Hi,
I ponder the switch from 2.0 to 3.5. What bothers me is that it's possible to do a side-by-side-installation with a .net 2.0-rom by installing 3.5 from a cab, but you can never install 2.0 as a cab if the rom is made with 3.5.
So, I am interested whether there are programs which are known to be incompatible with 3.5.
Please, don't give me the "3.5 works fine for me and is faster" - I know that. However, nothing in life is free, and I wonder whether those 2% stated by MS are really relevant, meaning that they contain programs which I would potentially miss.
Have fun!
Thoops, sorry - could any admin move this to "development and hacking"?
net is pretty much backward conpatible unless the programmers used deprecated functions which have been removed in 3.5
there was a list of such functions when they went to 1.1 to 2 as in they still worked but ms claimed free to remove them in later versions
some of those located in their compact framework could have been removed
i'm sure msdn have info if thats the case
and likely a new list of functions of 2 have now been marked deprecated and could be removed in the version after 3.5
Related
...anyone knows where to get it?
thanx
buzz
Take a look here: http://msdn.microsoft.com/mobility/
dcs,
Please correct me if I'm wrong. With .net you have a very thin client on the phone that relys on internet connectivity to a server to get most of its functionality, correct???
Because of this it didn't seem that useful for the phone becuase the app would be useless without a GPRS connection.
Thanks,
Ok, this might have been a direct question to dcs but I'll take a shot at it anyway..
When .NET framework is installed on the device, it does not require any connection to the internet what so ever..
Just like Java..
Many java applets are used on/in web pages, but you could allso run applets directly on the device..
With java, this requires a "Virtual Machine"..
What's great with .NET is that a person can very easily integrate the application with services hosted on the internet..
It's very flexible in this manner..
10 out of 7???? Multiple personalities!
10/7
This is the logicall flaw that many people actually don't see..
paulmc said:
dcs,
Please correct me if I'm wrong. With .net you have a very thin client on the phone that relys on internet connectivity to a server to get most of its functionality, correct???
Because of this it didn't seem that useful for the phone becuase the app would be useless without a GPRS connection.
Thanks,
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
.NET in its entirety embraces many different deployment models.
The .NET Framework essential embraces the PC world, and the .NET Compact Framework is a subset of the .NET Framework designed specifically for mobile devices.
Clients on the PPC that run within the .NET Compact Framework are 'rich' clients, in that they run code on the device and have device resources available to them. They are not restricted to being Internet applications and can perform any tasks on the PPC such as Today screen applications, self contained data applications, etc.
The only client on the PPC when using an ASP.NET application is the web browser, with all the processing taking place on the server, and all data being held on the server.
Some facts about .NET (imho&offtopic)
.NET & .NETCF
When MS started with its ".NET compaign" they were saying that .NET is a platform-independent framework... It means the following: once program is developed it will run on any platform (unix, winxp, wince, os/2 and etc...) But what we see??? We see the new .NET framework - .Net Compact Framework! Another framework and another need for developers to re-write their programs for this target platform. What are the gains for the end-users? No gains, only losses. Many software developers were cought on platform-independence declared by M$ and have developed software for .NET thinking that their software is cross-platform. But in fact, when NETCF was declared everyone had realized "cross-platformness" and had understood that many end-users will not see .NET programs running at .NETCF
.NETCF
.NET Compact is heavily dependent on core functions written on C++. Without these functions you can't do any Today Screen applications and other such basic development. Thus, we are required to refer to C++ functions for our programming and the concept of "manageable" code is pissed out. As for end-users, they continue to suffer from unmanageable code errors such as buffer over/underruns and other memory tricks even though the software that they bought is written on .NETCF which in its turn shall be the sign of security of application
ASP.NET & PocketIE
ASP.NET uses extended document object model (DOM) for its client-side functionality. But this model is not well-implemented on Pocket version of IE. Thus, end-users on PPC will have some problems with full-scale asp.net web-applications that require pre-posting processing on client-side when dealing with scarce resources (slow inet connection and etc)
Finally, dNET & .NETCF are really SLOW as any interpretation language indeed and are not well distributed among other platforms (Palm, Unix and even Win98/ME!)
Developers, are you still believe in .NET perspectives? ;-)))
I was not extolling .NET - merely answering a question.
Most of your comments are based on developer frustrations - which I share. For the end-user, what I have stated is true.
.NET
dcs said:
I was not extolling .NET - merely answering a question.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Don't take this on your part, this is for info only
buzz_lightyear said:
...anyone knows where to get it?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
PB 4.20 and 5.0 trial versions can be freely downloaded from Microsoft (about 1-2Gb each). But you cannot use it to create a ROM for our device, because it does not contain necessary BSP. The only useful thing - is WinCE partial source code coming with it.
@mamaich
THANX mamaich! That was exactly what I meant, however I still cannot find the download link...
My intention was to rebuild some of the SE ROM apps for WM2003 not SE.
THANX
buzz
Try here: http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/...c1-623b-481b-83b8-031129cf1594&DisplayLang=en
and here: http://msdn.microsoft.com/embedded/downloads/ce/
buzz_lightyear said:
My intention was to rebuild some of the SE ROM apps for WM2003 not SE.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
PB 4.2 does not have PocketPC 2003 SE BSPs. It contains only several native WinCE 4.2 applications. They can be recompiled, but would look ugly (for example look at this - http://mamaich.kasone.com/ppc/mspdfview.rar). And Platform Builder 5.0 does not have BSPs that produce ARM binaries. All configurations I've checked produced only THUMB code.
hey guys, I'm a career developer with tons of experience in a lot of things except PocketPC. I want to play around a bit with PPC, but would like to hear about the development platforms, languages, etc. that you're using and what you like about them. I don't know anybody personally that's even remotely interested.
I'm currently using VIsualStudio2005/C# for my day job, and am pondering whether that's a good fit for PPC. A lot of documentation exists for both managed and native PPC C# code. Managed code is more like the stuff I do all day.
What I've found so far is that managed code requires runtimes to be installed (already there on WM6 i hear), there's a noticeable delay when starting a managed program, and a lot of functions are missing from the .NetCF.
I'd probably be writing business apps (database stuff, web back-end client/server, etc.) as well as hacks like today plugins, utility programs, etc.
Should I just start right out with native coding, or try and hack away with managed code. What's your opinion?
roboHaxx,
As i'm sure you're already aware of, choice of language on this environment really depends on the application you're designing.
I tend to use Visual Studio/C# for applications that I need to develop rapidly where I'm not too concerned about load times. The .NetCF libraries really helps in ensuring things get done quicker but there's a tradeoff in speed and functionality but not by too much thanks to all the new spec devices that are coming out.
If I'm developing something that doesnt need to get done faster, and I need quick loading times (like today plugins for example), I tend to stick with C (evc4).
Personally I stay away from .NET and all related stuff like it was toxic waste.
As kunz wrote it is too slow for PPC (at least for now) and if you want to use the .NET CF 2 any user with a device prier to WM 6 (which is the majority for at least another year) will have to install 5MB worth of run time.
But there are some very nice apps made with CF already out there like Hitchhiker so it defiantly has its place.
One problem though: if you want to develop system components like today plugins, keyboards (SIP) or control panel applets you will need a component written in C / C++. All those are DLLs that the system expects to export certain functions. This can not be done with managed code, and as far as I know not at all in C#.
One final recommendation: look up all threads started by Vijay555.
He wrote a pretty good summary of programing tools and options for WM devices somewhere on this forum.
Thanks for the replies. I'm think I'm starting to get a grip on this platform.
Sounds like the same principles as programming on a PC. For business apps (like in my day job), the managed, quick-to-market environments like C#, .net and CF2 prevail. But for performance, versatility and access to everything, C is the way to go. C++ if you must.
by the way, I thnk you can create DLLs in any Visual Studio language. I do it all the time with C# and VB. Now whether these DLLs can export the functions that are needed in PPC, I don't know the answer to that.
kunz, you said
If I'm developing something that doesnt need to get done faster, and I need quick loading times (like today plugins for example), I tend to stick with C (evc4).
pardon the dumb question but, what is evc4? A compiler I presume. That was going to be my next question. Which compilers do you like?
eVC is eMbedded Visual C++ 4.0 its a free C++ IDE for Windows Mobile from Microsoft.
It is almost identical to VS 6 (if you are familiar with it).
It won't except WM 5 or 6 SDKs, but any program create on it (with WM 2003 SDKs) will run on any Smartphone or Pocket PC starting with WM 2003 through WM 6.
For older versions you will need eVC 3.
The following pages should provide some useful information:
http://channel9.msdn.com/wiki/default.aspx/MobileDeveloper.HomePage
http://www.pocketpcdn.com/tools/index.html
Enjoy!
Hi,
I am programmer but I'm new in mobile development too.
I have an ideal to write a program that can speak the caller number instead of ringtone. The problem is that I don't know how to get the receiving call events.
Can we solve this situation with .net compact framework?
Anyone have documents to share?
Thanks
I've been searching for hours and can't find the answer. I'm hoping someone here could help me out. I just started programming in C# and I'm trying to kill a process that already exists. I'm guessing I have to somehow do it via process name, but that's where the problems start. I've found a solution using System.Diagnositics.Process and a couple using WMI, however that function seems to only be in .NET 2.0.50727, and I don't think that applies to mobiles (please let me be wrong). I can easily start/stop another exe from with the program, just not one that the program hasn't started itself. Does anyone have a preferrably easy solution to this problem. If not, I'll gladly accept a complicated one.
Thanks.
http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/library/system.diagnostics.process.aspx
says
"Version Information
.NET Framework
Supported in: 3.0, 2.0, 1.1, 1.0
.NET Compact Framework
Supported in: 2.0"
Thanks Rudegar. That's some good info, however that class only works for processes created by the program. What I'm trying to do is kill a background process (or multiple instances ) that's already running. If I use this technique to create then close/kill the process, it creates a duplicate and closes that one, leaving the original process(es) running.
The functionality I'm looking for seems to be missing from the compact framework, so I'll probably need to use the WMI through a DLL in the OS (which I did to call for a soft reset), so I'll have to figure that one out.
EDIT: Looks like this class has a few other features I need to check out. I'll do that this afternoon as the golf gods are calling me right now
direct link is here
http://www.codeplex.com/MobilePE/SourceControl/DownloadSourceCode.aspx?changeSetId=11259
indirect link here, you need to download 11259
http://www.codeplex.com/MobilePE/SourceControl/ListDownloadableCommits.aspx
Sorry, can I request that you rename this thread to include the keywords "Kill Process"? Thanks!
Recently, i came across a binary file that ran on PC as well as Pocket PC. i cant quite get myself to recollect where i saw, but i do remember something like a 'pure .net' application.
i was wondering if someone could point me to a place where i could get more information about development of such a application.
Thanks
As you may know, PPC Binaries are ARM based (most of the time) and PC binaries are X86 code, so it shouldn't be possible to easily swap from one to the other.
BTW, .Net binaries (which differs from real binaries) are intended to run on whatever plateform, as long as there is a Common Language Runtime accessible.
So an application designed for the .Net Compact Framework should be able to run on the .Net Framework under Windows (with MSIL Code) .
'Hello world' application?
so could you possible send in a 'Hello world!' application of some sorts.. ?
foxenesys said:
So an application designed for the .Net Compact Framework should be able to run on the .Net Framework under Windows (with MSIL Code) .
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Confirmed. I did it.
However, I was unable to do it again recently. Maybe the application I succesfully wrote and ran on both the PC and the PPC was made using the .NET Compact Framework v1, while the applications I write actually use the v2.
Lieutenant said:
Confirmed. I did it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
what project was it? what did the application actually do? how was it developed??
Here's some information: http://msdn.microsoft.com/msdnmag/issues/07/07/ShareCode/default.aspx
The app was indeed likely a .NET (Compact) application, it will run on any device that has the .NET Compact framework installed (most older phones have v1 (WM5), my Kaiser has v2 installed(WM6)). Note that if you start writing like that, you will most likely be writing for v2, and for a large number of PPC that means the user will also still have to install .NET Compact Framework v2 which may take up to 25mb.
Though the idea behind .NET is nice, and on PC's there's hardly a noticable different between a natively compiled application and a .NET application, on a PPC you do really notice the difference. The .NET apps are very noticable slower in operation and slower in load and take more memory than the natively compiled apps. On the other hand, they usually are only a few KB in size, but that's because all the magic happens in the .NET Compact Framework which is a seperate install (comes preloaded with WM6).
Also, when developing with .NET Compact Framework I have also noticed it is very limited, compared to the normal .NET Framework, and even more limited compared to native applications.
Personally, I use the FreePascal compiler (which can create binaries for pretty much every platform out there, from Windows to Linux to Windows Mobile to Nintendo DS)
Chainfire said:
Personally, I use the FreePascal compiler (which can create binaries for pretty much every platform out there, from Windows to Linux to Windows Mobile to Nintendo DS)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But it wont compile a same binary file that will run on x86 architecture and ARM architecture will it..?
what i had in mind was a application when run on my PDA will act as a normal application and when the same file was opened on my desktop computer will run like a normal win32 application, without throwing the '... not a valid Win32 application' error.
tomjan said:
But it wont compile a same binary file that will run on x86 architecture and ARM architecture will it..?
what i had in mind was a application when run on my PDA will act as a normal application and when the same file was opened on my desktop computer will run like a normal win32 application, without throwing the '... not a valid Win32 application' error.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Indeed you would need two different executables for it my way, but IMHO compared to your slower, less responsive and more limited version that only needs one executable it is still a much better option.
Chainfire said:
Indeed you would need two different executables for it my way, but IMHO compared to your slower, less responsive and more limited version that only needs one executable it is still a much better option.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Peace...
the point is, there could be scenarios where a cross platform application could be helpful even though it might suffer from serious perfromance issues.
like offhandedly, if you consider PIMBackup application, if if had the ability to display the backedup file on your PDA and your PC, viola.. the phone could act like a 'Portable' outlook, with no requirement of active sync to be installed.
all said and done.. this is no an argument about native vs. .net, because i have NO experience at all with mobile application development. just thought it was cool to be able to run a a same file on two entirely different architectures / platforms / blah blah...
Thanks
Rhapsody said:
Here's some information: http://msdn.microsoft.com/msdnmag/issues/07/07/ShareCode/default.aspx
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks Rhapsody, this should keep me occupied for some time.
Just a quick question.... I have installed .Net 3.5 and things work as expected.. however in the reg it reads as attached below.....
Am I right in thinking that 3.5 isn't active?
Thanks
only the library itself is important, in this case all dll's of 3.5, if you installed cf3.5 than every app will work as it should. it doesn't matter what key is set on 1 or 0. I don't know their exact purpose but who's active and who's not its not relevant in this context.
Thank you... Understanding now...