I defragged my SD and the performance gain was considerable. Is there any program that can defrag the main memory or the Storage?
i used my cardreader, but i think that's diffrent :?
Defragmenting flash or SD memory is useless since every address on the chip has the same access time. Defragmentation only makes sense with devices like hard disks, where the relative location of data plays a role.
is there any way of defragmenting the device itself not the SD card
Dandie said:
Defragmenting flash or SD memory is useless since every address on the chip has the same access time. Defragmentation only makes sense with devices like hard disks, where the relative location of data plays a role.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not quite sure I understand your response. Using Pocket Mechanic, I can format the SD card with FAT16 or FAT32. Both file systems can become fragmented...
BTW, Pocket Mechanic can defragment the internal storage memory (if you rename it to something other than "Storage" - it seems to have a problem with the default Magician file name), but NOT the main memory file system.
stevedebi said:
Dandie said:
Defragmenting flash or SD memory is useless since every address on the chip has the same access time. Defragmentation only makes sense with devices like hard disks, where the relative location of data plays a role.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not quite sure I understand your response. Using Pocket Mechanic, I can format the SD card with FAT16 or FAT32. Both file systems can become fragmented...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, they can become fragmented, even NTFS can get fragmented although MS designed it not to. But that is besides the point, as pointed out before. Defragmenting can speed up (and mechanically relieve) all devices that use mechanical means to retrieve the data. On a hard disk there are tracks kind of like on an old vinyl audio media. Fragmentation in this context means you want to listen to track 1,3,7,9 and 11. So you have to lift the needle after each track and reposition it. Same happens when a hard disk wants to read a file smeared across multiple tracks on the disk platter. It reads some part, then has ro reposition the head and keep reading. Defragmenting puts the data of one file into one long track so the time needed for positioning is eiliminated. In the analogy that would be pressing a new vinyl disk that only contains the tracks desired (1,3,7,9,11) just one after another. You won't have to lift the needle anymore.
This is the theory. But for memory chips (all kinds, be it RAM, ROM, USB-Sticks, SD-Cards, ..., any storage media with NO MOVING Parts) this is not applicable. When the system wants File A it looks in the File Table where that file is located. Then it gets a list of positions and starts requesting the contents of these positions from the card device. The access time to any of these positions is exactly the same. Go back to the audio comparison. For a vinyl disk you have to lift and reposition the needle if you selectively want to hear certain songs only. If you had the same album on a MP3 player or other device you can arrange your playlist and no matter in which order or position the tracks are the time until the player starts playing them is the same.
Hope that clears it up. I am actually not too sure why the PocketMechanic author has put in Defragmentation. It does not make sense to me. Maybe on FAT devices there is a slight advantage to having the files en bloc because that way their position data is more compact (just START-END or something as opposed to START1-END1 ... START2-END2 ...) but I am not sure about this. Even if this was the case your only gain would be a few bytes of SPACE not TIME.
Takes ages too to defragment a SD-card. So if you insist in defragmenting you'd better put your SD in a card-reader & transfer the contents to your harddisk, format the card if you like (faster than deleting) or delete everything & transfer everything back.
M
STAY AWAY from defragging flash memory!!!
1.) This doesn't help anything, it won't be faster. Flash memory is adressed directly (like already said) and doesn't need to be defragged.
2.) If you want (for whatever reason) the files to be in one piece (that's what defragging does) on the flash memory, simply copy the contents of the card to the PCs harddisk, reformat the card and copy the stuff back on. This has the same result as defragging.
3.) Defragging will destroy you card! Flash memory has a limited amoung of read/write cycles before the will die someday. It's unlikely you'll ever see that in real life use because read/write cycles are used faithfully by PPCs. However defragging uses an insane amount of read/write cycles since data is read and written so often from one point to another that it will shorten the lifetime of the card noticeably.
I don't know why defragging of flash memory is offered at all, it's no good at all and only damages the cards in the long run. But maybe it's a feature that has to be "there".
Wow, I never knew that. :!: I had been faithfully defragging my SD once every few months; I am going to stop doing that.
Always learn something new around here! 8)
Well, best is to use that format method and move the contents to the PC and after formating the flash memory card copy the stuff back on. This has the same effect as defraggin, takes much less time (since defraggin flash mem in a PPC is not that fast at all) and has no negative effect on the lifetime. I tend to do that once in 2-3 month. But the speed gain is not even worth mentioning, it's basically nonexistant.
Related
Hi
I bought a kingston 512mb sd, but my xdaII is reporting it as a 483,55 mb size...
I already tried to format it with FAT32 but didn't solve it
any idea ?
thanks!
Memory
I ain't no IT guru but this much I know.
There's this memory mystery which has been around that I tried reading about before however after attempting to digest the article I'd rather it remained a mystery.
:mrgreen:
It's normal Bro. Hopefully some expert will provide a proper explanation for you. In the mean time I hope you can take my word for it.
Here's a screenshot of my 512MB SD card memory.
The main reason for the difference in size is this, even though your SD is a "memory" card, your PPC treats it like a disk drive - you format it with a FAT file system.
FAT stands for File Allocation Table, meaning that there is a table stored on the media (just like on a hard drive or floppy drive) that stores the location of the files on the media so they can be located quickly and easily, since files are not stored contiguously. Think of it as an index.
The larger the media, the larger the FAT. For instance, the following are my SD cards and their FAT sizes: 128MB/8MB; 256MB/16MB; 512MB/32MB; 1GB/58MB.
HTH
argh
:shock:
How didn't remember that ? :roll:
You know, the card was so much expensive than i wanted to pay, that when i tested it, i just felt reaaaaallly mad!
(i was just thinking how much does 29mb cost!)
thanks for the replys and fast help!
Actually, there was a patch, that allowed to use the space, that is not physically taken by FAT32: FAT32 reserves 32b for each possible catalog. If your catalogs are only, for instance, 12b long - you don't need resting 20b, but it's reserved by FAT, so you can't store anything there! The bigger storage you have, the more it reserves! The patch allowes you use the spase unless it's physically taken.
I'll try to find the patch till the end of the week and post it.
PS: you can also format your card in FAT16 or even FAT8 - both will take less space!
big fat making diet
that would be great! thanks!
Oops
Oops!
So the memory mystery don't apply in this huh?
Sorry hbatista for giving wrong info.
Thanks guys for the enlightenment.
The other reason is some retailers claim 512 megabytes, however their megabyte is 1000kb whereas we are used to the idea that a megabyte is 1024kb.
Kignston explanation
Hi
Before i posted to this forum i contacted kigston and here their explanation:
"Dear Mr. Batista,
Regarding your below request:
The fact that your flashcard shows about 6% less of its capacity is quite normal and the following will try to explain why:
When formatted to a specific file system, storage devices such as the Kingston flash card SD/512 "loose" a small amount of capacity because this is used by the file system to store file system information. Operating systems (such as Windows, for instance) will format using 1K=1024 bytes rather than 1K=1000 bytes resulting in some residual loss of capacity.
SD technology comes with a security feature that enables manufacturers to add specific hardware controlled security features for their software when stored on an SD card. More information regarding this can be obtained from the SDA (Secure Digital Association) at http://www.sdcard.org. Furthermore a so-called "OS overhead" exists, where the operation system stores OS specific data on the storage device. The overhead varies between different OS.
An overall overhead of 29MB is well within limits and you will find that it will be the normal amount of overhead for the SD/512 for your OS.
You can observe the same effect for all your other storage devices, especially hard drives.
Usually the reduction of available data is in the range of 2%-7%. You can try and replace the card at your point of purchase, if you feel that the problem is related to a defect of the card rather than the above phenomenon, however it is most likely that the replacement will show the same capacity.
Regards"
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi guys, since i am getting my DOPOD U1000 this week, i want to know where is the best place to install my program and store my music and photo.
I have purchase a 4GB mini SDHC. Compare to the micro drive, which one should i use to install my program. (which one is faster?)
For music & movie, i think i will store it in Micro Drive. How about photos? Will there be delays if i store the photo taken by camera in Micro drive? or is it better to store in SDHC?
Thank
I had the Samsung SGH-i300. Nice WM Smartphone with 4 GB micro drive....it drains the battery like a starving beast. With improvements in technology, things should be a little better now, but don't expect too much, hence 128 ROM & 256 RAM (for regularly used apps and accessed files).
Micro drive will drain your battery severely. Best way to look at it is this way; put the files that you will most frequently access on your SDHC card and larger files like movies on your micro drive.
Photos? Difficult one really. Personally, I have two categories of photos; Newly taken ones which I want to see regularly for a while + Wallpapers etc [store these on SD card]
Older collection of Photos/Albums- occasional use but important to me personally th have always available [Store these on Micro Drive]
Movies and Music and PC data for various reasons [Micro Drive]
Regularly used apps not installed to default device location [SD Card]
Don't forget the micro drive is mechanical and therefore drains battery power more that's why it's good to use SD card for heavy use.
mackaby007 said:
I had the Samsung SGH-i300. Nice WM Smartphone with 4 GB micro drive....it drains the battery like a starving beast. With improvements in technology, things should be a little better now, but don't expect too much, hence 128 ROM & 256 RAM (for regularly used apps and accessed files).
Micro drive will drain your battery severely. Best way to look at it is this way; put the files that you will most frequently access on your SDHC card and larger files like movies on your micro drive.
Photos? Difficult one really. Personally, I have two categories of photos; Newly taken ones which I want to see regularly for a while + Wallpapers etc [store these on SD card]
Older collection of Photos/Albums- occasional use but important to me personally th have always available [Store these on Micro Drive]
Movies and Music and PC data for various reasons [Micro Drive]
Regularly used apps not installed to default device location [SD Card]
Don't forget the micro drive is mechanical and therefore drains battery power more that's why it's good to use SD card for heavy use.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks mackaby007, that answer every single of my question. Will indeed follow the above setup when my device is here
wu5262 said:
Thanks mackaby007, that answer every single of my question. Will indeed follow the above setup when my device is here
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
hi
if device hanging and must hard reset it, which drive will be formatted?
Micro Drive or Memory or ram or all ?
tanX
Arya said:
hi
if device hanging and must hard reset it, which drive will be formatted?
Micro Drive or Memory or ram or all ?
tanX
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
only the ram in device is clear, micro drive and mini sd will stay un-touch. Of course , there is a function that you can format the micro alone as well
wu5262 said:
only the ram in device is clear, micro drive and mini sd will stay un-touch. Of course , there is a function that you can format the micro alone as well
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
tanX a lot
with this thing we must install programs on which? beacuse if a program have problem we must reset and formatting and other information(music,videoand..) willl be deleted!!!!
Arya said:
tanX a lot
with this thing we must install programs on which? beacuse if a program have problem we must reset and formatting and other information(music,videoand..) willl be deleted!!!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
see above post:
Program you use a lot, everyday! (on device memory)
Program you use sometimes, (on sd card)
Music and Video (on micro drive)
Flash photo (sd card)
Old photo (move to micro drive)
Hope that help
wu5262 said:
see above post:
Program you use a lot, everyday! (on device memory)
Program you use sometimes, (on sd card)
Music and Video (on micro drive)
Flash photo (sd card)
Old photo (move to micro drive)
Hope that help
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
tanX a lot
Big Post people....run now if u hate long posts.
Arya said:
tanX a lot:
with this thing we must install programs on which? beacuse if a program have problem we must reset and formatting and other information(music,videoand..) willl be deleted!!!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Also Arya, don't forget that we're talking about WM5 here. There will likely not be many problems if you were using the same apps on a previous WM5 PPC.
Personally I will set up as follows:
1) Only install apps which have proved to be no probs in over 3 months of use, prior to getting the X7500.
2) Test each app for only 10-15 minutes with a couple of soft resets and whilst other apps run in background.
3) No more than essential apps initially (don't even want a X7500 if it can't run this).
4) These apps for me are: Batti v2.0, WA2, Resco Photo Viewer, Total Commander, Coreplayer (or TCPMP) and PocketMusic. Providing these work without issue for 15 minutes - 60 minutes, I do a Full backup with Spb Backup. Then I do a contacts backup using Spb Backup. Then I have my primary set-up to revert to if things go wrong as I install other apps in the future.
5) This should really come before the backup. Ensure UMTS connects and disconnects as it should and that my primary Wi-fi is protected (secured) and my sim contacts have been saved to my outlook contacts.
6)That's the basics. Then transfer all 'storage data' like Movies, Music and occasionally accessed Photos to Micro-Drive. Also PC data to be used in other places other than home or work can also be stored here.
7) Personal Ring-tone folder - SD Card
8) Regularly accessed Photos and recently taken Photos - SD Card...Why?...because I often take my SD card to transfer photos to mine and other PC's. If the X7500 has mass storage capabilities due to USB host capabilities, then this may change to Micro-Drive only, but that means I always have to walk with a lead. (No thanks - the X75 is big enough)
9)Before -all games to SD card...Now - all games to device unless they exceed 15mb.
10)Backup Device and have duplicate copy of personalized file structure and folders on Micro Drive, just in case.
I should now have 3 Backups:
1) Primary backup - Essential apps with everything working beautifully.
2) Contacts backup - make a scheduled backup of this once a week to include new additions and replace last Contacts backup.
3)Big Backup - Final and fully loaded Device backup including SD card and micr drive Backup.
Lastly should have been first. Play with original ROM without 3rd party apps for at least 48 hours (however many days it takes to achieve the hours). Why?..to ensure you are happy with the ROM before you go through all this work.
Remember the device backup is not transferable to other ROMs, nor will applications that were installed to SD card or Micro drive. Hence the reason why I put 'storage data' on the micro drive and SD card, because it can be used again.
Then I just install whatever whenever, without fear of a total rebuild.
Not least of all, be prepared to do it all over again when WM6 becomes available for the X7500.
And yes I'll be doing it - can live without Video calling.
Sorry for the long post people, but I hope someone finds it useful as it has taken me years to get a system that gives me no problems at all.....but that's exactly what I always end up with after all the problems have been resolved and tweaks applied...a device to die for. Not literally.
mackaby007 said:
Also Arya, don't forget that we're talking about WM5 here. There will likely not be many problems if you were using the same apps on a previous WM5 PPC.
Personally I will set up as follows:
1) Only install apps which have proved to be no probs in over 3 months of use, prior to getting the X7500.
2) Test each app for only 10-15 minutes with a couple of soft resets and whilst other apps run in background.
3) No more than essential apps initially (don't even want a X7500 if it can't run this).
4) These apps for me are: Batti v2.0, WA2, Resco Photo Viewer, Total Commander, Coreplayer (or TCPMP) and PocketMusic. Providing these work without issue for 15 minutes - 60 minutes, I do a Full backup with Spb Backup. Then I do a contacts backup using Spb Backup. Then I have my primary set-up to revert to if things go wrong as I install other apps in the future.
5) This should really come before the backup. Ensure UMTS connects and disconnects as it should and that my primary Wi-fi is protected (secured) and my sim contacts have been saved to my outlook contacts.
6)That's the basics. Then transfer all 'storage data' like Movies, Music and occasionally accessed Photos to Micro-Drive. Also PC data to be used in other places other than home or work can also be stored here.
7) Personal Ring-tone folder - SD Card
8) Regularly accessed Photos and recently taken Photos - SD Card...Why?...because I often take my SD card to transfer photos to mine and other PC's. If the X7500 has mass storage capabilities due to USB host capabilities, then this may change to Micro-Drive only, but that means I always have to walk with a lead. (No thanks - the X75 is big enough)
9)Before -all games to SD card...Now - all games to device unless they exceed 15mb.
10)Backup Device and have duplicate copy of personalized file structure and folders on Micro Drive, just in case.
I should now have 3 Backups:
1) Primary backup - Essential apps with everything working beautifully.
2) Contacts backup - make a scheduled backup of this once a week to include new additions and replace last Contacts backup.
3)Big Backup - Final and fully loaded Device backup including SD card and micr drive Backup.
Lastly should have been first. Play with original ROM without 3rd party apps for at least 48 hours (however many days it takes to achieve the hours). Why?..to ensure you are happy with the ROM before you go through all this work.
Remember the device backup is not transferable to other ROMs, nor will applications that were installed to SD card or Micro drive. Hence the reason why I put 'storage data' on the micro drive and SD card, because it can be used again.
Then I just install whatever whenever, without fear of a total rebuild.
Not least of all, be prepared to do it all over again when WM6 becomes available for the X7500.
And yes I'll be doing it - can live without Video calling.
Sorry for the long post people, but I hope someone finds it useful as it has taken me years to get a system that gives me no problems at all.....but that's exactly what I always end up with after all the problems have been resolved and tweaks applied...a device to die for. Not literally.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
your informations are very good and i hope every one use it
tanX a lot too
I have a 2GB Trancend 80x MiniSD and ran the speed benchmark test using SK Tools. Here's the result :
Storage Card (write); 535.28;KB/sec
Storage Card (read); 875.84;KB/sec
MicroDrive (write);14733.81;KB/sec
MicroDrive (read);11792.71;KB/sec
Storage card wins hands down as expected.
k_kirk said:
I have a 2GB Trancend 80x MiniSD and ran the speed benchmark test using SK Tools. Here's the result :
Storage Card (write); 535.28;KB/sec
Storage Card (read); 875.84;KB/sec
MicroDrive (write);14733.81;KB/sec
MicroDrive (read);11792.71;KB/sec
Storage card wins hands down as expected.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
sorry i am a bit confuse here, i though the bigger value is better, so storage card can write 535.28 Kb per second where micro drive can write 14733.81 Kb per second. Or am i wrong here?
Yeah, that's how I'm reading those values.
Guys, you're absolutely right ofcourse. Its 12:38AM here and I think I should go to sleep. Playing with the new U1000 for 8 hours flat I think I am starting to loose it. Thanks for setting the record straight...
k_kirk said:
I have a 2GB Trancend 80x MiniSD and ran the speed benchmark test using SK Tools. Here's the result :
Storage Card (write); 535.28;KB/sec
Storage Card (read); 875.84;KB/sec
MicroDrive (write);14733.81;KB/sec
MicroDrive (read);11792.71;KB/sec
Storage card wins hands down as expected.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi k_Kik,
Could I seek the following clarification?
How was your card formatted?
- Do you back up the FAT table?
- Is it with FAT32 ?
- What was your cluster size?
Also, SK tools seems to always give a very good reading for the first test, then have a drastically lowered reading from second test onward (That has been my observation). Is your reading the first one or the second one onward? Also, the reading differs drastically depending on the above settings used to format the card. My own test shows the following: (All FAT 32 formatting and without FAT table backup)
Cluster size----1st write--1st read----subsequent write/read
0.5K---------- 13.26KB/s--798KB/s---not tested
1K------------15.76-------931------not tested
2K------------238---------930------not tested
4K------------264---------931 -----not tested
8K------------518---------931-------270/922-- 266/922
16K---------- 490---------911------235/748----232/688
32K----------518---------950------241/701------240/708----243/720
I also tested with FAT table backup as a formatting setting, and got the following result
32k---------144---------821-------91/750
My card is a class 4 4GB miniSDHC card made by Toshiba, manufactured in Japan.
It appears that in my case the best performance that SKtools would report comes from FAT32 with no FAT table backup, and cluster size of 32KB. Is your card formatted with the same setting?
Where do you guys usually install your apps to? Are there any benefits in installing to the Storage Card vs. installing in the internal memory of the phone?
Is the phone faster if all apps are installed on the storage card?
some apps definitely would not respond well if you install it in the storage card, especially if the app needs to 'wake up' from the power standby, due to the battery saving mode for external storage.
with X1, the phone storage is plenty that it doesn't make any difference for you to install in phone storage versus external. Upon fresh hardreset, my phone would have at least 204MB after deleting away the demo videos, etc. And this is standard ROM, not custom ROM.
Tri3Dent said:
Where do you guys usually install your apps to? Are there any benefits in installing to the Storage Card vs. installing in the internal memory of the phone?
Is the phone faster if all apps are installed on the storage card?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The truth is that it is "horses for courses"
If you regard the device as a phone with a bit of residual computer capability, then 300Mb of Storage will last a lifetime
If you regard it as a computer with a phone segment attached, then use the SD card for everything you can. The tnyynt SD tweak for speeding card access is brilliant to the point where I am unable to tell the practical difference between Storage and card use.
I use mine as a work computer with a phone attached. My 16Gb card is already 55% full (ie. just under 9Gb of data and programs) - this cannot fit in Storage.
man what kind of programs and data that you have that takes over 8 gigs on your phone.
music and videos i can understand, programs and data???? i got a 4 gig card and the only program that i have that takes up 1 gig is the maps for tomtom 7.910
hopefully the 32 gig card will be compatable with the x1 in the near future.
c_legaspi said:
man what kind of programs and data that you have that takes over 8 gigs on your phone.
music and videos i can understand, programs and data???? i got a 4 gig card and the only program that i have that takes up 1 gig is the maps for tomtom 7.910
hopefully the 32 gig card will be compatable with the x1 in the near future.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
OK, well 1) as I said, my device is used as a computer with a phone segment attached, so having >8Gb "on my phone" is not really accurate. I have >8Gb on my card (ie. HDD) and growing
2) Music and video ?? None of them, I use hifi and TV for those when I'm home
3) I use the device for geological/geotechnical mapping on a world-wide basis, together with CAD/3D modeling of collected and supplied data. So high-level topo data, drillhole data, outcrop data, survey data, engineering constraints, zillions of reference reports etc etc + the slew of large programs needed to run these data collections
So for me, smaller, faster ROM = better and better
4) you bet I'm hanging out for the 32Gb cards
problem with having too little phone storage is some program use storage as temp
currently i have about 40gb storage free but still
the comic book reader crash often because the .net program in question
unzip the whole comic to some temp dir in phone storage
when it operates and apparently the comic use more then 40gb
would be easy for the programmer to fix so it didn't unzip all or did it to
the sd card but..
I put pretty much all programs that can be installed onto the card on the card... I also have shedloads of files on there mainly for language learning (I am learning Chinese and also have some Russian stuff)... from 16gb I am down to 7.7 and thats only cos I deleted a few tv shows from China...
PS I am reposting this due to the deletion bug thing... I did have a longer post but cant remeber all my witty reply...
flip a coin
I have the TMOUSA version, but I think this question would apply to all versions, and in fact to other phones as well.
I was just re-reading the excellent guide to storage card optimization by the great Windows Mobile guru (and XDA member) who writes under the name Menneisys:
http://www.smartphonemag.com/cms/forum/topic/17921?&TOPIC_ID=17921
That article was written a few years ago, though, with older WM versions, and older storage cards.
I am wondering if the info is still relevant, to a new phone like the HD2, with WM 6.5 and Sense, and the newer storage cards?
The 16MB storage card that comes with the HD2, although the newer SDHC type, is only Class 2, therefore relatively slow, compared to Class 4 and Class 6 cards. I am wondering if using any of the tweaks suggested in the article by Menneisys would speed up the card.
For instance, changing from FAT32 to FAT16? (FAT16 is really ancient now though, don't know if it would work well at all on newer cards and devices.)
Eliminating the FAT backup?
Also, by changing to a larger cluster size? (Which of course, would reduce the storage space, by adding more slack. But would it speed up the card's performance enough to make it worth it?)
Of course defragmentation is always a good idea, with any disk or card, old or new. That part of his advice is not in question, then or now.
But I am wondering about the other stuff--like changing to FAT16, eliminating the FAT backup, and changing the cluster size?
Anyone know? (Menneisys, are you reading? Others?)
Thank you.
well, without reading the link, (i'll save that till the kids are in bed) i can say that fat16 can't address 16gb, however re the cluster size, yes, that can deff help, especially if you have lots of fairly large files. if your card is mostly music images and video, then you can deff benefit from setting the size as large as it will go. it does mean tiny files will take up a whole block, of course, but if its mostly big files then go for it.
samsamuel said:
well, without reading the link, (i'll save that till the kids are in bed) i can say that fat16 can't address 16gb, however re the cluster size, yes, that can deff help, especially if you have lots of fairly large files. if your card is mostly music images and video, then you can deff benefit from setting the size as large as it will go. it does mean tiny files will take up a whole block, of course, but if its mostly big files then go for it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Very interesting article. Yes, do read it when you have a chance.
Yes, probably SDHC cards did not exist at the time of the article, nothing larger than 2 GB. So, sounds like the FAT16 option is out for current cards.
Do you know if that option of formatting a card with "no FAT backup" still makes sense on current cards? Is it a risky thing to do?
Regarding the cluster size-- most of us probably have both small and large files, not only one or the other. So, it is a trade-off between speed and storage space. What cluster size do you think is a good balance between the two?
never read anything about fat backup, so i couldn't say. as for block size, i use 16k on a 2gb card, which has 1gb of music and about 300meg images.
i would say the lost space is negligible on sdcards, even if you have a thousand 1k files, you only waste 16meg, so that's maybe 1/2 an mp3 album,, its only really an issue when dealing with hundreds of gig hard disks with tens of thousands of tiny system and program files. (just checked mine, theres only 250 files smaller than 32k, and only 120 less than 5k)
course, its a matter of preference, and i'm sure there are loads of people will say i'm wasting space and should be disowned from the community,, hehe
samsamuel said:
never read anything about fat backup, so i couldn't say. as for block size, i use 16k on a 2gb card, which has 1gb of music and about 300meg images.
i would say the lost space is negligible on sdcards, even if you have a thousand 1k files, you only waste 16meg, so that's maybe 1/2 an mp3 album,, its only really an issue when dealing with hundreds of gig hard disks with tens of thousands of tiny system and program files. (just checked mine, theres only 250 files smaller than 32k, and only 120 less than 5k)
course, its a matter of preference, and i'm sure there are loads of people will say i'm wasting space and should be disowned from the community,, hehe
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Read the Menneisys article, and he says it makes the card run a lot faster, to eliminate the FAT backup. (Something you can do with SK Tools.)
However, I would wonder if that would make the card less stable, more prone to data loss. Or, even whether a non-standard cluster size might make the card more flaky?
does wm 6.5 support exfat?
using 16G thumbdrive on win 7, exfat is wayyyy faster than ntfs.
I used the 8GB card at the beginning, switched then to a 16GB card class 6 and then to 32 GB class 2 and din´t find the slightest dfifference in speed, neither when recording videos with the cam in max resolution.
me said:
Read the Menneisys article, and he says it makes the card run a lot faster, to eliminate the FAT backup. (Something you can do with SK Tools.)
However, I would wonder if that would make the card less stable, more prone to data loss. Or, even whether a non-standard cluster size might make the card more flaky?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
lets take a step back and think about what the FAT backup is. i believe it is another table that mirrors the contents of the primary table. essentially, it can be used to recover your file system table in case the primary backup is corrupted/lost. now lets think about WHEN this table is read. to the best of my knowledge, the backup is read ONLY if the primary is found to be corrupted. similarly, the backup is UPDATED/WRITTEN only when the primary is UPDATED/WRITTEN.
thus, any speed gain due to disabling the backup should be seen in WRITE operations ONLY. read speed should be not be affected by that tweak. i could be wrong though!
if i am correct, then try disabling the backup if you desire write speed. however, you will lose some of the "robustness" of the file system. and FAT (and its variants like FAT12, FAT16, FAT32) are already fairly fragile file systems.
regarding cluster sizes, a smaller cluster size means LESS wastage when having many SMALL files. a larger cluster size means MORE wastage when having many SMALL files. however, a smaller cluster size means MORE clusters to address, which means a LARGER allocation table, which means MORE TIME spent looking up/updating the table's contents. conversely, a larger cluster size means LESS clusters to address, which means a SMALLER allocation table, which means LESS TIME spent looking up/updating the table's contents. so the sweet spot would be somewhere in the middle. HOWEVER, most modern operating systems load the allocation table in MEMORY so i imagine the speed gain would be negligible. the fact that the table is managed in memory and periodically updated back to the disk is the reason behind most corruptions in a non-journaling file system like FAT.
i've over simplified things a bit, but it should give you an idea of what kind of gains to expect by such tweaking (i.e. little to none in my opinion!).
Again, I'd suggest reading the Menneisys article.
ASCIIker said:
lets take a step back and think about what the FAT backup is. i believe it is another table that mirrors the contents of the primary table. essentially, it can be used to recover your file system table in case the primary backup is corrupted/lost. now lets think about WHEN this table is read. to the best of my knowledge, the backup is read ONLY if the primary is found to be corrupted. similarly, the backup is UPDATED/WRITTEN only when the primary is UPDATED/WRITTEN.
thus, any speed gain due to disabling the backup should be seen in WRITE operations ONLY. read speed should be not be affected by that tweak. i could be wrong though!
if i am correct, then try disabling the backup if you desire write speed. however, you will lose some of the "robustness" of the file system. and FAT (and its variants like FAT12, FAT16, FAT32) are already fairly fragile file systems.
regarding cluster sizes, a smaller cluster size means LESS wastage when having many SMALL files. a larger cluster size means MORE wastage when having many SMALL files. however, a smaller cluster size means MORE clusters to address, which means a LARGER allocation table, which means MORE TIME spent looking up/updating the table's contents. conversely, a larger cluster size means LESS clusters to address, which means a SMALLER allocation table, which means LESS TIME spent looking up/updating the table's contents. so the sweet spot would be somewhere in the middle. HOWEVER, most modern operating systems load the allocation table in MEMORY so i imagine the speed gain would be negligible. the fact that the table is managed in memory and periodically updated back to the disk is the reason behind most corruptions in a non-journaling file system like FAT.
i've over simplified things a bit, but it should give you an idea of what kind of gains to expect by such tweaking (i.e. little to none in my opinion!).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
These tests might be of some interest to you.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=756781&highlight=card+speed+test
I was trying to fix my friend's evo and so I formatted my sd card to try to boot his, but when I put it back in my phone I realized mine was partitioned to run apps off of it so I had to reinstall apps. I did not re partition it. Not sure why some say they are installed on the sd card and some on the phone, but it is running much faster with no lag. It's no big deal, but I imagine running apps off the sd card really lags. But I did think it needed to be partitioned unless the Kings Shooter Rom can do it without partitioning. Maybe it wasn't partitioned before, but I could have swarn I had 1gb for apps.
Depends on your card class mines a class 6 but reads faster since I use SD booster to add a 2048 cache and my speeds are really high 11.5mbps write and 30.5mbps read so I notice no lag except on boot while my card has to mount and load once it mounts all my apps on the partition load in less than 30 seconds u.can use the app SD tools to find out your cards class and read/write speed
Sent from my Classic-EViLizED-ToMAToFiED-EVo4g-
-EViL-KoNCEPTz- said:
Depends on your card class mines a class 6 but reads faster since I use SD booster to add a 2048 cache and my speeds are really high 11.5mbps write and 30.5mbps read so I notice no lag except on boot while my card has to mount and load once it mounts all my apps on the partition load in less than 30 seconds u.can use the app SD tools to find out your cards class and read/write speed
Sent from my Classic-EViLizED-ToMAToFiED-EVo4g-
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ok, good to know. I knew there was a difference but I didn't realize how slow my card is. It's the stock 8gb one that came with the phone. It's great now, and I don't have too many apps or I would buy one like yours. I will try the app sd tool. Is it on the market? I'll check now.
Yea its on the market as well as SD-booster it will allow u to boost your card speeds the stock.card is a class 2 which is fairly slow but if u set a 2048 cache with SD-booster you should get about class 6 speeds
Sent from my Classic-EViLizED-ToMAToFiED-EVo4g-
Flash memory also gets slow over time due to garbage collection. It can only be restored to its full speed again by formatting it. I copy everything off to my computer, format it, then copy it all back. Phone doesn't know the difference so nothing gets messed up.
I do the same about once a week or so when I backup my card to the pc I usually do a quick format on pc reparation//format in recovery then reload everything from the pc
Sent from my Classic-EViLizED-ToMAToFiED-EVo4g-
You don't ever NEED to partition. I never did but thats because I don't have a lot if useless apps. Only keep apps that you use atleast weekly
Having trouble with AOSP? http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1295702
I didn't reformat my SD card, I was playing around with my dalvik cache. Used a2sd to move it to my cache partition, bad idea (kept running out of space) so I moved it back. After I was done everything seems to run a lot smoother. Guess it helps to wipe everything down every now and then.
Crossrocker said:
You don't ever NEED to partition. I never did but thats because I don't have a lot if useless apps. Only keep apps that you use atleast weekly
Having trouble with AOSP? http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1295702
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I partition cuz I have a ton of stuff I use on my phone mostly games for me and my 5 year old but I also partition cuz I find kkeeping my internal storage high makes my phone run better
Sent from my Classic-EViLizED-ToMAToFiED-EVo4g-
awesome
Soulfire_ said:
Flash memory also gets slow over time due to garbage collection. It can only be restored to its full speed again by formatting it. I copy everything off to my computer, format it, then copy it all back. Phone doesn't know the difference so nothing gets messed up.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just to make sure so I don't screw anything up. We're talking about the memory we have when we plug the phone into the pc with the usb cable. That makes total sense since the pc is the same way but there is onboard tools to clean up the hd.
jeffrimerman said:
Just to make sure so I don't screw anything up. We're talking about the memory we have when we plug the phone into the pc with the usb cable. That makes total sense since the pc is the same way but there is onboard tools to clean up the hd.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
or are we talking about the sd card so that is the reason the phone is smoother since I did format it?
jeffrimerman said:
or are we talking about the sd card so that is the reason the phone is smoother since I did format it?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm talking about the SD Card, wasn't that the topic?
I just mounted it as a disk drive.
Warning though - your music playlists WILL BE CLEARED. Back up the playlist first.
(music disappears from the playlist if it is changed in any way, like renaming files, moving them, etc)
There is the ROM, RAM, and SD card, but is there also internal memory that isn't the ROM? The memory that we download apps to internally is like an onboard sd card right? Could this memory be reformatted to improve performance or maybe it's only the sd card that gets all the garbage accumulating?
jeffrimerman said:
There is the ROM, RAM, and SD card, but is there also internal memory that isn't the ROM? The memory that we download apps to internally is like an onboard sd card right? Could this memory be reformatted to improve performance or maybe it's only the sd card that gets all the garbage accumulating?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's a good question - it would be susceptible to the same shortfalls of degraded performance over time like all flash memory.
Isn't that one of the things we format from recovery?
Soulfire_ said:
That's a good question - it would be susceptible to the same shortfalls of degraded performance over time like all flash memory.
Isn't that one of the things we format from recovery?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It probably is. If we were to go into recovery and format it, would we lose our apps stored in our internal memory?
My money would be on "yes".
I asked Mr. Google to check the WWW and this is one of the things I found
"I did it, it doesn't wipe the os. Actually, it deleted only 'user part of the internal sd card' and some applications. I made a factory reset then formatted, so I am not sure about the applications but, sure, it doesn't delete the os. "
there were lots of threads so yeah, the apps would be gone. It's too bad there isn't or maybe there is an app that does the same as defrag in windows to clean things up internally.
Comments I read off the same questions about internal memory:
Android is Linux, not Windows, the system doesn't have a chance to get fragmented because Linux is constantly doing "housekeeping" in the background (Kinda says a lot about Windows, eh?). I wouldn't trust any Windows OS to do anything with a Linux OS, it's just a recipe for disaster.
Don't ever screw with the internal memory. There have been several threads here and elsewhere in which people accidentally formatted the internal instead of the SD card when both drives showed up on the PC. Creates a situation nobody wants to be in.
Defragging is very very bad for flash storage. There is a limit to how many times you can write to each location on the "disk". Since defragging basically rewrites the entire "disk" multiple times, it seriously eats into the life of the "disk".
It also is largely unnecessary since it has much faster seek time than a physical hard disk, and has been pointed out the storage is far less likely to become fragmented on a phone.
Use Titanium Backup...and you lose nothing. Simple format...load favorite ROM..reinstall apps from TB.
jeffrimerman said:
Comments I read off the same questions about internal memory:
Android is Linux, not Windows, the system doesn't have a chance to get fragmented because Linux is constantly doing "housekeeping" in the background (Kinda says a lot about Windows, eh?). I wouldn't trust any Windows OS to do anything with a Linux OS, it's just a recipe for disaster.
Don't ever screw with the internal memory. There have been several threads here and elsewhere in which people accidentally formatted the internal instead of the SD card when both drives showed up on the PC. Creates a situation nobody wants to be in.
Defragging is very very bad for flash storage. There is a limit to how many times you can write to each location on the "disk". Since defragging basically rewrites the entire "disk" multiple times, it seriously eats into the life of the "disk".
It also is largely unnecessary since it has much faster seek time than a physical hard disk, and has been pointed out the storage is far less likely to become fragmented on a phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
We aren't talking about fragmentation. We're talking about what some companies call "garbage collection", or TRIM in the context of SSD's. Look that up