Related
I'd like to toss this out for discussion. This might already exist, it might not.
Microsoft had system builders use a Disk Differencing technique to extract what exactly had changed after installing applications and customizations.
First, we'd install the OS and create a base image.
Second, we'd install the apps & customizations we wanted for our customers.
Third, we'd create another image. An app would then compare these two images and determine what files were added/changed and what registry additions, deletions, alterations were performed.
I'm hoping we can do the same for ROM upgrades.
1. OLD ROM - Base image.
2. Install apps and customizations - Image "Apps". This will give us our customizations.
3. Install new ROM - NEW base image created. Compare to OLD ROM base image to see what has changed (that we need to look out for that our APPs image might adversly change).
4. Apply Apps image to restore all customizations & applications.
Ideas anyone?
The theory sounds good.
Maybe buzz can comment?
The theory is very feasable, ive used similar building Win PE rescue disks, you have a app that gives you the base bootable image made from a Win XP install CD. then you add home made "modules" ie, your installed apps or networking capabilities etc. then it makes an image for you to use,
that cant really be that difficult to do the same for Win CE,
Ive also seen a M$ webcast thing where the guy took 45 mins to build an entire image for a win ce device,
so yer, it is very feasible that such dev apps exist, after all, they were made and then sold to the hardware vendors before ever being a rom image.
check in msdn for win ce 5 stuff, its a very intresting read, :shock:
it is a good idea, but only for linear ROMs, where each file has always it's own and same place in the rom and such rom is not compressed.
hmm...
but you can do partial rom upgrades with wm5 roms...
...and it would be possible to make registry diff + DOC Storage partition backup, where you actually install programs (so called \Device) and userdata.
buzz
buzz_lightyear said:
it is a good idea, but only for linear ROMs, where each file has always it's own and same place in the rom and such rom is not compressed.
hmm...
but you can do partial rom upgrades with wm5 roms...
...and it would be possible to make registry diff + DOC Storage partition backup, where you actually install programs (so called \Device) and userdata.
buzz
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ok...Since I'm not a programmer and somewhat of a noob with respect to WinCE, I am NOT constrained by what might be a logical limitation to a programmer or someone in the "know". So, below is my thinking ... outside of the box (er, PDA) style.
But first, I need to grasp further Buzz's post above about the locations of things in ROM. Does this mean that there isn't, for lack of a better example, a FAT for the ROM? That every individual thing is expected to be at some specific, static location that can't change? If so, I see your point. But that tells the system that this location is static? Also, doesn't that make bug fixes difficult as the fix might exceed the designated space in ROM? Or do bug fixes always get re-applied after each reset? Patching in memory is how I'm looking at this. (Remember, I'm a non-programmer...deal with me, please.) LOL
Ok..out of the box time.
1. Can a shim be used to capture calls to a certain location in the ROM and redirect to another location (within the ROM or even the storage card. Linux builds anyone?). Like what HD disk managers did to get around LBA limitations or even boot sector viruses did.
2. Can an emulator be used to simulate/backup/build/test the ROMs on a PC before wiping the PDA? Don't laugh, but if not, could something be done with Virtual PC? Oh..Ok, laugh.
(Should I go hide somewhere?)
Taken from the Mini Rom: a RamDisk driver
Attached are a cab which one can install at it's own risk (worked on my custom rom w/o any problems) and a zip, that contains the driver (to be installed in the windows directory) and a registry file.
The RamDisk size is setted default to 8Mb. I turned off the default hidden status so that it can be seen in a file explorer.
Mainly for cooks and users to experiment with.
Here are the (default) registry settings to play with:
Code:
[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\System\StorageManager\Profiles\RamDisk\FATFS]
"Flags"=dword:4
[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Drivers\BuiltIn\RamDisk]
"Dll"="htcramdisk.dll"
"Flags"=dword:00000000
"FriendlyName"="Windows HTC Ramdisk Driver"
"IClass"="{A4E7EDDA-E575-4252-9D6B-4195D48BB865}"
"Order"=dword:00000000
"Prefix"="DSK"
"Profile"="RamDisk"
"Size"=dword:800000 ;Default 8MB. MUST be larger than 2MB to reserve space from share memory
"index"=dword:9
[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\System\StorageManager\Profiles\RamDisk]
"Folder"="wramdisk"
"AutoPart"=dword:1
"AutoFormat"=dword:1
"Name"="RAM Disk"
"MountHidden"=dword:0 ; edit: is default setted to 0 on the HD Mini
[HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Explorer\Shell Folders]
"Cache"="\\wramdisk\\IE\\Temporary Internet Files"
"Cookies"="\\wramdisk\\IE\\Cookies"
"History"="\\wramdisk\\IE\\History"
The size of the ramdisk is specified in bytes. The amount of bytes can be calculated here
Some standard sizes:
Code:
10Mb 10485760 (dec) A00000 (hex)
15Mb 15728640 (dec) F00000 (hex)
20Mb 20971520 (dec) 1400000 (hex)
30Mb 31457280 (dec) 1E00000 (hex)
There seems to be a upperlimit on the size. As of now I wasn't able to create a ramdisk with a size larger than 30 Mb
(Be careful though with the settings of the size of the ramdisk. If the amount is too large the device doesn't boot up anymore. In that case one has to do a hard reset. Someway the amount specified isn't totally ignored! Although practically it is not possible to get a size greater than 30Mb. Don't know which constraints are limiting the size)
----
BTW tested the ramdisk on a 23108 WM build, don't know if it works on other builds (I assume it does)
For for my noob question. What is this for? HD2 ram size is quite big to begin with. So it doesn't really make sense if it a ram management program.
Opera Cache on RamDisk
Here is the first possible use of this new RamDisk:
Setting of the Cache directory of Opera to \wramdisk\OperaCache
(one can use the attached cab or do it oneself, see tboy2000s hints and tips thread for instructions)
This speeds up the perfomance of Opera.
theory_87 said:
For for my noob question. What is this for? HD2 ram size is quite big to begin with. So it doesn't really make sense if it a ram management program.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The Ramdisk is "resides" in the program memory which is faster than the storage memory. One can use this ram memory for, for example caching. (see my previous post)
I think that with this RamDisk there is an opportunity to make the newly disclosed 576 Mb program memory finally useful.
interesting... so I'd have to set the cache of programs that use a lot of space (HTCAlbum and Facebook for example) to use this RAMDisk? If so, how do we set the options for it...
pongster said:
interesting... so I'd have to set the cache of programs that use a lot of space (HTCAlbum and Facebook for example) to use this RAMDisk? If so, how do we set the options for it...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm looking into this right now. Mainly, I'm interested in moving the musiclibrary index file to the ramdisk. Not for the size but for the speed.
Anyway, good suggestion to use the extra program memory to release some storage memory space.
(EDIT: if you find something useful, please report back in this thread
appelflap said:
I'm looking into this right now. Mainly, I'm interested in moving the musiclibrary index file to the ramdisk. Not for the size but for the speed.
Anyway, good suggestion to use the extra program memory to release some storage memory space.
(EDIT: if you find something useful, please report back in this thread
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Amazing find! I don't use the default music player as I prefer S2P... which means we could, in theory, let programs we want to speed up use this RAMDisk by default or through REG entries automated by a Sashimi install
Thanks appelflap. awaiting this. hope will work with htc shift
Variations of RAMdisk were first sighted about 2 years ago in relation to the XPeria1 - my somewhat unreliable memory says it was originally adapted from an old DOS program
There is no doubt it speeds up programs that use caches for reference ... the problem seems to be that most WM programs are "cache un-aware" ?
I wonder if one copied into RAMdisk the entire directory for a program which is originally installed on the card, and then edited the Registry entries to reflect this change of location, would loading and running this program then be noticeably quicker by reading RAMdisk instead of the card ? Like, perhaps, TomTom + map ?
Word of warning:
Watch out for the amount of ramsize one is defining:
accidently I setted the ramdisk to 512 Gb and my device didn't boot up anymore. I had to do a hard reset (after first having a heart attack, because I thought I screwed up my memory)
This is a proof that the HD2 definitely hasn't a 512 Gb memory chip
appelflap said:
Word of warning:
Watch out for the amount of ramsize one is defining:
accidently I setted the ramdisk to 512 Gb and my device didn't boot up anymore. I had to do a hard reset (after first having a heart attack, because I thought I screwed up my memory)
This is a proof that the HD2 definitely hasn't a 512 Gb memory chip
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
LOL, maybe good to take this up in the first post of this topic
Good find anyway!
ianl8888 said:
Variations of RAMdisk were first sighted about 2 years ago in relation to the XPeria1 - my somewhat unreliable memory says it was originally adapted from an old DOS program
There is no doubt it speeds up programs that use caches for reference ... the problem seems to be that most WM programs are "cache un-aware" ?
I wonder if one copied into RAMdisk the entire directory for a program which is originally installed on the card, and then edited the Registry entries to reflect this change of location, would loading and running this program then be noticeably quicker by reading RAMdisk instead of the card ? Like, perhaps, TomTom + map ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Definitely something to experiment with. Thanks for your suggestion.
What can be done with this ram-memory is something that has to be find out with some experiments, I guess. Any knowledge to direct these experiments is highly appreciated.
ianl8888 said:
Variations of RAMdisk were first sighted about 2 years ago in relation to the XPeria1 - my somewhat unreliable memory says it was originally adapted from an old DOS program
There is no doubt it speeds up programs that use caches for reference ... the problem seems to be that most WM programs are "cache un-aware" ?
I wonder if one copied into RAMdisk the entire directory for a program which is originally installed on the card, and then edited the Registry entries to reflect this change of location, would loading and running this program then be noticeably quicker by reading RAMdisk instead of the card ? Like, perhaps, TomTom + map ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I used to do something similar to this on a DOS program a long time ago (1985). It did a lot of math and paged data to the "hard" drive where the data was stored. I would create a virtual disk in RAM and copy my data to that location. When I ran the program it would "page" data to the "hard" drive which was actually RAM. A file that took 2 hours would only take 20 minutes.
I think suiller includes a RAM disk in his rom and kitchen already for a few years.
You can find a lot of tips and trick over there.
Enjoy!
ShaDrac
ShaDrac said:
I think suiller includes a RAM disk in his rom and kitchen already for a few years.
You can find a lot of tips and trick over there.
Enjoy!
ShaDrac
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks ShaDrac! Great info source...
Meh, HTC fashionably several years late as usual -there's been a ramdisk driver floating around for ages from AMV007 for years - been using it ever since I got an Xperia X1.
Works fine on the HD2 - I use a 6mb ramdisk personally.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=382944&page=1
Just a disclaimer:
DO NOT save mail attachments to storage card when applying this - as I got the STORAGE CARD2 feature - and that sucks... But easy to recover, just uncheck "save attachments to storage card" and soft reset...and everything is back to normal..
But RAMDISK sounds pretty cool - so I will test some more on it
Martinhdk said:
Just a disclaimer:
DO NOT save mail attachments to storage card when applying this - as I got the STORAGE CARD2 feature - and that sucks... But easy to recover, just uncheck "save attachments to storage card" and soft reset...and everything is back to normal..
[...]
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This problem is easy resolved by hiding the ramdisk. Just do some settings for the ramdisk (I myself use it this moment for a 10mb opera cache, which really speeds up opera) and hide it via the registry.
Install, reboot no Ramdisk
Miri WM6.5 v 5.2
Where could be problem ?
Is ramdisk content lost upon reboot?
Or is it copied to non volatile memory before phone shutdown.
or maybe phone ram is already non volatile unlike PC?
The SMT5600 is app unlocked and, I think, Super CID (via lokiwiz02_173 but how verify?) but no ROM changes as of yet as I want to make a backup of the original ROM before proceeding further.
After problems getting a term program to work (now using nueTTYConsole on Vista) I am able to get what appear to be complete ROM backups.
Procedure summary:
WinHex zero fill 64MB SD
USB bootloader SMT5600 with 64MB SD
r2sd all (via nueTTYConsole-12-v0.1-spackr)
SD back to PC [no to format query]
psdread E: 0 31328768 ipl.bin (using itsutl050119)
Status messages from the r2sd all command appear to be good and complete but no two backups, using the exact same procedure, are ever identical when binary compared with WinMerge. Size is, of course, the same but WinMerge always reports 'two' differences in what seems to be the same general area of the images: The first is very near the front of the image (WinMerge reports as 'lines', line 3) and the other at the very tail end.
Is that normal (maybe because TIME, or some other dynamic variable, changes or scratch storage?), is there a better backup procedure, and how can I verify the backups are good before I flash a new one and forever lose the original?
Thanks in advance for any enlightenment offered.
To check if it works - just restore the backups before doing anything else.
Follow the whole procedure (including psdread and - after reformatting the card - psdwrite again) to restore your device via the card. As a first try leave out the device external activities and restore immediately afterwards from the card just written.
For me it works well (on the SDA 2 - where no official update exists, a Hurricane device - but this generic handling is identical afaik) and the difference in the backups are normal.
Mind that the size of the read/write to card includes the bootsector, so don't miss the last 512 bytes. As far I remember there were two different size readings with two methods to verify the image size. The r2sd size is smaller than the size of bytes different to null on card.
To check for SuperCID enter "info 2" in the terminalprogram, it should report HTCSuperCID at the end.
tobbbie said:
To check if it works - just restore the backups before doing anything else.
Follow the whole procedure (including psdread and - after reformatting the card - psdwrite again) to restore your device via the card. As a first try leave out the device external activities and restore immediately afterwards from the card just written.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the reply
Yes, I thought about doing a test restore, but, considering the problems I'd already had, wasn't sure if it might do something like not mention there being a 'problem' till it was half way through, leaving me with a scrambled ROM.
I take it you're saying it'll checksum first and no even start if things don't look good?
tobbbie said:
For me it works well (on the SDA 2 - where no official update exists, a Hurricane device - but this generic handling is identical afaik) and the difference in the backups are normal.
Mind that the size of the read/write to card includes the bootsector, so don't miss the last 512 bytes. As far I remember there were two different size readings with two methods to verify the image size. The r2sd size is smaller than the size of bytes different to null on card.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hmm. I saw the confusion about SMT5600 image size but I'm not sure what you're saying here about the bootsector and "different to null."
Speaking of which, what would be wrong with just making a 64M save and, ok, you've save a pile of extraneous 0's along with it but, so what? Might be irritating if I were putting it on rapidshare but for a personal backup is there any down side to it?
tobbbie said:
To check for SuperCID enter "info 2" in the terminalprogram, it should report HTCSuperCID at the end.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks. Good to know.
Something apparently went wrong somewhere because I didn't get that report but I'll try again.
The r2sd is a command that HTC has implemented in the SPL (Secondary Program Loader). I am not aware of checksums or other safety measures - it will as I noticed following the procedure detect if there is an image on the card, which type of image and if you want to restore.
The difference in size is that r2sd reports one size "x" after the image was taken, but if you count the bytes until when the card shows the zeros you will notice that this offset on card is 512 bytes larger than the r2sd reported size. So when using psdread you have to take the larger size. Indeed it is no problem to write more to the file and restore more as well with psdwrite. The restore procedure in the SPL will anyway know how much to restore - it just needs to find ALL bytes, including the last 512
I think there is no risk attached to the procedure, go ahead!
The only danger is if something goes wrong with the IPL (Initial Program Loader) or SPL because they open the door to the device handling.
Sadly you MUST deal with SPL to upgrade to WM5+ afaik, so be very sure to select the right IPL and SPL that matches your device HW (OMAP 730, 750 or 850) and intended OS Version. Also take care not to enter any command in the SPL except the ones you are supposed to enter - it may kill your device as well. Do never use "format all" or "doctest" - you have a brick then.
tobbbie said:
The r2sd is a command that HTC has implemented in the SPL (Secondary Program Loader). I am not aware of checksums or other safety measures - it will as I noticed following the procedure detect if there is an image on the card, which type of image and if you want to restore.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, I am certainly no expert on this thing but r2sd spits out a wealth of information, including checksums, and I was sort of guessing based on what I'd do if I'd made it. Just that, if you're going to calculate them, it seems a shame to not use them. But, hey, I've seen stranger things done.
tobbbie said:
The difference in size is that r2sd reports one size "x" after the image was taken, but if you count the bytes until when the card shows the zeros you will notice that this offset on card is 512 bytes larger than the r2sd reported size. So when using psdread you have to take the larger size. Indeed it is no problem to write more to the file and restore more as well with psdwrite. The restore procedure in the SPL will anyway know how much to restore - it just needs to find ALL bytes, including the last 512
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Oh, OK. I wasn't going by r2sd. I opened it up in WinHex, found the end of data, and compared that to the size mentioned on "Backup your Typhoon ROM - WinMo @ MoDaCo." The 'corrected' number there matched well enough.
But now that I think of it, I did that because I *did* look at r2sd and it seemed too small. So you've explained it. Good.
tobbbie said:
I think there is no risk attached to the procedure, go ahead!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How can there be no risk if it doesn't check anything?
tobbbie said:
The only danger is if something goes wrong with the IPL (Initial Program Loader) or SPL because they open the door to the device handling.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Oh, I think I see what you mean. You're suggesting that if I've cut the ROM image short then only that part will fail but the loader should still be good so I could recover by burning another (good) ROM image.
Well, perhaps, but that would mean I don't have a valid backup and couldn't make one since it would be trashed in the bad flash. Or so it seems to me.
tobbbie said:
Sadly you MUST deal with SPL to upgrade to WM5+ afaik, so be very sure to select the right IPL and SPL that matches your device HW (OMAP 730, 750 or 850) and intended OS Version. Also take care not to enter any command in the SPL except the ones you are supposed to enter - it may kill your device as well. Do never use "format all" or "doctest" - you have a brick then.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I was thinking of going straight to WM6.x per
karhoe.net/guide-upgrading-htc-feelertyphoonamadeus-to-windows-mobile-6-update-september-06-2008.html
which involves changing the loader first via Patched_RUU
Do you think going to WM5 first is a safer procedure?
I said I was not aware of any checking - but as I have not written the SPL, I simply do not know it. You are right that reporting stuff like this makes it highly probable that upon restore a check on the image should be done before restoring. Try it out, if you like
WM5 or WM6 does not make a difference what the SPL is concerned. Afaik you have to use the same anyway. The device is tight in memory anyway, so don't expect miracles.
Go ahead, either dare it or leave it...
tobbbie said:
I said I was not aware of any checking - but as I have not written the SPL, I simply do not know it. You are right that reporting stuff like this makes it highly probable that upon restore a check on the image should be done before restoring. Try it out, if you like
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hehe. Yeah.
I was sort of hoping someone else had already stepped off that cliff and could tell me what the ground was like before I dove in
tobbbie said:
WM5 or WM6 does not make a difference what the SPL is concerned. Afaik you have to use the same anyway. The device is tight in memory anyway, so don't expect miracles.
Go ahead, either dare it or leave it...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The primary aim was to get bluetooth a2dp but the incentive may have diminshed, depending on how another project works out.
Thanks again for the help.
I would not bet on A2DP - I have it in the Tornado and the CPU use is much higher due to additional compression on the BT interface. Player + BT overhead is getting to average above 80% CPU (depending no the settings, but for good quality is like this) - it will also drain your battery much faster.
The Typhoon, Hurricane and Tornado have identical good analog Audio capabilities (I measured them with RMAA - see www.rightmark.org) and make a perfect music player as they are.
If your device is SuperCID you can take any other Typhoon ROM - you must just be sure that r2sd will save your bootloader + OS if you want to go back to WM2k3. I have done this already on my Amadeus (and went back to WM2k3) and this can still serve as a nice musicplayer.
tobbbie said:
I would not bet on A2DP - I have it in the Tornado and the CPU use is much higher due to additional compression on the BT interface. Player + BT overhead is getting to average above 80% CPU (depending no the settings, but for good quality is like this) - it will also drain your battery much faster.
The Typhoon, Hurricane and Tornado have identical good analog Audio capabilities (I measured them with RMAA - see www.rightmark.org) and make a perfect music player as they are.
If your device is SuperCID you can take any other Typhoon ROM - you must just be sure that r2sd will save your bootloader + OS if you want to go back to WM2k3. I have done this already on my Amadeus (and went back to WM2k3) and this can still serve as a nice musicplayer.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I admire people who can make these flash things work because it never does for me. I've now got an SMT5600 that will do nothing but display a rainbow boot screen and error out regardless of what ROM I try.
That's why I didn't try this till I had a new phone.
Hey that thread has a long history - what happened in the meantime?
3 colour screen does not mean the device is dead yet. You still have a bootloader that works and this is the thing to start from in any case.
What do the lines tell in the 3 color bars?
Did you already upload the changed SPL (I think it was 1.09) that allows to flash ROMs of WM5 or WM6 on that original WM2k3 device? If so, the you need to revert back to old SPL first before you can upload the original ROMs again.
tobbbie said:
Hey that thread has a long history - what happened in the meantime?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I put it on hold pending a new phone and other things cropped up.
Frankly, I had 2003 pretty well tricked out with SmartToolkit and gStart.
tobbbie said:
3 colour screen does not mean the device is dead yet. You still have a bootloader that works and this is the thing to start from in any case. What do the lines tell in the 3 color bars?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I swear it wasn't a troll but no sooner than I posted it wouldn't flash I managed a flash and I'm not sure why this worked when the others failed.
I was trying to verify the hard spl, getting info, etc. To make that easier I turned 'ui' on during boot and, just for chuckles expecting nothing, I tried flash again. You know, the definition of 'insanity'. Low and hold the dern thing flew.
As far as I know nothing was different other than 'ui' on. Same tools, same wm6.5 bin file, etc.
tobbbie said:
Did you already upload the changed SPL (I think it was 1.09) that allows to flash ROMs of WM5 or WM6 on that original WM2k3 device? If so, the you need to revert back to old SPL first before you can upload the original ROMs again.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You have no idea how helpful mentioning "1.09" is. The SPL flash program opines something like changing to v 5.000 but that number shows up no where and no where does it tell you to look for '1.09'. There are other confusions, like saying the existing device was 'Orlando' (I think it was), but I guess that's moot now.
Anyway, it's now running WM6.5 and I have a new toy to fiddle with inbetween playing with Android on my Tilt 2.
Thank you for the help.
Glad it worked now
The older (wm2k3) devices could only be updated with a binary transfer protocol (the .BIN file - which can be confused with other ".bin" in the scope of cooking in general). To enable the reception of the MTTY command "l" (for Load) and the execution of the related actions, the SPL must be in "UI" (User Interface) mode - this is the key for further flashing - and it must be mentioned in all such upgrade manuals. Also mind that other terminal programs (like TerraTerm) have not implemented that protocol. So only MTTY works for that purpose! As I am struggling currently with porting a Tornado ROM to the Hurricane I have come quite deep into that topic recently.
Are you having the WM65 from aleut now on the device? I think it is very tight on RAM now, so what are the memory key-data from settings->about after a reboot? You should repeat that with the standard home screen (Windows default) which is less memory greedy.
The way back to WM2k3 is not so easy as you must replace the SPL with the original one first before you can get back to the original OS. Whenever you mess with SPL it is a potentially dangerous action as failure doing that right will result in a bricked device.
tobbbie said:
Glad it worked now
The older (wm2k3) devices could only be updated with a binary transfer protocol (the .BIN file - which can be confused with other ".bin" in the scope of cooking in general). To enable the reception of the MTTY command "l" (for Load) and the execution of the related actions, the SPL must be in "UI" (User Interface) mode - this is the key for further flashing - and it must be mentioned in all such upgrade manuals. Also mind that other terminal programs (like TerraTerm) have not implemented that protocol. So only MTTY works for that purpose! As I am struggling currently with porting a Tornado ROM to the Hurricane I have come quite deep into that topic recently.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So I discovered after missing the little '0' in the instructions.
tobbbie said:
Are you having the WM65 from aleut now on the device? I think it is very tight on RAM now, so what are the memory key-data from settings->about after a reboot? You should repeat that with the standard home screen (Windows default) which is less memory greedy.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, I originally flashed Aleuts 6.5 but I've since reflashed with his 6.1.
tobbbie said:
The way back to WM2k3 is not so easy as you must replace the SPL with the original one first before you can get back to the original OS. Whenever you mess with SPL it is a potentially dangerous action as failure doing that right will result in a bricked device.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yep, flashing SPL is the most vulnerable but I don't think I'll be going back to 2003. Although, I might try WM5 if that has more free memory.
With most things I plan on using installed there's 8.5Meg free at boot and while that sounds laughable by today's standards there's only 22Meg total for a more impressive sounding '38% free' Although, as soon as you touch the thing almost half of that is gone.
There are plenty of advantages of using NAND version (in development) but there is huge risk - the new loader and waranty violation.
After darkstone released so called "RAM version" I started to think about the new direction of development of Android builds.
The advantage RAM versions over NAND is limited risk. It can be started on Stock HD2 ROM without waranty violation.
We need
- 100 MB for WinMo barebone (it is in ROM already)
- 100 MB for Android readonly system files (clean froyo, as darkstone SuperRAM Froy v1) or 150 MB for Sense RAM version
- 256 MB (or more) for some type of data.img.
Our HD2 has (I know there are different versions): 512 MB ROM and 448 MB RAM.
So we have a plenty of memory capabilities, and if WinMo barebone resides in ROM and Andoroid system files goes to RAM or even ROM (but not in NAND way - in "SuperRAM" way). I believe this is really good direction. Maybe it is a good way of next generation Android builds, but not NAND ones.
What do you think (developers) ?
(I do respect NAND developers hard work, it is hard to start new thread without thank you guys)
Edit
Please, do not take it as another "thanks to SuperRAM thread" (this is not the point)
WOW
This SuperRAM from darkstone just leave me wow that is really smoking rom
without one NAND but i respect the hard work from the developer of NAND
install android without use WM 6.5 just like one real android phone of have option to go back to wm install wm 7 and say ok i want go to wm 6.5 again jjuts like that
some person say but u could buy an android phone if you dont want to see wm mobile in hd2 ok i understand but some person just want to install and reinstall and try sothing all day
Im one of those. i dont know you ...
I wonder if over utilization of the ram can lead to hardware problems.
Thoughts?
First we need to know how the RAM version work? I thought ba a normal SD Build data is also going into RAM. What is so special about thius RAM version?
ronalgps said:
some person say but u could buy an android phone if you dont want to see wm mobile in hd2
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Click to collapse
What about ppls who cannot afford cash to buy a new Android phone for like $600-$900.
I have received my HD2 as a gift so.. people be kind when speaking about buying something new if we don't like what we already have/own.
If everyone was thinking like "if you don't want WM, buy an android phone" we would never have Android on our HD2s, neither WP7 nor ubuntu!
lemar123 said:
(I do respect NAND developers hard work, it is hard to start new thread without thank you gays)
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Developers is not "gays". It is guys.
DerBozZ said:
(...) What is so special about thius RAM version?
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Click to collapse
RAM (way) is haret based version, so you do not have to put hardspl to you phone (or you can now restore stock rom cleaning hardspl). Most of latest stock firmwares are android friendly (radio is good enough). You can use WinMo (30s to boot) and then load Android (another 30s) without any risk of bricking your phone. I assume RAM resident version will be good enough (why not ?) like almost perfect microsd card version.
NAND versions will require new loader (magldr) - so there is always a risk of bricking your phone and, using hardspl you could clean it by a stock rom, there is no info about cleaning it same way.
Can anybody confirm that removing magldr is as easy as removing hardspl (in case of warranty service repair) ? Even it is easy cleanable - RAM version requires neither hardspl nor magldr - so it is pretty safe for me.
So, I have a hope devs/cooks will find the way to put all necessery "haret based" android filesystem files into ROM/RAM but leaving stock WinMo rom alone.
lemar123 said:
RAM (way) is haret based version, so you do not have to put hardspl to you phone (or you can now restore stock rom cleaning hardspl). Most of latest stock firmwares are android friendly (radio is good enough). You can use WinMo (30s to boot) and then load Android (another 30s) without any risk of bricking your phone. I assume RAM resident version will be good enough (why not ?) like almost perfect microsd card version.
NAND versions will require new loader (magldr) - so there is always a risk of bricking your phone and, using hardspl you could clean it by a stock rom, there is no info about cleaning it same way.
Can anybody confirm that removing magldr is as easy as removing hardspl (in case of warranty service repair) ? Even it is easy cleanable - RAM version requires neither hardspl nor magldr - so it is pretty safe for me.
So, I have a hope devs/cooks will find the way to put all necessery "haret based" android filesystem files into ROM/RAM but leaving stock WinMo rom alone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Cotulla has stated that magldr is flashed over HSPL, to clean it all you have to do is flash a winmo stock ROM and it's gone back to normal.
orangekid said:
Cotulla has stated that magldr is flashed over HSPL, to clean it all you have to do is flash a winmo stock ROM and it's gone back to normal.
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Click to collapse
Hmm, mods closed this thread ...
Maybe because of rumors it is creating or maybe it was true.
That is why I prefer RAM version .
RAM introduces data corruption. Everything is loaded into the RAM and then synced with the SD card, but if your phone turns off (battery died or dropped phone) or you have a random hard reboot, you risk not being able to boot back into Android.
So I have one question, for those (like me) who have a RAM limitation (due to hspl) with 3.14 official rom, we have 50mb free ram in winmo.
Can we use this type of build or must we change for a custom winmo rom (with 200 + free ram) before ?
Igoran said:
Developers is not "gays". It is guys.
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oupsss ...
Sorry, for that ... ;-)
@TonyCubed
I believe, it is not synced at all.
Changes are applied by /Android/root folder - http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=9767735&postcount=16
So no need to to sync. It is safe.
radiance26 said:
So I have one question, for those (like me) who have a RAM limitation (due to hspl) with 3.14 official rom, we have 50mb free ram in winmo.
Can we use this type of build or must we change for a custom winmo rom (with 200 + free ram) before ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As I understand it, when Android is running winmo is completely shut down, so it isn't using any ram or cpu time.
That's why you can't just "quit" android and drop back into winmo, you have to reboot the phone.
Feel free to correct me if someone knows better.
tarwedge said:
As I understand it, when Android is running winmo is completely shut down, so it isn't using any ram or cpu time.
That's why you can't just "quit" android and drop back into winmo, you have to reboot the phone.
Feel free to correct me if someone knows better.
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Click to collapse
if my understanding is correct, winmo kernel should remain in the ram and works as "drivers", and helps communication between hardware and android
vista1984 said:
if my understanding is correct, winmo kernel should remain in the ram and works as "drivers", and helps communication between hardware and android
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Click to collapse
No, it doesn't remain in ram. When you start haret.exe it kills the windows kernel. It does not, however, erase what's currenty in ram at the time. haret uses some of those memory locations to map things.
So it's not good for me to have a limitation ?
mstrk242 said:
No, it doesn't remain in ram. When you start haret.exe it kills the windows kernel. It does not, however, erase what's currenty in ram at the time. haret uses some of those memory locations to map things.
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Click to collapse
thanks for the clarify,
but i was puzzled that why people suggest update quick gps in winmo to improve gps locating speed in android?
are there any booklets of Haret's mechanism for noob like me?
I don't think any of us know the pros and cons of Darkstone's SuperRam vs DFTeams NAND, seeing as how one of those isn't released yet...
mstrk242 said:
No, it doesn't remain in ram. When you start haret.exe it kills the windows kernel. It does not, however, erase what's currenty in ram at the time. haret uses some of those memory locations to map things.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Based on this I have a question then: If what your saying is for the most part accurate, Then in thought the kernel is killed but the rest remain, so from a clean boot into WinMO then a boot into android we arent utilizing the full capacity of the HD2 Ram? I understand haret uses some of the memory locations to map things, but meaning to map drivers or hardware information to the android OS?
This peaks my curiosity only cause if Android is using limited memory, then would a NanD Boot (Which I assume is a straight boot) be more benficial to run clean and possibly smoother?
I'm sorry if the question sounds dumb, but it really peaked my interest.
HaRET shutdowns winmo and maps certain portions of linux into certain memory addresses. No part of winmo remains once HaRET boots the linux kernel. To check how much ram you have available out of the total amount you can run "free" from terminal emulator or adb shell. if you get "free: command not found" then run "busybox free", if that fails install busybox and try again.
If any of you have ever checked dmesg's log you'll notice how it recognizes 448mb of ram.
I'm a PC person and this is my first android device, so please bear with me.
When my Tab 4 had the stock rom, it showed 3.28gb as the minimum required to run system blah blah under settings/device/storage
I've now installed a custom rom using TWRP flash.
The rom is supposed to be a lightweight version with a lot of the bloatware removed, but the OS still shows 3.28gb as system space.
Why did the system space not reduce if the OS is slimmed down version ??
Did I flash incorrectly ??, in the PC world if you used a smaller OS image it would give the option to make a smaller OS partition and free up more space for data partitions.
Am I missing something here ??
Do Android roms not resize the partitions ??
Can we resize the partitions manually before installing the rom ??
anyone ??
sid21177 said:
anyone ??
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Depends on the rom. First off, which model number do you have (Settings > about device > model number)? Secondly, which rom did you install? (I'm going to assume you installed some sort of stock-based rom). To tentatively answer your question, touchwiz roms (i.e. stock based) usually don't free up much space because even though it's a "custom rom" it's in many senses the same thing, many if not all of the same system apps/processes. AOSP-based roms (the most well known tends to be Cyanogenmod and its derivatives) usually free up a lot more space. A quick numerical example: my tablet came with something like 300 or 400 system apps comprising the stock OS. Simply put, I wiped everything and installed cyanogenmod, now the corresponding number is somewhere between 70 to 90 system apps. In other terms Samsung's touchwiz (the stock Samsung version of Android) is hideously bloated, first with all the unnecessary crap (adware, unnecessary apps, gimmicky features, etc.) they include, and also because they essentially built their own android environment (touchwiz) on top of google's stock android. I'm just speaking from what I've picked up from personal experience, I'm sure someone could give you a much better technically in-depth answer than this, but I saw your question and felt bad that you hadn't gotten an answer, so I hope this has helped in any way. If not, well, sorry
thisisapoorusernamechoice said:
Depends on the rom. First off, which model number do you have (Settings > about device > model number)? Secondly, which rom did you install? (I'm going to assume you installed some sort of stock-based rom). To tentatively answer your question, touchwiz roms (i.e. stock based) usually don't free up much space because even though it's a "custom rom" it's in many senses the same thing, many if not all of the same system apps/processes. AOSP-based roms (the most well known tends to be Cyanogenmod and its derivatives) usually free up a lot more space. A quick numerical example: my tablet came with something like 300 or 400 system apps comprising the stock OS. Simply put, I wiped everything and installed cyanogenmod, now the corresponding number is somewhere between 70 to 90 system apps. In other terms Samsung's touchwiz (the stock Samsung version of Android) is hideously bloated, first with all the unnecessary crap (adware, unnecessary apps, gimmicky features, etc.) they include, and also because they essentially built their own android environment (touchwiz) on top of google's stock android. I'm just speaking from what I've picked up from personal experience, I'm sure someone could give you a much better technically in-depth answer than this, but I saw your question and felt bad that you hadn't gotten an answer, so I hope this has helped in any way. If not, well, sorry
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I installed a custom rom which is about 400mb in size. I assume the initial system partition was set to 3.28gb as the stock rom is a lot larger.
So, I thought that when I install a smaller rom, the space on the device will free up to be used as data storage, like it would on a PC when you image the drive with a smaller OS image.
But there was no change to the system partition size, apparently android custom rom flashes do not touch the partition size, they just reduce the content on the partition
Unless I got this figured out wrong
sid21177 said:
I installed a custom rom which is about 400mb in size. I assume the initial system partition was set to 3.28gb as the stock rom is a lot larger.
So, I thought that when I install a smaller rom, the space on the device will free up to be used as data storage, like it would on a PC when you image the drive with a smaller OS image.
But there was no change to the system partition size, apparently android custom rom flashes do not touch the partition size, they just reduce the content on the partition
Unless I got this figured out wrong
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah sorry after I answered I read more carefully and saw you were asking more about the partition size, I apologize that was my bad. I'm definitely out of my league here, all I know is bad things (like hard bricks) tend to happen when people try re-partitioning (I'm not saying it isn't possible necessarily, just that it's certainly not to be done lightly or casually)
But there was no change to the system partition size, apparently android custom rom flashes do not touch the partition size, they just reduce the content on the partition
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Click to collapse
Correct to this line. I think this is the core of what you were asking and what I missed.
thisisapoorusernamechoice said:
Yeah sorry after I answered I read more carefully and saw you were asking more about the partition size, I apologize that was my bad. I'm definitely out of my league here, all I know is bad things (like hard bricks) tend to happen when people try re-partitioning (I'm not saying it isn't possible necessarily, just that it's certainly not to be done lightly or casually)
Correct to this line. I think this is the core of what you were asking and what I missed.
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Click to collapse
No issues
If it was a PC I'd tinker around in a heartbeat, with devices & embedded roms its a little more hairy
sid21177 said:
No issues
If it was a PC I'd tinker around in a heartbeat, with devices & embedded roms its a little more hairy
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
you can move apps from the data partition to system, this will give you more free space.
partitioning is also possible, there are custom roms from other devices which do so.
sub77 said:
you can move apps from the data partition to system, this will give you more free space.
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Click to collapse
How to do this ??
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=de.j4velin.systemappmover&hl=de
sid21177 said:
How to do this ??
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
On average how much space can you free up by doing this? Thanks In advance!!!
Sent from my SM-G920T using XDA Free mobile app
xda23 said:
On average how much space can you free up by doing this? Thanks In advance!!!
Sent from my SM-G920T using XDA Free mobile app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
First you should root your device to get the permissions to write any data to system partition.
Then you can use apps like Titanium Backup, .... to move apps to system partition.
Freeing space depends on the size of the app you are moving.
Don't root to just move apps to system partition. Use a sdcard intead.