Related
I am particularly interested in the wizard, however on a fundamental level WM will most likely operate the same across most models in respect to this issue (or at least that is the theory).
I realize that most GSM boards have processors on them which do things like channel syncing (which is fairly time sensitive since its tdma&fdma), a5, gsm framing, and all that. You more or less connect a sim, speaker and mic, and treat the gsm rf board as a black box.
I am hoping that somewhere someone has unearthed something that allows more direct control over the gsm board on these phones. I am aware of engineering mode, however that is not quite what I wanted.
I would like to be able to at the very least set the call parameters before a call goes out. For example, lets say that I want to disable A5, sinec there are 3 standard levels one being no encryption, and the tower and the phone negotiate and agree upon the highest common, something in the phone somewhere has to say that it supports encryption.
I am just uncertain if all that is burried away in a 'black box' somewhere and its not a software problem from within WM.
If anyone has any ideas I would greatly appreciate it, even if they are pointers to research material that may help me out a bit.
On WinMobile GSM part is isolated from the windows part, like in normal PCs modem hardware is isolated from mainboard. GSM part has its own CPU, RAM, ROM, operating system, and communicates with Windows via COM-port (or USB port in Universal). For example Universal has Qualcomm MSM6250 chip with some proprietary OS. HTC Himalaya had a different chip (I don't remember it now), and OS was based on nucleus RTOS. Anextek SP200 communicator had Siemens MC45 modem inside.
GSM hardware is a black box for WinMobile OS. MS specifies only some recomendations for OEMs, and controlling encryption is not among them. You can control it if GSM vendor supports some AT command, or some other proprietary method (maybe via dev_specific RIL command).
In the case of Universal, its GSM can be controlled from a PC with the usual Qualcomm diagnostic software (QXDM, QPST, etc), when you setup the device as a pass-through bridge between PC and GSM module. But I don't know any methods of doing the same from inside WinMobile.
mamaich said:
GSM hardware is a black box for WinMobile OS.
...
You can control it if GSM vendor supports some AT command, or some other proprietary method (maybe via dev_specific RIL command).
In the case of Universal, its GSM can be controlled from a PC with the usual Qualcomm diagnostic software (QXDM, QPST, etc), when you setup the device as a pass-through bridge between PC and GSM module. But I don't know any methods of doing the same from inside WinMobile.
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Click to collapse
That is what I was afraid of. Most of the GSM radio boards (or individual chips) are set up to act that way, and since its faster and cheaper I really dont know of anyone that hasnt done that in any phone that was made in the last few years.
At any rate, is there any documentation that discusses how to locate which com port or other method is used to access the GSM device within a wizard (or any other htc model, odds are many of them are similar, if not identical with this subcomponent).
Are there any known AT commands? my first project is to write something similar to the gsm engineer mode program, obtaining BTS information. I am unsure if this is obtained only via AT commands or if its something more involved, but welcome any information on this.
Found what appears the be half the answer at http://wiki.xda-developers.com/index.php?pagename=RIL While that gives me access to the radio for some stuff (location data app that can work with gsmloc.org for example) it does not appear to enable me to set any parameters for a new call.
So if anyone knows of any tricks that would help say for example disable a5 crypto (on a per call basis idealy) or something similar to the setup of a call I would still appreciate hearing about that.
I know that Typhoon ( spv c500 / i-mate sp3 /Dopod 565) memory block with gsm info data. I am trying to find it in Magican - but no results. I dont know how Typhoon place this info in mem.
Cellid is coming soon ina new release
Enjoy and Merry Xmas
Thanks so much for that austin_boy!!!
Thanks!!!
Dan
austin_boy said:
Cellid is coming soon ina new release
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Click to collapse
It would be useful f it'd show CellIDs for neighbour towers as well!
it will show the cell ids in the next release
Austin_Boy - GOOD JOB
I am T-Mobile user in USA and there is some discripences in user manual and real values.
Item 36 and 37 in User Manual (RLC: Uplink coding Scheme and RLC: Downlink coding Scheme) I have read-outs like this
0 - CS1 - same
8 - MCS4 - different - supposed to be MCS5
9 - MCS5 - different - supposed to be MCS6
12 - MCS8 - different - supposed to be MCS9
This is in EDGE network in NYC area. I use FieldTest_157.
May you check it out? Thank you.
Pawlisko said:
Austin_Boy - GOOD JOB
I am T-Mobile user in USA and there is some discripences in user manual and real values.
Item 36 and 37 in User Manual (RLC: Uplink coding Scheme and RLC: Downlink coding Scheme) I have read-outs like this
0 - CS1 - same
8 - MCS4 - different - supposed to be MCS5
9 - MCS5 - different - supposed to be MCS6
12 - MCS8 - different - supposed to be MCS9
This is in EDGE network in NYC area. I use FieldTest_157.
May you check it out? Thank you.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Can we monitor the handover process via this field test? If yes, what's the parameter for WCDMA and GSM? Pof, thank you very much for the SuperCID thingy...
tr4657 - What do you mean handover in WCDMA? It does not work this way.
In CDMA as long as WCDMA you may might be served by few NodeB's. In FieldTest in WCDMA group you have field Num3GServing which will tell you how many NodeB are serving you. From 1 to 3 at the same time. Items 154-157. Item 146 shows if handset are communicating with NodeB.
In GSM you will be able to see handover when Cell-ID field will be introduced. But only on the time of handover.
Hope that answer you question
Pawlisko said:
tr4657 - What do you mean handover in WCDMA? It does not work this way.
In CDMA as long as WCDMA you may might be served by few NodeB's. In FieldTest in WCDMA group you have field Num3GServing which will tell you how many NodeB are serving you. From 1 to 3 at the same time. Items 154-157. Item 146 shows if handset are communicating with NodeB.
In GSM you will be able to see handover when Cell-ID field will be introduced. But only on the time of handover.
Hope that answer you question
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
OK. Half of my question was answered. Thanks. But I was searching for handover timing and occurences when travelling from point A to point B... I guess I need Nokia Net Monitor to do it.... Huhuhuhi... Sad...
tr4657 - In Nokia Net Monitor you mean Display 41 and 42? If yes - you have to speak with austin_boy thou I think it is not possible that way.
Field test is live program, and you probably need that program to be resident to constantly monitor network parameters and save them.
Nokia NetMon is good, thou to beter monitor networks you need commercial programs, PCMCIA card and laptop to save your findings. Problem with software because it is very expensive (ca. 10k USD).
CDMA and WCDMA work in very different way than GSM. GSM is constant checking due to its nature (TDMA - uses Time, Slots in Cells, Coverage is fixed, only connected to one Slot in BTS, than handoff[handover] to different Slot etc). CDMA is very different (CDMA - uses Code, Cells does not have Slots, Coverage is changing due to workload) that is why it is event driven.
Back to your question - you need better software, for most of us Field_Test is enough - Nokia NetMon is good but also not good enough. If you need more - 10k USD and professional software will give you everything. Almost everything - you need somebody in NMC to cooperate with you for all data.
Thanks for the info. By saying I need a special program; does the program then needs it's own monitoring hardware? I sometimes came across several sites offering the specific hardware to measure all the parameters of Cellular Network including UMTS/CDMA... BTW, what is the name of the software?
tr4657 - I do not have answer for you about software name. I have it somewhere in my private newsgrups but will take time to find it.
I know that there is special software installed in SonyEricsson's, Nokia's and Motorola's handset. This software is very rare, part of selled network infrastructure. Other software is PC based. Usualy you have to have PCMCIA card with special drivers, which allows direct hardware monitoring.
Never heard of software for PPC thou probably it is developed.
Data logging
Can anyone think of a way to log the data from field test at regular intervals eg for mapping reception of an area?
Cell ID Vaule
I have installed this app on my Hermes device. Looks to be working largely OK, but No Cell ID in the AMR section. Any idea ??
Other Devices
Next question - will the application work on any other devices (namely the HTC Artemis). Many Thanks
ace10 said:
I have installed this app on my Hermes device. Looks to be working largely OK, but No Cell ID in the AMR section. Any idea ??
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Click to collapse
You need to pick up 2g signal, if your signal is 3g AMR will not work. Force 2g in band selection.
ace10 said:
Next question - will the application work on any other devices (namely the HTC Artemis). Many Thanks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Is for hermes only.
Cell ID's
vijovame said:
You need to pick up 2g signal, if your signal is 3g AMR will not work. Force 2g in band selection.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I definately have no 3G signal here - but cell id field was missing from that section..
I'm trying to create a program similar to fieldtest for network diagnostics and troubleshooting for customers on the NextG network which uses 850MHz HSDPA technology. The program must read signal strength and local/neighbouring cell id and then log the data along with some gps info. I'm using an imate jasjam. I guess that the values given in field test are accessed via the RIL? It would be nice to get a copy of the source code for this program so I could see what is happening...
gunrum44 said:
I'm trying to create a program similar to fieldtest for network diagnostics and troubleshooting for customers on the NextG network which uses 850MHz HSDPA technology. The program must read signal strength and local/neighbouring cell id and then log the data along with some gps info. I'm using an imate jasjam. I guess that the values given in field test are accessed via the RIL? It would be nice to get a copy of the source code for this program so I could see what is happening...
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Click to collapse
Will be great. Where is NextG?
Anybody get VOIP working on the WM6 Herald yet? I've read the entire thread over on the Hermes forum and installed both WM6VoiP.CAB and SipConfig on my Wing. I've gotten the internet connection on Today and have been able to try and dial out but no ring just 15 seconds of silence. I uninstalled and installed VM VI Black VOIP & Config.Cab with the same outcome.
I got it to work, but it worked like Crap. Never messed with it much since . . .
haven't you heard?
http://www.newsfactor.com/story.xhtml?story_id=53378 [\url]
T-Mobile Marries Wi-Fi to Cell Phones
Yep, heard about that. I've only got it working with Fring which blew. Hopefully the "legal" version from t-mobile will be good. Since I pay for their service anyway.
Woops.. Looks like [email protected] may not work. Only for UMA phones which Herald isn't or so they so.
Isn't UMA (the actual handling of switching calls from WiFi to GSM) all in the software. So shouldn't they be able to come out with an update that will allow the wing to work on [email protected]? Is this possible or is there some hardware required that I don't know about to run UMA?
It's software, but not in the "just install and go" sense. The switching is handled at a low level in the radio to keep it seamless. Unless you have access to the sources it's not going to be easy to hack the GSM stack to support UMA.
gamescan said:
It's software, but not in the "just install and go" sense. The switching is handled at a low level in the radio to keep it seamless. Unless you have access to the sources it's not going to be easy to hack the GSM stack to support UMA.
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Click to collapse
That's what i was thinking, it would likely be a full update to the phone, sorta like when I updated my Dash from WM5 to WM6
Check out http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=315654 for a FULL review of Fring.
Hey people,
Yesterday I got fed up with my iPAQ 910c, put it on craigslist and sold it for not much less than what I originally paid for it.
Mainly, the lack of Cell-ID support from HP was really annoying: all kinds of times when I wanted a quick sense of where I was from Google Maps, I'd have to wait a long time for a GPS fix and make sure I held the phone out with a clear view of the sky. Not exactly convenient. And even though Rogers is selling the iPAQ 910c on contract, HP hasn't provided an rilgsm.dll with Name Display (CNAP) support. Stupid.
That, and WM6.5 brings with it (in my opinion) features that really prefer a higher-res screen. And a directional control more advanced than a scroll wheel. And a light sensor to automatically adjust brightness (as opposed to me having the 61x/91x brightness control on hotkey, lol). And more speed.
...so I'm getting an Xperia X1.
It was fun cooking with y'all, and so I leave you in the capable hands of monte & keyx. Adios amigos!
Wow!
Sorry to lose your development skills on the 910 - I always enjoyed your ROMs.
Happy trails!
many thanks to you..
i'm still running your WM6.5 on my ipaq.
but, i'm also wondering to replacing my ipaq with xperia. how does xperia compared to ipaq 912, i just want to know from your point of view.
thx
So far it is awesome - the 800x480 screen is amazing with WM6.5, and the device seems to get both better speed and battery life than the iPAQ. That, plus the Xperia has just enough less width than the iPAQ for me to wrap my hand around when I'm carrying it, running, etc. Not only does Cell-ID provide instant estimates of my location in Google Maps (which itself looks amazing at WVGA), but GPS fix seems to take a fraction of the time it did on the iPAQ.
I can't do one-handed QWERTY typing as quickly or easily as with the iPAQ, but with two hands I don't notice much difference. The screen doesn't pick up nearly as many fingerprint smudges as my iPAQ did. And the optical trackball functions more like the little "pearl" on Blackberries, something HP should have put in the middle of that giant D-PAD.
But basically the screen is the biggest improvement: I went from seeing like 3 titanium homescreen entries on the ipaq (with WM6.5) to now seeing all of them at once. That's huge. I nearly broke even on the upgrade too - bought the iPAQ on eBay this January for like $240, sold for $200 on craigslist, and just got the Xperia from Rogers on a 3-year contract for $225.
Thankfully, there is a large ROM cooking community already in place for the Xperia, so that takes some of the pressure off. My understanding is that cooking for the HP devices is relatively easy once the tools exist; the SD-Loader isn't checking for signed ROM images so no low-level device unlocking is required. HTC phones are a different story - even the ones sold "SIM unlocked" still come with a bootloader that won't accept custom ROMs, and certain XDA gurus have to make a "HardSPL" modified bootloader before custom ROMs can be flashed. Case in point: the poor suckers with the Palm Treo Pro are still without any custom ROMs whatsoever, because the phone isn't quite popular enough to have reached somebody who can make a HardSPL (they're working on that).
Once a HardSPL exists, though, HTC ROM development tends to explode because they keep using the same underlying hardware. Thus the Xperia light sensor is the same as the one on the Touch Diamond and Touch Pro; the radio hardware is interchangeable with those phones too. Moral of the story: check out the state of ROM development before you buy.
soory 2 hear u are out of ipaq roms u had good ones
anyway good luck with your new device and try 2 keep a look 4 plastic cracks
i 4 myself like the front KB like the 6900 900 i780...
i had the ipaq 800 (data messenger) with light sensor dpad sensor very fast gps...(device generl speed slower then the 900 and have no SR )
had some htc devices with sliding hard KB but on such devices i found myself using software KB (if u sms or need somthing short u will see it 2)
the screen must be a great thing
enjoy and tnx 4 all
Good look with the new toy.
Noooooooo....how dare you betray us front facing keyboard lovers!!!
It was good having your roms and knowledge...best of luck with the Xperia!!
I'm currently waiting for a replacement 910c from Rogers right now...my USB connector stopped working Maybe I'll just replace my phone altogether...but...I must have WM, front facing keyboard, gps, wifi, and 7.2mbps dl speed
We'll see what comes out...Samsung looks like it might have a good rival
Again, many thanks and good luck!
Well, congrats on the "upgrade" - I thought someone on Rogers would for sure go for a quad-band phone, but maybe the tri-band will work well enough for you where you are.
By the way - the "cell ID" thing is being worked on, and I thought I had a quick solution involving "cell broadcast" settings in the registry. It's probably only weeks away from being fixed. Keep checking back to see if we get it right.
gfinockio said:
Well, congrats on the "upgrade" - I thought someone on Rogers would for sure go for a quad-band phone, but maybe the tri-band will work well enough for you where you are.
By the way - the "cell ID" thing is being worked on, and I thought I had a quick solution involving "cell broadcast" settings in the registry. It's probably only weeks away from being fixed. Keep checking back to see if we get it right.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
lol I'm in downtown Toronto, but the Xperia is actually quad-band GSM (850/900/1800/1900) and tri-band UMTS (850/1900/2100). Which is exactly the same as the iPAQ.
I wish you the best of luck getting the Cell-ID thing working. I'm mostly just pissed that after all this time Inventec hasn't made a few simple changes to their radio firmware, and HP has the nerve to blame the network carrier in their documentation!
Anyway EREZYAD is right, these past few days my text entry has been split about 50-50 between the software keyboard in portrait mode and the hardware keyboard in landscape. Neither are quite as good as the iPAQ 910c, but the combination is sufficient.
so long benjaminries, never used your rom's but always sad to lose a chef
gfinockio said:
Well, congrats on the "upgrade" - I thought someone on Rogers would for sure go for a quad-band phone, but maybe the tri-band will work well enough for you where you are.
By the way - the "cell ID" thing is being worked on, and I thought I had a quick solution involving "cell broadcast" settings in the registry. It's probably only weeks away from being fixed. Keep checking back to see if we get it right.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Whats up with the "cell ID" issue? Did you get fixed? Can you explain whats wrong with cell ID on HP iPAQ 910c?
zmadaric said:
Whats up with the "cell ID" issue? Did you get fixed? Can you explain whats wrong with cell ID on HP iPAQ 910c?
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Click to collapse
The fact that the 910c doesn't seem to work with Google Maps "My Location" function without using GPS.
gfinockio said:
The fact that the 910c doesn't seem to work with Google Maps "My Location" function without using GPS.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is corroborated by other apps like Navizon that also don't work on the HP 91x/61x.
Basically, the RIL interface specified by Microsoft has several API functions that apps are supposed to be able to call which should return an ID code that identifies the cell tower to which the phone is currently connected. As far as I can tell, the OEM (HP) is supposed to adapt firmware and corresponding WinMo driver files like rilgsm.dll from the radio manufacturer (Qualcomm) to meet Microsoft's specification; however some OEMs like HP "choose" not to implement these APIs such that requests by apps for the Cell ID return a constant error code.
There appear to be two alternative methods of retrieving the cell ID that might have given us hope for HP: (1) broadcast channels and (2) serial requests. But the first option is unhelpful in North America where GSM carriers don't use broadcast channels, and the second option (when I tested it) didn't seem to work either - basically there are a number of direct modem commands that can be sent over COM ports to ask for the cell ID. The results of my testing suggested that the problem lies, at least in part, within the radio firmware itself - perhaps provided to HP by their main manufacturer, Inventec.
To me, the fact that HP/Inventec didn't fix these problems - despite mass outcry by users - suggests that while HP is still patching up what they can on the software side (releasing ROM updates for keyboard and sound issues), whoever created the radio firmware (Inventec?) has sort of walked away, or at least has no stake in keeping existing customers happy.
What the xda-developers community knows about and is able to do with actual HTC hardware, by comparison, is huge...
You did the best bro. It is nearly 2010 and I believe that any other phone after that time should have a BIG scren.
Hi
My idea should work like that:
You have 2 devices with installed this, and you can send an sms, do a call etc without connection to tower, just directly to other device.
It has sense, huh?
Also what about emulating an GSM tower with a device (+ additional antenna etc) which can receive common tasks from another devices?
It's a no. You're limited by hardware.
retsam88 said:
It's a no. You're limited by hardware.
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Click to collapse
Why? except firmware limits
Well, think as phone is like 'slave' for 'master' base station. You cannot change from slave into master, also you would need a huge processing power to differentiate between every cell phone. If you wan't more info, read tech pdf's about GSM cell structure.