Database Users

a 'remote' challenge!

Hi all
Don't know how many of you guys are ipaq transferees like myself, but there is one piece of software on the ipaq that has not been adopted in the XDA series handhelds, namely REVO - the remote control tool.
Anybody into gadgets in the way that we are will have too many remote controls lying about. This tool allowed me to put them on a shelf, and use them very rarely.
So.....
Does anybody have a clue how to extract it from the ipaq ready to be placed on the XDA II. NAturally, owning both devices, one would assume that providing I use it with either one or the other, you can provide this useful information conscience clear!!!!
Look forward to any thoughts
JJ

jjcodex said:
Does anybody have a clue how to extract it from the ipaq ready to be placed on the XDA II.
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Unfortunately, the Himalaya infrared hardware is not capable of communicating with customer devices like TV sets. There is nothing any software could do about this - only some hardware change can help.
Cheers
Daniel

Also some Ipaq's Irda are just very powerfull made..have a range of 10-15 meters.
Normally pda Irda's have a range of 2-3 meters.

not sure why the ir would be 100% incompatible with the tv
if special software written for it was used
about the range issue
http://www.smarthome.com/8220A.html
http://www.homeautomationnet.com/Shopping/remote-control-accessories.asp
http://www.pdawin.com/irtranceiver.html
suppose one of these would inc the range
i had
http://www.pdawin.com/
this software running on my xda1
too bad the range was only 30cm

Thanks for the feedback guys.
I am surprised that the range is so different between devices. I understood that the infra red transmit distance was usually further than the receive. Would this be applicable to the XDA II I wonder. I will run some experiments with a phone to see if I can assess distances.
Had a look at the PDA Win software, looks quite functional, perhaps not as slick as the built ipaq version. 30cm range... doh!
They seem to have specifically excluded the XDA II. I wonder if this is a range issue as you guys have suggested.
Hmmm......
Sounds like an excuse to spend money on a very very very posh do-all remote control!!!!!!!!! (LOL)
Thanks for your thoughts anyway.
Cheers guys

Rudegar said:
not sure why the ir would be 100% incompatible with the tv if special software written for it was used
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Well, TVs use "consumer" infrared, while PDAs use "IrDA". See here for a more detailed explanation. It has nothing to do with the power or the range of the IR LEDs and phototransistors.
Cheers
Daniel

Well, TVs use "consumer" infrared, while PDAs use "IrDA". See here for a more detailed explanation. It has nothing to do with the power or the range of the IR LEDs and phototransistors.
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Click to collapse
and yet i had pdawinøs software working ok on my xda1
and also used it to comm with my laptop so some infrared classify as
both IrDA and consumer
if the range is ok then the only difference i can think of is protocol and that should be possible to work out so that software would work on the xda2
i also had my trusting old hp48 calc working as a remote at a time
prob still have the software somewhere

Well, TVs use "consumer" infrared, while PDAs use "IrDA". See here for a more detailed explanation. It has nothing to do with the power or the range of the IR LEDs and phototransistors.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I would have to side with Rudegar on this one, as I have not only used the Ipaq for several consumer devices but the extremely fundamental Palm III (aahhhh those were the days, when a calculator was considered to be a posh option.
I would say, however, that neither successfully worked with a sky remote, which I wonder may be due to two-way data transfer. I wonder if this is the IrDA vs Consumer difference.
I read the link to the Irda page, which as you suggest states that the two are different. I would agree that the two standards are different, but unless built-in hardware compatability is provided to the majority of pda's, there must be a way of emulating the consumer device within the IrDa protocols.
Hmmm... A little out of my depth on this one. Hopefully somebody else can explain!!
Cheers
JJ

The xda 1 I have works fine as a remote control for my tv and dvd etc, I use "learning2 mode to program the xda using the original remote handset. The xda 2 however is total crap as a remote, however if you wish to use it from one position, for instance the couch in your living room, there is a device called an infra red repeater, this allows you to operate an infra red device from a greater distance, I will see if I can find a name for manufacturer but I am sure this device exists, its selling point was enabling you to operate your cable/sattelite box from upstairs even when you had no line of sight to the box. It was a money saver because you could connect your cable/satellite to your upstairs tv instead of having to purchase a second box from the provider and be able to change channels from upstairs.

Guys,
I wouldlike to get inside the discusion because I have almost the same problem and I would like some help.
I also found the hard way that the XDA II does not work as a remote control, then I found this Total Remote software and module that really got myself impressed, I bought it and also the adaptor for the audio output.
Now I am able to output the signals without problem, the software works very fine and control the eletronic equipments without any problem.
But then I got to test the learning mode and then my problems started. The XDA II canot learn nothing! It wont recognize any kind of command that comes from any remote controler. To make sure it was not a problem of the software I tested to more diferent remote controler softwares and they also does not learn. What really make me disapointed is that even touching the controler IR led with the XDAII IRda port, the XDA II can´t learn anything.
I already tried to disable the "receive all incoming beans" and do a soft reset, but this also does not worked.
I am writing this in the hope I am forgetting something and one of you give me any more idea.
OR
To also ask for the more experts, if it is possible to substitute the IRda port with a common IR led found on any remote controler (of course doing some soldering). If there is compactibility between them, I think I will give it a go, since I really whant a remote control on my XDA II.
Thanks a lot
Felipe

thats what i've been saying all along
the xda2's ir modules is not the default ir module which all the remote software is written for
the remote applications would have to be written directly for the modules ir in the xda2 for it to work
i've come across no such applications as of yet

answering machine software???

hi guys, i couldnt help noticing that when i previously used nokia 6600 (symbian s60) they had few 3rd party that is able to make use of their audio mechanism during callls. for example, one software can make selected background noise for opposite callers so they think that u are at a train station for example when infact u r silently at home. another software is an on board answering machine, which after the phone rang for a few times it answer the fonecall with your automated recorded voice and recorded a msg left by the caller on the fone. this is convenient for us so we dont need to call back our voicemail and reduce cost as well as some telco charge to use their voicemail service. im surprised these kind of software have not came out for our windows mobile device when its already available for symbian. im sure it shouldnt be that hard to make it. any coder expert wanna give it a go??

cutefox, what kind of searches have you made for this software on this board? Did you have much luck?
V

i already tried commercial such as handango and pocket gear.. even freeware sites also no luck.. jus dun understand why no 1 made one yet.. shouldnt b too hard to make one.. it will be a big market to sell such a software for our ppc phone device now that more devices is coming out..

Cutefox: have you tried searching this board? Let me save you the effort, but it'll be a good idea next time. It's not generally considered possible, at least on WM2003 devices because of both hardware and software limitations. It's not that no one has thought of it before: someone seems to think of it approximately every two days... but there are many many threads on this issue.
V

Look at what I said here...
http://forum.xda-developers.com/viewtopic.php?t=9761
That sums up why we can't do it using the api's available to us now. The funny thing is the way bluetooth sends the audio stream to a headset. Obviously the data is getting there somehow but I suspect it is not (directly) via windows. Dose anyone know if the radio hardware for bluetooth is connected to the radio hardware for the phone? My guess is that if you could write a program that windows "sees" as a headset then you could get the audio that way. But thats a problem in itself.
I would love this kind of program myself. How is it that such usefull devices with so many capeabilities can be kept secret from us. We can't use the camera, we can't get the cell id on towers, we can't programatically controll the partnerships in blutooth, we cant get the audio stream of our own phone, the events on some ppc's that control brightness are secret..... the list goes on. This kind of #@!!$$ is going to hurt the future of these devices which I otherwise love.

OdeeanRDeathshead: I had read your previous posts, and as ever, very interesting and informative reading. I had the same idea regarding a "dummy" bluetooth device a while back, but mamaich put me in my place!
http://forum.xda-developers.com/viewtopic.php?p=179839#179839
V

thanks vijay555, thats what I have suspected about the hardware. What I want to do is a bit different. The bluetooth can communicate to many devices at once. If your program could appear to be a headset to the os, then the phone bluetooth hardware could transmit the audio to the headset at the same time your program uses bluetooth to receive it. Kind of like a loop out of the box to bridge the lack of functionality. This shifts the problem to how dose a hardware bluetooth headset communicate. Emulate this and we are on a winner. I don't think I have the willingness to pull my devices appart. I also do not have the money for some of the hardware (eg good digital oscilliscope) that I would need to measure whats going on. I did read that microsoft are about to expose some new api to allow control over the pairing process (but not the audio stream). I hope that we get some soon.
Is there going to be any new (for 2005) free development tools like the evc versions used today?

OdeeanRDeathshead: re eVC, I don't think so. The "express editions" are free, but they specifically omit the functionality to develop "mobile solutions".
Re the loop back. That's a good idea. I think mamaich is our best bet on schematics, I think that would be very helpful. As you "rave", it's mindboggling that Microsoft still haven't revealed or implemented a way to interact with the audio channels. It must have been one of the first things one could imagine doing once you develop a PDA with a phone stuck on the back of it.
Any idea if the bluetooth stacks could support transmitting and receiving simultaneously in this manner? I know some of the boys are working on alternative bluetooth support for the stereo headset profiles, so they might be able to shed some light on the issues involved. I guess the processor overhead could be hefty, but for the benefit it would be beneficial.
V

Will pay for Bluetooth extension enhancement Program

Is there anyone here than can build a similar program to that of Jetware but for Windows Mobile 6 Devices both smartphone and PDA.
I have a Garmin Nuvi 660FM and with Jetware 1.31 I can get all functions working bar the SMS Reader (which also has the ability to read messages via the TTS Function).
Basically what I would like is a program built into a cab installer than can enable all the fuctions of the Garmin Nuvi and Tomtom devices that have bluetooth car kits built in that also support SMS.
I would be willing to pay anyone for a program such as this.

me too, pleeeease
(ciao)

Same here. The guy that made the extension for the bluetooth sony ericsson watches might be able to adapt it to work with other devices. I tried bringing it up to him, but it seems he ignored my post...

up! up! uP!

NRGZ28 said:
Same here. The guy that made the extension for the bluetooth sony ericsson watches might be able to adapt it to work with other devices. I tried bringing it up to him, but it seems he ignored my post...
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The problem is I dont have any of these devices. I have never seen such thing. And most probably I wont even buy such device because I dont like spending money on cars and car accessories. (I like gadgets that fit into my pocket)

These devices use the same protocols as the watch you wrote your software for. I'd like to program my own little app to interface with all the GPS devices that use those features as well as all the bluetooth car stereos out there. Would you be willing to share some tips, or maybe even source code from your software to help me out with this ?

The BT watch uses a lot of Sony Ericsson specific commands.
You have to find commands that sends the GPS unit - so you may use Windows Mobile with configurated virtual COM and some Terminal software to read the commands.

I believe the GPS units (as well as many car stereos, including mine) actually use the Handsfree profile to send these commands back and forth. The jetware extension has a logging mode where you can see a huge log of all these commands that go on between the phone and unit (whatever it may be). Would it be possible to adapt your application to talk over the handsfree profile ? I think the way jetware did it, is they put a dll between the audiogateway on the phone and device, to intercept all the communication.

The handsfree profile shouldn't be much problem I hope. Try to make some commands log and we will see...

Well guys I dont know much about programming but if you need help or can guide me to getting info I will no probs.
Also I will make a donation to help with the costs and as a thank you for any help.

It's been a while since I've programmed anything, but I'm thinking about writing an application similar to moneytoo's in .NET that will take over where jetware's extension stopped.

Any joy guys ?

I still have money up for grabs for whoever can develop this

I still have money too.

Up up! More money from me also!

The problem with this is the way that Windows Mobile (and the like) handle it's OBEX push abilities..
I have.. searched... called... and looked at so many webpages my eyes started to bleed.
OFFICIAL Garmin 660 (and other) bluetooth supported profile information..
https://www.bluetooth.org/qualweb/ProductDetails.cfm?ProductID=3324
Interesting to note. 90% of the phones out there don't work with the SMS funtion. We can get everything else to work (using the various patches and hacks availible on this web site) But SMS/TEXT alluded me.
Like I said, I narrowed it down to the fact that WM devices handle OPEX/Sync a little differently.. We don't support the classic "Server/Client" mode that the Sony phones do. It's these two that confound me..
- OPP-Server
- Sync-Client
Both are subsets of the Generic Object Exchange Profile (GOEP),.
I found patches, programs and the like that allow these two functions in a fashion.. But I also think the stupid Garmin Software looks at the POD file (informs what functions are avail) for specific phone types that are supported.. Or it could be that our phones just don't report the exact information that the Garmin is looking for, so it just disables the whole thing.
Either way. If someone wants to take a crack at this who has a more experence then me.. PLEASE DO. There is about 40,000 people with this stupid problem and they've all gone nuts..
PS Installing the Widcomm stack does not resolve this problem either.. I spent a week trying too get that @#$%#$%@# thing to work correctly on my wizard.

Well I am prepared to donate USD $100 towards costs to anyone who can develop a working solution, I think other people here also would donate towards a working product.
Thanks for the info and work so far

NRGZ28 said:
I believe the GPS units (as well as many car stereos, including mine) actually use the Handsfree profile to send these commands back and forth. The jetware extension has a logging mode where you can see a huge log of all these commands that go on between the phone and unit (whatever it may be). Would it be possible to adapt your application to talk over the handsfree profile ? I think the way jetware did it, is they put a dll between the audiogateway on the phone and device, to intercept all the communication.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If i could get a copy of that log it would help trememndously.

I'll send it in a minute.

Guys, any update on this?

Dev request: simple 'button board'

Hello Developers,
I want to use my old magician to build into my car.
I am driving (for those who want to know) a Renault 5 GT Turbo, and building it purely for fun. I like to experiment with electronics, so injection system is used, and also a PDA with Zeitronic software to manage some data from the car.
What I want to do is be able to start the car with the PDA, or ignition the car, and other things likt boostcontrol (just on/off), lights, rev limiter, etc. All is just on-off switched.
Just being able to control six or eight Relays, via the touchscreen. Starting must be with a sort of PIN code. So is there a way to control 8 relays via usb-cable (must be charging all the time!).
And anyone an Idea or wants to put something together? If it includes some donations, willing to do so with some fun input!

Check out Arduino Board.
Not sure if you can hook it up to PDA, but might be interesting to you.
larna

Riel said:
What I want to do is be able to start the car with the PDA, or ignition the car, and other things likt boostcontrol (just on/off), lights, rev limiter, etc. All is just on-off switched.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wow!
This would be amazing!
PS: If you finally reach your target, let us know and share some videos!

Thanx! Well, just see it as if I got 8 ON/OFF switches on my dashboard.
I just need the program here to give an output to the USB port. So I hook up those signals to a relayboard. Those relays set the ignition, or start the engine, etc.

I don't know much, but I think you need a serial port not usb. However with some simple electronic audio filters I think it would be possible to control almost any number of relays via the audio output. You would need some software on the phone that played an audio signal whenever a button on the screen was pressed, I am thinking mortbuttons could do this. Then you would need a set of audio filters tuned to each exact frequency which would in turn switch your relays via a power transistor.
I like the sound of your idea, if you get it on the road it would mean that any PPC could be used to switch on anything. Think about the whistling key finders you can get, the same principal. Would be nice to see your progress in the future, good luck with it.
Edit: you could even do it via bluetooth this way, taking the sound from a bt headset!

Problem is, I have totally no idea of programming

Was thinking about this and had a simpler idea but only if you've got a ppc with infra red port, which if I remember correctly the Magician has. If you had all you need is some remote control software, which there is a huge choice of fully configurable stuff with learning ability something like this: http://www.pdawin.com/tvremote.html , then you just need an infra red remote control switch board like this one on ebay: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/RF-Wireless-R...hash=item250271194147&_trksid=p3286.m14.l1318
and you pretty much would have what you want!
Edit: Damn just noticed that one is RF not IR. But I know IR ones are available.

Bluetooth Quick Connect / Favorites Today Plugin and/or Command-line app

I'm a Desktop .Net developer with NO bluetooth experience and only a bit of low-level networking experience so I'm speaking from limited knowledge, but not complete ignorance.
I use my phone as an A2DP source and AVRCP client for quite a few devices (Jabra JX20 Pura, Jabra BT3030, Windows Vista, various BT speaker systems) and Alpine BT300) around my house, garage, car, and on the go. They all work wonderfully (some have better range than others, some better sound), but using any of them presents a couple common issues.
Some devices (like my car), constantly seek out the last paired device until they connect, while most of the other require a connection to be initiated from the phone. The phone doesn't care which is around or has the best signal, just which one successfully connects first.
I'd like an app that could have profiles setup which would let me control certain variables OR at a more basic function (see below):
Bluetooth Profile
Device Priority
Minimum Strength (to be used when more than one device has the same priority)
That would be my ultimate goal, but in the meantime I'd be happy with something as simple as a command line app that could be bound to a key or shortcut which would try to connect to a predefined list of BT MACs for a given profile and stop when the first one connects successfully. Variations on this might allow a connection attempt to a specific device instead of a list. This way I could have StartMenu or Today shortcuts.
The point here is largely to have to avoid nagivigating all the menus needed to initiate an A2DP connection, but I'm sure there are MANY other uses people would find.
If someone could point me in the right direction (I'm researching already of course) to the namespace(s) and or class(es) in .Net 2 or newer which would allow me to enumerate and/or initiate connections, this may be something I could bring to the community (assuming it doesn't already exist, and I have asked MANY times).
I've created a poll also to see what kind of interest is out there for this software and how much support I might receive.

I've been knocking an app up to suit my own personal A2DP needs... and a lot of yours by the look of things ;-) Things it does:
Kinetic scrolling finger friendly list of A2DP devices known to your phone (tap to select then tap again to attempt connection).
Toolbar buttons indicating active A2DP connection status (tap to disconnect active connection).
Bluetooth devices applet shortcut.
Switch bluetooth on (a good few of my devices need the phone to be discoverable so the app forces the phone to be discoverable at all times *blush*).
Switch bluetooth off.
Shortcut to program launcher list (automatically displays this list when you initiate a connection to a selected device... and there's items to display in the list of course).
Command line access (via secondary exe) allowing you to attempt connection (to a named , the last connected or first found device) and disconnect an active A2DP connection. I've only really tested the named device connection but the other 2 modes *should* work
QVGA / VGA and orientation aware.
I've been wanting to work towards getting it up on XDA... but time constraints (and a baby on the way ) have gotten in the way and it's unlikely I'll have the time to do it for a good while. I'd be happy to pass on the code to someone willing to take it further if that's any use. It's written (very quickly!) in VB.net BTW.
It uses a few bits and bobs from other people though:
A2DPToggle's "a2dp.exe" to handle initiating a connection.
Icons from lord only knows where I found them.
The kinetic list code found on here (http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=333124&highlight=klist). IIRC, I used the gingercat updated version and tweaked it to my own needs. There's many a kludge I've put in to the code to get things working quick-smart (D-Pad navigation mainly).
InTheHand 32feet.NET libraries (http://inthehand.com/content/32feet.aspx). These work with MS Bluetooth stack only.
So permission from the respective folks above would be needed before releasing it into the wild I guess.
Here's a screeny

Hey great tool! When I click a device will it auto connect or only open the BT Explorer and will it work with Broadcom BT Stack? Thanks

Oops, meant to say it's been developed for the MS bluetooth stack only. Sorry about that.
When you attempt to connect to a device it first checks the device is reachable and only then attempts to initiate an A2DP connection.

Northernmost said:
I've been knocking an app up to suit my own personal A2DP needs... and a lot of yours by the look of things ;-) Things it does:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Absolutely. I can get around in VB.Net and C# just fine. If you don't want to publish the code publicly, PM me your email address and I'll invite you to my Sharepoint site (easiest way I know to share files and manage communique), otherwise attach here.
It sounds like you've already covered 99% of what I was looking for, but I'd be more than happy to do what I can to more the idea forward, even taking suggestions from others in this thread.
About the BT stack, I'm running a Vogue with a ROM cooked in PPCKitchen, how do I determine which stack I'm running and can that be changed?

rainabba said:
About the BT stack, I'm running a Vogue with a ROM cooked in PPCKitchen, how do I determine which stack I'm running and can that be changed?
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Click to collapse
I've no idea what stack Vogues come with but the MS stack device list looks like the attachment below. If yours looks the same it's the MS one. I guess the Vogue forum should have any info on swapping stacks if it's possible.

Sounds like I found the correct people to answer my question about BT. Is there a way / how can I: enable my Mogul 6800 phone to transmit the sound that would normally go through the speaker to my BT headset in order to listen to streaming audio from the net using Kinoma Play which goes out and picks up all sorts of "radio programs" , i.e. not using a direct URL. I am also not able to listen to audio files from the Audio Recorder through anything except the speaker, even not through a head phone. Do I need to download a program or set up my phone differently. I currently have Titan WM6.1 Build 20755 GPS kitchen from PPC Geeks. Thanks so much for your help.

jminor4326 said:
Sounds like I found the correct people to answer my question about BT. Is there a way / how can I: enable my Mogul 6800 phone to transmit the sound that would normally go through the speaker to my BT headset in order to listen to streaming audio from the net using Kinoma Play which goes out and picks up all sorts of "radio programs" , i.e. not using a direct URL. I am also not able to listen to audio files from the Audio Recorder through anything except the speaker, even not through a head phone. Do I need to download a program or set up my phone differently. I currently have Titan WM6.1 Build 20755 GPS kitchen from PPC Geeks. Thanks so much for your help.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You need an A2DP capable device (high quality), connected, THEN start your audio program OR use a program called Audio Gateway with a basic Bluetooth headset (low quality audio).

thank you very much.

Northernmost, how about that source code? If you want to pass it along less privately than a post here, PM me and I'll provide a solution (source control, WSS, etc.)

Sent you a PM the other day. Let's go the private way for now.