Database Users

Here's why I sold my Universal....or why i'm keeping it!

NOT ME!
I'm yet to get my universal, its on its way
Whats worse, it'll take another 15 days...as my sister is getting it from USA for me...and i'll have to wait till she makes it
I was just freaked out by the number of ppl selling away their devices, and thought i'd just start a thread where all of them give their reasons here...so that we'd know if it was the memory problem, or battery life, or bulkiness or whatever maybe the reason....and will help others making a decision to buy it!
Also, if you're one of those hanging on to the device from a while, and feel that this is "the" device to own, then tell us why!
Keep it nice and concise, bullet points as much as possible for easy reading
S

I'm keeping mine. The 'faults' are mostly little niggling things that can usually be gotten round by various hacks/tweaks people have made. And yeah it's a bit big, but you do get used to it
Positives:
- It's like having a little laptop.
- Connectivity wise it truly has it all - 3G, WI-FI, BT, video calling, SDIO, IRDA, etc. No other device has all of this.
- The WM5 OS makes it very easy to write programs/hacks for, so we will see a lot of these over the coming months.
- The VGA screen has a massive "wow" factor!
- Mini-USB connector and charger are very convenient indeed.
- Full-size headphone/speaker socket.
- Built in terminal services client is VERY useful!
- Awesome little keyboard with very good looking backlights.
- Persistant flash-based storage.
- Battery life is very good, lasts for many days on one charge.
- 4 (FOUR) speakers, and 2 (TWO) cameras! Flash is a nice gimmick too.
Basically for me, the huge amount of positives outweigh the small amount of negatives. Best "phone" I have ever owned.

dreamtheater39 said:
NOT ME!
I'm yet to get my universal, its own its way
Whats worse, it'll take another 15 days...as my sister is getting it from USA for me...and i'll have to wait till she makes it
I was just freaked out by the number of ppl selling away their devices, and thought i'd just start a thread where all of them give their reasons here...so that we'd know if it was the memory problem, or battery life, or bulkiness or whatever maybe the reason....and will help others making a decision to buy it!
Also, if you're one of those hanging on to the device from a while, and feel that this is "the" device to own, then tell us why!
Keep it nice and concise, bullet points as much as possible for easy reading
S
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
on a side note,
how much is your sister gettin it for for you from the US? did she have to sign a line?

vapor said:
dreamtheater39 said:
NOT ME!
I'm yet to get my universal, its own its way
Whats worse, it'll take another 15 days...as my sister is getting it from USA for me...and i'll have to wait till she makes it
I was just freaked out by the number of ppl selling away their devices, and thought i'd just start a thread where all of them give their reasons here...so that we'd know if it was the memory problem, or battery life, or bulkiness or whatever maybe the reason....and will help others making a decision to buy it!
Also, if you're one of those hanging on to the device from a while, and feel that this is "the" device to own, then tell us why!
Keep it nice and concise, bullet points as much as possible for easy reading
S
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
on a side note,
how much is your sister gettin it for for you from the US? did she have to sign a line?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Bought it at Mad Monkey Boy's Gadgets for 930 USD [qtek 9000]...and 20 USD for shipping to her address...
That makes it a total of 950USD....in comparison to 1350 USD here in India!!!
San

@sl9, I can only manage one day of use from my Exec's battery. I have been very careful with it from new. My Nokia 9500 with similar use can give me twice the life of the Exec battery. With the Exec if you use BT and forget to shutdown PIE you could run out of battery while you think the unit is "off/standby".

dreamtheater39 said:
vapor said:
dreamtheater39 said:
NOT ME!
I'm yet to get my universal, its own its way
Whats worse, it'll take another 15 days...as my sister is getting it from USA for me...and i'll have to wait till she makes it
I was just freaked out by the number of ppl selling away their devices, and thought i'd just start a thread where all of them give their reasons here...so that we'd know if it was the memory problem, or battery life, or bulkiness or whatever maybe the reason....and will help others making a decision to buy it!
Also, if you're one of those hanging on to the device from a while, and feel that this is "the" device to own, then tell us why!
Keep it nice and concise, bullet points as much as possible for easy reading
S
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
on a side note,
how much is your sister gettin it for for you from the US? did she have to sign a line?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Bought it at Mad Monkey Boy's Gadgets for 930 USD [qtek 9000]...and 20 USD for shipping to her address...
That makes it a total of 950USD....in comparison to 1350 USD here in India!!!
San
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
wow thats crazy man. but thanks for the heads up

I echo everything sl9 has said. The most important positives for me are:
- persistent storage
- WM5 means I never have to use my stylus, except for 3rd-party apps that haven't caught up yet
- full keyboard makes SMS a breeze
- some very useful touches in the software, like the easy switch on/off of BT and WiFi using just a couple of keyboard presses
- flexible and automatic speaker usage depending on the machine's orientation
- the way the thing feels in your hands (cool/cold, solid, 'tight'): it's nice to hold
- the VGA screen for browsing, Excel, calendar, contacts, ListPro and Today screen (I'm in proper VGA mode)
- battery lasts days for me, but I'm probably a lighter user than y'all and now (because most are awful on WM5) have no 3rd-party apps except PocketZenPhone, TomTom and ListPro (per day: 8 hrs Bluetooth, 1 hr phone, 10 SMS, 1 hr general use, 30 mins WiFi browsing)
- stability: Haven't done a reset in a week or so. I never force-close apps, but rely on WM5 to handle it. I have no idea how much program memory I have free, and I don't care: it just works
- Microsoft's contacts app is very good for keyboard-only use: makes dialling a contact easy
- there are some neat improvements in the UI, such as the way BT comes on automatically when you choose 'ActiveSync over Bluetooth', and headset mode is always on automatically if BT is on and the machine has found your headset to pair with
Negatives for me:
- WiFi reception is very poor
- OEM-supplied voice dial is poor. I hate having to record voice tags, and it's not 100% reliable with detection. This could be my HBH-65 headset though. Sometimes the voice dial prompt cuts in when I'm trying to answer a call on the headset :evil:
- Microsoft's calendar app is very very weak, as is PocketIE, and PocketOutlook for emails
- the phone app should scale to VGA properly and it should have a built-in T9 contact finder (the O2-supplied 'Smart Dialler' doesn't take advantage of the hardware keyboard, so is pointless)
- speaking of which, O2's bundled software is pointless and unhelpful
Umm....
- oh yeah: the cameras are still very weak and useful only for taking emergency pictures, such as recording car accidents that you have and newsworthy moments
- the camera flash is useless as a camera flash, but very good as a torch, if only the machine had an easy way of using this feature
- the hardware application buttons aren't as programmable or flexible as they could/should be. I wish we could program each button through the OS for both Press and Press-'n-Hold
Of course a big negative ATM is the lack of 3rd-party apps that are truly compatible with WM5, but this is hardly the fault of HTC or the mobile operators.
So, the hardware is excellent (with the exception of the cameras and WiFi reception) but the OS-bundled software is flawed. Hopefully we'll get ROM updates that will improve things, just like we did for earlier HTC machines.

jah said:
@sl9, I can only manage one day of use from my Exec's battery. I have been very careful with it from new. My Nokia 9500 with similar use can give me twice the life of the Exec battery. With the Exec if you use BT and forget to shutdown PIE you could run out of battery while you think the unit is "off/standby".
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Then I would say your battery may be faulty. Do you have wi-fi on?
With bluetooth on permenantly, my MDA PRO lasts for 3~ days on one charge. Without bluetooth, it lasts for 4-5 days.
I'm a fairly light user though, 1 short voice call a day on average, although I do open it up and turn on the screen about 10 times a day to check for reminders, text, notes etc.
Perhaps you are a much heavier user of it than I am? Even so, battery life on your device does seem unusually short

@sl9,
Without BT I get 3.5 hours of use with a combination of eBooks, PIM, email & web browsing (50% using 3G). With BT on that reduces to 3 hours. I use my Nokia in a similar was as a phone, ebook reader, PDA, etc. This is my second Universal as I had a JJ before the Exec and the JJ's battery life was a little worst. This level of use is not unusual for a business user who also travels a lot.

SiliconS said:
I echo everything sl9 has said. The most important positives for me are:
- persistent storage
- WM5 means I never have to use my stylus, except for 3rd-party apps that haven't caught up yet
- full keyboard makes SMS a breeze
- some very useful touches in the software, like the easy switch on/off of BT and WiFi using just a couple of keyboard presses
- flexible and automatic speaker usage depending on the machine's orientation
- the way the thing feels in your hands (cool/cold, solid, 'tight'): it's nice to hold
- the VGA screen for browsing, Excel, calendar, contacts, ListPro and Today screen (I'm in proper VGA mode)
- battery lasts days for me, but I'm probably a lighter user than y'all and now (because most are awful on WM5) have no 3rd-party apps except PocketZenPhone, TomTom and ListPro (per day: 8 hrs Bluetooth, 1 hr phone, 10 SMS, 1 hr general use, 30 mins WiFi browsing)
- stability: Haven't done a reset in a week or so. I never force-close apps, but rely on WM5 to handle it. I have no idea how much program memory I have free, and I don't care: it just works
- Microsoft's contacts app is very good for keyboard-only use: makes dialling a contact easy
- there are some neat improvements in the UI, such as the way BT comes on automatically when you choose 'ActiveSync over Bluetooth', and headset mode is always on automatically if BT is on and the machine has found your headset to pair with
Negatives for me:
- WiFi reception is very poor
- OEM-supplied voice dial is poor. I hate having to record voice tags, and it's not 100% reliable with detection. This could be my HBH-65 headset though. Sometimes the voice dial prompt cuts in when I'm trying to answer a call on the headset :evil:
- Microsoft's calendar app is very very weak, as is PocketIE, and PocketOutlook for emails
- the phone app should scale to VGA properly and it should have a built-in T9 contact finder (the O2-supplied 'Smart Dialler' doesn't take advantage of the hardware keyboard, so is pointless)
- speaking of which, O2's bundled software is pointless and unhelpful
Umm....
- oh yeah: the cameras are still very weak and useful only for taking emergency pictures, such as recording car accidents that you have and newsworthy moments
- the camera flash is useless as a camera flash, but very good as a torch, if only the machine had an easy way of using this feature
- the hardware application buttons aren't as programmable or flexible as they could/should be. I wish we could program each button through the OS for both Press and Press-'n-Hold
Of course a big negative ATM is the lack of 3rd-party apps that are truly compatible with WM5, but this is hardly the fault of HTC or the mobile operators.
So, the hardware is excellent (with the exception of the cameras and WiFi reception) but the OS-bundled software is flawed. Hopefully we'll get ROM updates that will improve things, just like we did for earlier HTC machines.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
woah! your negatives sure scares the daylights out of me!
- bad wifi reception??? what seems to be the problem???! for me, this is going to be really important!
- bad camera quality? how bad is it??? I saw a few pictures taken from the universal on a couple review sites, and they looked pretty good! am i missing something? (damn i didnt play around enough with the camera when i had the device with me the last week )
S

Well, the WiFi is hard to measure, but the range is nowhere near as good as my HP laptop. I struggle to get a signal on my Exec if I'm not within about 4 metres of my Access Point in my house. (Standard modern house, thin internal wooden walls.) I can use my laptop anywhere in the house (up to 10 metres away) and in the garden too, but no chance with the Universal. I need to move the Access Point.
As for the camera, I guess it's subjective, but I wouldn't rely on it for decent photos. It's OK for times when you just have to record an image but you're not needing to print it out. Here's a comparison between my Universal and a 4 year-old 2 MPixel Canon Ixus300. Both photos without flash, because the Universal's flash has no effect on photos when the subject is more than a metre from the lens. Both photos are at 640x480 and at the same compression level (filesize 38KB). Neither camera is at its native resolution, to make it a realistic comparison.
Edit: moved photos to a new thread
http://forum.xda-developers.com/viewtopic.php?t=33960

Hmm. Not sure why they don't both appear as thumbnails. :roll:
Forgot to add: Universal was in 'Night' ambience mode.
Edit: Incidentally, when you take pictures at the Universal's native resolution (1280x1024) the quality is better, but the same problems are there: poor light sensitivity, poor light colouration, blurred focus, indistinct details etc.
It's better, but a long way from good.
And don't forget, the Canon camera is old now: 4 years. Just 2 MPixel - only twice that of the Universal.
Edit edit: Moved photos to a new thread so they don't break this one
http://forum.xda-developers.com/viewtopic.php?t=33960

@SiliconS
thats a nice comparison shot! ( still wondering if you took them both with similar lighting conditions!!! )
i did read that the universal is fairly bad with "colors" as such....guess we have to live with it!
with the wifi range issue....gosh!! 4metres??? tell me your joking please!
S

dreamtheater39 said:
thats a nice comparison shot! ( still wondering if you took them both with similar lighting conditions!!! )
i did read that the universal is fairly bad with "colors" as such....guess we have to live with it!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Same room. Same lighting. Photos just one minute apart.
It's not really much better than my XDA2. Just bigger resolution. Low-light shots are really not its strong point though. Only by comparison can you see how bad it really is.
dreamtheater39 said:
with the wifi range issue....gosh!! 4metres??? tell me your joking please!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry - I'm serious. Maybe others can confirm, or tell me that mine is worse than theirs. It's hard to measure objectively though.

You have to be kidding about the 4m WiFi range. I have the router placed in my bedroom and i can actually connect 2 rooms away which are in serial. Oh and there are 2 concrete walls in between.
I still get 2 bars inspite of all this. If you call this weak, then i dont know what to say.
Regarding the camera, its oodles better than the xda2 or the xda2s. It is also much better than the JAM, but then again these are not very good standards to compare to. Yes, it is not as good as Nokia or SE but if the camera is the reason one decides not to buy this device, then this device is clearly not for you.

Yeah, the camera sucks. Who cares? The rest of what's on the Uni - the critical stuff - works great. Quality in a cell phone camera is few years off ...

universaldoc said:
You have to be kidding about the 4m WiFi range. I have the router placed in my bedroom and i can actually connect 2 rooms away which are in serial. Oh and there are 2 concrete walls in between.
I still get 2 bars inspite of all this. If you call this weak, then i dont know what to say.
Regarding the camera, its oodles better than the xda2 or the xda2s. It is also much better than the JAM, but then again these are not very good standards to compare to. Yes, it is not as good as Nokia or SE but if the camera is the reason one decides not to buy this device, then this device is clearly not for you.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
hi universaldoc!
i currently have an xda2 running on wm5! So when i junk my device and buy a new one, i'd first of all see what are the pluses i get by making such a decision.....
heres what i can count -
1. Awesome keyboard (i really love it!)
2. VGA screen (finally!)
3. Built in Wifi
4. Better Camera
5. 3G support (currently useless to me....but its still good!)
6. The cool factor???
7. 10MB more device root space??
8. I'm running out of points!!!
Having said that....I still have bought my universal (but i'm waiting for it get here :evil: ) only because, i'm a god damned gadget freak and wouldnt mind trading away my spare kidney for one!
I'm just reconfirming my buy....the "reality hits" phase....you know???!!
San

I totally agree with all the positives already mentioned. As far as negatives are concerned, I have none. I love my O2 XDA Exec!
One point I'd like to mention though. My XDA Exec has GREAT WiFi. When I was setting-up my MSN Messenger, my Exec detected 4 different access points including my own. I happen to notice my neighbors' access point which I helped her setup included in the list. Now, she lives about 3 apartments down, so you can just imagine the lenght and obstacles my Exec has to traverse.

I don't have wi-fi yet though hoping to get it sorted in the next month or so. Though on the odd occasion I've switched the Exec's on, I've picked up stuff that must be about 30 - 40 metres away. I know for sure I picked up my cousin's network from around 20 metres outside his house the other week - and he lives in a converted barn with thick interior / exterior walls!
Regarding everyone else's positives and negatives, I agree with most. The camera is a LOT better, and is better than the 2.0MP one we had up to a few months ago. However, it's certainly not the main reason for buying a phone and certainly not in a feature-rich device such as the Exec. The pose factor alone is worth it, especially when sat in laptop mode in the car :wink:
It's 3G. It's an awesome looking bit of kit. One or two niggles in the software that will be ironed out. It's inspired 3 of my colleagues and bosses at work to get one. Less kit to carry around between home and work (no cradle, just a lead). VGA screen - which I STILL look at in awe sometimes. I didn't think I'd get to like landscape mode, but now I LOVE it.
Best XDA by far for me, and I've had most :wink:
Cheers
Ant

if else is positive, the main negative would be the response to incoming phone calls especially thru BT headset :evil: ... you would be lucky to take it from the 1st time ... usually it takes 2-3 sec which is more than enough for the caller to hang up :evil:
Believe it or not ... I use the Universal now only for data activities (e-mail, net, ...) and I have to carry my old i-mate for phone things ... nice scene ... huh ? :x
I can't wait to see a real update for the Radio ROM
ohh ... and a one hell missing feature ... a secondary LCD on the cover to avoid opening the screen just to see who's calling ... a very simple idea you find on almost all flapping mobile phones!!!!

Kaiser or Athena

Hi all.
I have a HTC Athena for daily use and others for developing and testing (Tynt, s200, p3300 and Universal) and I ve the posibility to get a cheap kaiser. My question (not easy)is..
"...Should I replace my Athena with kaiser??"
Athena strong points against kaiser.
1) SCREEN SCREEN SCREEN
2) a better Keyboard?
Athena weak points agains kaiser
1) Worst gps
2) very bulky.
3) My headsets makes me crazy many times.
4) touchflo?
I would like to listen other thoughts about it....
Thanks¡

I actually have both but am considering selling the Athena as it proved to be just a bit too big for my daily use... I just need to be able to put it into a pocket (even if it bulges out) every once in a while - something I couldn't do with the Athena, especially not in the leather 'case'. And I'm not a big fan of the 'quick-draw-western-style' holsters for the belt...
I've had the Kaiser only for a very few days and have found a few bugs, but they are not deal-breaking for me... and I'm enjoying the form-factor...
Functionality-wise I think they are very similar... apart from the VGA-resolution screen on the Athena.

Thanks Marcoma.
Apart of form-factor, do you appreciate more improvements in kaiser not present in athena (speed, phone speed, battery live, etc, etc).?
I think I would miss the vga screen too much
Dani

Well - the speed does seem a bit faster, but then again it is only driving a 320 x 240 resolution... I am able to watch movies again which is really nice (have to use an adapter for the headphones though since it doesn't have that nice 3.5" plug like the Athena) and I benchmark around 145 - 170% in Coreplayer.
Remember the actual CPU is slower than the Athena (520 - 620MHz if I remember correctly).
I don't find the phone a lot faster, but I didn't use the phone itself that often... the battery lasts about as long as I got out of the Athena... depending on the usage 1 - 2 days. if you watch movies, use GPS etc. it's a day - no more
What is very nice is the application that comes bundles where one just takes a picture of a business-card and it OCR's the picture and puts it right into contact - pretty darn accurate and way cool (and for me actually useful).
Overall, i feel it's like the Athena, just in a smaller package...

I had a HTC Advantage X7500. I returned that to mobileplanet for a full refund $1100. Now I own a HTC Kaiser TyTN II $750. I would call Kaiser the best available in its size group.
I disliked a few things in the HTC Advantage X7500. High Price, Battery not highly upgradable, Size, Weight, Portability,
When HTC Advantage X7500 prices drop I will go back for it. I love the fact that you can upgrade its microdrive and it supports miniSDHC. HTC Athena is a good device for modding.
I have seen a lot of people who are in the Kaiser community who are no more in the Athena community.

danielherrero said:
Hi all.
I have a HTC Athena for daily use and others for developing and testing (Tynt, s200, p3300 and Universal) and I ve the posibility to get a cheap kaiser. My question (not easy)is..
"...Should I replace my Athena with kaiser??"
Athena strong points against kaiser.
1) SCREEN SCREEN SCREEN
2) a better Keyboard?
Athena weak points agains kaiser
1) Worst gps
2) very bulky.
3) My headsets makes me crazy many times.
4) touchflo?
I would like to listen other thoughts about it....
Thanks¡
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not used a kaiser but..
Worst GPS? Why?
touchflo?
better keyboard? not tried kaiser but prefer Universals.

Well, finally got a kaiser.
1) Screen is qvga, logically
2) GPS is much much better.
3) Fits in my pocket.
4) Keyboard is good but Athena's one is better.
5) I can forget my headset if not necesary
....
I am happy with It but I wouldnt pay 650€ for a kaiser if I already ve an Athena....

danielherrero said:
Thanks Marcoma.
Apart of form-factor, do you appreciate more improvements in kaiser not present in athena (speed, phone speed, battery live, etc, etc).?
I think I would miss the vga screen too much
Dani
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
speed? The Athena has clearly the faster processor and running the same OS (assuming WM6) why should Kaister be faster?

Im in a similar boat, T-mobile upgrade is due, using a hermes, considering the Athena, but feel the Kasier is what I need. I really love reading all the athena stuff, and feel its a great device but on a daily basis ill just go crazy. Found an old diary which is about the same dimensions of the Athena, and kept carrying it everywhere to imagine what it would be like using the athena. Anyways I am gonna pop into a T-mobile shop and see what deals are available on both and then decide. Its more like Loving this hot babe, but knowing you cant live with her... LoL..

if you are more of a talker then a smaller phone is for you
personally i am much more of a internet browser, video streamer etc so the Athena blows away anything for me at the moment.
Its more like a mini laptop that can make phone calls than a true phone which suits me just fine but is not for everyone

Spacecat I echo your point. I'm also more an internet browsing person, although I also watch movies a lot with its big screen. So for me the big screen, although bigger size, is the biggest advantage of Athena. I don't care about hardware keyboard as Tengo is working so well for me, especially on big screen.
After using real VGA at 128 dpi, I just can't imagine using QVGA. Its simply no longer acceptable anymore. A small VGA screen does not go well with realVGA even at 128 dpi( this is assuming that you do come across a smaller VGA enabled device)
Bottom line: BIG VGA screen is the single most important consideration for me. It's not the storage space or keyboard, especially when you can get 8GB microSDHC card.

Thank you spacecat and eaglesteve, for your inputs, I am gonna think this one out a bit more, but it always feels very re-assuring to hear first hand experiences.

I am a 8525 user and i will upgrade soon
but i'm not sure with one i'll choose
I have read lots of reviews of the athena,one thing I haven't found, is it possible to use it as a phone ( speak with it, with out a speaker phone or a bluetooth)
just placing it against my head and speak
and no vibration ... ? how do you get your mail or sms during a meeting ?
is it possible to put it in your pocket ... for exemple in a pocket of a jacket coat or a jeans ?
thank you

The phone works out of the box as a 'speaker phone'. If you plug in a pair of earphones you get privacy for the incoming side of the conversation and the mike will still work. This makes it similar to a regular phone. If you have a 3.5 plug headset that will work also as will bluetooth headsets.
I doubt this device would ever get in a jeans pocket unless you have a large cargo pocket on the outside of the leg. I have been using such pairs of pants and it is satisfactory but I think a pouch attached to your belt is the best way to go.
Brad

I do hold it against my face.
ariaguest said:
and no vibration ... ? how do you get your mail or sms during a meeting ?
thank you
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is not an issue for me. I simply go to sound setting and change the announcement for new sms and mail to a soft beep. I can always hear it but others don't really notice it. Or if they do, no one has said anything. You can do the same for incoming call before going into a meeting, just change the ringtone to a soft beep.
I do use the phone without bluetooth and hold it against my face. Does'nt bother me a bit. However,when using voip, I use a wired headset otherwise there will be echo at the other end as the other guy's voice coming out of the speaker feed into the microphone.
I use a diy belt pouch to carry it around without keyboard,and it's not big at all.

I also prefare X7500, althogh have just ordered Keiser fir m wife. The screen is most important. When in the car there is no comparison to any other device. I use it hardly as a phone, but also as data/info storage, mailing, internert and as access pont for my laptop, when on the move.
I always use my Jabra stereo headset and keep it on a belt. This way I do not have to bother to get it out when the call rings. People usualy do not know wheather I am on the pohone or am talking to them. This is the only problem. Jabra aso works great when on voip.

same doubts. I'm on the 3 pieces bandwagon. A tablet (IBM X60) which is the main office, a very slim/small/cheap cell (LG KG320) and a WM hardware. Until few days ago I use a HTC TyTN and went to HKG looking for an Athena. Find only the old Dopod version and get disapointed with the white looking and price. So, got a Kaiser. Very good machine, no questions. BUT, when I want to work light the Kaiser is not enough to show products to a client. The screen is just to small for a more professional use. On the other hand is too expensive and bulky for a constant use as a cell (which I carry even for jogging). I think that if you choose the 3 pieces approach for a mobile work the Athena is probably the best. I had a look on the UMPCs and find many nice and even well priced. Problem? Vista. Who wants a mobile hardware with slow boot and all the problems Vista related (plus anemic processors) and a battery that does not last a full work day? I will try to get an Athena from USA where the prices are more reasonable.

what are people moving on to?

The Universal has severed me well for several years, but I feel that there must be something newer, shiner out there.
(I basically want a new toy)
I love having a proper keyboard, the ability to open word/excel files as well as web browsing and email.
Any recommendations
Ash

I got an XDA Orbit - but still keep going back to my Exec. It may be bulky but I still love the flexibility of it.

Take a look at HTC Athena or HTC Shift, its bulky but a step up indeed.

I'm not moving on, the Uni is still the best IMHO. No other phone has a full keyboard (including number buttons), VGA screen, normal sized SD card slot, 3.5mm headphone socket, 3G, and massive extended batteries of over 5000mAH. The Athena is not counted, since you need a headset or speakerphone to use it as a "phone", which I find too inconvenient.
I will not upgrade until a phone comes out which has most if not all of the above features.

I upgraded to O2 XDA Atom Life a couple of weeks ago. I never used the keyboard of universal, so, being keyboardless on atom life does not hurts. 1gb rom is a big plus. I've stored everything on my device(including a 600mb movie too ). Its fast(624MHZ) too. Its qvga, but, at 2.8', it looks sweet. And hey, its beautiful from outside too
Overall, a happy guy. Impressed with quanta's hardware quality too.
edit: here is the review of it on my website
http://gadgetmix.com/reviews/atomlife/atomlife.htm

Kaiser - the HSDPA and GPS nearly makes up for the lack of VGA screen and full number row.
Surur

I'm upgraing to... The universal! Yep apart from going to the athena which i dont have the money for nothing compares to the Universal. Must admit the Kaiser did appeal to me but with it's GPS chip, but a 400 Mhz processor and QVGA persuaded me to that the Uni was better. Now if HTC was to put a GPS chip in the Uni? It'd be perfect and have everything.
Psi

when is the omni expected? any news?

Advice needed for possible purchase of Athena

Hi,
I already have a Qtek 9090 (3 years old, used during 2 years) and a MDA Pro (1 year in my possesion - purchased used at ebay).
I like to use my birthday to get myself new devices and because I like my MDA Pro / Universal so much, I am considering getting myself another one as a backup.
While I liked my Qtek 9090 very much, the truth is that I am in love with the VGA display and never want to go back to 320x200 resolution.
Now the question: I can get a Universal at ebay for less than 200 Euro. A Athena costs about twice as much. Still I was wondering if it is worth it: should I get a Athena instead of a second Universal?
Why I like my Universal so much:
- WM6
- great VGA screen
- fast processor
- 4GB SD card
- fit's in my back pocket of my trousers
- voice command, which works with my car kit
- keyboard
Why I have doubts regarding the Athena:
- screen is bigger but same resolution (should be 800x600...)
- device is huge - will it fit in my trouser's pocket?
- isn't it strange to have a phone which has to be used with a bluetooth headset (cable is out of the question for me)
- can it be mounted in the car, so I can make use of the GPS?
I would appreciate your feedback, as I am not convinced. On one hand, I would like to have a different HTC device for my (small) collection, on the other hand, the Universal is cheaper and seems to be more practical.
Cheers,
vma

Why get another Universal? I loved mine but prefer my Athena. The screen is much biger and better and using a Brodit mount in the car with CoPilot7 makes most dedicate GPS devices look pathetic.
it fits in my pocket - but I have big pockets. The lack of vibrate is a biut annoying but the big screen and massive storage (my 8Gb drive is suplimented by a 4Gb card) make it ideal for me. You also get HSDPA which you don't with the Universal - but it eats battery life.
I still have my universal but it is kept in a drawer. The Athena is not for everyone but with WM6 / 6.1 is a fantastic device - does everything the Universal does but bigger and better.
Your choice.
PS Happy Birthday

vma said:
Why I have doubts regarding the Athena:
- screen is bigger but same resolution (should be 800x600...)
- device is huge - will it fit in my trouser's pocket?
- isn't it strange to have a phone which has to be used with a bluetooth headset (cable is out of the question for me)
- can it be mounted in the car, so I can make use of the GPS?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, I recently switched to the Universal and also thought long about getting the Athena...
Full VGA resolution on the Universal sometimes was annoying for me. Using the Uni in PDA mode needs much concentration and is limited in speed, because you just can't hit some buttons precisely while walking.
So to me the bigger display would be a plus, but only you know, whether this is true for you or not.
The size of the Athena is just a bit too big for some applications. The Uni also fits in my rear trousers' pockets but the Athena definitely wouldn't. I'd be willing to accept that, if the screen would be bigger and had a higher resolution, but as it is the Athena is just too big or too small.
Get the measures off the net and wrap something around your Uni until it is as big as the Athena, then shove it up your.. err... pocket
It is strange to have a phone you have to use with a BTHS. But if you watch yourself in the mirror with the Uni, you'll also realize how funny you look with such a brick at your ear. I tend to see this feature of the Uni as a backup, in case my BT800 runs out of juice, gets stolen or whatevercouldhappen.
Most certainly yes! There surely is some device available, that can take it.
I was very close to buy the Athena, but at the end the size mattered. For half the price it got all the features I wanted and kept the option of leaving the house ready to work without any bag or case.
If you don't mind the size and the price, what's keeping you with the Uni?
If it is the vibration, get the right headset.

Thanks for the replies.
I was in a store today and they had an Athena in display: it is substantially bigger than the Universal.
What's even worse is that a used one costs twice as much as a used Universal. I think I will be getting myself another Universal as a backup device, which I can flash at will...
The Athena will have to wait for next year - hopefully it will be available cheaper then.
Cheers,
vma

The Uni is a great device, not sure if I'd buy a second one tho. If the Athena is not for you why not try something different? Maybe a kaiser?
Good luck with whatever you decide.

The key difference is the 5 inches VGA screen which allows you to use RealVGA meaningfully in 96dpi. No other devices would have this capability. This allows you to surf internet with unmatcheable pleasure, same goes for excel spreadsheet, etc, etc.
This is the key difference. Do you want to see more?

Don't get me wrong: I would prefer to have an Athena instead of a second Universal. But the price for a used one is still to high, specially considering that I won't get that much difference. I simply am going to wait another year to see if the price drops to an acceptable level.
What's makeing me consider a second Universal now is that I am afraid that my current one could get broken (can't live without it) and the fact that I would like to try more firmwares. Having only one means that I am under time pressure to get everything working again, before the next working day...
Still, I'd love to have an Athena!
Cheers,
vma

i considered getting a universal again as they're so cheap! Hsdpa is no concern for me as there is no difference between rendering times with hsdpa over standard 3g since opera and i.e can only render to a certain speed anyway. The only time hsdpa is handy is for internet sharing, but as stated it milks the battery VERY badly. The screen is bigger on the athena but the same resolution - so no extra screen real-estate compared to the universal, just bigger icons. I like the fact that you can use the universal against your ear properly, and that the screen is protected. I also think the keyboard is a hell of a lot better than the athena's. The athena does have an 8gb drive, but an sd card is fine for me, and i'd sooner use a sirf 3 external gps than an internal one, though internal ones are handy for on the go. I don't think the athena is worth twice as much as a universal, though the screen is very nice.and big. It is pocketable so long as you don't attach the keyboard though

I had a universal for a while then I got an s620 because of the whole size issue. However, I just couldn't stand not having a touch screen.
I gotta say, the bigger you go, the crappier they get as a phone. The smaller you go, the crappier the functions get. I love my advantage, but I don't use it as my primary phone.
If you ask me, both the universal and advantage are huge phones. The universal makes a better phone while the advantage is a far better pda...well...it's kinda big for that too.
One thing I hate is compromising. In your situation, you're going to compromise something if you go either way. You already have a universal and know what it's good for. Why not try the advantage. If you don't like it just sell it.

I have a universal, athena, and kasier and many others. The universal is a great device, clear nice screen and a great keyboard. My issue with the universal as that as I live in the US, i could not use its 3g data. So I bought an Athena. The universal is a much better phone than the athena, but the screen and data usage is so much better on the athena.
The best pda for a phone I have used so far is the kasier, has same memory and ram as the athena (twice that of the universal and hermes). But the athena just can't be beat for data/pim usage and surfing the web on a pda.
But the universal has the best keyboard i have used on a pda. I wish the athena had a keyboard as good as the universal.

I carry my Athena in my jeans jacket, trench coat and other jackets, no problem ( just the device not the keyboard which I don't use anyway), yea the device is big but has not been an issue for my at all, but the screen is great for GPS and you can mount it in the car and whenever I use public transport it is great for e books or just browsing.
Bluethooth headset is a must, I used to carry a in ear device but I wasnt happy about it, now I carry a pendant type and you wouldn't know its there, luckily i didnt have problems with entangled wires.
I f you worry about cost, then yes the UNI can be bought at reasonable price, if it is size or other functionality perhaps a Portege, but I am very happy with Athena so far.

Nerd question about the Athena...

Hi,
I am considering to get me an Athena and I need some help and advice.
I already own:
1x Blue Angel
2x Universal
1x HP iPaq 514 Voice Messenger
1x VDA GPS (aka Toshiba G710)
I also have an Asus eeePC 701.
My SIM has an internet contract included (100 MB download/month) and I have an USB Internet adapter which I can use i.e. with my eeePC.
Having said this, you probably understand I am a nerd and I like to "collect" phones and gadgets. The reason is simple: I don't drink, I don't smoke, I don't waste money on anything, so at least, I think, I can get me some nice phones from time to time. All were bargains, most I got from eBay. The reason I like smartphones is that i carry them around all the time, so I can really have a benefit of owning them. A PS3, for example, may be a nice piece of hardware, but I would not have much time at home to really make use of it.
What do I want to know?
Basically, if you guy's can use the Athena as a phone. Do you REALLY use it as your sole mobile phone, or is it too big and clumsy (specially having to use BT headphone) to make calls?
The Universal is big, but it does fit nice into my back pocket of the jeans - how do you carry the Athena around?
What are the real advantages of an Athena, compared to a Universal? The screen resolution is the same (I guess having a bigger screen, will make the RealVGA usefull - on the Universal things get far too small), the CPU speed can be the same, by overclocking the Universal (actually not overclocking, but letting it run at full speed), the GPS is nice, but can be overcome with an external one (like the one I have).
I know these are lame questions, but 250-300 Euro is still a lot of cash and I want to make sure i don't regret it.
My major concern is that the device is not usable as a phone. I hate carrying two devices with me and that is exactly the problem I have with the eeePC: it's screen is too small to replace a proper laptop and to replace the MDA Pro, I would have to carry two devices with me. That's too much.
So any feedback is appreciated, as I am wondering what would be more USEABLE on a daily basis: an eeePC 1000 (10" screen, 1.6Ghz, 160 GB HDD, battery up to 6 hours...) for around 380 Euro, or an Athena second hand at eBay for around 300 Euro.
The eeePC 1000 has the advantage of replacing a laptop, but the disadvantage of not replacing a phone.
I know, long post, but please shed some light into this.
Thanks,
vma

x7510 a great device
vma said:
What do I want to know?
Basically, if you guy's can use the Athena as a phone. Do you REALLY use it as your sole mobile phone, or is it too big and clumsy (specially having to use BT headphone) to make calls?
The Universal is big, but it does fit nice into my back pocket of the jeans - how do you carry the Athena around?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I was a proud owner of a Blueangel for 4 years and loved it. I started to get tired of it a couple years ago and then I found xda-developers and discovered how to upgrade and turn my old WM2003SE device into a top notch WM6.1 device. Needless to say with all the smaller screen, slower CPU devices on the market I stayed with my trusty BA. That is until I found the x7510. My BA lives in a drawer in the bedroom now, I keep it charged so I have it if I need it, and I use my Athena exclusively for all my phone/PDA needs. I carry it in the back pocket of my blue jeans and it fits fine.
My major concern is that the device is not usable as a phone. I hate carrying two devices with me and that is exactly the problem I have with the eeePC: it's screen is too small to replace a proper laptop and to replace the MDA Pro, I would have to carry two devices with me. That's too much.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have not regretted my upgrade from the BA to the Athena for a second. The only reason I have not sold my BA yet is becuase I have had the Athena for less than 1 month and am keeping it as a backup. I plan to go this weekend to the local market and have a custom belt carry case made for it. I am in Kuwait and it will not cost me much at all for this. The only reason I am doing this is for the added convenience not becuase it is required.

7501 is my everyday device
If yoi look at my sig. I also own quite a few devices. Since acquiring my 7501 6 months ago, I have not used any other of my devices. I used a BT headset with all of my oyher devices anyway. The 7501 is by far the best device I have ever owned.

You can turn the volume all the way down and hold it like a regular phone, with the mic hole by your mouth. Its not perfect and not private in a quiet room, but its useable. I also hate carrying a BT headset all the time for private conversations, but my Jabra BT8010 also gives me caller ID and vibrate, "fixing" several of the major problems with the Athena all at one time. Also gives me a decent stereo headset for MP3 and radio streaming.
I've had mine a year now and will never be able to go back to a smaller phone. The screen is just so much more useable than most other pdas or phones.

Thank you for your replies.
I think I will keep it on hold, though.
I have been researching the Ameo and basically understand that the 7500 and 7501 are basically similar and feature a real Hitachi Microdrive HDD.
The 7510 has a different keyboard and a 16GB SDD Flashdisk and requires a different ROM. I believe it cannot be SIM-Unlocked either.
There seems to be a problem with the Microdrive failing and having read-errors. This is a turn-off for me, when buying from ebay, as this fault is not easy to detect and proove, but surely may be a reason to get rid of such a device at ebay... Yeah, call me a suspicious guy...
The 7510, on the other hand, lacks the joystick and I definitly require that for my ebook reading, which I love. Paginating by touching the screen all the time is not very appealing.
Then there are those who say: go for the 7501, forget about the HDD and just get a 16GB SDHC. The point is: I can get that for my Universal!
So now I am wondering what REAL benefits I would have from an Ameo and I guess I will wait for either a superb bargain at ebay, a new one on sale at a local store (doubt that, however) or until the prices drop further at ebay (below 200 Euro).
Thangs again.
Cheers,
vma

Hi,
I have purchased an Athena these days and here is what I have to say to all those considering the move from the Universal to the Athena.
1) The Universal reached the 100 Euro mark at eBay, while the Athena (7500 version) is being sold at 200 Euro. These are the prices at ebay.de for the MDA Pro / T-Mobile Ameo versions.
2) First impression: the Athena is big. And when I say big, I mean it! I already had played with one in a store, but actually owning one is different, because only then you notice it won't fit in any of your pockets! After using it for 2 days, I picked up my Universal and found myself smiling at the "small" size of it!
3) Second impression: damn! It is a huge device... I will have to carry it in my hand if I want to take it with me. I mean, other people carry a book or a filofax. I now carry this super phone...
4) Funtionality: there is everything you can think of. You get highspeed mobile internet, WLAN, Bluetooth, all possible GSM standards, motion sensor, huge ROM/RAM memory, 8GB microdrive, GPS, ... The Universal not only lacks onboard GPS, it is struggeling with having only 64MB RAM. That is a limitation for the upcoming WM 6.5 firmware releases being cooked. And even with WM 6.1 some limitations exist. Soldering extra 64MB on my Universal is too expensive in my opinion.
5) Screen: the screen is fantastic! Compared to the Universal, though it has the same resolution, it is big enough for the eyes to take advantage of small fonts. After using the Athena, I now look at the Universal screen and I have to admit it is a little bit too small for such a resolution.
6) Keyboard: despide several online reviews stating the opposite, I do like the touch and feel of the keyboard. i would have prefered separate numeric keys, though. Also, I like the Universal's keyboard design better. Having a separate magnetic keyboard is less functional, I think.
7) Pros of the Athena:
- big screen
- speed: fast device
- speed: internet is very fast, pages load much quicker than on the Universal
- GPS: nice to have everything in one device
- memory: yeah! 128 MB RAM plus 8GB storage, plus Mini-SD slot... That rocks! And you can always use a Micro-2-Mini SD card adapter to use the cheaper and more available MicroSD cards
- overall exquisit looking noble device: if you are a hacker, you will survive a lonely day in a hotel room with this beast!
8) Cons of the Athena:
- too big to fit any pocket, specially back trouser pocket...
- keyboard is a bit odd
*** CONCLUSION ***
So, is it worth the change from the Universal?
No.
You should not want to CHANGE from the Universal to the Athena.
You SHOULD have an Athena as a second device, which you use on special days:
- boring days in the office/mother in law/waiting rooms
- meetings (this 200 Euro second hand device will kill all the attention normally spent over iPhones and similar phones at over 600 Euro)
- trips (planes, train and hotels)
Plus, it is simply a gorgeous device, which does appeal to any hacker!
Hope this helped anyone considering which phone to get...

Best way to carry the Athena: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=344605

Just buy it and try it out , it will not cost you an arm and a leg !! If you find it not suitable for whatever reasons , just sell quick it away at 30% loss , you probably bought many devices already , one more wont make you suffer that much i am sure , but many of advantage owners from day one it launched till now really do love it , some to the extremes too , so are you one of us ? , only you can answer this yourself , cheers , take care and enjoy - ok ?