Related
Yep, I'm seriously thinking of selling my JAM on Ebay now so I can still get close to what I paid for it. I have spent far too long messing with this device to get it to do what it's suppossed to do. And I've spent far too much money purchasing software that should have been included with the JAM in the first place. (even the bloody 6315 came with a battery monitor)
I also think that this is not a problem with simply the Imate JAM.... it's a problem with all MS based PPC's. I'm more pissed off with the fact that Imate cannot provide adequate customer support for their devices. I think that similar to my 6315 (Which sucks as well) that there is not going to be a forthcoming patch or ROM that is actually going to make everything work. 1.3 mega pixel camera, my ***! The camera on the JAM can't take a decent picture to save it's life. The GPRS on the new ROM is useless. And in general, the JAM device is too quiet, unstable, and is made by a company who doesn't give a toss about its customers or it's products. (They don't even read their own forums to help out their customers).
I, like a lot of people, recently signed up for hosted MS exchange server to get push e-mail on the JAM. Well, it's nice when the GPRS works. What the hell is the point of having Push e-mail if the phone has to be reset to get a connection?
Am I going crazy here? I just want a device that is and does what it's meant to! -That's why it's so annoying, I can watch StarWars on my phone, but I can't check my e-mail or correctly type in a PIN code without errors......now that's ****ed up!!
I'm sure that there are people out there who are expriencing an amazing relationship with their PPC's -But am I wrong in thinking that we're all getting screwed by devices that are inherently flawed? If I bought a car, stereo, or TV that had this many problems I would have taken it back on the first day. Are we all being too accepting of our BETA projects. I'm getting tired of being the guinnee pig for these phone manufacturers who try to put their product on the market as fast as they can without fully testing them and then fail to provide adequate support for the fools who purchased them.
In my case, the JAM definitely meets my expectations and also exceeds them in many ways. To start with, it's been running stable since I installed the Qtek ROM ver 1.11 a couple of months ago. It never hangs and rarely requires a soft reset. I sometimes soft reset just to clear some memory.
It's a full featured PDA in the size of a mobile phone, which is exactly what I was after. The quality of the camera may not be that good, but 1.3 Megapixel is about the size of the picture not the quality. I had a Sony Ericsson P900 before the JAM and the quality of the camera was much worse.
From the software side of things, there's a lot of FREEWARE software available, including battetry monitors. The software available for the competition (i.e. Symbian), is far more limited!
In my opinion, the JAM was a good buy and as yet I don't think there's a replacement for it (convergence devices in a reasonable size!). I used to change my mobile phone every 4 to 6 months. But this time, I think I'll only replace the JAM with JAM2
Basically, you're right. I wouldn't sell the device though, because it delivers the most features from all mobile phones. You can have decent navigation, great games (TombRaider etc.), watch music, have a good music player and great other applications. It's like a PC and it's basically what i expected: You can watch movies but it doesn't ring reliably every morning. My PC does the same stuff, the same kind of problem - it's not mobile phone - just a small PC with a phone application.
I assure you that you won't find a phone with that amount of features that currently runs more stable than MS Phone Edition device. If you want stability - choose one of the old Nokias. They are stable, reliable, good phones - and extremely boring. If you want all features in your pocket - take the Magician. There just is no device with the best of both worlds! Get used to it.
By the way - the full featured (and not upgradeable) phones sold today are even worse with regards to their reliability and stability.
IMO hp dropped the ball with their h63xx, wanting to have the device out asap caused alot of troubles and angry customers.
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Used to have the GPRS problem (Qtek 1.11WWE ROM) it's now gone (using i-mate 1.11WWE). The camera is still lousy (way worse than the Nokia's 1.3MP cameras) I think this is a hardware issue also (maybe they used cheaper sensors on it?).
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as for i-mate's support it is one of the worst I've had the displeasure of going thru (or not going thru for that matter). I'm very thankful for communites that really fill the gap (i.e. this one!!!)
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I'm happy with my JAM been using a PPC for almost 3 years I've accepted it's short comings as well as it's value... remember the i-mate JAM is a PocketPC first and a phone second. Sure there is alot of room for improvement in the platform especially the UI (it could be simpler and more one-handed friendly; MS says WM5.0 will address this but I think we'd have to wait for 6.0 or 7.0 to really have a refined OS). maybe it is time for you to explore another communication device. maybe a symbian s60 device which is a decent smartphone (used to own a Nokia 7610 and it was a pretty decent phone). i understand ur frustration and the best way to show it is with ur wallet. i'm sure you won't be buying an i-mate next time... hope u find a device that will suite ur needs. goodluck!
After The Upgrade
After the upgrade the camera is less grainy in flourescent situations, but more clear and sharp on outdoor shoots. I'm not going to sell this baby, looks are superb and hardware response is excellent just keep in mind to get a ultra fast SD card like what I did with my Sd which is a Kingston 512MB no delays no hangs and no need to soft reset.
I want to know wich one you think is better htc prophet or o2 Atom!
imho;
speed, size = atom (though ive never used one)
batterylife = prophet
im pleased with the jamin but its just too slow.
The Prophet and the Atom both have absolutely the same battery life. In a recent benchmark that was done my Mobile01, it was shown that the Atom actually had a longer battery life (by 4 minutes) than the Prophet.
You can check their review here:
http://mobile01.com/newsdetail.php?id=2471
Speed-wise the JAMin IS SLOW. The Atom on the other hand is much faster especially after the latest ROM Upgrade.
The JAMin however has a really good camera. Its one of the best i have seen in its class.
THANKS ,I think I made up my mind I am going for the O2 atom but I have to find out were to get it first Its hard to get hold of!
universaldoc said:
Speed-wise the JAMin IS SLOW. The Atom on the other hand is much faster especially after the latest ROM Upgrade.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I was under the impression that the Prophet is fast and the Atom slow.
Atom is nearly there
Having owned an Atom for three weeks, I have to say it is certainly the best PDA/Phone I have used. Initially I was horrified at its performance (or lack thereof!), but the second ROM update has finally got it to where it should have been. It is certainly faster than my XDAII, XDAIIs and is up there with XDAIIi. It is also very stable, running more than a week without needing soft reset. I use Battery Pack Pro as a PPC management utility (known to slow down systems) without any real speed issues, and have it loaded up with a number of apps inc Cash Organizer, Collins Eng-French dictionary, Personal Vehicle manager, 1-Calc, and Illium e-wallet. They all work fine with WM5. I intend to load either Destinator or Navman once they get WM5 versions out. Co-Pilot already works with WM5 so I might use that if nothing happens soon.
Windows media chews vast amounts of memory, and everything slows when it is running. On the other hand, the A2DP works very well with my HP BT Headphones, inc track forward/back.
Two disappointments though. No BT Voice dialling, which I would have thought to be mandatory with a Handsfree Profile (the Exec has it!), and the Camera. The Camera is better than it was with the earlier ROMS, raising its performance to at least "crap" level, but it really a waste of time. It is slow to open, often crashes the system, is very slow to respond to a button press (lots of pictures of my feet as the shutter triggers up to 3 seconds after the shutter noise), and the white balance is all wrong, lots of red "flaring" and a blue tinge to the dark areas.
However, I didn't buy the system expecting to ever use the camera so that doesn't worry me. Photos from the Prophet seem much better so if a camera is important to you, give the Atom a miss.
Apart from the Voice Dialling issue therefore I think it is just about perfect. Its as small as many straight phones, has a reliable Bluetooth with decent range (unlike the terrible IIs with its 3 foot max range), has a robust Radio Stack (with reception as good as my Nokia 6230i, Atom has no external aerial connection although that never seems to make any difference anyway), a clear screen and very good stereo speakers.
A pair of hardware buttons to complement the WM5 interface would be an improvement, and a stronger battery cover wouldn't go astray.
Overall, I'm pretty happy, which I never was with the other models. It will be interesting to see what Quanta do with a larger form factor. A IIi sized machine with VGA and WM5 would be interesting! Cheers
People sang the Prophet's praises here
http://forum.xda-developers.com/viewtopic.php?t=38148
They gave me the impression that the Prophet is all that plus a bag of chips.
27 said:
People sang the Prophet's praises here
http://forum.xda-developers.com/viewtopic.php?t=38148
They gave me the impression that the Prophet is all that plus a bag of chips.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
if that ,what about the speed and the fm radio and the size?
have a look at this; http://pocketpcdubai.com/i-mate_PPC/jamin/reviewp2.html
what is slow ?
hi,
i have seen a lot of messages saying the htc prophet is slow. i would like to know what slow means for each poster, slow doing what ?
is skype slow, is wmp 10 slow, or is everything slow ? any information of relative stability of the platforms would also be appreciated.
last thing, i have read that he camera on htc prophet is better. ok, but is it really any good for taking pictures, or is it just a gadget.
thanks for all help,
scott
i read both bad and good things about the omap cpu. in theory its meant to be good but in practice sadly its not very good. yes, software isnt optimised for the chip.. but who here wishes to wait for a year or 2 before all software has been updated? and before then, we may have 1ghz pocket pcs :/
i love everything about the prophet over my original jam.. but sadly the cpu choice htc made completely ruins what could have been the ultimate device.
ive tried the eten m600 recently but wasnt happy with a few things and now im unhappy with the prophet im tempted by the o2 atom.. one last chance for me to find the perfect device?
for now, i think i will be going back to my trusty and speedy jam and my exec.
I agree with Camtech - the Atom is a neat device though only with the latest ROMs is the speed acceptable. Earlier ROMS were painfully slow and most stores are now selling Atoms in Australia and doing updates for customers.
There are some reported issues most noticeable the BT needs work - units are reporting a noticeable hiss on BT audio (including A2DP) and a personal favourite, the BT used to work hands free with my BMW but after the latest ROM it doesn't! :roll:
Early adopter pains - the Atom has only been released (AFAIK) in Asia/Oceania.
universaldoc said:
The Prophet and the Atom both have absolutely the same battery life. In a recent benchmark that was done my Mobile01, it was shown that the Atom actually had a longer battery life (by 4 minutes) than the Prophet.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't have an Atom but can speak about the Prophet. I'm running into the 3rd day of usage without a charge and the battery is still 23%! I've taken a good number of calls, recieved a 4MB file over BT, had WiFi switched on for about half an hour and listened to about 2.5 hours of MP3s.
Not bad I think :wink:
I am thinking about getting a Prophet next. The speed issuse is my only concern.
I see that you can increase the clock speed on the Charmer since it's the same CPU I guess it will work on the Prophet. Anyone tried this?
This http://forum.xda-developers.com/viewtopic.php?t=40457 thread says 472MHz! that would do me if it can play DivX 624x352 video at 100% speed.
I have the Jamin (Prophet). And heres the skinny on the "Slowness"
It is slow. And it will be noticeable. But when people compare slowness from a device. We are talking about 1/2 second to a second slower. Thats about it. For normal operation, opening windows, menus, programs, the Atom will be .5-1 second faster. How much is that really? It depends on you. .5-1 second faster is VERY noticeable. But what does mean for your productivity? The Atom will get something done a few seconds faster.
Thats about it, really.
Now when it comes to running something while your doing something else. It may be slow enough to be unuseable aka SKYPE (if you had 1 second lag on a video game, that game is effectively unplayable, etc). But when it comes up usually when your Mp3 is on, your surfing the internet, and you suddenly get a call. Or when your GPS is on and you get a call. You will feel it lag, and it WILL still work. Your just talking about the feeling of "snappiness" etc, but the end result is not much different. The Atom will pick up a call and be in call on maybe the first ring. It will take the third ring maybe for the Prophet to pick up the call. Both while in GPS or something.
Realistically speaking, NONE of that matters. So what if what your device slows down a bit? Even if you miss a call, does that really affect anything, when you can just call the person right back?
So what if basic usage is about 1/2 second slower?
I won't get into the overclocking of the OMAP. Suffice to say, it makes it just as fast as the Atom/Eten when you activate it for specific applications, or keep it overclocked (which would makes all usage very fast).
Now heres the part where NOTHING the atom can do will overcome its inadequacies:
Lack of 850mhz. If you care about using your phone first, then you want reception. If your on Tmobile, congratulations you have no reception in many buildings, basements, rural areas, even suburbs. N/A if your not in the North America.
Crappy Camera. Utterly unuseable camera functionality and picture quality. My Jamin takes DIGICAM quality pictures, saves very fast, and the shutter time is close to 1 second.
Build Quality and Battery life. Whoever quoted that review which showed equal battery life, WRONG. That review has been updated by the editor and the Prophet is estimated to have about 25% MORE battery life. I don't know about you, but the first thing in a device like this you should be worrying about IS Battery life.
As far as I'm concerned, the Atom has NOTHING on the Prophet. With the glossy and reportedly cheap casing, lack of 850, and useless camera. The Prophet is my all in one 4GB Mp3 player, Camera, PDA, and phone. Overclock it when if you really feel you must, and then the Atom loses the one single advantage it ever had.
As a consumer, this was pretty much obvious to me. I wouldn't buy an inferior product. So I bought the Prophet after reading the reviews.
Just finished first 24 hrs with JAMin. Works well in all areas and only slightly slower than my JAM. Was able to use Tom Tom, play MP3 in MortPlayer and take a call. After call both apps kept working.
I was also won over by the build quality of this device over the ATOM and the £100 price difference!!
Melchior said:
Realistically speaking, NONE of that matters. So what if what your device slows down a bit? Even if you miss a call, does that really affect anything, when you can just call the person right back?
So what if basic usage is about 1/2 second slower?
As a consumer, this was pretty much obvious to me. I wouldn't buy an inferior product. So I bought the Prophet after reading the reviews.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Soo.. you wont buy an inferior product, but you bought a phone that sometimes doesnt pick up a call? That's inferior.
I couldn't think of anything more ANNOYING than not seeing/hearing my phone ring, and then 2 hours later realising someone tried to call me about something really important, or even more annoying, hearing it ring and not being able to answer it. If i had to call back every 2nd or 3rd person who called me, my mobile bill would go through the roof.
Ruxton said:
Melchior said:
Realistically speaking, NONE of that matters. So what if what your device slows down a bit? Even if you miss a call, does that really affect anything, when you can just call the person right back?
So what if basic usage is about 1/2 second slower?
As a consumer, this was pretty much obvious to me. I wouldn't buy an inferior product. So I bought the Prophet after reading the reviews.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Soo.. you wont buy an inferior product, but you bought a phone that sometimes doesnt pick up a call? That's inferior.
I couldn't think of anything more ANNOYING than not seeing/hearing my phone ring, and then 2 hours later realising someone tried to call me about something really important, or even more annoying, hearing it ring and not being able to answer it. If i had to call back every 2nd or 3rd person who called me, my mobile bill would go through the roof.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You gotta be kidding me. Missing a call would NEVER happen, unless you are running SKYPE, GPS, Internet Explorer a video in the background. I'm saying the issues at hand aren't even really ISSUES. I'm not saying it actually AFFECTS the device under normal usage. Please READ my ENTIRE post next time instead of taking quotes out of context please.
Wth are you smoking with the phone bill argument? Are you magically getting charged for the missed call or am I missing something?
When people argue about the OMAP's speed and give retarded examples that either never happen or happen ONCE in a blue moon. First of all how many times are you going to be using a GPS (in your car) and receive a call. In such RARE circumstances, the only difference between the Atom and the Prophet is that the Prophet might lag a little more than the Atom. How many times will you be playing a video and suddenly receive a call? For all intents and purposes, the Prophet's processor copes with and WORKS for any sort of realistic multitasking scenario. The Atom's ofcourse works a bit FASTER.
ALL of this MOOT when you overclock. Set your overclocking preferences to when you open your GPS, or load a video file, or using the internet. Guess what, the Atom no longer has ANY advantage if you choose to do this.
Unfortunately for the Atom, you can't overclock OR overcome its lack of 850, much touted but unuseable 2MP camera, and inferior build.
Again, as a consumer, I will be doing my research and buying the best product. I happen to be on Cingular. If you happen to live outside of North America, and you don't care that the device your buying costs about $100 more and is (-) Camera. The Atom IS better for you. In the US, you either go Verizon for the best reception, or you can go Cingular for great reception and more choice in GSM phones. If your on T-Mobile, God won't even help you on your reception. I speak from experience when moving from T-Mobile to Cingular, it was like Night and Day in most areas.
I'm not defending the Prophet because I bought it. I can easily sell it IF there was a better device. I bought a Wizard 2 WEEKs ago, and that didn't fit my taste at all, so I promptly sold it. I'm trying to let people understand that depending on your user habit, location, and NEEDS of a device, the Prophet or Atom may be more suitable.
AS it boils down in comparison
The ONLY thing the Atom has: Speed
The Prophet has: Camera, SD card, Reception, and Build Quality.
Overclock, and the Atom has absolutely NO advantage.
If you don't wish to overclock, dont need the camera, don't mind the mini SD, don't need the 850mhz, and prefer the shiny black finish, the Atom IS a better device for you.
For most of us (especially in the US), the Prophet's features and versatility far outweigh its slightly slower operation. Overall, I think most people would agree that the Prophet is a better device than the Atom. I would much prefer my cheaper 4gb Mp3 player, 2MP Camera, Phone, Internet and PDA all in one over a 2gb Mp3 player, inferior reception phone, and slightly faster internet and pda functionality.
I NEVER missed any call no matter how many applications I have open. The OMAP has a dedicated code for phone related applications so no matter how many apps you have open, the phone is always responsive.
I sometimes missed calls on the magician when I had many apps open. Phone app responsivness on the Prophet is better than the Magician's!!
Melchior said:
It is slow. And it will be noticeable. But when people compare slowness from a device. We are talking about 1/2 second to a second slower. Thats about it. For normal operation, opening windows, menus, programs, the Atom will be .5-1 second faster. How much is that really? It depends on you. .5-1 second faster is VERY noticeable. But what does mean for your productivity? The Atom will get something done a few seconds faster.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Translation - one of these items will be annoying compared to what you are used to - the other would not. Let's put it this way, I wouldn't go out and buy a PC that was slower than my previous one, let alone for more money.
Melchior said:
The Atom will pick up a call and be in call on maybe the first ring. It will take the third ring maybe for the Prophet to pick up the call. Both while in GPS or something.
Realistically speaking, NONE of that matters. So what if what your device slows down a bit? Even if you miss a call, does that really affect anything, when you can just call the person right back?.
...Unfortunately for the Atom, you can't overclock OR overcome its lack of 850, much touted but unuseable 2MP camera, and inferior build....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Depends on if you think you spent your money on a phone - or a toy. And judging by your fixtion on the camera ( the camera in all these phones are a joke frankly). I'd have to wonder.
I'm much more interested in buying phone from someone that makes the phone part work well, before they go spending effort on a toy camera. Talk about a messed up sense of priorities...
Build quality remains to be seen - proven only by long term usage.
There is not point in touting a device beyond its weaknesses. The Prophet/Jamin may be fine for some. But its sheer folly to go around pretending that its weaknesses would not affect anybody or that 850mhz is an issue that affects most of the world - it doesn't. Many people dont give a fig about 850. We don't live in US or Canada.
skagen said:
Let's put it this way, I wouldn't go out and buy a PC that was slower than my previous one, let alone for more money.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But then I also wouldn't get a new PC that only had half the storage of my old one. I have a 4GB card in my Magican that I will have to throw away with the Atom.
My contract is up in July if nothing else comes out before then with:-
* Full size SD / SDIO
* Wifi
* 400+MHz
* WM2005
* 2MP+ Camera (ideally with autofocus & optical zoom)
* Same form factor as my Magician
* USB2
* USB Host
* D3D hardware
* VGA (ok now I'm dreaming)
* Built in GPS (the new sort that work indoors)
Then I guess I'll have to go for the Prophet due to the investment in my memory card.
Maybe I can just set the clock speed to 400Mhz permanently and live with shorter battery life......
Isn't that weird that there is still nothing better on the market than Exec?
And nothing is even announced to come!
Or maybe I missed a news about a PDA/Phone with better specs than Exec.
I love gadgets and am a bit confused when I have nothing to wait for :wink: .
And I'm going to Japan and Hong Kong in a month and was thinking to buy something there.
rottie said:
Isn't that weird that there is still nothing better on the market than Exec?
And nothing is even announced to come!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't mind - I've got until December before I change my Exec - so glad I took out a 1 year contract rather than an 18month one.
Keep a look out for the SE p990i..... should interesting :roll:
BR
agent003 said:
Keep a look out for the SE p990i..... should interesting :roll:
BR
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Impressive specs, but the tiny keyboard isstoo small. Should sell well enough though - Wifi and 3G? Damn nice. Might face some competition from the XDA IQ (Orion).
The non-flush keyboard flap is awful too. http://gsmarena.com/sony_ericsson_p990-pictures-1318.php
Nice looking from the camera facing side though!
And that plastic thingy supposed to be better than my Exec? :lol:
rottie said:
And that plastic thingy supposed to be better than my Exec? :lol:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i'll second that
I sometimes wonder if they are so shunted for creativity & innovation! The same old crap revamped over and over again, and people still keep buying it! Unbelievable!!!
The OS is so lame, it makes me wonder how people can even use it! The applications you get for the SEs are so "compromised" and pathetic, that i really wouldnt even dream of having one of those in my gadget kitty!
again, my honest opinion....no flame war intended, but i would enjoy a breakout nonetheless
Cheers,
San
I have ordered my P990, its a phone PDA not a PDA phone. Looking forward to having a reasonable amount of user memory (>64Mb) and great MP3 playback and photos. Also I suspect I'll get two days life from the battery unlike....Also I don't expect to need to reset it every two days...Its amazing what the naff OS from Symbian can do (e.g. real-time processing)
Edit: also looking forward to having caller ID on my JabraBT800 and stereo BT playback
jah said:
I have ordered my P990, its a phone PDA not a PDA phone. Looking forward to having a reasonable amount of user memory (>64Mb) and great MP3 playback and photos. Also I suspect I'll get two days life from the battery unlike....Also I don't expect to need to reset it every two days...Its amazing what the naff OS from Symbian can do (e.g. real-time processing)
Edit: also looking forward to having caller ID on my JabraBT800 and stereo BT playback
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am going to take a serious look at the P990. I had a P800 which I didn't like much (it promised far more than it delivered), but the P990 seems leaps and bounds ahead. I then moved on to a Treo which was OK but underpowered both hardware and OS-wise. I then got a JAM and now an O2 Exec - but don't think much of Windows at all - although I couldn't survive without TomTom! I don't think any PDA has come anywhere near the quality of the Psion 5. What went wrong...?
"Looking forward to having a reasonable amount of user memory"
I've a bucket load of stuff on my XDA, never ran out of memory. Ever.
"and great MP3 playback"
Hey, me too!
"and photos."
Check. 640x480 pics look glorious. What res you running in, and on what size screen?
"Also I suspect I'll get two days life from the battery"
I get a day, but I charge every evening, so it's not a problem.
"Also I don't expect to need to reset it every two days"
Windows Mobile 5.0 is reliable. Obviously Beta software etc occasionally needs a reset, but in practice, the thing is reliable.
"Its amazing what the naff OS from Symbian can do (e.g. real-time processing)"
Sorry, what? My XDA doesn't process in real time? Really? How does it multitask?
"also looking forward to having caller ID on my JabraBT800"
Caller I'D works well through my headset via Voice Command, no need to take the headset off to look at the number.
"and stereo BT playback"
Hey, me too!
@Belfast Bikes, real-time processing means Symbian does everying there no need for two OSs unlike WM5 devices. I was trying to point out that the P990 is more a phone then PDA; some people need a rock solid phone over a PDA. On memory, I do need to reset because of low RAM and I prefer to install my apps on the main memory as I do when I use all my other devices. The Universal's 27MB user memory is very low for a USD1000 device in 2006!
@page3, totally agree about the Psion 5 - fast, easy to use and rock solid (I think I had to reset my 5MX about twice in 12 months). The Psion 5 design is from 1997! Here we are 9 years later and we have to suffer slow devices that are unreliable!
jah said:
@Belfast Bikes, real-time processing means Symbian does everying there no need for two OSs unlike WM5 devices.
On memory, I do need to reset because of low RAM and I prefer to install my apps on the main memory as I do when I use all my other devices.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've never reset due to low memory,ever. I use gspocketmagic to actually close the apps I don't need, perhaps that helps?
As for needing two operating systems, I have no idea what you're talking about.
@Belfast Biker
re: Real-time OS
Look at these links:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/02/13/microsoft_single_core_phone_os/
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/12/30/singlechip_rtos_phones/
All *current* PocketPC/WM phones require two OSes. One runs the phone radio and the other runs the rest of the PDA. They have to be working together in order to give you a usable device. Once these are integrated in a RTOS, we should be able to do more with less. This should result in more efficiency, less weight and smaller motherboards. Technically, it should also reduce the price, although that, of course, will likely never happen!
SE990 UIQ ...
Hi folks,
I own a SE P910 as well. It is pretty similar to the 990 apart from WiFi and 3G and the screen size - the 910s screen is larger ;-)
Well, compared to PPC/Phone Ed these show a different attitude.
PPC/PE are sort of PPC with the possibility to call and the SE 9XX are phones with a PDA.
Compared to my Universal the 910 definately is NOT slow once apps are loaded and you can leave a whole lot running berfore you'll notice any slow-down. I have several apps on that thingy and I have to admit there definately is light and shade - just as everywhere, in the PPC world as well.
Concerning the keyboard you are right - this is tiny with the 9xx but text recognition (scribbling on the screen similar to Transcriber) is more accurate by far.
Phone operation (there are some people left that really use their phones to phone ;-) ) is a whole lot better: quality of sound, scroll through options by a 5-way wheel switch, options in general are better and usable compared to PPCs.
And something striking is that these devices don't have a Reset-switch - they really don't need it ....
It just depends on what you want so please don't damn a device just because it is different
Have fun!
Andreas
I've got a Magician at the moment, and was thinking of upgrading to a Prophet.
Is is worth it? Obviously this question is relative, so if you think so (or why not) then us know why =]
I have updated myself from Magician to Prophet and would say it is worth it. Windows mobile 5 with its new soft keys is so much easy to use than WM2003. I would upgrade for that reason alone.
Besides, the slower process (in MHz) is not really a difference. The overall performance of the device is on par with Magician.
Moreover, WiFi and EDGE and additional benifits if you make use of it.
On a side note, I like the looks of Prophet better than Magician. It feels more professional than Magician.
I would definitely echo what Itanium2 said. I have also upgraded from the Magician to the Prophet and love it, one handed use is so a lot easier and the softkeys are great.
There are a couple of minor annoyances for me with WM5 over WM2003:
1. Contacts forgets where you are, so if you have scrolled down your contact list, or opened a contact, then say go back to the Today screen, click on the contacts button you are back at the beginning of your contacts list - this is very annoying!
2. Mobile Excel doesn't save your zoom settings. I use Excel quite a bit and WM2003 used to save your zoom settings for each spreadsheet, however now everytime you open a spreadsheet you are at 100% zoom...
Still on the whole, after upgrading to the latest Imate ROM I find the device as stable as the magician was, with a good battery lif. One thing you might like to consider when buying your Prophet is the Imate Jam vs the Orange M600 - the Imate has a much brighter screen (unfortunately I did not find this out until I had brought the M600). Side by side it is really noticeable.
I upgraded my Magician to a Prophet.
Things that made me upgrade.
Wifi (tired of carrying around a wifi SD card)
Brighter screen in daylight
WM5-when power is lost, you still have a working PPC
There are lots of other little things that are better, but for me these were the biggies. Edge is nice of course, but that wasn't a deal breaker since in Europe we avoid data over providers because it is so expensive. If you don't use your Wizard in bright daylight and Wifi isn't important to you on a frequent basis then I think it comes down to money...if you can afford the new toy then why not, otherwise save the 500 dollars for a digital SLR etc.
Do it! I did.
It felt a bit slower to me so I have overclocked it using the tool in this thread: http://forum.xda-developers.com/viewtopic.php?t=55782
It flies along quite nicely now. 8)
TheBrit said:
Do it! I did.
It felt a bit slower to me so I have overclocked it using the tool in this thread: http://forum.xda-developers.com/viewtopic.php?t=55782
It flies along quite nicely now. 8)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I still have my Magician as well the Prophet and I have to say that even with the overclocking utility the Prophet is still very much slower than the Magician. Also the screen on the Prophet although undeniably brighter seems to be less responsive in comparison to the Magician. This last point may be down to my units only and could be affected by the screen scratch protection which are from different makers.
Other than those two points, Prophet beats Magician in every other respect.
Here's my 2 cents.
I have upgraded to the Prophet (JAMin) as well. I have to say that I would never get back to the Magician.
Usability has improved greatly, battery life is amazing, overall speed is definitely acceptable.
Well, I am not able to play any of my videos without overclocking the device (or re-encoding them - no way!), but considering all improvements I have found and loved, I would not really care... Unless a new fast CPU equipped device hits the market, of course !
Ciao.
I have had both a Magician and a Prophet, and there isn't a large enough difference to warrant the upgrade. You should wait! Wait to get a 640x480 display with the same dimensions as the Jam. They already have 2.8 inch 640x480 sceen, it’s just a matter of time for them to stick in it in the form-factor
http://www.engadget.com/2006/07/04/sharps-w-zero3es-ws007sh-winmo-5-pocket-pc-hotness-redef/
Why I use the Jam over the Jamin:
1} The Jamin is WAY slower, people can rationalize all they want with FileCache and OCing, but I run my Magician at 585Mhz and there is no way the Prophet compares to it, they are completely in different leagues… and though people say its really only a problem in watching movies, (which it IS!) you still brutally feel the loss when you are tasking around the device…
2} Though persistent storage is nice, its 1/2 the reason the device is slow. I run a SpriteBackup every night, keeping 8 rollover copies on the card, (4gig card)... worst case I lose a day... If the Prophet becomes unusable, (virus, corrupted registry, from all that writefilecaching)) you lost the device and have to hard reset... everyone should do nightly backups regardless of device, but if you did that, what do you need persistence storage for?
3} Wifi: That is a tough one… if there is one thing I miss its wifi, but you rarely find free-hotspots and if you primarily use it at home, (I do) then get a Bluetooth dongle, they have 300 foot range, which covers the whole house. But if you HAVE to have wifi, consider something like this...
http://www.expansys.com/product.asp?code=121110
4} Camera: the 1.3 and the 2meg are the same in that they are both complete crap.
5} WM5: I am most concerned about this. If MS or others developers make WM5 only apps, then that will become a HUGE problem. But for now it hasn’t happen. And given how many W2003SE there are, its not going to happen for a while.
Final Thoughs: As soon as a JAM-type with a 640x480 display comes along I will toss the JAM but for now, why bother getting a device that has more shortcomings then enhancements.
Thanks for all your replies!
One reason I was worried about upgrading is that I always use my device overclocked - it just seems too slow without. I knew that I couldn't use PHM with the different processor, but it's good to see there's an OMAP overclock util. But it's in beta, and I'm not sure if I could be bothered tinkering with it if somebody already has and says that it's slower anyway.
Flash memory and extended battery life have never been an interest, as I backup weekly (Sprite Backup FTW) and always carry a spare battery.
I have a sandisk 128mb+wifi (hard to find cheaply in Australia), which I'm sure I'll find a use for one day. USB+Card Export = faster regardless.
I never use the camera, mind you, I've seen some shots from the Jamin and they look better.
Also, I'll be moving to Japan in the next year or so, and I didn't really want to spend that much on a device that I'll have to sell later on when I move. Besides, that link James posted looks like it's probably worth waiting and getting a new phone over there.
Ultimately, I was looking for some majorly convincing argument to upgrade. At the moment, it'd only be for the extra two buttons because I've already given AE Button Plus three events for the three buttons I've got. Oh well. Thanks anyway guys.
slvrbllt said:
Well, I am not able to play any of my videos without overclocking the device (or re-encoding them - no way!)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Say what? I've heard this a couple of times now and I can't help but wonder what you people are doing to your devices? My Prophet runs on normal speed and I've never had problems playing my videos! I use Pocket DivX Encoder and if you choose the right setting the video will be crisp and clear and the playback will be smooth like... err... something REALLY smooth!
As I said I've never had any problems with videos so please don't use this to bash the Prophet. You should rather look into what you're doing wrong!
JamesManios said:
4} Camera: the 1.3 and the 2meg are the same in that they are both complete crap.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ha! What? The last time I went on vacation I actually left my digital camera at home since I now have a real good camera in my pocket all the time. The pics are great. If you want to enlargen them to billboard size of course you might want to get some other equipment. I'll attach a picture that I took so you can look at the quality yourself. And no! It is not porn, thank you!
[edit] Oh, nevermind the picture. Is there a way I can attach it for everybody to download without the pic being displayed and completely destryoing the look of the thread?
A) I must agree with Jayxz. Played DivX from Sandisk 512 (old, relatively slow one) with no problem, 29fps and all.
Never had to overclock.
I had a chance to play with Mio 701 which has a faster processor and the only difference in performance I noticed was with the iGO nav software. And that was just a slight improvement.
B) Jayxz: Personally I need no proof of picture quality, but if you want to post it any way, just zip it (better for downloads any way) or change the extension.
Also read this:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/viewtopic.php?t=4992
Ok thanks!
[IMAGE_00315.jpg noframe]
Saying the camera's no good is just nonsense. Anybody with doubts click on the link, please.
As for the camera: I would say the quality is the same/similar to the JAM, and not terrible/great, (though that is a good shot!) You usually get a lot of blur from both devices using them in real-life. Almost everyone has a better digital camera, so what I was saying is that it’s not really a reason in comparison to the JAM to upgrade, (ie a much better camera).
You technically are re-enocding when you did the Pocket Divx Encoder. If you download and play a divx off the net that was meant for the computer, (like a 800meg size one) you will find the prophet isn't up to par to play it smoothly. I fully agree a re-encode of a DVD for example can be made to play fine.
If I run TCPMP in benchmark on the same video the Prophet overclocked to 230 gets 230Mbit on video, the JAM overclocked to 585 gets 487mbit, the JAM definitely can dish-it-out more.
Remember I have both devices so I do lots of side by side comparisons, and don’t really have a bias, the Prophet is a good pda! But if you already have a Jam it’s not worth upgrading, (well in my option, save the money for the next device that will be much better).
Does anyone know of a 640x480 JAM sized phone that maybe I don’t know about, (no Exec please)?
James,
Did you forgot to change the focus on the lens ( don't know what it called ). IMHO, the quality is just fine, much better than 1.3 camera. See attached images, one is taken with close focus, another in normal forcus and in room light.
Thang
Its the macro switch for close up. Actually those pictures kinda demontrate what I was saying which is the blur affect. You can see it by the persons head, and in the bottom right corner of the macro picture.
Anyways, we are a little off the topic. I was just saying, comparing the two devices it was really not a big difference, not a reason to upgrade
Ok, we established that EDGE, WiFi and better (even if slightly) camera are not worth the upgrade.
What about memory then?
I admit I don't have a JAM but according to specs it has 64MB RAM, which for WM2003 is split for both storage and program.
Now I know you can install most apps on a storage card, but what about contacts, calendar and the rest of outlook? Not to mention any plugins, utilities and apps you want to use with contents from different storage cards, like TCPMP?
Just how much 'program' memory do you have left in the end, and how much does windows try to reserve for storage even if not needed?
As you can see from my sig, I have a iPaq 1710 which runs WM2003, and I came to despise the slider. What is the point of letting the user change memory allocation if the OS changes it right back.
Thankfully, tweakradje posted a fix for that.
Those naughty MS programmers, NeverDorkMemory he, he :lol:
Ok, first I'm going to apologies to Jed D`Lagged cause we have derailed his original article, but I have to reply to this because of the sheer irony.
Prior to getting my Prophet, a friend of mine, also with a Prophet made the exact same argument. To which I made him a small bet, (figuring I would actually lose). I bet him that I could get a full installed JAM with more free program memory then a similar installed Prophet. Cause even though the Prophet has 64RAM you seem to only get access to much less, something like 42 of it on a bone clean install.
Using BigStorage, and NeverDorkMemory set to limit Storage to 4 Megs (the pre-agreed on number), I installed all the base apps needed to BigStorage, things like Wisbar, 1 Theme, SpriteBackup, Resco, PHM, all the usual suspects. In the end, (sorry I forget the exact number), the JAM had 8 megs more Program Memory then the Prophet... and I know it sounds hard to believe, we were pretty surprised ourselves... the only theory is that maybe WM5 uses a lot of RAM while running the OS??
Now someone will immediately say, ‘but didn't you make the device slow by having all 3rd party apps loading off slow storage’. Yes, I did, but the device was still faster then the Jamin. Once a program loads on either the JAM or JAMIN it runs from RAM and will run at 230Mhz as opposed to 585Mhz which is a noticeable difference.
On one final note, I think people are thinking I'm knocking the Prophet, I'm not, hell I have one, (not for long though), but it’s a good device. Again, I'm just telling Jed, (for what I think are pretty solid reasons) its not worth upgrading...
I've observed the same outcome between the Prophet and Magician. However, if you don't overclock and don't use the Bigstorage hack on the Magician, the RAM amount and speed differences are not nearly as noticeable. In other words, if you don't know how to hack and tweak your phones the differences are not as obvious. I suppose that most people fall into this category, the members from this forum excluded of course
Just bumping my own thread to say that I had started to look at picking up the Prophet for the extra ram because having two Japanese dictionaries, Excel, Word and TCPMP was chewing up ram causing the machine to go slow while it swapped/"Dorked" the memory.
However, NeverDorkMemory fixed that, now I always have ram free.
Hooray!
Jed D`Lagged said:
I've got a Magician at the moment, and was thinking of upgrading to a Prophet.
Is is worth it? Obviously this question is relative, so if you think so (or why not) then us know why =]
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not if you're looking for a phone that will still receive further ROM updates.
I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for HTC/QTEK/Dopod/i-mate et al to release AKU3 for the Prophet.
Hello. I've been following the Kaiser thread ever since I heard about it, and with the same anxiety of the owners of that phone i've been waiting for the miraculous drivers to appear. I'm looking forward to upgrade from a HP hx2750, to a new pda with phone. After a few research I concluded that the pdas the fit my need are the HTC p3600 (trinity), p3600i (500Mhz processor version) , the Tytn 2 Kaiser or the coming Eten X800 and the I-mate 8502 which in my option is the best off all those but I doubt it will be available sooner than April 2008.
From all those the p3600i and tytn 2 seemed more appealing. So I have to pick between the p3600i (since i'd rather have more ROM and processor speed though paying a bit more) or the kaiser, tytn 2.
I like to play videos, take pictures and once in awhile play a few games, but also have a decent scrolling and browsing speed since I'm used to the hx2750 wm6, BUT, i'm not sure if the drivers will ever be made or work properly... in other words I wouldn't like to have a crippled phone as expensive as that kaiser(not getting contract!). The p3600i looks great is not so buggy but doesn't have keyboard and this is something I always missed in the hx2750. Neither I know if the keyboard in the end is really that useful cause it looks very hard to type in...
I heard better things from htc in past times but now they don't seem to care for consumers opinion, so that's another question. I dunno if it's better to get the kaiser and wait for drivers or get something more solid. I heard new windows 6.1 will come out soon, so might be a help or push to fix problem. I prefer more the kaiser but the p3600i is impressive too...
So i'm here asking for whoever wants to share its opinion... What's the best buy p3600i or tytn2 (kaiser, tilt)?
Is htc giving up the kaiser for real?(no more drivers, no more production of that model? And does the p3600i as any issue too?
P.S:I really refer to the p3600i not the updated p3600(trinity)
Heavy s**t
My penn'orth:
The TyTyn 2 is SOOOOO heavy and bulky. although the 3MP camera is nice, the keyboard is not really that useful as it's fiddly to use and the bulky size and weight for me do not justify the tilt / keyboard.
For it's size I'd say go with the 3600i.
It may be useful in terms of getting responses - to specify which driver issue you are talking about - I'm not sure myself!
I would like to add that you should keep in mind that the P3600i is still relatively new and that if you plan to immediately flash the ROM to your favourite cooked TouchFlo variety you will be unable to do so for a while so you'll have to stick with the original stuff for now. Apart from that I would say that a big part of your decision-making considerations would be the hardware keyboard and how important having one means to you - to be honest I hardly use them. Additionally, I HATE to feel the looseness/play created by the moving parts, and I like a solid phone with only buttons - no flips, slides or twists. Another consideration is battery life - not sure exactly how they compare, but I have a feeling there is not much difference between the two (keeping in mind that the P3600i has a faster processor than the Kaiser). I am not sure how the cameras compare either, but the Kaiser should indeed produce better results, though I will say that the P3600/P3600i's photos are not that bad either. Another factor, presumably, is the cost. I am about to buy a P3600i today and it's running me USD$599 - the TyTN II is USD$750. For me it's the P3600i, but of course, the choice is yours. You have to look at all the differences between the two phones (read as many reviews as you can) and the environment you will be using the phone in and the type of usage you will demand from it to fine-tune and make the best decision for yourself.
I had to make the same decision and ended up with the p3600. For two reasons:
1st: The P3600 comes with almost the same functionality, like wifi, gps, hsdpa/umts and so on - but is cheaper and smaller. Besides that the P3600 has no performanceproblems with applications or videoplayback.
2nd: I dont do any SMS-texting, neither do I write any e-mails from the phone. So the keyboard wasnt too important to me. Since there are some nice programs for fingerfriendly onscreen keyboards, I can type small texts without any difficulty and quite fast.
You definitely get more for your money with the p3600 ... which is useless if you need to write 20 emails a day on your phone ...
The drivers issue I made reference to (Htc tytn 2) problem is the fact it has a video performance worst than earlier models, it's slow and paused when scrolling, can't play games with proper frame rates. This is blamed in the lack video drivers... the tytn 2 or kaiser thread is filled with users seeking a solution to that.
The p3600i is a beautiful device but I don't know till when the 64MB memory will be a issue, and the kaiser offers 128Mb...
I don't really mind not having a cooked rom as long as the new one isn't that bad or buggy. About the touchflo I don't know really what is and how useful is but I suppose is something like finger scrolling... don't think is useful in such small screens... ^^
My hx2750 screen is almost as big as the p3600! I compared them side by side!
Does anyone knows if any htc device will be updated to wm6.1?
Thanks for all opinions...