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S.O.S. Memory management on Jam...

Hi all!
I'm Markino from Italy and I've got some question about I-Mate Jam.
I don't undertand the memory management of this device: how the RAM-ROM and MMC are used by the Windows Mobile 2003 SE? If I install an application, where the files are stored? If the battery drops down what I'll lose?
Many thanks and sorry for my bad English!
Marco

Marco, in theory you should let Windows to manage your memory. The i-mate JAM has 64MB of ROM and 64MB of RAM. The ROM is mostly occupied with OS and other 3rd party software that installs automatically when you hard reset the phone. Part of this ROM is also used when using the "Permanent Storage" feature of the OS, where it lets you save some files, contacts, etc.
What should really interest you is the RAM. The OS uses this RAM for running programs (like the RAM on your PC) and the rest is used for storage. If you go to Start -> Settings -> Memory, the OS will tell you how much of your RAM is being used for Running Programs and how much is used for Storage.
The safest place for your data would be an SD Card, as anything stored on the SD card will stay in tact after a hard reset.

Thanks kta! You're great!
Well.. in your opinion what is the best way to use the Jam's RAM with a 512MB SD installed?
I can configure the device to use all the RAM space to run program and store all the file and app. in the SD or it's better to use a part of RAM to some particoular application?
The SD Ultra II are really faster in the Jam?

The more free RAM you have the faster your mobile works. I would suggest installing most of your programs on the storage card. Before installing a program make sure that it can run smoothly on an SD card. Most programs do work well when installed on the storage card so it shouldn never be a problem.
Having said that, RAM is MUCH faster than an SD card, although modern SD cards like the UltraII give over 9MB per second (66x) write speed.
A more complex option (the one I'm using) is to install a hacked ROM (aka Big Storage ROM) where you will be able to gain an extra 27MB of Storage (i.e. in RAM). You can then use this storage space for installing programs and these should work slightly faster than when installed on an SD card. However, installing the hacked ROM requires some experience with ROMS and would not suggest you go for it unless you want to end up with your JAM stuck in bootloader mode :wink:
With regards to SD cards, the faster the speed (i.e. 40x, 66x, 133x) the better.
And if you intend to use your JAM as an MP3 player I would suggest going for a 1GB or 2GB SD card. The price difference usually justifies the extra space! Before buying a 2GB card, check these forums for compatibility issues as some of them did not work on the JAM.
Hope I didn't confuse you more!

SD card speed on the JAM makes no difference for operating the device, since the JAM can only read/write the SD card at the standard speed - buying a faster card makes no difference.
A faster card is useful if you frequently copy large files between your SD card and your PC, but for the JAM it makes no difference.

Memory SPEED - Internal vs. ExtROM vs. StorageCard

Microsoft said in WIN2003SE it's always recommended to install mostly used programs into MAIN memory cause it's way way way faster than the extended rom or storage card. So on my old PDA2k I installed regularely used programs like Pocket Informant, Voice Command etc.. on the internal memory for enhanced speed.
I was wondering if anyone knows/ did benchmarks of Read/Write/Access Speed of all 3 memory mediums available to us JJ/Exec users ? That is Internal memory, Extended Rom (Which was unlocked thanks to buzz) as well as an SD Card.
Thanks guys
MOBILER

I have a 60x SD card - at least I am TOLD it is a 60x card - but Pocket Mechanic benchmark tells me it is just 4x. (Perhaps someone else who has PM could give us THEIR SD card benchmark figures for comparison?)
It was suggested on this forum the problem might not be in the card but in the SD port. If so, the Universal's SD port could be a serious hindrance to good performance.

SPEED difference between EXT_ROM and Main memory ??

Hey,
I Was wondering
If there's downside installing programs to EXT_ROM ??
It's all free on my Jasjar and I did already install several apps there.
Is there any performance issue installing to ext_rom ??
Is it the absolutly the same Read/Write/Access time speed as Main memory ??
I was thinking maybe installing frequently heavy apps to main memory will have a benefit over extended_rom installations.
Regards,
MOBILER

nobody ?

dunno about main memory verus extROM speed, but suspect they would be similar. I woudl recommend installing as many apps as possible to your storage card. I have a 4Gb fast SD card and don't notice any particular problems

It has been the same for me.I have a few programs that start with the start up after coming out of sleep mode that do not lag and boot up just fine.Seems like they carry the same speed as the applications on my main memory

Thanks.. that's what I assumed, but I'm still not sure. It would seem logical that the chips are the same and that only software makes 10mb of it hidden and called extendedrom. I just like to give speed requiring prg such as Voice Command the best possible perfomance they need.

can u use sd card for program memory?

hi, I'd like to know if you can use the sd card and say partition it so that you can make your xda exec device use the storage on it as programe memory so it speeds the device up. this really is a fab device, but it really lacks the memory capacity that I had on a blue angel.
I have a 1gb sd card and don't mind loosing any storage space to accomplish this. if there isn't a way, can someone try and find a reg tweek for this....
anyway, I leave it with you...
cheers.
joey jojo

I think this is something which should be taken as a clue by developers who make programs such as Memaid, Pocket Mechanic, etc and include this as a a feature. Maybe the concept will be something similar to the Virtual Memory on a regular windows pc.
You are absolutely right, I too really miss the shortage of program memory. I can never open a really complicated web page with lots of images in Netfront before I get the dreadful warning that I have run out of program memory.
I hope some developer picks this up and incorporates this as a feature. I am sure this will increase his sales many many times.
Regards

you can put your internet explorer's cache on the sd-card...
[HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Explorer\Shell Folders\Cache]
change cache from '\windows\profiles\guest\temporari internet files' to '\SD_MMCard' to achieve this...
however you'll notice that it only slows your device incredibly down if your SD-Card is not set up right
see also http://forum.xda-developers.com/viewtopic.php?t=50301

There is just no way a third party program can add this. On the windows mobile team blog, there's a post from a few months back talking about doing virtual mem on the SD card, and basically, it's just not in the OS and won't be until at least WM6, and third-party programs can't do it.

JasperJanssen said:
There is just no way a third party program can add this. On the windows mobile team blog, there's a post from a few months back talking about doing virtual mem on the SD card, and basically, it's just not in the OS and won't be until at least WM6, and third-party programs can't do it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Those are very disappointing news...

Speaking of memory management and the OS itself..I really wonder during the development of WM5, did they try to come up with a better OS, or just building up upon WM2003.
Reason why I say this is my Universal crashed yesterday, and a look into the "Memory" panel in the Settings showed the OLD memory management screen along with the sliders and all... :lol:
Looks like the developers got lazy and just placed a panel on top of the old one :lol:

Ehh.. You guys want to be buying new SD cards every third month?
Flash memory like the SD cards have only a limited number of write operations before they fail.
Using them for storage is good, because you don't write to the cards that much.
Using them as memory would totally screw up the card in a rather short time.
And, I think using SD card for program memory would result in a slower application, because of the read/write speed of the SD compared to the RAM..
--- EDIT ---
3 months is just a figure of speach..
I have no idea of how much time it would take before failure occurs..
It would probably result in slower and slower performance, because some sectors would be worn out faster than others..

What you say about the writes before failure is right, but when you are faced with a £300 PDA that has the same amount of RAM as my little finger, you have to do something.
SD cards are cheap enough these days, and money grows on trees. I'd rather be able to leave programs open and not worry about how much it will slow the machine down to have more that three big apps running than I would be about coughing up for a new SD card every 3 months.
I have seen a 4GB card on Ebay for less than £80, Tescos sell 1GB for £30 these days.
The great thing about Tescos is their guarantee. You buy the card, write it to death, take it back for a full refund, no questions asked.

What size of the SD-card is supported with Helmi's WM6 for BA?

Hi,
what is the size of your SD-card that you are using with your WM6 BA?
Does Helmi's ROM support up to 4GB card?
I'm asking because I'd like to buy a new one - preferable 4GB.
Thanks in advance
Phily

BA supports standard SD cards not the SDHC.
So if you manage to get more than 2gb on a regular SD card that would work.
I guess that there is one company that make 4g regular SD cards.

I have 4GB card (Platinum brand) that is not SDHC and works fine in BA. Ideal for multiple navigation systems.

I think Transcend have 4 GB card that is reported to work in ba
(I have not tryed it)

xplode said:
I think Transcend have 4 GB card that is reported to work in ba
(I have not tryed it)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have 4G Transcend SD 150x (it is not SDHC) - works very good, but it is slow card. (very slow writing data, both WM5 and WM6).

Thanks
Thank you for your feedback!

SCHC
With the cab SDHC.cab it's possible to read card up to 8Go.

teddybear3k said:
With the cab SDHC.cab it's possible to read card up to 8Go.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not in Bleangel

teddybear3k: have you tried? I go for xplode and say, that it's not possible.

Not possible until skilled programmer rewrite the SD Bus driver

SDHC
what about this? (WARNING THIS HP offers warez aswell, but following links are, so far I know, to free ware! So please do not warn, kick or ban me for this links.)
Page Link -- http://myppc.ru/2007/09/14/sdhc_driver.html
File Link -- http://myppc.ru/uploads/files/myppc.ru-1881_sdhc.rar
Is it the same? I would like to install it, but I'm aware, if it could scratch my device....
The given page actually is a good newsticker for PPC programs, I like it even more, than HPC.ru
if this cab should work, then even SDHC Cards with more then 32GB should probably work aswell....
wfg. - Mihail

Mihail: on the list there is NO BlueAngel. Installing it won't kill your device, you will just loose SD card access (and you will need to reverse the operation or make hard reset to get back the access).
We need SD driver made especially for BlueAngel.

List only tells,
on which devices this driver was already applied! Not for which devices it is maid!
That's why!

Mikhail: test it and report. Make backup before and prepare for HR.

Test to 50%
O don't have any SDHC cards! So I could only test, if this cab allows to use SD-Cards, not more... but I will do it!

HTC driver - but not BA
Is not working for BA.... and I'm not a progger (and for shure not a disassembler/hacker) to change this.

So you just confirmed what we said. Please confirm it on your own before publishing any new "breakthru" news.

sd bus driver
Does any one you think that it is possible to use the bsquare development kits to build support for higher/faster sd cards for blue angel?

If you had source code for the SD reader driver and knew how to update it to support SDHC (by hand probably) yes, this is doable with ANY devkit. Without this you are left with desassembling and analysing it in assembler/C.

sd card
hmm i am a high level programmer. (But I like to dive into the subject for giving something back to this community) (I can program in C but have never build a driver before) (Assembly is far beyond my scope) Though I have some good system programmers in my business environment. I will post my findings in this thread and maybe it's a good idea to change the direction of this thread to making this possible (and the way to doing it) instead of asking which is the max card working on the blue angel. Making the BA take advantage of the new generation SD cards is IMHO a very important step.