Database Users

After 1 week of use i decide to sell....

Ok having my mda pro for a week now
i must say its much slower, heavier, thicker, bad reception, windows 2005 still to young for use, browsing isnt that great..
and maybe more.
compared to my mda II
So i am gonna sell it ..
Its on the dutch 2nd hand market www.marktplaats.nl
Maybe ill regret it but, its just to big and slow.
Maybe ill get a qtek 2020i or mda III instead

I'm thinking the same too.
I am now wishing I waited for the K-Jam.
I wanted something with a keyboard, but JJ is just too awkward to use.
One thing I am thinking is maybe get a SP5 to carry around daily, and use the JJ as a laptop alternative when I am going to be out of reach of my laptop for a while (a while for me is more than 4 hours)

i'm happy with it.
1. has umts and i love it for video calls
2. has nice UMTS speed
3. has the full keyboard and a balanced notebook-type position
4. nice features and I can place it on the table on trains and in car
so ... i'll keep it.

I think that those wanting a phone first and a PDA second will be disappointed in the JasJar. Those (like me ) wanting a PDA first and phone second, those who want a mini-laptop, will love the JasJar.

DaleReeck said:
I think that those wanting a phone first and a PDA second will be disappointed in the JasJar. Those (like me ) wanting a PDA first and phone second, those who want a mini-laptop, will love the JasJar.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think that's exactly right. I do sometimes (well... often) wish the Jasjar was a bit smaller and somewhat lighter, but it does everything I ask of it and it does exactly what I bought it for. I'm not getting rid of this device until something that can do all this and more comes along.
Brett

here here! im a pda freak and i love the jj,
just dreaming the future, imagine a jj only difference is the keyboard half is the same thickness as the screen half, now were talking!!!

Well, I think it's fantastic. And it's a lot more stable than my Jam was. I'm using my JasJar far more often and using more functions than I've ever used on a PPC before.
Agreed, there's not a lot of fully compatible software around for it, but honestly, it's a brand new OS and developers are catching up, so that really shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone, should it!?

Wow! Can't believe people are actually selling their Universal's!!! I guess to each his/her own.

i just wished it could be beter in multimedia
i need it for my work, but awsering phone and working in the agenda is 3 times slower then on my mda II

DaleReeck said:
I think that those wanting a phone first and a PDA second will be disappointed in the JasJar. Those (like me ) wanting a PDA first and phone second, those who want a mini-laptop, will love the JasJar.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't want a phone first, but JJ is very awkward to use as a phone.
Although a lot of the problems are because I am carrying it closed. When there is a decent case for it so I can carry it in pda mode, most problems will go away:
- You can't tell who's calling without opening the device, which is a two handed operation. Walking down the street with a bag in one hand you have to stop, put the bag down, take jj out of pocket, open it up to see who's calling, close it back and decide what to do with the call
- You can't call out without opening the device, which is a two handed operation. Walking down the street with a bag in one hand you have to stop, put the bag down, take jj out of pocket, make a call, close it back and continue with the call. Even a BT headset doesn't help, because voice calling doesn't work when jj is closed
- Even as a pda it is awkward to open it to just check something. WM5 is operable with a single hand, but you need two hands to open it. Again, this won't be a problem when there is a decent case that allows us to carry it open.
As I said, I will probably keep the jj and get a phone for daily use.
Or get a K-Jam
Also, having bricked the jj 4 days after I bought it and having to wait for 2 weeks for a rom, while fighting with imate support twice daily took the joy out of it I think.

@akira,
Are you kidding me? JJ is amazing for multimedia. The screen is mind-blowing and with TCPMP its the most amazing little pocket video player around!!!
And regarding the speed of the device, try multi-tasking on the K-JAM and then tell me what you think of the JJ. Besides, it feels a little slow only the first time you open the program, from thereon its smooth sailing. I really feel you need to re-think the whole thing.
@atekant,
Mate, for a person who spent $1000 on a device, i figured you would just spend another $70 to get yourself a BT headset that supports caller ID. Who the heck told you that you have to go through all that circus shenanigans just to answer or make a call?!?! Just use a BT headset with Caller ID!!! With BT voice dial, you never have to actually open the device to make a call. I have been using voice dial since long and its simply SUPERB!!!
Well, i agree that the "bricking" of the device was an unpleasant experience. Still, i feel you should hold on to it for a little longer as your reasons are not really valid for selling it!!!
My 0.002.

Can anyone tell me how to change the keys Y and Z on the keyboard?

thats a bummer i thought it would be good.

wishes
I regret being an impulsive buyer, because I might not have bought the Jasjar. That being said, I think the oem HTC let us badly down by thinking for us instead of responding to market demands.
Nowadays people want more storage, more memory, more functionality at a reasonable price, u can see the wish list in the wish-list thread, but at the minimum HTC should have put in 128 MB memory and 256 MB rom, to think that devices like the palm offer 4 GB storage means its not a fantasy.
Also robbing customers of the option for usb hosting is not nice, u dont decide what clients want, if its doable still include it and give them the option not to use it if they dont want to.
I am not talking out of thin air, I used to be involved with consultancies that advise for industry.
I hope the next pda from HTC past the Universal will have learned from clients feeback.
Cheers
Nabil H

@nabil,
What are the things that make you feel you shouldn't have purchased the JJ?

universaldoc said:
With BT voice dial, you never have to actually open the device to make a call. I have been using voice dial since long and its simply SUPERB!!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Please tell me what you did to make BT voice dial work when the device is closed.
All that happens to me (and some others based on various posts) is I hear the voice prompt, but then nothing happens. This is using the voice dialer that comes with the JJ. If the device is open or in pda mode, BT voice dial works as it should.

@atekant,
Well, i didn't have to do anything. I just paired my BT headset with the JJ and recorder a few voice tags. Closed the device, put it into its pouch and fired away BT voice dial! Thats it. It works a treat.
I just need to press the button on the headset which then initiates the VSD program on the device (which i know because i hear the beep on the headset). Once i hear the beep, i just speak out one of the voice tags and it instantly makes the call!!! I am sure that within a month, there will be a WM 5 update for MS Voice command which will make recording voice tags a thing of the past. Can it get any easier???
For your info, i use a SonyEricsson HBH-662 BT headset which supports caller ID and BT 1.2. I can honestly say that i have NO problems whatsoever with it and am one happy camper!!!

atekant said:
DaleReeck said:
I think that those wanting a phone first and a PDA second will be disappointed in the JasJar. Those (like me ) wanting a PDA first and phone second, those who want a mini-laptop, will love the JasJar.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't want a phone first, but JJ is very awkward to use as a phone.
Although a lot of the problems are because I am carrying it closed. When there is a decent case for it so I can carry it in pda mode, most problems will go away:
- You can't tell who's calling without opening the device, which is a two handed operation. Walking down the street with a bag in one hand you have to stop, put the bag down, take jj out of pocket, open it up to see who's calling, close it back and decide what to do with the call
- You can't call out without opening the device, which is a two handed operation. Walking down the street with a bag in one hand you have to stop, put the bag down, take jj out of pocket, make a call, close it back and continue with the call. Even a BT headset doesn't help, because voice calling doesn't work when jj is closed
- Even as a pda it is awkward to open it to just check something. WM5 is operable with a single hand, but you need two hands to open it. Again, this won't be a problem when there is a decent case that allows us to carry it open.
As I said, I will probably keep the jj and get a phone for daily use.
Or get a K-Jam
Also, having bricked the jj 4 days after I bought it and having to wait for 2 weeks for a rom, while fighting with imate support twice daily took the joy out of it I think.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree that a small outer display would have been welcome. But it also shows that how you use a cell phone also determines the JasJar's functionality as a phone. For instance, I never really check the caller ID because I always talk to anyone who calls So for me, that isn't an issue but for you it is.
But to be fair, the JasJar isn't my primary phone either. Not because I couldn't use it as such. It's just that my Samsung I730 on Verizon has better coverage and much faster data than GSM on T-Mobile.

ALmost sold my mda pro now.
For almost same price as i bought it.
I think i will try the mda III, or just stick to my mda II.
Size does matter
I dont like having a bluetooth brain wave device next to my brain.
I dont like wifi, only when really needed

You still haven't explained how you switched the Y and Z key :?

Considering the K-Jam... suggestions ?

I currently have a Jasjar, but I'm finding it too big...
I love all the features, but I want to be able to use it one-handed, throw it in my pocket, etc... the K-Jam seems like a good alternative.
The only things that I'm not liking about the K-Jam are:
- Lower rez screen (but it's smaller than the Jasjar, 3.6" vs. 2.8"... so its still pretty sharp... and I can't really see where I couldn't live without it)
- 2.5" headset jack, and on the bottom... (kinda annoying... but could use an adapter... but still a hassle because I currently plug my MP3 player into my car, my headphones AND speakers at the office, and I'll have to have an adapter sticking out of the bottom of my phone now...)
- Mini-SD card... (SD is much better to go above 2GB, even up to 4GB... and it's not exactly a well known or used format... SD is cheaper, and Memory Stick Pro Duo is coming down in price since the PSP came out... but what can I do)
Also, does it work well for one-handed use ?
Any ex-Treo users who care to comment ?
Any ideas ? Suggestions ?
Thanks !

The wizard is a solid device. Go for it!!
You will love the extra battery life and size. I really could not imagine having a universal clipped to my belt weighing my pants down.
I upgraded from an alpine and I could not be happier.
Higher screen REZ is not needed on a screen that small. The screen is much sharper compared to the alpine.
The OMAP cpu is just enough processing power to run everything out there.
Also, I noiticed you were in Canada so I doubt you were making use of the 3G power of the universal(probably another 5-7 years for Canada). The wizard is EDGE enabled so if you use rogers you will see great data download rates. I was lucky enough to already be signed up with fido and their $50/month unlimited data plan when rogers took over fido so i am paying $50 a month for unlimited EDGE use. I am quite sure FIDO does not offer this plan to new subscibers anymore.
My only compliants with the wizard are:
-HTC needs to make better use of the device by increasing screen size without increasing the size of the device.(all HTC devices)
-The stylus hole is a joke. My stylus hole wore out within 1 week and now my stylus slides out of the hole very easily. Soon it will probably be falling out. Didn't they bother testing this at all???
-no GPS.

hey audible,
thanks for the reply !
I am with fido / rogers as well and I signed up for the unlimited plan as well... are you in Montreal ? and where did you order your K-Jam ?
so yeah I'd be good using the EDGE support... I often use my p800 as a bluetooth modem with my laptop.
a few questions:
- that sounds bad about the stylus... is there a solution ?
- have you experienced any issues multi-tasking with the OMAP ?
- have you ever tried a VGA screen on a pda to compare ?
- how's the k-jams one handed use ? have you ever tried a treo for one handed use in comparison ?
- did you remap the explorer and mail buttons to something more useful ? like windows and OK ?
- does the 2.5" jack bother you ? do you use an adapter ?
- does the keyboard slide mechanism feel solid ? I'm worried now after what you said about the stylus...
thanks and look forward to your reply !
Posted from a Universal !

- that sounds bad about the stylus... is there a solution ?
I haven't had any probs with my stylus yet, except it may be a little looser than when I got it.
- have you experienced any issues multi-tasking with the OMAP ?
Nope, I can have several apps open at once (eg. Calender, Notes, Email, MSN, IE x 2 (using PPCPlus), TCPMP playing MP3) and its fine.
- have you ever tried a VGA screen on a pda to compare ?
It resembles the crispness of VGA screen because of its smaller size, but in no way matches the res.
- how's the k-jams one handed use ? have you ever tried a treo for one handed use in comparison ?
Haven't tried a treo, but WM5 is great for one handed use. I can do most things without the stylus. The Win and Ok keys on the keyboard make it even easier.
- did you remap the explorer and mail buttons to something more useful ? like windows and OK ?
You can, but I find their defaults good.
- does the 2.5" jack bother you ? do you use an adapter ?
I rarely use it, but yes when I do I use an adaptor.
- does the keyboard slide mechanism feel solid ? I'm worried now after what you said about the stylus...
I am happy with the slider. It seems pretty solid, and the screen definately feels like it will stay up when it is up.

Hey mitchello,
thanks for your feedback !
Audible:
Any comments ?

Wizard (imate K-JAM) is awesome!
Moving from a Blue Angel to the wizrd has so far been very pleasing. The smaller screen has been a little daunting, especially trying to use the "finger" stylus, but beyond that I highly recommend it.
Stability and features in WM5 are nice, and should not be discounted.
I'm on T-Mobile in the US, and EDGE is great at around 150kbs, compared to 30kbs via GPRS.

i upgraded from my IMATE PPC and i love the K-JAM , it is a little slow , but the battery is great.. i love the deviced , once you get used to it and all features you will love it..
i used adapter to play MP3 in my car and it work great...
good luck

i upgraded from my IMATE PPC and i love the K-JAM , it is a little slow , but the battery is great.. i love the deviced , once you get used to it and all features you will love it..
i used adapter to play MP3 in my car and it work great...
good luck

Hey rah,
thanks for the comments !
Good to hear someone else who uses it to play tunes in the car.
What about one-handed use ? Do you feel you have to do finger aerobics to do certain things, like open the start menu ?
I've heard of people mapping the Send Call button to the Start menu in the Today screen...
I'm wondering if I could map Send and End to Start and OK in every screen except for the Phone screen ?
Any comments ?

Serious Post! Should i keep my JasJar or Sell it ?!?!

Okay guys, this is serious. I'm impressed by my JasJar but i'm not sure it does anything more that i actually need it for than my Imate Jam. As far as I can see there are some good points and some bad points about it and i wouldn't mind some opinons about whether its worth keeping or selling.
Okay my first view on the plus sides:
Screen is excellent quality
Wifi is very fast and much faster than the wifi sd card i have at the moment.
Keyboard is useful combined (but not as big as the fold out one i have for my imate)
Negative Sides:
3g doesn't seem to work in my area so i can't seem to benefit from that
Size is big (i would need a second phone to go out with etc)
Can't see much difference in speed with my level of usage
Pain in the ass to anwser it (imate jam is not a big phone at all)
Software is still a bugger to install etc.
Okay, my mine uses for the jasjar were to be for work. I would be booking appts and keeping track of those appointments and information regarding them on the pda for my work. Although harder to type in, i could in theroy do that on the imate jam. I don't use the wifi alot outside of the home (although it would be useful to use mirc, the web etc while girlfriend is on the pc).
At the moment i'm umming and ahhing because i have to take the phone with me everywhere (actually considering using the jasjar sim free while i'm off work and putting the imate jam back on the road as it were)
REALLY appreciate anyones help to this, its good but i'm not sure if its enough of a step for me to merit not selling it and getting ALOT of money for it (brought as upgrade through o2)
Look forward to the replys
Ian

I'm gonna tell you what I tell other people:
If you don't know what to do with a jasjar then buy the wizard.
The wizard size is as good as big as the jam, has wifi, keyboard and is in those ways much better then the jam.
The reason I need the pro is because I love the vga screen, keyboard and WM5, and I can give support to my customers through logmein.com using 3G.
So sell your jasjar and jam and go buy a wizard.

thanks for the quick response. I'm not sure that I would want a wizard really. I do think that I need to use the exec in a work situation before really considering getting rid of it.
That logmein.com looks rather cool, would like to be able to control my home pc while at work to setup downloads etc. the screen on this is rather special and i'm not against getting a second handset to use for going out etc.
would like to hear anyone elses views if possible.
just to point out to you and myself really i'm lying in bed writing this on the forum with real ease via wifi. hmmmmm another pro to the exec I think!
Ian

thanks for the quick response. I'm not sure that I would want a wizard really. I do think that I need to use the exec in a work situation before really considering getting rid of it.
That logmein.com looks rather cool, would like to be able to control my home pc while at work to setup downloads etc. the screen on this is rather special and i'm not against getting a second handset to use for going out etc.
would like to hear anyone elses views if possible.
just to point out to you and myself really i'm lying in bed writing this on the forum with real ease via wifi. hmmmmm another pro to the exec I think!
Ian

I've tried both, and apologies for readers of this forum, but the Wizard wins hands down. The Universal reminds me of why I ditched the first Ipaqs and went back to Palm years ago. Sure the Pocket PCs had better displays and you could show off playing movie clips, but that novelty soon waned when it was too big to carry and it took ages to lookup a phone number or check your diary.
You've got to weigh up what you _really_ need when you're away from your PC. The whole point to me of having a PDA is that I can access or update my information quickly at all times. The Ipaq seemd to be always at home or in my desk drawer just when I needed it, because it was a pain to carry. Even when I had it, it was sluggish finding the information I needed. The Palms won over because they went with me everywhere, and information retrieval was almost instant.
So, the Universal is a step back to the bad old days - except it's bigger and heavier. Good to show off with but impractical in most situations outside of the work environment because of its bulk.
Don't be fooled by the CPU either. Whatever advantage the Universal has on paper over the Wizard is sapped in real life by the need to update the VGA display. True, the Wizard is no speed merchant (even when compared to a Treo). But I found responsiveness to critical tasks (e.g. starting up Messaging to read/send a text, screen rotation, answering calls) significantly slower on the Universal - and that _really_ starts to annoy when you're in a rush.
So, everything I did with the Universal I can pretty much do on the Wizard, with the big difference that I can take it anywhere. Anyhing else can wait until I'm back at my PC. What's more, I can actually see who's calling and answer a phone call before it drops or diverts to voicemail
And don't forget the resale value. Given the trend of HTC Wizard / Prophet / Atom devices, the longer you hold onto the huge Universal the less saleable it's going to be. Sure, it fills a niche at the moment, but in 12 month's time, is a 1st generation device that big going to have anything but collectors' appeal?
So, unless you only use the Universal in the home and office, the larger keyboard and VGA display are"must haves", and you don't mind missing the odd phone call, then I would say the Wizard was the better bet.
If you really need a VGA display, a keyboard, and top performance, go for a proper PDA like the Dell X51v, a bluetooth keyboard and a seperate cellphone - it'll probably be cheaper, more flexible and easier to carry. And each element will work much better at what it is designed to do.

@Ineedtoys, what a refreshing and objective view on the subject. Having owned a Treo 650 and Clie TH55 I know what you're talking about. In the real world stability, size of device and battery life are still the key requirements and showing your latest toy to friends/work colleagues etc is nice but for most people is not a sufficient reason for buying a device. You either buy a device to meet a personal requirement or buy a device so that you can play with it "like a toy". Decide if you want a real tool or a "toy" first and then you'll be happy with your decision.
My view is that the Universal is not really a cell phone, it is an advanced PDA/mini tablet and you need to use it with another cell phone. The story for the Wizard may be different.

At first I always open the screen and rotated it to see who is calling me, and pick up the phone. Just like my old xda has it's screen outside.
But this take way to long, and most of the time the caller hung up before it was ready to rotate the screen and is able to pick up the call..
Now I just open the lid to see who it is. then close it again and pick up with the side green phone button leaving the pro closed.
If you use it this way i'ts perfect.
At first I had to get used of the size but now I am used to it.
People sometimes think: what the hell is that big thing?
But when I op the "laptop" and rotate it's screen and show the phone it's the coolest thing they've seen .

very interesting reading
Ihave a Universal (o2) for a week now, and am SERIOUSLY thinking of returning it for something else,
I like the Mini s (Wizard) too, but one subject that I believe is left aside is the battery life : with the Universal that I have tested for over a week if I did use the Wifi like 2 hours and a bit of BT and phone, then its battery would be gone by 5pm (starting at 9am !) quite a shame.
My point is : do these devices need to be pluged to the AC anytime we want to use to use the connexions, in that case I can stick with my laptop if need to be wired.
Or is it ony the Universal that is amazingly sucking the battery like no other ?
I appreciate your help as I have to decide if I send it back before friday ! ;-)

Re: very interesting reading
I presume you tried turning the screen brightness and WiFi power right down, and IR beaming off? The Wizard will definately give you longer as it doesn't have the battery sucking screen and has the low power OMAP processor.

The battery life in the Universal seems to get conditioned after a couple of weeks and does improve, but you don't have enough time to wait for that!

already better after 8 days
in fact I have noticed that it is getting better after a week (the battery),
but it's only because I now used the wifi only when I know I have a power nearby and I disable all connexion when I have it in my pocket, same for the brightness etc...
still.. the second point to change it is definately the size : I already have a tablet-pc to play with, so that will do it for now.
Back soon on this forum with the Wizard. :lol:

ill take your universal for my wizard

Athena or Ameo - first few days.

Hi, Great forum people, at least you get the chance to write up your thoughts.
My first Post on this site, and my initail thoughts.
I got an Ameo as an upgrade to my "MDA PRO" from T-Mobile. It looks like a UMPC but not quite there. I second all your thoughts on the device. One thing that is "interesting is the motion sensor" i.e. you can move around the web browsers via tilting the machine, but a bit like my PS3 Motion Sensor Games it gets a bit of getting use to so I tend not to use it.
Another useful thing above the MDA was the little 5 way joypad which is useful if you don't feel pulling out the pen. But this is definitely a Two Hands Device.
I always try and get the most techie gadget from my Tmobile as possible, the odd view I know but I dont actually believe this is a useable phone, so I still use my trusty SONYp900 with rubbish battery.
Although I must admit the MDA pro battery is pretty bad, that I upgraded to a larger and thus more bulkier model.
So Far I have been impressed with the Ameo's battery - life and as others have commented that the usb charging takes longer from Laptop/PC than the official adapter included. But alas I think after using it it will only really last a day at most … so I have to carry a charger with me if at work etc.
One thing I am confused about is that T-Mobile - I never had any Composite out / S-VHS output cable - just a VGA cable, not sure if this is standard or misinformation I did however had VGA out - it would have been nice to show family pics when travelling etc on family TV's at times.
For me this is exactly as you said a Filofax that BT headset would be useful for making calls. I use it to do exactly "work" related diarycalendar and massive contact list, and keep documents hat I am working on within for reference, must get a Blue Tooth keyboard that sounds useful.
Use the MDA PRO keypad was actually quite tactile and useable, this Ameo however is a very ZX80 "showing my age". but that being said I did edit my CV quite easily.
I would like to say when I saw the screen size I was impressed but the resolution is a let down, I think its more to do with WM5 rather than the device I presume but not sure of the Technical on this.
This machine is just screaming to be a LINUX machine with Phone and GPS built in, open office and more etc, utilising the screen size to a better effect. Dunno just a thought.
WM5 is not really eye candy in pink, so this is a let down, if not embarrassing, some peopel out there would slap you if you answered the Ameo in public so BT is useful and Hands free a necessity.
It "could" make a useful recorder for meetings. Also useful that it has a 3MP Camera, I took some shots and all were useful, but the device is slow and tedious and simple camera's are better Although it has stretched the boundaries i.e PDA/Phone etc. (noting the Nokia N95)
One thing is that it requires you to have a very steady hand or need to be leaning against something to take a top quality shot that again needs to be Still, I got tried of asking my 3 year old lad to hold still ;-) and did not even try with my fast crawling 9 month baby boy.
My wife thinks its yet another waste of money, but I explained to her that I never actually bought it, and it allowed me not to have to carry a laptop and the Work PC and this would be sufficient. So If you are after saving your back then great.
I am now actually on the look out for a really simple phone which can sync with outlook and preferably pay as you go.
So - now I don’t have to carry my ipod - music, Sony PSP for MP4, Laptop - general work. If I look at it that way all well and good. It does feel a bit odd that one I do pull it out it feels like the daddy of PDAs or an ARCHOS Media Player. Pity that the Linux thought that the USB sync cable could connect it to a further Hard drive? making it a TV recorder? Dreaming now sorry.
I hear HTC have a 7inch Vista Compatible. I think that Microsoft/HTC need to release WM6 on the AMEO with T-Mobile quickly.
Anyone know how to get rid of the T-Mobile customisation I remember that there use to be hack for the MDA PRO.
Also NO Anti Virus - or is it that I have not even opened or read Manual the CD-ROM may contain it? can someone confirm as I have to hide everything from the kids otherwise it becomes pulp in there mouths.
So far my littles ones have some great hand me downs, whilst I try and justify the Apple TV thing that just came through a month or so late ;-) belated Valentines Gift for my wife ;-), Pity I could not get this thing engraved with my wifes name on it, usually helps with the unwrapping.
Oh boy before I forget, I thought it was just me, but the screen is useless outside. it reflects so much that you cannot see anything outside. this is really annoying try to use the GPS. so the Voice and sound need to be loud. Notably I did have the screen protector supplied stuck on the Ameo. One thing it makes it more UNsensitive i.e. need to prod it firmly when utilising one finger and not the pointer, which surprisingly does stay in it hole, and does not fall out when there is a breeze in the air.
Another good thing is that streaming books is great for the Kids. The Speakers (stereo work well) althought they are very spoilt with Beolabs 8000 and 6000's around the house, amazingly they don't touch those.
With all the usb charges cables about the place and prying childrens hands I am a bit wary of the thing being pulled of table.
The leather case is really good quality leather, and I think although I like to keep everything quite new looking it may look even better with age.
BUT the protection it offers is minimal, i.e. its no ipod rubber skin etc, and the Ameo is no Light Bunny. If it was picked up I in a food fight accidentally then this would hurt ;-). Where am I going with this is that Hard Drive, and I have worked within IBM Engineering Manufacturing “Files/DASD or Hard Drives”. Can it take a bump is going to be found out by my toddlers sooner than later and this scares me a tad, Solid State could not arrive quick enough albeit for in flight parking technologies. Come on Samsung bring those prices down for that 64GB device.
That Magnetic Keyboard is definitely a Trick and credit to HTC nice idea and shows the shielding has been well thought out it reminds me of the shielding in Larger drives and Actuator Arms. One thing I would have like was another case which just allowed the Ameo to be used Palm Like.and a carrying strap should had least been an option, as long as it was not as girly as the PSP one.
Thinking Back PSION and HP and Ericson Pocket PC etc, this is that Nokia Communicator type machine. It nearly all there but not just quite.
Yes I will get an I-Phone engraved for my wife of course,. As I got this on a twelve month Contract. It does allow me to surf the web adequately but jave based websites still struggle with WM5. this is annoying if you use BT Yahoo, and even there non java based site there is issues with some very important icons.
Skype –usage with T-Mobile costs extra on top of web-n-walk so bear that in mind. This is a bit of a farce. But it would be ideal for Skype etc. If any hackers out there sort this out I will be impressed, I suppose T-Mobile monitor the Skpe services PORT?
One other thing I maybe correct about is there is no infra red port, as this would have made the best ever remote control. Although I do have an amazing B&O 7000 and beolink 5000 and standard beolink which all have immensely powerful beams. It would have been nice to add to my collection one that I could programme the non B&O kit with.
Hmmmm could add it to the Kitchen that I am thinking of doing up, drop down timer, internet cookbook, bollywood film streamer ;-) I think my wife may allow for it.
Anyways hope this adds to some of the thoughts others have written.
Speed of use and generally moving about I not totally impressed about although I am use to trading floor compute back bones, you can live with it. Thing that annoys me is the start up time to making a phone call quickly if you had to. One of the reasons for not using it as phone apart from looking like a person ready to be mugged.NFL.
More updates later.

Woah, that's one very helpful impression.
Thank you, please keep more coming.
I'm still with my Dopod 900/Universal, and thinking of upgrading to U1000 due to the speed, battery life, and bigger screen.
I find that my dopod 900 memory often drops below 10mb and this slows down the speed significantly. I do hope with U1000, the speed would improve tremendously. The Dopod 900 Battery life was not enough to keep me up for a whole day either. I do a lot of readings and typings with my PDA on the road, so bigger screen would be a bonus.
Although, U1000 seems heavier and bigger on spec paper, but I find that in my pant's pocket(Hugo Boss Dress pants) I find U1000 to be more comfortable, perhaps due to its thinner design?
The Dopod 900 is a bit thick and pressing against my thigh. So for some reason dopod 900 is less comfortable for me.

akhanaix said:
This machine is just screaming to be a LINUX machine with Phone and GPS built in, open office and more etc, utilising the screen size to a better effect.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Can you help me by running haret on Athena and doing some tests ?
There is already some information gathered here
http://wiki.xda-developers.com/index.php?pagename=AthenaResearch
and many subsystems are already supported.
It is realistic to run Linux off the ramdisk very soon.

jlingo said:
Woah, that's one very helpful impression.
Thank you, please keep more coming.
I'm still with my Dopod 900/Universal, and thinking of upgrading to U1000 due to the speed, battery life, and bigger screen.
I find that my dopod 900 memory often drops below 10mb and this slows down the speed significantly. I do hope with U1000, the speed would improve tremendously. The Dopod 900 Battery life was not enough to keep me up for a whole day either. I do a lot of readings and typings with my PDA on the road, so bigger screen would be a bonus.
Although, U1000 seems heavier and bigger on spec paper, but I find that in my pant's pocket(Hugo Boss Dress pants) I find U1000 to be more comfortable, perhaps due to its thinner design?
The Dopod 900 is a bit thick and pressing against my thigh. So for some reason dopod 900 is less comfortable for me.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, I use 900 before and now with u1000..
Honestly, dont sell ur 900 for the u1000..
I have it both now..
900 have something really good as an alternative..
lighter, an all in one keyboard, a backlight keyboard, a 4 rows keyboard.
For me, both of them have similar battery life.... Both good. u1000 a bit longer if the light set lower (but 20% light is higher than the 900 already)
I use 900 for 1.5 yrs, it is great and still the best in any PDA phone.
Get u1000 for a new fresh good, wider screen, more bright screen, faster speed, GPS, HSDPA. It for sure worth!!!

wonder said:
Well, I use 900 before and now with u1000..
Honestly, dont sell ur 900 for the u1000..
I have it both now..
900 have something really good as an alternative..
lighter, an all in one keyboard, a backlight keyboard, a 4 rows keyboard.
For me, both of them have similar battery life.... Both good. u1000 a bit longer if the light set lower (but 20% light is higher than the 900 already)
I use 900 for 1.5 yrs, it is great and still the best in any PDA phone.
Get u1000 for a new fresh good, wider screen, more bright screen, faster speed, GPS, HSDPA. It for sure worth!!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yes i also agree the keyboard isn't that good in Athena, but hey don't forget, there is a possibility that we can buy extra keyboard that is better then Universal to attach to out Athena in the future.

My Ameo - unlock cost me £15 on T-Mobile
OK ... still playing with My Ameo.
Updates ... I have a Tom Tom 6 installed. - Will report back GPS capabilities soon.
WMStorage - worked 2nd time around but cannot get it working anymore. cant connect to usb driver error etc. Tried the threads but to no avail. - it maybe a TT6 thing.
Noted that after TT6 install the abilitiy to open media player files have become messed up on the web, it like it does not recognise them and I have to "save as" only - anyone know how to solve or experince this?
Not sure if some file associations have gone AWOL.
Definately still too big to Talk into, screen useless still in the SUN, waiting for the right type of sunshine ;-), Probably a good thing that you cannot use it outside when people can see you! ;-). Actualy I have started to use my mda pro a bit more and it actually feels usuable and small and a breath of fresh air scarily I might even use it as a phone now.
Installed ozVGA, amkes its a supperb document viewer - although cannot use the phone pad, but hey I am not making any calls ;-)
Biggest update - I thought I would like to use it as an emergency phone. without having to pull out my SIM card from other phone all the time. Noting I use Wifi most of the time. I thus phoned T-Mobile - got into chatting how I wold like to use the newly bought device abroad for a Month and if I could have it unlocked, the representative said £15 on the next bill, I said darn oh well, plaease put it on my next bill, and proceeded to give the IMEI number over the phone, she said that it would take 28 Days, to deliver to my home address. I said could it be meailed - she said yes, but it still takes 28 days ... checkig and procedures I guess... but I went for the email option hoping it maybe quicker, plus I can chase them without getting into postal issues.
But this now gives me a unlocked phone, pending them saying I should not have been given the ability to have it etc.... I am on flext25 webnwalk (12 month Contaract) but have been with them since the begining. Hopefuly giving me enough time to see iphone in the UK for next purchase.
Next stage, understand what Haret is? and how to get the info requested - earlier in the thread.
About to go down to phones4u and pick up a Motofone for £15, thin and simple.
Noted one really annoying thing, by the vue flow, there is a scratch apperaing from closing the case i.e. the plastic form teh keyboard contacts rubs direct against teh edge of the screen metal, and this is casuing me concern, it could easily dent it. I like to keep everythign like new, plastic, I dont even throw ties away ;-) so this is going to be annoying. its like gettinga dent on the Ferrari after just buying it, touching the screen of the of Bang and Olufsen Beovision 5 or worse a hole within the fret ;-).
regards Aamir.

akhanaix said:
Next stage, understand what Haret is? and how to get the info requested - earlier in the thread.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Haret is "HArdware Reverse Engineering Tool". It's a wince program
with the source code available under GPL,
and you can get the latest precompiled version here
http://jornada820.sf.net/files/haret
The program allows a very detailed research in an interactive mode,
but first i'm interested in the most simple things.
Please put this program in some directory, and create a file named
"default.txt" containing a line
Code:
dump gpio athenagpio
in the same directory.
Start the program and press the "Run" button.
Exit.
You should see the file "athenagpio" in the same directory.
Please upload it here.

Haret dump file
CR2, Please see attached file.
It seems to be looking for a connection on port 9999, but I exited and the resulting file uploaded, let me know if this is incorrect or if I can assist further.
knid regards Aamir.

akhanaix said:
It seems to be looking for a connection on port 9999, but I exited and the resulting file uploaded, let me know if this is incorrect or if I can assist further.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Cool Dumping settings from a working machine is often
much more helpful than any static analysis.
I'm already editing the wiki based on your data.
Can you connect to the machine with telnet to port 9999,
and do you know how to log the session ?
We need to find out your board ID (if you don't know it already from the bootloader) and it is possible to dump a lot of other useful info.

Please give me the details and I wil try, I am currently away from my pc, but in essence is this correct :
[1] get the bootloader details (quick link please)
[2] Connect to the "home" wifi network.
[3] Work out the ip address on the Ameo
[4] telnet form PC on Wifi network to the Ameo ip Address
e.g.
[4.1] open command window or cmd on Home PC
[4.2] telnet 192.168.0.xxx [space] 9999
After which i suspect I am connected to something running on that 9999 port?
please let me know if that is roughly what you are after and then I can assist.
kind regards Aamir.

akhanaix said:
Please give me the details and I wil try, I am currently away from my pc, but in essence is this correct :
[1] get the bootloader details (quick link please)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not necessary, we can find it out ourselves.
[2] Connect to the "home" wifi network.
[3] Work out the ip address on the Ameo
[4] telnet form PC on Wifi network to the Ameo ip Address
e.g.
[4.1] open command window or cmd on Home PC
[4.2] telnet 192.168.0.xxx [space] 9999
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Exactly.
After which i suspect I am connected to something running on that 9999 port?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You are connected to haret (remote debugger, if you like) and can run debugging commands.
BTW, it can be deduced from your dump that the phone and wifi are
switched off. Can you switch them on (maybe the GPS too) and
do the gpiodump again ?
Thanks!

wu5262 said:
yes i also agree the keyboard isn't that good in Athena, but hey don't forget, there is a possibility that we can buy extra keyboard that is better then Universal to attach to out Athena in the future.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi Wu,
What is this extra keyboard you are talking about?

jlingo said:
Hi Wu,
What is this extra keyboard you are talking about?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This one
http://www.expansys.com/p.aspx?i=140983

jlingo said:
Hi Wu,
What is this extra keyboard you are talking about?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
there isn't one yet, all i am saying is there is a possibility that we will see third party keyboard that we can attach and replace the original one, it might have some more features such as extra row. Personally, i think it isn't that hard to achieve.

How do you use your shift?

Was wondering how most people use their Shift. I like to write and it is pretty good at recognizing my crappy left handed writing. My biqgest problem is keeping my hand off the screen and the other is keeping it from overheating. I use it often on my lap. or resting on my leg and if I don't put a book under it to keep it off my clothing IT OVERHEATS.
Diane

thats right you should keep on your lap for short periods only. I just have to say that I enjoy the multitude of possibilities with this baby. I use it in a nr of ways, but actually sit it on a table and type/surf most of the time.

i love the battery life in the WinMo side... and Opera Mini is superb in full screen... i'm using Vista a lot more than i thought i would as well. I guess this is mainly as the WinMo side is still so crippled without the SD access. Fingers crossed that access to it is feasible!

I use the TAB key as F11 key for full screen when browsing (remapped it, and of course the "Caps lock" into "Left Shift").
Use Both IE and Firefox. And both use the F11 luckily. Full screen swapping is quite important with such a small real estate.
Waiting eagerly for some updates, like those problems with SD card adn Shgctrl.
But I force myself to use it more frequently. Even ordered an extra battery at Expansys. (92 euro's with shipping!)
Pitty there is no hot swapping for batteries. So now it will take me an extra six minutes I think.
Do not use yet the Winmo options you guys found out. I need more spare time for that.
Huib

Must admit I don't use it now as it has too many restrictions and limitations and I tend to just use a laptop and smartphone.
This device could have been so good but has been badly let down in implementation by HTC

Shift is good for my mobile life.
For WM:
I check my stocks by Stock Manager and watch the TV news everyday by a TV Program
I get all the daily info from http://pda.xy.hk
For Vista:
I uses powerpoint for presentation weekly.
I access the ebanking for trading by IE

herpi said:
I use the TAB key as F11 key for full screen when browsing (remapped it, and of course the "Caps lock" into "Left Shift").
Use Both IE and Firefox. And both use the F11 luckily. Full screen swapping is quite important with such a small real estate.
Waiting eagerly for some updates, like those problems with SD card adn Shgctrl.
But I force myself to use it more frequently. Even ordered an extra battery at Expansys. (92 euro's with shipping!)
Pitty there is no hot swapping for batteries. So now it will take me an extra six minutes I think.
Do not use yet the Winmo options you guys found out. I need more spare time for that.
Huib
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why don't you try reanpping F11 to a pen flick? I use it everyday, and it's better than losing a key for it.

how do you do that?

Click on pen flick icon, on tray, or in control pannel. choose pen and input settings, then flicks and customize. Choose the direction you want to assign, then bring the on-screen keyboard to register the F11 keypress.

I am using it now for most admin type functions in work. After some practice sessions I am now using the shift in meetings. A problem with tablets/PCs for notes is that if you dont get the info first time its gone.
I tried using One Note but found it a bit flakey for on the fly stuff. I am now committed to using Journal for all meetings. It seems to work flawlessly and the handwriting recog seems pretty accurate. I concur with the overheating concerns and have found that if you havent got a book or something similar then the screen needs to be extended and laid flat and the keyboard used with your thumbs to avoid heat issues.
I am using the Office progs and One Note for carrying all my reference docs that I need and I sync those with my desktop. I am now not bothering to take my laptop to work. This is good as sometimes I go to work on my push iron. I am using the Shift for general surfing. This can sometimes seem like hard work but Im persevering. I have given up on Origami and Im not that keen on using my fingers except for the odd OK button.
With regards to the snapvue I have instsalled the full wm6 and office in an attempt to get me turned on. Its more useful now its synced with my outlook - however despite having been virtually joined at the hip with an XDA Orbit for a few years I cant really get turned on by snapvue when I have a full Vista one click away. However it is useful for contacts and diary if you dont have time to boot up.
Im going to explore the possibility of watching movies on it but first impressions arent that great. I have been listening to music but have found that it doesnt stream that great across my wifi using The Orb. I am going to try and use Media Monkey instead to see if that improves things.
All in all a great tool but you have to adjust to it.

Use for share trading
Well,
The wait for a device that can be portable enough to take anywhere is over.
I use my Shift for primarily share trading. I use a share trading package and Next-G WLAN. Yes, it is expensive, but you get what you pay for, i.e. always relaible, unbeatable reception, etc, etc.
I take it with me on lunch breaks, meeteings, out and about and do trades, and never miss a good trade!!! I have probably made the money I spent back on it already. I am contemplating keeping my Dell M1330 at home!!!
I also use it for e-mail (secondary), that is, I set email to check mail but leave copy on server. My main laptop will be final home for the emails.
I also use it to make VoIP calls, I use Express Talk, costs about USD$20, but it is the best VoIP around (in my opinion of course). My service provider is Engin (also expensive, but 100% quality, of course my opinion again). 10c calls to anywhere in Aussie, 20c/min mobile is great. Works well with BT headset!
I also use it to connect to a couple of servers at home using TServ. It works great, both in Vista and WM6 (thanks to the Liberate!!!)
WM6 is disappointing, but it serves its purpose, i.e. it keeps the 3G connection always active no matter what the state of the HTC shift. I think the way the SHIFT works is that a NDIS connection is made b/ween the Vista and the WM6 device (same as if you used your 3G PDA connected to laptop for internet access). It is also a gap-filler (haha) when you are waiting for Vista to load up!!!
WM6 polling (pull) mail is great. Havent given much thought or care to the push mail, who cares? Unless you need real-time mail, set poll to 5 mins. Most 3G packages are in the 3-5GB range now, so dont stress about bandwidth usage.
The device does get warm, but once again, who cares. Be sure to keep the rear vent and the side vents clear enough, i.e. the device sucks air from the side vents. Hand-hold the device is fantastic, esp the mini-mouse pad, takes some getting used to. I find myself using my finger most of the time.
I have been a veteran hand-held device, as early as the good-old Casio organisers, Sharp Zairo, and owned ever XDA ever made. I have also owned a couple of "try-hard" UMPCs. And I have to say, this is the grand-daddy. Remember, technology is all about trade-offs. And HTC have traded of things for useable features.
The complaint about the heat, etc, where do you expect the heat to go? It must dissipate somewhere. Until they make 0.1mV 0.1nm processors we will have to live with this heat.
Oh, and not been too cheecky, this is not a laptop, i.e. dont put on your lap This is design to hand-hold and/or put on a desk.
Another mobilility point, the device has a G-Sensor that is supposed to detect drops. I carry this around with me while its on, and I have had two occassions where the G has supposedly detected a "drop". Havent given much thought as to whether the device has a "G-setting", and dont really care, I guess I just need to put it to sleep each time.
At home, I connect a 24" 1920x1200 monitor to this little badboy, run BT mouse, keyboard and Ethernet and the [poor] thing still works very well. Therefore, if you dont look down you will almost feel like you are using an actual desktop!!! I like to keep the rear slightly elevated to assist in cooling (the fan works at slightly lower RPM)
Happy to answer any questions you may have about this device, or if you want some comfort to buy one

I mainly use it (and any computer) for writing documents, web and mail. I do use it on my lap! I find that the leather case is rigid enough to provide a flat surface that keeps the vents clear. I'm using Opera and OpenOffice on the Vista side, which work very well. In WM, I use IE for browsing and for writing, I tend to just use unformatted text in an e-mail and mail it to myself.
Basically, if you are OK with the small screen and keyboard, it's the perfect travel machine. I was a Toshiba Libretto user in the late 1990s, but always felt I needed a Psion 5 or Revo for the ability to switch on and start typing.
In thes days of PDA/phone convergence, I am amazed that HP and others who used to make touch-typable folding devices have given up on that form-factor. Every journalist I know would buy one. One guy I know still uses his Psion 5, despite having to sync.
I have Mobile Office but have not really used it yet apart from viewing attachments (for which I also use XPDF). If another couple of months go by without needing it for composition, then I'll uninstall it and find some lightweight DOC/XLS/PPT viewers.
I have also been using Google Maps for WM, which tries and often succeeds to sniff out the cell location in the absence of GPS. It gets the maps pretty quickly with 3G, and adequately with GPRS, so you don't have to store them locally.
That's about it.
Thanks to everyone working on the project.
Matthew Karas

HTC sucks big time
I leave my htc shift at home. I found that its quite A HANDICAPPED device. Windows mobile is useless as the ram is so tiny. After liberating it and putting just a few software it runs out of memory. I cannot access the SD card. Although some guys here are trying, this should have been the job of HTC. Those HTC programmers are truly sleeping or simply lacking in talent. To have Vista on this device is a joke. Why can't they learn from OQO or Asus EE where they realize the user experience is better with XP on such a small device.
Lastly the battery life is so short. There is no extended battery. Even if there is the weight will increase to 950gm. 100 grams more will get me a Sony TZ 18GN which last for at least 8 hours, on a big screen. HTC should not have sold this product as this has tarnished their reputation. Most of the retail shops tell me if u want a good machine buy a Sony. If u want a cheap machine buy the Asus. Forget about HTC SHift. This is a pure waste of money

greatestkelvin said:
This is a pure waste of money
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
so bad reaction ... reading your post is a total waste of time

arvinf said:
At home, I connect a 24" 1920x1200 monitor to this little badboy, run BT mouse, keyboard and Ethernet and the [poor] thing still works very well.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1920 x 1200... really ??? so nice !!!
are you still using vista? what do you think about it ?
can you tell me the time it takes for a COLD boot and for coming back from Hibernate ?
I really would like to buy it.. to replace desktop, laptop and.. maybe PDA/Phone.

My HTC stand at home.
Will not OS of him.

greatestkelvin - I will save your frustrations by buying your machine from you!...plenty of folk waiting for them here. Oh, wait, that is if you actually have one? If you do it sounds like you didn't do your homework first....

koala996 said:
1920 x 1200... really ??? so nice !!!
are you still using vista? what do you think about it ?
can you tell me the time it takes for a COLD boot and for coming back from Hibernate ?
I really would like to buy it.. to replace desktop, laptop and.. maybe PDA/Phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
to boot up vista to password screen it takes 1 min for me (I don't have SP1 btw)
after logging in you have to wait a few more seconds because of shagctrl etc starting up - and you *need* shagctrl (= shift control center).
to come back from hibernation, about 12 secs to reach "resuming windows" and the whole process is about half a min
and to resume from sleep, 4 secs now, but maybe if it is left in sleep for longer then it's a bit longer to come back, but still fast

Most time i use the WM/SnapVue side with softmaker Office 06 (without grammer dictionary to save memory). I can write over 10 hours on an longer text or work with Real-Exel without any noises- and headproblems. With WM the Shift ist really "ultramobile". Other programs i use are freeware like Tombo (TreeList Texteditor) - ResInfo (Systeminformation) - WKtask (Quick Launcher, Taskmanager, and more), Hotkeys (remap keyboard), Cleartemp and Total Comander. It´s a shame, that the WM Side is limited only 13MB free memory left to save and share files. For office documents okay, but other nice WM things like mobipockes e-books an disaster.
But i like the Shift and look hopefully in the Shiftproject Thread

Just started spending time on the WM6 time
I'm just starting to use WM6 on my shift. It's my first device using this OS, and I am amazed at how good Mobile Google Maps is. It's the perfect application for the WM side as it makes good use of the high bandwidth connectivity, whilst not using up much memory.
I'm on the lookout for any other cool WM apps that suit the resources of the Shift in this way. I'd be most grateful if those of you with superior knowlege in this are could share their recommendations for cool/useful apps for WM6 on the Shift.
I bought my Shift because I like the outdoors, and I like computers. I like having the knowledge of the world at hand where ever I am.