Related
http://blogs.computerworld.com/17649/android_upgrades
I can't give you a better argument not to go for SE.
Thank you for the info, on the other hand i can probably find such a site for every car brand and i am still driving :lol
Sent from my X10i using Tapatalk
I think this phone will be quickly replaced by SE with a better higher quality device look at how many PSP models there are. They will probably hold back on updates for a newer model.
It might last a year at most before a "PSP slim" phone, Or dare I say a white model (lol)
P.S I may of had bad experience with the x!0 series owning 3 different models so my post may be a bit biased.
I had a SE Satio, which was a complete failure. Support for les then 6 months, 2 minor bug fixes within those 6 months.
The support of the X1 and the X10 and family dropped fairly quick as well. And also consider that the X10 started with outdated software already.
Why would SE change this policy?
In my opinion they stripped the company so harsch (2009/2010) of all unnescacarry business departments and personnel that they can't support the phones for to long. They just need to sell phones in masses to make profit. They can't give the support the customers asks, or demands. And customers benchmark companies and expect SE to have the same update ratio as other companies like HTC, or Samsung.
They won't give the same update ratio as other companies because they don't have the funds. Everything is focussed on sales, not the aftersales...
SonyEricsson: We won't keep doing what we are doing now! Promise!
Thanks for posting this, Bestevaer.
If, as they have promised, SonyEricsson (SE) really has turned the corner on keeping current on android versions, then the best way for them to demonstrate this newfound commitment would be to begin updating the X10 series.
Why would anyone take the gamble on SE keeping the Xperia arc updated?
If enough consumers are well informed, then SE is going to miss a whole cycle on this series of hardware upgrades. Keeping current customers satisfied should be seen as an investment on getting and keeping future customers.
I know I'll never buy another SE device if they don't keep my X10 reasonably current for the life of my two-year contract -- and I advise my "laggard" friends looking for android devices of such.
When HTC is doing such a good job keeping their devices current, why would anyone go SE?
Because most people don't know any better and only looking for a good looking device. I really know people who are now extremely happy because I showed them there is a market, you won't believe it, but I swear it's true! Those people have no idea if they are on 2.1 or 1.6 or 2.3.. And they really don't care.
We are with far too few to get through to SE's executives... They really don't care if 1% of their users are complaining all the time, they only want to sell big numbers and to do so they make stunning looking devices.
It's all about money and reaching targets, to get there you have to make some thing for the mass public, the top managers only get their asses fired when they don't reach their targets...
For me, once again, I will get one as I already preordered one, just to see by myself what they learned in the last period...
Sent from my X10i using Tapatalk
PollPixx said:
Because most people don't know any better and only looking for a good looking device. I really know people who are now extremely happy because I showed them there is a market, you won't believe it, but I swear it's true! Those people have no idea if they are on 2.1 or 1.6 or 2.3.. And they really don't care.
We are with far too few to get through to SE's executives... They really don't care if 1% of their users are complaining all the time, they only want to sell big numbers and to do so they make stunning looking devices.
It's all about money and reaching targets, to get there you have to make some thing for the mass public, the top managers only get their asses fired when they don't reach their targets...
For me, once again, I will get one as I already preordered one, just to see by myself what they learned in the last period...
Sent from my X10i using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You are right about SE that they make beautifull phones. You are also right that there are allot of people who go to a store and buy a nice looking new phone when there 2, or 1 year subscription has expired (maybe a new SE).
But you forget that it's very costly for a company to lose loyal customers. Not only in money but also in feedback. And feedback is a free advise for a company. But mine and many others experiences with SE is that they don't care about feedback, so they will not improve as a company. And if you don't improve as a company you will lose marketshare, your position comparing to the competition will weaken. See what is happening atm with SE if you compare them to HTC, Samsung or Apple if you like. They lose market share and loyal customers.
In 2010 they shipped less handsets comparing to previous years and they lost a considerable market share while the smartphone market was growing rapidly. (Side note: yes they made profit in 2010, but every company can fire people and cut company business and make profit. There is nothing fancy about it).
Good point there, but so far they never listened to any feedback as far as I can tell. I stopped sending them mails a long time ago as they never replied, and when they did, they completely missed my point of criticism by sending a preset marketing message
Sent from my X10i using Tapatalk
Bestevaer said:
You are right about SE that they make beautifull phones. You are also right that there are allot of people who go to a store and buy a nice looking new phone when there 2, or 1 year subscription has expired (maybe a new SE).
But you forget that it's very costly for a company to lose loyal customers. Not only in money but also in feedback. And feedback is a free advise for a company. But mine and many others experiences with SE is that they don't care about feedback, so they will not improve as a company. And if you don't improve as a company you will lose marketshare, your position comparing to the competition will weaken. See what is happening atm with SE if you compare them to HTC, Samsung or Apple if you like. They lose market share and loyal customers.
In 2010 they shipped less handsets comparing to previous years and they lost a considerable market share while the smartphone market was growing rapidly. (Side note: yes they made profit in 2010, but every company can fire people and cut company business and make profit. There is nothing fancy about it).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You leave me no choice but to argue. Yes, losing loyal customers is important, I agree, but that they are not listening to feedback is no where near what you said. If you do now know how internal works, please refrain from saying anything of this sort. It's much better if you would just say they work inefficiently, and they already admit it. They can't take in all the voice of ALL consumers. I know that they're at least trying from the scope of the updates they send out internally. They kept adding features and changing support. This is to get the maximum output for the time frame.
Shipped less handsets? Well have you looked at the number of handsets they announced? The price range also increased. They're aiming for premium markets, which means they're not mass producing their units. Whatever number is produced, it will only be sold that amount only. They made more profit selling smaller volumes, but higher price range, so it's not rocket science to have profit even if they ship less. You think kicking out employees make them yield profit? Please study on what the reconstruction cost includes and how ridiculous it costs. Thank you.
http://gizmodo.com/5733556/the-complete-state-of-android-froyo-upgrades
Any thoughts?
unknown13x said:
You leave me no choice but to argue. Yes, losing loyal customers is important, I agree, but that they are not listening to feedback is no where near what you said. If you do now know how internal works, please refrain from saying anything of this sort. It's much better if you would just say they work inefficiently, and they already admit it. They can't take in all the voice of ALL consumers. I know that they're at least trying from the scope of the updates they send out internally. They kept adding features and changing support. This is to get the maximum output for the time frame.
Shipped less handsets? Well have you looked at the number of handsets they announced? The price range also increased. They're aiming for premium markets, which means they're not mass producing their units. Whatever number is produced, it will only be sold that amount only. They made more profit selling smaller volumes, but higher price range, so it's not rocket science to have profit even if they ship less. You think kicking out employees make them yield profit? Please study on what the reconstruction cost includes and how ridiculous it costs. Thank you.
http://gizmodo.com/5733556/the-complete-state-of-android-froyo-upgrades
Any thoughts?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't know about there internal structure but I do know how bunisess engineering works. And what I experience and see there business engineering isn't working out for a bunch of there customers.
It is understandable that they can't listen to all there customers wisches, but what boggles me is that there hasn't made an improvement after thet Satio and the Vivaz (my scope). Those phones got terrible support, and customers received terrible feedback. Since then no improvements have been made, and I honestly don't think they will make improvements according to all the new phones they introduce. All these phones need support as well...
They shipped less handset, but as you mentioned the average prices went up several 10th's of dollars. But compared to the smartphone market they lost market share and other phone manufacturers shipped more phones instead of less. Check out there Q3 report of 2010.
http://www.ericsson.com/res/investors/docs/q-reports/2010/9month10-en.pdf
Bestevaer said:
I don't know about there internal structure but I do know how bunisess engineering works. And what I experience and see there business engineering isn't working out for a bunch of there customers.
It is understandable that they can't listen to all there customers wisches, but what boggles me is that there hasn't made an improvement after thet Satio and the Vivaz (my scope). Those phones got terrible support, and customers received terrible feedback. Since then no improvements have been made, and I honestly don't think they will make improvements according to all the new phones they introduce. All these phones need support as well...
They shipped less handset, but as you mentioned the average prices went up several 10th's of dollars. But compared to the smartphone market they lost market share and other phone manufacturers shipped more phones instead of less. Check out there Q3 report of 2010.
http://www.ericsson.com/res/investors/docs/q-reports/2010/9month10-en.pdf
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So...looking at your document doesn't prove anything you said. They're holding on through each quarter while having increased income per quarter...what's your point? Their market share dropped a merely 1% since 2009 from the latest document I received
All brands has dropped their support for Symbian. It's just the reality that this is not the platform for the future. I'm not going to mention any brand, but you can find that out yourself which brand also dropped their support the same time SE did. They did released 2 MR updates as for their policy. It's not as if they dropped the support midway. They fulfilled its 1 year support. What else is needed when the market doesn't even support the platform anymore? Also, wasn't your post initially for Android? What's the point in dragging in Symbian?
SE's standing in terms of updating their devices is no brainer. This phone however will sell for cosmetic reasons. Despite the massive outrage all over the internet, SE will still retain its market share mainly because they are still comming up with good designs.
However the news that SE devices will now get faster updates should be taken with a pinch of salt. Things don't change over night.
It all comes down to personal preference really. If you want a slick looking device; SE is the way to go. If updates matter go for HTC or Nexus.
unknown13x said:
So...looking at your document doesn't prove anything you said. They're holding on through each quarter while having increased income per quarter...what's your point? Their market share dropped a merely 1% since 2009 from the latest document I received
All brands has dropped their support for Symbian. It's just the reality that this is not the platform for the future. I'm not going to mention any brand, but you can find that out yourself which brand also dropped their support the same time SE did. They did released 2 MR updates as for their policy. It's not as if they dropped the support midway. They fulfilled its 1 year support. What else is needed when the market doesn't even support the platform anymore? Also, wasn't your post initially for Android? What's the point in dragging in Symbian?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You should see the 1% drop in marketshare in perspective. In 2009 the smartphone market grew rapidly, but SE didn't took a part of the pie. And you should (as a critical customer) think why they didn't grew as other companies.
My point is that you should not take the gamble. Buy a SE and there could be a possibility that you (again) end up with poor support, since they never ever improved there support. But you do end up with a beautifulll looking phone.....
The example of the Satio and Vivaz where just to make my point clear about the lack of support and feedback from SE. And that there policy hasn't changed thus far with the introduction of Android.
Sent from my Desire HD using XDA App
As far as I am concerned, SE are dead. I had the X1, SE are worst for software updates. I remember getting froyo on my HTC desire a good 2-3 months before the X10 got 2.1 eclair.
SE have stated that its a fresh start, lets see if they can hold up to that promise, but after the X10, I can't trust SE anymore, i'd much rather go for HTC, Moto or even samsung...
unknown13x said:
Shipped less handsets? Well have you looked at the number of handsets they announced? The price range also increased. They're aiming for premium markets, which means they're not mass producing their units. Whatever number is produced, it will only be sold that amount only. They made more profit selling smaller volumes, but higher price range, so it's not rocket science to have profit even if they ship less. You think kicking out employees make them yield profit? Please study on what the reconstruction cost includes and how ridiculous it costs. Thank you.
http://gizmodo.com/5733556/the-complete-state-of-android-froyo-upgrades
Any thoughts?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Let me comment, please.
I have 30 years of IT experience, and 15 of that in application development in FT100 companies.
SE was unable to take part in the astounding demand for new cell phones this year for a number reasons and they don't yet understand the Android philosophy:
1. They were unable to bring X10 family the USA market early.
2. The hardware was excellent when it was announced over two years ago, but they did not make any changes to that hardware to keep that edge. There was no slip-streaming of a better CPU/GPU or "N" wifi etc. SE took advantage of the reduced costs 'by the time' they went to actually manufacture the phones and made design decisions that compromised the performance of the phone, it's upgradeability and saved them money in the parts list.
3. SE continues to not be able to engage serious interest by T-Mobile in SE phones while not one of the two top carriers, is one that they could certainly make a phone for. Equinox is the only phone they are currently selling and only the TM506 prior to that.
4. SE's move to ATL (according to some posts on XDA by former SE Raleigh staff) and the general reduction in programming staff lost those programmers most familiar with the AT&T firmware testing. Historically in the AT&T relationship, AT&T NEVER RELEASED a second firmware for any SE phone even though SE traditionally has released several versions for every phone they have ever made. AT&T has never felt that updates were important for any phone they sold, to them, it is just a pain in the ass. MS forced them to do updates for Windows phones and the contract with Apple didn't give them a choice.
5. Android is supposed to compete with iPhones IOS. One of the ways that makes the iPhone so desirable is that even the old hardware runs the new version of the OS. This means that people who want to stay in grandfathered contracts have a way to resell their old phone to people who don't want to upgrade to a subsidized phone and don't care about the latest and greatest hardware version. Prior model iPhones were selling for $100-$199 just as the last version came out. (Many were shipped to markets not covered by Apple.) This funds the purchase of new models either subsidized or not. Android OS updates make the phones resalable. A Android phone that is out of phase with the latest OS is worthless for resale. SE and other OEMs don't seem to be taking this into account as a part of Apple's strategy to make the iphone have increased value and are not applying it to their own strategy.
6. SE's heads have decided to "not compete on hardware." Well, this is a problem since the people who are looking for Android phones specifically are generally technical and would certainly look at hardware. The X10 was targeted at women as if it was a traditional SE fashion phone with enhanced social networking, all those early ads were showing women using the phone. The Captivate and the X10 arrived within 'days' of each other. The Captivate certainly has the hardware spec advantage over the X10a. Even small things like the internal storage was huge by comparison, as well as the full 512mb ram. Even though the Captivate phone is seriously flawed and fairly ugly, the 'hardware' outsold the X10 by 30x (at AT&T alone). AT&T has not found it necessary to 2-4-1 it or even reduce the pricing significantly, and it was MORE expensive than the X10a through the entire cycle. SE's proud it made 29-30% in the first 3 qtrs 2010 on the phones, but the last quarter I think we will see that number reduced due to the heavy discounting they did to dump the X10's in stock.
SE's so proud of the 30% markup? Apple makes 100%. Samsung was using parts they actually manufactured in other divisions such as the screens, memory and other components, it would not surprise me if they made 50 or 60%.
7. SE didn't listen customers or even to their own employees. SE gave X10's to every SonyStyle store employee to drum up support for sales. Guess what, every SonyStyle employee that I've spoken to, and I have spoken with more than a dozen, either sold the phone right away or gave it away to a family member. I could not find a single employee that actually used it. As a result they didn't really know how to use or demo it in the stores and since many have iPhones or other Android devices didn't even know it didn't have MT (witnessed by them trying to pinch zoom). The actual sale of a phone ( I bought two of these at SonyStyle stores in two different states), was a 'rare' event that the manager used for training other employees. SonyStyle was giving these phones away for Xmas sales with a two year contract, again to dump inventory. Employees when they realized that I was not just some old guy but a technical person were questioning why I would even WANT a X10. (It wasn't so much for the phone as for SE support which I have always liked and the better than run-of-the-mill PC software to link the phone which they butchered with the X10.)
8. Yes, SE never promised 2.2 or MT. (And some of the other companies have reneged or delayed a 2.2/2.3 update for many phones.) As for the global 1year policy, this is terrible, as the phone will only have been in the US for 8 months. However, with the admitted failure to deliver good customer service this year after the reorganization, Android 2.2 or 2.3 would certainly be a good will gesture to the millions of X10 owners and would make the phone worth a few dollars in resale. Only a buy back program for upgrading would be better, though the ARC with less than 300mb internal storage and 512mb ram, an already 6 month old CPU/GPU combo (which is now very cheap) isn't 'cutting edge' by a long shot.
Stan.S, brilliant informative post!
I agree with all the points you raise but I think I will still actually buy the ARC if it comes to market without delay especially after seeing the latest blog video demonstrating what I think is the best camera capability of any phone (besides the nokia n8).
I currently own a HTC Legend and while it has had updates (maintenance and OS) it was annoying that the 2.2 update came after Vodafone began rolling out a version for their phones, pretty irritating especially as I had bought the phone with no contract..So it seems no one is free of bad practices..
Regarding the lack of cutting edge hardware I was slightly put off that there was no mention of dual-core, but then I remember I work as an animator for a games studio that works on well known games and its amazing what we can squeeze out of a DS.
But frankly Im after a super fast camera with excellent video capabilities and I haven't really seen that from any other brands as an animator its annoying carrying a camera and a phone for those odd moments I need to grab/video I always forget to charge my camera or its too cumbersome for that 1 moment... but my phone I have it with me always..
flynny said:
But frankly Im after a super fast camera with excellent video capabilities and I haven't really seen that from any other brands as an animator its annoying carrying a camera and a phone for those odd moments I need to grab/video I always forget to charge my camera or its too cumbersome for that 1 moment... but my phone I have it with me always..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks.
Well, the sensor they put in is certainly a level up from most on the market, however, it is again the cheaper of the two possible sensors available. I also understand that the larger (12mpix) sensor would require the phone to be thicker and have a better lens as well as a higher cost.
If SE was really into the PREMIUM market as they claim, they know that the Cybershot variations of their phones have always been beloved by consumers. X10's and the Arc certainly show that the people from the camera section have had input into the design.
This is supposed to be a flagship phone, and there is not a single component that is Outstanding, it's more like the best of the middle ground.
It's always possible that Arc will have brothers and sisters announced at MWC and a bit more differentiation will show up beyond a keyboard or size, but the constant choice of cheaper components (and the reduced internal storage) will certainly cause all the reviewers to comment on the 'below expectations of hardware available at this time' of the devices.
stan.s said:
Let me comment, please.
I have 30 years of IT experience, and 15 of that in application development in FT100 companies.
SE was unable to take part in the astounding demand for new cell phones this year for a number reasons and they don't yet understand the Android philosophy:
1. They were unable to bring X10 family the USA market early.
2. The hardware was excellent when it was announced over two years ago, but they did not make any changes to that hardware to keep that edge. There was no slip-streaming of a better CPU/GPU or "N" wifi etc. SE took advantage of the reduced costs 'by the time' they went to actually manufacture the phones and made design decisions that compromised the performance of the phone, it's upgradeability and saved them money in the parts list.
3. SE continues to not be able to engage serious interest by T-Mobile in SE phones while not one of the two top carriers, is one that they could certainly make a phone for. Equinox is the only phone they are currently selling and only the TM506 prior to that.
4. SE's move to ATL (according to some posts on XDA by former SE Raleigh staff) and the general reduction in programming staff lost those programmers most familiar with the AT&T firmware testing. Historically in the AT&T relationship, AT&T NEVER RELEASED a second firmware for any SE phone even though SE traditionally has released several versions for every phone they have ever made. AT&T has never felt that updates were important for any phone they sold, to them, it is just a pain in the ass. MS forced them to do updates for Windows phones and the contract with Apple didn't give them a choice.
5. Android is supposed to compete with iPhones IOS. One of the ways that makes the iPhone so desirable is that even the old hardware runs the new version of the OS. This means that people who want to stay in grandfathered contracts have a way to resell their old phone to people who don't want to upgrade to a subsidized phone and don't care about the latest and greatest hardware version. Prior model iPhones were selling for $100-$199 just as the last version came out. (Many were shipped to markets not covered by Apple.) This funds the purchase of new models either subsidized or not. Android OS updates make the phones resalable. A Android phone that is out of phase with the latest OS is worthless for resale. SE and other OEMs don't seem to be taking this into account as a part of Apple's strategy to make the iphone have increased value and are not applying it to their own strategy.
6. SE's heads have decided to "not compete on hardware." Well, this is a problem since the people who are looking for Android phones specifically are generally technical and would certainly look at hardware. The X10 was targeted at women as if it was a traditional SE fashion phone with enhanced social networking, all those early ads were showing women using the phone. The Captivate and the X10 arrived within 'days' of each other. The Captivate certainly has the hardware spec advantage over the X10a. Even small things like the internal storage was huge by comparison, as well as the full 512mb ram. Even though the Captivate phone is seriously flawed and fairly ugly, the 'hardware' outsold the X10 by 30x (at AT&T alone). AT&T has not found it necessary to 2-4-1 it or even reduce the pricing significantly, and it was MORE expensive than the X10a through the entire cycle. SE's proud it made 29-30% in the first 3 qtrs 2010 on the phones, but the last quarter I think we will see that number reduced due to the heavy discounting they did to dump the X10's in stock.
SE's so proud of the 30% markup? Apple makes 100%. Samsung was using parts they actually manufactured in other divisions such as the screens, memory and other components, it would not surprise me if they made 50 or 60%.
7. SE didn't listen customers or even to their own employees. SE gave X10's to every SonyStyle store employee to drum up support for sales. Guess what, every SonyStyle employee that I've spoken to, and I have spoken with more than a dozen, either sold the phone right away or gave it away to a family member. I could not find a single employee that actually used it. As a result they didn't really know how to use or demo it in the stores and since many have iPhones or other Android devices didn't even know it didn't have MT (witnessed by them trying to pinch zoom). The actual sale of a phone ( I bought two of these at SonyStyle stores in two different states), was a 'rare' event that the manager used for training other employees. SonyStyle was giving these phones away for Xmas sales with a two year contract, again to dump inventory. Employees when they realized that I was not just some old guy but a technical person were questioning why I would even WANT a X10. (It wasn't so much for the phone as for SE support which I have always liked and the better than run-of-the-mill PC software to link the phone which they butchered with the X10.)
8. Yes, SE never promised 2.2 or MT. (And some of the other companies have reneged or delayed a 2.2/2.3 update for many phones.) As for the global 1year policy, this is terrible, as the phone will only have been in the US for 8 months. However, with the admitted failure to deliver good customer service this year after the reorganization, Android 2.2 or 2.3 would certainly be a good will gesture to the millions of X10 owners and would make the phone worth a few dollars in resale. Only a buy back program for upgrading would be better, though the ARC with less than 300mb internal storage and 512mb ram, an already 6 month old CPU/GPU combo (which is now very cheap) isn't 'cutting edge' by a long shot.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Very good post Stan.S!
If I may comment your points a little.
1. Hopefully this will change with arc. Seems like they have a deal with At&t.
2. Dont think hardware could have been so much better. They are using qualcomm hardware and their better processors are not done yet. Internal ROM could have been better though. More than 512 RAM is not necessary in my opinion.
3. From what you say about At&t, t-mobile seems a lot better
4. Same as above, Im not American so I wouldn't know
5. Again I think this will be better with arc. From what Ive seen here in Sweden, SE representatives seems to be really committed to upgrade their phones. They know they ****ed up.
6. Actually the head of the "heads" (Bert Nordberg) have said in a interview in the biggest economic newspaper here in Sweden that hardware is important and that they intend to win that race also. He said something like "its all about clock speed these days and we intend to take the lead". Its my understanding that Arc is not the über device of this year. It takes a while to plan these things and Bert probably influenced a later device. Also arc seems to be more about the looks and screen than the hardware. Its not a super highend device
7. That sucks. Probably the same everywhere. Hopefully arc will attract some more goodwill than the x10. Problem these days is that everyone has an iphone and wont leave that ecosystem.
8. An "insider" on a Swedish forum gave an explanation to why the x10 wont get 2.2. Apparently the boot loader is totally locked down. Even for SE people. X10 was never going to get 2.2 or even 2.1 for that matter. They cant change the kernel even if they want to. 2.1 was easy because it was the same kernel. SE ****ed up big on that one. Arcs boot loader is not locked down which will make upgrades easier, and a lot easier for xda to crack also
Edit. Link to interview with Bert Nordberg (in Swedish) http://di.se/Artiklar/2010/10/15/217454/Bert-Nordberg-gar-for-tillvaxt/
I like SE cause I tend to care more about hardware then software. When it comes to software I'm not looking for SE I'm looking at the great XDA developers community which is always upgrading every phone way before the manufacture does anyway.
thorstenn said:
7. That sucks. Probably the same everywhere. Hopefully arc will attract some more goodwill than the x10. Problem these days is that everyone has an iphone and wont leave that ecosystem.
8. An "insider" on a Swedish forum gave an explanation to why the x10 wont get 2.2. Apparently the boot loader is totally locked down. Even for SE people. X10 was never going to get 2.2 or even 2.1 for that matter. They cant change the kernel even if they want to. 2.1 was easy because it was the same kernel. SE ****ed up big on that one. Arcs boot loader is not locked down which will make upgrades easier, and a lot easier for xda to crack also
Edit. Link to interview with Bert Nordberg (in Swedish) http://di.se/Artiklar/2010/10/15/217454/Bert-Nordberg-gar-for-tillvaxt/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
7. You say that leaving iPhone is not possible, but it's not true, there are people who wish to no longer be sheep and not straight jacketed. I talked to a couple of people just today who got HTC's when they decided to sell iphones.
8. Wait, they can't put another kernel on due to the bootloader? are you implying that the bootloader runs some sort of a checksum on the kernel or checks a specific offset address for something? There's only a limited number of things that would lock it to a specific kernel.....
i am a business management student...so i thought of sharing my perspective over how Sony Ericsson is playing the smartphone game...
by exagerrating a lot before the product launch ...and after the launch..giving small doses of updates so customers dont change phone in the hope of getting new features.
think of it..
they build great hype for a product months before the launch by strong advertising (probably spending more on ads than R&D itself) , promising a revolutionary interface with ground breaking custom interfaces....X panels for X1 (remember?) and timescape/mediascape (biggest garbage) for X10 ..both over-ambitious
just so they can differentiate from other companies..
ya they have great product design.. which initially attracts impulse buyers...they build anticipation...so we cant wait to get our hands on their phone!
and then they finally launch the product which will NEVER have the latest updates because their entire focus was on marketing the product i.e bringing it to market before competition and capturing market share.
they never really focussed on industry shaking R&D like Apple..c'mon without Apple, touchscreen was a dead market.
and without Android...Apple had a monopoly.
This is revolution....not timescape or mediascape..which are my least favourite apps...battery sucking with extremely slow response rates.
then they ll keep launching small small updates over couple of months...more like over a year...adding little features..so we dont change brand loyalty....giving the wounded customers a faint vision of hope...
finally they release a small update and the entire community goes 'wow' with excitement...like a virgin getting his first blowjob.
by that time..the phone has suffered scratches, has started showing signs of wear..which means very low re-sale value.
and meanwhile announcement for newer model is made...slimmer, sexier with more bugs which will be fixed via update over the next upcoming year.
good strategy for a short-term profit making....but they are losing brand loyalty.
i am not gonna buy SE Xperia Arc...ya its the sexiest phone on the market.
but its like a hot model u bang and can never have a healthy relationship with...coz she is dumb and full of flaws on the inside...such as daddy issues etc.
/rant
its like they keep us jumping over small small updates like a cat does to a string which the master will never let it catch.
but its like a hot model u bang and can never have a healthy relationship with...coz she is dumb and full of flaws on the inside...such as daddy issues etc.
epic comment
well it's true and from your perspective which one is better?
i know getting a big income is the main focus of any company but hey customers loyalty also counts. it's something i hate from sony in general, they keep pushing new tech every year and let the customer to feel outdated
Epic thread.
Sent from my GT-P1000 using XDA App
Couldn't have said it better myself, spot on mate!
Swyped from my ZDZ Froyo X10i
bang on, while i am happy with my x10 as it was my first droid comming from a long **** list of wm devices, i am also not going to be sticking with se, already contemplating the droid 2 global, yes se makes sexy phones but, im looking for something a little more with my next device.
Sent from my X10i using XDA App
Funny thread
so what do you think about HTC's strategy with Desire ( Desire/HD/Z )
Just because they released a better handset after a year of the previous handset's release it doesn't mean that they do not care about brand loyalty...
so what? you want them to stick with the X10 for two years while other competitors advance with technology????
believe it or not, many will buy the ARC, even more that who bought the X10...
Next time, go buy an HTC or Motorola
and by the way, Samsung is locking their bootloader so do not buy a Samsung android so you won't end up whining like many here about unlocking it, unless you like samsung
but despite all that, I would like to thank you for the effort made by you to explain what many of us are not aware of.. it's a good practice for your uni
good luck mate with your studies
Nocturnal310 said:
i am a business management student...so i thought of sharing my perspective over how Sony Ericsson is playing the smartphone game...
by exagerrating a lot before the product launch ...and after the launch..giving small doses of updates so customers dont change phone in the hope of getting new features.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, I wish you luck with the business management, since your management of the English language makes me want to punch babies in the stomach.
Also, replace "Sony Ericsson" with every technology company ever and you have a point.
/thread
iead1 said:
Well, I wish you luck with the business management, since your management of the English language makes me want to punch babies in the stomach.
Also, replace "Sony Ericsson" with every technology company ever and you have a point.
/thread
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Grammar and syntax of the English language is not the point of XDA in MHO...
Very well written, kudos to you Nocturnal310...
@Nocturnal310:
Of course you're right. But as someone said before, you could say this about any company producing technical stuff and you would be right as well. (I expect some very negative comments on what I'm about to say...). I understand your point, but I just don't think that SE is somehow different in their approach from any other company producing consumer goods (is that right? stuff which are bought in great numbers just to be replaced by newer models...you know, we have to watch out for our English, right iead1? ). Thats quite important because we just can't expect infinite support for our product, because sooner or later (the former is more probable) it will get replaced with brand new model with brand new stuff inside making it lot more attractive. The only thing we can complain about is, that the support may have last longer... thats true. But despite all of that, I'm still not changing the brand loyalty as I just dont know what else should I buy next time. I dont like Apple and their iStuff, also don't like HTCs because of how they look. Samsung is an option, but if I should choose between Samsung and SE just by looking at the phones, SE would definitely win (and with Samsung locking their bootloaders as well, I wouldn't help myself much by buying it). You may call me a hardcore fan of SE who doesn't think about what he's buying, but thats not me. I just think that X10 was an unfortunate mistake (which I personally still love!) of SE and I really hope they will learn from it for the reasons mentioned above.
Thats my opinion and I do not force anyone to share it, but I wanted to say it, because I just don't uderstand all that poeople saying how betrayed they feel by SE.
i think SE`s problem is that they don`t really know what they do,at least so far.
they use UIQ for a while then they leave it.
they use win mo,but after x1 and x2 they desided to go for android.
but now Android is very good platform and they should find their way.i hope so.
their main mistake is that they don`t care about customers and the weak points of their products.
I must add my mustard ...
There was a time long ago, Sony Ericsson created really nice phones with a solid build quality. My x10 is 3 weeks old and is making crazy noises when twisted a bit. The whole frame is not stiff enough.
If I saw it right on arc video presentations at youtube, the crappy timescape is now a widget and it is still choppy. This uggly blue is still there. Why blue? SE colors are Green and Orange. What a bunch of stupid designers ... I think w'll have a lot of alternatives out there with lesser crappy UI-Mods.
Well, I agree with most of your points, but let's remember: they're not ceasing support, they're launching a new model and planningto lock x10 customers in outdated Android. Motorola intended to do that too, but customers did such a big buzz that they changed their minds. The bull**** about low performance on Android 2.2 is already discarded, we can see that on all the unofficially built ROMs available at xda-forums. I risk to say that even Google has his part on this entire drama. Obviously, Sony Ericsson and their UXP loaded with much more processing hunger than x10 can support is the one we should blame, because we chose to buy SE, not Google devices (which are HTC, actually ). The removal of MediaScape from Arc tells us that they know where the problem is. Let's hope they fix this "problem" on x10 too.
I truly hope no one takes my comments personally, since I'm just expressing my opinion as a SE consumer. I still like them, but not how they use my money.
Sent from my X10a using XDA App
Apple Iphone 3G is still getting latest updates - same day as the latest iPhone 4, not ALL the features because it's got old hardware but there aware of that.
SE should be aware of it to, yes x10 can run 2.1 2.2, 2.3 ect so they should. There opinion is why there not updating. (why not the majority, the users decide)
Why can't we get hardware based updates? HTC magic/hero got tons of updates..
Yes new models will come out, but it's the same OS to update, not that much off a difference, our devs do there work in spare time and takes 2-3 weeks to come up with ASOP OS, (which is what i prefer anyway). Imagine an entire DEV team full time? yes it takes more time for testing ect but still.....
At least SE have reconized they F'd up. that's the first step!
robbyf66 said:
At least SE have reconized they F'd up. that's the first step!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They say a lot. Saying and doing are not the same.
moacyrfilho said:
The removal of MediaScape from Arc tells us that they know where the problem is. Let's hope they fix this "problem" on x10 too.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think they removed the mediascape app because it was so hard to new people to find the music player and photo gallery.
just think about it:
you have a new phone, and you would like to play some music, you first go to the music player but you can't find it because there is no music icon on the menu
Grab a samsung phone and try to play some music, the player is called "Music", the video player is "Videos" and the gallery is "Gallery"
robbyf66 said:
Apple Iphone 3G is still getting latest updates - same day as the latest iPhone 4, not ALL the features because it's got old hardware but there aware of that.
SE should be aware of it to, yes x10 can run 2.1 2.2, 2.3 ect so they should. There opinion is why there not updating. (why not the majority, the users decide)
Why can't we get hardware based updates? HTC magic/hero got tons of updates..
Yes new models will come out, but it's the same OS to update, not that much off a difference, our devs do there work in spare time and takes 2-3 weeks to come up with ASOP OS, (which is what i prefer anyway). Imagine an entire DEV team full time? yes it takes more time for testing ect but still.....
At least SE have reconized they F'd up. that's the first step!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You are comparing with 2 companies with different calibers.
Apple - every designer/ad agency/design house/design school in this world purchase their 'godly' machines for work purposes. And these macs don't come cheap, mind you. With that amount of revenue, they can afford to create an iPhone, using their 'lagless' (yeah, right) macintosh reputations to breed a colony of iZombies to support their cause.
With the iZombies having the need to own a iAmagodlyproduct, with such supporters pumping money into their pockets, they can afford to offset any losses by being nice to
Update old iPhones even if new models are out, cos they know iZombies are already impressed with them playing the nice card and that they are confident that with their good reputation and a better new phone out, A majority of iZombies who have too much money to spare will still buy it. They are just giving an aww-I understand-you-can't-afford-a-new-phone-yet-so-I-will-update-you-periodically-so-that-you-will-come-back-to-me-when-you-have-money message to the poorer parties.
Now for Sony Ericsson (or just insert any other brand names). Let me ask you. Though they are an established brand, but let me ask you, how many people will own 1 of those expensive TVs or VAIOS? Comparing with Apple, no competition.
They don't have that much extra revenue to play nice. They can only strategize and try to earn as such as possible before their products become obsolete.
It's just like people like Donald Trump, who has so much money to play with, he can just give away to some random person on the street if he wants to. But if you try doing up a business yourself, would you give away your money to charity organizations, knowing that you cannot afford to spend the money that way? Most probably not. Unless you don't mind closing down your business due to losses.
All these threads are getting sooooooo repetitive!!! There should be one big sticky for anyone who wants to ***** and complain in any way shape and form about SE. That way this form isn't flooded with every thread turning into a SE bashing thread. It really is getting tiring logging on to see what's new and the first 50 threads are people *****in about SE.
Sent from my X10a using XDA App
Lonelee - agree with much of what you say.. but it is also true that there are many many many people who go back time and time again to buy the next apple product BECAUSE they know that Apple will not leave the OS lagging behind on the old device when a new one comes out.. it's spectacularly good brand loyalty. SE (and many other) are taking a very short term view, and a missing a great opportunity to get us all on the hook for the next product..
In the UK for example, many phones bought on contract are free with a 2 yr contract tie in.. so if I know that they will look after me for 2 years, then I'll go back for more.. my contract's not due until Feb 2012.. so I'm eagerly awaiting to see their behaviour over the next 12 months!
well I m back on XDA after exiting from blackberry platform...blackberry provided me a stable messaging device for a while but as needs changed, it was very poor for browsing and getting work with attachments done.
i was at a party few weeks ago and my friend took out his Xperia Z claiming this is the best camera phone.
to his disappointment, it was the darkest blurriest pic i have seen whereas my lumia 920 took a pic with DSLR-like clarity and image characteristics.
i am not sure how much sony has improved but seems like they are still a market follower and using marketing dollars to brag about their phones that do not perform as advertised.
after having wasted my student savings on 2 of their phones, I regret and wish I had bought a better phone for my first android experience.
product lifecycle
Hi,
I am not sure if I should blame any company for moving to newer (and maybe better) products. In the android phone market we have the nearly unique situation to be able to get our hands and minds at the software which is driving the product, at least partly.
This is quite different from cars or coffeemakers.
What I would like to from Sony is that when they decide to abandon a product (eg X10), they open up the sources of drivers etc, so that interested people can maintain their products for themselves.
I can understand that they wont open up the sources for current products.
A.
I have begun posting comments every time I find an article on SonyEricsson's Xperia arc advising consumers looking for phones to take into consideration SE's current history of updates for the existing Xperia X10 series which are all still under contract. If a lot of us just continue doing this, then SonyEricsson will see these comments -- and consumers will think twice about getting a SE phone when there are other choices available.
Below is what I wrote on a couple of recent articles on the Xperia arc. Please feel free to amend this to suit your purposes. Also, please improve on my attempt and post your scripts for other people to post -- and provide links to some of the high traffic sites. Because SonyEricsson really is demonstrating its commitment now, spreading these messages really does have promise to force SonyEricsson to change course -- if they want to continue selling phones!
With contracts being typically 2 years, SonyEricsson's decision to abandon updates to the Xperia X10 series in less than one year is disgraceful, especially with the benefits of 2.2 (adobe flash, install to SD, processor optimizations, etc.).
And with SonyEricsson demonstrating this attitude with the existing, high-performance Xperia X10 series (which is more than capable of running 2.2, 2.3, and later), why would anyone trust them to do any different on the new Xperia arc?
The meaning of SonyEricsson's choices now are obvious to informed consumers: if you want to get the improvements to your phone that come from new versions of android, avoid SonyEricsson. HTC and others have a *much better* track record for providing updates to their customers.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
omg, people are tired of this ****.
/Close thread please.
Are you braindead enough to think that SE doesn't know we would like newer Android versions?
They're a business, not a charity. They can't afford to keep updating old phones, or no one will buy their newer ones. Simple as that.
If we just sit here and take it, then SE will be content to dish it out. If, otoh, we even appear to be able to dissuade new customers from going with SE, then they will support us because it is in SE's interest.
That. is. simple.
Better get to work then. Samsung ain't doing so hot with updates either. HTC has stopped with their older phones as well. Motorola has ignored a lot of its non-Verizon Droids.
What's left? The iPhone?
iead1 said:
Better get to work then. Samsung ain't doing so hot with updates either. HTC has stopped with their older phones as well. Motorola has ignored a lot of its non-Verizon Droids.
What's left? The iPhone?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Pretty much this. I'm all for complaining, but if you want up-to-date software, you have two choices: iphone or nexus.
I don't think that it's wasted effort to complain. How else would companies know how to service their customers better? Personally, I've given up on pretty much every manufacturer. As much as I hate apple, I'm pretty tempted to get an iphone if they were compatible with T-mobile's 3g just for the continued support because I'm not super happy with the design of the nexus line.
i try to do this in many facebook post under SE`s pages.
it better than nothing
Great another idiotic thread.
Sent from my X10i using XDA App
iead1 said:
Are you braindead enough to think that SE doesn't know we would like newer Android versions?
They're a business, not a charity. They can't afford to keep updating old phones, or no one will buy their newer ones. Simple as that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Old phone?
It was launched in March 2010.
the funniest thing about these threads are the people that go on to say... "Great another idiotic thread"
or
"Are you braindead enough to think that SE doesn't know we would like newer Android versions? They're a business, not a charity. They can't afford to keep updating old phones, or no one will buy their newer ones. Simple as that."
If you really think these things are that stupid, why do you even bother clicking on them when it clearly states what the thread is about... in this case anyway. Are you guys really that big of losers in life that you can't go by on the internet without clicking every single thread or do you just have that much time on your hands?
Either way i am sure some of us have come to a conclusion as to who the actual "idiot" or "braindead" is.
Oh and may i suggest some charity work if you have too much time on your hands?
Not a bad intention, but all these efforts are useless to "fight" against this. SE won't do things in the way people want. None of the other companies either will.
So why just don't give up and buy Arc? SE will happy for getting your $$$ preference again, and you'll be happy too 'cause you'll be in the top of the trend and with a phone with Gingerbread, the newest Android version. END.
***
Seriously, this has been discussed enough already.
I agree the entitlement generation needs to stop crying. However, threads like this one offer a solution to the problem, which I would support. Freedom of speech has been effective in creating change all over the world and throughout history. You cant change anything if you don't try. Those of you who post to close this thread are doing the same thing, just counterproductive.
Sent from my X10a using XDA App
just why bother? if they did (for whatever reason) decide to release a SE 2.2 or above, it would be so full of bloatware that any benefit would be gone anyway. ive been running zdzihu's 2.2 froyo ROM for ages on mine, and there is a 2.3 gingerbread ROM that Jerpelea has made out even. Yes they are beta, or even alpha, but even if SE said yep we are doing it, they would take another 6 months to get it out - dont you think the custom 2.2, 2.3 would be just about perfect by then?
support the DEVS, not the global companies
stuff SE - i hate there roms anyway!
iead1 said:
Better get to work then. Samsung ain't doing so hot with updates either. HTC has stopped with their older phones as well. Motorola has ignored a lot of its non-Verizon Droids.
What's left? The iPhone?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
define old phones
if you say a 3 years old phone ok then it's ok not a phone with less thn 1 year of life span
alankstiyo said:
define old phones
if you say a 3 years old phone ok then it's ok not a phone with less thn 1 year of life span
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This device is good. It's freakin sexy. It's capable of running Froyo and Gingerbread. Until the new SE devices come out, this is their flagship phone.
I repeat, this phone is sexy, even next to the Arc, it still looks sexy and relevant. The innards are still relevant.
I don't understand why it's being treated like the SE bastard child.
We're in the driver's seat. Why not grab the wheel?
violentgoomba said:
I don't understand why it's being treated like the SE bastard child.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Because SonyEricsson is gambling they can get away with it.
The mass of users typically just complain to each other after they've already got the device and seen its limitations. "I'll never buy another one of their products!" But that is where it ends. Flashy ads for new products can overcome that kind of friction from scattered individuals.
But SonyEricsson needs good press to sell their new phones, and if the current users of SE phones are telling everyone in the venues promoting the new phones how SE is refusing to update what they have now, potential customers will be turned away.
Maybe this hasn't happened before because there was no android OS to make this all so transparent. Now it is easy for everyone to understand. New customers and old all speak the same language: android! If SE has current devices that are technically capable and they aren't keeping them up to date, why would they do so with their next device? They won't. The arc still has the Timescape and Mediascape cruft that is making the updates so hard; that hasn't changed. And the arc is going to have a single-core processor when the competitors will be pushing out phones with dual-cores. SE will predictably move from the arc as soon as they can and shift all their focus to the next phone. Repeat. Repeat. Repeat.
SE is in a pattern of peddling near non-update-able phones. We just have to say that often enough, and they will change -- period.
And with the limited number of high-volume review sites, just one person would make a difference. A dozen or so posting thoughtful messages would be able to keep the issue visible on all the top-tier sites. A few hundred customers searching and posting just a few times a week each would keep the issue front and center on virtually every site of importance to SonyEricsson. SE would hope the protest would fizzle. But why would we undercut ourselves like lead1, "They can't afford to keep updating old phones, or no one will buy their newer ones. Simple as that" and caifanX10, "So why just don't give up and buy Arc? SE will happy for getting your $$$ preference again"?
The kind of protest I'm talking about here is easy to do; it has motivated, dissatisfied customers steaming now; and SE can't really get around it. We are in charge; we merely need to do something.
this is a young phone (less than a year old) with old software (more than a year old OS)
I agree with the Update, some products are still on support after several years on the market, the idea of support is to patch the vulnerabilities and improve the overall performance. If SE can do it with available Android OS why not?
shonangreg said:
Because SonyEricsson is gambling they can get away with it.
The mass of users typically just complain to each other after they've already got the device and seen its limitations. "I'll never buy another one of their products!" But that is where it ends. Flashy ads for new products can overcome that kind of friction from scattered individuals.
But SonyEricsson needs good press to sell their new phones, and if the current users of SE phones are telling everyone in the venues promoting the new phones how SE is refusing to update what they have now, potential customers will be turned away.
Maybe this hasn't happened before because there was no android OS to make this all so transparent. Now it is easy for everyone to understand. New customers and old all speak the same language: android! If SE has current devices that are technically capable and they aren't keeping them up to date, why would they do so with their next device? They won't. The arc still has the Timescape and Mediascape cruft that is making the updates so hard; that hasn't changed. And the arc is going to have a single-core processor when the competitors will be pushing out phones with dual-cores. SE will predictably move from the arc as soon as they can and shift all their focus to the next phone. Repeat. Repeat. Repeat.
SE is in a pattern of peddling near non-update-able phones. We just have to say that often enough, and they will change -- period.
And with the limited number of high-volume review sites, just one person would make a difference. A dozen or so posting thoughtful messages would be able to keep the issue visible on all the top-tier sites. A few hundred customers searching and posting just a few times a week each would keep the issue front and center on virtually every site of importance to SonyEricsson. SE would hope the protest would fizzle. But why would we undercut ourselves like lead1, "They can't afford to keep updating old phones, or no one will buy their newer ones. Simple as that" and caifanX10, "So why just don't give up and buy Arc? SE will happy for getting your $$$ preference again"?
The kind of protest I'm talking about here is easy to do; it has motivated, dissatisfied customers steaming now; and SE can't really get around it. We are in charge; we merely need to do something.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How do you expect anyone to believe or support someone who doesn't know what he's talking about?
There will be NO mediascape in ARC
SINGLE-CORE is available in GOOGLE's FLAGSHIP, so any dual-core is just to attract people who are easy to attract with the ( 4G-dualcore ) stuff
Have you actually seen the changes made in the ARC?
2.2 is a waste of time
shonangreg said:
I have begun posting comments every time I find an article on SonyEricsson's Xperia arc advising consumers looking for phones to take into consideration SE's current history of updates for the existing Xperia X10 series which are all still under contract. If a lot of us just continue doing this, then SonyEricsson will see these comments -- and consumers will think twice about getting a SE phone when there are other choices available.
Below is what I wrote on a couple of recent articles on the Xperia arc. Please feel free to amend this to suit your purposes. Also, please improve on my attempt and post your scripts for other people to post -- and provide links to some of the high traffic sites. Because SonyEricsson really is demonstrating its commitment now, spreading these messages really does have promise to force SonyEricsson to change course -- if they want to continue selling phones!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How about you get a part time job and spend your time earning some money instead? Then you could buy what ever phone you like.
HYPER-X10 said:
How about you get a part time job and spend your time earning some money instead? Then you could buy what ever phone you like.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The OP is offering a constructive alternative to the whining going on at xda. Here we are whining amongst ourselves. Whiners whining about the whiners. This offers an outlet for the frustrations of those let down by SE, that would reduce the whining on xda, and potentially effect SE in some way.
Sent from my X10a using XDA App
Sony Ericsson will let you unlock the bootloader on new Xperia Android phones -- subject to conditions:
http://www.engadget.com/2011/03/29/sony-ericsson-will-let-you-unlock-bootloader-on-new-xperia-andro/
Unlocking the boot loader in the new Xperia™ smartphones:
http://blogs.sonyericsson.com/devel...e-boot-loader-in-the-new-xperia™-smartphones/
Any news from Motorola on their promise to allow the dev community to modify their new phones or is their word as good as dirt once again?
i am buying the new Xperia play. i need that phone in my life for gaming. i am also very intrested in the arc. its sexy as hell with a bravia engine for the screen. i am impressed
i am really very impressed by this attitude. bravo to them. i am so excited
all i can say is **** you Moto. learn from the smart company that cares about its customers and care about the hardcore people.
once the xperia play is out. i am buying " this coming week i assume "
absolutely wrong section...........
cegna09 said:
absolutely wrong section...........
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
you are right. he posted it in the wrong forum. but i think he posted it here for a reason. we are pissed. and Sony is doing it right. if that company which is bigger than motorolla, can understand, why moto cant ?
here's the part that i don't get. Yes it's annoying that moto is so locked down, but it's not like it was any surprise to anyone. They have a history of it, a well known history. They've been working on the droid X since it came out, with about no success, and yet everyone that bought the atrix is screaming about how it should be broken. My question is, if you really wanted a hackable phone, why did you choose this one? You could have gone with something else, even if that meant waiting for other phones to come to AT&T. i believe at&t is launching something like 22+ phones this year?
cegna09 said:
absolutely wrong section...........
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And now the mods have moved it.
cegna09 said:
here's the part that i don't get. Yes it's annoying that moto is so locked down, but it's not like it was any surprise to anyone. They have a history of it, a well known history. They've been working on the droid X since it came out, with about no success, and yet everyone that bought the atrix is screaming about how it should be broken. My question is, if you really wanted a hackable phone, why did you choose this one? You could have gone with something else, even if that meant waiting for other phones to come to AT&T. i believe at&t is launching something like 22+ phones this year?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think that some people bought the phone because Motorola said that they would provide a solution that allowed developers to access the phone (these people are the "Good Faith" purchasers). I believe that Motorola said it first on their YouTube account (after the Motorola employee responsible for replying to comments there said basically what you said above but with fewer words and in a rather rude tone) and then again on their support forums where they said that they hoped to have a solution in place before the 30-day AT&T return policy expired. Motorola may also have said something similar on their Facebook page but I'm not sure.
Other people bought the phone because they didn't understand that Motorola's encrypted bootloaders have never been broken. They are the ones that say stuff like "everything's hackable", which may actually be true but is meaningless in reality unless you also include a timeframe and I don't think that most people want to wait ten trillion years for a brute force crack of a bootloader.
I, on the other hand, decided to wait and see what Motorola would do before making a purchase and so far it's not looking good but I am still hopeful.
ll_l_x_l_ll said:
i am buying the new Xperia play. i need that phone in my life for gaming. i am also very intrested in the arc. its sexy as hell with a bravia engine for the screen. i am impressed
i am really very impressed by this attitude. bravo to them. i am so excited
all i can say is **** you Moto. learn from the smart company that cares about its customers and care about the hardcore people.
once the xperia play is out. i am buying " this coming week i assume "
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Have you read the engadget review? Us recommend looking through that before making any decisions regarding the Play..
Sent from my MB860 using XDA App
DuoM said:
I think that some people bought the phone because Motorola said that they would provide a solution that allowed developers to access the phone (these people are the "Good Faith" purchasers). I believe that Motorola said it first on their YouTube account (after the Motorola employee responsible for replying to comments there said basically what you said above but with fewer words and in a rather rude tone) and then again on their support forums where they said that they hoped to have a solution in place before the 30-day AT&T return policy expired. Motorola may also have said something similar on their Facebook page but I'm not sure.
Other people bought the phone because they didn't understand that Motorola's encrypted bootloaders have never been broken. They are the ones that say stuff like "everything's hackable", which may actually be true but is meaningless in reality unless you also include a timeframe and I don't think that most people want to wait ten trillion years for a brute force crack of a bootloader.
I, on the other hand, decided to wait and see what Motorola would do before making a purchase and so far it's not looking good but I am still hopeful.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I guess I should add another group of people: Those who didn't understand that getting root was not the same as cracking the bootloader but heard that devs had root even before the phone was released.
DuoM said:
I guess I should add another group of people: Those who didn't understand that getting root was not the same as cracking the bootloader but heard that devs had root even before the phone was released.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
researching a subject before purchasing is something everyone should learn......
you wouldn't go out and just buy the first car you find, you'd find the one that matches your needs the best.
If you have not already signed the petition and you feel it is worth it, please do so.
http://www.groubal.com/motorola-lockedencrypted-bootloader-policy/
DuoM said:
And now the mods have moved it.
I think that some people bought the phone because Motorola said that they would provide a solution that allowed developers to access the phone (these people are the "Good Faith" purchasers). I believe that Motorola said it first on their YouTube account (after the Motorola employee responsible for replying to comments there said basically what you said above but with fewer words and in a rather rude tone) and then again on their support forums where they said that they hoped to have a solution in place before the 30-day AT&T return policy expired. Motorola may also have said something similar on their Facebook page but I'm not sure.
Other people bought the phone because they didn't understand that Motorola's encrypted bootloaders have never been broken. They are the ones that say stuff like "everything's hackable", which may actually be true but is meaningless in reality unless you also include a timeframe and I don't think that most people want to wait ten trillion years for a brute force crack of a bootloader.
I, on the other hand, decided to wait and see what Motorola would do before making a purchase and so far it's not looking good but I am still hopeful.
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Click to collapse
this . exactly this. when Moto said they will give some access to devs. i thought they are going the HTC way and not Sony way.
now HTC went Moto Way and Sony went the HTC way.
i mean, how stupid can these companies be ? seriously ? sony released the Xperia X10. a beauitiful device and early in UK. people didnt buy it because it was locked. Sony learned from their mistake. new phones? open for you to play with.
HTC ? thery were doing fine. alot of sales. nice devices. they saw Sony failing because of their locked ****. they saw Motorolla devices are not selling very high after they locked them down " thus, sales of new the devices is much less than the droid 1 " as far as i know " i dont have data "
how hard is it to understand when a phone has no community, its a DOA phone ?
chbearsrock said:
Have you read the engadget review? Us recommend looking through that before making any decisions regarding the Play..
Sent from my MB860 using XDA App
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i did. my only concern is about the screen brightness, from the videos i have seen its fine. i know its not a powerful device like tegra 2. but i am in for the gaming since i am gamer " speaking of which. i know its OT but how is the 3DS ? pass till NGP ?"
i think PS emulator and N64/SNES/GEn Emulators will be amazing on this phone and i will be finally able to have all the old classics on one system + whatever new games comes out will be fine as well.
looking at tegra zone specific games, i dont have much hope to get alot of games on it. and that difference in the games isnt even big at all.
plus the phone looks sexy as hell with its curves. and the screen is really pretty. i know its an LCD but for some reason sony screens look much better than a normal LCD screen, " and if the xperia play is SLCD, then i am happy panda "
chbearsrock said:
Have you read the engadget review?
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Click to collapse
yes. the review said all the goodness could be blocked or overridden by carrier demands/requests.
all hype, no go!
Sent via Tapatalk & Swype
ll_l_x_l_ll said:
i did. my only concern is about the screen brightness, from the videos i have seen its fine. i know its not a powerful device like tegra 2. but i am in for the gaming since i am gamer " speaking of which. i know its OT but how is the 3DS ? pass till NGP ?"
i think PS emulator and N64/SNES/GEn Emulators will be amazing on this phone and i will be finally able to have all the old classics on one system + whatever new games comes out will be fine as well.
looking at tegra zone specific games, i dont have much hope to get alot of games on it. and that difference in the games isnt even big at all.
plus the phone looks sexy as hell with its curves. and the screen is really pretty. i know its an LCD but for some reason sony screens look much better than a normal LCD screen, " and if the xperia play is SLCD, then i am happy panda "
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'd wait for the NGP, mostly because of a personal distaste for the screen tech of the 3DS.
As for the Play, I'd be concerned about a lot more than just the dim display. Battery life, an outdated processor, and RAM specs that aren't even really in line with last-gen tech all make it seem like one would be better off buying a more future-ready phone that's compatible with the Android Playstation games. Especially if bought on contract -- in 2 years the Play will be 4 years outdated. I was really looking forward to a solid gaming phone, but this just doesn't seem to be it. Now by no means am I saying the Atrix is the better gaming alternative...only that the Play has some seemingly unsurpassable issues that dedicated gaming controls can't make up for. Then again...until the phone actually comes out, who knows?
chbearsrock said:
I'd wait for the NGP, mostly because of a personal distaste for the screen tech of the 3DS.
As for the Play, I'd be concerned about a lot more than just the dim display. Battery life, an outdated processor, and RAM specs that aren't even really in line with last-gen tech all make it seem like one would be better off buying a more future-ready phone that's compatible with the Android Playstation games. Especially if bought on contract -- in 2 years the Play will be 4 years outdated. I was really looking forward to a solid gaming phone, but this just doesn't seem to be it. Now by no means am I saying the Atrix is the better gaming alternative...only that the Play has some seemingly unsurpassable issues that dedicated gaming controls can't make up for. Then again...until the phone actually comes out, who knows?
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Click to collapse
the last thing i care about is ram. atrix had 1 gig ram and only 170 was free for me only most of the time. as long as its running efficient, then i could care less.
the gpu is not out dated. its same as desire hd. decent. in line with the galaxy S and nexus S. not top of the line tho like the atrix i admit.
ll_l_x_l_ll said:
the last thing i care about is ram. atrix had 1 gig ram and only 170 was free for me only most of the time. as long as its running efficient, then i could care less.
the gpu is not out dated. its same as desire hd. decent. in line with the galaxy S and nexus S. not top of the line tho like the atrix i admit.
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Click to collapse
lol galaxy s is in line with tegra desire nor where near
Now that Sony Ericsson has taken a leap forward which really is a surprise considering that they have taken a tough stance on unlocking anything. This would put more pressure to Motorola if they need to get a bigger piece of the pie. For sure Motorola is surprised that Sony Ericsson took a different path.
After all, it does make sense that if you have a great piece of hardware and you let the community take a hold of it, word will spread and more consumers will take a note and purchase it.
Guaranteed that ATnT is probably disappointed with some consumers returning their Atrix. I also doubt Bell Canada is breaking open the champagne here when across the store there are more ppl lining up for the iPAD2 than for the Atrix.
The ball is in Motorola's court. Time for them to make a move and less replying on facebook.
To ALL,
I just had an idea that might actually force the Motorola to update our Atrix.
Before you think: "Is it another mobilization? No use, will not go nowhere," let me explain:
Actually, since there was a huge mobilization in this direction, but unfortunately, nowadays, petitions (signatures) no longer work as before.
Today petitions has very little visibility, limited almost only one who signed himself. This is not enough to achieve the target company directly, and even if we reach a sufficient number to lawsuits, companies have good lawyers that can prolong the process for years ...
Thus, when we can force the Motorola Atrix update to 4.0, we'll be running 8.0 on other phones ... Unfortunately it does.
Therefore, I am proposing a new form of mobilization, which will not reach the courts, but will use freedom of expression to reach the Motorola where it really hurts, in their public image!
We have seen many cases where "viral videos" have reached millions of hits and really solved certain problems. This is because the company's image just impaired, and it will always want to improve your public image again.
Anyway, the idea is the same, VIRAL VIDEOS.
But not just a video with millions of hits, but thousands of videos!
The idea is each record its own video, which should be short, with only a few seconds, stating the following sentence: MOTOROLA, UPDATE MY PHONE!
- You can record video wherever and however you want, if possible showing the phone, so that everyone knows that this is an Atrix.
- You can supplement with more phrases, like: DO NOT LET DIE ATRIX, or ATRIX IS AN EXCELLENT PHONE, or STOP DISRESPECT THE CONSUMER.
- If you have sufficient knowledge, feel free to make videos more elaborate, like this or this (I’m from Brazilm and I don’t know others international samples).
LET US FILL ALL YOUTUBE WITH THESE VIDEOS!
Post here your links to your videos, share links on social networks, to publish as much as possible!
Soon I'll be doing mine, and you?
Wow this is good idea Thanks
No.
Stop begging. Stop humiliating yourself.
You won't get your Atrix updated.
The only real cure is to stop purchasing anything Motorola has to offer.
Ignore them! The same way they ignore you.
I bought myself a Nexus 4.
I have to agree with the 'stop' sentiments. The arrogance of the person who was supposedly in charge of Atrix development is plain for everyone to see here http://sourceforge.net/motorola/atrix/discussion/general_comments/thread/5b551bd6/?limit=25&page=0
'
Gopi Palaniappan
6 days ago
Dear Leon,
I am that committed Motorola resource What is it that you need besides the ICS kernel sources that we are already working on? btw..I have done some kernel hacking myself in my past life so its not like I don't understand what this is all about.
I am not saying that because I am an ego-maniac I seriously want to help where I can. I can't pull out engineers working on critical stuff to come to this forum and listen to rants. If you want their help, you need to ask yourself "what is it that I want to ask them when they are assigned to me( besides ICS kernel )".
AFAIK, there is no other request besides the ICS kernel. Also, I have been on direct IM with people who have been working on porting ICS on their own and even they have said that the only way to make progress is to get the entire kernel source.
Before I can go to engineering and ask for support, I need to know what they are going to be doing. That would help me determine which door I need to knock.
You can't blindly ask for engineering support. There are many people with varying skillsets working on various projects. I cannot just commit to assign a resource when I don't know who & what for. So when I mean " Assigning internal developers on this will not be possible" I meant I am still understanding what the community wants besides ICS kernel.
Lastly, No matter what I say, the community perception ain't going to change until we deliver something. We understand that very well. I think I have been as honest as I can be on this forum. We need to get appropriate clearance from carriers, partners and vendors to release software that never shipped out. You cant just go to them and demand for it. At the same time we don't want to jeopardize any other negotiations that may be going on with them. There is timing involved as well as cost/benefit projections. And you'd be surprised that after all the crap that gets posted, Motorola is still committed to try to make it happen.
Hope that puts the question of commitments to rest. Lets move on..
We want to see more posts in this format:
Hey Motorola, I am stuck because I ran into this problem [INSERT YOUR PROBLEM HERE]. I am trying to do this [INSERT YOUR GOALS or WHAT YOU WANT TO ACCOMPLISH].
I have contacted the forums and have also tried to do this [INSERT ANY WORKAROUNDS AND RESULTS] but still have no luck.
I think you can really help me in these areas [INSERT SPECIFIC HELP YOU NEED]
And btw, the stuff I am working on is really cool and will benefit the world in the following ways[INSERT THE BENEFITS]
====
I'd like to hear anything besides request for kernel sources, unlocking bootloader, rooting the device.'
enough said. Pricks.
maajstor said:
No.
Stop begging. Stop humiliating yourself.
You won't get your Atrix updated.
The only real cure is to stop purchasing anything Motorola has to offer.
Ignore them! The same way they ignore you.
I bought myself a Nexus 4.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is just exactly what Motorola wants hear from us. "We are give it up this update..."
YES, I'll follow this mobilization. Motorola will never hear us until its flag will stained with its own neglect.
Follow me who wants your update.
Good idea bro. Even if we don't support motorola in purchasing their product, there are many people out there than us especially those who upgraded to latest Moto devices that support Moto. And they will never give a damn unless we staind them in public.
Sent from my Motorola Atrix 4G
u know i dont really care for the update... i just want to use my phone like i want so i think to release the kernel source or source code would be better. Getting that would be higher. If u are unsatisfied with the atrix get another phone and learn from the past: "if want update. Buy A Nexus!!". i only bought atrix because of the lapdock if u dont use it than u phone choice was slightly bad.
Just for and end: Just use that u already have and if u complain then u choice was just bad. Learn from the mistakes, thats life
I was in your shoes once. Move on, accept you won't get an update and make sure you remember this when you buy a new phone.
I bought a Nexus 4. Came with Android 4.2, awesome build quality and specs and not to mention so cheap. Stick with the Nexus line in the future.
coolnow said:
I was in your shoes once. Move on, accept you won't get an update and make sure you remember this when you buy a new phone.
I bought a Nexus 4. Came with Android 4.2, awesome build quality and specs and not to mention so cheap. Stick with the Nexus line in the future.
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Click to collapse
NOOOO!!!, Just No!
My first videos:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BAA1gfnfaWU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GfqGcKacI0c
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pDD_AjDC4CU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DX0TTysucYo
I think this is a great idea.
And for those saying that you are tired of this and that we should move to another phone, not all of us live in great countries like united states where this stuff is actually cheap, i paid a fortune for this phone 7 months ago and i really cant pay again for another phone that is updated, not that i dont have money, but in my country phones are too ****ing expensive for just tossing them into the trash when we dont like them anymore, so shut the hell up and leave this forum if you already bought another beautiful smartphone, but there is a lot of us which can't buy another one so every shot we have to make motorola suffer and give us hope for an update, is more than enough.
Goodbye!
Here at Brazil, a nexus 4 costs about US$ 1000, not only US$399 or less that it costs at USA.
Here, a Xiaomi MI2 costs about US$ 900, a Razr HD about US$ 800, and the Atrix about US$ 500, the same as an used Galaxy Nexus. They are very expensive phones. I can't simply buy another and abandon it.
So, I'll really fight for this update!
danilocps87 said:
Here at Brazil, a nexus 4 costs about US$ 1000, not only US$399 or less that it costs at USA.
Here, a Xiaomi MI2 costs about US$ 900, a Razr HD about US$ 800, and the Atrix about US$ 500, the same as an used Galaxy Nexus. They are very expensive phones. I can't simply buy another and abandon it.
So, I'll really fight for this update!
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Click to collapse
i can understand u. thats means u bought a phone so u can get the update and the functions. But life isnt like that... motorola is going to go down so i am thinking that they dont care anymore about the old phones because its too old. They have to make better phones (razr, razr i,...) that means to develop webtop,ics or something else its not worth for old phones.
Sry to say but u have live with it or fight against motorola but it only waste some time and nerves... for norhthing
With due respect to all the people on this thread, i urge everyone to stop courting/begging/demanding Motorola to release at least something that our devs could work with. There's a far greater chance of our in-house devs coming up with a working kernel for JB than Motorola listening to all the dissatisfied voices.
Guys, please stop to post here only to say "stop with this".
If you really don't believe in the idea here, respect the much others than believe, and just share the videos!
Thanks!
maajstor said:
No.
Stop begging. Stop humiliating yourself.
You won't get your Atrix updated.
The only real cure is to stop purchasing anything Motorola has to offer.
Ignore them! The same way they ignore you.
I bought myself a Nexus 4.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It is a known fact that it's Google that pulled the plug on the Atrix. So you basically just gave your money to the same motherf****
It is a real shame, such a great phone..
Motofail..
A great phone
A great hardware for me
But support of the motorola is a great FAIL
Enviado de meu MB860 usando o Tapatalk 2
Tiagodanielfb said:
A great phone
A great hardware for me
But support of the motorola is a great FAIL
Enviado de meu MB860 usando o Tapatalk 2
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Who need motorola when we have greats devs here in xda? ...I cant sell my atrix and buy a new phone...but my hopes are on mmontouri and kristianp...
Sent from my MB860 using xda premium
For those that think Moto will die, I have this to say:
Google bought them out, and Google is both honorable to us and respectful to our privacy. Just look at their privacy policy if you think they sell the information they collect. They don't. What they collect, they use for the sole purpose of improving their own products. I have a brother working for Google as in idea development, and a dear friend working for Google in the security dept. They both state that their users (specifically privacy) are their top concern at every moment.
That being said: with how big Google is, I seriously doubt Motorola will be dying anytime soon.
Now that doesn't mean Google has full control of Motorola. I realize that, but I have noticed some changes. For example, I noticed that they have a Bootloader Unlock Program now.
Not only that, but the build quality of their products have significantly increased.
I am not going to take sides on this argument of wanting the updates. Regardless of the fact that I want the updates, these phones are old, and there are companies Motorola has to go through to release this update or release the source code. For example: AT&T, Bell, or whatever carrier you have. This can take months to complete this process.
I honestly think Motorola has gotten the message that people want these updates, and I personally think that the only reason Motorola gets bad rep nowadays is because people are blaming them for things that aren't completely under their control. And if that is the case, spreading these videos only achieve one thing: more bad rep for a company that needs good rep to survive.
I have heard bad things about Motorola in the past, but I know Google is a good company, and I think that changes are going to come that will make Motorola a much better company, possibly even better than most other manufacturers. (I know that's exaggerating a bit...ahem...HTC, but still...you never know.)