Database Users

No LED on answer/hangup buttons on hinge

Hi,
When i first setup my Exec using personal mode, the answer and hangup buttons on the hinge woudl illuminate when a call came in (when the unit is closed like a laptop). Now i am using it in corporate mode, the LED's don't illuminate. They only illuminate when the screen is rotated into PDA mode.
I am assuming this is a reg hack. Does anybody know what it is? or has anybody else got this problem?
Cheers
Paul

They don't illuminate when the device is closed, only when you have the screen open or facing outwards.

hollinshead said:
They don't illuminate when the device is closed, only when you have the screen open or facing outwards.
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Click to collapse
And very annoying it is too - especially when both buttons look so similar when not illuminated. This must be hackable?

This has got to be one of the most annoying features of the exec.
Also i have found that if the device is closed, MSVC does not recognise anything you say when activated via BT.
I have never really played with the device in personal mode as the GUI is bollox so cannot comment on if the buttons light up or not when the device is closed. But what i do know is that when it is closed the screen is switched off as if the device is in standby mode, maybe this has something to do with it.

I try to memorize the position of the green button in relation to how I always hold the phone and feel for it like a Braille board. So far I get it 75% of the time.

is anybody using the 'Personal' install on their exec? can they confirm if the LED's are illuminated or not when the phone rings when it is closed?
Cheers
Paul

Someone who's actually opened the Universal may be able to confirm this, but I suspect that the answer/hang up buttons on the hinge don't actually have LED's. I believe that they simply use the light from the screen's backlight to illuminate. As near as I can tell, they're only on when the screen backlight is on.
If that is the case, then there probably won't be a way to get them to illuminate when the case is closed, unless someone can figure out how to get the backlight to stay on when the case is closed (which would also be a big battery waster)
Brett

Yup, i can confirm this. I've just removed the cover on the top of the hinge. There is one wrapped cable coming out of the base at the right hand side. This then splits off, the main part goes up into the pivot hole, and a thinner wrapped wire brakes away from this and attaches to a small pcb which has the buttons and the LED's mounted on it.
Yes, the buttons are only illuminated when the backlight is on, but the brightness of the buttons remains constant even when the backlight brightness is turned down.
Cheers
Paul

As far as I see it, even if the backlight has to come on that wouldn't be a problem - after all, the phone is waking up in order to ring. I also often open up the screen slightly to see who's calling, then close it and press the answer button - therefore switching on the backlight initially would actually save time!

Maybe somebody knows of a "wake-on-ring" hack :lol:

I've just noticed it with my new Qtek 9000 and I was very worried, because I thought my device is broken.
But now I know this is "normal", but it's very annoying :?

I wish I had this problem! .. since yesterday my JJ seems to have those lights permanently on even when I switch the device off

Guys, I've made a program that will keep the hinge leds on all the time.
Actually this is an accidental discovery for a program I'm working on for this thread:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/viewtopic.php?t=37201&highlight=
Those guys want to be able to use the keys and phone functions with the lid closed.
I'll post more in that thread, but basically closing the lid puts the hardware keys in a special state such that they are not responsive at all until the device is woken internally (eg by an incoming phone call). Actually, can someone confirm that the hinge keys work when a call comes in but the lid is closed. I presume they must, since they don't do anything else!
So, the hinge lights are on when the screen is on. But the screen is switched off when the lid reaches about 10 degrees to closing. But the hinge lights can be kept on nevertheless
Grem: are you using TCPMP or a similar program to play music etc in the background? Anything that tries to keep the phone "on" when the lid is closed will keep the hinge lights on.
V

Hi vijay555
I've actually just done a complete cold re-boot and reflashed to the original i-mate factory ROM to see if that would help, then came here in search of anyone having a similar issue.
It started yesterday, i suspect I've had an internal meltdown somewhere, plugged it into sync, noticed a few minutes later it had randomly done a warm reset and appeared stuck on the blue i-mate screen, picked it up and the sucker was hotter than an AMD without a heatsink! I suspect it's warranty time for this unit

Grem, that's worrying. What were you doing at the time? What brand/operator etc is the phone? It might be worth posting batch numbers or whatever for people that have this kind of problem so we can identify if some are worse then others.
V

It's an i-mate straight from the wholesaler no particular operator. Had it a couple of months, have seen other reports on the forum here which sound perhaps similar in that they've overheated.

Use of buttons while closed - A question for Vijay?

I guess this is one for Vijay, but I'm getting confused as to the situtation with regard to buttons when the clam is shut.
I know there is a bit of overlap with the Torch utility here, but I'd really like the VoiceDial button to work while the clam is shut (plus, I think the upcoming Torch utility would be most useful if it worked while the clam was shut).
What's the current state of play with regard to getting these buttons to work while the clam is shut?
Cheers,
Steve.

StevePritchard: this could go in the old thread really, but you're right, there is an overlap with the torch app (I've settled on "VJCandela"). I did a bit of R&D from the viewpoint of enabling keys generally for both the torch app and VC. I will seek to release VJCandela prior to a full fix and update should a solution be found.
I know it can be done. Let's say this: I've had a very successful negative finding that indicates a possible way to go. I'm seeking an opinion from the Oracle (Buzz) and will then continue with this, probably around the weekend.
V

That's interesting news. Do you think there will be any "issues" with the technique you are investigating, i.e. are you fooling it to think that the clam is open so the screen stays on and reduces battery life?
Cheers,
Steve.

I think it's more like fooling the device into it's thinking its in PDA mode, I use my Exec screen out all the time, and pressing the camera button, or phone buttons wakes the device up no problem, no need to use the power button and the battery life seems to last no problem at all.
I have "turn off device" on batteries after 3 mins
I have even thought about opening it up to find the system it uses to detect screen in as opposed to screen out and seeing if I could disble it mechanically
Regards

gooroo: it's not merely a hardware mechanism. I can already disable detection of the clam closing, to a degree (ie I can't enable external keys yet), as Steve knows. He's used VJElectrify which incorporates VJClamHack (Steve - I've made a better version of this, no reboot required, but not for release until I can do something with it).
However, if the next hack can be pulled off, which is all software based, then it open up interesting possiblities... certainly the perfect clam hack (with full external key access with clam closed) would be possible. But, and it's a but bigger then this one, it depends on a fundamental piece of information/technique I've yet to work through with help from the real brains behind this operation...
V

Haptic touchkeyboard for wm6?

Has anyone made a haptic touch plugin for wm6 devices?
Would love the phone to slightly vibrate when I use the touch keyboard.
I'm on a htc diamond btw.

I think it would be cool too, but I think one of the biggest problems is the time delay between hitting the key and feeling the vibration. I also wonder about the effect on battery life... anyways I would still like to try it!

You might want to do a search because I remember reading about something like this but think it was for the dialer.
I will post here if I find the thread.
-bridic-

Yea I am pretty certain one of the Iphone dialers is haptic or something...perhaps it's a dailer you have to pay for.

I have a couple kinda sorta solutions..
I'm at work so I don't have them here.. But I have one .cab that will vibrate when you press the number buttons on your dial screen, and it work's perfectly. And then I have an .exe that make's every screen tap vibrate, and it kinda sorta work's. I've looked for feedback programs for months, and have found nothing. The best thing i've determined which took me forever, is enabling screen tap sounds, and going into the registry and changing the default sound to vibrate instead.. I can also look up how to do this for you when I get home.. But really there's no good solution out there. On another note this would be almost considered tactile feedback.. Haptic feedback is crazy technology that deals with detecting the electrical current from your touch. That's why current PPC's are awful with this stuff, cause it doesn't have that technology, and most phones that say they do, don't, they just mimic it.
- Walter

Raven1467 said:
I'm at work so I don't have them here.. But I have one .cab that will vibrate when you press the number buttons on your dial screen, and it work's perfectly. And then I have an .exe that make's every screen tap vibrate, and it kinda sorta work's. I've looked for feedback programs for months, and have found nothing. The best thing i've determined which took me forever, is enabling screen tap sounds, and going into the registry and changing the default sound to vibrate instead.. I can also look up how to do this for you when I get home.. But really there's no good solution out there. On another note this would be almost considered tactile feedback.. Haptic feedback is crazy technology that deals with detecting the electrical current from your touch. That's why current PPC's are awful with this stuff, cause it doesn't have that technology, and most phones that say they do, don't, they just mimic it.
- Walter
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Click to collapse
Tnx a lot walter, and thanks for explaining the difference between haptic and tactile
Posting a guide on changing the registry or giving me a link to the two programs mentioned over would be great.

Raven1467 said:
On another note this would be almost considered tactile feedback.. Haptic feedback is crazy technology that deals with detecting the electrical current from your touch. That's why current PPC's are awful with this stuff, cause it doesn't have that technology, and most phones that say they do, don't, they just mimic it.
- Walter
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Click to collapse
uh, not quite sure what "haptic" technology you're talking about, but any feedback of mechanical vibration would definitely be considered "haptic feedback". From wikipeida: "Haptic technology refers to technology which interfaces the user via the sense of touch by applying forces, vibrations and/or motions to the user."
Also, to address concerns a little further up the thread: If implemented correctly, there is no perceptible delay between screen contact and vibration feedback. Me and a couple friends whipped up a little test application based on the WM6 SDK's application template, wherein if you tap anywhere in the application window, the vibration motor is toggled for ~50ms (this can be adjusted based on preference, but 50ms was a nice barely perceptible 'thud' with each tap). The feedback is, for all intents and purposes, instantaneous. Also, since the vibrator is only active for 50ms, you'd need to tap 20 times before you've drained the same battery as a 1 second text message alert, or 40 times for 2 seconds, and so on... really, I think the battery drain would be negligible. Anyway, proof of principle for using the vibration motor for haptic feedback is there, and the affect is quite nice, but we never got much further because of a lack of time and programming knowledge. By the way, if anyone has any information on how to hook into touch.dll (which would be the proper way of implementing a system-wide haptic response), I'd be very interested in hearing about it.

This sounds a very interesting idea! Not every program visually responds to touch when operated with finger, so sometimes I was just left wondering did I make the touch? Did the touch go through? Then one or two seconds later (yes my phone is that slow) something happens. This should help if not eliminate that problem.

Here is the cab for the haptic-esque dialpad if anyone was interested

i've noticed that when haptics is on, it tends to vibrate only every other press
such intensive vibration is probably bad for your phone

a_lazy_dude said:
Also, to address concerns a little further up the thread: If implemented correctly, there is no perceptible delay between screen contact and vibration feedback. Me and a couple friends whipped up a little test application based on the WM6 SDK's application template, wherein if you tap anywhere in the application window, the vibration motor is toggled for ~50ms (this can be adjusted based on preference, but 50ms was a nice barely perceptible 'thud' with each tap). The feedback is, for all intents and purposes, instantaneous. Also, since the vibrator is only active for 50ms, you'd need to tap 20 times before you've drained the same battery as a 1 second text message alert, or 40 times for 2 seconds, and so on... really, I think the battery drain would be negligible. Anyway, proof of principle for using the vibration motor for haptic feedback is there, and the affect is quite nice, but we never got much further because of a lack of time and programming knowledge. By the way, if anyone has any information on how to hook into touch.dll (which would be the proper way of implementing a system-wide haptic response), I'd be very interested in hearing about it.
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That sounds pretty perfect. Would be nice if someone finished your project.

DiemetriX said:
That sounds pretty perfect. Would be nice if someone finished your project.
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Click to collapse
I've installed this but can't find it anywhere. Looked in programs, personal and settings. I've even looked in the windows folder. I have an HTC Raphael.
Any pointers please...?

light sensor app like Iphone (incall screen off)

I was wondering if there's a app that allows the screen to turn off when you put the phone to you head? Then when you bring it out and in front of you, it turns back on. My Iphone did that and I loved that feature.

upping cause i'm intersted too

im believe this feature on the iphone is provided by a proximity sensor, you can probable do this with the light sensor but it would only work in the day time bc at night the screen would always be off...

not unless you use the gsensor too? i think if you work with the light sensor and the gsensor..you can get it to work. maybe have it only work when theres a active call.

This is an extremely good idea!

now if I was only a programmer

i'd love to see this feature on my diamond/blackstone too, i always have problems with the cursor jumping somewhere else when taking a note while in call...
theres already a thread about that:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=451456

sweet. thanks

I really love that fuction on iPhone as well. I found some program that can adjust the Light Sensor to dim the back light as you want. I never try it but surely not work in the dark. If any news on this issue, pls advise!!

I think the g-sensor is the answer, off course in combination with light sensor. If someone could make an app that would turn off the backlight during an active call AND when phone is in vertical position; this could resolve difficulties with light sensor.

aonavy said:
I was wondering if there's a app that allows the screen to turn off when you put the phone to you head? Then when you bring it out and in front of you, it turns back on. My Iphone did that and I loved that feature.
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Click to collapse
There are a couple out there that attempt to solve the same problem the iPhone does.
One I know of is Touchlock Pro - http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=444215
It is free but it still has a little way to go before it is a polished solution
The other is PocketShield -- http://www.pocketshield.net/
It's not free but I found it so effective for the in-call problem as well as general locking/unlocking that it was worth paying for
I've also, as a developer by trade, played with the light sensor, g-sensor, and stylus sensor APIs and tried to create a basic proof of concept that solved just the in-call problem very well and found that without the approach taken by Pocketshield it just was not reliable enough for me.

fireweed said:
There are a couple out there that attempt to solve the same problem the iPhone does.
One I know of is Touchlock Pro - http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=444215
It is free but it still has a little way to go before it is a polished solution
The other is PocketShield -- http://www.pocketshield.net/
It's not free but I found it so effective for the in-call problem as well as general locking/unlocking that it was worth paying for
I've also, as a developer by trade, played with the light sensor, g-sensor, and stylus sensor APIs and tried to create a basic proof of concept that solved just the in-call problem very well and found that without the approach taken by Pocketshield it just was not reliable enough for me.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
All these programms are great software but are nowhere near the iphone solution... like i already said, the problem is e.g. that if you are on the phone and the person on the other end tells you a phonenumber you need to write down - the cursor always jumps to somewhere else as soon as you put your phone back to your ear (and then take it away again ofcourse to continue to notice the number).

ive messed with those apps before with no luch for what i was looking for. Simple app...JUST for incall and end call. light goesout..then comes back in. those other apps are pretty detaild

pitchbend said:
All these programms are great software but are nowhere near the iphone solution...
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Very true, but unfortunately this hardware does not have the same sensor as the iPhone so you can only fake it so much.

I'd love to see this developed as well. But just wondering as some have mentioned using the gsensor; what if your laying down using the phone?

any developers out there. this would be awsome. make it simple. only works when the phone is in call. the gsensor sensing the phone from 0-45 degrees and only 0-5% light. seems sorta simple when u look at it like that.

hey everyone. My HTC Touch Pro came with this functionality out of the box. And i really don't like it at all. I think the difference to the iphone is that the screen does not turn back on until the power button is pressed.

millab said:
hey everyone. My HTC Touch Pro came with this functionality out of the box. And i really don't like it at all. I think the difference to the iphone is that the screen does not turn back on until the power button is pressed.
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My diamond does this already?

mine didnt. very weird.

For what it's worth, S2U2 v.1.42 has an option called "blank screen on call" which essentially disables the touch screen and makes it turn off when a call is connected (both sent and received). To get the screen to turn back on, simply press any hardware button. (Note though that pressing the END button while on a call will end the call as well as turning on the screen.)
I've found this feature to be VERY useful and figured it's as close as we're going to get for the time being .

Hard buttons illuminated?

Hi,
Is their a way that the call answer|home|Back|Call End keys can be highlighted in the dark with say a white light?
That would be so cool when using the phone in the dark!
I guess it really depends if there's some kind of light behind the buttons?

samir_d said:
Hi,
I guess it really depends if there's some kind of light behind the buttons?
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exactly!!..and there isn't

This is one of the couple of things that really does my nut in about the HD.

i wish it did. it would have been a SEXY touch to the HD

matthew1471 said:
This is one of the couple of things that really does my nut in about the HD.
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Click to collapse
Yes it is so stupid that I think a ten year old child designed it. They are impossible to see in the dark and often I press the wrong one and are almost throwing the phone in the floor in anger

I suspose a skillful "Mod-er" could silkscreen some glow-in-the-dark paint on an adhesive layer (perhaps as simple as scotch tape) and adfix it to the front. Who knows might even be a market for this. I'd pay $4.95 US for it.

abeery said:
I'd pay $4.95 US for it.
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Click to collapse
"But not $5.00. $5.00 is too much"

A lot better without any additional lights, imho.
I like reading ebooks in the dark with the phone, and experices with other phones have shown that leds etc are annoying.

solution number one would be a sw controlled led system that could let you decide on/off, intensity, color, animation motive, strobosystem connected to audio output, blinking and blinking speed, for each key independently...
maybe i just exaggerated but what the hell since it's all impossible as the leds aint there i don't see why i shouldnt

crashDebug said:
solution number one would be a sw controlled led system that could let you decide on/off, intensity, color, animation motive, strobosystem connected to audio output, blinking and blinking speed, for each key independently...
maybe i just exaggerated but what the hell since it's all impossible as the leds aint there i don't see why i shouldnt
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You could probably use available GPIO lines (if any are not used) to control the leds, but modding mobile devices without some kind of blueprints is next to impossible It's unlikely there's enough space inside the HD to house the leds and wiring required for such mod.

just hold your hand below your HD so the light of the screen reflects onto the buttons, simple enough imho

The buttons are overrated. I hardly ever use them. The only one I use is the very left buttin for Voice Command.
And I am able to find the button in complete darkness!!!!
I wish they would be gone in favor of a bigger screen.

HTC wanted to illuminate the hard buttons, but couldn't. The strategy behind the touch hd was to create the first device ever that will totally disallow its user to obtain any useful information whether a call has been missed while he was away from the phone. Moreover, part of the strategy was to *make sure* no matter how much the community will try to correct this situation, that they will stand no chance.
For this, HTC went with a tiny, faint, green led missed-call indicator at the side of the on/off button, and to make sure nobody will be able to program a solution, they had to let go the illuminated hard buttons (since otherwise the community could have programed it to behave like the Diamond, and so it would have been possible to know if you missed a call). It was a compromise for HTC, but the manager of the touch hd product recently was quoted saying that they feel satisfied with this compromise, because they feel that sacrificing hard button illumination was well worth it if the prize is to create the very first device that can be 100% inefficient at showing the missed calls you had while being away from the phone (and no less important: is 100% bulletproof against any attempt of the community to disable this cutting-edge feature).

Noam23 said:
(...)
can be %100 inefficient at showing missed calls without the screen being active.
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Click to collapse
99% only!! you forget the LED on the powerbutton?

crashDebug said:
99% only!! you forget the LED on the powerbutton?
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Click to collapse
Actually it's 99.99999999999999999999999% inefficient, but in this situation (where you'll have to miss several billion calls in order to notice one) I thought it was safe to round it up to 100%.

Surely the simple way forward here would be through the use of quantum technology.
We know that there are no lights behind the buttons, but that doesn't prevent the butons being illuminated, because in another parallel universe some HTC designer might have accidently designed a useful and practical version of the HD (of course, this is where my idea falls down, as it's impossible for any HTC designer to be so forward-thinking).
Anyway, as I'm sure we all know, you don't actually need an object to exist to have an effect in quantum physics - it only needs to exist in theory to effect the time/space continuum.
So if we could co-ordinate a mass simultaneous experiment, where we all throw our HDs up into the air, and let them all hit the ground at EXACTLY the same time, we should find that we will have easily removed the problem of non-illuminating buttons for all those partaking of this exercise.
A small side effect of this is that we will also remove the issue of poor video playback, poor call handling, crap Today screen ..........

"Anyway, as I'm sure we all know, you don't actually need an object to exist to have an effect in quantum physics - it only needs to exist in theory to effect the time/space continuum."
Boy this is scary, if your theory is right, we could all be subjects of an quantum physics experiment. What if the HD in fact doesn't exist att all!? have you concidered that? If your theory is right, it could just be a flicker in the time/space continuum. :O what the hell, as long as it's persistant I don't care.
To the more real issues. Honestly, do you guys really don't know where the answer, home, back and hangup-buttons are located?? I had not even thought of the fact that they aren't backlit. Most time I don't use them at all, but I'm pretty sure most user here in fact can point them out in pitch dark if they had to. But I must admit the lack of light underneath them is a little bit odd from a design point of view though.
For the missed call isue, isn't there a way to make the screen backlight flash with very short quite frequent flashes to indicate missed calls? For those who check the phone for missed calls every other minute this could be a good med against hart attack (or atleast blue fingertip from pressing the power-button a million times).

nikki-m said:
A small side effect of this is that we will also remove the issue of poor video playback, poor call handling, crap Today screen ..........
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Click to collapse
I really like those side effects, only problem is that we'll also lose warranty, so if in the distant future something bad will happen to our beloved touch hd, we will not have coverage...

To the more real issues. Honestly, do you guys really don't know where the answer, home, back and hangup-buttons are located?? I had not even thought of the fact that they aren't backlit. Most time I don't use them at all, but I'm pretty sure most user here in fact can point them out in pitch dark if they had to.
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Impossible !!!, you make it sound as easy as typing on a computer keyboard without looking at the keys... why do you lie to us my dear friend when we all know remembering the location of the 4 keys in the touch hd is orders of magnitude harder ?

Noam23 said:
Impossible !!!, you make it sound as easy as typing on a computer keyboard without looking at the keys... why do you lie to us my dear friend when we all know remembering the location of the 4 keys in the touch hd is orders of magnitude harder ?
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Click to collapse
Well... you have a point... but in the other hand your statement is pretty contradictory in itself. My computer (a macbook, I'll probably get my ass kicked for saying that) has no backlit keyboard and has something like 80 keys so it sounds pretty weard that it would be easer to learn the location of all of them. or have you written a program that alters the location of the 4 HD-keys so you honestly can say that it's impossible to learn?