Related
SKTools tests:
Integer;325.4344;Moves/25 usec
Floating point;6.517;MWIPS
RAM access;459;Speed index
Draw bitmaps;570;Speed index
Main storage (write);1503.67;KB/sec
Main storage (read);5120.00;KB/sec
Storage Card (write); 260.04;KB/sec
Storage Card (read);7366.91;KB/sec
Tests Explained:
- Integer: Comparable to other MSM7201a devices and in SKTools listed as one of the fastest.
Only faster devices are Touch HD2 and Samsungs OmniaII, scoreing 813 and 530 respectivly, showing what we already knew, the new generation of ARM's is quite a bit faster.
- Floating Point: Okish with only new CPU's being much faster (HD2 is 5x faster in FPU operations.)
- RAM Access: REDICULOUSLY SLOW, but exactly the same as all other MSM7201a devices. But scoring just around old 200Mhz device speeds. There are PXA2xx based devices with a RAS from 4x that of what our MSM7201a's show to 20x that speed.
- Draw Bitmaps: Okish compared to other MSM devices, but way slower then Intel PXA's and even the HD2 is only 2ce as fast. (PXA's go up to 3x-4x as fast, Omnia 1 and Omnia 2 being nice examples.)
-Main Storage (Write): Here is where it gets interesting and clear something is funky as hell, either the HD has ****ty ROM chips or the interface in Windows Mobile is messed up. There are devices scoring from 2x to 10x the speed the HD does and some of them (notably the Diamond and Sony X1i which are MSM72xx devices) are 10x faster.
-Main Storage (Read): Same as with Write, slow as ****, the Diamond scores 3x the Diamond, same for X1i, with the HD2 surprisingly being able to read its internal storage at 64MB/s! Our HD's around 5MB/s, pitifull, even a Class 2 SD reads 2ce that easily.
- Storage Card (write): I ran this test a billion times and found the score going from 50KB/s to 500KB/s but never higher. There is a serious problem here, I use class 6 SDHC's of several sizes and all of them score very low. The SD interface is slow as hell which I'm certain is a software / driver problem, because I've tested some drivers from other devices, which worked mindbendingly fast.
As you can see, Ram, Internal Storage and SD speed are all lacking extremely.
Compared to other devices (notably, even the Diamond) its quite ridiculous how slow the HD's internal storage really is.
I propose taking a new approach to speeding things up, most other projects so far have been about tweaking graphics drivers, to offload graphics to more optimized routines, streamlining roms, etc etc.
I propose we start looking for ways to get Ram, Internal storage and SD storage speeds up to par with other devices. That is, if its not all limited to hell by substandard hardware. Which would piss me of even more, since the HD is the most expensive phone HTC had at the time and way cheaper devices like the Diamond score much much better.
A few weeks ago, I tested a driver for the SD Interface in Windows Mobile and overal, read and write for the SD were boosted to phenomenal levels, Class 6 cards were actually worth using (while the above results show a class 2 card doesn't even get used right)
Problem was that after a while I was experiencing data corruption on the SD card, mostly after syncing the phone with Outlook to my Exchange account and getting several thousands of small files on there.
I cleaned the card and did the sync again and the same corruption happend.
My tests with big files (MP3's and AVI's) showed no corruption.
So, I'm at least sure that SD speed can be improved quite seriously. And seeing there are devices like the Diamond, which have a lot of the same hardware the HD does, internal storage should be possible to be boosted quite a bit too.
RAM is weird and I don't really see how it can be so bad because of software alone. Did HTC really set us up with ****ty ram chips there? I don't know.
So yeah, anyone with me to explore the storage area to improve the HD's speed?
Edit: TL;DR VERSION: 128 of that 512 megs of RAM in ur Epic is leet special-sawce Samsung RAM that pwns other RAMs, and makes ur GPU make moar trianglez in ur gamez.
Forgive me folks, I'm lazy, so I'm posting this more or less verbatim from what I posted in my blog, with a few minor tweaks. It's long and probably boring, so you have my apologies in advance.
Despite my efforts to pull myself away from ARM architecture, Android, and specifically, the mysteries surrounding the Hummingbird processor, I can never really extract myself. One of these days I'll get around to obsessing over something else (hopefully career-related) but until then, I'll let you know what I think I've uncovered as the solution to how Samsung solved the GPU bandwidth issue (which I puzzled over in my original Hummingbird vs. Snapdragon article.)
There have been a few opportunities where I've had to step in and correct people when they post that a Galaxy S phone has only ~320 megs of RAM. It's an error I see made frequently when people use Android system info applications that can only see the 320 megs of volatile memory, despite the fact that the phone does actually contain 512 megs of RAM. We see it happen every time a new Galaxy S phone is leaked, even the Nexus S.
The explanation for this has always been that a certain amount of memory have been "reserved" by Samsung for the Android OS, and that memory is not visible nor available to applications. Despite this, I've never been able to figure out exactly how the system provides the 12.6 GB/sec of memory bandwidth it (theoretically) needs to push out 90 million triangles/sec with the PowerVR SGX540 GPU.
I'm not quite sure how it happened, but in my meanderings across the interwebs, I ran across the following image on ODROID.com of the block diagram of the S5PC110 that they use for their developer board.
(Edit: Image-Shacked... ODROID didn't appreciate me hot-linking their image. Whoops. Use the ODROID.com link above to see the original.)
Careful observation of the POP (Package-On-Package, or "Stacked" circuits) module on the left-hand side shows 384 MB of LPDDR1 and 128MB of OneDRAM, a term I'd noticed on S5PC110 documentation on the list of supported technologies. I'd assumed that it wasn't used. I'd already determined that even though the Hummingbird supports LPDDR2, it only supports it at 400 Mbps transfer rate (which LPDDR1 is capable of) and, with an x32 bus, only allows for 1.6 GBps data bandwidth, a far cry from the 12.6 GBps needed.
So what is this OneDRAM? According to Samsung, "OneDRAM is a fusion memory chip that, can significantly increase the data processing speed between a communications processor and a media processor in mobile devices," and, "...this results resulting in a five-fold increase in the speed of cellular phone and gaming console operations, longer battery life and slimmer handset designs." (Sic.)
Hear hear! 5 times 1.6 GBps still doesn't equal 12.6, but the 12.6 number is a something I arrived at using a lot of assumptions (4.2 GBps bandwidth needed by the PowerVR SGX540 to perform 28 million triangles per second, multiplied times 3 to make ~90 million triangles per second). I'm satisfied that the OneDRAM is that holy grail memory I've been looking for.
Now, how to prove that it actually exists inside my Epic 4G? Remember, the S5PC110 Hummingbird doesn't come with memory built-in; that's something that gets stacked on when the phone is built. The ODROID guys could very well be using a completely different configuration; though that ~320 megs showing up over and over in Android system info apps hardly seems like a coincidence, assuming the difference between 384 and 320 is actually reserved memory for the OS' own system applications. The OneDRAM on the other hand would be reserved primarily for hardware use, such as the GPU as Samsung earlier suggested.
I turned to one of my Android developer acquaintences, noobnl of xda-developers.com. When I showed him what I've run across, (hoping to see if he'd heard of this before, as he has a good handle on Epic hardware) he told me that I had made a good find. He also pasted some kernel code that clearly referenced OneDRAM, proving that the Epic 4G contains this technology.
So there you go folks. The secret is out. The Galaxy S phones are likely able to achieve such amazing graphics performance via a 128 MB Samsung-proprietary high-speed hybrid memory solution. The remaining 384 megs of memory is plain-jane LPDDR1. The total is the promised 512 megs, and honestly, I wouldn't trade the OneDRAM for 128 megs more of LPDDR1 available application memory, but it's interesting how Samsung has kept the OneDRAM solution so quiet. It's likely enjoying the current GPU supremacy of the Galaxy S phones, unfortunately come Cortex-A9, LPDDR2 memory (> 400 Mbps), and dual-channel memory controllers, they will be back on a level playing field. Who could blame them for setting aside Orion and picking up NVIDIA's Tegra 2 SoCs for their next-gen smartphones? It's a fast-moving industry out there, particularly when you don't have Intrinsity any longer as your ace-in-the-hole. Curse you, Apple.
PS - Some of you guys on here know more about this **** than I do. Please feel free to offer suggestions, corrections, and jeers. Though I'm hoping for less of the latter.
Dude what?
Sent from my SGH-T959D using XDA App
Mannnnnnn ....I had a hunch it worked like that
thanks for clearing this up Im glad im not the only one that figured this out!
Are you not compensating for TBDR memory efficiency?
Interesting. Could also complicate porting newer Android versions, at least wih the same efficiency.
I pretend I understood all that you said..and say...Voila..FINALLY!
Yeah I've seen documentation saying the Galaxy S phones have 4Gb of RAM. 1Gb of which is OneDRAM and 3Gb is LPDDR (Idk version). Now, tell us why ODROID and the block diagram can do 1080p and we can't.
EDIT:
thephawx said:
Are you not compensating for TBDR memory efficiency?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I just pulled my information from some raw data about the Intel GMA500 (which is an SGX540 disguised as Intel) running at 200 MHz. I would assume the 4.2 GB/s bandwidth needed assumes TBDR is being used.
It's a shaky line of reasoning though. Wish I had some more hard data on the SGX540, and more specifically, the clock rate it runs at in the Epic.
arashed31 said:
Yeah I've seen documentation saying the Galaxy S phones have 4Gb of RAM. 1Gb of which is OneDRAM and 3Gb is LPDDR (Idk version). Now, tell us why ODROID and the block diagram can do 1080p and we can't.
EDIT:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, I could swear I've seen those numbers somewhere but I can't for the life of me find it.
As for the 1080p, that's a good catch; interesting. And, now that I look closer, WiFi doesn't have N support, though I suppose it's possible they used a different WiFi chip.
delete, double post.
Interesting...I guess it makes sense somewhat...though with that much processing why would they then set an FPS limit? is it suppose to be their way of saving energy?
As for 1080p..we have specifications for it..If i were to guess we just don't have the proper drivers...video decoding is done via the ARM Neon..so if anything 1080p would play slow..but it doesn't play at all...so its either locked out intentionally..or the driver is not configured to...I mean it can handle 720p at [email protected] reason why it can't handle 1080p at lower settings...
Wow.. My brains are like oh my gawds!
Interesting tho
Sent from my SPH-D700 using Tapatalk
Another thing. If you look at the Bluetooth certification site you'll see the Samsung Epic is certified for Bluetooth 3.0. Even though the chip in there is a Broadcomm chip that only supports Wireless N and Bluetooth 3.0.
gTen said:
Interesting...I guess it makes sense somewhat...though with that much processing why would they then set an FPS limit? is it suppose to be their way of saving energy?
As for 1080p..we have specifications for it..If i were to guess we just don't have the proper drivers...video decoding is done via the ARM Neon..so if anything 1080p would play slow..but it doesn't play at all...so its either locked out intentionally..or the driver is not configured to...I mean it can handle 720p at [email protected] reason why it can't handle 1080p at lower settings...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Video decoding is on the processor? WHAT. THE. HELL. SAMSUNG.
Sounds like you did your homework, i'll buy it. Thanks for sharing. I'll take the fast vid over ram too
tmuka said:
Sounds like you did your homework, i'll buy it. Thanks for sharing. I'll take the fast vid over ram too
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Homework, yes... but I'd really like to see an ARM engineer affirm it.
gTen said:
Interesting...I guess it makes sense somewhat...though with that much processing why would they then set an FPS limit? is it suppose to be their way of saving energy?
As for 1080p..we have specifications for it..If i were to guess we just don't have the proper drivers...video decoding is done via the ARM Neon..so if anything 1080p would play slow..but it doesn't play at all...so its either locked out intentionally..or the driver is not configured to...I mean it can handle 720p at [email protected] reason why it can't handle 1080p at lower settings...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, I just actually took a look at the S5PC110 User Manual and sure enough, 1080p encoding / decoding at 30 FPS is showing supported on the block diagram:
"1080p 30 fps MFC
Codec H.263/H.264/MPEG4
Decoder MPEG2/VC-1/Divx"
But then, directly below the block diagram, the following is shown:
"Multi Format Codec provides encoding and decoding of MPEG-4/H.263/H.264 up to [email protected] and
decoding of MPEG-2/VC1/Divx video up to [email protected] fps"
That's an odd discrepancy, particularly for an official Samsung processor owner's manual.
Also worth mentioning is that that manual makes no mention of OneDRAM in the memory subsystem breakdown where OneNAND, LPDDR1, LPDDR2, and DDR2 support are outlined, however, it's clearly listed as a supported memory type in the block diagram, and later throughout the manual. Hmm.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App
http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-Crucial-M4-128GB-2-5-SATA-III-Solid-State-Drive-SSD-/150866835241
Seen this and it looked like a realy good deal. 88.99 with free shipping
Product Description
Get the superior performance of a solid state drive with the Crucial Technology CT128M4SSD2 SSD. The Crucial Technology SSD has read speeds of up to 415 MB/s, making access to data quick and easy. Featuring second-generation SATA 6 Gbps, this solid state drive is capable of high transfer rates. The Crucial Technology CT128M4SSD2 features Native Command Queuing, which means that the performance is further enhanced. Having no moving parts, this solid state drive is remarkably quiet. The Crucial Technology CT128M4SSD2 will give you reliable operation even in the most challenging environments. Low power, light and sturdy, the Crucial Technology SSD is a must-buy for your system.
Product Identifiers
Brand Crucial
Model CT128M4SSD2
MPN CT128M4SSD2
UPC 649528752185
Key Features
Enclosure Internal
Capacity 128 GB
Hard Drive Type SSD (Solid State Drive)
Interface SATA III
Technical Features
External Data Transfer Rate 300 Mbps
Seek Time 0.1 ms
Dimensions
Height 0.37 in.
Width 3.95 in.
Depth 2.75 in.
Weight 0.17 lbs
Hi,
perhaps you will be able to help me "imagine" what to expect from TF810 and its Atom SoC.
A while ago I had Asus 1201N (http://uk.asus.com/Eee/Eee_PC/Eee_PC_1201N_Seashell/#specifications) with 2GB of RAM and Atom 330 (http://ark.intel.com/products/35641/Intel-Atom-Processor-330-1M-Cache-1_60-GHz-533-MHz-FSB) on board.
System belonged to Nevidia ION platform - meaning it had dedicated graphics card on board (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nvidia_Ion#Ion_.28first-generation_Nvidia_Ion.29).
In terms of performance, video playback and every day usability I was totally satisfied with this system.
Its only problem was heat - lots and lots of it, even when netbook was hardly doing anything.
How can TF810 compare to 1201N?
Will it work in a assimilable way?
I understand that CPU itself should be more powerful than 1st gen of Atom... but how will this strange graphic card built in this SOC stuck up against Nvidia ION?
What can I expect?
Stack up in terms of what? it plays video perfectly fine, though I haven't tried more than 1080p mkv's on it.
The TF810C has the POWER VR SGX545 built into the Atom Z2760. It's above the iPad 3 SGX543 and below iPad 4 SGX554, but considering the absurd resolution of the iPad chances are it's more than on par with iPad 4.
It should also outperform the Tegra 3 and Mali 400 without breaking a sweat.
Speaking the PC language the SGX545 positions itself between the GMA 3600 (400mhz) and 3650 (640mhz) at 533mhz but Intel is likely to have optimized the chip further. The results are modest either way 260-285/420-440 points in 3D Mark 2006. However the technologies for full HD video playback have been much improved.
Depending on the drivers you could expect +200 points fluctuations. Others have noticed better performance with the HP drivers but have gotten screen flickering instead. Asus has not yet released updated drivers, mine are stock.
The ION you had was the 9400M which according to notebookckeck is outperformed by the desktop 9300ION.
The ION (9400M) scores in 3Dmark '06 1100 to 2200 points. In a notebook that was burning up you probably got the lower clock speed so it's doubtfull any netebook ever went far past 1100 points.
On such low scores 600 points barely make a difference. A small difference is something like 2000 points and it wouldn't justify a video card update. However I listed a few nice games that will work on the TF810C and in most cases they look far better than today's tablet ARM games: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2117486
On the CPU side you can expect improved performance but not much. From 330's 1600mhz you will get to 1800mhz on the Z2760. The boost will be 200mhz fair and square. What will matter the most is windows 8 that IMHO is the fastest and most fluid windows ever made.
You shouldn't worry much about the cpu, because the bottleneck is the eMMC that is about as fast as any 5400 RPM HDD. By no means does it achieve SSD like speeds, not without a SATA or USB 3.0 controller that is.
Regarding heat, we're talking more than ten times (10x) less wsted heat. The 330 had an 8W TDP while the nVidia ION 12W TDP. Well, you're in for a shock, the Atom Z2760 does everything better for 1.7W TDP!:cyclops:
Sources: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PowerVR
http://www.notebookcheck.net/Mobile-Processors-Benchmarklist.2436.0.html
http://www.notebookcheck.net/NVIDIA-GeForce-9400M-G.11949.0.html
Bec07 said:
The TF810C has the POWER VR SGX545 built into the Atom Z2760. It's above the iPad 3 SGX543 and below iPad 4
[...]
On the CPU side you can expect improved performance but not much. From 330's 1600mhz you will get to 1800mhz on the Z2760. The boost will be 200mhz fair and square. What will matter the most is windows 8 that IMHO is the fastest and most fluid windows ever made.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks! All that sounds quite optimistic.
Especially that I still own Samsung NC-10 and got access over the weekends to Nokia Booklet 3g. Both run first gen of Atom (same chip I had in Asus 1201N but just one of then - single core) - and performance is terrible .
Video playback is almost non existent, any operation (start Chrome, Control Panel, etc) takes ages, scrolling through web sites is difficult.
But from what I have seen W8 + new Atom = completely different (as it should be! ) experience ,
| just wanted to make sure I am not wrong here...
For me this will not be gaming device (previous was not as well) - so as long as I can browse in peace (and comfort), use Wordpress (impossible on the ipad) with few tabs open, Office , some 720p videos (+ Netflix and finally HULU for free!!! [with W8 device I can ditch Hulu Plus subscription!]) and perhaps Fruit Ninja from time to time.... I am more than happy!
I am Yamaris Johnson. I am using a gaming laptop [https://www.lenovo.com/fr/fr/d/gaming]. I want to purchase a new SSD for my gaming laptop. I was using HDD storage, but my laptop was getting slow and heating up also. So, I thought I should take another one.
To provide some background,
When considering storage for my laptop, I need to consider a lot of factors, not just the amount of storage the drive has. When I choose the type of SSD for my device, I need to consider the speed, readability, noise, and power usage.
Solid-state drives (SSDs) are the most common storage drives today.
SSDs are smaller and faster than hard disc drives (HDDs).
SSDs are noiseless and allow PCs to be thinner and more lightweight.
Hard disc drives (HDDs) are more common in older devices.
If you primarily use your PC for web browsing and light work, you may not need as much storage space.
If you work with large videos or files, you may want more storage.
If you use OneDrive or another cloud storage service for photos and files, you may need less storage on your device.
If anyone has any suggestions, please share them.
Thank you for your time.
yamarisjohnson said:
I am Yamaris Johnson. I am using a gaming laptop [https://www.lenovo.com/fr/fr/d/gaming]. I want to purchase a new SSD for my gaming laptop. I was using HDD storage, but my laptop was getting slow and heating up also. So, I thought I should take another one.
To provide some background,
When considering storage for my laptop, I need to consider a lot of factors, not just the amount of storage the drive has. When I choose the type of SSD for my device, I need to consider the speed, readability, noise, and power usage.
Solid-state drives (SSDs) are the most common storage drives today.
SSDs are smaller and faster than hard disc drives (HDDs).
SSDs are noiseless and allow PCs to be thinner and more lightweight.
Hard disc drives (HDDs) are more common in older devices.
If you primarily use your PC for web browsing and light work, you may not need as much storage space.
If you work with large videos or files, you may want more storage.
If you use OneDrive or another cloud storage service for photos and files, you may need less storage on your device.
If anyone has any suggestions, please share them.
Thank you for your time.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Maybe Seagate FireCuda
When it comes to gaming laptops, the fastest type of SSD is the NVMe (Non-Volatile Memory Express) SSD. This type of SSD uses the PCIe interface and has faster read and write speeds compared to SATA SSDs, which use the SATA interface. NVMe SSDs can provide faster boot times, faster game loading times, and improved overall system performance. However, it's worth noting that the difference in speed may not be noticeable in all gaming scenarios, and other factors such as the CPU and GPU may also impact gaming performance.
Actually I'm using a NVME compatible with my Dell G5 5590
It's the evergreen Samsung 980 Pro, it shines as the first day even after more than a year.
No need to buy a new SSD that costs the same and I cannot use the full speed
When it comes to choosing an SSD for gaming laptops, the fastest type of SSD is the NVMe (Non-Volatile Memory Express) SSD. NVMe SSDs typically have faster read and write speeds compared to traditional SATA (Serial Advanced Technology Attachment) SSDs, which can result in faster boot times, faster game loading times, and overall improved system performance.
NVMe SSDs use the PCIe (Peripheral Component Interconnect Express) interface, which provides faster data transfer rates than the SATA interface used by traditional SSDs. NVMe SSDs also have a higher number of input/output operations per second (IOPS) than SATA SSDs, which means they can handle more simultaneous data requests and provide faster access to data.
So, if you're looking for the fastest SSD for your gaming laptop, I would recommend looking for an NVMe SSD with a high read and write speed, as this will provide the best overall performance for gaming and other demanding tasks.