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TyTN bits & pieces...ROMs...Cingular...UMTS...settings..

1. This unlocked HTC TyTN originally came with 05/30/06 ROM installed. I tried different HTC, Dopod, Qtek,I-mate, etc. ROMs available on this Forum but the current one (7/22/06 shown in sig) being used is the most stable I found. All were about the same speed wise. All have the same BT audio problems. Some ROMs really choked with certain utility software, e.g., Spbs & SKtools. Some ROMs are loaded down with stuff you'll never use & can't get rid of easily. This ROM works the best here with demanding chess software & online chess programs, as well as various utilities which are known to cause problems. The real improved TyTN ROM we need isn't released yet!
2. Serial # HT628xxxxxxx. No screen alignment problems.
3. 2 GB SanDisk MicroSD card, formatted as fat32, correct memory detected on device. No data losses so far. I have made backups (Spb) to card & restored with no problem, USING SAME ROM ONLY. All syncs (MS4.2) made to WinXPsp2 computer...works normally.
4. Cingular network settings used = same as Cingular 8125. Found that the TyTN Phone setting\Band settings WORKED BEST when BOTH set to AUTO. When specific settings, i.e., GSM or WCDMA, GSM(1900+850)+UMTS(1900+850), were used, the speeds were much less or erratic for some reason I don't understand. In fact, UMTS connects infrequently & Edge drops way down. This finding may only apply to San Francisco Area. The tests performed all used the DSLReports Test Server-S.F. & 2Wire.com server. A soft reset was done between each test or change of parameters.
5. Also, I found that the Cingular (8125) setup for MEdia Net (which also uses proxy settings) works the best & attains the highest speeds overall. Other settings, especially those needed for audio & video streaming (where proxy is not used), were not as good. Tests included TyTN Cingular settings from various websites, e.g., BengalBoy, etc..I'm still working on finding the optimal settings for non-proxy use. However, I will say, I've been able to play online chess & listen to streaming audio, simultaneously, something not possible with any other ppc or mobile device used. So, even the non-proxy connection through Cingular with TyTN works well.
6. The device Network setting indicates "UMTS Cingular" when connected to UMTS. For G (Edge & less), the Network setting will indicate only "Cingular."
7. Top pda screen indicator U or G. Of course, G appears for Edge or less bandwidth. Speeds generally average about 175-260 kBit/sec Edge or 600-1200 kBit/sec UMTS. The higher speeds are happening more frequently around the San Francisco Bay Area, as Cingular improves the network. Areas where I used to get only Edge speeds are now coming in as UMTS.
8. It's possible Cingular's use of HSDPA software is beginning to bump up the average UMTS speeds, in S.F. area.
9. The TyTN gets much better phone signal than my 8125 & about the same as the excellent 2125. Old Nokia still best in this department. The phone audio quality, both in & out, is MUCH better than Cingular 8125 or I-mate Jamin.
10. I have noticed more Dropped calls with the TyTN, compared to the 8125, 2125, I-mate Jamin & an old Nokia. Maybe that's due to Cingular Network changes related to UMTS, who knows, but others have reported this as well.
11. The TyTN sliding keyboard is heads & shoulders above the 8125! Totally solid mechanism. Thank heavens. It's easiest to use of any pda keyboard experienced.
12. Besides the useful registry BT tweaks one needs for the TYTN, I did find the reg tweaks to pipe the History, Cookies, & Temp Internet Files to MicroSD card, an excellent improvement! With the better TyTN Internet speeds, this tweak means more than before.
13. Using Clip-on Bluetooth Stereo Headset, DKSH-06, spec v1.2.(Shenzhen Trykey,Hongkong) & Motorola H700 BT earpiece. Both excellent with TyTN.

Hi, Do you think you could list the settings that you're using in detail? Thanks!

yea i agree with the above post. im also running the hermes on the cingular network and are interested in the settings you are using to attain such good speeds.

Nice post DeviLduck.
I found that the phone/band settings you use work the best where I am in the Northern VA/Wash DC area. I have never seen any UMTS speed better than the low 800s. As you said, it will get better as the HSDPA software becomes further deployed.
UMTS is still sporatic around here and I have found a few times where the device gets hung up looking for a service. The phone will work but there is no data connection. This only happens on when I have auto/auto selected. If I chose GSM/auto, there is never a hang-up. It ususally happens when I had a UMTS connection and then drop off to an E (G on the display).

Nice post DeviLduck.
I found that the phone/band settings you use work the best where I am in the Northern VA/Wash DC area. I have never seen any UMTS speed better than the low 800s. As you said, it will get better as the HSDPA software becomes further deployed.
UMTS is still sporatic around here and I have found a few times where the device gets hung up looking for a service. The phone will work but there is no data connection. This only happens on when I have auto/auto selected. If I chose GSM/auto, there is never a hang-up. It ususally happens when I had a UMTS connection and then drop off to an E (G on the display).

John,
Are you on the MediaMaxx (MediaNet) plan or pdaconnect plan?
Also please post the settings if you are onthe MediaNet plan. IT is very confusing as to what are the proper settings. Someone should post a definitive guide to the different plans/settings and what the restrictions and limitations are of each plan.
I am in Silver Spring and will be getting my TyTN on Monday/Tuesday of this week. It will be interesting to see what speeds I get up here....Some users are reporting anywhere from 900kbps to 1.2Mbps in our region.
~O

yak86 said:
Hi, Do you think you could list the settings that you're using in detail? Thanks!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Cingular Support with settings:
MEdia Net connection profile
http://onlinecare.cingular.com/supp...ingular.atgnow.com/cng/tutorials/KB56475.html
My ISP connection profile
https://cingular.atgnow.com/cng/tutorials/KB65755.html
TyTN settings:
Start\ Settings\ Personal\ Phone\ BAND\
Select your network type\ AUTO\
Select your GSM/UMTS band\ AUTO
Start\ Settings\ Personal\ Phone\ Network\ Current Network
Will show: UMTS Cingular or Cingular
After changing settings a soft reset is recommended.

iboj007 said:
John,
Are you on the MediaMaxx (MediaNet) plan or pdaconnect plan?
Also please post the settings if you are onthe MediaNet plan. IT is very confusing as to what are the proper settings. Someone should post a definitive guide to the different plans/settings and what the restrictions and limitations are of each plan.
I am in Silver Spring and will be getting my TyTN on Monday/Tuesday of this week. It will be interesting to see what speeds I get up here....Some users are reporting anywhere from 900kbps to 1.2Mbps in our region.
~O
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My understanding is that you would be using these settings regardless of plan.(PDA/Phone) Different phones have different settings. The various plans have options you choose according to need.
In my case, I'm paying $39.95 for UNLIMITED Internet & MEdia Net with a PDA/Phone, which includes email. This is separate from the phone plan.
If you register a Smartphone with Cingular, e.g., Cingular 2125, you can choose a plan for $19.95, for UNLIMITED MEdia Net, does not include email. This plan availability is already going through some major changes.
There are other plans which give you access to Cingular Video & Multimedia content, according to need. These are separate from your Phone plan too.
One popular topic on some Forums involves Cingular users who figured out a way to get the full benefits (of the $39.95 UNLIMITED Plan), by subscribing to the $19.95 MEdia Net Plan. If Cingular will give you that lower rate with the HTC TyTN, Cingular 8525, or other related unlocked branded tytn form factor phone, as legally registered, then that's cool. Here in S.F., a PDA/Phone requires the higher rate plan for Unlimited. If you don't use Internet, then other options are there.
Since the Cingular Plans & Costs structure info is changing as the UMTS Network is being developed, I advise you you to contact Cingular Customer Service for those details. You can be sure these rates will be changing. Available Plans will undergo changes by Jan 2007, count on it. In the near future, if a definitive guide of Cingular Plans & respective differences in settings/limitations, etc., could be pulled together, I'll try to make that contribution here. All this info is in flux right now. Also, the Cingular 8525 availability is still in early stages.
The general criticism is that Cingular costs more than other Providers for Internet/Media related services. However, their Network seems to be the best choice for getting the most out of the TyTN in the San Francisco Bay Area. When other providers ramp up UMTS, I expect Cingular will reduce plan costs & offer more economical packages.
If you're getting a TyTN, I would recommend you sign up for a Plan that gives you true UNLIMITED Internet. Separate charges based on Mbytes downloaded or uploaded will shock you! You can always change it later, if the speeds or connections don't work as advertised where you live.

Remmember that UMTS uses the 1900MHz while GSM is on 850 MHz
850 coverage is superior (RF propagation). HSDPA speed should reach 1.8 mb in few months after T1's are added and to 3.8 mb when new devices based on new Qualcomm chipset are announced. Curently only the Sierra wireless and Option cards are available. Dropped calls on UMTS will improve as CW is optimizing the IRAT HO settings ( when you handover from UMTS to GSM ). Future ROM will fix many problems as CW will launch its 8525 Hermes very soon

DeviLDuck and iboj007 - sorry I haven't replied but i have been away for a couple days. I'm actually a bad case study as I am connecting thru a private company proxy server on an account where we have unlimited voice and data. Unfortunately, the company I work for still has several thousand 2003 devices in play and are using old AT&T SIM cards. Some of us try to play with what we have (the AT&T) SIM cards and use them in our own purchased WM5 devices.
Contrary to what some have written, I can get 3G/UMTS speeds in and around Wash., DC using the older AT&T card. However, it does hangup at times. I know my problems are most likely all related to the SIM card. Because of that, I usually just set the TyYN phone to let me connect thru Edge. I would point out that the TyTN gets me better reception and speeds than my previous S-200. There was a thread here that explained why you would get faster Edge speeds on the TyTN even if you chose GSM/auto under the band settings. Until my company issues new Cingular 3G cards, I will be sticking with Edge settings but even at that, it is a vast improvement over the S-200 connection speeds that I have seen.

John,
Thanks for the reply.
I can't seem to get 3G at home in Silver Spring...I popped my 3g Cingular SIM into an Cu500 and 3g popped up for about 30 seconds...it then defaulted back down to Edge.
I'm pretty sure that I'll get it from work tomorrow in Tysons Corner and i'll let you know the results.
Currently I am on Auto/Auto as settings and using the MEdiaMaxx 200 plan (unlimited data plus 200 SMS).

Great. I work at National A/P and get a pretty good signal there. I went out to Dulles the other day and watched it all the way out on I-66 and it was very stong in the Tysons to Dulles corridor. I guess with all the high tech HQs that are out that way, they made sure they got it first! I am just hoping my company gets the SIM cards converted over to the Cingular 3g sooner than later as it will not work reliably with my present card.

3G to EDGE, not GPRS

Hi, anyone tried connecting to 3G in a non 3G coverage area and the connection automatically switch itself to GPRS instead of EDGE, even if EDGE is available in that area? I wanted to connect my device to EDGE if 3G is not available and not to GPRS. Pls advice... Cheers!

Hey,
The way mobile networks and handsets work is the phone will always choose the highest available connection speed possible and the network based on capacity and available resource will assign the mobile what it can. That's why a phone will always look for a 3G network before a GSM one. When the phone initiates a packet connection to the network it includes a message which tells the network it's capability such as EDGE supported, what class of GPRS capability (4 slots down / 2 up etc...) and then the network based on this message assigns the phone a resource. Most networks nowadays have enough resource to give you a fairly good connection. For example if you support EDGE you will be given EDGE assignment (8QPSK instead of 4GMSK) as the ways the data is scheduled in the network is no different between GPRS and EDGE only the connection between the handset and network is faster.
What actually happens when you change from 3G to GPRS/EDGE is you drop the connection in 3G (move out of coverage) and based on the neighbouring channel list you received off the 3G cell you look for the most suitable GSM cell. Now this cell may or may not support EDGE but in either case the handset will PRACH on the cell, the cell with then ask the handset to authenticate and in this message you send your handset capability and also information about the last RNC/PCU (in this case the one connected to the 3G cell) you were on. The new PCU then signals with your old one and re-routes the data in the backbone of the network to you on your new cell. There will be data loss but the higher layers (application) should ask for re-tries for the missing data if it's TCP data.
In summary your connection priority (if the network supports all these technologies) is: HSDPA > UMTS (3G) > EDGE > GPRS > HSCSD > CSD
Hopefully this answers you question and adds a bit of extra info...
EDIT:
P.S. Not many networks support EDGE at present but most have plans to support it in the next 12-24 months.
Gav

How do you know you are on GPRS and not EDGE??

Hi Eeter,
I don't think there is any indication on the device You could tell my doing a speed test. If you are on a GSM network where you know EDGE is used then more than likely you will be using it instead of GPRS.
Gav.

There is an easy way:
1. Install the fieldtest utility
2. Go into a data session ( streaming radio ....BBC or others )
3. Check the Fiedtest EGPRS page and look for the downling coding
4. If it shows a CS1 or CS2 it is GPRS. If it shows MCS5 etc.. It is EDGE

Checking speed only is misleading. EDGE can be slow sometimes and the speed depends not only on the air interface but on the core internet side too

Hi eeter,
Yeah I agree that a speed test could be miss-leading.
Checking if you are using a MCS instead of CS will say for sure you have an EGPRS connection.
Gav.

htc band settings on 3 network!?

Hi.
I have an HTC Touch HD on the UK 3 Network.
It works fine with texts and calls n 3g but whenever I need data for an app etc it ignores a great 3g signal and tries to connect on HSDPA instead.
now this might not seem like a problem but it often switches from full 3G bars to one bar on HSDPA to check my email. this can take 5 to 10 seconds when it could have just done it on 3G.
what gives? am i using the right settings?
start/settings/phone/band
Network Type "Auto"
GSM/UMTS band "Auto"
when i was on Vodafone it would stay on the best choice ie HSDPA instead of all this swapping about.
I hope this is the right place to ask. not a major problem just a frustration.
thanks
don

In common with many (all?) of the five networks, 3UK has recently switched their handsets from staying on HDSPA to "only" 3g, but automatically changing to HSDPA when data traffic occurs.
HSDPA demands extra bandwidth to the cell. There might be a second or so delay while the handset re-negotiates the extra protocol, but it's done to give extra capacity on the cell, allowing more space for 3G voice calls, while ensuting your data speeds aren't affected by push-email or similar low-bandwidth devices using an always-on HSDPA protocol.
In short, it's completly normal and pretty standard nowadays. Keep your phone on Auto/3G, you can't force it to HSDPA only.

Any way to set 3G as permanent internet so it doesn't go to HDPSA?

I've been having internet troubles since i got my Hero a few weeks ago.
It seems to jump between '3G' and 'H' when I use any applications using the internet. This means that pages often fail to load/download, or appear slower than 2G connection speeds.
I think this is because I'm in an area which can just about receive HDSPA speeds sometimes, but not consistently, so I was wondering if there's any way to set the internet to stay at 3G and not attempt to connect to HDSPA? When I'm in areas where the best speed possible in 3G, the internet is infinitely faster than when it's jumping from 3G to H and back.
Thank You!

I'm not sure on the phone itself but from a network perspective you would need to ask you phone provider to change your QOS on the HLR (network control and provisioning) to a non HSDPA entry, eg t-mobile uk QOS 1201 = HSDPA 3.6

it doesn't work that way (the hlr qos profile). you can only set the maximum speed there, not the RAN technology which is used. i don't think there is anything you can do, the phone attaches to the best server (=cell with strongest signal), and if that cell supports hsdpa it is used for data transfer. as hsd(p)a is only an "addon" for umts i don't think that your connection would be better on the same cell, even if you were able to force umts usage. bad radio reception is bad radio reception... it is not uncommon that a stable EDGE connection works better than a weak umts/hspa signal, have you tried switching to 2g?

kendong2 said:
it doesn't work that way (the hlr qos profile). you can only set the maximum speed there, not the RAN technology which is used. i don't think there is anything you can do, the phone attaches to the best server (=cell with strongest signal), and if that cell supports hsdpa it is used for data transfer. as hsd(p)a is only an "addon" for umts i don't think that your connection would be better on the same cell, even if you were able to force umts usage. bad radio reception is bad radio reception... it is not uncommon that a stable EDGE connection works better than a weak umts/hspa signal, have you tried switching to 2g?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
of course you can, thousands of sims on networks are unable to use hsdpa because of a low qos, on t-mobile's uk system if you do not provision the web and walk plus SOC on the account the service order does not go through and they are unable to use HSDPA. I dont have a HSDPA qos and I dont get a H but if I use the sim that came with it I do.. best thing to do is give the networks tech support a ring with some times and locations and ask if they can look at what ever reporting system they use and look at network statistics at the time. Best to look at the sgsn;s and look at the stats at that point.
It doesnt matter if the cell supports hsdpa, hsdpa on the cell itself is only a capability to go back through to the msc. a footprint on a 3g cell will keep the closest strongest users when it hits max capacity, if you are on the outskirts you ill lose out.
the more you complain to the provider the qucicker they add some higher bandwidth lines to th local exchange or hub..
Might simply be a congested site, if so it should report itself...
naughty naughty trx

ahem... hspa is RAN (as in Radio Access Network) technology. it is applied to the communication between the handset and the node b, not anything behind the node b (not sure whether the rnc needs to be aware of it, but that's it, no msc involved). i am not sure whether the simcard needs to be hspa capable, but i have never heard of it. and i do provision sim cards for a living...

kendong2 said:
ahem... hspa is RAN (as in Radio Access Network) technology. it is applied to the communication between the handset and the node b, not anything behind the node b (not sure whether the rnc needs to be aware of it, but that's it, no msc involved). i am not sure whether the simcard needs to be hspa capable, but i have never heard of it. and i do provision sim cards for a living...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You are rightt hsdpa as a technology does get implemented between the mast (node b) and the handset.. what is added between the RNC and the node b is the LUB this is an added control mechanism, this kinda makes sure no data is loss occurs when the node b's buffers are overflowed! this is not a fool proof system, RNC? it could be a SRNC controller,, anyway you are right in what you say but as i have worked within this area i do know that when i was saying "SIMS" I didnt mean the actual sim itself i was referring to sims with old HLR profiles that cant access hsdpa! most pay as you go sims cant on tmob uk this stops them going £1 a day unlimited handset internet and hammering the sim in a dongle!! Im a big fan of provisioning btw! geeky as it sounds the complexity of mass provisioning failures interests me!

3g network bands

I am wondering if 3g networks require the phone to have 2 of the same bands or just one? for example, If I had a phone with 3g frequency of 1900/2100 would it still work with at&t or rogers (850/1900)?

3G would not work. Your phone needs to support whatever frequency is in the area. Lets say you are on AT&T, and AT&T uses 850 & 1900, but in your region they only use 850, then the phone must support 850 in order to properly use 3G signals.
For the most part there is no way to unlock frequencies or change frequencies on phones either.
Jason

So basically your saying that depending your location, it may or may not work?

Emulating a BTS for VoIP
@myrandex,
I wonder if it would be possible to have a USB 3G modem acting as a BTS.
I have 3cx on my ntb and, since I am roaming 95% of my time around Europe, I would like to set-up a USB modem to connect with my HTC Pro (which has the WM6VOIPFull installed) and hook-up to my 3cx via SIP and route my calls via Internet.
I can sort of do it now with WiFI, but battery drain and range really suck!
Right now I'm considering swapping pre-paid 3G SIM cards whenever I go to a new project; usually I stay 3-6 months - not enough to justify signing-up for a post paid (10.00 euros/month!!!!) and sure enough to break my bank account (*400 euros last month alone!*).
So PLEASE, I'm BLEEDING, if you know of any software that would make a USB or another htc (I have an old one around) to act as a BTS and stablish a data connection (with routing) to my hand set, that would ROCK!!!
I've been searching for 3G gateways and routers, but what they do is connect SIP-to-GSM/3G and vice-versa using the 3G network, not much help for me
So, the word is out! Let's see how many telco gurus are on xda (shhhh).
Thanks,
HZ

hzmonteiro said:
@myrandex,
I wonder if it would be possible to have a USB 3G modem acting as a BTS.
I have 3cx on my ntb and, since I am roaming 95% of my time around Europe, I would like to set-up a USB modem to connect with my HTC Pro (which has the WM6VOIPFull installed) and hook-up to my 3cx via SIP and route my calls via Internet.
I can sort of do it now with WiFI, but battery drain and range really suck!
Right now I'm considering swapping pre-paid 3G SIM cards whenever I go to a new project; usually I stay 3-6 months - not enough to justify signing-up for a post paid (10.00 euros/month!!!!) and sure enough to break my bank account (*400 euros last month alone!*).
So PLEASE, I'm BLEEDING, if you know of any software that would make a USB or another htc (I have an old one around) to act as a BTS and stablish a data connection (with routing) to my hand set, that would ROCK!!!
I've been searching for 3G gateways and routers, but what they do is connect SIP-to-GSM/3G and vice-versa using the 3G network, not much help for me
So, the word is out! Let's see how many telco gurus are on xda (shhhh).
Thanks,
HZ
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't think it's possible to do what you're mentioning right now, but perhaps someone could create a hack if they really worked at it. To be honest that may not be worth the effort, the labor spent on creating such a system would probably outweigh the costs of getting the device with the correct bands
And, to answer the OP's questions, there are definitely plenty of users with devices that only support one of the 3G bands their carrier uses.
For example, a lot of people import the Telstra HD2 for use on AT&T's 850 band, even though it doesn't have 1900 support.
There are some cities where AT&T doesn't have 850 support, but a lot of recent 3G expansion/upgrades have resulted in additional 850 band usage, especially in markets like NYC.
You should check to see if AT&T uses 1900 in your general area, and any other place you intend on using the phone. Worst comes to worst, you'll still have EDGE...Some areas support both 850/1900 and devices toggle between them depending on which is less congested, etc. 850 tends to have better in-building reception, so if your device only supports 1900, and the network is spaced out for 850, you might not have as good 3G coverage in some areas, even if 1900 is technically supported.
All that in mind, if you're going to go with a "half-band" 3G solution, 850-only is probably better, as it correlates with AT&T's most recent 3G expansion/upgrades, and yields better indoor coverage when available.
Just a combination of my two cents and observations above. As always, YMMV.

@gsvnet
Nice reply to mkeras2, complements the one from myrandex very well.
Now to the BTS subject,
Actually, the idea of using a usb dongle doesn't seem so bad, these things have two way radio as any cell phone, it's just a matter of setting one as the end-point (broadcasting/polling) and the other (hand set) as client. I wouldn't mind having a tweak in the registry to set the radio to "allways connected" to a fixed "FakeNetID" and bypass PAP/CHAP authentication with the BCS (after all there would be no access to the GSM network, just to my PC/Internet/SIP Server) and I would only need data traffic, no messing around with CoDecs and the "hooking" of voice channels. A simple app could easily set/reset the registry, but I wonder if the radios would complete handshake and establish a connection.
I'm not sure about range with these radios without any high gain antennas and amplifiers, but I just need a few hundred meeters of access, pretty much as a good WiFi Router. And it would probably be perfectly legal as well (the devices are anyway).
After that it would be just routing.
BTW, I would love to get my hands on one of those new microcells. That's exactly what these things do, but with multiplexing and all the heavy security to authenticate and register to the GSM network.
They are being tested in the UK (I believe the first in Europe so far).
I live in Holland, but am currently in Luxembourg and have been recently working for 3+ months in Switzerland, LUX, NL and hoping around in Germany, Belgium, UK and Spain (vacations!!! ahhhh)...
So I'm curious to know what kind of plan Telcos will make available with the microcell.
If I am able to take it with me and plug it in whatever IP access point I have around, this would solve my roaming problem.
I don't mind paying to have access, don't get me wrong, but my NL plan gives me unlimited data access (national) for e10.00/month and I just went looking for a plan that WAS available from Vodafone UK (I use Vodafone NL), which allowed 5GB of data roaming in the EU for circa 50pounds/month, but it seems they no longer offer this plan.
During the last 2 months I was charged 300 and now almost 400 euros for roaming. As I said, I have a 60.00euro plan + 10.00 for unlimited national data.
I also know that in other EU countries you can get unlimited data plans for fair money as well, the problem is that I never know for how long I will stay in any given assignment/country. By the end of the year I would have some 5 or 6 annual subscriptions (still cheaper than roaming!) but I must have proof of residence in all those countries, bank account, etc, etc, etc... I don't LIVE in these places, I just work there for rather longer periods... and BTW, I'm a micro entrepreneur, so no way to push this onto "The Boss"... Thats me!
So I believe the charges imposed by Telcos for roaming are just not fair... Outrageous, actually.
I don't even mind paying for the Telco's CapEx (buying the microcell and using MY Internet connection), but at least I would have a sense of control and partnership/sponsorship.
And my mother told me to be a doctor... Decided to go into IT... Yeah!
Any info on these microcells and any ideas and buzz on Telcos' plans are very appreciated.
Cheers,
HZ