Database Users

HSPDA Confusion!

Hi everyone,
It's my first post here - most likely not to be my last. Oh, and i know i spelt HSDPA wrong in the title!
I very very recently (yesterday in fact) managed to get hold of my T-Mobile Hermes (one of the .37 batch) and am having no problems whatsoever with the phone, the only problem i am having is getting any web download speeds faster than around 40kbps?
I phoned T-Mobile yesterday and after being on hold twice and explaining myself many times i think i got HSDPA enabled as the lady (who was very nice) said she promises it has been enabled for me. I tried half hour later and sure enough, i used www.dslreports.com/mspeed and could now download at around 800kbps - perfect! Unfortunately i tried again this morning and it says 40kbps again
Is there any way to tell whether HSDPA has been enabled on my phone before i call T-Mobile again? Does HSDPA just run over 3G? I haven't got a brilliant signal where i am - usually 1 or 2 bars, could this be what is affecting my download speed? I need some help!

Just realised i have spelt HSDPA wrong in the thread title - never mind! Can anyone help?

Have you read this dude?
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=276154&page=5
Theres a couple of files you can check you have i believe, also the Fit4cat program is worth downloading.

40kbps is GPRS data speed. Even without HSDPA you should get 300kbps on UMTS.
Your phone will show a U or a G depending on which network you are on.

It shows a "G" all the time in a little white block next to the signal bar, and sometimes the signal bar shows an antenna and sometimes a "G" also - does that mean when im on the "G" ill be on HSDPA and when im on the antenna (if i cant get 3G) ill be on GPRS 40kbps?
If so that makes a lot of sense as the signal is not brilliant round here, i went shopping in a much bigger town this afternoon and tested again -> full signal and downloading at around 1200kbps! Obviously it is enabled, think its just down to my signal....
Does that sound about right?

RTFM, the G is for GSM ie data will be GPRS.
You will either have a 3G or U depending on what ROM you're running for 3G/UMTS/HSDPA .

I'll be honest i only got half way through the quick start guide before i started playing with it. So, if my phone is always on "G" i'll assume i need to try and unlock it using the fit4cat thing? As T-Mobile have said they have enabled HSDPA on my account?
How did i get 1200kbps on GPRS by the way? It definately said "G" when i was connected and did the speed test...?!

I just ran the fit4cat Hermes tweaker and still no luck, it only connects to "G" rather than "3G", 3G is apparently available in this area so why does it only connect to G? Im confused and would really appreciate some advice...

Well if you probably didn't notice the U (or whatever) when you got 1mbps once it. This means that HSDPA is enabled on your phone and SIM.
The fit4cat tweaker only (dis)enables HSDPA but that isn't an issue because even without HSDPA you would be getting UMTS speeds.
One thing you could try is. Go to Start->Settings->Phone->Band set GSM/UTMS to GSM900+1800 + UMTS2100
You could also try a manual search for networks from Start->Settings->Phone->Networks->Find Network
Finally you can also disable GSM totaly using network type in the band selection and see if you get a steady 3G signal.

Thanks for your suggestions, here are my findings:
kevino said:
Well if you probably didn't notice the U (or whatever) when you got 1mbps once it. This means that HSDPA is enabled on your phone and SIM.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Good point, i have a long drive home tonight so will check when going through built up areas to see if it connects to 3G or U then.
kevino said:
One thing you could try is. Go to Start->Settings->Phone->Band set GSM/UTMS to GSM900+1800 + UMTS2100
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Tried this, and phone disconnected then reconnected but still said "G" when connecting to Internet. Set back to "Auto".
kevino said:
You could also try a manual search for networks from Start->Settings->Phone->Networks->Find Network
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Did this also, it pops up with the message "Registering on the network" and disappears and thats it, nothing happens.
kevino said:
Finally you can also disable GSM totaly using network type in the band selection and see if you get a steady 3G signal.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I cannot find an option to disable GSM in the Band tab, i have the following:
Select your network type.
__Auto
__GSM
Select your GSM/UMTS band.
__GSM(900+1800)+UMTS(2100)
__GSM(1900+850)+UMTS(1900+850)
and thats about it. Cannot find anything that would let me not use GSM whatsoever? I appreciate your help so far

It may be the case that your reception for 3G just isnt adequate enough to work where you live, O2 states there is reception in the area where i live but i only tend to get UMTS upstairs....just one of those things....here at uni i get FULL UMTS reception anywhere.

richieboy said:
I cannot find an option to disable GSM in the Band tab, i have the following:
Select your network type.
__Auto
__GSM
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In the dopod ROM it has a WCDMA option too. No big deal !
Seting the band was just so that the phone doesn't bother looking for bands that are not available in this country. To try and encourage it to check the correct UMTS band more quickly.
My suggestion to use find network (you need to select manual search) in Networks wasn't too helpful anyway as it doesn't list the band. So no use unless you can disable GSM.
Of course you may have got a spurious speed test result. How old is your SIM? It needs to be a USIM

Yes firstly is your SIM card a USIM....or is it a SIM card from an old handset?? I think youve already said you have had the 'U' appear on your TyTN at some point.....so again im going with the assumption you just dont have adequate UMTS reception for it to work....hence why you are only seeing 'G'.

So, funny story...
It seems where i was over the weekend (girlfriends) is borderline, so as mentioned aboved i can get 3G upstairs but not downstairs - i decided to drive around and got 3G all over the place...the best news is i get 2/3 bars of 3G at home too!
Problem solved, im an idiot - but hey, it doesn't hurt to ask right?
680kbps! Woo

richieboy said:
So, funny story...
It seems where i was over the weekend (girlfriends) is borderline, so as mentioned aboved i can get 3G upstairs but not downstairs - i decided to drive around and got 3G all over the place...the best news is i get 2/3 bars of 3G at home too!
Problem solved, im an idiot - but hey, it doesn't hurt to ask right?
680kbps! Woo
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
girlfrends! Woo

U in Canada with non3G sim?

Here in the US I am using T-Mobile, wich doesn't have 3G yet. So, I probably don't have a 3G sim in my Hermes, and everywhere I go, I always get only a G next to my phone icon. However, when I went to Toronto, Canada, this past week, the G changed to a U. Does that mean:
1) UMTS network was detected, but all it did was detect it, and keep using GSM?
2) UMTS network was detected, and I was able to connect to it, because the 3G in a 3G sim cards is for internet access only,
3) the U is for internet connection availability only, and doesn't affect the cell voice phone part of my TyTN?
or
4) I somehow got a 3G compatible SIM card, and had I wanted to, could've been charged $10 every 8 to 10 seconds for downloading REALLY fast (I get charged $10US a meg if I use web outside of USA)

Hello rassah,
In order to have a 3G service you do NOT have ot have a 3G SIM (also known as USIM). The network is backward compatible and will allow you to use whatever your SIM card (or the network) authorized you.
I am also TMO subscriber and in some countries I could use UMTS and in others only 2.5G (GPRS/EDGE). Technically you have no limitations to do so so its up to the commercial arrangements between TMO USA and the other operators.
So the bottom line:
a. Your device detected UMTS and the network allowed your device to be attached to the 3G network (hence you saw the "U").
b. You probably have a SIM and not USIM (like you mentioned TMO still does not have 3G network ready for commercial use).
c. It is perfectly OK technically to connect to a 3G network even if you have 2.5G SIM card (pending you are authorized by the network to get such a service).
You can do a simple test next time you are in Toronto or other place where you see the "U". Go to www.dslreports.com, they have speed tools, try to perform a speed test and if you are connected with "U" you should get 3G speed results (again, depends on the network and the quality of the signal.. you will see a result of something between 200k to 300k i would guess)
PS: You are right about the cost per meg. But look at the 3G speed as you get what you want but just faster so the bottom line is - you are being charged the same as 2.5G just get work done sooner

How do I tell I'm using HSDPA?

Hi, I'm aware that my UK T-mobile Ameo is HSDPA capable and I think I'm in a HSDPA covered area but the homescreen only ever shows a little 3G symbol (or a GSM symbol when I'm not in a 3G covered area).
Is there a way to know whether I'm using HSDPA?
I guess one way would be to do a download speed test - anyone know a convenient way to do one?

tfotherby said:
Is there a way to know whether I'm using HSDPA?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you were using HSDPA, the 3G symbol would change to an H.
However, if you only have the £7.50 web and walk package, and only signed up after the summer, you do not have HSDPA on your account.
The £12.50 and above tarriffs come with HSDPA automatically, but for the £7.50 plan, you need to ask for it and hope that someone likes you enough to add it.
By the way, On T-mobile, you will not see the H all the time. It will only appear when you are transferring data. At all other times you will see the 3G symbol so that you are able to receive calls. If you are transferring data on HSDPA, the T-Mobile Uk network will force you down to 3G while the call is routed to you, and then jump back to HSDPA when the call ends to carry on downloading.
T-Mobile is the only network i have seen that does this properly.
Also, T-Mobile has gone HSDPA on all of their 3G transmitters. If you get 3G coverage, you definitely have HSDPA coverage, but you don't necessarily have permission to connect at HSDPA speeds.

tfotherby said:
Hi, I'm aware that my UK T-mobile Ameo is HSDPA capable and I think I'm in a HSDPA covered area but the homescreen only ever shows a little 3G symbol (or a GSM symbol when I'm not in a 3G covered area).
Is there a way to know whether I'm using HSDPA?
I guess one way would be to do a download speed test - anyone know a convenient way to do one?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agreed, you will see the H symbol instead of the 3G signal - I am on O2 and it works fine (you should also see an E to show an Edge connection where available).
The point about tariffs is one for you to take up with T-Mobile.

Make sure the HSDPA checkbox is checked, in Settings > Connections > HSDPA Switch. When I'm in a 3G area and I start downloading something, the 3G symbol temporarily changes to an H symbol, then changes back to 3G when done.

cottinghamm said:
I am on O2 and it works fine
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Do you see the H all the time, or only when you are transferring data? I know that on some networks that have an old revision of the HSDPA software, it can cause issues with receiving calls if you are on HSDPA the whole time. Have you had any issues with this?

tfotherby said:
Hi, I'm aware that my UK T-mobile Ameo is HSDPA capable and I think I'm in a HSDPA covered area but the homescreen only ever shows a little 3G symbol (or a GSM symbol when I'm not in a 3G covered area).
Is there a way to know whether I'm using HSDPA?
I guess one way would be to do a download speed test - anyone know a convenient way to do one?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Firstly, you will only see an H if your ROM has different icons for 3G and HSDPA. Some do some don't. If the ROM doesn't have that facility, the 3G icon won't change even if you are occasionlly using HSDPA. As far as I am remember, some of the stock T-Mob ROMs do not include this.
You do not AFAIK need to ask T-Mobile for HSDPA. I have never asked them and regularly used it. I am on a £7.50 plan.
There are plenty of speed test sites out there - Google 3G speed test.

Another good site to check speed is "http://performance.toast.net/default.asp?allservers=1&checkid=" I usually check the "Text" box and try a few hosts...TJ

rhedgehog said:
Do you see the H all the time, or only when you are transferring data? I know that on some networks that have an old revision of the HSDPA software, it can cause issues with receiving calls if you are on HSDPA the whole time. Have you had any issues with this?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Only when data is transferred, the 3G symbol is there most of the time.

always been seeing the H on mine, right from the original T-Mobile UK ROM. All Windows mobile 6 ROMS from HTC include the different icons, and unless the operators specify to take them out, they should always be there.
the T-Mobile ROMs do include the different icons, as do all the AP ROMs.
Sometimes you DO have to ask T-Mob for HSDPA. They originally turned HSDPA on for the £7.50 contracts by default. They changed this standard policy sometime last year (as i stated in my first post, i think it was in the summer, but i'm not sure) and now not everyone has HSDPA on their contract. If you ever see the H you do...if not, you don't.

Any way to set 3G as permanent internet so it doesn't go to HDPSA?

I've been having internet troubles since i got my Hero a few weeks ago.
It seems to jump between '3G' and 'H' when I use any applications using the internet. This means that pages often fail to load/download, or appear slower than 2G connection speeds.
I think this is because I'm in an area which can just about receive HDSPA speeds sometimes, but not consistently, so I was wondering if there's any way to set the internet to stay at 3G and not attempt to connect to HDSPA? When I'm in areas where the best speed possible in 3G, the internet is infinitely faster than when it's jumping from 3G to H and back.
Thank You!

I'm not sure on the phone itself but from a network perspective you would need to ask you phone provider to change your QOS on the HLR (network control and provisioning) to a non HSDPA entry, eg t-mobile uk QOS 1201 = HSDPA 3.6

it doesn't work that way (the hlr qos profile). you can only set the maximum speed there, not the RAN technology which is used. i don't think there is anything you can do, the phone attaches to the best server (=cell with strongest signal), and if that cell supports hsdpa it is used for data transfer. as hsd(p)a is only an "addon" for umts i don't think that your connection would be better on the same cell, even if you were able to force umts usage. bad radio reception is bad radio reception... it is not uncommon that a stable EDGE connection works better than a weak umts/hspa signal, have you tried switching to 2g?

kendong2 said:
it doesn't work that way (the hlr qos profile). you can only set the maximum speed there, not the RAN technology which is used. i don't think there is anything you can do, the phone attaches to the best server (=cell with strongest signal), and if that cell supports hsdpa it is used for data transfer. as hsd(p)a is only an "addon" for umts i don't think that your connection would be better on the same cell, even if you were able to force umts usage. bad radio reception is bad radio reception... it is not uncommon that a stable EDGE connection works better than a weak umts/hspa signal, have you tried switching to 2g?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
of course you can, thousands of sims on networks are unable to use hsdpa because of a low qos, on t-mobile's uk system if you do not provision the web and walk plus SOC on the account the service order does not go through and they are unable to use HSDPA. I dont have a HSDPA qos and I dont get a H but if I use the sim that came with it I do.. best thing to do is give the networks tech support a ring with some times and locations and ask if they can look at what ever reporting system they use and look at network statistics at the time. Best to look at the sgsn;s and look at the stats at that point.
It doesnt matter if the cell supports hsdpa, hsdpa on the cell itself is only a capability to go back through to the msc. a footprint on a 3g cell will keep the closest strongest users when it hits max capacity, if you are on the outskirts you ill lose out.
the more you complain to the provider the qucicker they add some higher bandwidth lines to th local exchange or hub..
Might simply be a congested site, if so it should report itself...
naughty naughty trx

ahem... hspa is RAN (as in Radio Access Network) technology. it is applied to the communication between the handset and the node b, not anything behind the node b (not sure whether the rnc needs to be aware of it, but that's it, no msc involved). i am not sure whether the simcard needs to be hspa capable, but i have never heard of it. and i do provision sim cards for a living...

kendong2 said:
ahem... hspa is RAN (as in Radio Access Network) technology. it is applied to the communication between the handset and the node b, not anything behind the node b (not sure whether the rnc needs to be aware of it, but that's it, no msc involved). i am not sure whether the simcard needs to be hspa capable, but i have never heard of it. and i do provision sim cards for a living...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You are rightt hsdpa as a technology does get implemented between the mast (node b) and the handset.. what is added between the RNC and the node b is the LUB this is an added control mechanism, this kinda makes sure no data is loss occurs when the node b's buffers are overflowed! this is not a fool proof system, RNC? it could be a SRNC controller,, anyway you are right in what you say but as i have worked within this area i do know that when i was saying "SIMS" I didnt mean the actual sim itself i was referring to sims with old HLR profiles that cant access hsdpa! most pay as you go sims cant on tmob uk this stops them going £1 a day unlimited handset internet and hammering the sim in a dongle!! Im a big fan of provisioning btw! geeky as it sounds the complexity of mass provisioning failures interests me!

After 2 Weeks, I Am Throwing In The Towel

I received the Samsung Focus 2 weeks ago today. After I post this I will be heading over to Amazon Wireless to make return arrangements.
I come from a Windows Mobile (Tilt 2) and I don't think I am yet ready to transition to this type of phone. I depend too much on Pocket Informant and I couldn't find any app to replace that. Actually this is not really the reason I gave up. This is the reason that kept me on the fence.
At my work I have a very poor 3G signal indoors. The signal fluctuates between 2 bars to no signal indication and sometimes switching to Edge. With the Tilt 2 I turn off 3G and that keeps the phone happy. Several times I found the Focus showing no signal (small crossed out circle at the top left). Even after I went to an area with good 3G signal the Focus did not change from its no signal status. I had to actually turn it off and back on (soft reset, I guess) to get a strong 3G signal.
Searching on Google for means to turn 3G off in the Focus showed that only a few months ago there was such an option Settings | Cellular. Apparently now it is removed.
With 3G trying desperately to hang in there instead of just giving up and letting Edge take over, this phone is useless to me 8 to 12 hours a day. The Tilt 2 had a similar issue before I tweaked it to give me the band switch. However the Tilt 2 did not get stuck in the no signal state. I wish AT&T did not remove this from settings.
So long, Focus.

Um... there's totally still an option called Cellular in Settings. Whatever, though. If you don't enjoy the phone, there's no reason for you to keep it. However, there's equally no reason for you to share this information with us, since a large part of your issue is born of ignorance of the OS (not finding a setting that is clearly there) and your lack of enjoyment of the phone should have no effect on anyone who owns one.

FishFaceMcGee said:
Um... there's totally still an option called Cellular in Settings. Whatever, though. If you don't enjoy the phone, there's no reason for you to keep it. However, there's equally no reason for you to share this information with us, since a large part of your issue is born of ignorance of the OS (not finding a setting that is clearly there) and your lack of enjoyment of the phone should have no effect on anyone who owns one.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, the Cellular option is still there, in Settings. However, unlike screen shots or pictures I saw during my search (see this sample), I do not have the option to turn off 3G.
If your phone has it, good for you. Mine does not. Hardly a reason to call me ignorant for this though.

That's strange. My Focus appears to have better reception than my Tilt 2.
Actually, the 3G only setting is under the diagnostic menu I believe. The should have a thread in this forum on it.
Update
I checked and its under the test menu
*#32489#
Back
Back
[7] Network control
[2] Band Setting
This may help you.

Tempest790 said:
That's strange. My Focus appears to have better reception than my Tilt 2.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
For me, side by side, the 2 phones had a similar reception. The Tilt 2 got an extra bar or 2 when I forced it to Edge. However, the Tilt 2 did not get stuck with the no signal indication.
Actually, the 3G only setting is under the diagnostic menu I believe. The should have a thread in this forum on it.
Update
I checked and its under the test menu
*#32489#
Back
Back
[7] Network control
[2] Band Setting
This may help you.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
While at this moment I do not have the phone with me, I just looked in the PDF I downloaded from that other thread (the PDF shows [2] Band Selection) and I remember that I was in that area and when I tried to make a change I got a message saying something about the selection or option being restricted. Sorry, but I do not remember the exact words. I guess I could try again later tonight after I get home. Thank you.

Tempest790 said:
Update
I checked and its under the test menu
*#32489#
Back
Back
[7] Network control
[2] Band Setting
This may help you.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
When I select "[2] Band Selection" the exact message is:
"RAT Selection option is restricted".

Yeah, that's what I got. I also got my phone from freaking Amazon.com and didn't work right. Had do alittle talking around but they me exchange it at the Att Wireless Store. Have you actually tried any other Samsung Focus Phones to see if its just the phone itself?

I got mine from att store, I'm using the org diagnostic app version, I get same error message.

Seed 2.0 said:
I got mine from att store, I'm using the org diagnostic app version, I get same error message.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I would switch phones then. The phone has to be unlocked to switch bands, even turning off 3G. That's stupid, I know. I have a Dell Venue Pro sitting here that can switch bands but that phone is VERY buggy.

Fuzzy John said:
Yes, the Cellular option is still there, in Settings. However, unlike screen shots or pictures I saw during my search (see this sample), I do not have the option to turn off 3G.
If your phone has it, good for you. Mine does not. Hardly a reason to call me ignorant for this though.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
FWIW: 3G = "Data Connection" on the Focus' settings menu. As far as I know, 3G has nothing to do with voice calls. I suspect that the name of that switch was changed with an eye toward future data options on cell phones. I hope that helps. (Even the person who posted that picture notes that they modified the label to be "Cellular Data". You can see that in the comments area of the image/post that you listed. )

GrayWolf is correct
These are GSM phone and voice only works on 2G.. data on 3G and Edge if necessary. that is why you can talk and use the internet at the same time. You turning 3G off does nothing for your call reception what so ever. When you turn off the Celluar data you turn off both 3G and edge. Also I believe the bars are only for the voice service.

ITDRAGON said:
GrayWolf is correct
These are GSM phone and voice only works on 2G.. data on 3G and Edge if necessary. that is why you can talk and use the internet at the same time. You turning 3G off does nothing for your call reception what so ever. When you turn off the Celluar data you turn off both 3G and edge. Also I believe the bars are only for the voice service.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This might very well be correct, however on my Tilt 2 I have to turn off 3g in order to get full voice bars back in the location where my room is in my house. It doesn't seem to make any sense; why would the phone's 3g connection interfere w/ the 2g voice? Yet it seems like this is the case.

ITDRAGON said:
GrayWolf is correct
These are GSM phone and voice only works on 2G.. data on 3G and Edge if necessary. that is why you can talk and use the internet at the same time. You turning 3G off does nothing for your call reception what so ever. When you turn off the Celluar data you turn off both 3G and edge. Also I believe the bars are only for the voice service.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry. I may have used the wrong terms. After all I admit I am not really familiar with all the terminology. I am more like a user. Anyway, on my Tilt 2 phone I have a switch which turn off 3G. This puts the phone in Edge mode. Gives me a lot better reception in areas where the 3G signal is flaky. True, I cannot talk and do data at the same time. Also true that my data rate is slower. But I can receive and make calls while I am in that area.

ITDRAGON said:
GrayWolf is correct
These are GSM phone and voice only works on 2G.. data on 3G and Edge if necessary. that is why you can talk and use the internet at the same time. You turning 3G off does nothing for your call reception what so ever. When you turn off the Celluar data you turn off both 3G and edge. Also I believe the bars are only for the voice service.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nope. Both voice and data work on 3G if it is available. You can tell this by the fact that once your phone is on 3G, you will not encounter the annoying speaker buzz from GSM phones.
The switch in the settings are for cell data connection. If you turn it off, it turns off the data connection, 2G or 3G. There is no separate setting to turn off 3G data only (a commonly requested feature but non-existent on all AT&T phones). You will always have to access the secret menu to select your band (WCDMA or GSM).
The bars are for signal strength, not just for vocie service.

EDIT: rjohnstone
foxbat121 said:
Nope. Both voice and data work on 3G if it is available. You can tell this by the fact that once your phone is on 3G, you will not encounter the annoying speaker buzz from GSM phones.
The switch in the settings are for cell data connection. If you turn it off, it turns off the data connection, 2G or 3G. There is no separate setting to turn off 3G data only (a commonly requested feature but non-existent on all AT&T phones). You will always have to access the secret menu to select your band (WCDMA or GSM).
The bars are for signal strength, not just for vocie service.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
<snipped my "you're wrong" message, but leaving my other data here.>
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3G contains the following quote:
"The UMTS system, first offered in 2001, standardized by 3GPP, used primarily in Europe, Japan, China (however with a different radio interface) and other regions predominated by GSM 2G system infrastructure. The cell phones are typically UMTS and GSM hybrids. Several radio interfaces are offered, sharing the same infrastructure"
<snipped my "you're wrong" message, but leaving my other data here.>
http://www.phonescoop.com/phones/phone.php?p=2877
"Modes GSM 850 / 900 / 1800 / 1900
WCDMA 850 / 1900 / 2100"
Those are the GSM and 3G bands that the Samsung Focus uses. <snipped my "you're wrong" message, but leaving my other data here.>
I'm always willing to accept that I can be wrong (EDIT: and it seems that I was). I'm only human after all. If I'm the one who's somehow misunderstanding, then I would be open to having some information shared so that I can learn more about it. Would you have any links to back your claim up?

GrayWolf said:
I'm sorry to say that you've misunderstood how AT&T's network is set up. 3G + GSM = Data + Voice. Not 3G = Voice & Data.
contains the following quote:
"The UMTS system, first offered in 2001, standardized by 3GPP, used primarily in Europe, Japan, China (however with a different radio interface) and other regions predominated by GSM 2G system infrastructure. The cell phones are typically UMTS and GSM hybrids. Several radio interfaces are offered, sharing the same infrastructure"
To further back the position that our phones do not use 3G to carry voice data:
"Modes GSM 850 / 900 / 1800 / 1900
WCDMA 850 / 1900 / 2100"
Those are the GSM and 3G bands that the Samsung Focus uses. GSM for voice traffic, WCDMA (3G) for data.
I'm always willing to accept that I can be wrong. I'm only human after all. If I'm the one who's somehow misunderstanding, then I would be open to having some information shared so that I can learn more about it. Would you have any links to back your claim up?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
AT&T sends both voice and data traffic over the 3G connection when in a 3G area.
The GSM radio only comes into play when the data connection falls back to EDGE (i.e., 3G signal is too weak or not present).
This is why your call drops when you switch from a 3G area to a GSM/EDGE area.
It's a hard hand off to the next tower.

rjohnstone said:
AT&T sends both voice and data traffic over the 3G connection when in a 3G area.
The GSM radio only comes into play when the data connection falls back to EDGE (i.e., 3G signal is too weak or not present).
This is why your call drops when you switch from a 3G area to a GSM/EDGE area.
It's a hard hand off to the next tower.
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Thanks - would you happen to have any links that explains this in any detail?
I looked around after you mentioned it and found that I should have ran a few more keyword searches before posting. So far, the best explanation that I've found seems to be here:
"3G or Non 3G-that is the question"
http://forums.wireless.att.com/t5/G...at-is-the-question/m-p/1544262/highlight/true
The specific/relevant portion that I'm referring to is:
Yea 3G is amazing. It's the replacement for GSM. It's a completely seperate network. When in 3G at present signal in some area's might seem a bit more week than GSM because in some area's it runs on the 1900mhz frequency which has less penetration. But AT&T has plans of phasing out GSM in the future for 3G on the GSM frequency.
But 3G on the W-CDMA side handles call's and data, GSM also does handle voice and data. But the two networks are seperate. For example. If your phone is in 3G then the 3G network is handling the call and not transmitting anything to do with GSM at all. But if you travel to a non 3G area while in the call then your phone will hand off to the GSM network to continue the voice call and the call quality will get that crackly raspy phenomenom. Hope this helps!
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Now that's another person's statement on a forum and, like rjohnstone's post, makes logical sense. I'd love to read a bit more about this, if there are any useful links out there?

GrayWolf said:
Thanks - would you happen to have any links that explains this in any detail?
I looked around after you mentioned it and found that I should have ran a few more keyword searches before posting. So far, the best explanation that I've found seems to be here:
"3G or Non 3G-that is the question"
The specific/relevant portion that I'm referring to is:
Now that's another person's statement on a forum and, like rjohnstone's post, makes logical sense. I'd love to read a bit more about this, if there are any useful links out there?
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Graywolf,
My friend is a tower manager for T-Mobile.
He helped setup the initial GSM/EDGE network for Cingular back when they leased tower time from T-Mobile while they were making the transition from TDMA devices from the old AT&T network.
He explained how the call handlers worked and how the air interface works when handing off from UMTS/HSPA over to the GSM/EDGE network.
All of AT&T's handsets are programmed to use either GSM/EDGE or UMTS/HSPA, not both at the same time.
The point is, a handset can't have a GSM voice call and an HSPA data session occurring at the same time. The radios are not configured to allow it.
Many towers run both GSM/EDGE radios and UMTS/HSPA/HSPA+ radios.
Mainly to support legacy devices.
You will also notice that the old network is still there when you turn of the 3G radio in an iPhone or any other handset that permits it.
Yes, AT&T is working to decommission the older GSM/EDGE towers all together to recover the 850Mhz frequencies for use with HSPA+. This will give them better building penetration in large metropolitan areas.
Right now, AT&T does use the 1900MHz band for HSPA, and as the residence of NY will tell you, it sucks at going through walls.
You will have to do some digging for old AT&T press releases, but the info is out there.

Gotta give credit where it's due. I appreciate the technical detail combined with layman phrasing. I'll do more digging later but you've given me a nice high-level view of things. I did have a suspicion that my understanding was flawed somehow. Thanks for taking the time to share, rjohnstone!

Yep your right I typed it wrong.. voice and data both work on 2G and 3G, but I know I'm in a 3G area only and when I turn data off 3G goes out. Now that doesn't mean I'm only making or recieving calls on the 2G band. It just mean 3G data is off. So if you want to turn off 3G all together, I don't see it on these phones yet. When I turn the celluar data back on, the 3G symbol comes back on, because it would be pretty dumb for the 3G to be controlled by turning data on and off.