Related
I had the opportunity to play with a Wizard today.
I am going to say just one thing:
When I flip the keyboard thingie on the Wizard, the screen flip is instantaneous. Just instantaneous. (for the record, I happen to know exactly how long 1/5th of a second is, and it is not even that long)
On the Universal it takes what, 3 - 4 seconds?
Yes, yes! higher resolution and all that. But does that justify the same function on Universal to be at least 20 times slower? I think not!
I really can't believe that Universal is such a dog. Could it be something we are missing, like the CPU is underclocked by default or something?
Is there a way to find out how fast the CPU is running at a given time?
atekant said:
I had the opportunity to play with a Wizard today.
I am going to say just one thing:
When I flip the keyboard thingie on the Wizard, the screen flip is instantaneous. Just instantaneous. (for the record, I happen to know exactly how long 1/5th of a second is, and it is not even that long)
On the Universal it takes what, 3 - 4 seconds?
Yes, yes! higher resolution and all that. But does that justify the same function on Universal to be at least 20 times slower? I think not!
I really can't believe that Universal is such a dog. Could it be something we are missing, like the CPU is underclocked by default or something?
Is there a way to find out how fast the CPU is running at a given time?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
atekant: you're right on the button! I can almost prove it through trial and failure, but not conclusively. If you read the thread about the Jasjar and MDA Pro topping out at 624Mhz after being overclocked using PHM (Pocket Hack Master 2005), you will see that the Universal is not just slow in screen refresh rates, but also underperforms in the video playback department.
Plug in the mains adapter and performance issues are gone!! Successfully overclock to just 520Mhz (I know! It's supposed to run at that already!) and a lot of these performance issues are somewhat alleviated.
Personally, I believe that some universals have not different speed rating CPUs', but different chipsets, as not all Universal owners experience this problem e.g. Sub69 is ok on this front. But many other jasjar owners and MDA Pro owners have this same problem. My wife is on her 3rd MDA Pro, but that might be down to ROM version. Nonetheless, unless I overclock her Universal to 520 or 624Mhz, video performance is affected on videos encoded at a resolution of 640x480 (regardless of video bitrate).
Things have much improved on my own jasjar since my last hard-reset and not installing any 3rd party software that wasn't designed for WM5.0.
Anyway, that's my experience anyhow.
3rd party soft's not designed for wm05
but surely mackaby007, if a piece of software is not loaded into memory (ie used), why in the hell should it affect the performance, this is another insidious bug in my opinion, as i told u i am not going to try and hard reset just to test, but never should (or had with the o/ses i used like win, linux, epoc, symbian, unix, beos, macos, dos... etc) an application affect video or any other performance if its not loaded!
Re: Crossed wires!!
nabil2000 said:
but surely mackaby007, if a piece of software is not loaded into memory (ie used), why in the hell should it affect the performance, this is another insidious bug in my opinion, as i told u i am not going to try and hard reset just to test, but never should (or had with the o/ses i used like win, linux, epoc, symbian, unix, beos, macos, dos... etc) an application affect video or any other performance if its not loaded!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
nabil2000, I think we're getting our wires a little crossed here. I agree with you to a large extent that it could well be a down to software bugs, therefore affecting CPU utilisation, which will in turn affect performance, i.e. refresh rates, speed od operation and most obviously for me, video playback. having said that, you are aware that sub69 and I have the identical ROM and o/s build version. That doesn't leave much room for software being the culprit, being that we still get differences in general performance. I don't believe my unit is at all faulty. I do think, however, that there is a two-fold problem that concerns some but not all Universal owners:
1) I don't believe for one second that all manufactured units have identical hardware, only specs! Different manufactured chips with same performance rating, but different response in real world use. This is nothing new in the world of computing.
2)I do believe that the o/s / ROM is bug ridden and can/will be resolved in due time.
As for your point about unloaded software affecting performance, I agree totally, that is highly improbable.
rom leakage into memory
maybe soft resets do not get rid of the unloaded apps completely, and so we get remnants/debris of apps left behind, which can only be removed with hard resets...
so if this is the case, and my hunch is that it is, a rom upgrade which will flush memory properly and completely every soft reset will get the problem solved... (or allow some backup mechanism that will allow for non-destructive hard resets)...
as for the hardware issue, i am not a chip processor manufacturer so i would not know, but some people in this board seem to know that this is the case (ie variations in hardware that preserve official hardware specs, with some having the potential to be more performant than others beyond what is advertised)...
either way, my contention is the better the specs, advertised or otherwise, the happier the clients, and the better for the future of the HTC/i-mate dealership venture ...
and by the way that trick they pulled (htc/i-mate) that the reason they included less ram was to preserve battery life, the same stunt was pulled by nokia to justify why they used a slower processor (150 mhz i think) on their nokia n9500 communicator...
they think customers are fools, but we are becoming more astute and discerning than ever before in our choices... so they better watch out instead of insulting our intelligence
Well, no, not quite 3-4 seconds for the screen flip. More like 1-2 seconds
If you disable the O2 Active interface by going to Programs>Install Type>Basic then soft reset, it does speed up the screen flipping somewhat.
MDA Pro, Jasjar, Dopod, SPV M5000 and Exec, oh & VPA IV!
Tha's assuming that every Universal owner has an Exec! :lol:
Removing all Today Plug-ins will increase the speed as well...
mackaby007 said:
...Successfully overclock to just 520Mhz (I know! It's supposed to run at that already!) and a lot of these performance issues are somewhat alleviated...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
When I use PHM to look at the current processor speed, it already reports 520. Are you saying yours reported a slower speed?
If mine shows 520, should I just leave it alone and not use PHM??
(The test at 624 fails each time)
[/quote]Well, no, not quite 3-4 seconds for the screen flip. More like 1-2 seconds
Actually, for me its more like 6 seconds, painfully slow...
Fernando
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am a bit confused here. On one hand, it would seem that this is entirely a WM5 issue, as other devices with VGA screens do switch instantaneously (e.g., iPaq 4700 and others); it is not good that the JASJAR takes this long. However, the K-JAM screen rotation is fast but it has a QVGA screen, so it may be a VGA thing after all.
Or is it that WM5 and VGA don't "mix well"?
Any thoughts?
Fernando
Not trying to be the exception to the rule here but screen switching on by JJ is actually instantaneous. I have not done any RU and am still on the old one.
Those experiencing more than a second must be doing so due to plug-ins and non-WM5 compliant software installed.
"trick they pulled (htc/i-mate) that the reason they included less ram was to preserve battery life, the same stunt was pulled by nokia to justify why they used a slower processor (150 mhz i think)"
Hmm, If you read the article on Buzznet about power, written by a MS employee, or have ANY knowledge of electronics you would understand that both of these are completely true.
Less ram, or slower processor = longer battery life.
I used Wm5 on my Himalaya and NEVER ONCE went over 50meg ram used, let alone 64. Why on earth would you want 128???
orinoco said:
other devices with VGA screens do switch instantaneously (e.g., iPaq 4700 and others)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
4700 has an ATI video chipset, Himalaya and
Blueangel too, and the screen flipping is
done in hardware.
Universal and Magician use the LCD controller
built into the CPU, so they are dog slow.
Don't have any info on Wizard.
I knew the Jasjar was lacking something!!
cr2 said:
orinoco said:
other devices with VGA screens do switch instantaneously (e.g., iPaq 4700 and others)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
4700 has an ATI video chipset, Himalaya and
Blueangel too, and the screen flipping is
done in hardware.
Universal and Magician use the LCD controller
built into the CPU, so they are dog slow.
Don't have any info on Wizard.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I knew i wasn't loopy! That would explain poorer video performance on the Universal then, wouldn't it? Whilst the Universal is a very capable video player, it lacks power for higher resolution vids, hence the need for overclocking or the mains adapter to eradicate the 'jerking' some of have experienced in vids encoded at 640x480 @ more than 600kbps!
This issue of mine is becoming old hat now, so I'll give it a rest, but my fears have been justified, in that, whilst my jasjar is now performing beautifully, the only area left for me to complain is in the speed of screen flipping from standby mode and videoplack at high resolutions - lack of dedicated ATI video chipset explains it all to me now.
Cheers guys. :wink:
Re: So you think Universal is not slow? Only in two areas!!
CJSnet said:
mackaby007 said:
...Successfully overclock to just 520Mhz (I know! It's supposed to run at that already!) and a lot of these performance issues are somewhat alleviated...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
When I use PHM to look at the current processor speed, it already reports 520. Are you saying yours reported a slower speed?
If mine shows 520, should I just leave it alone and not use PHM??
(The test at 624 fails each time)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
CJSnet: Sorry mate, don't waste any more time on PHM. I won't anyway. It doesn't make enough of a difference for me in what I want from the Universal. I got my speed boost for the o/s from another program called GSPocketmagic. Don't ask me how this has worked out, I don't know, but it works for me!!
As has been made obvious, the universal has been manufactured without an ATI video chipset, therefore putting more strain on the CPU to handle screen refresh, flipping and video playback! So, in my opinion, we have to accept it as one of the shortcummings of the Universal. In every other way though, my Jasjar is now very quick and I'm not complaining.
best of luck. :wink:
Hi all,
To be honest, I don't know why many ppl complain about the EXEC.
I have been using mine for a month now.
I never did any rom upgrade, just use the original O2 rom, apart from installing it via the corporate install (o2 ext is too slow and big/useless). Then I notice my speed is quick, everything is fine. Stable and no problem. Even Tomtom 5.1 never failed on my device.
I never encounter the slowliness or bugs that other ppl is talking about with my original rom.
Does anyone else agree with me?
To be honest, I think perhaps the buggy version is the original HTC rom.
I do agree with you. To be honest, I do feel it's slower than my old XDAIIs, but that's probably because the programs haven't been properly optimised for WM5 and WM5 itself is still very buggy. Yet, it's still very useable and I don't feel that it's too slow for regular usage. It has also been perfectly stable!
To be honest for me it sucks..
Changed to corporate install yet too slow.
Available storages (RAM and Flash) to less around 40-50 meg each.
Some of programs doesn't work when installed on SD storage.
And yet to get Tomtom running..
Feeling disappointment with Exec.
slower than my old XDAIIs
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I only saw a glimpse of an Exec in action so I couldn't really judge the speed, but I hope you're wrong about that. The 2s is horribly slow!
The XDA2 performed almost as fast as a device with a 400mhz processor should. The XDA2s had an improved processor and memory and yet managed to be much slower and far less stable. The XDA Exec has a far faster processor and yet manages to run even slower?!?!?! WTF?!?! Does nobody else see a problem here?
Perhaps if HTC tried to make their next PPC slower it will end up performing better? I mean, my 400mhz, 128mb RAM XDA2s struggles to run a simple caller ID program quick enough for me to tell who is calling before they hang up.
My 10mhz (guesstimate) nokia 5110 in 1998 had working caller ID. This leads me to a simple conclusion: either we're lied to about proccessing power and memory specs of our PPCs OR the people who program windows mobile are ****tards. I'm leaning towards the second option
Why not just do soem simple product testing and spend 2 weeks resolving issues before selling these things as a working product?! I'm sure it wouldn't kill them!
Rant over.
I think the slow came from WM5 CE ROM , I did try Dopod 900 ROM flush to O2 Exec the speed better than O2 ROM
Xda IIs if upgrade to WM5 and overloack to 530 that speed better than Exec , but depend how you used and how you look for ,I think you remember how we used pentium II or III or Iv samething will come with PPC.
mike freegan - I'm with you regarding the lack of product testing. I use PDAs and Smartphones from Symbian and Palm so I know what sort of quality one should expect. A lot of PPC/WM5 users (fans?) say that the JJ/Exec is a PDA and therefore we should not epxect too much from the phone functionality. Well I disagree as the JJ/Exec has video and voice calling - why have these if they are not really functional? I am certain the issue is software development, integration & testing. I think we'll have to wait 6 months before WM5 problems have been sorted, in time for Vista! Also regarding speed, this is to do with the hardware architetcure. Using flash memory for persistent storage does make the overall performance slower and the high res screen must require more processing for rendering etc. So I think we need to wait for JJ II or Exec2 for hardware improvements (like more fast RAM).
Don't know about the Exec vs XDAIIs, but my JasJar is a definite step forward from my PDA2K.
I haven't experienced any of the millions of problems being reported either, so I guess I'm one of the lucky ones!
tested a friend's xda exec (can't seem to find a good deal for a universal here in the US) and it works fine ... as for myself, i'm stuck with my o2 xda 2s until a good option for me to get either the xda exec, htc wizard or the sonyericsson p990 ...
since upgrading my xda 2s with O2 UK's latest ROM i've rarely reset my phone. the only major upgrade i did with O2 UK's ROM was to upgrade the radio to 1.13 ... never had any problems with it and use both the blackberry connect and the exchange active sync functions on it and it works fine ...i've used the terminal services and VNC functions on my phone to log on to the different servers i maintain within a local network and from externally and they have a good connections the only issue would be the obvious limitation of screen size .... bluetooth is ok compared to my sony ericsson p910i but the 2s is more of a pda than the p910 ....
can't wait for my next upgrade .... damn if only the US would actually realize that we're 4 years behind everybody else when it comes to mobile technology ....
@difensore, is the Treo 700w an option for you on Verizon using Evdo (which is better for speed then the Euro UMTS)
I'm using JasJar for over one month now, and I can say that it's a fantastic device, there is no doubt there are some bugs, but due to the softwares installed on devices which had no enough time to be tested properly.
If you want to proove this, just hard reset your device, and use it before installing any software and you will see the difference, with me it worked like a charm.
Universal is a fantastic and amaizing device.
It's a new technology, the smallest and the lightest lap top I've ever seen.
Regards,
mike freegan said:
slower than my old XDAIIs
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The 2s is horribly slow!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is true if you've left all the o2 software running on it. Without the o2 software and with proper task managers running, it runs as fast as any Pocket PC should. Not as quick as a wish, but enough to function very well as both a phone and a Pocket PC!
This applies to both the XDAIIs and the XDA EXEC, in my humble opinon!
If anyone has removed *every* O2 active application from the startup and it still runs slow, I'd love to hear from you guys!
I have a HTC Blue Angel (also called Qtek 9090, XDA III) and I'd like to buy a HTC Universal (XDA Exec, Qtek 9000) to replace it.
However, I keep hearing that it's slow, and that it's slower than the Blue Angel.
Is this true, or are the people who say it's slow using it in a wrong way (for example using lots of memory-hungry programs at the same time)?
Anything else to look for when buying one?
If you want to get an idea of what it's REALLY going to be like, I suggest you visit the BA Upgrading Forum at xda-dev and download the TuMa v1.4 ROM of WM5 and take the plunge of upgrading your device. It will give you an apples-to-apples idea of how WM5 runs on a device with the same configuration.
There's no easy answer to your question. In short WM2003SE is faster, but the utility gained by moving to the newer OS far surpasses the benefit of speed. That's just my opinion, of course. Your mileage may vary.
But the Universal has a faster processor than the Blue Angel.
Isn't the user experience about similar, because of the faster processor (slowness of WM 5 being compensated by the increased CPU speed)?
I think most people will tell you that the jump from the BA CPU to the Universal CPU is nominal (at best). Certainly under the WM5, this is the case.
Yes, perhaps the bump in speed for the CPU should compensate, but in reality it does so only a bit. This is because of the inherent operation of WM5 (i.e. the stuff is executed out of ROM, which is slower than RAM).
For details see Mike C.'s excellent post http://blogs.msdn.com/windowsmobile/archive/2005/08/19/453784.aspx
Newsminator said:
I have a HTC Blue Angel (also called Qtek 9090, XDA III) and I'd like to buy a HTC Universal (XDA Exec, Qtek 9000) to replace it.
However, I keep hearing that it's slow, and that it's slower than the Blue Angel.
Is this true, or are the people who say it's slow using it in a wrong way (for example using lots of memory-hungry programs at the same time)?
Anything else to look for when buying one?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi,
Upgraded from the BA (Orange M2000) to Universal (Orange M5000)
I can honestly say that the M5000 is slower - i dont think the devices fault but WM5!
After having the M500 for 2-3 weeks now and then going back to look at the M2000's screen there is a massive difference. Due to that I wouldnt consider going back to the M2000.
The M5000 is a fantastic device and is a bit slower than the M2000 but more than makes up for it in other ways.
Just my penneth.
Matt
So it seems
I have both devices both running wm5. The Blue angle seems to have more running memory but I'm not positive how much memory the wm5 OS can handle
Unfortunately:
YES, its slower
Maybe wait for WM5SE (Codename Crossbow).
short answer: It's worth it
Ady is right.
100% Worth it !
My contribution....
I moved from BA to Universal. I use both very simply....phone, email, internet etc...bit of tomtom
No strange apps, no mods, boring old o2 ROMs.....
and I think the Universal is slower....but only slightly and not so it would really bother you. :wink:
And anyway, the Universal looks so much better so just get it!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:
HPJ
I have both and I find the Universal is a lot slower, even when running it at 624MHz.
Blame WM5, though, not HTC.
I bought it
I have just bought a Qtek 9000 (HTC Universal) and a Corsair 133X SD card, so I can access the data quickly.
It's a bit slower than the Blue Angel, indeed. But, for some things, it is faster:
- Pocket IE doesn't lock up for 2 minutes when loading complex web sites
- browsing is faster because of the 3G
- Pocket Word loads complex documents faster
Overall, I'm very pleased with the upgrade.
I think that I don't feel the slowness because I don't use programs which put themselves on the TODAY screen - I configure the PDA to show the date and the calendar, and that's it.
In my view the VGA compensates all drawbacks of the speed issues...
really fantastic with PIE and Adobe Reader PPC 2.0
Does Wizard have same CPU as Universal
I have a Blue Angel running WM2003SE and a Wizard running WM5. BA is MUCH faster. Does the Wizard have the same CPU as the Universal?
If I flashed the BA to WM5 would it be as slow as the Wizard? Could the BA be overclocked with 'Omap..'?
Which ROM would you suggest for running WM5 on the BA?
Thanks.
Dude--the Wizard CPU is a jalopy compared to the Universal's hotrod. That's not a fair comparison at all. The only true comparison would be with a HTC Alpine device which runs the same CPU as the Universal.
monakh said:
Dude--the Wizard CPU is a jalopy compared to the Universal's hotrod. That's not a fair comparison at all. The only true comparison would be with a HTC Alpine device which runs the same CPU as the Universal.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The Wizard is certainly slow but has a useable keyboard and 3G WiFi unlike the BA.
Any response to my other questions?
I am expecting a Prophet in the next week, is it the same CPU as the Wizard (and no keyboard at all)?
This is all off-topic so if you have a question about the Prophet or Wizard or the BA, you should post it in the appropriate forum. The answers to all your questions already exist. Please use the search function. That's why it's there.
On to my reponse:
Useable keyboard? Perhaps, but you will find as many haters of that keyboard, as well--Although I agree it's better than the BA's. And no, the Wizard does not have a 3G radio. It has EDGE (which is more like 2.5G). Yes, it has WiFi, but so does the BA. How is that any different?
The Prophet has no keyboard and has the same '****ty' OMAP CPU as the Wizard. I was using this lame ass CPU with HP's 6315 almost two years ago. It sucks. Software-based enhancements make the new ROMs for the Wizard and Prophet more responsive, but it's still what it is. Which is S.L.O.W.
There are huge threads devoted to the BA WM5 experience. Try the TuMa 1.4 ROM or the newest Ivan release. Please browse through the BA Upgrading forum for details (I suggest this to the OP, as well). I doubt the 'overclocked OMAP' could ever match the raw CPU power of the Xscale CPU. I am not going to get into a war over CPU architecture here.
My .02 hilala as they say here in Saudi Arabia.
I've got a Magician at the moment, and was thinking of upgrading to a Prophet.
Is is worth it? Obviously this question is relative, so if you think so (or why not) then us know why =]
I have updated myself from Magician to Prophet and would say it is worth it. Windows mobile 5 with its new soft keys is so much easy to use than WM2003. I would upgrade for that reason alone.
Besides, the slower process (in MHz) is not really a difference. The overall performance of the device is on par with Magician.
Moreover, WiFi and EDGE and additional benifits if you make use of it.
On a side note, I like the looks of Prophet better than Magician. It feels more professional than Magician.
I would definitely echo what Itanium2 said. I have also upgraded from the Magician to the Prophet and love it, one handed use is so a lot easier and the softkeys are great.
There are a couple of minor annoyances for me with WM5 over WM2003:
1. Contacts forgets where you are, so if you have scrolled down your contact list, or opened a contact, then say go back to the Today screen, click on the contacts button you are back at the beginning of your contacts list - this is very annoying!
2. Mobile Excel doesn't save your zoom settings. I use Excel quite a bit and WM2003 used to save your zoom settings for each spreadsheet, however now everytime you open a spreadsheet you are at 100% zoom...
Still on the whole, after upgrading to the latest Imate ROM I find the device as stable as the magician was, with a good battery lif. One thing you might like to consider when buying your Prophet is the Imate Jam vs the Orange M600 - the Imate has a much brighter screen (unfortunately I did not find this out until I had brought the M600). Side by side it is really noticeable.
I upgraded my Magician to a Prophet.
Things that made me upgrade.
Wifi (tired of carrying around a wifi SD card)
Brighter screen in daylight
WM5-when power is lost, you still have a working PPC
There are lots of other little things that are better, but for me these were the biggies. Edge is nice of course, but that wasn't a deal breaker since in Europe we avoid data over providers because it is so expensive. If you don't use your Wizard in bright daylight and Wifi isn't important to you on a frequent basis then I think it comes down to money...if you can afford the new toy then why not, otherwise save the 500 dollars for a digital SLR etc.
Do it! I did.
It felt a bit slower to me so I have overclocked it using the tool in this thread: http://forum.xda-developers.com/viewtopic.php?t=55782
It flies along quite nicely now. 8)
TheBrit said:
Do it! I did.
It felt a bit slower to me so I have overclocked it using the tool in this thread: http://forum.xda-developers.com/viewtopic.php?t=55782
It flies along quite nicely now. 8)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I still have my Magician as well the Prophet and I have to say that even with the overclocking utility the Prophet is still very much slower than the Magician. Also the screen on the Prophet although undeniably brighter seems to be less responsive in comparison to the Magician. This last point may be down to my units only and could be affected by the screen scratch protection which are from different makers.
Other than those two points, Prophet beats Magician in every other respect.
Here's my 2 cents.
I have upgraded to the Prophet (JAMin) as well. I have to say that I would never get back to the Magician.
Usability has improved greatly, battery life is amazing, overall speed is definitely acceptable.
Well, I am not able to play any of my videos without overclocking the device (or re-encoding them - no way!), but considering all improvements I have found and loved, I would not really care... Unless a new fast CPU equipped device hits the market, of course !
Ciao.
I have had both a Magician and a Prophet, and there isn't a large enough difference to warrant the upgrade. You should wait! Wait to get a 640x480 display with the same dimensions as the Jam. They already have 2.8 inch 640x480 sceen, it’s just a matter of time for them to stick in it in the form-factor
http://www.engadget.com/2006/07/04/sharps-w-zero3es-ws007sh-winmo-5-pocket-pc-hotness-redef/
Why I use the Jam over the Jamin:
1} The Jamin is WAY slower, people can rationalize all they want with FileCache and OCing, but I run my Magician at 585Mhz and there is no way the Prophet compares to it, they are completely in different leagues… and though people say its really only a problem in watching movies, (which it IS!) you still brutally feel the loss when you are tasking around the device…
2} Though persistent storage is nice, its 1/2 the reason the device is slow. I run a SpriteBackup every night, keeping 8 rollover copies on the card, (4gig card)... worst case I lose a day... If the Prophet becomes unusable, (virus, corrupted registry, from all that writefilecaching)) you lost the device and have to hard reset... everyone should do nightly backups regardless of device, but if you did that, what do you need persistence storage for?
3} Wifi: That is a tough one… if there is one thing I miss its wifi, but you rarely find free-hotspots and if you primarily use it at home, (I do) then get a Bluetooth dongle, they have 300 foot range, which covers the whole house. But if you HAVE to have wifi, consider something like this...
http://www.expansys.com/product.asp?code=121110
4} Camera: the 1.3 and the 2meg are the same in that they are both complete crap.
5} WM5: I am most concerned about this. If MS or others developers make WM5 only apps, then that will become a HUGE problem. But for now it hasn’t happen. And given how many W2003SE there are, its not going to happen for a while.
Final Thoughs: As soon as a JAM-type with a 640x480 display comes along I will toss the JAM but for now, why bother getting a device that has more shortcomings then enhancements.
Thanks for all your replies!
One reason I was worried about upgrading is that I always use my device overclocked - it just seems too slow without. I knew that I couldn't use PHM with the different processor, but it's good to see there's an OMAP overclock util. But it's in beta, and I'm not sure if I could be bothered tinkering with it if somebody already has and says that it's slower anyway.
Flash memory and extended battery life have never been an interest, as I backup weekly (Sprite Backup FTW) and always carry a spare battery.
I have a sandisk 128mb+wifi (hard to find cheaply in Australia), which I'm sure I'll find a use for one day. USB+Card Export = faster regardless.
I never use the camera, mind you, I've seen some shots from the Jamin and they look better.
Also, I'll be moving to Japan in the next year or so, and I didn't really want to spend that much on a device that I'll have to sell later on when I move. Besides, that link James posted looks like it's probably worth waiting and getting a new phone over there.
Ultimately, I was looking for some majorly convincing argument to upgrade. At the moment, it'd only be for the extra two buttons because I've already given AE Button Plus three events for the three buttons I've got. Oh well. Thanks anyway guys.
slvrbllt said:
Well, I am not able to play any of my videos without overclocking the device (or re-encoding them - no way!)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Say what? I've heard this a couple of times now and I can't help but wonder what you people are doing to your devices? My Prophet runs on normal speed and I've never had problems playing my videos! I use Pocket DivX Encoder and if you choose the right setting the video will be crisp and clear and the playback will be smooth like... err... something REALLY smooth!
As I said I've never had any problems with videos so please don't use this to bash the Prophet. You should rather look into what you're doing wrong!
JamesManios said:
4} Camera: the 1.3 and the 2meg are the same in that they are both complete crap.
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Click to collapse
Ha! What? The last time I went on vacation I actually left my digital camera at home since I now have a real good camera in my pocket all the time. The pics are great. If you want to enlargen them to billboard size of course you might want to get some other equipment. I'll attach a picture that I took so you can look at the quality yourself. And no! It is not porn, thank you!
[edit] Oh, nevermind the picture. Is there a way I can attach it for everybody to download without the pic being displayed and completely destryoing the look of the thread?
A) I must agree with Jayxz. Played DivX from Sandisk 512 (old, relatively slow one) with no problem, 29fps and all.
Never had to overclock.
I had a chance to play with Mio 701 which has a faster processor and the only difference in performance I noticed was with the iGO nav software. And that was just a slight improvement.
B) Jayxz: Personally I need no proof of picture quality, but if you want to post it any way, just zip it (better for downloads any way) or change the extension.
Also read this:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/viewtopic.php?t=4992
Ok thanks!
[IMAGE_00315.jpg noframe]
Saying the camera's no good is just nonsense. Anybody with doubts click on the link, please.
As for the camera: I would say the quality is the same/similar to the JAM, and not terrible/great, (though that is a good shot!) You usually get a lot of blur from both devices using them in real-life. Almost everyone has a better digital camera, so what I was saying is that it’s not really a reason in comparison to the JAM to upgrade, (ie a much better camera).
You technically are re-enocding when you did the Pocket Divx Encoder. If you download and play a divx off the net that was meant for the computer, (like a 800meg size one) you will find the prophet isn't up to par to play it smoothly. I fully agree a re-encode of a DVD for example can be made to play fine.
If I run TCPMP in benchmark on the same video the Prophet overclocked to 230 gets 230Mbit on video, the JAM overclocked to 585 gets 487mbit, the JAM definitely can dish-it-out more.
Remember I have both devices so I do lots of side by side comparisons, and don’t really have a bias, the Prophet is a good pda! But if you already have a Jam it’s not worth upgrading, (well in my option, save the money for the next device that will be much better).
Does anyone know of a 640x480 JAM sized phone that maybe I don’t know about, (no Exec please)?
James,
Did you forgot to change the focus on the lens ( don't know what it called ). IMHO, the quality is just fine, much better than 1.3 camera. See attached images, one is taken with close focus, another in normal forcus and in room light.
Thang
Its the macro switch for close up. Actually those pictures kinda demontrate what I was saying which is the blur affect. You can see it by the persons head, and in the bottom right corner of the macro picture.
Anyways, we are a little off the topic. I was just saying, comparing the two devices it was really not a big difference, not a reason to upgrade
Ok, we established that EDGE, WiFi and better (even if slightly) camera are not worth the upgrade.
What about memory then?
I admit I don't have a JAM but according to specs it has 64MB RAM, which for WM2003 is split for both storage and program.
Now I know you can install most apps on a storage card, but what about contacts, calendar and the rest of outlook? Not to mention any plugins, utilities and apps you want to use with contents from different storage cards, like TCPMP?
Just how much 'program' memory do you have left in the end, and how much does windows try to reserve for storage even if not needed?
As you can see from my sig, I have a iPaq 1710 which runs WM2003, and I came to despise the slider. What is the point of letting the user change memory allocation if the OS changes it right back.
Thankfully, tweakradje posted a fix for that.
Those naughty MS programmers, NeverDorkMemory he, he :lol:
Ok, first I'm going to apologies to Jed D`Lagged cause we have derailed his original article, but I have to reply to this because of the sheer irony.
Prior to getting my Prophet, a friend of mine, also with a Prophet made the exact same argument. To which I made him a small bet, (figuring I would actually lose). I bet him that I could get a full installed JAM with more free program memory then a similar installed Prophet. Cause even though the Prophet has 64RAM you seem to only get access to much less, something like 42 of it on a bone clean install.
Using BigStorage, and NeverDorkMemory set to limit Storage to 4 Megs (the pre-agreed on number), I installed all the base apps needed to BigStorage, things like Wisbar, 1 Theme, SpriteBackup, Resco, PHM, all the usual suspects. In the end, (sorry I forget the exact number), the JAM had 8 megs more Program Memory then the Prophet... and I know it sounds hard to believe, we were pretty surprised ourselves... the only theory is that maybe WM5 uses a lot of RAM while running the OS??
Now someone will immediately say, ‘but didn't you make the device slow by having all 3rd party apps loading off slow storage’. Yes, I did, but the device was still faster then the Jamin. Once a program loads on either the JAM or JAMIN it runs from RAM and will run at 230Mhz as opposed to 585Mhz which is a noticeable difference.
On one final note, I think people are thinking I'm knocking the Prophet, I'm not, hell I have one, (not for long though), but it’s a good device. Again, I'm just telling Jed, (for what I think are pretty solid reasons) its not worth upgrading...
I've observed the same outcome between the Prophet and Magician. However, if you don't overclock and don't use the Bigstorage hack on the Magician, the RAM amount and speed differences are not nearly as noticeable. In other words, if you don't know how to hack and tweak your phones the differences are not as obvious. I suppose that most people fall into this category, the members from this forum excluded of course
Just bumping my own thread to say that I had started to look at picking up the Prophet for the extra ram because having two Japanese dictionaries, Excel, Word and TCPMP was chewing up ram causing the machine to go slow while it swapped/"Dorked" the memory.
However, NeverDorkMemory fixed that, now I always have ram free.
Hooray!
Jed D`Lagged said:
I've got a Magician at the moment, and was thinking of upgrading to a Prophet.
Is is worth it? Obviously this question is relative, so if you think so (or why not) then us know why =]
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Not if you're looking for a phone that will still receive further ROM updates.
I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for HTC/QTEK/Dopod/i-mate et al to release AKU3 for the Prophet.
How much faster is this new processor compared to the Wizards? Is noticably much faster, or not much?
Is it worth the upgrade?
yes it is, video streaming, usege of phone, bootup all faster but i must say t-mob rom has som glitches. not obvious but still there
The speed increase wasn't as fantastic as I had hoped, but it makes the device definitely more usable.
I'd say if you are a heavy user of the device and have the "Spare" cash, GET ONE, If not, wait for the next Vario III or whatever its gonna be called.
Re: Question for People who have upgraded from Wizard to Her
dangerous_dom said:
How much faster is this new processor compared to the Wizards? Is noticably much faster, or not much?
Is it worth the upgrade?
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If you want to use Skype and 3G, then yes. Other not really. Don't get me wrong it is the best device for me, but unless you can get a good deal then as has been said already the speed difference isn't onticeable from the latest Wizard ROMs.
TyTN vs Wizaed? No Contest!!
C'mon guys you gotta be kidding!!??!!
The TyTN/VarioII/SPV 3100...and its other guises, is far superior to the Wizard, even with the latest ROM!
Compare:
Does the Wizard have a commendable 2MP camera worthy of taking on SE K750i?
Does the Wizard have A2DP & AKU2 out the box?
Does it Multitask like the TyTN without lag?
Is it as varied in operability i.e. one-handed navigation plus many buttons?
Does it have HSDPA compatibility?
Is the screen as bright and clear?
Does it even have 3G?
Can it Video call?
NO!
The Wizard is good an everything but the TyTN is Great in comparison. Just my 2 cents worth.
Aye but unless you're wanting to use 3G, want to run lots of apps or use the camera then it's not noticeable better than the Wizard. I still have to see the difference in speed between the latest Wizard ROMs and the TyTYN.
As I said it is better, but not worth taking out a new contract to run against your existing one like a lot of people are doing.
Allow me to step in with a related question: The 3rd party compatible battery charts from Hongkong manufacturers show the HTC batteries from the Wizard and Hermes to be compatible. Can you confirm this?
@Lucas0511
The batteries are completely different.
The Wizard one is much smaller than that of the Hermes.
See attached picture
Cheers,
Drifter
The Wizard was Okay, but not close to the Tytn. I found the Wizard keyboard (Qtek 9100) somewhat unusable, the annoyance of constantly hitting the camera button a nuisance, and the constant speed degredations because it was doing some housekeeping unacceptable, all of these issues are gone with the Tytn. The ability to use Skype on the phone, important to communicate overseas, and other features made this an easy choice. Plus, don't ask me how I did it, but broke the spring holding in the memory card on the Wizard, which made it ready for retirement.
The Vario is a Good Phone, The vario II is definitely a better phone, but the newer version is still very expensive SIM free at the moment and So in my opinion the bottom line is if you use it to its full potentional AND if you have the spare cash.
The Vario II isn't as brilliant as I would have hoped, the 400Mhz processor is FASTER, but you still see abit of lag which I wasn't expecting.
UMTS and HSPDA make the device MUCH faster for downloading, but its still quite slow with internet browsing.
The camera is better but not even in its wildest dreams can it take on the SE K750.
Video calling - How often do people use this ?
You also need to keep in mind that will the pace that phones are being developed and released that the Vario III is possibly going to be released within the next 12 months or less.
So, the bottom line I would say is ..... do you need it and have you got the money.
Hi all,
I've been running the Wizard for almost 9 months now - clocked at 264 MHz thanks to omapclock - without any problem.
I got a TyTN from my job at the end of July and could not see any noticeable difference in terms of latency or execution speed.
The battery lasts only 24 hours when I am under UMTS coverage (48h at least with the Wizard with Edge).
I seriously think I'll get back to the Wizard until a decent french ROM version is available :?
_________________________
HTC TyTN French (HERM200)
ROM: 1.18.256.2 (05/30/06) - ExtROM: 1.18.256.103
Radio: 1.03.03.10 - Proto: 32.34.7010.01H
I think i will stick with my Wizard for now. From what i have read on these forums and elsewhere, the differences, while nice, are not compelling enough for warrent the spend.
Thanks for you input.
I use Slingplayer. Will the tytn make a difference? I also live in Dallas where umts is active.