Hi guys. I see a lot of "finger friendly" contact managers apps theese days.
Which API are you using ? I'm planning to work on it for sms reading and any help would be great.
Hi,
Personally, for contact manager, I'm working on ... my own framework, but that's mostly to allow decent performance and animation effects.
Basically it's a composite pattern, every control is based on LightControl base class which provide basic interraction and drawing.
The drawback of this approach is that text input control are rather complex to do, the big advantage is that layout, drawing are free are control aren't tight in a specific shape.
What are your requirements?
Hi, I'm working on .NET 2005 (usually VB but I also have knowledges of C) and I'm developing for a Prophet and a Trinity
yes.. but what are your requirement regarding the framework? what do you want to do that classic winforms won't provide you?
Hello developers,
What is your favorite application and GUI framework for Windows Mobile development? I have played a little with different options, and I'd like to get your opinion on it as well.
As far as I can tell, here are the options:
Win32:
+: Small executable files, small memory footprint, very fast startup
-: Archaic and terrible API. Not object-oriented. A pain to work with
ATL:
+: Same as Win32: small files, small footprint and very fast startup. Object-oriented-ish Win32 wrapper
-: Not too well documented. Seems to be more targeted towards making redistributable GUI components. Almost as painful as Win32
MFC:
+: Extensive object-oriented API. Provides a better UI framework than Win32.
-: Big and bloated. Executables get bigger than with Win32 and ATL. Although it's designed to be oo, it's still archaic and rather painful.
.NET:
+: Modern, well-design and well-documented API. Lowest development time. The assemblies can be ran and unit-tested on the PC during development.
-: Depends on the .NET runtime to be loaded, and startup time is therefore at minimum 2 seconds. No or poor access to hardware-near features like DirectDraw.
Do not forget Wrapper Libraries around win32.
Like PPL: www.arianesoft.ca.
Nor java, for that matter
In any case, it really depends on what you want to do. I've actually used a combination of all three "main" environments (that is, ATL is taken out of the equation... It's really an old one which should NOT be used for new development).
Oh, and native functions can be called from .NET too, just like you'd do a pinvoke on any win9x dll.
CmdKewin said:
Do not forget Wrapper Libraries around win32.
Like PPL: www.arianesoft.ca.
Nor java, for that matter
In any case, it really depends on what you want to do. I've actually used a combination of all three "main" environments (that is, ATL is taken out of the equation... It's really an old one which should NOT be used for new development).
Oh, and native functions can be called from .NET too, just like you'd do a pinvoke on any win9x dll.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks, I didn't know about PPL. I'll have a closer look on that one.
I know that native functions can be called using PInvoke. I've been using that for simple things like playing sounds. However, as far as I have understood, it's not possible to use for example DirectDraw in your own custom GUI components.
Have you actually used Win32 AND .NET in the same project? I thought interop was impossible on mobile devices?
jahnotto said:
Thanks, I didn't know about PPL. I'll have a closer look on that one.
I know that native functions can be called using PInvoke. I've been using that for simple things like playing sounds. However, as far as I have understood, it's not possible to use for example DirectDraw in your own custom GUI components.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, i'm not so sure it's "impossible". I actually agree it would be pointless (too slow to be of any use): just find a good pocket PC native engine (I don't have any link atm).
jahnotto said:
Have you actually used Win32 AND .NET in the same project? I thought interop was impossible on mobile devices?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually, it's one of the features introduced with .NET CF 2.0
CmdKewin said:
Actually, it's one of the features introduced with .NET CF 2.0
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Aaah! Cool!
jahnotto said:
-: Archaic and terrible API. Not object-oriented. A pain to work with
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
While the API itself isn't OO, but your app using it can be such
ATL & MFC: I wouldn't touch them even with a looong stick
.NET:
You're right, it gives you a nice API, but at the costs.
Generally, you should choose your way with every app you're starting with - the choice should be dependent on what your project is for.
I have to disagree with jahnotto on the original assessment:
Win32: First there is nothing "archaic" about it. These are pure APIs that give you full access to your system so as long as you are using Win32 OS you have to go through them one way or the other. It is C++ language that provides object orientation support and there is noting stopping you from creating your own classes that take full use of the API.
(Yes this is my favorite method of developing because it is gives you the fastest and cleanest binaries)
ATL: I heard good things about it, but did not get the chance to use it. However, it is just pre-written code. You are still writing using Win32 but some nice people went and coded some classes in advance for you.
Thats the one and only difference between it and "pure Win32".
MFC: Its very similar to ATL - just a bunch of classes that wrap APIs but its much balkier and poorly documented. It is useful if you need to make some quick tool with little code and a single dialog but not something you want to use for a serious program.
.NET: Here is my biggest disagreement with the thread starter - simply because he sees a positive side to it
Yes, .NET saves time for development but:
- Running .NET app on PC without emulator though possible will not give you proper indication of how this app will function on a PPC so its pointless.
- Because it need the .NET CF it takes a lot more memory then it should when running.
-The poor access is not only to "hardware near" features. You can't even make simple things like today plugins, keyboards or control panel applets without using native code components.
- I have yet to see a "well documented" MS product.
In short my general opinion on the .NET is that the devices are just not powerful enough yet to allow such wasteful programs plus they severely limit the developer on what parts of the device / OS he can utilize control.
Hi all
Thanks to this fantastic community, my WM6 user experience has considerably improved in the past few months; the only thing which tickles me a little is that there does not seem to be any project for a finger friendly, nicely animated E-mail client application.
Now google led me to this great article about the MAPI library, which provides an extended wrapper taking care of most of the functionalities of an e-mail client, not standalone per-say, but as kind of a proxy for outlook (i.e. pocket outlook). Now the good news is that the library supports C++, .NET and... the .net compact framework (with a little tweaking)!
http://www.codeproject.com/KB/IP/CMapiEx.aspx
I've tested it in Windows forms as well as in the .NETCF and it is really good.
Now the problem is that in .NET, I have no idea how to create finger-friendly forms.. I can recognize gestures to flip from one form to another, but the native controls themselves are ugly and not really customizable. They look really poor vs. the fantastic scrollable lists used by Chad, Tene etc. As for the animations, that's no problem.
So here are the questions:
- Anybody heard about 3rd party open source .netCF components such as listboxes, datagrids etc which support a high level of formatting, or native finger scrolling handling?
- If not, do we have any C++ developer here who could maybe take advantage of this library, or at least have a quick look?
Cheers
Smooth List box
Check out
http://www.codeproject.com/KB/list/SmoothListBox.aspx
I'm using it in a mixed c#/vb .net 2005 project, works like a champ. . .
the only thing I'd recommend is to use doublebuffering on any images, as they tend to flicker when you scroll.
If you have a compiled version of cemapi that'll work in cf2.0 let me know, I've been killing myself to find a control that will do a synchronize (like "Microsoft.WindowsMobile.PocketOutlook.MessagingApplication.Synchronize()") without actually launching the messaging app.
The only thing I've found so far is the mobile in the hand. . .but they want $300 for it. No more community edition in 3.0 (and the 2.0 community edition doesn't have synchronizing anyhow)
I am interested in dabbling a little in programming for my Kaiser. I have programming experience, mainly php / mysql, though I have done some C and lots of scripting in my time. My biggest project so far though was an open source google maps mod to put on your website - thousands of lines of php / js code, mysql backend and AJAX tieing it together, some graphics routines etc, so I am no drooling n00b when it comes to coding.
How easy is it to develop basic stuff in WM?
I have access to MSDN, so I can get Visual Studio (2005 for sure, maybe later versions), so I think I have access to the apps I would need. I just ordered some books to help me along, but was wondering if I would likely face a steep learning curve.
All the stuff I want to do is today screen plugins - was thinking of having a bash at writing my own quick contacts plugin - *very* basic - just a vertically scrolling list of names over a transparent PNG button with maybe photos from the address book - I want it to be able to scroll by vertical gesture within an ultimatelaunch tab - is this likely to be quite easy and quite a good "first app" to program?
I was also looking at writing a lite repacement for phoneweaver as the only feature I use is to turn on BT when it detects power but no activesync (ie auto turn on BlueTooth when I am in the car and the device is cradled) - maybe a hack to force the keyboard backlight on in the same situation.
I have bought:
Microsoft® Visual C#® 2005 Step by Step (Microsoft)
Microsoft® Mobile Development Handbook [Paperback] by A. Wigley; Daniel... (Microsoft)
Comments / suggestions?
I would also be very interested in a thread or good reference on how to start to program app for mobile gadgets. Actually i'm a Delphi coder, and i would like to implement some applications on WM platform, but when i search over internet there's plenty of information, but no usefull information with "real-life" recomendations.
depend on the platform and language one wish to use really
there is c#.net, vb.net c++.net
c++ miniMFC, c++ PureWin32 sdk
oldVB
...
here are some other posts asking pretty much the same thing from the forum
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=225405&highlight=programming
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=237932&highlight=programming
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=241670&highlight=programming
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=245426&highlight=programming
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=228043&highlight=programming
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=317913&highlight=programming
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=302548&highlight=programming
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=327164&highlight=programming
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=305926&highlight=programming
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=336251&highlight=programming
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=226412&highlight=programming
codeguru.com got examples of various windows mobile programs too today items and such
about delphi i dont know if anybody got some info i would say borlands site
Thanks rud. I was aware of various other posts, but my question was more of a "How steep is the learning curve?" rather than "How do you do it?".
There was also an element of "How do you do it?" insofar as there seem to be better or worse ways of going about various kinds of app (eg today apps with gesture support) which I am finding a bit of a minefield, but I feel that the new post was valid because I am giving an indication of my experience level and what I am trying to acheive - none of the posts you listed cover the combination of stuff I am trying to do. Reqs like pulling from outlook db and allowing gesture scrolling in a today plugin, I dunno, I may waste ages with C#, for example, only to realise it is a breeze with C++... I also note that a google search for wm programming gesture scroll today screen currently ranks this very thread #5. By tomorrow that'll be a googlewhack then.
Yes, there are various posts about how to get started, but I think maybe a sticky would be in order with a bit of info on the various paths - the vb/c++/c# options are quite bewildering - stuff like
levenum said:
Your question is mainly a matter of personal preference.
Here is my opinion on C++ vs. C#:
C++ advantages:
- Native code is faster than .NET
- Easier access to Win32 APIs
- Ability to write system components like keyboards and today plugins.
C# advantages:
- Saves on coding time
- Allows use of many .NET CF components to quickly accomplish complex tasks.
Please note that I am bias. I hate .NET and want nothing to o with it. Specially on mobile devices that do not have the processing power to spare for the .NET overhead.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
is really useful, maybe if it were expanded upon, info such as for this route you need visual studio, etc, etc it would make a really good sticky for the dev section.
evilc said:
I am interested in dabbling a little in programming for my Kaiser. I have programming experience, mainly php / mysql, though I have done some C and lots of scripting in my time. My biggest project so far though was an open source google maps mod to put on your website - thousands of lines of php / js code, mysql backend and AJAX tieing it together, some graphics routines etc, so I am no drooling n00b when it comes to coding.
How easy is it to develop basic stuff in WM?
I have access to MSDN, so I can get Visual Studio (2005 for sure, maybe later versions), so I think I have access to the apps I would need. I just ordered some books to help me along, but was wondering if I would likely face a steep learning curve.
All the stuff I want to do is today screen plugins - was thinking of having a bash at writing my own quick contacts plugin - *very* basic - just a vertically scrolling list of names over a transparent PNG button with maybe photos from the address book - I want it to be able to scroll by vertical gesture within an ultimatelaunch tab - is this likely to be quite easy and quite a good "first app" to program?
I was also looking at writing a lite repacement for phoneweaver as the only feature I use is to turn on BT when it detects power but no activesync (ie auto turn on BlueTooth when I am in the car and the device is cradled) - maybe a hack to force the keyboard backlight on in the same situation.
I have bought:
Microsoft® Visual C#® 2005 Step by Step (Microsoft)
Microsoft® Mobile Development Handbook [Paperback] by A. Wigley; Daniel... (Microsoft)
Comments / suggestions?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hey!
Congrats on getting your hands on with Windows Mobile...
The easiest way is to download Visual Studio 2005(2008 You have it on MSDN) - and create a new application with it.
It's sooo easy if you know your object oriented programming, as long as you want to create ordinary "office" applications... But if you want to do more advanced things(like creating a today-plugin) you need to go over to c++(even though you can download a .net home-plugin-container which acts like a "loader" for your plugin written in c++) - and also, if you want to create good GUIs, I think you are better off with c++... But then again, I think you need a bit more effort in learning c++ then using c#...
Hope this helps...
Still slogging my way thru this...
I got hold of an MSDN disc, first off I installed visual studio 6 - bad move.
Had to uninstall before trying to install VS 2005, now I think it has screwed something up, every time I try and create a "Smart Device Win32" project, I get a "Project creation failed" error. I may have to re-GHOST my OS to get rid of it
So much time just finding out what apps I need and what options to choose to start a project...
I found http://channel9.msdn.com/wiki/default.aspx/MobileDeveloper.HomePage which seems helpful
Thanks for responses!
Evilc, you link of msdn is excellent point, many thanks!
I have also just started programming in C++ ..i dnt have any knowledge of any type of codes..i learned every thing frm MSDN libraries ( i have many many of them caz i have VS 2006 VS 2005 and VS 2008 )..i recommend you to work with C++ because it uses less system resources and is fast..hope this helps..check out my Kitchen coded in C++ ( link in signature )
Yeah, I think C++ is definately more what I am looking for from what I have learned thus far.
Re-Ghosted OS - totally fresh XP SP2, installed Visual Studio 2005, still the same error. GRRR!
Visual C++ --> Smart Device --> Win32 Smart Device Project == "Project Creation Failed"
Other Languages --> Visual C# --> Smart Device --> Windows CE 5.0 --> Device Application == Project created OK.
Some posts I have found on the net say it is an IE7 issue, I may try uninstalling that or flashing back to an OS image with IE6 only, but this is really winding me up and taking a *lot* of my time...
I uninstalled IE7 and the problem went away. Woohoo!!
starting programming windows mobile
hello
1. see my web site.
2. see my book recommendations, especially the 'programming windows ce' by douglas boling. It has an example for many things and a today sample too. Most is based on visual c++ 3.0/4.0. Embedded Visual C 4 can be loaded free of charge at ms.
regards
josef
Nice site, thanks.
The windows mobile 6 sdk actually has a today screen sample, along with samples of most of the things I need to do.
neofix said:
It's sooo easy if you know your object oriented programming, as long as you want to create ordinary "office" applications... But if you want to do more advanced things(like creating a today-plugin) you need to go over to c++(even though you can download a .net home-plugin-container which acts like a "loader" for your plugin written in c++) - and also, if you want to create good GUIs, I think you are better off with c++... But then again, I think you need a bit more effort in learning c++ then using c#...
Hope this helps...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Are we using the same language?? Cos this (C++ Win32 for Mobile Devices) is by far and above the most difficult programming language to get into that I have ever tried. Yes, worse than ASM.
Trying to code an app that prints "Hello World" has taken me over 5 hours with no success yet - most languages I have a go at it's 5 minutes.
From http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms901121.aspx :
Code:
int DrawText(
HDC hDC,
LPCTSTR lpString,
int nCount,
LPRECT lpRect,
UNIT uFormat
);
It gives a brief description of what the parameters are, but absolutely no examples and no explanation of what all the parameters do or how to initialize them, so even browsing an example is no use to me.
u can simply try
MessageBox::Show(" your message ");
ather90 said:
u can simply try
MessageBox::Show(" your message ");
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Isn't that .NET ?
I thought the consensus was that Native Win32 or whatever it is called was the better way to go?
This is part of the problem. I cannot even work out what to put in a search engine to pull out info on the right "flavour" of C and for the pocketpc. It's *so* bewildering.
Hello evilc.
First I noticed you have some trouble with VS 2005. It probably won't be easy now, but if you ever get to format your machine again don't install it (unless you absolutely need some other features).
For C / C++ programming for WM device I strongly recommend eVC 4 as it is much lighter and responds quicker. (It's a free download as well)
Second, though you can program for WM in C# and VB .NET which are both .NET Object based languages and are probably much closer in form to PHP and Java then C, you can not write system components such as today plugins in those languages.
You need native code so C / C++ is the only way to go.
(Actually, there is a trick to combine C# and C++ DLLs to create a today plugin where C# will do the main stuff, but its pretty complicated)
What you need is to learn basic Win32 programming and using the windows API. They are almost identical for Windows Mobile and Desktop windows versions so any book on Win32 should teach you the basics.
(Personally I started with MS book on MFC and studio 6 but I would not recommend it)
Finally:
I would gladly explain the parameters of DrawText but I am not quite clear on how much familiarity you have with the Win32 mechanics, since the languages you are used to obscure them unlike C which gives you extra power but also makes you work much harder to get anything done.
Do you know how to handle messages, and how windows manages all abjects using handles? Any familiarity with GDI?
If not, it will be pretty difficult to explain.
levenum said:
Hello evilc.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hello! <waves>
First I noticed you have some trouble with VS 2005. It probably won't be easy now, but if you ever get to format your machine again don't install it (unless you absolutely need some other features).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I tracked down the problem when I got home and installed on my desktop. When doing it on the laptop, whilst installing SP1 for studio 2005, I had hit "Not Now" to a reboot request and it had said installation failed. When I installed SP1 on my desktop and said "Yes" to the reboot request, the problem went away, so I guess it was fixed in SP1 but the installer is a bit picky.
For C / C++ programming for WM device I strongly recommend eVC 4 as it is much lighter and responds quicker. (It's a free download as well)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wish I had that advice before as I wasted a day messing around with an MSDN CD, trying to work out what to install and what not. So does the eVC 4 download include an IDE? If not, what do you use?
Second, though you can program for WM in C# and VB .NET which are both .NET Object based languages and are probably much closer in form to PHP and Java then C, you can not write system components such as today plugins in those languages.
You need native code so C / C++ is the only way to go.
(Actually, there is a trick to combine C# and C++ DLLs to create a today plugin where C# will do the main stuff, but its pretty complicated)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You don't have to tell me twice to avoid the bloatware ****e
What you need is to learn basic Win32 programming and using the windows API. They are almost identical for Windows Mobile and Desktop windows versions so any book on Win32 should teach you the basics.
(Personally I started with MS book on MFC and studio 6 but I would not recommend it)
Finally:
I would gladly explain the parameters of DrawText but I am not quite clear on how much familiarity you have with the Win32 mechanics, since the languages you are used to obscure them unlike C which gives you extra power but also makes you work much harder to get anything done.
Do you know how to handle messages, and how windows manages all abjects using handles? Any familiarity with GDI?
If not, it will be pretty difficult to explain.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No GDI Experience. I take it this would be the library of choice for drawing the screen of a today screen app? Stuff like the HTC Home clock or the new Face Contacts - they would likely use Native C++ and GDI? Doesnt strike me as something you would do with a form.
Also, anyone got the skinny on vertically scrolling by click-and-drag inside a today screen app? Just a case of enabling a parameter? Has to be coded manually? Best way to do it smoothly? If you have seen the Conduits Pocket Player 3.x browse list - how it "eases in" and "eases out" at the ends of the list, has inertia so you can "flick" down the list, the alphabetical bar instead of the regular scroll bar - is that all coded manually or is there an api or something that can help?
Thanks for the help!
I just noticed your apps in your sig - checked out LVM time - noticed there was source - wooohoo! I generally pick these things up by example.
All that code just for a (configurable) clock on one line - wow. Great though, a really good example of a today app - minimal enough in functions so it is easier to suss how it all slots together, but full featured enough (implimented example of an options screen - yay!) to show how to do various things.
And Gnu as well! Nice, this will be the basis of my first test project too I think - at least now I have a framework to test out what I want to do and how to go about it without having to work out how to code the basis of the application.
I thank you from the bottom of my heart sir.
I tried to build it in VS2005, but I got a
fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'todaycmn.h': No such file or directory
A quick google search showed todaycmn.h was part of the SDK, I found the file, dropped it into the headers section of the project, but no joy. I will probs just try eVC.
Oh, and having developed a today plugin, maybe you can answer this one:
As far as I can tell so far, debugging isn't very easy with a today app - something to do with the fact that the dll is not releasable? Is this an issue I will come up against? I hope its not a case of "reinstalling" the app each time you want to test... I was thinking maybe along the lines of have it as a normal app for debugging, then make it a today plugin when you want to build to use it?
I dunno, probably trying to run before I can walk, my books shoulda been here today, oh well. Sorry for all the questions...
@evilc:
Are you using standard Win32 or MFC?
You may want to try using MFC since you get the flexibility of native development but with some nice class libraries that make your life easier.
As for click and drag behavior, that is usually implemented by handling the WM_LBUTTONDOWN, WM_LBUTTONUP and WM_MOUSEMOVE.
When you get wm_lbuttondown you set a flag that says the user is dragging. You use wm_mousemove to update the stylus position as long as this flag is set, then you unset it on wm_lbuttonup.
That's the basic idea anyway. Someone made a post about gesture recognition in this forum a few weeks ago with sample code. You should see if you can find that.
Managed Today Screen plugins
See:
http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms839442.aspx
for some background on the concept.
And:
http://www.christec.co.nz/blog/archives/279
Outlines what I think is a very ingenius technique for managed today screen plugins.
For those of you that want an easy way to make a today screen app in c#. Chris did all the C++ work for you.
Also I forgot to mention that the SDK samples cover all most every application type you can think of. Most of the good ones are Win32 though.
Also, keep in mind that you can use P/Invoke from your C# apps to call native APIs. So don't let people tell you you need to use C++ just because you can access more api's. I will say that you should use C++ for games, or other apps that require high speed or advanced GUI's (it is VERY hard to do interesting gui techniques with C# and interop, trust me).
And finally, I would highly recommend using the most recent version of visual studio you can get (especially if you're using vista), unless your machine can't handle a newer version. I say so because visual studio gets more and more powerful as an editor with each new iteration and I personally can't go back after I get used to the new features they introduce. And the new versions are almost necessary if you're going to do .net development.