Related
I had the opportunity to play with a Wizard today.
I am going to say just one thing:
When I flip the keyboard thingie on the Wizard, the screen flip is instantaneous. Just instantaneous. (for the record, I happen to know exactly how long 1/5th of a second is, and it is not even that long)
On the Universal it takes what, 3 - 4 seconds?
Yes, yes! higher resolution and all that. But does that justify the same function on Universal to be at least 20 times slower? I think not!
I really can't believe that Universal is such a dog. Could it be something we are missing, like the CPU is underclocked by default or something?
Is there a way to find out how fast the CPU is running at a given time?
atekant said:
I had the opportunity to play with a Wizard today.
I am going to say just one thing:
When I flip the keyboard thingie on the Wizard, the screen flip is instantaneous. Just instantaneous. (for the record, I happen to know exactly how long 1/5th of a second is, and it is not even that long)
On the Universal it takes what, 3 - 4 seconds?
Yes, yes! higher resolution and all that. But does that justify the same function on Universal to be at least 20 times slower? I think not!
I really can't believe that Universal is such a dog. Could it be something we are missing, like the CPU is underclocked by default or something?
Is there a way to find out how fast the CPU is running at a given time?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
atekant: you're right on the button! I can almost prove it through trial and failure, but not conclusively. If you read the thread about the Jasjar and MDA Pro topping out at 624Mhz after being overclocked using PHM (Pocket Hack Master 2005), you will see that the Universal is not just slow in screen refresh rates, but also underperforms in the video playback department.
Plug in the mains adapter and performance issues are gone!! Successfully overclock to just 520Mhz (I know! It's supposed to run at that already!) and a lot of these performance issues are somewhat alleviated.
Personally, I believe that some universals have not different speed rating CPUs', but different chipsets, as not all Universal owners experience this problem e.g. Sub69 is ok on this front. But many other jasjar owners and MDA Pro owners have this same problem. My wife is on her 3rd MDA Pro, but that might be down to ROM version. Nonetheless, unless I overclock her Universal to 520 or 624Mhz, video performance is affected on videos encoded at a resolution of 640x480 (regardless of video bitrate).
Things have much improved on my own jasjar since my last hard-reset and not installing any 3rd party software that wasn't designed for WM5.0.
Anyway, that's my experience anyhow.
3rd party soft's not designed for wm05
but surely mackaby007, if a piece of software is not loaded into memory (ie used), why in the hell should it affect the performance, this is another insidious bug in my opinion, as i told u i am not going to try and hard reset just to test, but never should (or had with the o/ses i used like win, linux, epoc, symbian, unix, beos, macos, dos... etc) an application affect video or any other performance if its not loaded!
Re: Crossed wires!!
nabil2000 said:
but surely mackaby007, if a piece of software is not loaded into memory (ie used), why in the hell should it affect the performance, this is another insidious bug in my opinion, as i told u i am not going to try and hard reset just to test, but never should (or had with the o/ses i used like win, linux, epoc, symbian, unix, beos, macos, dos... etc) an application affect video or any other performance if its not loaded!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
nabil2000, I think we're getting our wires a little crossed here. I agree with you to a large extent that it could well be a down to software bugs, therefore affecting CPU utilisation, which will in turn affect performance, i.e. refresh rates, speed od operation and most obviously for me, video playback. having said that, you are aware that sub69 and I have the identical ROM and o/s build version. That doesn't leave much room for software being the culprit, being that we still get differences in general performance. I don't believe my unit is at all faulty. I do think, however, that there is a two-fold problem that concerns some but not all Universal owners:
1) I don't believe for one second that all manufactured units have identical hardware, only specs! Different manufactured chips with same performance rating, but different response in real world use. This is nothing new in the world of computing.
2)I do believe that the o/s / ROM is bug ridden and can/will be resolved in due time.
As for your point about unloaded software affecting performance, I agree totally, that is highly improbable.
rom leakage into memory
maybe soft resets do not get rid of the unloaded apps completely, and so we get remnants/debris of apps left behind, which can only be removed with hard resets...
so if this is the case, and my hunch is that it is, a rom upgrade which will flush memory properly and completely every soft reset will get the problem solved... (or allow some backup mechanism that will allow for non-destructive hard resets)...
as for the hardware issue, i am not a chip processor manufacturer so i would not know, but some people in this board seem to know that this is the case (ie variations in hardware that preserve official hardware specs, with some having the potential to be more performant than others beyond what is advertised)...
either way, my contention is the better the specs, advertised or otherwise, the happier the clients, and the better for the future of the HTC/i-mate dealership venture ...
and by the way that trick they pulled (htc/i-mate) that the reason they included less ram was to preserve battery life, the same stunt was pulled by nokia to justify why they used a slower processor (150 mhz i think) on their nokia n9500 communicator...
they think customers are fools, but we are becoming more astute and discerning than ever before in our choices... so they better watch out instead of insulting our intelligence
Well, no, not quite 3-4 seconds for the screen flip. More like 1-2 seconds
If you disable the O2 Active interface by going to Programs>Install Type>Basic then soft reset, it does speed up the screen flipping somewhat.
MDA Pro, Jasjar, Dopod, SPV M5000 and Exec, oh & VPA IV!
Tha's assuming that every Universal owner has an Exec! :lol:
Removing all Today Plug-ins will increase the speed as well...
mackaby007 said:
...Successfully overclock to just 520Mhz (I know! It's supposed to run at that already!) and a lot of these performance issues are somewhat alleviated...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
When I use PHM to look at the current processor speed, it already reports 520. Are you saying yours reported a slower speed?
If mine shows 520, should I just leave it alone and not use PHM??
(The test at 624 fails each time)
[/quote]Well, no, not quite 3-4 seconds for the screen flip. More like 1-2 seconds
Actually, for me its more like 6 seconds, painfully slow...
Fernando
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am a bit confused here. On one hand, it would seem that this is entirely a WM5 issue, as other devices with VGA screens do switch instantaneously (e.g., iPaq 4700 and others); it is not good that the JASJAR takes this long. However, the K-JAM screen rotation is fast but it has a QVGA screen, so it may be a VGA thing after all.
Or is it that WM5 and VGA don't "mix well"?
Any thoughts?
Fernando
Not trying to be the exception to the rule here but screen switching on by JJ is actually instantaneous. I have not done any RU and am still on the old one.
Those experiencing more than a second must be doing so due to plug-ins and non-WM5 compliant software installed.
"trick they pulled (htc/i-mate) that the reason they included less ram was to preserve battery life, the same stunt was pulled by nokia to justify why they used a slower processor (150 mhz i think)"
Hmm, If you read the article on Buzznet about power, written by a MS employee, or have ANY knowledge of electronics you would understand that both of these are completely true.
Less ram, or slower processor = longer battery life.
I used Wm5 on my Himalaya and NEVER ONCE went over 50meg ram used, let alone 64. Why on earth would you want 128???
orinoco said:
other devices with VGA screens do switch instantaneously (e.g., iPaq 4700 and others)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
4700 has an ATI video chipset, Himalaya and
Blueangel too, and the screen flipping is
done in hardware.
Universal and Magician use the LCD controller
built into the CPU, so they are dog slow.
Don't have any info on Wizard.
I knew the Jasjar was lacking something!!
cr2 said:
orinoco said:
other devices with VGA screens do switch instantaneously (e.g., iPaq 4700 and others)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
4700 has an ATI video chipset, Himalaya and
Blueangel too, and the screen flipping is
done in hardware.
Universal and Magician use the LCD controller
built into the CPU, so they are dog slow.
Don't have any info on Wizard.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I knew i wasn't loopy! That would explain poorer video performance on the Universal then, wouldn't it? Whilst the Universal is a very capable video player, it lacks power for higher resolution vids, hence the need for overclocking or the mains adapter to eradicate the 'jerking' some of have experienced in vids encoded at 640x480 @ more than 600kbps!
This issue of mine is becoming old hat now, so I'll give it a rest, but my fears have been justified, in that, whilst my jasjar is now performing beautifully, the only area left for me to complain is in the speed of screen flipping from standby mode and videoplack at high resolutions - lack of dedicated ATI video chipset explains it all to me now.
Cheers guys. :wink:
Re: So you think Universal is not slow? Only in two areas!!
CJSnet said:
mackaby007 said:
...Successfully overclock to just 520Mhz (I know! It's supposed to run at that already!) and a lot of these performance issues are somewhat alleviated...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
When I use PHM to look at the current processor speed, it already reports 520. Are you saying yours reported a slower speed?
If mine shows 520, should I just leave it alone and not use PHM??
(The test at 624 fails each time)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
CJSnet: Sorry mate, don't waste any more time on PHM. I won't anyway. It doesn't make enough of a difference for me in what I want from the Universal. I got my speed boost for the o/s from another program called GSPocketmagic. Don't ask me how this has worked out, I don't know, but it works for me!!
As has been made obvious, the universal has been manufactured without an ATI video chipset, therefore putting more strain on the CPU to handle screen refresh, flipping and video playback! So, in my opinion, we have to accept it as one of the shortcummings of the Universal. In every other way though, my Jasjar is now very quick and I'm not complaining.
best of luck. :wink:
Hi all,
To be honest, I don't know why many ppl complain about the EXEC.
I have been using mine for a month now.
I never did any rom upgrade, just use the original O2 rom, apart from installing it via the corporate install (o2 ext is too slow and big/useless). Then I notice my speed is quick, everything is fine. Stable and no problem. Even Tomtom 5.1 never failed on my device.
I never encounter the slowliness or bugs that other ppl is talking about with my original rom.
Does anyone else agree with me?
To be honest, I think perhaps the buggy version is the original HTC rom.
I do agree with you. To be honest, I do feel it's slower than my old XDAIIs, but that's probably because the programs haven't been properly optimised for WM5 and WM5 itself is still very buggy. Yet, it's still very useable and I don't feel that it's too slow for regular usage. It has also been perfectly stable!
To be honest for me it sucks..
Changed to corporate install yet too slow.
Available storages (RAM and Flash) to less around 40-50 meg each.
Some of programs doesn't work when installed on SD storage.
And yet to get Tomtom running..
Feeling disappointment with Exec.
slower than my old XDAIIs
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I only saw a glimpse of an Exec in action so I couldn't really judge the speed, but I hope you're wrong about that. The 2s is horribly slow!
The XDA2 performed almost as fast as a device with a 400mhz processor should. The XDA2s had an improved processor and memory and yet managed to be much slower and far less stable. The XDA Exec has a far faster processor and yet manages to run even slower?!?!?! WTF?!?! Does nobody else see a problem here?
Perhaps if HTC tried to make their next PPC slower it will end up performing better? I mean, my 400mhz, 128mb RAM XDA2s struggles to run a simple caller ID program quick enough for me to tell who is calling before they hang up.
My 10mhz (guesstimate) nokia 5110 in 1998 had working caller ID. This leads me to a simple conclusion: either we're lied to about proccessing power and memory specs of our PPCs OR the people who program windows mobile are ****tards. I'm leaning towards the second option
Why not just do soem simple product testing and spend 2 weeks resolving issues before selling these things as a working product?! I'm sure it wouldn't kill them!
Rant over.
I think the slow came from WM5 CE ROM , I did try Dopod 900 ROM flush to O2 Exec the speed better than O2 ROM
Xda IIs if upgrade to WM5 and overloack to 530 that speed better than Exec , but depend how you used and how you look for ,I think you remember how we used pentium II or III or Iv samething will come with PPC.
mike freegan - I'm with you regarding the lack of product testing. I use PDAs and Smartphones from Symbian and Palm so I know what sort of quality one should expect. A lot of PPC/WM5 users (fans?) say that the JJ/Exec is a PDA and therefore we should not epxect too much from the phone functionality. Well I disagree as the JJ/Exec has video and voice calling - why have these if they are not really functional? I am certain the issue is software development, integration & testing. I think we'll have to wait 6 months before WM5 problems have been sorted, in time for Vista! Also regarding speed, this is to do with the hardware architetcure. Using flash memory for persistent storage does make the overall performance slower and the high res screen must require more processing for rendering etc. So I think we need to wait for JJ II or Exec2 for hardware improvements (like more fast RAM).
Don't know about the Exec vs XDAIIs, but my JasJar is a definite step forward from my PDA2K.
I haven't experienced any of the millions of problems being reported either, so I guess I'm one of the lucky ones!
tested a friend's xda exec (can't seem to find a good deal for a universal here in the US) and it works fine ... as for myself, i'm stuck with my o2 xda 2s until a good option for me to get either the xda exec, htc wizard or the sonyericsson p990 ...
since upgrading my xda 2s with O2 UK's latest ROM i've rarely reset my phone. the only major upgrade i did with O2 UK's ROM was to upgrade the radio to 1.13 ... never had any problems with it and use both the blackberry connect and the exchange active sync functions on it and it works fine ...i've used the terminal services and VNC functions on my phone to log on to the different servers i maintain within a local network and from externally and they have a good connections the only issue would be the obvious limitation of screen size .... bluetooth is ok compared to my sony ericsson p910i but the 2s is more of a pda than the p910 ....
can't wait for my next upgrade .... damn if only the US would actually realize that we're 4 years behind everybody else when it comes to mobile technology ....
@difensore, is the Treo 700w an option for you on Verizon using Evdo (which is better for speed then the Euro UMTS)
I'm using JasJar for over one month now, and I can say that it's a fantastic device, there is no doubt there are some bugs, but due to the softwares installed on devices which had no enough time to be tested properly.
If you want to proove this, just hard reset your device, and use it before installing any software and you will see the difference, with me it worked like a charm.
Universal is a fantastic and amaizing device.
It's a new technology, the smallest and the lightest lap top I've ever seen.
Regards,
mike freegan said:
slower than my old XDAIIs
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The 2s is horribly slow!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is true if you've left all the o2 software running on it. Without the o2 software and with proper task managers running, it runs as fast as any Pocket PC should. Not as quick as a wish, but enough to function very well as both a phone and a Pocket PC!
This applies to both the XDAIIs and the XDA EXEC, in my humble opinon!
If anyone has removed *every* O2 active application from the startup and it still runs slow, I'd love to hear from you guys!
I want to know wich one you think is better htc prophet or o2 Atom!
imho;
speed, size = atom (though ive never used one)
batterylife = prophet
im pleased with the jamin but its just too slow.
The Prophet and the Atom both have absolutely the same battery life. In a recent benchmark that was done my Mobile01, it was shown that the Atom actually had a longer battery life (by 4 minutes) than the Prophet.
You can check their review here:
http://mobile01.com/newsdetail.php?id=2471
Speed-wise the JAMin IS SLOW. The Atom on the other hand is much faster especially after the latest ROM Upgrade.
The JAMin however has a really good camera. Its one of the best i have seen in its class.
THANKS ,I think I made up my mind I am going for the O2 atom but I have to find out were to get it first Its hard to get hold of!
universaldoc said:
Speed-wise the JAMin IS SLOW. The Atom on the other hand is much faster especially after the latest ROM Upgrade.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I was under the impression that the Prophet is fast and the Atom slow.
Atom is nearly there
Having owned an Atom for three weeks, I have to say it is certainly the best PDA/Phone I have used. Initially I was horrified at its performance (or lack thereof!), but the second ROM update has finally got it to where it should have been. It is certainly faster than my XDAII, XDAIIs and is up there with XDAIIi. It is also very stable, running more than a week without needing soft reset. I use Battery Pack Pro as a PPC management utility (known to slow down systems) without any real speed issues, and have it loaded up with a number of apps inc Cash Organizer, Collins Eng-French dictionary, Personal Vehicle manager, 1-Calc, and Illium e-wallet. They all work fine with WM5. I intend to load either Destinator or Navman once they get WM5 versions out. Co-Pilot already works with WM5 so I might use that if nothing happens soon.
Windows media chews vast amounts of memory, and everything slows when it is running. On the other hand, the A2DP works very well with my HP BT Headphones, inc track forward/back.
Two disappointments though. No BT Voice dialling, which I would have thought to be mandatory with a Handsfree Profile (the Exec has it!), and the Camera. The Camera is better than it was with the earlier ROMS, raising its performance to at least "crap" level, but it really a waste of time. It is slow to open, often crashes the system, is very slow to respond to a button press (lots of pictures of my feet as the shutter triggers up to 3 seconds after the shutter noise), and the white balance is all wrong, lots of red "flaring" and a blue tinge to the dark areas.
However, I didn't buy the system expecting to ever use the camera so that doesn't worry me. Photos from the Prophet seem much better so if a camera is important to you, give the Atom a miss.
Apart from the Voice Dialling issue therefore I think it is just about perfect. Its as small as many straight phones, has a reliable Bluetooth with decent range (unlike the terrible IIs with its 3 foot max range), has a robust Radio Stack (with reception as good as my Nokia 6230i, Atom has no external aerial connection although that never seems to make any difference anyway), a clear screen and very good stereo speakers.
A pair of hardware buttons to complement the WM5 interface would be an improvement, and a stronger battery cover wouldn't go astray.
Overall, I'm pretty happy, which I never was with the other models. It will be interesting to see what Quanta do with a larger form factor. A IIi sized machine with VGA and WM5 would be interesting! Cheers
People sang the Prophet's praises here
http://forum.xda-developers.com/viewtopic.php?t=38148
They gave me the impression that the Prophet is all that plus a bag of chips.
27 said:
People sang the Prophet's praises here
http://forum.xda-developers.com/viewtopic.php?t=38148
They gave me the impression that the Prophet is all that plus a bag of chips.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
if that ,what about the speed and the fm radio and the size?
have a look at this; http://pocketpcdubai.com/i-mate_PPC/jamin/reviewp2.html
what is slow ?
hi,
i have seen a lot of messages saying the htc prophet is slow. i would like to know what slow means for each poster, slow doing what ?
is skype slow, is wmp 10 slow, or is everything slow ? any information of relative stability of the platforms would also be appreciated.
last thing, i have read that he camera on htc prophet is better. ok, but is it really any good for taking pictures, or is it just a gadget.
thanks for all help,
scott
i read both bad and good things about the omap cpu. in theory its meant to be good but in practice sadly its not very good. yes, software isnt optimised for the chip.. but who here wishes to wait for a year or 2 before all software has been updated? and before then, we may have 1ghz pocket pcs :/
i love everything about the prophet over my original jam.. but sadly the cpu choice htc made completely ruins what could have been the ultimate device.
ive tried the eten m600 recently but wasnt happy with a few things and now im unhappy with the prophet im tempted by the o2 atom.. one last chance for me to find the perfect device?
for now, i think i will be going back to my trusty and speedy jam and my exec.
I agree with Camtech - the Atom is a neat device though only with the latest ROMs is the speed acceptable. Earlier ROMS were painfully slow and most stores are now selling Atoms in Australia and doing updates for customers.
There are some reported issues most noticeable the BT needs work - units are reporting a noticeable hiss on BT audio (including A2DP) and a personal favourite, the BT used to work hands free with my BMW but after the latest ROM it doesn't! :roll:
Early adopter pains - the Atom has only been released (AFAIK) in Asia/Oceania.
universaldoc said:
The Prophet and the Atom both have absolutely the same battery life. In a recent benchmark that was done my Mobile01, it was shown that the Atom actually had a longer battery life (by 4 minutes) than the Prophet.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't have an Atom but can speak about the Prophet. I'm running into the 3rd day of usage without a charge and the battery is still 23%! I've taken a good number of calls, recieved a 4MB file over BT, had WiFi switched on for about half an hour and listened to about 2.5 hours of MP3s.
Not bad I think :wink:
I am thinking about getting a Prophet next. The speed issuse is my only concern.
I see that you can increase the clock speed on the Charmer since it's the same CPU I guess it will work on the Prophet. Anyone tried this?
This http://forum.xda-developers.com/viewtopic.php?t=40457 thread says 472MHz! that would do me if it can play DivX 624x352 video at 100% speed.
I have the Jamin (Prophet). And heres the skinny on the "Slowness"
It is slow. And it will be noticeable. But when people compare slowness from a device. We are talking about 1/2 second to a second slower. Thats about it. For normal operation, opening windows, menus, programs, the Atom will be .5-1 second faster. How much is that really? It depends on you. .5-1 second faster is VERY noticeable. But what does mean for your productivity? The Atom will get something done a few seconds faster.
Thats about it, really.
Now when it comes to running something while your doing something else. It may be slow enough to be unuseable aka SKYPE (if you had 1 second lag on a video game, that game is effectively unplayable, etc). But when it comes up usually when your Mp3 is on, your surfing the internet, and you suddenly get a call. Or when your GPS is on and you get a call. You will feel it lag, and it WILL still work. Your just talking about the feeling of "snappiness" etc, but the end result is not much different. The Atom will pick up a call and be in call on maybe the first ring. It will take the third ring maybe for the Prophet to pick up the call. Both while in GPS or something.
Realistically speaking, NONE of that matters. So what if what your device slows down a bit? Even if you miss a call, does that really affect anything, when you can just call the person right back?
So what if basic usage is about 1/2 second slower?
I won't get into the overclocking of the OMAP. Suffice to say, it makes it just as fast as the Atom/Eten when you activate it for specific applications, or keep it overclocked (which would makes all usage very fast).
Now heres the part where NOTHING the atom can do will overcome its inadequacies:
Lack of 850mhz. If you care about using your phone first, then you want reception. If your on Tmobile, congratulations you have no reception in many buildings, basements, rural areas, even suburbs. N/A if your not in the North America.
Crappy Camera. Utterly unuseable camera functionality and picture quality. My Jamin takes DIGICAM quality pictures, saves very fast, and the shutter time is close to 1 second.
Build Quality and Battery life. Whoever quoted that review which showed equal battery life, WRONG. That review has been updated by the editor and the Prophet is estimated to have about 25% MORE battery life. I don't know about you, but the first thing in a device like this you should be worrying about IS Battery life.
As far as I'm concerned, the Atom has NOTHING on the Prophet. With the glossy and reportedly cheap casing, lack of 850, and useless camera. The Prophet is my all in one 4GB Mp3 player, Camera, PDA, and phone. Overclock it when if you really feel you must, and then the Atom loses the one single advantage it ever had.
As a consumer, this was pretty much obvious to me. I wouldn't buy an inferior product. So I bought the Prophet after reading the reviews.
Just finished first 24 hrs with JAMin. Works well in all areas and only slightly slower than my JAM. Was able to use Tom Tom, play MP3 in MortPlayer and take a call. After call both apps kept working.
I was also won over by the build quality of this device over the ATOM and the £100 price difference!!
Melchior said:
Realistically speaking, NONE of that matters. So what if what your device slows down a bit? Even if you miss a call, does that really affect anything, when you can just call the person right back?
So what if basic usage is about 1/2 second slower?
As a consumer, this was pretty much obvious to me. I wouldn't buy an inferior product. So I bought the Prophet after reading the reviews.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Soo.. you wont buy an inferior product, but you bought a phone that sometimes doesnt pick up a call? That's inferior.
I couldn't think of anything more ANNOYING than not seeing/hearing my phone ring, and then 2 hours later realising someone tried to call me about something really important, or even more annoying, hearing it ring and not being able to answer it. If i had to call back every 2nd or 3rd person who called me, my mobile bill would go through the roof.
Ruxton said:
Melchior said:
Realistically speaking, NONE of that matters. So what if what your device slows down a bit? Even if you miss a call, does that really affect anything, when you can just call the person right back?
So what if basic usage is about 1/2 second slower?
As a consumer, this was pretty much obvious to me. I wouldn't buy an inferior product. So I bought the Prophet after reading the reviews.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Soo.. you wont buy an inferior product, but you bought a phone that sometimes doesnt pick up a call? That's inferior.
I couldn't think of anything more ANNOYING than not seeing/hearing my phone ring, and then 2 hours later realising someone tried to call me about something really important, or even more annoying, hearing it ring and not being able to answer it. If i had to call back every 2nd or 3rd person who called me, my mobile bill would go through the roof.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You gotta be kidding me. Missing a call would NEVER happen, unless you are running SKYPE, GPS, Internet Explorer a video in the background. I'm saying the issues at hand aren't even really ISSUES. I'm not saying it actually AFFECTS the device under normal usage. Please READ my ENTIRE post next time instead of taking quotes out of context please.
Wth are you smoking with the phone bill argument? Are you magically getting charged for the missed call or am I missing something?
When people argue about the OMAP's speed and give retarded examples that either never happen or happen ONCE in a blue moon. First of all how many times are you going to be using a GPS (in your car) and receive a call. In such RARE circumstances, the only difference between the Atom and the Prophet is that the Prophet might lag a little more than the Atom. How many times will you be playing a video and suddenly receive a call? For all intents and purposes, the Prophet's processor copes with and WORKS for any sort of realistic multitasking scenario. The Atom's ofcourse works a bit FASTER.
ALL of this MOOT when you overclock. Set your overclocking preferences to when you open your GPS, or load a video file, or using the internet. Guess what, the Atom no longer has ANY advantage if you choose to do this.
Unfortunately for the Atom, you can't overclock OR overcome its lack of 850, much touted but unuseable 2MP camera, and inferior build.
Again, as a consumer, I will be doing my research and buying the best product. I happen to be on Cingular. If you happen to live outside of North America, and you don't care that the device your buying costs about $100 more and is (-) Camera. The Atom IS better for you. In the US, you either go Verizon for the best reception, or you can go Cingular for great reception and more choice in GSM phones. If your on T-Mobile, God won't even help you on your reception. I speak from experience when moving from T-Mobile to Cingular, it was like Night and Day in most areas.
I'm not defending the Prophet because I bought it. I can easily sell it IF there was a better device. I bought a Wizard 2 WEEKs ago, and that didn't fit my taste at all, so I promptly sold it. I'm trying to let people understand that depending on your user habit, location, and NEEDS of a device, the Prophet or Atom may be more suitable.
AS it boils down in comparison
The ONLY thing the Atom has: Speed
The Prophet has: Camera, SD card, Reception, and Build Quality.
Overclock, and the Atom has absolutely NO advantage.
If you don't wish to overclock, dont need the camera, don't mind the mini SD, don't need the 850mhz, and prefer the shiny black finish, the Atom IS a better device for you.
For most of us (especially in the US), the Prophet's features and versatility far outweigh its slightly slower operation. Overall, I think most people would agree that the Prophet is a better device than the Atom. I would much prefer my cheaper 4gb Mp3 player, 2MP Camera, Phone, Internet and PDA all in one over a 2gb Mp3 player, inferior reception phone, and slightly faster internet and pda functionality.
I NEVER missed any call no matter how many applications I have open. The OMAP has a dedicated code for phone related applications so no matter how many apps you have open, the phone is always responsive.
I sometimes missed calls on the magician when I had many apps open. Phone app responsivness on the Prophet is better than the Magician's!!
Melchior said:
It is slow. And it will be noticeable. But when people compare slowness from a device. We are talking about 1/2 second to a second slower. Thats about it. For normal operation, opening windows, menus, programs, the Atom will be .5-1 second faster. How much is that really? It depends on you. .5-1 second faster is VERY noticeable. But what does mean for your productivity? The Atom will get something done a few seconds faster.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Translation - one of these items will be annoying compared to what you are used to - the other would not. Let's put it this way, I wouldn't go out and buy a PC that was slower than my previous one, let alone for more money.
Melchior said:
The Atom will pick up a call and be in call on maybe the first ring. It will take the third ring maybe for the Prophet to pick up the call. Both while in GPS or something.
Realistically speaking, NONE of that matters. So what if what your device slows down a bit? Even if you miss a call, does that really affect anything, when you can just call the person right back?.
...Unfortunately for the Atom, you can't overclock OR overcome its lack of 850, much touted but unuseable 2MP camera, and inferior build....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Depends on if you think you spent your money on a phone - or a toy. And judging by your fixtion on the camera ( the camera in all these phones are a joke frankly). I'd have to wonder.
I'm much more interested in buying phone from someone that makes the phone part work well, before they go spending effort on a toy camera. Talk about a messed up sense of priorities...
Build quality remains to be seen - proven only by long term usage.
There is not point in touting a device beyond its weaknesses. The Prophet/Jamin may be fine for some. But its sheer folly to go around pretending that its weaknesses would not affect anybody or that 850mhz is an issue that affects most of the world - it doesn't. Many people dont give a fig about 850. We don't live in US or Canada.
skagen said:
Let's put it this way, I wouldn't go out and buy a PC that was slower than my previous one, let alone for more money.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But then I also wouldn't get a new PC that only had half the storage of my old one. I have a 4GB card in my Magican that I will have to throw away with the Atom.
My contract is up in July if nothing else comes out before then with:-
* Full size SD / SDIO
* Wifi
* 400+MHz
* WM2005
* 2MP+ Camera (ideally with autofocus & optical zoom)
* Same form factor as my Magician
* USB2
* USB Host
* D3D hardware
* VGA (ok now I'm dreaming)
* Built in GPS (the new sort that work indoors)
Then I guess I'll have to go for the Prophet due to the investment in my memory card.
Maybe I can just set the clock speed to 400Mhz permanently and live with shorter battery life......
I've got a Magician at the moment, and was thinking of upgrading to a Prophet.
Is is worth it? Obviously this question is relative, so if you think so (or why not) then us know why =]
I have updated myself from Magician to Prophet and would say it is worth it. Windows mobile 5 with its new soft keys is so much easy to use than WM2003. I would upgrade for that reason alone.
Besides, the slower process (in MHz) is not really a difference. The overall performance of the device is on par with Magician.
Moreover, WiFi and EDGE and additional benifits if you make use of it.
On a side note, I like the looks of Prophet better than Magician. It feels more professional than Magician.
I would definitely echo what Itanium2 said. I have also upgraded from the Magician to the Prophet and love it, one handed use is so a lot easier and the softkeys are great.
There are a couple of minor annoyances for me with WM5 over WM2003:
1. Contacts forgets where you are, so if you have scrolled down your contact list, or opened a contact, then say go back to the Today screen, click on the contacts button you are back at the beginning of your contacts list - this is very annoying!
2. Mobile Excel doesn't save your zoom settings. I use Excel quite a bit and WM2003 used to save your zoom settings for each spreadsheet, however now everytime you open a spreadsheet you are at 100% zoom...
Still on the whole, after upgrading to the latest Imate ROM I find the device as stable as the magician was, with a good battery lif. One thing you might like to consider when buying your Prophet is the Imate Jam vs the Orange M600 - the Imate has a much brighter screen (unfortunately I did not find this out until I had brought the M600). Side by side it is really noticeable.
I upgraded my Magician to a Prophet.
Things that made me upgrade.
Wifi (tired of carrying around a wifi SD card)
Brighter screen in daylight
WM5-when power is lost, you still have a working PPC
There are lots of other little things that are better, but for me these were the biggies. Edge is nice of course, but that wasn't a deal breaker since in Europe we avoid data over providers because it is so expensive. If you don't use your Wizard in bright daylight and Wifi isn't important to you on a frequent basis then I think it comes down to money...if you can afford the new toy then why not, otherwise save the 500 dollars for a digital SLR etc.
Do it! I did.
It felt a bit slower to me so I have overclocked it using the tool in this thread: http://forum.xda-developers.com/viewtopic.php?t=55782
It flies along quite nicely now. 8)
TheBrit said:
Do it! I did.
It felt a bit slower to me so I have overclocked it using the tool in this thread: http://forum.xda-developers.com/viewtopic.php?t=55782
It flies along quite nicely now. 8)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I still have my Magician as well the Prophet and I have to say that even with the overclocking utility the Prophet is still very much slower than the Magician. Also the screen on the Prophet although undeniably brighter seems to be less responsive in comparison to the Magician. This last point may be down to my units only and could be affected by the screen scratch protection which are from different makers.
Other than those two points, Prophet beats Magician in every other respect.
Here's my 2 cents.
I have upgraded to the Prophet (JAMin) as well. I have to say that I would never get back to the Magician.
Usability has improved greatly, battery life is amazing, overall speed is definitely acceptable.
Well, I am not able to play any of my videos without overclocking the device (or re-encoding them - no way!), but considering all improvements I have found and loved, I would not really care... Unless a new fast CPU equipped device hits the market, of course !
Ciao.
I have had both a Magician and a Prophet, and there isn't a large enough difference to warrant the upgrade. You should wait! Wait to get a 640x480 display with the same dimensions as the Jam. They already have 2.8 inch 640x480 sceen, it’s just a matter of time for them to stick in it in the form-factor
http://www.engadget.com/2006/07/04/sharps-w-zero3es-ws007sh-winmo-5-pocket-pc-hotness-redef/
Why I use the Jam over the Jamin:
1} The Jamin is WAY slower, people can rationalize all they want with FileCache and OCing, but I run my Magician at 585Mhz and there is no way the Prophet compares to it, they are completely in different leagues… and though people say its really only a problem in watching movies, (which it IS!) you still brutally feel the loss when you are tasking around the device…
2} Though persistent storage is nice, its 1/2 the reason the device is slow. I run a SpriteBackup every night, keeping 8 rollover copies on the card, (4gig card)... worst case I lose a day... If the Prophet becomes unusable, (virus, corrupted registry, from all that writefilecaching)) you lost the device and have to hard reset... everyone should do nightly backups regardless of device, but if you did that, what do you need persistence storage for?
3} Wifi: That is a tough one… if there is one thing I miss its wifi, but you rarely find free-hotspots and if you primarily use it at home, (I do) then get a Bluetooth dongle, they have 300 foot range, which covers the whole house. But if you HAVE to have wifi, consider something like this...
http://www.expansys.com/product.asp?code=121110
4} Camera: the 1.3 and the 2meg are the same in that they are both complete crap.
5} WM5: I am most concerned about this. If MS or others developers make WM5 only apps, then that will become a HUGE problem. But for now it hasn’t happen. And given how many W2003SE there are, its not going to happen for a while.
Final Thoughs: As soon as a JAM-type with a 640x480 display comes along I will toss the JAM but for now, why bother getting a device that has more shortcomings then enhancements.
Thanks for all your replies!
One reason I was worried about upgrading is that I always use my device overclocked - it just seems too slow without. I knew that I couldn't use PHM with the different processor, but it's good to see there's an OMAP overclock util. But it's in beta, and I'm not sure if I could be bothered tinkering with it if somebody already has and says that it's slower anyway.
Flash memory and extended battery life have never been an interest, as I backup weekly (Sprite Backup FTW) and always carry a spare battery.
I have a sandisk 128mb+wifi (hard to find cheaply in Australia), which I'm sure I'll find a use for one day. USB+Card Export = faster regardless.
I never use the camera, mind you, I've seen some shots from the Jamin and they look better.
Also, I'll be moving to Japan in the next year or so, and I didn't really want to spend that much on a device that I'll have to sell later on when I move. Besides, that link James posted looks like it's probably worth waiting and getting a new phone over there.
Ultimately, I was looking for some majorly convincing argument to upgrade. At the moment, it'd only be for the extra two buttons because I've already given AE Button Plus three events for the three buttons I've got. Oh well. Thanks anyway guys.
slvrbllt said:
Well, I am not able to play any of my videos without overclocking the device (or re-encoding them - no way!)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Say what? I've heard this a couple of times now and I can't help but wonder what you people are doing to your devices? My Prophet runs on normal speed and I've never had problems playing my videos! I use Pocket DivX Encoder and if you choose the right setting the video will be crisp and clear and the playback will be smooth like... err... something REALLY smooth!
As I said I've never had any problems with videos so please don't use this to bash the Prophet. You should rather look into what you're doing wrong!
JamesManios said:
4} Camera: the 1.3 and the 2meg are the same in that they are both complete crap.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ha! What? The last time I went on vacation I actually left my digital camera at home since I now have a real good camera in my pocket all the time. The pics are great. If you want to enlargen them to billboard size of course you might want to get some other equipment. I'll attach a picture that I took so you can look at the quality yourself. And no! It is not porn, thank you!
[edit] Oh, nevermind the picture. Is there a way I can attach it for everybody to download without the pic being displayed and completely destryoing the look of the thread?
A) I must agree with Jayxz. Played DivX from Sandisk 512 (old, relatively slow one) with no problem, 29fps and all.
Never had to overclock.
I had a chance to play with Mio 701 which has a faster processor and the only difference in performance I noticed was with the iGO nav software. And that was just a slight improvement.
B) Jayxz: Personally I need no proof of picture quality, but if you want to post it any way, just zip it (better for downloads any way) or change the extension.
Also read this:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/viewtopic.php?t=4992
Ok thanks!
[IMAGE_00315.jpg noframe]
Saying the camera's no good is just nonsense. Anybody with doubts click on the link, please.
As for the camera: I would say the quality is the same/similar to the JAM, and not terrible/great, (though that is a good shot!) You usually get a lot of blur from both devices using them in real-life. Almost everyone has a better digital camera, so what I was saying is that it’s not really a reason in comparison to the JAM to upgrade, (ie a much better camera).
You technically are re-enocding when you did the Pocket Divx Encoder. If you download and play a divx off the net that was meant for the computer, (like a 800meg size one) you will find the prophet isn't up to par to play it smoothly. I fully agree a re-encode of a DVD for example can be made to play fine.
If I run TCPMP in benchmark on the same video the Prophet overclocked to 230 gets 230Mbit on video, the JAM overclocked to 585 gets 487mbit, the JAM definitely can dish-it-out more.
Remember I have both devices so I do lots of side by side comparisons, and don’t really have a bias, the Prophet is a good pda! But if you already have a Jam it’s not worth upgrading, (well in my option, save the money for the next device that will be much better).
Does anyone know of a 640x480 JAM sized phone that maybe I don’t know about, (no Exec please)?
James,
Did you forgot to change the focus on the lens ( don't know what it called ). IMHO, the quality is just fine, much better than 1.3 camera. See attached images, one is taken with close focus, another in normal forcus and in room light.
Thang
Its the macro switch for close up. Actually those pictures kinda demontrate what I was saying which is the blur affect. You can see it by the persons head, and in the bottom right corner of the macro picture.
Anyways, we are a little off the topic. I was just saying, comparing the two devices it was really not a big difference, not a reason to upgrade
Ok, we established that EDGE, WiFi and better (even if slightly) camera are not worth the upgrade.
What about memory then?
I admit I don't have a JAM but according to specs it has 64MB RAM, which for WM2003 is split for both storage and program.
Now I know you can install most apps on a storage card, but what about contacts, calendar and the rest of outlook? Not to mention any plugins, utilities and apps you want to use with contents from different storage cards, like TCPMP?
Just how much 'program' memory do you have left in the end, and how much does windows try to reserve for storage even if not needed?
As you can see from my sig, I have a iPaq 1710 which runs WM2003, and I came to despise the slider. What is the point of letting the user change memory allocation if the OS changes it right back.
Thankfully, tweakradje posted a fix for that.
Those naughty MS programmers, NeverDorkMemory he, he :lol:
Ok, first I'm going to apologies to Jed D`Lagged cause we have derailed his original article, but I have to reply to this because of the sheer irony.
Prior to getting my Prophet, a friend of mine, also with a Prophet made the exact same argument. To which I made him a small bet, (figuring I would actually lose). I bet him that I could get a full installed JAM with more free program memory then a similar installed Prophet. Cause even though the Prophet has 64RAM you seem to only get access to much less, something like 42 of it on a bone clean install.
Using BigStorage, and NeverDorkMemory set to limit Storage to 4 Megs (the pre-agreed on number), I installed all the base apps needed to BigStorage, things like Wisbar, 1 Theme, SpriteBackup, Resco, PHM, all the usual suspects. In the end, (sorry I forget the exact number), the JAM had 8 megs more Program Memory then the Prophet... and I know it sounds hard to believe, we were pretty surprised ourselves... the only theory is that maybe WM5 uses a lot of RAM while running the OS??
Now someone will immediately say, ‘but didn't you make the device slow by having all 3rd party apps loading off slow storage’. Yes, I did, but the device was still faster then the Jamin. Once a program loads on either the JAM or JAMIN it runs from RAM and will run at 230Mhz as opposed to 585Mhz which is a noticeable difference.
On one final note, I think people are thinking I'm knocking the Prophet, I'm not, hell I have one, (not for long though), but it’s a good device. Again, I'm just telling Jed, (for what I think are pretty solid reasons) its not worth upgrading...
I've observed the same outcome between the Prophet and Magician. However, if you don't overclock and don't use the Bigstorage hack on the Magician, the RAM amount and speed differences are not nearly as noticeable. In other words, if you don't know how to hack and tweak your phones the differences are not as obvious. I suppose that most people fall into this category, the members from this forum excluded of course
Just bumping my own thread to say that I had started to look at picking up the Prophet for the extra ram because having two Japanese dictionaries, Excel, Word and TCPMP was chewing up ram causing the machine to go slow while it swapped/"Dorked" the memory.
However, NeverDorkMemory fixed that, now I always have ram free.
Hooray!
Jed D`Lagged said:
I've got a Magician at the moment, and was thinking of upgrading to a Prophet.
Is is worth it? Obviously this question is relative, so if you think so (or why not) then us know why =]
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not if you're looking for a phone that will still receive further ROM updates.
I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for HTC/QTEK/Dopod/i-mate et al to release AKU3 for the Prophet.
Hi BA owners,
I have a chance to buy a BA in excellent condition for a rediculous price. I have checked the specs on it and with the large ram and 400mhz processor, it would seem to me to be an upgrade from my Wizard, which only has a 200mhz processor and 64mb of ram. I am counting on some input from you guys in this forum to steer me in the right direction. Thanks in advance!
Do it
I will be honest with you. It has no comparison with the Wizard. My wife has one and it runs out of resources more often than not. Don't get me wrong though, it is a great pda phone. However, the BA packs a lot of power inside, and as you may have seen it is upgradeable .
I have had mine for almost 3 years now and has been through 2 heavy manufacturing plants. Other than the stylus getting lost 57,000 times, I do not have any complains about it.
Besides, with this kind of support (xda-devs), short of you bricking it, there are very few issues that you might encounter and not be able to fix. I hope my 2 cents will help you make the right decision.
All in all... Just Do It!!!!
it's also a generation or 2 older then wizards
I love my BA. My curiosity was perked when I saw an ad for the Touch so I checked it out at the local store. I was considering buying one, then I found this site, and the wonderful WM6 ROMs. By updating from WM2003 to WM6 I have decided that with the speed of the CPU and the amount of RAM on this that I would be happier with this than a new, smaller, slower unit. Sure it has some quirks, but mine has been through hell. It has been dropped from waist high several times and has loads of dents in the metal body (something the newer ones don't even have as plastic is lighter and more importantly cheaper). I have used a screen protector for the entire 3 years I have owned it so there is no damage there. I am even still happily using the original battery with no problems.
The following is absolutely not an all inclusive list.
Pros:
large screen
fast CPU
large RAM
durable
time tested and proven by thousands of owners
Cons:
device was never intended to be used this long (WM5/WM6)
bluetooth sucks hard (no range)
tiny ROM (32 MB)
cannot use "all" SD cards (SDHC)
new phones are smaller and lighter
I hope this helps.
P.S. I have seen a phone I would replace my BA with if it ever makes it to market. The Pi Phone from deeda.com looks so cool.
Pros:
large screen
fast CPU
large RAM
durable
time tested and proven by thousands of owners
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
a lot of hardware keys (not keyboard)
no CID lock
safe to upgrade (it is difficult to brick)
Cons:
device was never intended to be used this long (WM5/WM6)
bluetooth sucks hard (no range)
tiny ROM (32 MB)
cannot use "all" SD cards (SDHC)
new phones are smaller and lighter
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
no support (only hacked ROMs from xda-developers)
it is easy to damage the case
problems with stylus
slider slacks
keyboard could be better
some permanent problems with non official ROMs (random power on when bluetooth is active)
baniaczek said:
a lot of hardware keys (not keyboard)
no CID lock
safe to upgrade (it is difficult to brick)
no support (only hacked ROMs from xda-developers)
it is easy to damage the case
problems with stylus
slider slacks
keyboard could be better
some permanent problems with non official ROMs (random power on when bluetooth is active)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree with all these....
just one opinion with the random power on when BT is active, i dont have a problem with it anymore....
if anyone hasnt found out.... use S2U2 from A_C and from settings:
set this parameter:
LOCK WHEN DEVICE WAKES UP: ON
ON BATTERY POWER: POWER OFF in __ -> 5 S - this is the minimum allowed.
What this does is when BA wakes up randomly, S2U2 will run, and after 5 second it turns OFF - i.e. save your battery power and save the BA from accidental button pressing.
For me this is the greatest work around for BT issue and I have my BT ON 24/7
Hope this helps
if anyone hasnt found out.... use S2U2 from A_C and from settings:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But it is only workaround. Error still exists.
Point of interest with the BT power on issue. My experience is that if my BA is sitting on the desk powered off with BT on it stays off, but if I pick it up and walk around the "office" it wakes up. I believe it is waking up upon discovering another device. I have not proven this to my satisfaction as of yet, but so far all of my random tests seem to concur. Not that this provides any useable solution as of yet, it is just my observations being put into print.
baniaczek said:
But it is only workaround. Error still exists.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes dude, thats what I have written up there... a wokaround, nevertheless, the greatest workaround I could come up with...
with this, the battery would last as long as if BT is off since when it turns on, it only last for 5 sec before it turns off again...
For me, this problem becomes non-existent now... thats all i am trying to pass on
Btw, Baniaczek, how come you dont release anymore BA roms? I would definitely give it a try if you ever release one again
OT!!
Hi baniaczek. Great to have you back!
I am now running a Kaiser, before that a Hermes, before that a Wizard. So I've used them all. I currently use my Kaiser for business, but at home I use my BA. The BA screen is bigger and it works very well. I'm running Helmi's WM6 and his using his Broadcom BT Stack. I'm also using Radio ROM 1.15.
The Wizard is a better phone. If I were you I'd buy a Hermes or Wizard. They are better phones.
The BA is great as a secondary or backup device. I keep it to browse the web at home using WiFi. The larger screen is very nice. I just got it set up to watch YouTube videos. It's great using WiFi but it only has GPRS for web browsing using your wireless carrier. The Wizard has Edge which is much better.
If I had limited funds and didn't want a contract, I'd buy a Hermes (TyTN) on ebay new for about $350.00. Even if you're on an Edge network (I.e, no UMTS or HSDPA), the Hermes runs better than the Wizard because of the Hermes 400 Mhz processor. I use Pandora's Naked ROM and added just the apps. I want. It works very fast. My wife is now using it.
Hope this helps.
joseph.sapri said:
Btw, Baniaczek, how come you dont release anymore BA roms? I would definitely give it a try if you ever release one again
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah... I still remembered ur .NET CF2 in WM5 ROM was great! I used it until the release of WM6.
Any plan to cook a tweaked WM6 ROM?
Anth
Nice to read those words. I'm finishing two large projects (non PDA at all), and probably will be back.
Thanks
Thank you all for your replies. I think after reading these posts, I'll stick with the wizard for awhile longer. I would like the larger storage and faster processor, but from what I've read here and reading through many of the BA threads, I think the wizard, with its obvious limitations, is a more stable device, especially running wm6. Maybe I'm wrong, if so, tell me more.
kcguy said:
Thank you all for your replies. I think after reading these posts, I'll stick with the wizard for awhile longer. I would like the larger storage and faster processor, but from what I've read here and reading through many of the BA threads, I think the wizard, with its obvious limitations, is a more stable device, especially running wm6. Maybe I'm wrong, if so, tell me more.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What was the price you were getting the BA for and can I buy it?
Friend of mine has a wizard that crashes more often then my BA >.> gues its the way you handle the device.. once you tweaked it out the BA solid.
Only thing left on my wishlist currently is new battery(2400mah) and a gps unit.. and both are shipped and should arrive shortly
I have a uni and a ba. The uni has better keyboard, sharper screen and faster processor. But how the gurus were able to pack the wm6 rom into the 32mb rom and still leave me with 50mb of storage and 109mb of program memory is simply wondrous. The result is that I am able to handle a lot more on the ba than the uni and it is really very stable.
Changed my mind
OK, after much apprehension about this, mainly because I thought the phone might be hot, I went ahead and bought the Blue Angel, new, in the box, never been used. I won't tell what I paid for it, because you wouldn't believe it. Apparently this friend of a friend happened onto 3 new phones at an auction somewhere and now has sold all three. Now, since I'll have the phone in a couple of days, I need you guys to point me to the best wm6 rom for this phone, if you wouldn't mind. I'm anxious to see what it's like to have some processing power and enough memory to actually have more than 1 or 2 programs running at the same time, with (hopefully) no hangs. Thanks for your attention guys! BTW the specs on this one says it has 64mb flash rom, but on your posts, I've only seen 32mb. Is this true?
it's 32mb for the flash rom only, hence space for the the OS Rom.
that's what makes our BA lean and mean. the excess are discarded to be jampacked into that 32mb muscle.
it's bigger actually when you have booted it up to install some applications.
try and familiarize yourself to your new pal BA by the wiki
check out xplode's latest rom. there's a sticky thread in this forum. most recommended.
regards
Rudegar said:
it's also a generation or 2 older then wizards
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
do not be kid, lol.
omap? samsung? htc?
pure xscaler power - that's pda essence, not smartphonelike **** with touch moronism.
and stop killing pda's htc/iphone fans.