Smart KeyCaps Facility for TyTN - Windows Mobile Development and Hacking General

Smart KeyCaps Facility for TyTN - Windows Mobile Development and Hacking General

Disclaimer (1): I posted this previously on a Hermes specific forum in late 2006, but I'm sure that's pretty much for users who tend to look for finished solutions, not programmers looking for challenges.
Disclaimer (2): I used to program back in college and in the first 10 years of my professional career (some of my code is still in the kernel of commercial U*X boxes from IBM and the base 486 AT&T SVR4 distribution). Also, I'm referenced a lot in the Lisp language newsgroups. Will this at least get my grandfather rights to post a request on this forum?
I'd love for the Hermes to have the same power as my Treo 650 keyboard did. There was a program called TreoCaps.
It operated thusly....
When typing letters, using the normal keyboard press, a normal key was inserted (usually lower-case, unless auto-caps was on). If you pressed the key down for like 300ms, it would change into an upper case. If you held it down for 600ms, it would change to the symbol character assigned to that key.
The blackberries have a similar function (which the TreoCaps program actually stole the idea from).
Has anyone written such a hack for the Hermes or WM5 w/ keyboard devices in general. I've gotta believe so, since in my recent experience with wm5, it's (a) a real multi-tasking operating system, and (b) it's loads more extensible than POS is.
Thanks,
-Humbert

Related

2005 will be launched in Feb 2005

See this link for details:
http://www.mypda.com.cn/info/show_info.asp?infoid=1491[/url]

Anonymous said:
See this link for details:
http://www.mypda.com.cn/info/show_info.asp?infoid=1491
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Appreciate the ++ search. One thing I have noticed is the inconsistency in the "Start button icon". Everyimage looked different!
I mean, this could be fake or even made up pics :roll:
Are we ready for another BGates newbie :roll:

You got that right Cyber mate.
Will the companies like FONO, Axiom, Comtel or Plug-ins void our warranty if we do decide to move to 2005 Mobile?

No it won't
Every Pocket PC release since CE2.11 (except for 2003SE) has comeout in the Spring. Along with new devices. This time will be no different.

after the win mobile 2005 comes out - will it be posible to upgrade our devices or they (the phone makers) should fit the win 2005 (by software changes) for the device first?
(as you guessed it - im new and my first device is the mini )

Looks to me like that start button is still the size of a pea - which means if you are using your hand on the home screen, its almost impossible to hit that in the corner. And this suposed to be a serious, native PHONE OS? Wow.....

skagen said:
Looks to me like that start button is still the size of a pea - which means if you are using your hand on the home screen, its almost impossible to hit that in the corner. And this suposed to be a serious, native PHONE OS? Wow.....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You've obviously never used WM2003. It's the same size as current version. You can touch the text or logo to access it and it's perfectly usable.
I would be nice to be proved wrong, but I very much doubt this will be made available on current devices. Their product life is just too short. It also looks like the UI is designed to use extra programmable menu buttons at the bottom of the screen, as on MS Smartphones. Few PPC PE devices have enough hardware buttons to support this.

Wrong. I have an I-mate Jam Phone (WM 2003SE). As I said, it is egnonomically retarded to make the HEART of entry into the device a tiny button crammed in one corner and taking up like 1/50th of the screen space.
If you were trying to make it harder to touch - you couldn't enough said.
And that is the START button? Wow! I'd love to know what Microsoft spends all their millions of dollars on usability budget on. That placement & size of the start button would get you an "F" if you were a student in design school. Its THAT elementary.
Its not just the "Start" button on the whole, the entire Win 2003 PPC OS is just very poorly sized considering that is suppesed to be a phone OS. Look at the notifications. You have to hit a thin ass line if you plan on turning it off. Want to close a windows, its a tiny ass x squeezed in the corner or a screen? I mean, hello.....
The should have tested these things with thumbs as well as styluses. Elementary design principles. Very elementary.
But that is exactly what heppens when you take a blinkered mentality ("we are Microsoft make Windows software for PC's". We must have a "Start" button - and put everything in there.") into the design of a thumb-operated phone.

skagen said:
Wrong. I have an I-mate Jam Phone (WM 2003SE). As I said, it is egnonomically retarded to make the HEART of entry into the device a tiny button crammed in one corner and taking up like 1/50th of the screen space.
If you were trying to make it harder to touch - you couldn't enough said.
And that is the START button? Wow! I'd love to know what Microsoft spends all their millions of dollars on usability budget on. That placement & size of the start button would get you an "F" if you were a student in design school. Its THAT elementary.
Its not just the "Start" button on the whole, the entire Win 2003 PPC OS is just very poorly sized considering that is suppesed to be a phone OS. Look at the notifications. You have to hit a thin ass line if you plan on turning it off. Want to close a windows, its a tiny ass x squeezed in the corner or a screen? I mean, hello.....
The should have tested these things with thumbs as well as styluses. Elementary design principles. Very elementary.
But that is exactly what heppens when you take a blinkered mentality ("we are Microsoft make Windows software for PC's". We must have a "Start" button - and put everything in there.") into the design of a thumb-operated phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
isn't that a matter of taste? i mean.. they COULD make the start button bigger but then maybe someone like I would say "hey its to big it takes up like ALL of the screen and i cant see my today screen" i for one have no problem using either the start button or the"x" button for closing using my thumb.
Maybe the best would be if one could maybe have like a stylus window (kinda like now) and a big button finger layout. just a thought.

It's not a phone OS, it's a PDA OS. I agree though, that the Smartphone Edition cound have an option to enlarge all buttons so that you'd be able to navigate with one hand.

Loboman said:
It's not a phone OS, it's a PDA OS. I agree though, that the Smartphone Edition cound have an option to enlarge all buttons so that you'd be able to navigate with one hand.
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Click to collapse
I dont know any indusrty analyst who does not agree that these devices are converging - which has clear implications for software and OS makers: phone interface gets used often and requires seamless finger usage. Especially on devices with no physical phone keyboard! No rocket science required there.
And once you start selling OS software tilted "Windows Mobile 2003 Se for Mobile Phone", you're on the hook to delver something that works appropriately as a mobile phone OS! There is no escaping that one.
Ditto when your OS is designed for devices such as the Moto MPX and the Jam and the Eten 500. These are devices clearly made for those who are phone-oriented and will carry the device in their pocket everywhere - as opposed to the XDA II buyer who is more or a PDA and phone is just tacked on. Its in the Microsoft business plan to attack the market for such phone-like devices to challenge the treo and Blackberry - so they've gotta deliver credible phone ergonomics too!
I'd understand the omissions in 2002, maybe even 2003. But to come out with 2005 (when convergence is patently obvious and they are pushing heavily to be a phone OS) and they are still missing the boat with "Windows for PC" as the bedrock of their ergonomics?
As I said, I'd love to know what their user experience research budget is going on. A bunch of first year designs school students would have picked up on the obvious - as you yourself agree: if its a phone OS, you must have an credible option to go stylus-less, espcially for those primary phone options. As it is we are still at the level where dialers and today screen add-ons are legitamate commercial software. The OS should have presented a legitimate soultion there. That would be live Windows Longhorm coming out and they have a 3rd rate browser and a 3rd rate search engine as default in the OS. That's just not on - it's your primary interface and the OS must offer something up to par there, otherwise you are forcing users into slow and memory-eating add-ons such as Mobi Dial.

Loboman said:
It's not a phone OS, it's a PDA OS. I agree though, that the Smartphone Edition cound have an option to enlarge all buttons so that you'd be able to navigate with one hand.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Errr.. please come back when you know what you are talking about. Smartphone Edition doesn't have on screen buttons - how can it when it doesn't have a touch screen. You *CAN* do everything with one hand. That's the whole point of the programmable menus at the bottom, one of which kicks off the Start menu.

Anonymous said:
Loboman said:
It's not a phone OS, it's a PDA OS. I agree though, that the Smartphone Edition cound have an option to enlarge all buttons so that you'd be able to navigate with one hand.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Errr.. please come back when you know what you are talking about. Smartphone Edition doesn't have on screen buttons - how can it when it doesn't have a touch screen. You *CAN* do everything with one hand. That's the whole point of the programmable menus at the bottom, one of which kicks off the Start menu.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
To make this clearer - all the menus on Smartphone Editions are linked to hard buttons on the phone. So the everything can be done one handed, and the size of icons doesn't matter jack sh*t. As for PE 2005 - that's why the new menus have appeared at the bottom - to give the benefits of Smartphone Editione on Phone Edition - so you don't have to touch the screen or dig out your stylus for common operations.
Why the obsession with the start logo, when tapping anywhere on the text will do? And why do you need to do this to get to the "phone" functions you keep banging on about? That's what the Green, Red, Contact and Calendar hardware buttons (and the Smartphone style "soft" keys) are for. What's difficult about that? If that's too complicated for you - maybe you should to go back to a Nokeeeyah!

I said the DEVICE is primarily phone-style one. Therefore the primary mode of use is fingers not stylus. - This means that various programs (which are buried in the start menu) need to be more accessible. Which is not the same thing as saying that its a phone and all you need is phone access.
If you think people buy a £400 PPC phone for calendar and contacts programs alone, then you dont know much about the market. The other programs the device runs need to be better accessible.
I couldn't care less if microsoft groupies are offended - it is a fact that Nokia has a better grips on the software ergonimics. If it makes you emotional, too bad. I'm more concerned with the fact that MS needs to think beyond the cliche and ergonimics of a Windows PC when they are designing a PHONE.

skagen, you are "gay" Go jackoff to your garbage Symbian OS which is buggier than bloody hell.

And Mikee you're an As*Hol* :evil:

Its a phone, dude. If it hs got things wrong with it, that's just the facts. If I though Symbian phones was better, then I'd buy a Symbian phone - duh! The Jam is better hardware than what's available on Symbian, but actually OS is not as intutive as Symbian.
This Win Mobile for PPC phone OS has some major failings and omissions - which is the very reason the XDA Develpers exists: til fill the gaps. And BTW, , we are not here to be teenage PPC fan-boys.That's for the kids on Howard Forums. This website here is about realistic assessment of these devices.

skagen said:
I said the DEVICE is primarily phone-style one. Therefore the primary mode of use is fingers not stylus. - This means that various programs (which are buried in the start menu) need to be more accessible.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You just don't get it do you? They ARE accessible without using the stylus using the fully configurable HARDWARE BUTTONS, D-PAD navigation, on some models JOG DIALS and START and CLOSE BUTTONS, and with 2005, the SMART BUTTONS linked to the context sensitive menus at the bottom of the screen. Sheesh!

skagen said:
The Jam is better hardware than what's available on Symbian, but actually OS is not as intutive as Symbian.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Have you actually watched someone using a Symbian PDA/Phone combo? Yes, that's right. If you're not dialing a number, it's time to tap tappity tap with the stylus. The P800-910 series have LESS buttons, and so LESS direct access to applications, (not to mention, many 1000 less aplications) than devices using PPC PE!

Anonymous said:
skagen said:
I said the DEVICE is primarily phone-style one. Therefore the primary mode of use is fingers not stylus. - This means that various programs (which are buried in the start menu) need to be more accessible.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You just don't get it do you? They ARE accessible without using the stylus using the fully configurable HARDWARE BUTTONS, D-PAD navigation, on some models JOG DIALS and START and CLOSE BUTTONS, and with 2005, the SMART BUTTONS linked to the context sensitive menus at the bottom of the screen. Sheesh!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The hardware buttons are already allocated for things that people would use. So its silly to be telling people "you can remap your contacts button to dictionary". Ok then - so how am I gonna get the contacts quickly.
On the Tungsten E, for example hit the center button on the D pad and you can immediately start pagig through your applications. Try that on the Jam- you cant. That's lame.

Protect You SOFTWARE

I know it is almost impossible to produce a software that is fully protected. In this I would like to share my experience in protection.
I developed a program that works in PPCPE and I have made a very good protection system….. I think
The protection system works as fallows:
- when the software is first install it capture the date of the installation
- it reads the device ID
- it ask the user for the program serial number
- I have two way of registering the system either through an SMS or through the web using a GPRS.
- The software combines the three number together using some equations to make it almost impossible to find out what I am collecting… also I use an equation verify if the serial number is OK since we are using SMS and it is very costly to send SMS that contains a wrong serial number
- When the user chose the method to register the number is send to my server and the server send back the activation key to the user PPCPE
- The PPCE will read the SMS and delete it and store this SMS in the database …
The above is to get the activation key
In the software the activation key is produce and I use “if statement” to compare the activation key which is stored in the data base and the one the software produce if they are the same it will execute otherwise it will stop execution
To make it very difficult for the hacker I use pointer in the program and in these pointer I add the protiction key to it and subtract the key the program produce to make the additon equal to zero if the two key are the same
The pointer point to each button and each menu item in the program
I hop this information will help and I welcome any comment

Hmmm, sounds nice...but is it worth all the trouble...especially the SMS route could complicate things, no?
Besides, with good debuggers is it not possible to NOP the check section or jmp it, applying a patch?
I would opt more for a good packer such as Armadillo, and protect it that way. It will obfuscate the code, has debugger protections built-in, splits codes and destructs IAT. Additionally, you could add nanomites to make unpacking even harder. Then use a simple license key system.

Yes you are write .. a good hacker can do that …. But
If you use the method of pointer it is almost impossible to get any thing out of the program and it will be use les for any body to use it
And also it is almost imposable to hack it

But armadillo is only available for x86 Windows. But your message is right, HappyGoat.

pointer protection: piece of cake!
Well, the pointer thing as you describe it does not sound too difficult to hack.
You said your software will take the address for a pointer, add the key the user has entered, and substract the one the program has computed so that it equals to zero.
So, this means that the shift is always the same, so if you can get the entry point for any button, you know which value to add to the key generated by your software. Since you don't obfuscate the code this is a matter of minutes to hack this. :roll:
UL

Re: PROTICT YOUR SOFTWARE
As an old cracker I can tell you that this algo would not be difficult to crack. You are not using EXE file encryption, anti-debugging, integrity checking, and other tricks that are used in good protections like ASProtect. They would take some hours to bypass. And playing with pointers can stop only kiddies. UnlockMe said why.
If a cracker would get one valid question-answer pair, he'll easily convert any program to a fully working version. And your code can be cracked without this knowledge.
- The software combines the three number together using some equations to make it almost impossible to find out what I am collecting…
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Funny. Why should the cracker try to "find out what I am collecting"? Why the cracker should be bothered with all this ****? There are easier ways.
also I use an equation verify if the serial number is OK since we are using SMS and it is very costly to send SMS that contains a wrong serial number
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Costly SMS? Even in Russia you can get free SMS subscription. I have free SMS + free GPRS + free incoming calls.
Your protection has at least one very thin part that makes it useless. I've seen the similar ideas before. But I would not tell you
And remember:
If it runs, it can be defeated. (c) +Orc
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

It is very nice to see people participates in a subject. I find it very interesting. And very helpful
I am not going to tell what I do but I am given a point to start to programmer
Chatty
Thanks for bringing this point. I can not find it also
UnlockME
I think it is very difficult to hack.
Imagine in my software I have 36 button and menu item. Each of them has a pointer. Let us say button one has a pointer value equal to 11675 let say it is stored in ptr
My key is 123456789 .. let say it is stored in a string str1
The key in the program is 908070605040302010 …… I use more encryption than that but this is just a demonstration
And let us say it is stored in str2
When you address the button you address it like this
Ptr = ptr – (str1[1]-str2[17])
As I mention I am not going to reveal the protection that I use.. I am only giving a point to start
There is more thing in it I leave it to your imagination ..
Mamaich
In my country each SMS cost the mobile owner 0.1 USD … I am not going to cost hem moony for a wrong entry
…….
I think I know what you are thinking …. If the key is produced in the program I can hack it … I hope the above example clear thing up
……..
if you know any EXE encryption or anti debugging software I will be thankful
……..
thanks every body for your replay
-------------------------
pleas remember I am not Claiming that my sAlgorithm is anti-hacked …. It is only an algorithm for protection that I came with

wwb95, I'm not going to disclose in this forum how to actually hack an exe, but what i can tell you is that pointer-based protection will only stop kiddies as Mamaic says.
a hacker is not always a bad guy, though often they use their knowledge for such purpose, but it is before everything a guy that has an extensive knowledge of development tools, operating system, memory management, ...
I can tell you that if you are going to protect your software with this pointer thing, please send me a link I'll be only too happy to provide it for free to the community with a working "yes-code". 8)

wwb95 said:
When you address the button you address it like this
Ptr = ptr – (str1[1]-str2[17])
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'll assume that (str1[1]-str2[17]) is always a constant for all Ptrs. Then you can easily find an original button handler (don't ask me how, newbies can check all function addresses, gurus can just look at the code, I'll use a different method), calculate this value and patch a program or write a keygen. And if it is not a constant - the process would not be much more difficult.
if you know any EXE encryption or anti debugging software I will be thankful
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't know any existing protection. Long time ago I was developing such a project, but due to a lack of time and no investitions I've dropped it.
Here is a crackme - http://mamaich.kasone.com/wz/crackme.rar
and a pre-aplha of protector - http://mamaich.kasone.com/wz/protector.rar
It can compress&encrypt ARM WinCE DLLs and EXE files, has minor anti-debugging tricks and primitive import/export/resources encryption. And thats all that was done. No API, no stolen bytes, no on-the fly decryption, no integrity checking, etc.
I would not publish its source codes nor continue the work.

My advice: give up trying to protect your app. It can't be done; anything can be cracked easily. You're only going to piss off your users when the complex reg scheme starts introducing bugs and instability.
All you really want to do is a simple registration scheme. You have to rely on people's honor.
At Airscanner we wrote a book showing how to crack software, with a couple of chapters on ARM-based cracking for Windows CE. But you can get more info, and better, for free at Kaos' website:
http://ka0s.net/
It has everything you need to get started in Pocket PC reverse engineering.
By the way, it's good to see +ORC referenced in this forum. Mamaich do I know you?

airscanner said:
By the way, it's good to see +ORC referenced in this forum. Mamaich do I know you?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Some time ago I was a regular poster on www.reversing.net and www.reng.ru and reader of fraviamb. Now I don't have time for that.
Maybe you've seen my name in "thanks" sections of some tools.

ZXEvil why are you posting that link on multiple topics? What is that file?

how to port a palm program to my O2

I started using the O2 about two years ago but realized that I couldn't let go of my Palm because of a program (MathPad). Does anybody know how to port this program to the O2 so I don't have to always bring 2 pda's with me (O2 and palm)? OR is anybody familiar with a similar program on the pocket pc OS. A short description of the MathPad below.
Aki
MathPad is a tool for solving and storing mathematical equations in standard algebraic syntax. It works just like the standard MemoPad app, except that if you write down an equation and tap the Solve button, it computes the answer and fills it in for you. These equations can be simple math expressions like "2+2=", or algebraic expressions using variables such as "sqrt(x+4) / acos(0.7) = y**3". MathPad provides operators for exponentiation, bitwise AND, OR, NOT, and XOR, bit shifts, integer or modulo division, comparisons, and Boolean logic. Functions for trigonometry (including inverse and hyperbolics), logarithms, and date manipulation are also provided. MathLib is required for use of the trigonometric functions, but all other features work on any Pilot-compatible PDA, running any OS version

if you by port mean recompiling then that very much depend on using what tool the application was made
if you just want to run the program ...
http://news.com.com/2100-1040-270567.html?legacy=cnet

There are a couple of palm emulators for pocketpc as well.
Some work very well.
V

Thanks Rudegar for the link. I found the article quite interesting. Wish they had some sort of trial version for the software. Getting the ROM seem quite tricky. I also noticed that it was dated 2001... any idea on where it is now?
Thanks too Vijay,
Would you have a specific emulator you can recommend? I tried it out when I first got the O2 but it never ran and I gave up on the emulator.

use styletap to run most palm apps on your ppc
http://styletap.com/
if you need help send me a pm.. your pinoy din dba?

TUTORIAL: Control issues of Java MIDlets – all secrets of button handling

Lately, with the advent of Opera Mini and the really excellent and highly recommended Gmail MIDlet and some quality games (see their list in the 10/19/2007 update of my 3D MIDlet article), there has been a tremendous increase in the demand for MIDlet-related information. This is certainly shown by the sheer number of MIDlet-related questions asked at XDA-Developers, probably the best, most lively Windows Mobile hardcore user community with the most posts. For example, today, I’ve answered at least 20 different MIDlet-related questions there. Quite a few, isn’t it?
Let me give you all another modest present: in addition to my already-published previews (for example, the 3D Gaming Bible, the 4pda.ru Download Bible etc.), another excerpt – a full chapter – from the forthcoming Bible. Yes, it’s coming and yes, I do try to get it ready tomorrow or the day after – everything, all accompanying screenshots and charts (the main chart; 3D games Compatibility Chart and JBenchmark Chart) are ready, I only need to consolidate all my thoughts into an all-in-one, still-somewhat-comprehensive Bible, which will, I promise, be MUCH better, will contain MUCH more information and MUCH more up-to-date than that of the Russian-only 4pda.ru. Now, look at the length of the 4Pda tutorial (and all the linked-in ones) to see how much information it contains Not very easy to come up with something that has even more info, is it?
Note that the MIDlet managers I refer to in the article can all be found in the main chart of the Bible.
1. Control issues
If you stick to either IBM J9 or TAO Intent (two well-known, established MIDlet managers with versions running even under WM2003(SE)), you’ll inevitably encounter major control problems with several titles. Either the WM5 softkeys or the D-pad won’t work, or none of them. If you, for some reason, stick to these MIDlet managers (also referred to as Kilobyte Virtual Machines, KVM’s), this chapter will be of extreme importance to you. Note that now that all WM5+ devices, Smartphones (Windows Mobile Standard), plain Pocket PC’s (Windows Mobile Classic) and Pocket PC Phone Edition (Windows Mobile Pro) devices alike support the, in general, vastly superior Esmertec and Jblend KVM’s, you should only do this if you really don’t have any chance of running Esmertec’s KVM’s or Jblend – that is, for example, if you have a WM2003 or WM2003SE Pocket PC or Smartphone.
However, even with the, in this regard, flawless Esmertec KVM’s and Jblend, you may still encounter problems with titles (mostly games) not supporting the D-Pad or situations (most importantly, Opera Mini and its modded version) where a MIDlet heavily depends on the hardware buttons. This means the chapter will be useful for non-TAO / J9 users as well.
There are three related (two of them being pretty huge and thorough) articles / tutorials at 4pda.ru explaining these problems and the way you can fix them. They all are linked from the main, first article in the main MIDlet manager thread. In general, they recommend the usage of a Chinese tool JavaMagic, which is supposed to help J9 and/or TAO users run their titles. In addition, the also recommend some always-on-screen numeric keypads to help numeric input and, finally, two other tools as well for MIDlet conversions. We’ll soon see whether JavaMagic is able to help at all and what you should do instead of using on-screen virtual keyboards. In addition, I – a veteran Java programmer and instructor – also explain what the control problems are caused by and why TAO and IBM J9 behave so strangely.
1.1 How it does work behind the curtains & fixing the problems with external hardware button assignment
First, let’s take a look at what problems you will face. This section will contain some references to Java; that is, the language the MIDlets are written in. Note that you can safely skip this section if you don’t know the language. If you do know it, or, at least, have some knowledge of how programming languages work, you might find this section pretty interesting.
A MIDlet, in general, implements the callback method ("function" in the traditional, non-OOP parlance) keyPressed(), which is called back when a button is pressed. This method is passed an integer (numeric) parameter denoting the actual ASCII character (or, with non-character input, scan, denoted by negative numbers) code of the button that has been pressed. If you’ve done any actual programming in any language (or are just computer-savvy), you will certainly recognize the ASCII character code values 48, 49, 50 etc. it typically has: yes, they correspond to the 0, 1 and 2 buttons, respectively (and the list continues).
Most MIDlets don’t directly act on this direct code, but give a call to the getGameAction() (a method in the superclass javax.microedition.lcdui.Canvas) to make the MIDlet manager convert this code to a symbolic constant. This is, in most cases, a much safer way to decide what has happened (what button was pressed). The sole reason for this is the following: D-pad-less phones (and many users) use dialpads (2 for up, 8 for down, 4 for left and 6 for right) instead of D-pads. This, unfortunately, results in different ASCII character / button scancodes returned. Using getGameAction() guarantees that these different codes (for example, except for TAO, the scancode -2 (with TAO, -57378) for the down arrow of the D-pad and the ASCII code 56 for the numeric button on the dialpad) are reported as DOWN events, independent of their original (numeric) value.
There are, unfortunately, some MIDlets that, at least in the menus, don’t adhere to this convention – that is, they don’t give an additional call to getGameAction() but try to directly process the parameter passed to keyPressed(). One example is Andreotti Racing (see "!!!3D_Andretti_ Racing_240x320.jar" in the main game compatibility chart), where the menus MUST be controlled by the dialpad (or numeric hardware keys), NOT the D-pad.
Also note that, regarding the special case of TAO, some games (for example, "!!3D_Micro_Counter_Strike_Beta.jar") might be hard-wired to both, most common D-pad and dialpad codes (again, -2 and 56 for downwards), instead of calling getGameAction(). These games will work just great with most MIDlet managers utilizing; however, TAO, which uses special D-pad scancodes (for example, -57378 for the "down" arrow, as opposed to the standard -2), D-pad-based control won’t work, only that of the (even virtual) dialpad. This is why this particular game can’t be controlled by the D-pad, only the hardware dialpad (or any software button input solution) under TAO, while, under all the other M3G-capable MIDlet managers (Nokia N95, Jblend, Jeodek M3G), you can use the D-pad for steering the car.
Fortunately, there is a very easy solution for all these problems. If you encounter a MIDlet that can only be controlled by (virtual) numeric keys (because, again, the game doesn’t use the additional getGameAction() call to be compatible with as many different KVM’s as possible), you might still add D-pad controllability by just using a button enhancer tool capable of redefining the four D-pad directions (currently, they’re PQzII, AEBPlus and the non-WM5-compliant buttonMax) and either the (slower) MortScript or the faster VJKeyPress to generate the actual keypresses – or, if you go with PQzII, the built-in keypress simulation feature.
This also applies to the great Web browser MIDlets Opera Mini and Opera Mini Mod, which add a lot of (with the Mod version, freely redefinable) shortcut functionality to (numeric) phone buttons. As they are inaccessible on Pocket PC’s without any kind of keyboard and pretty hard to access on phones with a slide-out keyboard (you always need to slide it open to be able to access the numeric row), in these cases, you WILL want to use external tools to simulate the dialpad button press using the hardware application buttons.
You can find extensive information on all this (assigning the simulation of dialpad keypresses to hardware application buttons or D-pad arrows) in the Button Enhancer Bible. Please do make sure you read it very thoroughly. Here, therefore, I don’t spend more time on this question.

1.1.1 On-screen dialpads – are they of any use?
As has already been mentioned, one of the 4pda tutorials (original (volta_john, 26.11.06 10:19:44); Babelfish; Google Translate) recommends installing on-screen dialpads for inputting numerals. I don’t think this is a good idea. First, you’ll need to run significantly smaller MIDlets than the native resolution of your screen so that the active MIDlet area and the always-displayed keyboard don’t overlap. This means you’ll need to stick to (at most) 176*220 MIDlets on your QVGA and QVGA or 352*416 (the hi-res version of Nokia’s traditional 176*208 screen) titles on your VGA Pocket PC’s. And, of course, you won’t be able to run MIDlets that stretch themselves dynamically to fill in the entire screen. This alone would make you forget the entire thing. Second, you’ll need to click on-screen buttons instead of just pressing the D-pad directions – as you otherwise would prefer. A pretty awkward way to control particularly games, isn’t it?
Note that you can avoid having to stick to significantly smaller MIDlets than your screen estate really is if you, as opposed to what the 4Pda tutorial recommends, a numeric input panel (or, if you don't mind the horizontal layout in no way representing a real phonepad) only brought up when necessary. I recommend assigning it to a hardware button (just assign <Input Panel> to a hardware app button in Settings / Buttons; this doesn't even require that you read and understand the Button Enhancer Bible); this will be particularly important with MIDlet managers that, on Pocket PC's, don't dispay the bottom bar and/or the icon to bring up the on-screen input panel any time (not only when a text input field has the focus.)
1.1.2 A full chart of all MIDlet manager scan/character codes & the return values of getGameAction()
I’ve also written a small MIDlet to display what the passed code before and after the getGameAction()-based translation are. As usual, I also provide you with the source of the MIDlet. The deployable JAR file is HERE. It’ll, first, display the numeric, and, then, the symbolic name of the return value of getGameAction(); finally, the original, unprocessed, original keycode. It also makes the system dynamically assign "Exit" to one of the two softkeys; the scancode of the other softkey (and, with Jblend, also the one which results in exiting; this is because of the differences in the callback processing order) will be displayed.
For example, upon pressing "2" on the dialpad, hardware or on-screen keyboard, if you see "1: UP: 50" printed on the screen, this means the following: getGameAction() returned the integer 1, which corresponds to the constant "UP". The original character code (it’s a positive number; therefore, it’s a real ASCII character code) 50 ("2" in ASCII). This is what you will see in all cases, with all MIDlet managers, except IBM J9, where this button, as with all other keypad numeric buttons, are unhandled and, therefore, no matter what numeric dialpad button you press, getGameAction() returns 0 ("Unknown"). Yes, you’ve read this right: the dialpad handling in IBM J9 is severely messed up: IBM J9 can ONLY be controlled via the D-pad, unlike with all the other MIDlet managers.
If you press the button 1, "0: Unknown: 49" means getGameAction() returned 0, which corresponds to the unhandled (unknown) case and the original character ASCII code was 49. This is the case with all MIDlet managers except Esmertec’s managers and Jblend, which assign one of the four gaming buttons, GAME_A, to the first dialpad button.
If you press the up direction on your D-pad, you’ll see the following with all MIDlet managers except TAO (the latter uses special scancodes):
"1: UP: -1"
This means getGameAction() returns 1, which, as we’ve already seen, corresponds to the "UP" symbolic constant. Finally, the scancode (it’s negative so it’s not a "real" character code) of the given D-pad direction is -1.
As has already been stated, TAO is behaving differently in this case (too); it’ll return
"1: UP: -57377"
instead. This, as has already been pointed out, is caused by TAO’s using entirely different scancodes than all the other MIDlet managers. Fortunately, this is correctly translated by getGameAction(). Still, if you try to play a game (for example, the already-mentioned Micro Counter Strike 3D Beta) that doesn’t give a call to getGameAction() but directly parses the actual argument of the keyboard handler (for "up", the ASCII code (50) of the dialpad 2 and/or the D-pad "up" scancode -1), it will most likely not work under TAO.
Note that the chart below, which shows how the different Windows Mobile (and, in addition, as a well-implemented, high-quality reference, the MIDlet manager coming with the Nokia’s current top-of-the-line, flagship model, the N95 and its newer versions like the N95-3 and the N95 8GB) MIDlet managers fare in this respect. Now, based on all explanations above, you’ll be able to understand what this all means.
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1.2 Strictly softkey issues & JavaMagic results
OK, now, from the D-pad and dialpad-related questions, let’s move on to the question of the WM5 softkeys. As you’ve probably realized if you’ve ever tried to deploy MIDlets under TAO, the right/left softkeys simply won’t work with most of them.
Note that the 4pda.ru folks state the TAO 11.x series, finally, fixed at least the softkey problems (as opposed to the 10.1 series); in this regard, I don’t think they are right.) Unfortunately, this is impossible to fix using the same method as above - that is, just assigning a scancode generator to the two soft buttons with a softkey-assignment-capable button enhancer or, if you don’t necessarily want them to be assigned to hardware softkeys, with any button enhancer – and even the built-in Buttons settings applet. The sole reason for this is that MortScript is only able to pass positive "scancodes" (that is, real characters) and the other two solutions, namely, PQzII and VJKeyPress, aren’t able to pass these particular scancodes either.
Unfortunately, these softkeys,
with several MIDlet managers (namely, the one coming with the Nokia N95, IBM J9, later – non-M3G-enabled – Esmertec Jeodek versions and TAO running on Pocket PC’s (but not on Smartphones)) don’t cause a callback to keyPressed() and,
in the rest of the MIDlet managers (that is, the ones where keyPressed() is called back) getGameAction() returns zero ("Unknown") upon trying to identifying them,
unlike with "traditional" direction, action and/or fire buttons where getGameAction() is the preferred way to see what really has happened and to guarantee compatibility with as many different MIDlet managers as possible. This all means MIDlets themselves must deal with direct scancodes and there're no helper methods (no getGameAction()-alikes) to guarantee cross-KVM compliance. As these codes are pretty much standardized, they have no problems with the Nokia / Esmertec / Jblend ones; this is why they do work. TAO, on the other hand, is, again, an exception, as it uses vastly different scancodes than any else MIDlet manager. This is why the softkeys of the vast majority of MIDlets, unless they have specifically been developed keeping TAO compliance in mind (the case with high-quality business / productivity apps like Opera Mini, the Gmail MIDlet etc.), will NOT work under TAO.

1.2.1 JavaMagic – is it really any good?
The related 4PDA.ru tutorial ((volta_john's post at 23.05.07 08:25:07) ; Babelfish; Google Translate) recommends the use of JavaMagic to fix this problem.
I’ve thoroughly tested JavaMagic with several games running on TAO with TAO unable to handle their softkeys (see their list in the main game compatibility chart). As it has turned out, in no configuration did TAO Intent become compatible with these titles. It was only in one case that the Action button became usable after the translation (TAO Intent uses a different keycode – it passes the ASCII code 13 instead of the industry-standard -5 scancode). In no other cases did any of the keys, let alone the softkeys become usable. Again, these tests were VERY thorough and, in most cases, I’ve tried to make the MIDlets compatible with TAO Intent with at least two (Nokia and Sony-Ericsson source compatibility mode) input configurations. The output configuration, of course, was that of TAO.
Because of these very bad results, I don’t think you should waste any time with JavaMagic. It simply won’t work. This is why I don’t present you any tutorial for JavaMagic either. Even if you don’t know Russian, you’ll be able to follow the really thorough tutorial in the above-linked post, particularly now that I’ve provided you with two different "translations". But, again, it’s highly unlikely it’ll work with you.
Following is the chart of my JavaMagic tests:
Note that there are two other MIDlet conversion suites, Motomidman and FullJava, explained HERE (rendor, 30.10.06 00:35:31) (Babelfish; Google Translate). They, however, seem to help even less than JavaMagic.
1.3 Summary
In this chapter, I’ve given you a detailed description of why
the left/right softkeys of the vast majority of MIDlets refuse to work under TAO Intent and the fact that this can't be helped
there are MIDlets that can only be controlled with dialpads but NOT D-pads in all KVM's
there are MIDlets not controllable with anything, not even dialpads, under J9 (again, J9’s getGameAction() returns "Unknown" for all dialpad buttons – a very bad KVM implementation in this respect)
why some MIDlets don’t support the D-pad under TAO, while they do support it under all the alternative KVM’s
To fix all these problems (except for the softkey problems of TAO Intent, which, based on my tests, do seem to be unfixable), I’ve also explained you’ll need external button enhancer and/or ASCII and/or keycode "injectors", as opposed to what, so far, has been recommended (that is, on-screen keyboards / dialpads).

Midlet Adaptation
Well, I asked Menneisyys about posting this, and was told to go ahead, so why not. One of my only posts here, and first time writing a guide for something like this so please bare with me.
Note: - Credit for the information in this guide goes out to Adolescent of HowardForums, UncleRUS, and the developers of JAM. I just compiled it in a more user friendly form with my own notes and shortcuts added.
Many people have complained before about installing this or that Java game on their phone, only to find that the keys partially work, or won’t work at all. Fear not! There is a way to solve this for those willing to put in a little effort and time.
There's no way to do it without modifying the game classes themselves (and inserting a bit of your own code), but the end result is well worth it. I’ve personally adapted well over 60 games for my Motorola E815, and then re-adapted them to work on my HTC Titan. I’ve included with this post a copy of the Keycode chart we compiled to aide in adapting these games.
In a nutshell, you must create a new class based on the javax.microedition.lcdui.Canvas (or GameCanvas, depending on what the game in question is using). Then you handle the keyPressed, keyReleased, keyRepeated, and getGameAction methods catching the PPC’s keycodes and passing the game class whatever keycode it's expecting.
For examples of what that means, refer to the post above this one. Thankfully, most java games use a standard template, and most JVMs for the phones, also use that template. (I know if a game runs fine in the Emulator I’ll be explaining, then it will work just as well on my Titan) If you haven’t yet, get a Midlet to show you your keycodes. I’ve included one in this post as well. Install it on your device and check what the directional keys/soft keys are. Chances are they’ll match up with either the “Emu” ones, or one of the other phones listed in the included chart.
Here's were the fun begins. Do not read beyond this if you don’t have patience, or the time to tinker and figure things out. You’ll only frustrate yourself.
Tools Used: (what I use)
Java SDK 1.5 (Or whatever the latest one is)
The latest JRE (Java Runtime Environment, free from Java’s website)
Sun Java Wireless Toolkit 2.5 for CLDC (free off the Java Website.)
Hex Editor (XVI32, freeware)
Archiver (WinRAR, trial version works fine)
JadMaker (Freeware)
So, first off, install everything. Personally, I kept it all in one spot, and made shortcuts to everything there so I could have my own little workspace.
Launch JadMaker, click and drag your Java game (the jar file) into it to get a proper working Jad file.
Launch the Java Wireless Toolkit, and go to “File” – “Create Project from Jad/Jar File”, and pick your new Jad.
This will create a folder with your games name in the “Apps” folder wherever you installed the toolkit. I installed mine to C:\Key Fixer\, so my path is “C:\Key Fixer\WTK25\Apps\<Game>\”
Click “Run” and give the game a shot, see if it works. Most games will work as is. You may get an error on same games about a missing “Nokia/mid/ui/FullCanvas.class” file. If you get this, refer to the “Other Notes” below.
Now we need to find out what class your game uses for its keys, and what style Canvas to use. So we switch over to XVI32.
After you load up XVI32, navigate over to \WTK25\Apps\<Game>\Classes. There may be a few, or there may be many. Don’t let it intimidate you. Start with the first class file, and do a search for “key”. If it doesn’t find any results, move on to the next. What your looking for are the keyPressed, keyReleased, or keyRepeated sections. Once you find a file with one or more of those, start over in that file and look for Canvas. You may find Canvas, or GameCanvas, and that will dictate what template to use. (Note: if you find BOTH Canvas and GameCanvas only work with the GameCanvas file.)
In the file your in, you need to make these changes now.
Search and replace: (case matters)
keyPressed
with
KEYPRESSED
keyRepeated
with
KEYREPEATED
keyReleased
with
KEYRELEASED
Now change one of the following.
If you’re working with “Canvas”,
javax/microedition/lcdui/Canvas
with
com/motoroladapter/patch/CANVAS
If you’re working with “GameCanvas”,
javax/microedition/lcdui/game/GameCanvas
to
com/motoroladapter/patch/game/GAMECANVAS
Once the changes are made, save the file and close the editor. Then copy the appropriate text file (canvas.java, or gamecanvas.java) into the \WTK25\<Game>\src folder. Open it with notepad, and make sure the key mappings match your findings for your device.
Back in the Wireless Toolkit program, click the “Build” button to compile the new class file, then click “Run” to test it out. This will load up a nice full phone emu, so play to your hearts content to make sure all is well. (This is also a great way to see if the game is one you’ll like before flooding your phone with it!)
Assuming everything is working okay now, use WinRAR to open the ORIGINAL .Jar file (NOT the one in the \WTK25\<Game>\Bin folder!), move that window to the side, and go into the \WTK25\<Game>\Classes folder, and click drag the new “com” folder, and the class file that you modified earlier with XVI32 into the WinRAR window.
Now you have a modified Jar file to put on your phone!
Other Notes:
When you try some games you may see an error about a missing nokia/mid/ui/fullcanvas.class file. If this is the case, use the attached rar file to place the “com” folder inside of your \WTK25\Apps\<Game>\Classes folder, then try the game again. It’s the Nokia API the game is looking for. When you do this, be aware that you will still have to edit the keyPressed, keyReleased, and keyRepeated sections, but that the file with the Canvas lines you’re looking for will be the FullCanvas.class file you just added in.
If you're getting IllegalArgumentExceptions it's because getGameAction is getting illegal values sent to it by the new code. (Some games work fine and ignore these, others don’t) Try changing the getGameAction method to this:
public int getGameAction(int i)
{
return i;
}
(In the files I included, the getGameAction function alread has both versions of the return in place, just one is commented out with “ // “, so just take those off and put them before the other one)
Hope that helps someone with getting some new games up and running! If you have questions, let me know

Artlan, you're GREAT! Thanks for the tutorial!

hi
first thanks for the good job
now i did as you said but in the part that i save the modified myclass.class after that i don't see any canvas.java files being created, i even tried the saved as but the created file is not readable
can you help me out thanks
(trying to run burnout on my i-mate jasjar)

aminfri said:
hi
first thanks for the good job
now i did as you said but in the part that i save the modified myclass.class after that i don't see any canvas.java files being created, i even tried the saved as but the created file is not readable
can you help me out thanks
(trying to run burnout on my i-mate jasjar)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
IIRC (can't really chck it now because I'm writing this on my N95, using a slooooow GPRSD connection) several KVM's run Burnout without key problems. that is, you don't need to use TAO. Did you read the MIDlet Bible?

The 'canvas.java' file doesn't get created, it's a pre-generated text file I included in the archive attached to the post. Hope that helps

Artlan,
Thank you very much for your amzing tuturial, it really works with i-mate.
just a little addtion for tolls, you will need also java sdk 1.5 for wireless toolkit to work
Thank you again

Thanks, I completely forgot about the SDK because I already had that installed for other things Glad you got it working on the i-mate!

Windows Updates: 8.1, Update 1, Threshold, Windows 9

Hi guys. For anyone else interested in this, some of you may also listen to podcasts like Windows Weekly or read articles from top Windows writers like Mary Jo Foley of ZDnet, Paul Thurott etc. Last I heard them say that it's 50/50, Micro employees are saying there isn't definitely an 8.2 (remember at this point Blue was in full dev last year), they could either skip to Windows 9, particularly as a branding refresh a la Vista.
What do you think? Will they? Do you want them to?
I do. I really think desktop users got shafted and I can't believe how many third party modifications it takes for me to get comfortable with Win 8. Reading the 'making win 8' blog I was excited. From the preview I was shocked so much was unfinished and gambled, unlike the Win 7 preview. The Xbox 180 rollback (and the firing of the Windows, Xbox chiefs and investor kick-out of the CEO) to me highlights a recognition of failure from a business point.
Edit - I'm going to upgrade my statement and say the world's largest PC manufacturer dissing the start screen and adding a third party menu - Pokki - is a result of feedback from customers and that I find it hard to believe how Microsoft couldn't add a full menu back in 9 at least alongside a start screen.
http://blog.pokki.com/2013/08/lenovo-pcs-now-come-with-pokki/

i don't care what they call it, as long as it's something worth upgrading to. other than my tablets, i have no reason upgrade any other computer i own or use to win8. windows 7 works fine for now.

Nice opinion piece, i couldn't care less what they call it.
As long as they don't A, force us to use metro all of the time or B, put the old start menu back in again ill upgrade to it.

SharpnShiny said:
Hi guys. For anyone else interested in this, some of you may also listen to podcasts like Windows Weekly or read articles from top Windows writers like Mary Jo Foley of ZDnet, Paul Thurott etc. Last I heard them say that it's 50/50, Micro employees are saying there isn't definitely an 8.2 (remember at this point Blue was in full dev last year), they could either skip to Windows 9, particularly as a branding refresh a la Vista.
What do you think? Will they? Do you want them to?
I do. I really think desktop users got shafted and I can't believe how many third party modifications it takes for me to get comfortable with Win 8. Reading the 'making win 8' blog I was excited. From the preview I was shocked so much was unfinished and gambled, unlike the Win 7 preview. The Xbox 180 rollback (and the firing of the Windows, Xbox chiefs and investor kick-out of the CEO) to me highlights a recognition of failure from a business point.
Edit - I'm going to upgrade my statement and say the world's largest PC manufacturer dissing the start screen and adding a third party menu - Pokki - is a result of feedback from customers and that I find it hard to believe how Microsoft couldn't add a full menu back in 9 at least alongside a start screen.
http://blog.pokki.com/2013/08/lenovo-pcs-now-come-with-pokki/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think - well, actually hope (so there's personal bias) - that the Windows team will come to its senses. A hybrid OS that runs on desktop/mobile and unifying look and feel was a good idea on paper. The problem was in trying to nudge desktop users to use Metro without touch capability. And that's where they are going to lose a HUGE segment of business.
Business wise most companies think 8 is another Vista and when XP reaches EOS they'll go to 7 and hope for the best with 9 - and it's coming. Historically Windows gets no more than 2 major updates in a life cycle and with 7 only getting one (so far) it's fair to suspect that Blue (8.1) may be it. Try to get more user approval on it and hope for the best with a new version. They could clean up 8, add a true "desktop/touch/hybrid" look/feel and slap a Windows 9 label on it... but here's hoping they'll spend the next 12-14 months really deciding what they want to do forward.

I really don't see the fuss over lack of a start button. What do people seriously use it for? Launching applications, shutting down the PC and accessing control panel (and related).
Launching apps can be done from desktop icons, modern ui tiles or simply go to modern ui and if the software didnt have a piece of crap installer when you start to type its name (dont even have to click a box or anything) it will list it. <- because that was so hard.
Shutting down PC, control-alt-delete or alt-f4 on the desktop or windows key + I to open the settings charm where you can click power > shutdown or here is a revolotionary idea for those with laptops or desktops within reach: press the power button and windows will prompt for shut down.
Control panel. Either try the launching apps thing above. Alternately, move the mouse to the bottom left corner so the little "start" thing appears, right click it, its right there.
I for one find windows 8 *easier* with keyboard and mouse than 7 was. I don't have a problem using modern ui apps with keyboard and mouse either. I have a word for those people who cannot work out how an app works on keyboard and mouse, its 6 letters long, starts with an R and has political incorrectness written all over it.

SixSixSevenSeven said:
I really don't see the fuss over lack of a start button. What do people seriously use it for? Launching applications, shutting down the PC and accessing control panel (and related).
Launching apps can be done from desktop icons, modern ui tiles or simply go to modern ui and if the software didnt have a piece of crap installer when you start to type its name (dont even have to click a box or anything) it will list it. <- because that was so hard.
Shutting down PC, control-alt-delete or alt-f4 on the desktop or windows key + I to open the settings charm where you can click power > shutdown or here is a revolotionary idea for those with laptops or desktops within reach: press the power button and windows will prompt for shut down.
Control panel. Either try the launching apps thing above. Alternately, move the mouse to the bottom left corner so the little "start" thing appears, right click it, its right there.
I for one find windows 8 *easier* with keyboard and mouse than 7 was. I don't have a problem using modern ui apps with keyboard and mouse either. I have a word for those people who cannot work out how an app works on keyboard and mouse, its 6 letters long, starts with an R and has political incorrectness written all over it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
To call me or anyone else that 6 letter word is clairvoyant of your personality. 18 years of using a start button doesn't go away quickly. Asking paradigms to change that fast is dang near impossible for most businesses. There should be at least a slight understanding of that.
In all fairness most of the big and powerful things you needed can be found in 8.1 preview by right clicking the Windows icon on the bottom right and does far more than I'll need. And with all due respect to your opinion, I have about 30+ different applications on my work PC that I use on a constant basis. Top 5 are in the toolbar (also having a challenge duplicating this in 8.1 preview - maybe someone can shed some light for me?) to avoid hitting that button. Rest of them are easily found because I set up my Start Menu to be as efficient as I need it to be. I'm trying to find a way to match that without having to go into Metro because honestly that takes more time. And please don't patronize me about going back to icons on the desktop - that's regressive to 3.1 and NOT progressive. Your power suggestions have also been around since at least XP so no new news there. I didn't know about being able to search for your apps within Metro and I will give that a shot and see if I reconsider. Moving the scroll bar on the bottom of metro to scroll to apps is VERY different than the touch response.
Notice I didn't trash the Metro UI concept, I think it's dead on for touch devices. I just think they can and should improve on the non-touch side where honestly most folks (and companies) do not need/want it... yet. Just like not every company embraces 64 bit OSes yet because they have yet to exceed the 4GB limitation. Again, just sharing my personal thoughts and those that I've heard at corporate levels so far. Not all of us are fortunate to be able to use the same OS at home and work. Many of us will always be behind the times in technology at the office - even if we work in IT.

Windows 9 or 99 - not a whole lot of difference
A side comment to the overarching theme of this thread: Windows 8.2 vs Windows 9 is purely a naming decision that has very little to do with what the actual product will look like. Certainly it has zero bearing on what features will go in.
It's almost certain that at the same time during Windows 8.1 development, the decision hadn't yet been made as to whether call the OS Windows 9, Windows 8.1 or what have you (hence the codename "Windows Blue").
Another good illustration of how naming doesn't mean a whole lot in Microsoft is the evolution from WinNT 6.0 to 6.1. On the client side the move was Vista -> 7 ("major" update), on the server line it was Server 2008 -> Server 2008 R2 ("small" update). But the magnitude of changes was of course very similar between both product lines.
Bottom line: don't get hung up on the naming aspect--it's like reading tea leaves. Look to the core of the product.

Before all the turmoil--reorg, lameduck CEO, Nokia acquisition--I was pretty confident of seeing Win9, as 8.1 was basically a polished 8, and 8 wasn't going anywhere. An 8.2 would only prolong the ignominy.
To have Win9, MS has to have an idea of how to substantively improve on Win8 (that users will buy into.) All present indicators are that that direction doesn't exist. The reorg will paralyze any new initiative, as will Ballmer's lameduck status. And digesting Nokia on top of those...well, turmoil would be putting it kindly.
There should be a new CEO next year (probably Elop, yuck). Lumias will be rebadged, and merged into the Surface effort. But integration and reorg for a company of MS' size will take 2-3 years at least. That almost certainly means we'll see another incremental Win release.
I expect 8.1's reception will be marginally better than 8, mainly because of XP's EOL and replacement purchases for those skipping over 8. The hardware (Haswell, Bay Trail) is better and will also help. But PC's glory days are over, more so because of MS' abandonment and ineptitude than from anything else. Not only on the software side, but hardware as well. OEMs are jumping off the listing ship, even faster now that MS is set to be a full-on competitor.
So how to fix Win 8.x within a year, with no new direction, and a paralyzed company? More TLC to its fast-shrinking cash cow, the desktop, would be a start. As before, I'd like to see a "Windows Classic" that again emphasize on desktop, perhaps with Metro as an optional component. I think a 1-yr allotment for this is doable, even given the dire circumstances. Metro, or Win Mobile (refurb'ed), can be an "essential" add-on, or a separate standalone. The step would be a good holding action.
This would require a revisit of MS' "one-size-fits-all" UI tenet, which isn't succeeding anyway. Metro on its own merits is nothing special, hence its force-feeding to Win users. But neither lame-duck Ballmer nor (likely) Elop has the vision to make a fundamental change. Elop did not turn Nokia around.
We'll see what comes out of the blender next year. For this year, I'll be upgrading to 8.1 and using it strictly as a desktop OS, ie an updated Win7. Metro will be excised, and all my tablet/phone needs will be (have been) met by Android. From what I see of the upcoming Win tabs, they all suck. High prices compared to Android, desktop apps that don't run well on tabs, and paltry selection of mobile apps (that are locked to MS' app store).
Anybody running 8.1 RTM (not RT) yet?
>unfortunately the great anti MS movement has done well in telling people what they should and should not like
Just have to comment on this. Get off the blame game shtick. MS' travails are its own doing, not from any "hater conspiracy" theory. Stop contributing to the childish squabbles.
>I didn't trash the Metro UI concept, I think it's dead on for touch devices.
I can't agree. Metro is still immature, as is MS' notion of mobile devices. Simple case-in-point: 8 does not support portrait use, most apps are landscapes only. 8.1's purported support doesn't compensate for the fact that current and most upcoming tablets will be 16:9. Try using one in portrait and see the awkwardness.
Metro has many other deficits, which I've pointed out before. Landscape orientation (and scrolling) is bad for long lists, among other things, which are best done vertically. Ever wondered why there still isn't a good file manager for Metro? Not to say that Android and iOS are perfect. Both have their foibles. But they're already far ahead in share and 3rd-party support.
>Windows 8.2 vs Windows 9 is purely a naming decision that has very little to do with what the actual product will look like.
What we're talking about isn't the numbering per se, but whether there'll be a substantive change for the next Win rev. The 8.2 vs 9 is a shorthand.

As far as substantive changes go, I can't predict the future, but I can say this. A few bugs can make a program completely unusable, but it doesn't mean that the program is necessarily total crap in its entirety.
Windows 8 isn't all bad. It has a few features which some users really don't like, but most of the new features aren't bad. They're good features solidly engineered. So it's very possible that an incremental release focusing on making these few problematic areas right could be a major hit.
A common perception is that Windows 8 is somehow so abhorrent that only a total rollback or a total redesign can possibly save the ship. I don't think it's an accurate assessment.

Its not a Blame game, its an observation from dealing with the public, in many cases for no justifiable reason or argument without substance a large portion of the geeky public/profession (note I am one as well) seem hell bent on slagging off anything MS.
It has its faults just as any organization does but some much of the tripe an miss information I have to wade through just to get to the root cause of the problem is staggering!! So no, its not about trying to partake in a childish game, its about trying to stop people being misled by so called experts and to make informed decisions based on fact
Sent from my Rooted Kobo Arc

>A few bugs can make a program completely unusable, but it doesn't mean that the program is necessarily total crap in its entirety.
Win8's issue isn't about bugs, but more fundamental: its design and structure, which were radically changed to fit the one-size-fits-all scheme. Users have not warmed to this direction, and at this point I can't see any change to Metro that can make touch use viable for desktops. While some here may differ on the finer points (or affiliation), it's safe to say that none here has yet to use Metro exclusively as a desktop replacement. It's almost a year since release. There are no more excuses.
>Windows 8 isn't all bad. It has a few features which some users really don't like, but most of the new features aren't bad. They're good features solidly engineered.
What's "bad" or "good" is an opinion. What's not opinion is Win8--ergo, Metro--adoption rate. It's abysmal. One may be an optimist and hope for salvation in 8.1 (or perhaps 8.2). MS certainly doesn't think 8.x will do so great, else it wouldn't have opted for the reorg, Ballmer wouldn't have been kicked out, and Nokia buy wouldn't be a necessity.
Put another way, it's not any one person's opinion that matters, but the collective opinions of Windows users. They've spoken, and I don't see any miracle on the horizon to change their tune.

People need to get the following in their head:
1) Desktop isn't going anywhere, stop dramatizing over the desktop vs metro bullcrap
2) Windows 8 does not force you to use metro, just the start screen, which is miles better than the old start menu.
3) Windows 8 metro works perfectly fine with keyboard and mouse. The R word is pretty much suitable for anyone who can't make the jump from start button to start screen. If you are that R, then you need to quit using a computer, that stuff aint for you.
4)Neither metro, nor the desktop will disappear in any subsequent versions of windows. Stop fearing/hoping.
5) it will probably take around 2 years until the next version of windows (9, momo, kiki whatever) comes along. Windows 8.1 is more like a service pack for windows 8.

garwynn said:
To call me or anyone else that 6 letter word is clairvoyant of your personality. 18 years of using a start button doesn't go away quickly. Asking paradigms to change that fast is dang near impossible for most businesses. There should be at least a slight understanding of that.
In all fairness most of the big and powerful things you needed can be found in 8.1 preview by right clicking the Windows icon on the bottom right and does far more than I'll need. And with all due respect to your opinion, I have about 30+ different applications on my work PC that I use on a constant basis. Top 5 are in the toolbar (also having a challenge duplicating this in 8.1 preview - maybe someone can shed some light for me?) to avoid hitting that button. Rest of them are easily found because I set up my Start Menu to be as efficient as I need it to be. I'm trying to find a way to match that without having to go into Metro because honestly that takes more time. And please don't patronize me about going back to icons on the desktop - that's regressive to 3.1 and NOT progressive. Your power suggestions have also been around since at least XP so no new news there. I didn't know about being able to search for your apps within Metro and I will give that a shot and see if I reconsider. Moving the scroll bar on the bottom of metro to scroll to apps is VERY different than the touch response.
Notice I didn't trash the Metro UI concept, I think it's dead on for touch devices. I just think they can and should improve on the non-touch side where honestly most folks (and companies) do not need/want it... yet. Just like not every company embraces 64 bit OSes yet because they have yet to exceed the 4GB limitation. Again, just sharing my personal thoughts and those that I've heard at corporate levels so far. Not all of us are fortunate to be able to use the same OS at home and work. Many of us will always be behind the times in technology at the office - even if we work in IT.
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You don't know me nor my personality. I think my choice of word is justified, nor did I call you it. I have not used the start button for 18 years, only about 10, but 10 years of start button usage I was able to throw away like an empty chocolate bar wrapper
I am running 8.0 not 8.1. Toolbar is working fine here. I also prefer a clean desktop, always have done, I do have My Computer, recycle bin and my account folder otherwise its empty.
You dont have to move the bar along the bottom of the start bar. On a multitouch trackpad (as on most windows 8 laptops and a few 7 laptops too, or a USB one) a 2 finger horizontal swipe, alternately it will respond to the scroll wheel on your mouse (or the scroll region on non multitouch trackpads or a 2 finger vertical swipe) and a 3rd option is to simply move your mouse against the edge and as you try to move the mouse further it scrolls in that direction. This works in apps too (although a few apps don't respond to moving the mouse against the edge in my experience, most do though).
The search function has actually changed between 8.0 and 8.1. In 8.0 start typing at metro it starts searching your PC by default but segregates results in apps, settings and files. Most desktop applications with a proper installer get listed under apps, a few things like putty or minecraft which dont have proper installers get lumped into files. In 8.1 it goes back to the old windows 7 style search without segregating the results. Both still have individual searches for store, bing etc (actually, here on 8.0 google chrome is listed as a searchable app too which is kinda neat, never noticed that until now). I find it incredibly quick to find things this way, just hit the windows key and type "beam" and its already listed Start BeamNG.Drive and Uninstall BeamNG.Drive as launchable applications, if I was searching for minecraft (pinned to start) I would need an extra click unfortunately but on 8.1 I wouldn't.
My only major metro complaints are lack of apps, lack of serial port access in the WinRT API (whether that be hardware, USB or bluetooth, not that windows distinguishes), blocking of localhost TCP or UDP connections (or any other network connection) and that control panel and file browsing should also be available in metro if metro is to be a viable system. On this machine yeah, perhaps I would rather use control panel in desktop mode, but it should be available on metro too. Lack of apps isn't something microsoft can do much about, that is entirely down to 3rd parties. I went to make an app but sadly microsoft say no serial ports and my application required it, I had a workaround which was to make the app communicate with a desktop application over a network and have the desktop application use a serial port, but thats both a) awkward and b) limiting as localhost is no longer possible so the desktop app would need to run on a second device which kinda defeats the point. I think 8.1 adds bluetooth RfComm support, it is possible to build up bluetooth SPP support in user code atop RfComm so at least 8.1 would allow bluetooth serial to an extent.

SixSixSevenSeven said:
I went to make an app but sadly microsoft say no serial ports and my application required it, I had a workaround which was to make the app communicate with a desktop application over a network and have the desktop application use a serial port, but thats both a) awkward and b) limiting as localhost is no longer possible so the desktop app would need to run on a second device which kinda defeats the point.
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Have you tried marshaling your data through the file system? Apps could communicate through metro app's local storage. It's hacky and it may require fiddling with permissions, but it could work depending on your latency requirements.

SixSixSevenSeven said:
You don't know me nor my personality. I think my choice of word is justified, nor did I call you it. I have not used the start button for 18 years, only about 10, but 10 years of start button usage I was able to throw away like an empty chocolate bar wrapper.
You dont have to move the bar along the bottom of the start bar. On a multitouch trackpad (as on most windows 8 laptops and a few 7 laptops too, or a USB one) a 2 finger horizontal swipe, alternately it will respond to the scroll wheel on your mouse (or the scroll region on non multitouch trackpads or a 2 finger vertical swipe) and a 3rd option is to simply move your mouse against the edge and as you try to move the mouse further it scrolls in that direction. This works in apps too (although a few apps don't respond to moving the mouse against the edge in my experience, most do though).
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Didn't say you meant it to me, just that there are a lot of people who would disagree with your thoughts. Please keep in mind - from a TS perspective we are outliers. From a corporate standpoint they have to look at the lowest common denominator - the users who muddle through using a computer just to get the everyday things done. They don't have a choice but to do that or not work. Not everyone even in Gen Y or the Millennials are tech savvy. (Women are sadly still behind the curve, something I'm going to make sure my kids avoid. Knowledge is power IMO.)
Your second paragraph is mainly targeting, again, a different segment than who I'm talking about. My concern is with the users that have box, wired KB/mouse and one screen and need it as simple as possible to do their job. These folks - some of which I am related to - are quite happy with their 2009 Core 2 Quad PC because it plays video and lets them browse the internet. Even if I build them another PC - and I did on the cheap recently - they have yet to touch it over the old system because they're comfortable with it. Ironic because you solve all their complaints and they still stick with what they know.
SixSixSevenSeven said:
I went to make an app but sadly microsoft say no serial ports and my application required it, I had a workaround which was to make the app communicate with a desktop application over a network and have the desktop application use a serial port, but thats both a) awkward and b) limiting as localhost is no longer possible so the desktop app would need to run on a second device which kinda defeats the point. I think 8.1 adds bluetooth RfComm support, it is possible to build up bluetooth SPP support in user code atop RfComm so at least 8.1 would allow bluetooth serial to an extent.
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What were you trying to use via serial? USB storage access? If so I think they're trying to pigeonhole it to the sever (SkyDrive) as that seems to be the way that it goes. All the reason why I keep very few apps with data on my Note 2 - and those that I do keep data locally.

daniel-s said:
Have you tried marshaling your data through the file system? Apps could communicate through metro app's local storage. It's hacky and it may require fiddling with permissions, but it could work depending on your latency requirements.
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Hacky indeed, but then so was my first thought. Latency is an issue, but file systems might *just* do it actually. Would have to think about that a bit more.
garwynn said:
What were you trying to use via serial? USB storage access? If so I think they're trying to pigeonhole it to the sever (SkyDrive) as that seems to be the way that it goes. All the reason why I keep very few apps with data on my Note 2 - and those that I do keep data locally.
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I've not heard of USB storage being done through an old fashioned serial/COM port which is what I wanted to use. Some people do still use their old RS232 ports or similar. In my case, I was initially aiming to have a serial terminal which could be attached to a raspberry pi, I was also planning a remote control type app aim at robots powered by arduinos and other microcontrollers. Communication from PC to microcontroller is almost always serial, even the arduino boards which supposedly have a USB port on them then have a USB>Serial adaptor before communication with a microcontroller (FTDI on the nano, an ATMega8U on the uno which is then programmed to bit-bang USB before comms with the ATMega328 powering the uno itself and a few others on 3rd party boards such as the CP2100 series IC's, a few boards don't have USB ports at all and require an external serial adaptor).
Linux can commonly be setup to display the shell over a serial port, the raspberry pi does this by default, by addition of a serial cable between the pi GPIO and another PC (with appropriate adaptors for the 3.3v TTL on the pi and whatever is on the host PC) you can run software such as PuTTY as an alternative to SSH. This is commonly done on servers connected to the internet which may have SSH disabled for security reasons as an attacker would be required to have physical access to the machines.

SixSixSevenSeven said:
Hacky indeed, but then so was my first thought. Latency is an issue, but file systems might *just* do it actually. Would have to think about that a bit more.
I've not heard of USB storage being done through an old fashioned serial/COM port which is what I wanted to use. Some people do still use their old RS232 ports or similar. In my case, I was initially aiming to have a serial terminal which could be attached to a raspberry pi, I was also planning a remote control type app aim at robots powered by arduinos and other microcontrollers. Communication from PC to microcontroller is almost always serial, even the arduino boards which supposedly have a USB port on them then have a USB>Serial adaptor before communication with a microcontroller (FTDI on the nano, an ATMega8U on the uno which is then programmed to bit-bang USB before comms with the ATMega328 powering the uno itself and a few others on 3rd party boards such as the CP2100 series IC's, a few boards don't have USB ports at all and require an external serial adaptor).
Linux can commonly be setup to display the shell over a serial port, the raspberry pi does this by default, by addition of a serial cable between the pi GPIO and another PC (with appropriate adaptors for the 3.3v TTL on the pi and whatever is on the host PC) you can run software such as PuTTY as an alternative to SSH. This is commonly done on servers connected to the internet which may have SSH disabled for security reasons as an attacker would be required to have physical access to the machines.
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Old AS/400 systems used a serial connection to get to the system controller and the fix was to use the USB to serial dongle. Made for a pain in the butt because very few devices keep a 9 pin serial port on them anymore. (Drivers were a pain to find though). Probably the only way you'll be able to pull that off going further - it seems very (VERY) few boards have the 9 pin serial anymore, even on docking stations.

garwynn said:
Old AS/400 systems used a serial connection to get to the system controller and the fix was to use the USB to serial dongle. Made for a pain in the butt because very few devices keep a 9 pin serial port on them anymore. (Drivers were a pain to find though). Probably the only way you'll be able to pull that off going further - it seems very (VERY) few boards have the 9 pin serial anymore, even on docking stations.
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Oh I have no problem using a serial port from windows 8 desktop. Microsoft just don't allow its usage from a windows 8 app.
My desktop PC which isnt even 2 years old does actually have both a full RS232 port and parallel port. I also have an FTDI cable (USB > 3.3v TTL serial) which works fine with my laptop, desktop and the pi itself actually (full FTDI drivers under raspbian and windows 8). Both of my arduinos are arduino nano's so also use an FTDI chip (using the same drivers as each other and the cable I have). One of my other microcontrollers is a bit of a pain but you can get it working with windows 8 too, have to disable driver enforcement before you can install them. Regardless, all 3 microcontrollers and on my desktop its native port are listed in device manager as usable COM ports, all of them work fine too.
One place you will still regularly find a DB9-RS232 port is scientific hardware. Many sensors/probes/data collection devices for use with a PC communicate via serial. Older devices (and a few new ones) from a full RS232 connector, some now use 3.3v or 5v instead and a few are advertised as being USB but in reality have USB>serial adaptors of some sort contained within.
Many android devices have a serial port available (usually 3.3v) via the headphone jack (often just sticking a resistor between mic and ground to trigger left and right audio function changes) or USB port (similar technique as the headphones) or more rarely the microSD

If anyone is interested in the podcast I mentioned, Windows Weekly, the URL is: http://leoville.tv/podcasts/ww.xml
In the lastest episode, Mary Jo Foley of here: http://www.zdnet.com/topic-windows/
tends to tell what's going on inside Microsoft. If you listened to back episodes she was talking about Blue right after 8 was released, she spills details really early and they do come true.
The other major host is Paul Thurott on the podcast, who writes here: http://www.winbeta.org/
The last thing they said, just as e.mote calculated, was that the company is in disaray and will slow down significantly since the Nokia acquisition and that it could have been an 8.2 but for a brand refresh they could skip to 9. 9 in that case would be a mixture of returning some of the key 7 features and polishing 8. I'll post here if there's any more, same if you guys know anything! I'm interested to see how this develops.
I remember going to the Win 7 launch at the time. One of the first things the Micro guy said on stage was that 7 was 'Vista fixed'. I couldn't believe he said that on stage. So instead of a fixer service pack they jumped to 7 and it was partially a brand refresh. Who knows now?

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