samsung galaxy note 5 - Verizon Galaxy Note 3 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting

so has anyone heard any rumors or other leaks about the possibility of there being a note 5? if so what have you heard, and what do you think of it. I am waiting to see if samsung decides to make one to possibly upgrade to it.

dipkid said:
so has anyone heard any rumors or other leaks about the possibility of there being a note 5? if so what have you heard, and what do you think of it. I am waiting to see if samsung decides to make one to possibly upgrade to it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You realize the 4 came out a few days ago right?
Definitely a 5, but way way too early to discuss
Kicking Deuce on the Beast, Note 3

sprintuser1977 said:
You realize the 4 came out a few days ago right?
Definitely a 5, but way way too early to discuss
Kicking Deuce on the Beast, Note 3
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Click to collapse
yes i realize that. the only reason i ask is because in the past i have started hearing rumors about phones before the one that was about to come out was actually released to the public.

dipkid said:
yes i realize that. the only reason i ask is because in the past i have started hearing rumors about phones before the one that was about to come out was actually released to the public.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There actually is a website for it already
Kicking Deuce on the Beast, Note 3

sprintuser1977 said:
There actually is a website for it already
Kicking Deuce on the Beast, Note 3
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
really whats the website? i wanna check it out

Your best bet it to wait for S6 rumors. They usually have the same features but the Note series has better hardware.
Sent from my Galaxy Note S5

Related

s4 outdated in 2 months...

aren't you guys afraid the s4 will get outdated once KLP gets pushed in may? judging by how slow sammy, htc and all these companies are in pushing the updates, I personally am afraid it will take months for us to get KLP. opinions?
So what would you suggest?
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using xda app-developers app
20blks said:
So what would you suggest?
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i want to know how do other users feel about it.
Sent from my Nexus 4 using xda premium
persheshhater said:
aren't you guys afraid the s4 will get outdated once KLP gets pushed in may? judging by how slow sammy, htc and all these companies are in pushing the updates, I personally am afraid it will take months for us to get KLP. opinions?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Didn't stop people buying the s2 when that came out with gingerbread and Ics was looming.
There's always an update looming that's called life get used to it or buy a nexus.
The only ones who truly care are the nexus guys and the ones in the forums posting loads of new threads just to say "I WANT MY UPDATE AND I WANT IT NOW OR SO HELP ME I'LL NEVER BUY ANOTHER SAMSUNG AGAIN" which is stupid because they end up buying there next flagship device
dethrat said:
Didn't stop people buying the s2 when that came out with gingerbread and Ics was looming.
There's always an update looming that's called life get used to it or buy a nexus.
The only ones who truly care are the nexus guys and the ones in the forums posting loads of new threads just to say "I WANT MY UPDATE AND I WANT IT NOW OR SO HELP ME I'LL NEVER BUY ANOTHER SAMSUNG AGAIN" which is stupid because they end up buying there next flagship device
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
it is not true that only the nexus guys care about because when you expect an update even devs hold back because they say that it wont be worth spending time on deving for a firmware that will get old very soon. but if you pay $700 for a phone i do not think you like to hear that you gotta wait months to have a major upgrade like KLP.
Sent from my Nexus 4 using xda premium
delete.
persheshhater said:
aren't you guys afraid the s4 will get outdated once KLP gets pushed in may? judging by how slow sammy, htc and all these companies are in pushing the updates, I personally am afraid it will take months for us to get KLP. opinions?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's always a problem, and will remain so. Expect to get the update in 6 months.
Personally I think samsung is quite good at updating their devices. I mean, their 2011 flagship the S2 is going to get the 4.2.2 update. They won't abandon S4 as soon as that. Hopefully, S4 will continue getting updates for at least a couple major versions.
Sent from my Xperia Arc S using xda premium
persheshhater said:
it is not true that only the nexus guys care about because when you expect an update even devs hold back because they say that it wont be worth spending time on deving for a firmware that will get old very soon. but if you pay $700 for a phone i do not think you like to hear that you gotta wait months to have a major upgrade like KLP.
Sent from my Nexus 4 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's the price you pay for not having a nexus and I didn't say that others don't care I said nexus guys care and others post loads of threads about when the updates coming to there phone.
So your expecting something that took several months for Google to make for the nexus and when its released these manufactures have to rewrite their code into the new update and for several phones how fast do you really expect that to happen
persheshhater said:
aren't you guys afraid the s4 will get outdated once KLP gets pushed in may? judging by how slow sammy, htc and all these companies are in pushing the updates, I personally am afraid it will take months for us to get KLP. opinions?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What can we do? Only buy nexus? Gotta wait. Sammy has been the best at updating the android software. The S IV will be the only flagship running 4.2.2 besides the nexus line. I think that is great,
Livebyte said:
It's always a problem, and will remain so. Expect to get the update in 6 months.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why get an S4 if u can wait for an S5.... why wait for an S5 when u can wait for an S6.... why wait for an S6 when the S7 would be out soon after.... why wait for the S7 because we clearly know the S8 will be out soon after that....
do you see a problem with this waiting? you end up stuck with old boring behind the times tech...
barondebxl said:
What can we do? Only buy nexus? Gotta wait. Sammy has been the best at updating the android software. The S IV will be the only flagship running 4.2.2 besides the nexus line. I think that is great,
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Click to collapse
lol nah we dont have to all get nexus. i think this time is a little different from the past, since s3 and s4 are pretty much similar(at least for the mainstream user) and KLP seems like a bigger update than the ones google usually pushes. it is true that tons of people bought the s2 while still having to wait foe ics but the s2 i think was a bigger upgrade compared to the s1 vs the s4 not being that much of an upgrade compared to the s3
Sent from my Nexus 4 using xda premium
AMDPOWERFIST said:
Why get an S4 if u can wait for an S5.... why wait for an S5 when u can wait for an S6.... why wait for an S6 when the S7 would be out soon after.... why wait for the S7 because we clearly know the S8 will be out soon after that....
do you see a problem with this waiting? you end up stuck with old boring behind the times tech...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Couldn't have put it better myself its called life and the way the world works
Sent from my GT-I9100 using xda app-developers app
persheshhater said:
lol nah we dont have to all get nexus. i think this time is a little different from the past, since s3 and s4 are pretty much similar(at least for the mainstream user) and KLP seems like a bigger update than the ones google usually pushes. it is true that tons of people bought the s2 while still having to wait foe ics but the s2 i think was a bigger upgrade compared to the s1 vs the s4 not being that much of an upgrade compared to the s3
Sent from my Nexus 4 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm sorry and i certainly mean no offense but what is your point?
---------- Post added at 10:24 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:22 PM ----------
AMDPOWERFIST said:
Why get an S4 if u can wait for an S5.... why wait for an S5 when u can wait for an S6.... why wait for an S6 when the S7 would be out soon after.... why wait for the S7 because we clearly know the S8 will be out soon after that....
do you see a problem with this waiting? you end up stuck with old boring behind the times tech...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yes
That's tech for ya, so fast paced you just gotta buy what you want and upgrade when you can afford it, but always cherish the 2 months when you can say you have the newest thing
Sent from my ADR6425LVW using xda app-developers app
Squirrel1620 said:
That's tech for ya, so fast paced you just gotta buy what you want and upgrade when you can afford it, but always cherish the 2 months when you can say you have the newest thing
Sent from my ADR6425LVW using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Its the same with all types of technology... PC's, Cars, fridges, TVs, washing machines, i think the only thing that hasnt changed in 30 years is Toilets.... (cept some crazy japanese ones...)
It comes totally down to personal preference, affordability, and need vs desire for when people choose to upgrade.
I have a friend who is still using the ORIGINAL IPHONE 1.... as he has no need for upgrades and as such hasnt... it does what he needs and thats that. Me on the other hand, ive had my S1 and S2 skipped the S3 becoz Dorrimanx kernel for the S2 has brought it sustained life for a long period of time. So i am now ready for an upgrade, S4 is definitely my cup of tea... (so to speak)
Following Samsung's trend,
The Samsung GALAXY S 4 will get Android Key Lime Pie probably in November (6 months after May)
The Samsung GALAXY S 3 definitely even later, possibly even early next year.
The question is are you willing to wait?
Livebyte said:
Following Samsung's trend,
The Samsung GALAXY S 4 will get Android Key Lime Pie probably in November (6 months after May)
The Samsung GALAXY S 3 definitely even later, possibly even early next year.
The question is are you willing to wait?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Jelly bean was released in july 2012 alongside the nexus 7. Samsung started the Galaxy s 3 jellybean roll out in october.
I would Iove to wait for a Nexus device to come out with KLP but what are the odds of one coming out for Verizon? Probably very little so, I'll most likely have to go with the S4
runhappy said:
I would Iove to wait for a Nexus device to come out with KLP but what are the odds of one coming out for Verizon? Probably very little so, I'll most likely have to go with the S4
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Oh definitely lol. In fact if you want timely on verizon, you're better off with an iphone lol.

When can we expect Lollipop (Android 5) for Note 4?

How long usually it takes Samsung to adopt the new Android version?
Sent from my SM-N910C using Tapatalk
bat0nas said:
How long usually it takes Samsung to adopt the new Android version?
Sent from my SM-N910C using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
in my experience, it could be months. As in Q2 2015
Knowing Samsung it might not be till end of summer 2015 (if you are lucky).
Hrrr
Sent from my SM-N910C using Tapatalk
There have already been two preview builds for the S5, both shown by Sammobile on YouTube. Which means they are working on it and they're almost there. I would expect an update closer to the end of the year or at the beginning of the next.
iR¡[email protected]!* from i9505 via Tapatalk 4
Meanwhile, the good people at LG are releasing Lollipop for the LG G3 this week. Samsung is always way too slow with updates, for no acceptable reason.
ozaghloul said:
Meanwhile, the good people at LG are releasing Lollipop for the LG G3 this week. Samsung is always way too slow with updates, for no acceptable reason.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
G3 won't get Android 5.0 this week.
ozaghloul said:
Meanwhile, the good people at LG are releasing Lollipop for the LG G3 this week. Samsung is always way too slow with updates, for no acceptable reason.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Android in G3 is not so heavily modified than in Samsung phones. Maybe that's the reason.
Sent from my SM-N910C using Tapatalk
Lodix said:
G3 won't get Android 5.0 this week.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes they will get it this week, in fact people already have it.
http://phandroid.com/2014/11/08/lg-g3-lollipop-update-official/
And motorola already released it for the Moto X.
ozaghloul said:
Yes they will get it this week, in fact people already have it.
http://phandroid.com/2014/11/08/lg-g3-lollipop-update-official/
And motorola already released it for the Moto X.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't see any word of LG supporting what you say.
Lodix said:
I don't see any word of LG supporting what you say.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
http://www.lgnewsroom.com/newsroom/contents/64765
Enough proof for you?
I am pretty confident/optimistic that we will have the update during Nov-Dec, 1-2 months from now
So far we have seen 2 leaks of Lollipop for S5, 1 leak of S4, so imagine at what level the newest flagship of Samsung is
Even more, all companies are promoting fiercely their update plans, so Samsung should be at least worried and thus speed up their game.
Lastly, last year we had the same case as with Note 3, it was released with 4.3 Jellybean and it received the 4.4 Kitkat update in early January.
The best news relateed to this is that Chainfire was able to root Lollipop on the Nexus 9. It is encouraging that if you have an unlocked bootloader, it seems likely that there will be root for Android 5.
ozaghloul said:
http://www.lgnewsroom.com/newsroom/contents/64765
Enough proof for you?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, thanks
According to this article it's late November early December.
http://www.techtimes.com/articles/1...e-note-3-galaxy-s5-and-s4-release-details.htm
But I wouldn't hold my breath.
As I mentioned, don't expect anything before a few months. I estimate q2 2015 but this article seems to say February 2015
http://m.christianpost.com/news/and...samsung-galaxy-s5-scheduled-for-2015--129316/
polish_pat said:
As I mentioned, don't expect anything before a few months. I estimate q2 2015 but this article seems to say February 2015
http://m.christianpost.com/news/and...samsung-galaxy-s5-scheduled-for-2015--129316/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Are you joking? There are builds for the S5 and the S4, the latter being almost 2 years old now! There is no way the the Note 4 will get an update in "Q2 2015". And the article you linked to has no substantial evidence or insight. On the other hand, we know Note 3 was released with 4.3 and got an update to 4.4 in January, so it's not far fetched to think the Note 4 will be treated the same way.
iR¡[email protected]!* from i9505 via Tapatalk 4
iridaki said:
Are you joking? There are builds for the S5 and the S4, the latter being almost 2 years old now! There is no way the the Note 4 will get an update in "Q2 2015". And the article you linked to has no substantial evidence or insight. On the other hand, we know Note 3 was released with 4.3 and got an update to 4.4 in January, so it's not far fetched to think the Note 4 will be treated the same way.
iR¡[email protected]!* from i9505 via Tapatalk 4
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I hope you are right, but I highly doubt we will get it before end of Q1-2015. Yes there are builds for many phones, but Samsung tends to take their sweet time coming up with a final draft. I suffered plenty with the Note 2 and Note 3 (still on 4.4.2 until now). Maybe the fact that almost every manufacturer other than samsung will have Lollipop before end of the month might make Samsung move faster (but I doubt it, because they know that most of their end users aren't on XDA and don't know lollipop from lollygag).
What's really funny -and to be frank, quite sad- is how we use words like "suffer" when we explain how we feel about waiting for an update. It's a phone. Save your capacity to suffer for things that actually matter.
Maybe Samsung will see this and we'll get the update this week........or in Q4 15[emoji13]

Lollipop coming to NA Galaxy devices NOW

Hey Guy,
I have a friend that works for the mobile division of BestBuy and he saw an email that Samsung sent them that says Lollipop should be released within a few days. The email doesn't specifically give that information but he says it shows instructions on how to update the demo devices to Lollipop and how to reinstall the retail demo software after the update. He said usually those kind of emails are sent within days of the actual updates which would mean that most of the units on demo (Note 4, S5, Alpha and possibly Note 3) should be getting 5.0 within a few days. This update affects DEMO units which are not carrier branded which could mean, as usual, some carriers might keep that update for testing until they are comfortable it is fully compatible with their network.
This is good news for us, as Samsung has already started pushing Lollipop to some European countries.
I say mid February
BAD ASS NOTE 4
Possible, depending on the carrier. I think T-mo pushes the updates quite quickly
The T-Mobile Note 2 I had earlier was still on Jelly Bean. Is Lollipop coming to T-Mobile Note Devices anytime soon?
Find this with a quick Google search.
phandroid.com/2014/12/30/samsung-galaxy-s5-lollipop-update-january-us/
Sent from my SM-N910T using XDA Free mobile app
BACARDILIMON said:
I say mid February
BAD ASS NOTE 4
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'd say late March.
Thugnificent69 said:
I'd say late March.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's verified that it's coming in Jan. It was verified to a mod, so it's pretty safe to rely on the information.
http://www.reddit.com/r/Android/comments/2qui2n/samsung_confirmed_l_release_in_jan_internal/
ragnarok12 said:
It's verified that it's coming in Jan. It was verified to a mod, so it's pretty safe to rely on the information.
http://www.reddit.com/r/Android/comments/2qui2n/samsung_confirmed_l_release_in_jan_internal/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Lol I read it and when he edit he stated that it is not verified by Samsung lol. Even if Samsung releases it in jan Tmobile still has to bloat it up. So I say may now. Or may e the note 5 will be out first. Lol
BAD ASS NOTE 4
BACARDILIMON said:
Lol I read it and when he edit he stated that it is not verified by Samsung lol. Even if Samsung releases it in jan Tmobile still has to bloat it up. So I say may now. Or may e the note 5 will be out first. Lol
BAD ASS NOTE 4
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'll be crossing my fingers that a miracle happens and things do indeed roll out in January, lol
What's the purpose of waiting for an OTA? I get too excited to update if there is no reason to update and I have a stable ROM (Unless the ROM I use updates).
BACARDILIMON said:
I say mid February
BAD ASS NOTE 4
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Which year?
Limeybastard said:
Which year?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
True lol
BAD ASS NOTE 4
ajr0312 said:
What's the purpose of waiting for an OTA? I get too excited to update if there is no reason to update and I have a stable ROM (Unless the ROM I use updates).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I dont think its about waiting for OTA, i think its about knowing more or less when our fav rom will make the jump to 5.0
I read the galaxy s5 will get lollipop first early January, note 4 "soon after".
It's real, but I don't think the note 4 will be the first to get it, and honestly as rude as this sounds, I don't care when other Samsung devices get it, I want it on my note 4! Official with everything working. Hopefully January
Araltd said:
I read the galaxy s5 will get lollipop first early January, note 4 "soon after".
It's real, but I don't think the note 4 will be the first to get it, and honestly as rude as this sounds, I don't care when other Samsung devices get it, I want it on my note 4! Official with everything working. Hopefully January
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The S5 rollout started end of november. Note 4 should follow shortly as more and more leaks videos come out
I actually work at Best Buy. I'll see what I can dig up when I go to work tomorrow.
got to be earlier than march I mean by then we should be expecting another upgrade.... lol
I think by the mid or end of this month./
Like stated above...I could care less when the official update is released. I just want to know my roms will be updated.
rile1564 said:
Find this with a quick Google search.
phandroid.com/2014/12/30/samsung-galaxy-s5-lollipop-update-january-us/
Sent from my SM-N910T using XDA Free mobile app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
ragnarok12 said:
It's verified that it's coming in Jan. It was verified to a mod, so it's pretty safe to rely on the information.
http://www.reddit.com/r/Android/comments/2qui2n/samsung_confirmed_l_release_in_jan_internal/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Araltd said:
I read the galaxy s5 will get lollipop first early January, note 4 "soon after".
It's real, but I don't think the note 4 will be the first to get it, and honestly as rude as this sounds, I don't care when other Samsung devices get it, I want it on my note 4! Official with everything working. Hopefully January
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's funny how several people can read the same articles and interpret it VERY differently. Samsung has announced THEY will be rolling out Lollipop...this means unbranded devices. Then one of the articles uses words regarding US carriers as "could" and "as early as January" adding the disclaimer that the carriers will do whatever they want regarding testing and timelines. So before you all continue fighting over vaporware, research all the articles on KitKat and Jellybean that all had the same wording, people still posting "We will haz JB tomorrow" and then the US carriers releasing an OTA 2 months later. Granted Sprint and T-Mobile are usually the firsts in the US carrier line because they do not have to worry about unlocking and relocking a bootloader without bricking devices on an OTA....so rather than fight...just wait...be patient for that new Knox loaded Lollipop update.
I will be cleaning the disrespectful posts from this thread and expect those who posted in such a manner to accept this as an official warning...do not do so again!
Friendly Neighborhood Senior-Mod
BACARDILIMON said:
Lol I read it and when he edit he stated that it is not verified by Samsung lol. Even if Samsung releases it in jan Tmobile still has to bloat it up. So I say may now. Or may e the note 5 will be out first. Lol
BAD ASS NOTE 4
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
remember they gotta get that wi-fi calling working just right.
or maybe none of their apps can run on ART yet 0_o

[Q] Any idea if we'll get 5.1?

Has anyone seen if Samsung has confirmed that the Note 4 will get 5.1 Lollipop? (not 5.0.1, I already have that )
senectus said:
Has anyone seen if Samsung has confirmed that the Note 4 will get 5.1 Lollipop? (not 5.0.1, I already have that )
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
check samsung.youmobile.org me too i cant wait as a friend told me android 5.1 on Note 4 will get New Touchwiz of the S6
as i remeber for US Variants its MAY/JUNE
Salim.Keady said:
check samsung.youmobile.org me too i cant wait as a friend told me android 5.1 on Note 4 will get New Touchwiz of the S6
as i remeber for US Variants its MAY/JUNE
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
rumor-mill gives me hope:
http://www.geeksnack.com/2015/05/22...llipop-update-incoming-in-the-next-two-weeks/
We will probably get it after samsung note 5 have sold their initial batch of phones... because once they update the note 4 now, it will prevent some people from upgrading... it'$ all about the money money money.....
xdm9mm said:
We will probably get it after samsung note 5 have sold their initial batch of phones... because once they update the note 4 now, it will prevent some people from upgrading... it'$ all about the money money money.....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No man rumor seems legit
However it think it will come is the second quarter of June
Salim.Keady said:
No man rumor seems legit
However it think it will come is the second quarter of June
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
if you have something like 910h its kinda never, you will get it(maybe) when android 10 is out i just got lollipop 5.0.1 and android m is coming in few days i will never buy anything but nexus ever again

[Q] Note 3 marshmallow update?

is there any chances to get marshmallow update for Note 3 (Snapdragon)
No one knows. But let the Note 5 selling start, and within a month of that Samsung will announce whether to update our device or not, that is if Note 5 doesn't sell well they will be angry (like anyone cares about that after releasing a phone like Note 5) and will say no, no Marshmallow for Note 3. But if Note 5 sells well then they will give us the update. I am positive about the update though.
Probably we may get an unofficial version.
Sent from my SM-N900 using XDA Free mobile app
ithehappy said:
No one knows. But let the Note 5 selling start, and within a month of that Samsung will announce whether to update our device or not, that is if Note 5 doesn't sell well they will be angry (like anyone cares about that after releasing a phone like Note 5) and will say no, no Marshmallow for Note 3. But if Note 5 sells well then they will give us the update. I am positive about the update though.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The latest galaxy range of the s6 and the note 5 are the 'disappointment devices' .... I recon peoplewont buy them because of the important features they took out like Micro Sd slot...removable battery and the phone being made from pure glass and metal theyr basing it more on iphones... COMON SAMSUNG FIX UP.
When we see the Samsung's support's histroy there are no device that it support more than 24 month
Sent from my SM-N900 using Tapatalk
I want to buy a note 3 now because it is a great device, screen size and resolution, battery life, etc... But I want to know if CM or and other custom rom will be available for marshmallow. The hardware should be able to handle it, right?
More likely there won't be an official Marshmellow update, because Note 3 is already old, despite the hardware being more than enough to handle it. It's not a hardware limitation but rather Samsung pulling to plug, plus, by now if you are carrier locked, no carrier will push an update for a phone which is over 24 months old.
Probably we will see a Marshmellow update, but it'll be unofficial. If you ask me, that's more than enough.
right! who likes touchwiz? hehe
Bump!
I'm just wondering, since the marshmallow leak for the Note 5.... if anyone is working on it. I've combed the forums but can't find any chatter.
knauji said:
right! who likes touchwiz? hehe
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i do! totally love it!
oxoconstantineoxo said:
i do! totally love it!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's the only way to get android at it's best!!!:good:
I think it will be shown5
unofficial ported rom by developers
I got tired of waiting for my note 3 to get updated, that's why I started flashing ROM's.
Currently using temaseks Rom (CM 13) and loving it. Will never use Samsungs Touch wiz ever again.
Note 3 abandoned. I paid 800 for this. At least Microsoft will push updates till the pc crashes. Last Samsung cell phone I'll ever purchase.
will my Samsung galaxy note 3 small n900 will be updated to marshmallow or not ?
khaled_agamy said:
is there any chances to get marshmallow update for Note 3 (Snapdragon)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
will my Samsung galaxy note 3 small n900 update to marshmallow or not ?

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