gwes.exe jumps from about 0.5% to about 33%-35%. This causes major lag in stylus based games, and draws extra battery power in any application with heavy stylus usage. My old HP Ipaq hx4700 never had this problem, and since my Tytn was qvga, it would have been hard to tell if it did this or not (its gone now, so I can't test it)since it doesn't have to push the 4 times higher resolution of VGA.
It was bad enough, when I found out(I really did know something was up, though) I was saundering around at 100mhz to 312mhz nearly 100% of the time, due to the SUPER CONSERVATIVE built-in auto scaler. Now I feel like I got completely duped on my purchase of an advertised 624mhz cpu. My hx4700 blows the doors off the Advantage in terms of processor speed. They both have a 624mhz CPU!
If you don't have a CPU monitor there is a program in attachment. Install it, run in background and just press to the screen for more then 2 sec. and watch CPU utilization level.
Well, I never really find U1000 to be anything faster than any WM5 device I owned before. Even with my O2 IIs felt much snappier than U1000. It's an inherited problem with WM5 though since WM6 would make U1000 way a lot responsive.
jlingo said:
Well, I never really find U1000 to be anything faster than any WM5 device I owned before. Even with my O2 IIs felt much snappier than U1000. It's an inherited problem with WM5 though since WM6 would make U1000 way a lot responsive.
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you should never compare QVGA device to VGA device, the power needed for VGA is a lot higher, and if you use PHM, you can have CPU speed set to 728, and it will run a lot faster and smoother.
wu5262 said:
you should never compare QVGA device to VGA device, the power needed for VGA is a lot higher, and if you use PHM, you can have CPU speed set to 728, and it will run a lot faster and smoother.
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Hey Wu,
I tried to test 728 but my my U1000 froze. Yours were ok with 728Mhz specs?
This is a pretty serious problem. Does anyone else see the gwes.exe process jump in CPU usage from a reasonable 0.5% to a 33%-35% increase when holding the stylus to the screen? This makes using the stylus a intensive CPU hog. Being a touchscreen device, that should be a bad thing!
Could you imagine your home PC doing this every time you move or click the mouse?
mysticbluebmw said:
This is a pretty serious problem. Does anyone else see the gwes.exe process jump in CPU usage from a reasonable 0.5% to a 33%-35% increase when holding the stylus to the screen? This makes using the stylus a intensive CPU hog. Being a touchscreen device, that should be a bad thing!
Could you imagine your home PC doing this every time you move or click the mouse?
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Yes It happened to me as well. touching the screen does increase the CPU usage up to 40%.
jlingo said:
Yes It happened to me as well. touching the screen does increase the CPU usage up to 40%.
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How about using the supplied keyboard? Meaning when you press or hold the key?
jlingo said:
Hey Wu,
I tried to test 728 but my my U1000 froze. Yours were ok with 728Mhz specs?
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Click to collapse
yes, mine one works ok with 728, my machine is flying at the moment, just trying to figure out how much more battery cost this is.
cayotte said:
How about using the supplied keyboard? Meaning when you press or hold the key?
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I tryed it, and its not signifigant. Weird thing is letter keys only jump an extra few percent of CPU usage, while for me, the space bar jumps and extra 9%-10% of CPU usage.
I emailed HTC, and explained the problem on Friday, so I should probably hear back from them in the next couple of days. Though I'm sure it will be, I hope it's not a useless, canned response. I tried playing a couple of different games today (skyforce, meltdown). Both run fine until I touch the screen, and then frame rate drops to about 1/3 of the original rate.
I tried overclocking to 728mhz, and while it doesn't freeze up, it doesn't help the perceived speed of the Athena either. I can tell NO difference. Though, battery draw was about 2.5-3.0 times larger than when leaving it on it's built-in auto scaler. An hour of heavy usage brought me down from 100% to 60%, and again with no noticeable difference in speed. Way too unacceptable for me!
I have same behavior
CPU utilization jumps from 3% to 50% or 60% when pressing on the screen with the stylet. Now I understand why there is skiping in games that use the stylet. Did anyone reported this to HTC??
BigDede said:
I have same behavior
CPU utilization jumps from 3% to 50% or 60% when pressing on the screen with the stylet. Now I understand why there is skiping in games that use the stylet. Did anyone reported this to HTC??
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This has been a problem with most WM5+ HTC devices I've been reporting them for over a year, in several articles of mine.
It seems they still haven't even tried to fix it.
Menneisyys said:
This has been a problem with most WM5+ HTC devices I've been reporting them for over a year, in several articles of mine.
It seems they still haven't even tried to fix it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Can you pls post the adress you have used to report so I spam them a bit as well
Im using WM6 and I have the problem ...
Although there are a few threads on the X1 battery, none have addressed the real issue, in my view.
The 3.7v, 1500mAH battery specified and supplied with the X1 is underpowered for the processor (Qualcomm MSM7200A 528Mhz)
The defining symptoms for this are overheating when:
a) using wifi for over 60 minutes whilst on charge
b) using GPS for over 60 minutes whilst on charge
This 60 minute limit is somewhat arbitrary - it may be as low as 30 minutes, but within 60 minutes the overheating will definitely manifest itself. At the very least, this causes the device to behave erratically and if left unchecked may eventually cause the battery to explode.
I've tried 3 completely new batteries now - all carefully charged overnight before turning on the device in accordance with SE instruction manual. All chargers (both wall and car) have Sony Ericsson stamped all over them, as do the batteries.
I've owned these devices previously, none of which showed this problem:
HP HW6515
HP HW6910
Eten X500
HTC P3600i
HTC Polaris (still used as a totally reliable backup)
Useless to say "don't use wifi, use AS". This comment tacitly admits that my comment is accurate - ie. don't use the wifi for more than say 15 minutes, else the battery overheats
Useless to say "don't use the GPS for more than an hour" - again a tacit admission that the battery/charge system is unfit for its purpose. It has no value when I'm field mapping for 8-10 hours at a time.
My best guess is that the battery is underpowered for the system, so that when a large, constant drain on the battery such as using wifi or GPS is executed whilst charging, the balance of power within the battery is erratic. It certainly charges, but at the expense of heating the battery to unacceptable levels.
It's of interest to note that the original wall charger supplied in the box has a stamped output of 700mAH at 5V, while an SE-stamped spare wall charger I purchased has an output of 300mAH at 5V. It takes longer for the overheating to show on the lower charge rate than the higher, but eventually it does show.
Of course, some will reply "My device doesn't do that, your phone must be faulty" ... to which I ask: "What happens when you leave the device on wall or car charging and use wifi or GPS for an hour or two ?" This is a very specific question and requires a very specific and accurate answer ... not an evasive piece of generalised rhubarb.
I'm looking at two ways to resolve this serious issue, because the X1 as currently constituted is unfit for its purpose:
1) eBaying this and replacing it with an Acer DX900/X960/F900 as my experience with Eten devices have been positive (again, slagging these devices does not address the battery issue with the X1)
2) waiting in the hope that within 6 months or so, MugenBatteries or some other reliable manufacturer will produce a more powerful replacement battery that will tend to overcome the problem
I welcome constructive comments, especially those that read the post before replying. The X1 has some good points of course (eg. abundant Storage/RAM, high WVGA resolution), but the battery issue is a serious, fundamental flaw that makes the device unfit to rely on when in the field.
Perhaps it's your X1 itself? I myself and a couple of friends have X1i's and X1a's and we do not have such a problem.
not necessarily a design fault
saying that its a design fault that your battery warms up is a bit of a sweeping statement. WiFi is notoriously power hungry and just because that device warms up a bit doesn't necessarily mean its going to get worse and worse and explode. if you work on that principle then may be none of us should use wireless routers as they often get pretty warm too - I know mine does!
Also, even if some devices manage to give the impression of being cool, it doesn't necessarily mean they are. they might just have double walling around the batt area, etc.
If you are worried though, go ahead and sell your phone - its only you that looses out!
I've also noticed that it gets remarkably hot when charging but that's when charging from the USB port on my laptop. Haven't really considered how hot it gets when charging from the mains or in my car. Will test it out on a long journey in my car and get back to you.
My X1 works very well and has no battary problem. The durability of the battery is excellent!
If you say excellent, whats been your experience? I have to recharge my phone every second night, at the very least.
No problems here
Can't say I've had any issue with hot batteries on my black X1, my mate who has a silver X1 often mentions that his battery gets very hot.
This is exactly the type of issue that arouses the partisans ...
but the only sensible reply so far was Ruudford, who states he will test his X1 on a long car trip.
That's sensible - I've tried on an 10 hour field mapping trip and in the end had to use the Polaris to maintain mapping data integrity
The exact question is: "What happens when you use wifi or GPS for an extended time (>1 hour at least) while the device is on charge ?"
I've given my results - from three (3) new batteries. These results show that the device is underpowered.
No other answer apart from Ruudford so far has actually addressed this exact issue I've pointed out.
Yes, i completely agree that the phone becomes a bit HOT when using WiFi/GPS while on charger, and really this scared me for a while.
it even get's hotter when using WiFi/GPS and charging through USB Port of a PC!
this is surly serious issue, regardless of the heat that might explode the battery (i think it's still far from that level) but this really might cause some problems internally!
we all know that using hTourch on high beam has melted the LED Base of some devices and dammaged the vibrator (not pointing to hTourch or something, with respect to the great application and the author) but heat is a really scary issue that Might (and i say MIGHT) dammage the X1 on the long run.
how to solve this?
i have no clue, maybe some electonics engineers here will give some explaination of what's going on. after all, i'm just a software developer after all :S
i agree that this must be addressed and attended by SE (replacing batteries/chargers/anything else) or "could it be a software problem?" like the software is utilizing the CPU much to decrypt the WiFi signal? or maybe wasting the CPU cycles?
possible! but not as a hardware hunger for power.
btw,
have you tried to upgrade to R2A version of the ROM?
after all i noticed that in the R2A my battery lasts longer, mybe fixed some high current consumption bugs! the heat is still there but i think (not sure) it's less that before.
if i dont open the keyboard..it relly gets hot on wifi...so much so that i can smell the heat
so what would the ideal battery specs be?
my phone used to get hot but since the rom update i havent noticed it at all.
when your reception is low, your phone get hot easily when surfing internet.. More battery consumption for grab the line.
I have also noted my X1i overheat whilst charging and the GPS/WiFi is on use but considering the power usage by those two functions I assume it is the norm, especially with the X1i having a metal casing which allows the heat to flow more freely from the inside to the outside casing.
Coming back to the first post on here...if you wanted only people who have the same opinion with you to reply you could have at least made it a plain and clear. So dismissing replies that you simply don't like as non constructive is very silly.
If you ask other users about their experience in similar situations, the replies you are going to receive are bound to be different because the variables that come in to play are countless.
ianl8888, my phone has the same problem, now that you have pointed it out! Once or twice when plugged into the wall or charging via USB, I have mistakenly left the WiFi on. The back of the phone gets extremely hot. I haven't used GPS yet.
I have the same problem, about 2 weeks i just travel to the beach and near to 1:30 hr of trip, my mobile stop to work, I do soft reset, and I catch that was really hot, because I'm charging and using GPS at the same time, my mobile is X1a and I have R2A ROM version. I imagine can be touchflow, so I uninstall and leave phone like originally came, but when I return from the beach I have exactly the same problem, I can't do a trip of 2 hours using GPS. I hope some one can find a solution.
so what exactly needs to be done - software problem or battery problem????
Has it ever occurred to anyone that it may be the cooling system in the phone and that it isn't ventilated right? Let's open a few holes in the case and see what happens!
Sfkn2 said:
Has it ever occurred to anyone that it may be the cooling system in the phone and that it isn't ventilated right? Let's open a few holes in the case and see what happens!
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Click to collapse
afaik, no phone have ventelation nor cooling system!
Edit : Heat-sink? Maybe but i don't think so! these things are not supposed to generate much heat! too much heat = more wasted energy = lower battery life
Coming from a Nokia 95 that I used to have to charge every 2 days after using it for GPS and WiFi I am totally impressed with my X1i that lasts 4 to 5 days with similar useage.
I remember my first phone (A motorola tac in 1995) that had a battery lasting all of 6 hours...
Well, great times you got. My phone is empty with 3 hours of GPS on.
As to the heating of battery/phone, my phone gets quite HOT outside when I use anything for a period of time (1hour) while NOT on charge.
I am using media player a lot to listen to music and after half an hour the phone becomes hard to hold in the hand because it heats up outside/backside really strong. Again, while NOT on charge, just using the battery power. And frankly that is more of concern that when on outlet power.
I had this with 2 different X1i's and both Silver!
hey all dumb question and yes I know there are tons of threads on this
but i want to find out just how common this is and also is there any correlation between touchscreens stopping and using android?
The reason I ask is because this will be the second HD2 I have sent back to tmobile
Thanks,
Yonu
ok here is a odd on i just placed the battery back in the HD2 and the touchscreen works should i still send it back in or not worry about it
Are you putting any stress to the front of the screen - like putting it in your pocket or have a case that may be too tight?
People here have been using Android for many months and we would have seen more posting of failed screens. Software should have no bearing on the touchscreen AT ALL. Heat may be another issue - possibly your phone or battery is getting super hot and may be causing a poorly soldered bridge to open up. This would be one theory and that would only mean you have a poorly constructed phone. I've been using Android daily for the past couple of months and my phone does have a tendency (based on battery widget) to run on the warm side around 40C during peak periods - phone on, etc. with GPS running but I don't think thats out of the norm because I think when running WINMO it ran at that temp during load.
If you are still under warranty or have insurance - send it back but first check your temps or maybe it could be a bad battery - bad power sometimes does strange things.
The interesting thing is that all the people with this problem seem to be T-mobile HD2 users, I would like to know if any Euro HD2 has this problem.
I had the problem on an EU HD2. Started a few weeks after installing android.
reflashed back to stock rom and returned it for repair and had no problems with that (until I broke the damned LCD screen
Been running it on android for 2 months now (Nand version - no WM at all) and had zero problems
Hello. I got an htd off of ebay for parts or not working. It clearly stated that it vibrates and reboots. I was thinking that it was a software issue, and even after i updated the bootloader, still no go. it has bootloader 2.10 something, i cant check because im going to give this one last shot and wait till the battery is finished charging. i also noticed that it has an LG charger, which is ok, but after i read that it generates a lot of heat, well... the charger is rated at 5.7v could this have caused the cpu to overheat and its just a new brick? i dont have the time or patience to do any more. Not under warranty, i am a valued t-mobile customer since ive been with then for over 5 years. would it be would be worth fixing since its in near new condition or just move on?
htcphone69 said:
Hello. I got an htd off of ebay for parts or not working. It clearly stated that it reboots. I was thinking that it was a software issue, and even after i updated the bootloader, still no go. it has bootloader 2.10 something, i cant check because im going to give this one last shot and wait till the battery is finished charging. i also noticed that it has an LG charger, which is ok, but after i read that it generates a lot of heat, well... the charger is rated at 5.7v could this have caused the cpu to overheat and its just a new brick? i dont have the time or patience to do any more. Not under warranty, i am a valued t-mobile customer since ive been with then for over 5 years. would it be would be worth fixing, or just move on?
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Considering the fix is replacing motherboard( for US$60-80), you should figure out if it worth...
What causes the motherboards and cpus to become defective?
htcphone69 said:
What causes the motherboards and cpus to become defective?
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As far as I found out over the time, these are the main factors:
- very good performance of CPU(high frequency, speed, computing power, in a few words HEAT);
- rather narrow space inside the device, because of design;
- (IMO) lack of a more performant solution of ventilation;
- composition of the alloy used to "solder" CPU on motherboard;
- habits of the owner to perform (probably) intense tasks for a (relatively) long period of time (games, movies, web browsing, etc) during device is on charging.
In a few words I may say HD2 is his own performances&design victim!
htcphone69 said:
What causes the motherboards and cpus to become defective?
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Evidently the location of the "END" key is also somewhat close to components on the motherboard (I've not disassembled one to see if this is true). I have read reports that this may form a critical path that causes overheating.
Mine is usually fine, but when using GPS, BT, Mobile, and the OS, I have had it get pretty hot. But with WinMo it did not have any lockup problems. With Android I have found that it is more likely the OS that hesitates if one runs too many applications at the same time.
stevedebi said:
Evidently the location of the "END" key is also somewhat close to components on the motherboard (I've not disassembled one to see if this is true). I have read reports that this may form a critical path that causes overheating.
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Totally not true, no offence! It's like you'd say your dashboard lighter causes overheating to your car's engine!
There is no relation between END key and overheating, if you'd see an disassembled hd2 you'd figure out this!
bib*oops said:
Totally not true, no offence! It's like you'd say your dashboard lighter causes overheating to your car's engine!
There is no relation between END key and overheating, if you'd see an disassembled hd2 you'd figure out this!
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Well, as I said I've not disassembled one. But it is not like the car example. If the end key is anywhere near components, pushing it frequently or hard could indeed cause interference, which could cause the over heating.
I'm going from memory a couple of years ago when the overheating issue came up. I myself seldom use the end key.
stevedebi said:
Well, as I said I've not disassembled one. ............. If the end key is anywhere near components, pushing it frequently or hard could indeed cause interference, which could cause the over heating.
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Well, I thought is well-known that using END-key, frequently or hard, mechanically interferes with touchscreen flex-ribbon causing touchscreen/digitizer failure over the time, but nothing related to CPU overheating.
bib*oops said:
Well, I thought is well-known that using END-key, frequently or hard, mechanically interferes with touchscreen flex-ribbon causing touchscreen/digitizer failure over the time, but nothing related to CPU overheating.
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Ah, maybe that was it - the digitizer.
Every HD2 I've owned has had heat issues, but I've only had to exchange one of them because it got so bad that the phone froze.
stevedebi said:
Ah, maybe that was it - the digitizer.
Every HD2 I've owned has had heat issues, but I've only had to exchange one of them because it got so bad that the phone froze.
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I think it's normal for a stressed(heavy/multiple tasks used) hd2 to heat up, but a good one should face it successfully. Well, treating it this way for long periods of time(especially under charging), may result over the time in a CPU overheating failure.
bib*oops said:
I think it's normal for a stressed(heavy/multiple tasks used) hd2 to heat up, but a good one should face it successfully. Well, treating it this way for long periods of time(especially under charging), may result over the time in a CPU overheating failure.
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I tend to agree with that, so long as the device doesn't lock up on me. When that happens, I replace the device.
I came across some strange CPU behavior on my Exynos Note 4, and I wanted to see if there's a pattern between the SD805 and Exynos versions.
First, I used this app A1 cpu tool to get a real-time measure of cpu clocks. I installed it on both my Note 2 and Note 4.
Now, when I hover my s-pen over the screen (enough for the cursor to show) OR touch the screen, the CPU jumps up to 1300mhz (max power). On my Note 2, it will only get up to 800mhz (half of it's max CPU speed), which leads me to believe that the Note 4 is being too aggressive with CPU scaling, and it's resulting in poor screen on times.
I'd like to hear from both SD805 and Exynos users to see if they exhibit the same behavior. There should be no reason why Sammy is cranking the CPU up full tilt just to keep the s-pen cursor on the screen - or to handle touch events without anything major happening on the screen itself.
Hmm.. good observation and findings chap.. lets see what samsung has to say er... or any devs
Interesting, but if you have poor SoT, this is not the cause.
pedmond said:
Interesting, but if you have poor SoT, this is not the cause.
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It certainly could be if my device use involves a lot of screen touch events (i.e. not watching movies). I type a lot on my phone, and if the CPU is running a full power for each key press, it can certainly cause more drain than it needs to.
EDIT : I will add that bench marking for battery life WITHOUT touching the screen gives me very respectable times. SEE SCREENSHOT
EP2008 said:
It certainly could be if my device use involves a lot of screen touch events (i.e. not watching movies). I type a lot on my phone, and if the CPU is running a full power for each key press, it can certainly cause more drain than it needs to.
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There have been more people complaining about poor SoT - the probability that all of them are using the stylus in such an intensive way seems small.
I can testify that I also use the stylus taking notes during meetings, sometimes as long as 2 hours. I never noticed a SoT reduction because of this.
However, it may be useful for you to post your battery usage stats. We could get a better understanding of the root cause. BTW, are you rooted?
pedmond said:
There have been more people complaining about poor SoT - the probability that all of them are using the stylus in such an intensive way seems small.
Click to expand...
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Interestingly, simply hovering the s-pen over the screen will ramp up the CPU too... I have a hard time believing that it wouldn't impact battery life.
pedmond said:
I can testify that I also use the stylus taking notes during meetings, sometimes as long as 2 hours. I never noticed a SoT reduction because of this.
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Are you measuring the consumption, like in drain per hour or something like that? I notice drain between 12% - 20% per hour simply depending on very minor differences in usage (i.e web browsing vs. tweeting). I tend to use the stylus a lot.
pedmond said:
However, it may be useful for you to post your battery usage stats. We could get a better understanding of the root cause. BTW, are you rooted?
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I am rooted and get good standby time and expected battery life (i.e with gaming). But regular SOT sucks and I barely pull 4h most days.
I'm hoping that Snapdragon users can confirm whether their device ramps up the CPU on touches too, or if it's just Exynos models (that could explain why people are experiencing such a variation in SOT between the two chips).
I wonder what happens if you still type a lot, but without using the stylus. That would measure if it's the touch events themselves or the stylus hovering.
When I said before that I don't see a SoT reduction while using the stylus it was just a subjective impression. I didn't actually measure it simply because I didn't feel it's worth measuring.
If you're right about this, I really hope Samsung comes out with a solution.
pedmond said:
I wonder what happens if you still type a lot, but without using the stylus. That would measure if it's the touch events themselves or the stylus hovering.
When I said before that I don't see a SoT reduction while using the stylus it was just a subjective impression. I didn't actually measure it simply because I didn't feel it's worth measuring.
If you're right about this, I really hope Samsung comes out with a solution.
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Benchmarking with actual touch events would be very time consuming, but if I could disable CPU throttling for touch events, I could test with general use.
I read somewhere that this could be done, but I haven't seen any cpu control apps that do it on my stock Note 4 kernel. Perhaps it needs to be custom (or changed by Samsung)?
Sent from my SM-N910U
So, this is what I was talking about: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2532422
"input_boost_freq = Boost CPU speed to this frequency on touch screen events. Measured in MHz."
I would LOVE to be able to adjust that on the Note 4! I believe there's either a bug or an over-aggressive use of this function.