Related
I have recently acquired a T-Mobile pocket pc phone. It works fine as a phone but I am having problems getting it to work with GPRS with Vodafone here in Australia. I get a "connected" message but I can't even do a simple thing like load the google home page.
I have installed pocketcmd and nettools and ipconfig shows me I have an IP address, ipmask, gateway address and dns servers. I even tried to ping a couple of places like www.google.com and it works.
What could I be missing?
I have ROM version 3.08.10 ENG date 7/11/02,
radio 6.03
protocol 324e4.
FYI I fixed this by modifying the existing "Internet Settings" profile to use the vodafone australia APN vfinternet.au. I don't know why this works while my own profile displays this bizarre behaviour.
I have same problem.
Using XDAII as wireless modem under Bluetooth & GPRS. Folloed guide: http://www.xda-2.co.uk/user_downloads/pdf/Xda_II_Modem_Setup_Guide.pdf. Worked perfectly. (D-Link USB Bluetooth using Widcomm 1.4.2).
BUT NO HTTP! Ping, Telnet, DNS resolution, perfect. Not http.
Looks like might be a DNS recolution on the in-line proxy O2 use, as calling web sites with IP numbers sometimes gets some data.
Obviously, IP with no HTTP is not much good these days, even if it would keep my O2 bill down.
Thanks to any person who can suggest a fix.
Ben
Hi,
I have a little problem that I am sure there must be an easy solution to!
I have set up a VPN on my Universal to connect to work. The problem is that my work's VPN server allocates me an ip address in the 10.x.x.x address range. All servers that I need to access behind the VPN have addresses in this range as well. Unfortunately, my ISP (T-Mobile UK), also allocates an address in the same range. Therefore, whenever I try to acccess a server at work, WM5 suffers confusion since it doesn't know whether to route the message through the VPN or directly out to the internet through the cellular modem.
I have been able to verify that the VPN thing works if my work network was on a different network address since initially, I was unable to VPN into my PC at home for the reason described above. I changed the ip addresses of all machines on my home network and now everything works fine at home.
Unfortuantely, I am unlikely to convince the IT people at work to change the address of all their machines. Similarly, I don't think I will have much success with T-Mobile and so is there anything I can change at my end to avoid this problem?
Thanks in advance for any help.
Mark
Narrowing the ip address may help, eg 10.0.0.1 is different to 10.1.0.1.
are you using this over wifi or gprs? if the phone provider is involved, I assume its gprs.
you could try and esablish your ip address as fixed rather than part of the pool, so the it guys assign a range for remote connections as say 10.0.0.100 to 10.0.0.150 as remote dial in connections, thus giving you a separate number.
the best way though I would have thought is for you to a fixed ip address known to you and the servers, and then hard type the ip address as your vpn settings, then establish that ip address as part of the exceptions settings.
in order to use exceptions though you have to know the range, or the exact ip address you will be assigned, and must be different to your telco.
not much of a solution, just some suggested areas to look at.
cheers
s.
hi guys, just out of curiosity what software are you using for VPN? on my laptop my company has installed cisco vpn, does it need to be a cisco vpn for wm5?? :?
From bad to worse...
Thanks for the reply Simon.
Unfortunately, I just went to try out some of your ideas and discovered that I can't get the VPN to connect at all now. It used to connect OK but then have routing problems whenever I tried to access anything. And my home VPN worked perfectly. Now, I can connect to neither.
I simply switched over to an O2 sim and with minimal configuration changes could verify that my setup still works OK and so it must be something to do with T-Mobile blocking ports. They weren't blocked yesterday!!!
Yesterday I "upgraded" my GPRS account from T-Mobile's Web'N'Walk to Web'N'Walk Professional and now I find I have this problem. Is this just a coincidence, or could it be that the Pro version has more severe restrictions than the consumer version?
I have emailed Customer Services to see what they have to say.
I will post back when I get a reply from T-Mobile.
mstar, I am no VPN expert, but for me, using a Windows XP hosted PPTP VPN it works after a fashion (above problems excepted!). I am using the VPN client built into Windows Mobile 5. I think you stand a good chance of getting it working using the built-in client.
Mark
I simply switched over to an O2 sim and with minimal configuration changes could verify that my setup still works OK and so it must be something to do with T-Mobile blocking ports. They weren't blocked yesterday!!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've heard on the grapevine that T-mobile have explicitly refused certain types of traffic on the web-n-walk
VOIP is the biggy...
I was seriously thinking about getting signed up - but no point if IPSEC is a prob, as well as VOIP.
Not sure how they can tell it's Skype traffic :?
http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2006/05/09/t-mobile_bans_voip/
for more info
An Update
An update on my VPN problem. Yesterday after total failure to get the VPN to connect, I emailed T-Mobile customer services.
Although they have not replied, when I tried it this afternoon I found that it was working again as before even though it had not been working first thing this morining. Of course I have not changed anythng at my end to cause it to break and then start working again (but they all say that, don't they!).
So, I don't know whether this was just a momentary fault, or whether T-Mobile have changed something to re-enable the VPN ports for me. I can now VPN in to my home PC, but the problem connecting to my work VPN with the 10.x.x.x address remains.
So, Sikkutz, depending on the address of the remote network, you may or may not be able to get a VPN to work using T-Mobile's Web'N'Walk.
By the way, my VPNs both use Microsoft's PPTP and not IPSec and so there may be different issues with that protocol.
I have discovered that O2 provides a separate acccess point, vpn.o2.co.uk, that causes a public ip address to be allocated to the device, ie not on the 10.x.x.x network. It would seem that this is designed to address this very problem. Does anyone know if T-Mobile can provide something similar?
Mark
There must be a solution
Hi!
I have the same problem with my Qtek 9000 (VPA IV). I can connect to my VPN Gateway but the routing into LAN failed. I get a 10.x.x.x address from Vodafone Germany and my LAN uses 10.98.8.X. :-(
But there must be a solution! My previous Qtek 9010 (VPA III) had the same problem, but it was able to route between the 10.-networks after a firmware-upgrade to version 1.40.01! But I don't no why!
What was changed in firmware to enable routing???
Daniel
i have the same issue aswell, I am reluctant to change the IP range of my machines as that usually causes trouble for the servers
Any other ideas?
Thanks
maybe stupid thing, but did you guys try dna forwarding (that is what I use from home office, not on pda to be honest..
Maybe I just did not get your point....
What kind of VPN server do you use? I'am using a Cisco PIX and use a PPTP VPN almost everyday. I can use the 10.1.x.x network at the location the PIX is located (this PIX is directly connected to the 10.1.x.x network).
I can't however use any of the remote offices using 10.2/10.3.x.x etc.
This is becaus of the lack of routing abilities in the PPTP implementation.
With an IPSEC tunnel (additional software needed) the remote offices can be reached without any problems.
I know that some IP implementation disallow routing between a public address and any 10.x address. To solve this you could give your VPN clients an address from a 10.x subnet .
hi sorry been away awhile,
I use the routing and remote admin snapin of Windows server 2003 to manage my VPN, I can connect fine using the phone as a modem with my notebook but as soon as I try accessing any URL/resource on my network it fails, e.g. we have a intranet site on http://servername but it wont open this up.
Any Ideas?
My searches on the web haven't yielded much help or information so I thought I would come to the experts...
I have a Treo 750 that I just "upgraded" to WM6 2 days ago. I noticed that DUN has gone away and was replaced by ICS. After configuring my laptop to use that instead of DUN I connected and was surfing the web. My problem now is VPN. I travel frequently (luckily I'm in the office until Jan.) and regularly used my phone to connect to the corporate network via VPN. I also work with a lot of other companies and have VPN access to their systems as well. Basically now I can open my Cisco VPN client, connect to a VPN gateway, authenticate, get assigned all the appropriate IP information, but cannot communicate on the network. What gives? Is there a solution to this? If not, what the heck was MS thinking when they did this!? My phone is basically useless for one of the major reasons I bought it...
Any help is appreciated!
thanks!
Ok, further searches found that DUN can be added back into WM6 via a cab that was posted here at the XDA forums. I installed it and the DUN service is now visible again. I unpaired by phone and laptop, re-paired, and included DUN. Now when I try to connect, I get the DUN connection box after the bluetooth connection is initiated but when I click DIAL I get the DIALING... prompt, followed by Error 678: The remote computer did not respond.
Anybody get this working on a Treo 750? Thoughts, ideas suggestions?
What is the ip address you are getting via the cisco vpn client
It maybe that it is in the same subnet as the ip address assigned to the pc from the wm6 ics. The ICS gives the address 192.168.0.1. and if your Cisco is also giving a 192.168 address then you will have two routes for the 192 address range thus giving you the problem when accessing hosts.
If this is the problem Im pretty sure you can change the address allocated via the ICS using a registry editor. If not you may be able to get work to use a different range for you on the cisco vpn.
Our corporate network is 172.x.x.x so it's nowhere near the 192.168.0.x assigned by the phone. When I look at the route in the VPN client I see 192.0.0.0, 10.0.0.0, and 172.0.0.0 so I am assuming 192 is my laptop, 10 is the phone, and 172 is the corporate network.
I'm guessing NATing is the problem. I've been reading that if I use a different APN (isp.cingular instead of wap.cingular) there is no NATing. I've tried both, and I've tried turning off and on the "force AT&T" proxy setting to no avail.
Tried the DUN cab hack that is floating around for WM6 also. The service is active again and I can also add Modem Link back in and my laptop sees my Treo as a modem but when I dial I get an error stating the remote computer did not respond. I'm guessing along with going from WM5 to WM6 AT&T also updated the radio so the old communications protocols don't work anymore?
Hello Sir,
I have exactly the same problem... I have successfully connected via VPN, however unable to communicate with any devices on that network... Then what is the use of VPN on the phone? I've tried searching online for answers, but no luck... People are having the same problem but no one knows how to solve it... I'll try and trouble shoot this problem more as soon as my exams are done...
Hi
Working successfully for me. I am using Imate jasjam wm6. Pc using cisco client connecting via ics on phone. I have telstra 3g connection tested ok on both telstra.internet (Nated ip) and telstra.extranet (real ip).
You are correct it may be an nat issue. Can you check that your transparent tunnelling is on as follows: right click on your connection entry in cisco client and select modify then transport tab. Check that enable transport tunneling is enabled ipsec over udp(Nat/pat).
The other thing to check is that the cisco vpn server aslo has transport over Nat on as well.
Also are you sure your corporate ip range is 172 or is that the range given by the cisco vpn to clients.
Transport tunneling is on (always was). I'll have to check with our network admin and check on the VPN server setting...I guess as long as I have connectivity back to the office, I don't need it that badly for all the customers I need to connect to at various times.
Yep, positive on the corporate IP. Right now it is 172.28.1.87 and I'm in the office.
Thanks for the help so far. Got any other suggestions on how I can troubleshoot further?
One other thought...should I modify the registry on the phone to assign a different IP address to my laptop? Would that help?
Same Problem
MX. I am having the exact same issue but with Securemote VPN. I've looked through the registry and found the assigned address, but I'm wary of changing anything until I can find some more information.
Anyone out there ever change the DHCP configuration for their phone?
Somewhat related question?
Im attempting to route my connection on my mobile through a laptop acting as a wan bridge, then uplinking it into the router. The issue Im having is that XP and WM6 both use the same IP Block. Ive read and read and cant find much to tell me how to change the WM6 IP BLock to something like 192.168.2.1 rather than the default 192.168.0.1
Does anyone have any pointers? Ive looked through the registry. There MUST be a simple way to change a default.
To clarify my setup, I am using ICS Via USB into a UMPC laptop running XP. The UMPC is set to share that same connection back out over Ethernet. The ethernet runs into my WAN Uplink on the router and then back out via wifi/rj-45
This setup works as I have done it using Wifi with other networks, and I can chose the "Lan3" to share under the advanced settings on the UMPC. The reason I dont just share out via Wifi from the start is that Wifi on my Kaiser and Raphael both make the device to hot to charge, thusly killing the battery within a couple hrs of sharing. If I share via USB , it stays pretty cool and still charges.
Anyone have any pointers?
I have already tried tricking XP into using the Lan on another block but as soon as you try to share the USB lan, it reverts back to the 192.168.0.1
The only way I can imagine is a registry modification or a program change in ICS.
Thanks Much!
Hi all
Ive just brough a new belkin wireless n router set it up as you should connected my laptop my brothers laptop my desktop my ipod touch but my MDA touch will not connect to it. My touch connects to my other trendnet router fine and all other AP i have tryed. what is really bugging me is that when i try and connect to my new belkin it wont let me connect to any other routers so i have to delete the belkin router from my device and soft reset
i am starting to think it could be a faulty router or mda
Same boat....
I have the same issue with my HTC Kaiser, can see a host of AP/Wireless Routers via the Wi-Fi card but fails to connect to my Belkin F5D8631-4 v3 N1 Wireless Modem Router, a real pain in the arse considering the price I paid for the router, everything else connects, PC's, PS3, 360, DS Lite, PSP the lot....all bar the Kaiser.
Anyone managed to find a solution to this issue and sitting on it
Before you ask, no security enabled, only using the MAC address filtering to do the job of keeping unwanted off my network, even with this turned off the Kaiser see the network, flags it up as available but will not connect....
Any help gratefully received
Connecting
I bought a sitecom mimo XR router, I have got the same problem with a Qtek 9090.
The solution I found is, dont activate dhcp on your device but manually add the ip adresses of your router and device, set the dns server ip-adress to the ip-adress of your device.
Worked for me.
royaldutch51 said:
I bought a sitecom mimo XR router, I have got the same problem with a Qtek 9090.
The solution I found is, dont activate dhcp on your device but manually add the ip adresses of your router and device, set the dns server ip-adress to the ip-adress of your device.
Worked for me.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the feedback/comments
I have done (I think) correctly and its still not playing ball, just to confirm the actual detail:
Router Set Up:
DHCP Activated ? (it is currently)
All WEP/WPA turned off
MAC address filtering turned on and the MAC adress for the hand set network card (found by
on to Com Manager, Settings, Wireless Lan, Advanced Tab) is on the list on accepted MAC address on the MAC filter
Handset Settings
Wireless Network Adapter settings (on Configure Network Adapters page)
IEEE 802.11b/g Compatible Wi-Fi
User Specific IP address 192.168.2.50 (not an address allocated by DHCP)
Subnet Mask 255.255.255.0
Default Gateway 192.168.2.1 (IP address of the Router)
Primary DNS 192.168.2.1 (IP address of the Router)
I get the same sort of problem occasionaly with my universal. The only thing that sorts it out is deleting any reference to the connection then removing the battery. This seems to flush out the system & then it finds it a new connection & connects straight away, worth a try if nothing else works.
JohnWB said:
I get the same sort of problem occasionaly with my universal. The only thing that sorts it out is deleting any reference to the connection then removing the battery. This seems to flush out the system & then it finds it a new connection & connects straight away, worth a try if nothing else works.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks John,
I did try this, and it didn't make a difference.
You know when you get that feeling you are going to have to admit defeat....
Any solutions so far
Guys,
Does anyone has a solution so far?
What version of Windows mobile are you running?
This post in the Shift forum
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=384730
mentions a beta firmware on Belkins UK site which solves the problem.
hi, i'm using a mda vario 3 with an older Belkin router and it works fine. I have the dhcp server turned off with all the ip's set manually. the ieee 802.1 auth thingy is not selected. other than that my settings are similar to those posted above. Although i have wep security set up. (Nintendo ds's only do wep)
Corrykid said:
What version of Windows mobile are you running?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I run Windows Mobile 6.1
When I ran Windows Mobile 6.0, I did not have contact with my Sitecom WL-173 router either.
tembares said:
Guys,
Does anyone has a solution so far?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have found the solution.
Just upgrade the radio to 1.64.08.21.
Then it works.
wifi problem
just upgraded my MDA to wm6.1 and i encountered a problem regarding with my wifi connection.
having my old wm5, i dont have any problem connecting to my wireless router(d link) but when i upgraded my wizard to wm6.1, at first it will connect for about 20sec then the connection will drop and i cant connect anymore. but my wizard detects my router but it just on the screen that it is unavailable even though it shows a very strong signal.
i've tried to hard reset it and it doesn't work. i just wondering if there's a configuration i should do with the setting of my wifi? or is there an application that i can download here? and also i lost the voice tag program of my phone when i upgraded it to wm6.1, where cant i download an application for it?
thank you in advance!!! ([email protected])
Customer Call Details Nov 13 2008 04:37
I have an HTC Touch that can connect to other hotspots, but not to my home Belkin router. Sometimes, if there is another connection available, it can see the router, and says that it is Available, but cannot connect; other times it won't even see it. I have checked for firmware updates, but I have the latest. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Belkin Response Nov 14 2008 22:18
Hi Lilburd,
Thank you for contacting Belkin Technical Support.
We understand that the HTC Touch does not connect to the router. We apologize for the inconvenience caused.
Please follow the steps given below to update the firmware and configure the router:
We recommend that you update the firmware from a computer that is connected to the router with an ethernet cable.
Please download the latest firmware on the router from the link given below. Download the file "3.01.29":
http://www.belkin.com/uk/support/article/?lid=enu&pid=F5D8233uk4&aid=10288&scid=0
and save it to the computer.
- To update the firmware, log on to the router`s web interface by typing in http://192.168.2.1 in the address bar of the browser. The computer should be
connected to the router with an ethernet cable.
Note: If you have changed your Router’s IP address, use that IP address.
- By default, the password is blank. Click the "Submit" button.
- Click on "Firmware Upgrade" under the option "Utilities".
- Click on “Browse” and select the bin file that you have downloaded.
- Click on “update” and follow the wizard.
- After updating the firmware, restore the router to factory defaults by clicking on "Restore Factory Defaults" under "Utilities".
- Reconfigure the router.
Please follow the steps given below for configuring the router:
- Connect the computer to the "LAN" port on the router and connect the modem to the Internet/"WAN" port, using Ethernet cables.
- Take a paper clip, insert the paper clip in the reset hole of the router and hold it for 15 seconds.
- The power light will flash and then come back "ON" solid, indicating that the router is being restored to factory defaults.
- The corresponding lights on the front of the router should be lit up.
- On the computer, check if you have an IP address in the range of 192.168.2.x.
- If not, specify a static IP address, gateway and "DNS" address by following the steps given in the link-
http://web.belkin.com/support/kb/kb.asp?a=2824
- Log on to the router web interface by typing in http://192.168.2.1, in the address bar of your browser.
- By default, the password is blank.
- Click on "Connection Type" in the left hand column under "Internet WAN" heading.
If the connection type is Dynamic (cable):
- Choose "Dynamic" and then click on "Next".
- Type in your “Host Name”, if your Internet Service Provider has provided it. Else, leave it blank.
- Click on "Change WAN MAC Address".
- Click on the button "Clone".
- Click on "Apply Changes".
If the connection type is PPPOE (DSL):
- Choose "PPPOE" and click on "Next".
- Enter the user name and password given by your Internet Service Provider.
- Save the settings.
- Click on the "Home" link at the top of the screen.
Internet Status should show "Connected" on the top right hand corner of the web page.
If the problem persists, please get back to us with the following information:
1. Type of connection provided by your ISP (Is it PPPOE, Dynamic or static).
2. Name of the Internet service provider (ISP).
3. Version number of the router. You would find the version number on the bottom of the device. It would be a number in a series of thousands with a prefix “ver.”.
4. If the internet connection is stable on the computers using the router?
5. If the HTC Touch detects and connects to other networks in the neighborhood?
Lilburd, if you need further assistance please feel free to write back to us and we will be happy to assist you.
Regards,
Belkin Technical Support.
This was the response I got from Belkin after emailing them. It worked like a charm
Registry option
Not Sure about this one, but if you use SK Tools, or find the registry values yourself, there is an option to activate on the Touch, the 801 g networks compatibility, for some reason they are compatible but the option comes 'off' by default.
Paul
THANK YOU - Wizard 9100 now connecting to belkin N1
thank you - I had the same problem as original post - I updated using the pre release belkin firmware and it works now.
Excellent!
I was pretty sure that it was an incompatibility issue between HTC and Belkin.
Thanks a lot for this patch, you saved my (wifi) life ^^
This update also worked with my Kaiser! I was pulling my hair out trying to get it to connect. Thanks a lot!
The strangest thing I have even experienced, and perhaps can save you time and headache.
** Summary (for those not wanting to read the whole story, but just the fix)
If your HD2 Android can connect to your home WiFi but cannot access Internet, check if your WiFi network uses a 192.168.20.x IP subnet address. The HD2 Android's USB port uses the same subnet, causing a conflict. If you change your home WiFi to use any other subnet, it will work fine.
** The Long Story
Been reading and admiring all the Android developments in XDA-Developers for some time, finally decided it was time to give it a try. Picked one of the more popular and stable MDJ Froyo (Desire HD) for SD and loved it.
Problem is couldn't use the Internet via WiFi from my home. Internet via GPRS works fine, Internet via USB/PC works fine, just not WiFi. The connection to WiFi is successful, picks up a DHCP IP address just fine, but no Internet.
Oh well, perhaps there is a WiFi bug in HD2 Android not reported so never mind.
Wait! On a business trip, when HD2 Android connecting to the hotel's WiFi, Internet works fine! Subsequently in many other places WiFi works also flawlessly.
Must be the WiFi router at home. Not too surprising as I don't use much wireless but wired all my other computers (including notebook PCs), it is faster anyways.
So went back and tested WiFi on a notebook PC (prior to that upgraded the WiFi router's firmware), PC connects and works, but HD2 Android still not. Tried all kinds of WiFi and encryption combination (BGN, BG, G only, WPA2, WPA, WEP), just nothing works for HD2 Android. >> Conclusion: not the WiFi router at home, just HD2 Android working with this particular WiFi router.
Finally (but forgot what app it was), I saw the USB port binding to 192.168.20.x subnet, exactly the same as my LAN subnet in the WiFi router.
Bingo, changed the LAN subnet to something else (really anything is fine because it is inside a NAT so not an issue getting out to the Internet) and HD2 Android works like a charm.
Hope this helps.
sorry, can you explain more where to change in the router settings? i can't find anything to change in my wireless settings
Look up the LAN (local area network setting) in your router, where the IP address for most WiFi router is set to use 192.168.0.1
In my case the WiFi router is set to use 192.168.20.1 (and DHCP to pass out 192.168.20.x IP addresses).
By changing the IP address of the router, most router automatically change the DHCP assignment to corresponding subnet, say from 192.168.20.1 to 192.168.x.1
x can be any of 0 to 255, just not 20 for my case or it causes conflict with HD2 Android.
Hi Dear friend , And Thanks for sharing experiences.
I have the same problem , but my router's setting is :
IP Address : 192.168.1.1
and my Starting IP Address : 192.168.1.100
IP Pool Count : 101
DHCP : Enabled
NAT : Enabled
Default Route : YES
but no webpage loaded , the weather not work . but the meebo messenger
with my yahoo ID just worked .
so how can i fix it ?
tnx
I notice the conflict (with my 192.168.2.x) when I checked the HD2 IP addresses (after connecting to the WiFi). When I see the USB port bound to 192.168.2.x I know the two just conflict with each other.
If something (meebo messenger?) works but not others... could it be your HD2 not getting name resolution (DNS ?). Say if you try opening this do you get the Google page:
http://74.125.153.104/
** This is Google's page without the need to resolve via DNS.
webmice said:
I notice the conflict (with my 192.168.2.x) when I checked the HD2 IP addresses (after connecting to the WiFi). When I see the USB port bound to 192.168.2.x I know the two just conflict with each other.
If something (meebo messenger?) works but not others... could it be your HD2 not getting name resolution (DNS ?). Say if you try opening this do you get the Google page:
http://74.125.153.104/
** This is Google's page without the need to resolve via DNS.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
hi my friend. I tested it with IP but nothing changed.
but some of the WebSites with SubDomain Loaded. like : http://2.farsihiphop.com
and can u tell me how can I know about the port nimber . like USB port.
i think my Android's Kernels have been changes. maybe i'll can find something like this (equal IP address)
thanks.
I have following problem : At my university i have hidden Wifi network, locked with password.. But, ofcourse, we cracked their password, and now we can use their WiFi.. But i cant use it.. On WM i could use it .. One more thing to mention, there is a proxy u need to setup before u can go on internet trough that Wifi network.. but thats not my concerne yet.. I cant get connected to that Wifi.. I make new conn, with password and other settings, and it keep saying : Connecting... Disconnected...
Any ideas to help me ?
Thanks in advance
I had the same problem. I solved it by updating the radio to version 2.14.50.2. I think this version works best.
For me 2.15.50.14 works, too...