Related
I downloaded the new ROM and I can't get the GPS to work at all. I wonder if my unit even has the GPS. Is there a way to find out if it does. I know the model is a PPC6800SP. I wonder if the SP stands for something.
I believe all the 6800's have the same qualcomm chip. I had trouble the first time with google maps and gps, then I walked a couple of blocks away and it was able to lock on. Try taking the phone for a short ride and see if that works.
jelsea said:
I downloaded the new ROM and I can't get the GPS to work at all. I wonder if my unit even has the GPS. Is there a way to find out if it does. I know the model is a PPC6800SP. I wonder if the SP stands for something.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm sorry to let you down but I have a PPC 6800 and Yes it have GPS and yes you may download the las ROM from sprint but if you reed well there is no GPS ON right now the page say that for the 1Q of this year they "plan" to release a new ROM to "enable the GPS" the 1Q ends on march so we only have to wait...
To me friendly I don't personally I don't think they will enable the GPS because apparently the problem is no the GPS it is the antenna that in the original design was not design to be a ''Full GPS" it was design to be an "emergency GPS" and that is a big difference from a GPS to let the 911 know were you are between to antennas... and other thing is from you to get signal from a GPS satellite they are trying to get a "non real gps to work as a real gps" via software...
At least that is what I know about it I'm still waiting for the update... too...
For you to be happy yes we have a GPS antenna no full antenna but hey it is an antenna, we have the gps windows drivers for gps inside our phone, we have the com 9 open and sending info to the gps antenna, and we have a chip capable of prepossessing all the gps technology...
Pray and Wait.....
Lowenski said:
I'm sorry to let you down but I have a PPC 6800 and Yes it have GPS and yes you may download the las ROM from sprint but if you reed well there is no GPS ON right now the page say that for the 1Q of this year they "plan" to release a new ROM to "enable the GPS" the 1Q ends on march so we only have to wait...
To me friendly I don't personally I don't think they will enable the GPS because apparently the problem is no the GPS it is the antenna that in the original design was not design to be a ''Full GPS" it was design to be an "emergency GPS" and that is a big difference from a GPS to let the 911 know were you are between to antennas... and other thing is from you to get signal from a GPS satellite they are trying to get a "non real gps to work as a real gps" via software...
At least that is what I know about it I'm still waiting for the update... too...
For you to be happy yes we have a GPS antenna no full antenna but hey it is an antenna, we have the gps windows drivers for gps inside our phone, we have the com 9 open and sending info to the gps antenna, and we have a chip capable of prepossessing all the gps technology...
Pray and Wait.....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
im sorry that your massively misinformed why dont you go take a look in the titan upgrading forum, theres a gps test rom that got leaked that enables gps.
jelsea said:
I downloaded the new ROM and I can't get the GPS to work at all. I wonder if my unit even has the GPS. Is there a way to find out if it does. I know the model is a PPC6800SP. I wonder if the SP stands for something.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Im gonna agree with UltimatePG, try it again. Make sure you are outside and can see the sky clearly (shouldnt matter but sometimes it does). also might wanna try a different app to connect. try google maps or try wififofum. my gps works on com4, might be the same or different for you, im not sure.
I would say try the Sprint Navigation App, since it is the only one that has worked for me the first time and every time. Stand outside, not near a window, not in your basement, outside.
Then wait, let it get sats, it might take a few minutes the first time but it will work.
Good luck!
Lowenski said:
I'm sorry to let you down but I have a PPC 6800 and Yes it have GPS and yes you may download the las ROM from sprint but if you reed well there is no GPS ON right now the page say that for the 1Q of this year they "plan" to release a new ROM to "enable the GPS" the 1Q ends on march so we only have to wait...
To me friendly I don't personally I don't think they will enable the GPS because apparently the problem is no the GPS it is the antenna that in the original design was not design to be a ''Full GPS" it was design to be an "emergency GPS" and that is a big difference from a GPS to let the 911 know were you are between to antennas... and other thing is from you to get signal from a GPS satellite they are trying to get a "non real gps to work as a real gps" via software...
At least that is what I know about it I'm still waiting for the update... too...
For you to be happy yes we have a GPS antenna no full antenna but hey it is an antenna, we have the gps windows drivers for gps inside our phone, we have the com 9 open and sending info to the gps antenna, and we have a chip capable of prepossessing all the gps technology...
Pray and Wait.....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is so last year....
It turns out,after all the people talked down to people who suggested that the mogul; had full gps,after all the snide comments and flames to people who suggested that it really had it,based on the chip specs,and after all the people who told others to "STFU,the mogul "ONLY" has AGPS and will never get "REAL" gps, that the test rom that was released does in fact enable full gps functionality (as well as the coveted EVDO rev A) that so many people wanted. I am typing this,connected to the internet over a rev A connection. I tried out tom-tom navigator sunday when I drove to see my GF. Its real,its here,and it rocks.
jelsea said:
I downloaded the new ROM and I can't get the GPS to work at all. I wonder if my unit even has the GPS. Is there a way to find out if it does. I know the model is a PPC6800SP. I wonder if the SP stands for something.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
it has GPS in it. I ended doing a search for "gpsinfo.exe download" (no quotes) on google and found a small app that displays your satelite info. Some people have reported that it can take up to 45 minutes for the phone to get a good connection. Mine took about 20 minutes before it found any satelites, now it finds them very fast. The first time takes awhile. So grab a cup of coffee and fire up either google maps or gpsinfo and stank outside for a bit.
Beta Testing
XmentalX said:
im sorry that your massively misinformed why dont you go take a look in the titan upgrading forum, theres a gps test rom that got leaked that enables gps.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes I try the new rom and iGuidance works find but google earth no and other programs seems not to work right and the ROM have many stability problems I hope when they release the final version will be more stable....
Sorry for miss informing.... but I still think people can start working in a more intelligent way like for example the ATI drivers.... and many other thing companies do not take the time to make them work find from the first time...
Why if you have a Phone capable of GPS why you just no enable it before marketing, why if we can have ATI acceleration we don't...
and let me tell you I have tested the GPS of the tilt and works much better than the mogul new ROM....
Lowenski said:
Yes I try the new rom and iGuidance works find but google earth no and other programs seems not to work right and the ROM have many stability problems I hope when they release the final version will be more stable....
Sorry for miss informing.... but I still think people can start working in a more intelligent way like for example the ATI drivers.... and many other thing companies do not take the time to make them work find from the first time...
Why if you have a Phone capable of GPS why you just no enable it before marketing, why if we can have ATI acceleration we don't...
and let me tell you I have tested the GPS of the tilt and works much better than the mogul new ROM....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
wow -- between you two messages you said two totally different things. First you said you don't have GPS and Sprint will never have it, then you say you are testing it and that you have even played with a tilt.
Strange -- I'm confused.
i read something a while back about someone who had disassembled a mogul and found it just had a dummy antenna where the gps antenna should be, i cant find a link now because google only shows all the new pages with info on the leaked update, but i suppose it could be possible there are some moguls out there with gps but no antenna
i too think its funny about all those snide people who said it only had agps. i hope they're going back to take a long look at their posts..ehheheh
Making Strange thing Clear
quantumforce1 said:
wow -- between you two messages you said two totally different things. First you said you don't have GPS and Sprint will never have it, then you say you are testing it and that you have even played with a tilt.
Strange -- I'm confused.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm so sorry about all people confused... Well Yes I have tested the Pre-Release of the new upcoming ROM from Sprint.... I have a PPC 6800 (Mogul) I have tested the HTC Tilt that my friends own... The gps in the 6800 is working kind of slow in comparison to the gps of the tilt my gps is working in COM4: at 4800 bps
and the GPS in the tilt works on COM4: at 9600 bps the New rom for the 6800 have a lot of problems it have problems connecting to the internet... have stability problems, some times the Display do not turn on, some times tis freeze, some times you are in the middle of a call and you los the audio... and many other problems...
The slow speed of the GPS let me thinking about the antenna problem.... I have seen 2 different models of the Mogul I don't know if one of the other have no GPS or what...
But When I write my first post I did no see another post in wish is available the new ROM I only have the facts of the problems with the GPS and the antenna Now I'm running at
ROM 3.16.651.0
Radio version: 3.27.00
I strongly suggest for everyone to wait until Sprint release the Final version of the ROM like they say they will on March... if it happen...
Any one wish need some print screens I can e-mail them....
Thanks
Low Baud Rate
I wouldn't be too concerned with the low baud rate of the GPS.
GPS only needs to send a minimal amount of data...and 4800 bps is more than sufficient to handle the necessary data.
As far as the stability issues, the ROM being used is nowhere near a "final product". I would also attribute most of the problems to the ROM and not the GPS
As far as the lack of support for GPS from HTC, you need to remember between Sprint and HTC, there have been a lot of issues with supporting features that were built into the phone. Remember the 6600 EVDO issue?
Now, to the guy who cannot get GPS working.
Load google maps, does it say "acquiring satellites"?
It does? Good...
Now, place your phone on your car's dashboard.
Drive around for 20 minutes(hopefully away from tall buildings).
Now, pickup your phone and look at it. It should have your position.
GPS signals are VERY weak. In comparison to most other signals, the signal degradation is INSANE. However, it is much easier to keep a signal once you have acquired it. So, once you get that signal, it should be easy to keep locked
Also, after you have acquired satellites your GPS can do a much better job at 'guessing' what to look for. So when you turn it off and then turn it back on, it can guess at GPS satellite location(I am severely oversimplifying everything).
I have loaded two GPS roms. Each time, I had to drive the car around to get a signal(even after standing outside my home for 20 minutes). The car is more comfortable, easier to maneuver into an open area, and it should work within a few minutes.
I'm trying to figure out if anyone else is having this problem.
Got my G1 on the 21st. been playing with a few things and the laundry list of UI annoyances is getting longer by the minute.
but overall quite impressed. Here's a weird one.
Google Maps (on G1 of course) cannot locate my phone - at all - with wifi OFF and gps OFF.
I am in a 3G zone. Google Maps on my HTC Touch worked fine (EDGE only of course)
So I looked around and found a reference somewhere stating that cellid geolocation does NOT work in 3G areas.
Is this true of all 3G phones?? If so it's very strange - because I like to keep 3G on but when I am indoors or for that matter when I want to save battery I turn off GPS and wifi.
So why the hell would they not be able to geolocate by cellid?
I tested it on my G1 and it's true - as soon as you turn off 3G (Settings->Wireless Controls->Mobile Networks) then cellid Geolocation works fine.
Just thought people might want to know and I'm curious if anyone else has the same problem.
Nick
I heard from a network engineer that all of the 3G hardware was rapid deployed and configured to minimum specs which happened to NOT include enabling aGPS. It was either an oversight or a timesaver. This will be fixed, it is a known issue. All the techs are still in the middle of the initial deployment and rapid expansion before the end of the quarter.
I HOPE to god Tmo can stop the ATT commercials that brag about the fastest network in the US after this quarter.
that only kind of makes sense...
I mean sure - it's all new etc...
but the point is that the network is not doing the a bit of the aGPS - google is.
Google does a lookup of the cellid in its database - and presumably does not have any information on the new cellids.....YET.
I just find that weird - I am in the metropolitan LA area and you would think with all the hoopla of this launch and the financial might of google they could have gotten it together by now - I mean these towers didn't go up yesterday...
Nick
syrusfrost said:
I heard from a network engineer that all of the 3G hardware was rapid deployed and configured to minimum specs which happened to NOT include enabling aGPS. It was either an oversight or a timesaver. This will be fixed, it is a known issue. All the techs are still in the middle of the initial deployment and rapid expansion before the end of the quarter.
I HOPE to god Tmo can stop the ATT commercials that brag about the fastest network in the US after this quarter.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
nickybee said:
Google does a lookup of the cellid in its database - and presumably does not have any information on the new cellids.....YET.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
erm, is that how aGPS works on the G1? That's stupid. I was under the impression that it worked like normal aGPS... I.E. -
Phone: Where am I?
Tower: You are @ 33.12345/32.12345 accuracy 2000 meters
Tower: GPS sattelites G51, T85, R14 are 3 strongest
Phone: Fed GPS data to GPS radio, warm start for 10 sec lock as opposed to over a minute for a cold start lock.
And I am also under the impression that alot of the 3G hardware wasn't configured with the appropriate data (position with est of accuracy based on closest towers and affinity and the 3 strongest GPS signals for that area). The issue was noticed and any new hardware should be fine. Problems will be resolved as the expansion portion of the project begins and all of the areas are revisited.
Where did you get your info nickybee?
aad4321 said:
agps works fine with me on 3G....
also under settings...security and location.... if you look under "use wireless networks" it says with that turned on, it uses wifi and cell towers for location. I would imagine with this off, it will not geolocate through towers...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yes that was turned on on my G1 of course.
and no it still doesn't work.
nick
hey syrus - I didn't mean aGPS - I was just referring to the (a) part of the GPS.
i.e. there is no Phone saying "Where am I"
it goes
GMaps application: "What's my cell id?"
Phone: "It's ABC1"
GMaps application: "Hey Google dbase - where's cellid ABC1"
Google: "ABC1 is at 33.12345/32.12345 accuracy 2000 meters"
As to where I get my information from it's out of my ass
I accept that I could be totally wrong - but I assume that google does not go to the carriers for cellid information - it just drives around with the mobile vans and captures GPS data for Wifi and cellid simultaneously. Since the towers are quite new - their data has not been captured yet
Nick
syrusfrost said:
erm, is that how aGPS works on the G1? That's stupid. I was under the impression that it worked like normal aGPS... I.E. -
Phone: Where am I?
Tower: You are @ 33.12345/32.12345 accuracy 2000 meters
Tower: GPS sattelites G51, T85, R14 are 3 strongest
Phone: Fed GPS data to GPS radio, warm start for 10 sec lock as opposed to over a minute for a cold start lock.
And I am also under the impression that alot of the 3G hardware wasn't configured with the appropriate data (position with est of accuracy based on closest towers and affinity and the 3 strongest GPS signals for that area). The issue was noticed and any new hardware should be fine. Problems will be resolved as the expansion portion of the project begins and all of the areas are revisited.
Where did you get your info nickybee?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i never used the built in gpa, so far.
I use my bluetooth keychain gps. had it from my old excalibur.
works great
nickybee said:
GMaps application: "What's my cell id?"
Phone: "It's ABC1"
GMaps application: "Hey Google dbase - where's cellid ABC1"
Google: "ABC1 is at 33.12345/32.12345 accuracy 2000 meters"
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Erm, you know now that I look at it Google is implementing SOMETHING new, I don't know how far they are taking it. Traditional aGPS has been around for a long time now, Google was never involved. I believe that at this point, with this version of Android things are still working the way they always have.
But! Did you notice the setting also indicates that the phone can find your location by wifi stations? I BET google receiving GPS data from users while they are connected to WIFI networks.
And then there's things like this below... ahh
http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20071116-its-official-google-planning-700mhz-bid.html
Who knows, but I think as far as cell tower based aGPS is concerned android sticks with the basics. It's one data packet sent to the tower, and one back, rather than setting up a connection making a database query and receiving a reply.
They probably envisioned something like...
Phone: Where am I?
Tower: Shiii I dunno where you aaat?
Phone: Grrr, Google! I am connected to wifi access point "ATT" with SSID:12345678945 Where am I?
Google: Looks like syrusfrost was there last week, he was at 32.12345/33.12345 and he used GPS satellites.....
I really don't know how google is doing the Wifi geolocation, they may be parsing some of the wardriving databases out there for the major metro areas, hell when you drive with maps and wifi on you may be wardriving for google, wouldn't that be interesting...
Mikey1022 said:
i never used the built in gpa, so far.
I use my bluetooth keychain gps. had it from my old excalibur.
works great
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hows the battery life?
Hello
I am currently looking into investing and getting a new phone. I own a omnia 910 now and the GPS is not that good.
When I was researching the Incredible is says the GPS is enabled. I am assuming that means Unlocked and I can use Google maps and other gps software. (Especially Golf GPS).
How good is the Gps chip in this phone?
Thank you.
google maps (with voice navigation) works great.
GPS and AGPS work fine for me.
First android device, best "my location" and gps device I've owned. Locking indoors in seconds. And I have been from the apache to the mogul to the touch pro to the diamond to the touch pro 2 to the imagio and finally to the incredible. Best so far.
bdaviskar said:
Hello
I am currently looking into investing and getting a new phone. I own a omnia 910 now and the GPS is not that good.
When I was researching the Incredible is says the GPS is enabled. I am assuming that means Unlocked and I can use Google maps and other gps software. (Especially Golf GPS).
How good is the Gps chip in this phone?
Thank you.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I had the i910 Omnia previously. I then had the Eris and now the Incredible. The Omnia doesn't even compare with either of these Android devices, both in overall performance and in regards to the GPS. You will be very happy with the GPS in the Incredible.
I agree with the 2 above posts. I came from a Touch Pro2, and that would sometimes take 1-2mins to get a lock.
The Incredible never takes more than 15 seconds, normally under 10 seconds. It also has far greater success with indoor locks. It is hands down the best GPS device I have ever owned. This would be my 4th GPS device.
Thank you for your replies!!!!!
GPS is very Important to me.
The Samsung GPS is pretty marginal. I had a Saga. Forget using it indoors or while moving. Most of the time I used wifi for a quick accurate fix.
HTC seems to have the best gps chip despite the fact that they should all be using the Qualcomm gpsone chip. The Inc is instant.
Omnia i910 newest ROM never really unlocked aGPS making getting a GPS lock slow. There were tips and tricks but not what you most likely were looking for.
The DI has excellent aGPS abilities that you can use with even the GPS off to save power. Lock with GPS is very good outside.
Excellent GPS , your location in seconds , vzw doesn't lock down the GPS anymore.
jbh00jh said:
Excellent GPS , your location in seconds , vzw doesn't lock down the GPS anymore.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is awesome news to me
GPS needs data connection for maps and navigation info
The one thing to note on these is if you do not have a data connection, it will not pull the map info for your current location or be able to pull driving directions for any locations you do not already have in cache.
While this won't make a big difference for most, don't count on it being your GPS device if you are off in the woods somewhere with no data signal.
****************************************************************
"EDIT" UPDATE (7 oct. 2010)
Well you dont need to go actually much further then this first post!
Things got out of context over here, furthermore I decided to give
my external gps receiver a break and run some more tests with
the internal one of my SGS.
And the results I got were much better than any
other phone I tested before. Except the ones with a build-in SirfstarIII chipset.
If you have Gps issues,Just move on to this thread:
2nd edit (20 Oct, 2010): That thread was removed without any warning or explanation so I posted the videos in another thread:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=8903056#post8903056
END EDIT
RCinFLA said:
Like to share my experience as cellphone chipset designer and my dealing with various parties involved with GPS in phones.
Many of the issues are caused by business interests involved and there are quite a few parties plying to control location based services revenue stream.
SUPL, secure user plane protocol AGPS was created by network operators interest in mine, with the objective of putting them in the controlling position when it comes to extracting revenue from location based applications on their network.
Control plane AGPS is a general system where network operator independent entities can create a assist server along with possible services offering. They can encrypt their access to allow only subcribed (paying) users to access their service. The network operators has little control over this scheme.
With SUPL, in most cases, network operators outsource the location server function. Network operator hold location of their cell tower, as a total database, in close confidence. The network tower locations are also very dynamic over time. I believe the AGPS contractors don't get reliable and timely updates from the network operators.
Then there are third party business like 'Skyhook' which is trying to work around the network operator roadblocks by establishing a 'ponzi scheme' server database. If your phone has a good GPS location lock and detects a WiFi network, Skyhook's background app will have your phone send a message to their server reporting the SSID of the WiFi and its location. They then sell their server AGPS service to other companies, like Motorola, for inclusion in their phone software. Motorola may run into conflict with network operators. A network operator might refuse to buy a Motorola phone model with Skyhook installed on it. I noticed from the Captivate forum that the ATT version of Galaxy S has Skyhook capability.
Google is the 900 pound gorilla and is trying to wrestle control of location based services from network operators.
Finally there are the GPS chip manufacturers. Almost all of them have an AGPS server scheme of their own and try to promote it. The frontend processing (up to recovery of raw 50 bps satellite data) has unique hardware and firmware that are considered proprietary by the GPS chip manufacturer. In most cases a phone manufacturers like Samsung or Motorola are not allowed to have the software source code for this firmware or information on the actual interface protocol to the GPS chip. They are given a bundled binary file that the phone manufacturer software just dumps to the GPS chip at startup.
It is now up to the phone manufacturer to implement the GPS chip and antenna systems (along with WiFI, Bluetooth, Near Field Comm, and multi-band cellular) and provide software interfaces and drivers necessary to run the GPS function.
For size and cost reasons most recent GPS chips rely on the main application processor within the phone to actually do the GPS fix calculations. The software for this is provided by the GPS chip supplier but it must be coordinated with the particular applications processor chip used by the phone. It must share processing time slicing with the apps processor and work with operating system software resources such as RAM and ROM management running on the phone.
This is the first obsticle as most of the GPS chip suppliers have little expertise in the OS's that may be used (like Android or Symbian). The phone manufacturer usually has to provide help to create and debug the GPS driver software but the drivers are responsible/owned by the GPS chip supplier. There can be unique hardware/software interfaces that must be dealt with, like providing GPS TCXO calibration and cellular corrected frequency timebase to the GPS chip.
Then there is the OS's GPS interface. There can be translation software layers involved here. One such interface is based on GPS NMEA protocol but with additional hooks for things unique to phone operation like battery saver power strobing, and the complicated Secure User Plane or Control plane interface.
The AGPS system design landscape is litered with intellectual properties (patents) by many parties. Qualcomm is a dominate player here since their aquistion of SnapTrak company years ago. Royalties are paid to Qualcomm for every WCDMA phone sold, not only in AGPS area, but on basic CDMA patents used in a UMTS (Wideband CDMA) phones.
Now as to Samsung Galaxy S implementation of Broadcom GPS.
I think there is a lot of evidence that Samsung had early issues with the GPS antenna contact hardware. This has probably been corrected on recently manufactured phones.
I think the firmware supplied by Broadcom has the bandwidth of the correlators tighted down to provide greater sensitivity. This is great as long as there is a very good AGPS system to provide initial satellite ephemeris data. Without a good AGPS network providing satellite information the initial search and lock can take a very long time with narrow bandwidth frequency bins.
I have not seen evidence with my experience that my two Vibrants are receiving any reliable AGPS information from the T-Mobile network. They do seem to get rough Almanac satellite info from Google or other third party apps. These may be based on WiFi detection more then T-Mobile cell tower locations.
In LBStest I noticed that GPS Operational Mode has been set to 'Standalone'. I interpret this to mean AGPS is deactived. I don't see any difference when I switch to MS based assist, and clear the GPS saved memory to prevent it from prejudicing time to first fix lock test. Switching SUPL server to supl.google.com and port 7276 (with MS based operational setting) just seems to make my phone lockup for short periods of time.
Once phone does get full lock on satellites its performance is quite good. (my two Vibrant's were purchased in early Feb 2011). It rivals my Garmin SiRFstar III based GPS unit in locked on sensitivity while inside a building.
I think the AGPS system issues will get worked out over time.
The Qualcomm based CDMA2000 systems (like Verizon) will likely have better initial coordination on AGPS system operation. CDMA2000 also provides network timebase directly compatible with GPS.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
*******************************************************************
All this nagging about GPS.....that it is not working in many devices and it's working in other many.....and of course I am talking about those ones who still would go for ONLINE gps navigation.....
In my humble opinion, what you guys should be asking yourselfs and the big corporations is, why nowadays, 99% of the smartphones(so not just sgs), even the most expensive ones are build with weak, less capable internal gps receivers, forcing users to go online(celular network /a-gps) or using external bluetooth gps receivers to get stable satellite fixes that means stable navigation.
Years ago, many of the first smartphones came with sirfstar chipsets or alike , so once again, why not now? That's the question that should not be ignored or forgotten.
A friend of mine, that would not dare to pay more than a 100 box for a phone, bought an ancient ETEN device on a sale for 40 box with that old windows mobile 5 and guess what...the internal gps get fast fixes just like any standalone gps device because it got the same sirfstarIII chipset
Why the heck, the expensive so called high-end smartphones of today are not build with better gps chipsets? Why A-gps? So we are forced to get data accounts?
And what happens when I want to navigate abroad? Roaming?
For data transfer and internet I use wifi; I have it at home and I find hotspots everywhere...I will save those extra 120 euros(or more) per year (data account costs)
And nobody will force me to get one(internet/data account); not even for gps navigation that I so much use..
I use gps navigation only offline, using a external bluetooth device on a daily basis and, many times abroad; it works like a charm on my SGS; and I am talking about serious GPS car navigation software like iGo, Sygic, Navigon etc. .
Don't even use Google maps or alike.
I cannot tell you how my sgs is doing on online navigation, I dont have a data account so I wont even try it.
But once Samsung get this online gps navigation thing fixed, you guys should concentrate your energy on the real issue:
The A-gps scam
And for all the corporations out there: Just deliver a device with a capable gps chipset and you will sell millions..
And for all the users out there: Just get a good compact external bluetooth gps receiver and stop nagging....
Thanks to 3rd party developers, the Android OS on my SGS can be "fooled" and I can connect any navigation software to my bluetooth gps receiver threw programs like Bluetooth Gps Mouse Unlimited and Gps Provider.
I do have to " allow mock locations" at settings first...
« »
¿Ein? You don need data to get GPS fix, A-GPS is only an aid to get faster fixes
I thtink you're a littel misinformed
LOL.. o boy.. the AGPS is to help say if your indoors so you can get a faster lock... the phone will work without it.
Ummm I can see why you would think what you think, but I do believe you are wrong.
Firstly: as far as I'm aware, the SGS has the same GPS chip as the latest TomTom standalone unit.
Secondly: I guess AGPS is a data feature, it uses the triangulation of cell towers and pulls information to assist a sat lock, but it is not really a different way of using GPS. Ultimately you still need to get a sat lock to use a GPS App.
So it may speed up this lock, but it won't replace it. It just means it'll take you a little longer to get a sat lock than without it.
So you have the choice use it or don;t use it, no-one is forcing you to use data.
Logicalstep
Oletros said:
¿Ein? You don need data to get GPS fix, A-GPS is only an aid to get faster fixes
I thtink you're a littel misinformed
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Lol those online translators dont work that smoothly...
I don't need a data/internet account to use celular networks aid, that means a-gps.That mean going online via 3g or 2g...
But IF I don.t have a data/internet account added to my phone subscription, my phone costs will be much higher depending on my use....
You are missing the point anyway...
betoNL said:
Lol those online translators dont work that smoothly...
I don't need a data/internet account to use celular networks aid, that means a-gps.That mean going online via 3g or 2g...
But IF I don.t have a data/internet account added to my phone subscription, my phone costs will be much higher depending on my use....
You are missing the point anyway...
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No, you're missing the point, you don't need any kind of data connection to use GPS, you can use it offline
Exactly...already the first line of Wikipedia says it: "Assisted GPS, generally abbreviated as A-GPS, is a system which can improve the startup performance of a GPS satellite-based positioning system."
There is, however, a related issue w/r/t A-GPS and a data account. Back on WinMo, I could download the ephemeris data to speed up the GPS fix for one week in advance (I think it was called QuickGPS or something on my HTC TouchHD, also had sth. like it on an old Eten). This allowed you to get a quick fix for said week, even without a data connection. Android, on the other hand, seems to download this data on the fly - meaning that if you don't have a data account you will experience a slow fix until your almanac has been filled "naturally" by the satellites you're seeing. I experienced that while on vacation this year without a roaming data contract - it took me a good 3-5 minutes to get the first fix and it was good from there on (well, as good as the SGS GPS gets ). I'd love to have some tool that does exactly what QuickGPS did, but I am not aware of anything like it.
TriC_101 said:
LOL.. o boy.. the AGPS is to help say if your indoors so you can get a faster lock... the phone will work without it.
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I have always smile in my face when someone thinks he can get a lock indoors..
Yes in a cartoon box you can. Not in real building I'm afraid.
And for all those who think SGS's GPS is usable without A.
Try it.
You will see.
Dont post things you just caught on wikipedia.
xan said:
I have always smile in my face when someone thinks he can get a lock indoors..
Yes in a cartoon box you can. Not in real building I'm afraid.
And for all those who think SGS's GPS is usable without A.
Try it.
You will see.
Dont post things you just caught on wikipedia.
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I can get a lock on 6-7 Sat no problem inside.... and so can lots of others.. don't know what your doing wrong but its not hard to get a lock inside.
Pics or it didnt happen
seems you all are little misinformed as to how the gps on android specifically sgs works. It is actually three systems at work here. Gps standalone without gprs and cell triangulation which gets lock within a minute same as standalone bluetooth units (they also take up to a minute from cold boot but because generally it is plugged in the car lighter and always on people think its blazing fast).then you have agps that downloads preloads data regarding satellite location in regards to your position via network instead of downloading same data directly from satellite thereby saving time. Both these can be used without checking network location in settings so to recap if your network location is unchecked you are still using agps as long as you have network connection (data connection that is).and samsungs system for agps being better than others cause it downloads data for while week as opposed to others downloading data everyone gps is turned on. Third level is network triangulation via cell towers that gets you that instant lock at the cost of accuracy useful mainly to let apps get your general location without having to engage real gps thereby saving power as well as give maps a chance to start calculating route while gps is still getting lock therefore appearing to operate faster.
Idan73 said:
Gps standalone without gprs and cell triangulation which gets lock within a minute same as standalone bluetooth units (they also take up to a minute from cold boot but because generally it is plugged in the car lighter and always on people think its blazing fast)
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Standalone gps's got their batterys, and thus they start "warm".
Thing is, standalone SRIF3/4 gps gets a warm lock without any AGPS nor network triangulation within 5-10 seconds. SGS (and bunch of top-of-the pack devices) cant come even close to that.
the GPS on the SGS works fine offline
i don't even have data on when going on long road trips
you just need an offline GPS software with maps, like CoPilot or some other one you like
xan said:
Standalone gps's got their batterys, and thus they start "warm".
Thing is, standalone SRIF3/4 gps gets a warm lock without any AGPS nor network triangulation within 5-10 seconds. SGS (and bunch of top-of-the pack devices) cant come even close to that.
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Sure they do. Sgs warm lock is 5 to 10 seconds as well. To test get the lock first then turn of data and network lock then start gps.restart of the phone same as restart of the standalone counts as a cold boot and takes about minute.
xan said:
Pics or it didnt happen
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Here ya go.... I don't have to prove anything just look on youtube.. This is the phone on for just 10sec.. if I had waited it would get down to about 10 feet... this pic was taken in a room where I get the lowest signal. and I live in a Condo with 2 foot concrete walls.. I don't have a digital camera.. this was taken with my old Samsung dumb phone.. but it does prove you can get a lock inside no problem.. also if i'm in a house I can get 6-7 sats to lock in the condo 5 at the most in that room.
only 3 sats and maybe the walls are thin
Polarfuchs said:
only 3 sats and maybe the walls are thin
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LOL Trust me the walls and not thin.. i'm on the 10th floor of a 25 floor Condo complex. I get alot more signal is a house.. Now my X10 can get about 7 Sats locked in the same room. and down to 5 feet. but the point was you can get a lock inside..
I'll try it.
I live in a 3 stories house at ground floor. The shutters are down and I'm 1 meter away from the windows.
After 3 Minutes I get 5 sats in view but none used.
I'll hang on.
Even after 10 Minutes I only have 5 satellites in View and zero in Use.
So no fix for me.
The numbers on top of the bars are from 15 to 25.
Logicalstep said:
Ummm I can see why you would think what you think, but I do believe you are wrong.
Firstly: as far as I'm aware, the SGS has the same GPS chip as the latest TomTom standalone unit.
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Most of Tomtom devices got a SiRFstarIII™ GPS chipset
If the GS got such one the amount of GPS threads in this Forum would be reduced considerably
What is your awareness based on?
Oletros said:
No, you're missing the point, you don't need any kind of data connection to use GPS, you can use it offline
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Idan73 said:
seems you all are little misinformed as to how the gps on android specifically sgs works. It is actually three systems at work here. Gps standalone without gprs and cell triangulation which gets lock within a minute same as standalone bluetooth units (they also take up to a minute from cold boot but because generally it is plugged in the car lighter and always on people think its blazing fast).then you have agps that downloads preloads data regarding satellite location in regards to your position via network instead of downloading same data directly from satellite thereby saving time. Both these can be used without checking network location in settings so to recap if your network location is unchecked you are still using agps as long as you have network connection (data connection that is).and samsungs system for agps being better than others cause it downloads data for while week as opposed to others downloading data everyone gps is turned on. Third level is network triangulation via cell towers that gets you that instant lock at the cost of accuracy useful mainly to let apps get your general location without having to engage real gps thereby saving power as well as give maps a chance to start calculating route while gps is still getting lock therefore appearing to operate faster.
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LOL... Lets put things in perspective :
1) Wich car navigation software do you use
2) when you UNcheck wireless networks =a-gps(in location and security) and you CHECk "use GPS satellites = build-in gps receiver and then you go outside, you start your car navigation software in you gs( taking into consideration that you have the righ map installed) how long does it take to get a fix so you can start driving?
3) Do you know the difference between a cold and warm start? Why the heck some of you mention car lighters????
Please just answer me these 3 questions and meanwhile I will post some educative information
Im considering buying a new headunit for my Mitsubishi Lancer and just wondered how the gps apps know my location without LTE or WiFi. Thanks
kristiansja said:
Im considering buying a new headunit for my Mitsubishi Lancer and just wondered how the gps apps know my location without LTE or WiFi. Thanks
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Ok... let's asume you're not trolling here, altho this kind of question is sorts of "I don't have gas in my kitchen, will the electric stove work and how"... and I'm kinda bored, so I'll do the explaining.
GPS or Global Positioning System works via more than 30 satellites in the orbit of the earth and devices with GPS have a chip, that can recieve the electromagnetic radio signal sent by the satellite, once the chip aquires signal from at least 3 of the satellites it's able to pinpoint your location via a method where it finds the point where all 3 of the satellite signals collide (your location)... Imagine drawing 3 circles and all 3 of them touch each other.. the point where they touch is the point you're at, and the more satellites you're connected to, the better is accuracy of the location.
WIFI and mobile network (edgem 3g or LTE) aren't really able to give you accurate location, altho, if they are available, both could be used to give you aproximate location (same technique as GPS - 3 radio towers and you can tell where aproximatelly in between them you are), to help the GPS find your location faster. There should be at least 8 visiable (reachable by GPS) satellites in any given time anywhere on the earth.
EDIT: as I could asume from your post, you don't know what WIFI and LTE are, so I'll do quick explaining to you
WIFI is just a standard, being used, to wirelessly transmit data fast, but in short range (ex. you router at home, transmiting data from your modem, or even your phone as a hotspot, transmiting data it's recieves and sends to the radio tower of the mobile operator)
So we get to LTE, which is also a standard being used for the 4th generation of mobile data transmiting, which works via radio transmiters by mobile operator.. those are placed on the ground and you can pretty much spot them everywhere (big towers with antennas)...
So conclusion: a GPS device does NOT need LTE or WIFI to operate, but it can use them for quicker GPS operation, if the GPS device supports aGPS standard ( more info: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assisted_GPS )
If you want more info on GPS: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Positioning_System
ok thanks