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why are they blocking **** on the G1 if its supposed to be opensource
and in opensource anything goes
and i heard they wont let you put skins on the market
oh well i still love my G1 hopefully they dont **** **** up
btw we should start a petition against rc30 because its negating the open source part of the phoen
http://source.android.com/download
and in opensource anything goes
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yup. That includes taking the source code and building a closed or partially closed product.
roguestatuskat said:
why are they blocking **** on the G1 if its supposed to be opensource
and in opensource anything goes
and i heard they wont let you put skins on the market
oh well i still love my G1 hopefully they dont **** **** up
btw we should start a petition against rc30 because its negating the open source part of the phoen
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't think you quite understand the concept of open source. Open source doesn't mean "anything goes." Open source means you get access to the source code. Depending on the license, you can take the source code and make a closed source program (BSD, for example), or it must stay open source (GPL). That is it.
RC30 had nothing to do with negating the open source concept. RC30 was in response to a bug in the project that allowed whatever you typed on the keyboard to be echoed to a console.
If you want a rooted, unlocked phone, get an Android Dev Phone 1.
A truly wide open, mass marketed cell phone in this package would be a BAD thing for us. It needs to still have standards to insure the "typical" user can easily use the device and not have to worry about ****ing it up.
Get a Dev phone if you want to modify it.
vr24 said:
A truly wide open, mass marketed cell phone in this package would be a BAD thing for us. It needs to still have standards to insure the "typical" user can easily use the device and not have to worry about ****ing it up.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I really don't see what is wrong with selling a software unlocked device through T-Mobile. The default ROM that comes loaded does not have root enabled... you actually have to go through the SPL to flash a new image which has ro.secure disabled. Its not like someone can just accidentally go into SPL mode and brick their phone, they actually have to press a key sequence to access it.
Also, look at just about every other device on these forums. They run WINDOWS, the most closed source platform out there and even on those phones we can flash images via SPL. Why not on a phone running linux?
Datruesurfer said:
Also, look at just about every other device on these forums. They run WINDOWS, the most closed source platform out there and even on those phones we can flash images via SPL. Why not on a phone running linux?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It is really quite a lot easier to seriously damage a Linux system in the command line than it is with Windows. With root access, Linux assumes you know exactly what you are doing. Root also bypasses quite a lot of Linux's security mechanisms. This behavior is not appropriate or ideal for a consumer-oriented device. The G1 is not marketed toward software developers and experienced Linux hackers. If such a device is required, the Dev Phone 1 is the appropriate option.
Also, if WinMo were ever to want to make serious attempts at breaking into the consumer smartphone space (where iPhone and Symbian live), I imagine it too would become seriously locked down.
jashsu said:
It is really quite a lot easier to seriously damage a Linux system in the command line than it is with Windows.With root access, Linux assumes you know exactly what you are doing. Root also bypasses quite a lot of Linux's security mechanisms. This behavior is not appropriate or ideal for a consumer-oriented device. The G1 is not marketed toward software developers and experienced Linux hackers. If such a device is required, the Dev Phone 1 is the appropriate option.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You know what has the same power that root has to brick your phone? the bootloader. Say you try to flash to the latest ROM and it fails half way through... Your phone is basically bricked. Regardless, HTC still has this enabled on all of their Windows Mobile devices. Not exactly consumer oriented functionality, but it is there so people who know what they are doing have the power to do what they want.
I really think everyone needs to calm down here. We aren't sure what is in store for the future. Maybe we should withhold complaints and other comments until after Google has finished their first release.
But feel free to complain about how t-mobile doesn't tell you about the beta-ness of the device.
neoobs said:
I really think everyone needs to calm down here. We aren't sure what is in store for the future. Maybe we should withhold complaints and other comments until after Google has finished their first release.
But feel free to complain about how t-mobile doesn't tell you about the beta-ness of the device.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Google already made their stance very clear. Buy a Dev Phone for $399 + $25 market subscription fee + shipping or you can't have root. I'm sure its going to be the same for every other android device coming out.
Datruesurfer said:
Google already made their stance very clear. Buy a Dev Phone for $399 + $25 market subscription fee + shipping or you can't have root.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's not Google's decision to make:
Brian Swetland @ G1-Hackers mailing listhttp://www.telesphoreo.org/pipermail/g1-hackers/2008-December/000188.html
The t-mobile g1 devices are "working as intended" as of RC30. It is
possible that other OEMs or carriers may choose to ship their devices with
the platform in a less (or, hey, even more) locked down configuration, but
that is the choice of the OEMs and carriers.
I'm sure its going to be the same for every other android device coming out.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Which OEM or carrier do you work for/speak for?
This "its working as intended" is technically true but it means the HYPE behind the phone was and is a load of crap.
If T-Mobile wants to become Verizon, so be it. They're entitled. Customers are entitled to tell them to pound sand and stick it where the sun does not shine.
What's unreasonable (and indeed outrageous) is to sell a beta device to the public without making VERY CLEAR what you are doing. OTA "push" updates are even worse as they can (and in this case DID) REMOVE functionality that used to be there.
As for building "totally secure" environments, heh, have at it. But doing so destroys the attraction of "open source" and then you're on the hook to deliver the full experience that the user expects, because he or she can't get it from anyone but you.
Just so long as everyone involved understands that this is the tradeoff and is ok with it (that is, the customer is INFORMED before they hand over their money AND the company understands that they will get the criticism that will come when the experience doesn't meet expectations!) that's fine.
Would I buy a WinMo unit that I could NOT hack on and load my own firmware? Today, hell no, because what's delivered "stock" does not meet my expectations for user experience.
Neither does the G1, and the reason I'm not sitting here with one is because T-Mobile has made an executive decision to lock those devices down to the point that I can't do for myself what they either refuse to do (or are incapable of doing) for me, nor can I find other people who can and do those things and load THEIR stuff on the platform.
If I wanted a Samsung "prepack" phone I'd have bought one. Oh wait - I can even reflash and feature-edit those, along with Motorolas!
Datruesurfer said:
Google already made their stance very clear. Buy a Dev Phone for $399 + $25 market subscription fee + shipping or you can't have root. I'm sure its going to be the same for every other android device coming out.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I would like to know where you got your information about Google's stance. So far all they have said is that the device is still partly closed source till the get things the way they want it. This would also imply that later down the line they may give the option to open root again.
Genesis3 said:
This "its working as intended" is technically true but it means the HYPE behind the phone was and is a load of crap.
If T-Mobile wants to become Verizon, so be it. They're entitled. Customers are entitled to tell them to pound sand and stick it where the sun does not shine.
What's unreasonable (and indeed outrageous) is to sell a beta device to the public without making VERY CLEAR what you are doing. OTA "push" updates are even worse as they can (and in this case DID) REMOVE functionality that used to be there.
As for building "totally secure" environments, heh, have at it. But doing so destroys the attraction of "open source" and then you're on the hook to deliver the full experience that the user expects, because he or she can't get it from anyone but you.
Just so long as everyone involved understands that this is the tradeoff and is ok with it (that is, the customer is INFORMED before they hand over their money AND the company understands that they will get the criticism that will come when the experience doesn't meet expectations!) that's fine.
Would I buy a WinMo unit that I could NOT hack on and load my own firmware? Today, hell no, because what's delivered "stock" does not meet my expectations for user experience.
Neither does the G1, and the reason I'm not sitting here with one is because T-Mobile has made an executive decision to lock those devices down to the point that I can't do for myself what they either refuse to do (or are incapable of doing) for me, nor can I find other people who can and do those things and load THEIR stuff on the platform.
If I wanted a Samsung "prepack" phone I'd have bought one. Oh wait - I can even reflash and feature-edit those, along with Motorolas!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Then don't buy a consumer oriented device like the G1 - don't like how it operates, there are thousands of apps to add new functionality. Want root? Too bad, it's not designed or released for that reason, or, gasp, buy a DEV PHONE.
You think T-Mobile is even remotely taking into considering the .00001% of the user base that is like you? Who wants to buy a phone to HACK it!? Be serious here. What features are you really missing out here? Can't teather the phone (which t-mobile doesn't want you doing anyways) - and can't set auto-rotate?
Yes, caching to the SD card is something that needs fixing, but hardly a major "I need root" problem at this point, the phone is practically still BETA, and again, BUY A DEV PHONE.
Genesis3 said:
OTA "push" updates are even worse as they can (and in this case DID) REMOVE functionality that used to be there.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The update was to fix a gaping security hole not to remove functionality. The fact was that before it was fixed all it would have taken would be for a site contain certain malicious code and then a person would have root access to your phone and all your personal information with it. Just think of how far someone who had your google credentials could go.
RC29 was a test of the OTA system. If it hadn't been for the security hole RC30 probably would not have happened. If it wasn't fixed it would have opened Google & T-Mobile to a massive amount of liability.
As for building "totally secure" environments, heh, have at it. But doing so destroys the attraction of "open source" and then you're on the hook to deliver the full experience that the user expects, because he or she can't get it from anyone but you.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is another misunderstanding of what open source really is. It means that the source code is open to be viewed and/or modified. It does not mean that the hardware needs to be (think of Tivo).
Aside from that one of the new "cupcake release" that is currently being worked on includes support third party updates of system applications. This ability alone means a lot.
the reason I'm not sitting here with one is because T-Mobile has made an executive decision to lock those devices down to the point that I can't do for myself what they either refuse to do (or are incapable of doing) for me, nor can I find other people who can and do those things and load THEIR stuff on the platform.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Please do some research before you try to say what T-mobile's intent is. If they're not going to move to block tethering, which would impact them via the bandwidth, then why would they move to otherwise lock the phone from modification in ways that wouldn't?
The G1 is not missing any features advertised before launch. The fact that you want more from it and the fact that people are working towards making that a reality kind of shows the power of open source. I don't think that WM had this level of development and as much progress a month an a half after launch.
Genesis3 said:
But doing so destroys the attraction of "open source"
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Open source and Linux have different benefits to different groups of people with sometimes divergent agendas. These groups could include oems/manufaturers, carriers, power users, casual users. What is an "attraction" to you may be unimportant or a liability to someone else.
Just so long as everyone involved understands that this is the tradeoff and is ok with it (that is, the customer is INFORMED before they hand over their money AND the company understands that they will get the criticism that will come when the experience doesn't meet expectations!) that's fine.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Seems to me that at the core of a lot of dissatisfied G1 users is either: 1) their own expectation that the G1 would have X and Y features that were never advertised to be supported "out-of-the-box" or 2) their dissatisfaction at not having root access (which was never advertised). Some folks new to the world of open source seem to think that any product built on os components must be by nature completely open access. This is a completely flawed assumption. I see no need for T-Mo or Google to apologize for a potential G1 owner's own assumptions going into the purchase.
Would I buy a WinMo unit that I could NOT hack on and load my own firmware? Today, hell no, because what's delivered "stock" does not meet my expectations for user experience.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Another solution would simply be not to voluntarily buy any WinMo products at all. Tech is still a business, and the best way to get businesses to act is to put your money where your mouth is.
@vr24 & benmyers: Agreed completely.
There are a whole host of things that the G1 does not do by intent.
Tethering is just one of them.
I actually use my phone to do work on, and the functionality that would have been LOST going from either a Wizard or a Kaiser to the G1 was insane.
I toyed with one for a half-hour or so in the store and said "thanks, but no thanks" when a half-dozen things I attempted - simple stuff that WM6 (and even WM5!) support native like, oh, connecting to my ORB server at my house and watching CNBC on the phone - failed.
Tethering has been possible on virtually every phone that can run data T-Mobile has produced and can talk to a PC since the Nokia 6610 (a phone I still happen to have, having purchased it FROM T-Mobile in something like 2001!); removing that functionality is absolutely asinine given that it was intentionally removed - Linux by its nature knows how to do both NAT and DHCP, the two essential elements required.
Yes, I'm aware they've removed it from a couple of other recent models' firmware (Samsungs in particular) as well. You want to cite some speech by a T-Mobile executive that PREDATES the firmware changes they made intentionally to the Samsung models? Guess what - executives lie all the time. Wake up and smell the coffee, or have it poured down your back.
Like I said, if they intend to become Verizon they're entitled, and customers are entitled to leave - and will.
"Dream"? Ha.
T-Mobile is IMHO making a critical error given that the "bling crowd" doesn't need a $100/month cellphone bill and into the maw of the worst economic conditions since the 1930s do you think people will cut luxuries like data on their cell phones or their car payment first?
You fanboys are welcome to your "Dream"-cum-nightmare; as for the suggestion that I shouldn't buy a WinMo device because "its not all there as intended" I buy with the full knowledge and intent that I can unlock and flash it, intending to do so at the point of purchase. That's part of the bargain and why I purchased it - if that wasn't possible I'd probably be on a Symbian device instead.
As for "doing research" the fact of the matter is that without system-level access nobody's going to be building a native tethering application. Modifying routing tables (including setting up NAT) requires system privilege; 20+ years experience writing Unix device drivers here kids.
Have a good evening.
Genesis3 said:
Linux by its nature knows how to do both NAT and DHCP, the two essential elements required.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Android ≠ Linux
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Genesis3 said:
removing that functionality is absolutely asinine given that it was intentionally removed - Linux by its nature knows how to do both NAT and DHCP, the two essential elements required.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This comment is so flawed I don't even know where to begin. I'm assuming you mean dhcpd. In any case, the average user only cares whether tethering is possible or not and yes it is very possible. I'm beta testing June Fabric's PdaNET for Android.
T-Mobile is IMHO making a critical error given that the "bling crowd" doesn't need a $100/month cellphone bill and into the maw of the worst economic conditions since the 1930s do you think people will cut luxuries like data on their cell phones or their car payment first?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Last I checked, htc's numbers for G1s shipped thru end of Q4 2008 is 1 million units. Considering that T-Mo is Dream's only carrier and all Dreams are sold with a dataplan, I think they're doing alright. Certainly feel free to correct me if you have more accurate numbers.
benmyers2941 said:
Android ≠ Linux
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The drivers are in the kernel. Have you looked?
I have.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Beggars eh?
Hmmm... me thinks you got that backwards.
Genesis3 said:
The drivers are in the kernel. Have you looked?
I have.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yup...sure have... and as jashsu pointed out
tethering is possible or not and yes it is very possible.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Beggars eh?
Hmmm... me thinks you got that backwards.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How so? I'm not the one asking for stuff and then choosing not to believe what I'm told.
Hey guys,
Recently there's been talks about piracy on Android and how developers seem to shy away from it and produce games for iOS. That's actually the reason why developers of Infinite Blade refuses to port the game to Android. I've recently gotten the chance to speak with the creative director Matt Small of Vector Unit (Riptide GP). In this interview he talks about piracy and how its equal on both sides of the os. You guys really think its that bad? In truth when GTA 3 came out today someone already posted the apk on this forums mere hours it showed up in the market.
Anyway check it out:
http://droidgamers.com/index.php/ga...-unit-talks-piracy-tegra-and-of-course-games-
Sent from my Transformer TF101 using Tapatalk
IOS apps are easily pirated as well.. I just don't see how that is a legitimate reason to turn down some extra profits by porting it to Android.
Piracy runs rampant on any OS, mobile or not. The Infinity Blade developers might use that as an excuse for some secret underlying hatred for Android
Sent from my Transformer TF101 using xda premium
lol infinity blade? sorry didn't hear you I was too busy playing blood and glory because GLU aren't picky developers.
I've may have downloaded a few apps with my *special* discount, I try to help developers out when I can. Especially if they're small and offering a good app, I'd feel too guilty otherwise. But if I'm short on cash one week and you have an app like adobe kuler going for 10 dollars...
I mean c'mon its 10 dollars for an app that selects colors. I guess if you have an indecisive wife who can't make her mind up about which blouse to wear it pays off eventually... but for the rest of us it's robbery.
Also it's always nice to try an app or game before you buy it, some don't always offer lite versions. If I bought each of the media players I went through before finding dice player, I'd have to take out a couple of mortgages.
The only time I may have downloaded an apk was for gameloft. Of course I purchased the game, but their lack of support for android is astounding. It's like they don't want it to be sold. For example, many of their games can easily run by on our Transformer, but instead they make it only available to the xoom or galaxy tab, and no they don't have any exclusive deals with those companies.
Glu is a different story. I appreciate their work in putting high quality games out but the pay to play feature is getting old quick. I'd rather pay 10 bucks for infinity blade than pay a buck here and there and end up spending more than its worth without noticing.
From things my fiancee has told me about people and their iPods, if piracy was a big concern, I would not touch iOS with a twenty thousand dollar anti-piracy framework let along develop for it lol. Can't say that I hear much about it on Android, although I'm sure there is just as much.
In Android, IMHO there is a fair model available and going much past the what was intended, means either you are doing it wrong or you're stupid. People can make piracy (and cheating) harder than the average people. But then you're just going to have the really smart ones pull it off, and probably make more in the long run than the worthless game. The best you can do is lose users, money, and time, by putting to much into anti-piracy efforts, versus making a better and more affordable game. 1 x $6 game that gets pirated more than it sold, versus 4 x $1 games that probably gets pirated as often as it's sold is still a gain.
If it does more than play video and accept input, you can't make a pirate (or cheat) proof game. No way mathematically in my honest opinion.
Sent from my Transformer TF101 using Tapatalk
imitebewrong said:
IOS apps are easily pirated as well.. I just don't see how that is a legitimate reason to turn down some extra profits by porting it to Android.
Piracy runs rampant on any OS, mobile or not. The Infinity Blade developers might use that as an excuse for some secret underlying hatred for Android
Sent from my Transformer TF101 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Epic Games have a deal with Apple to keep the game exclusive to iOS. Whatever they give as a reason not to go to Android is PR bull****.
To any Devs think about piracy on Android chew on this, Android market just hit 10 billion downloads, 25% of those were game downloads. Pardon my math but that's a **** LOAD of downloads. You'd think Epic Games weren't EPIC STUPID enough to port their game to Android.
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Still aside from Epic. A number of iOS cite android as piracy magnet. I can't wait till we shed this as the OS matures which I believe (aside from small hickups) is already at apples doorstep. I'm willing to bet the next major upgrade we receive will not only catch up to iOS but surpass it.
Sent from my T959 using Tapatalk
Isn't there an app for that on iOS? (Seriously)
Pirates! Scurvy dogs.
Is there a pirated app that will make my transformer work like an ipad? Bleh!
fliparsenal said:
Still aside from Epic. A number of iOS cite android as piracy magnet. I can't wait till we shed this as the OS matures which I believe (aside from small hickups) is already at apples doorstep. I'm willing to bet the next major upgrade we receive will not only catch up to iOS but surpass it.
Sent from my T959 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That is a red herring. It's about the equivalent of saying you won't develop for Xbox 360 because of Piracy and you will stick with developing for PS3. Total and utter bull****.
ease of piracy
The problem with android is, how easy it is to download and install pirated apps..
On iOS you have to jailbreak first, when you use Android you check off a little box and voila - instant access to all the apps that you can find using, ironically, Google..
Let's say for instance you had to root an Android phone, and not using click-to-root methods, but actually "working" a bit for it..
How many of the people who now just share apps, would consider it too much of a hassle/risk ? (chance of bricking, and all that )
TheTransformer said:
The problem with android is, how easy it is to download and install pirated apps..
On iOS you have to jailbreak first, when you use Android you check off a little box and voila - instant access to all the apps that you can find using, ironically, Google..
Let's say for instance you had to root an Android phone, and not using click-to-root methods, but actually "working" a bit for it..
How many of the people who now just share apps, would consider it too much of a hassle/risk ? (chance of bricking, and all that )
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, that's what conventional wisdom would tell you. And yet the numbers of piracy are the same on both sides of the fence.
MOD EDIT: XDA DOES NOT SUPPORT PIRACY IN ANY FORM, "ETHICAL PIRACY" OR NOT.
6. Do not post warez.
If a piece of software requires you to pay to use it, either pay or find your cracks and serials somewhere else. We do not accept warez nor do we permit any member to promote or describe ways in which Warez, cracks, serial codes or other means of avoiding payment, can be obtained.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Meh. Piracy on Android is more hassle than it's worth. I can understand it for $100 PC games, where the pirates can actually deliver a superior product to the retail outlet (DRM infestations, etc), but for $1-5 apps on the Android/iOS market? Nah.
TheTransformer said:
The problem with android is, how easy it is to download and install pirated apps..
On iOS you have to jailbreak first, when you use Android you check off a little box and voila - instant access to all the apps that you can find using, ironically, Google..
Let's say for instance you had to root an Android phone, and not using click-to-root methods, but actually "working" a bit for it..
How many of the people who now just share apps, would consider it too much of a hassle/risk ? (chance of bricking, and all that )
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sent from my Transformer TF101 using xda premium
Once jailbroken though, you can install an app-store like app that downloads every app for free... Making the effort to jailbreak, and then install this app makes using pirated apps even easier than searching and downloading an apk for Android.
There's no doubt piracy is a factor on every OS... and someone is going to make it easy for an average user..... Although, Android does tend to have more technically inclined users than IOS.
Piracy on Android? There will always be piracy regardless of whatever platform its on.
Xbox 360: People mod their consoles to play pirated games.
PS3: Same thing
PC: same thing with piracy
iOS devices: Jailbreak and install unauthorized apps/games from third-party "app stores"
Android: this will be the same thing. It's nothing new...
If anything, its the way the game developers market their game. For example,
Let's take a look at Gameloft taking advantage of "device availability." Devices such as the Transformer can play the game... but somehow Galaxy Tab 10.1 can't!? so this forces the customer to find a apk for it and download the apk and finds out that its working!
Small little things like that irritate the customers. Kinda the same thing with GTA III and its device launch. But they actually have a legitimate reason because it doesn't run on the device.
I think the guy who download a pirated apk has no money to buy the real app, or has no the way to buy it, even, having the money and the willing to buy the app.
Here, in Argentina, there is no other way to buy an Android app on Market if you don't have an international credit card. A lot of people gets the money in cash, no banks involved, so, to get the credit card you need to work in a corporation o have a very good job (I'm talking about Argentina).
-
Ep2008 is right, 15 minutes is not enough for test some apps, even, some apps has misleading descriptions. Sometimes the app does not works well on your device (in iOS you can buy it and you know that it will works well).
Buy an app is a risk if the developer is "jhon Doe" (or Gameloft...) but, if you are buying from, for example, Rockstar, you know that you are buying something that worth you money.
Developers who complains about Android are the ones who don't have a good reputation.
As a small developer:
1) I mostly make ad supported games right now (Google allows selling only from 20 countries, mine not included) so I'm happy if someone copies it of course.
2) If someone blocks ads I don't much care as long as he is happy and recommends my games to others,
3) From what I read from other (small) developers piracy is not that high of an issue (some of them were counting the pirated copies and it was like 1% or sth like that).
For larger companies and more pricier games the percentage is probably much higher, I don't know. But mostly those who pirate a game wouldn't buy it anyway. And they can recommend it to those who buy.
Personally I also prefer ad supported but free games (like Aporkalypse, great fun, ads not problematic) - but some people hate them, I know.
zephiK said:
Piracy on Android? There will always be piracy regardless of whatever platform its on.
Xbox 360: People mod their consoles to play pirated games.
PS3: Same thing
PC: same thing with piracy
iOS devices: Jailbreak and install unauthorized apps/games.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Piracy is virtually non existant on PS3. It has the lowest piracy rate of, any platform.
Sent from my LT18i using Tapatalk
This is not to say I'm a robot. My 10 year old nephew downloads apostle because he can't buy for his tablet.
Just got done talking to Amazon and discovered that I'm still in the window to be able to return the OUYA and get a full refund, so I'm taking that opportunity rather than continue to hope that the OUYA team will decide to deliver on the open console they promised.
After seeing how others have been treated and being ignored myself, I simply have no faith in their ability to deliver. Instead I see only more of the same, and instead of problems being fixed I see OUYA choosing to release version 2.0. If they'd screw over the kick-start backers, why wouldn't they screw over us too? The lack of communication, lack of transparency, lack of honesty make me think the OUYA have no future going forward and no vision beyond chasing the next customer at the expense of current ones.
Why would I stick around? To throw more good money after bad? Even if the community manages to paper around most of the issues plaguing the console, it will be at the expense of the console functionality--being able to just buy a game and play it, instead everything will eventually be through the Google Play Store (in which case what is the point of buying OUYA games?) or there will be all sorts of alternative stores trying to deliver OUYA Discovery store games without the OUYA team's blessings and that will only work for so long before it gets categorized as piracy...
What future is there here?
And please don't say XBMC, because one of the reasons I'm throwing in the towel is because I am unable to get my USB drive with all my videos recognized on the OUYA. That being the case, it's not even good to me as a Media Center device. Not when there are much better supported options available that I don't have to hack to make work all the time.
Emulation you say? What good is emulation with such a small internal disk and no real ability to expand the storage?
No, I'm done. But I'm wondering who else is thinking about walking away and returning their OUYA for a refund, and what are they planning on getting as an alternative?
Sent from my Nook HD+ using Tapatalk HD
bornagainpenguin said:
Just got done talking to Amazon and discovered that I'm still in the window to be able to return the OUYA and get a full refund, so I'm taking that opportunity rather than continue to hope that the OUYA team will decide to deliver on the open console they promised.
After seeing how others have been treated and being ignored myself, I simply have no faith in their ability to deliver. Instead I see only more of the same, and instead of problems being fixed I see OUYA choosing to release version 2.0. If they'd screw over the kick-start backers, why wouldn't they screw over us too? The lack of communication, lack of transparency, lack of honesty make me think the OUYA have no future going forward and no vision beyond chasing the next customer at the expense of current ones.
Why would I stick around? To throw more good money after bad? Even if the community manages to paper around most of the issues plaguing the console, it will be at the expense of the console functionality--being able to just buy a game and play it, instead everything will eventually be through the Google Play Store (in which case what is the point of buying OUYA games?) or there will be all sorts of alternative stores trying to deliver OUYA Discovery store games without the OUYA team's blessings and that will only work for so long before it gets categorized as piracy...
What future is there here?
And please don't say XBMC, because one of the reasons I'm throwing in the towel is because I am unable to get my USB drive with all my videos recognized on the OUYA. That being the case, it's not even good to me as a Media Center device. Not when there are much better supported options available that I don't have to hack to make work all the time.
Emulation you say? What good is emulation with such a small internal disk and no real ability to expand the storage?
No, I'm done. But I'm wondering who else is thinking about walking away and returning their OUYA for a refund, and what are they planning on getting as an alternative?
Sent from my Nook HD+ using Tapatalk HD
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I for one am planning on using my OUYA as a paperweight. It looks quite good.
In all seriousness, I bought this never intending to bother with stock firmware, so when I get back to school I'll toss CM10.1 on it and use it to complement an ailing Logitech Revue. As a kickstarter backer though, I can't exactly return my unit, and I don't know that I'd feel good about selling it to anyone. Neat idea, awful execution on the software side.
That's a rather long post to tell us you just don't like your unit. Mine works fine. No problems with XBMC either. Playing across from my 4 terabyte home server with no issues.
BAXY Launcher as a replacement, live wallpapers, music and more. Kind of funny that you're returning yours because software that hasn't been released officially for it yet doesn't work right. That doesn't sound funny to you?
Blasted from my Samsung Galaxy SIII (CM10.1 Masta Mix).
Rirere said:
In all seriousness, I bought this never intending to bother with stock firmware, so when I get back to school I'll toss CM10.1 on it and use it to complement an ailing Logitech Revue. As a kickstarter backer though, I can't exactly return my unit, and I don't know that I'd feel good about selling it to anyone. Neat idea, awful execution on the software side.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well I differ slightly here. With exception of the USB bug, limited usability of the touchpad, and overscan issues (which AFAIK never effected me) I honestly thought the default launcher was pretty good.
The Discover menu could have been cleaned up a bit, but for a new console with a limited repository of software, it was pretty good at showing off what was available. Some of the lists were a bit redundant, but that was understandable considering at this point we're all playing the same games. I would have expected the lists to diverge quite severely as newer games were added.
I would have liked to see a list for games which had been bought by percentages, a queued downloads section somewhere so you knew what was already selected for download and a way to see how much was in the pipe left to come and a place for all the games you'd purchased previously so you could add them back in to your library more easily once you started building it up. Would have even been a good idea to add a wishlist option so you could remember games you'd tried in the past but decided to buy at a later time for some reason. Otherwise the interface really didn't offend me all that much.
It was hardware bugs and usability issues that bothered me more than anything.
And while I'm sure the community will be able to fix most of these, I feel that in doing so the OUYA stops being a game console and becomes an Android computer.
RED ZMAN said:
That's a rather long post to tell us you just don't like your unit.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Who says that I didn't like my OUYA? When it worked it was the most amazing thing in the world. I could have both games and my media all with the same device. I liked it so much that despite having intended it as an emulation\xbmc box I began buying games. Does that sound like someone who doesn't like their OUYA?
RED ZMAN said:
Mine works fine. No problems with XBMC either. Playing across from my 4 terabyte home server with no issues.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not everyone has a NAS of that type. I do however have a 1TB WB USB drive formatted to NTFS, a 2TB Seagate USB drive also formatted to NTFS, and a 3TB Toshiba USB drive formatted to FAT32. Since the last update my OUYA likes none of them. Before the last few updates I was able to make use of all of them by powering off the OUYA, plugging them in and upon restarting doing a system reset (returning to factory defaults).
Then I too was able to enjoy xbmc from my OUYA and was blown away by how well the video playback was. The problem is that I am unable to get my USB drive to mount ever since the latest update. And having to do a system reset every time I moved the OUYA somewhere to show it off and having to readd all my xbmc libraries and all my games got old after the third time. Worse was when mandatory updates hit and required me to do a reset because the update unmounted the USB somehow. Worse yet was when I posted about it on the OUYA twitter account and was completely ignored.
RED ZMAN said:
Kind of funny that you're returning yours because software that hasn't been released officially for it yet doesn't work right. That doesn't sound funny to you?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Perhaps if that was why I'm returning the OUYA it would seem funny. Unfortunately for your strawman argument I am not returning the OUYA because it doesn't run alpha software without issues; I am returning my OUYA because it is missing basic functionality in the USB port and unable to mount USB drives. Amazon has listed as my reason for return "defective" hardware.
Without being able to mount the USB drive I am unable to use my OUYA for its purpose. By breaking the USB mounting as they have, the OUYA team have rendered the console unfit for its purpose. Is that clear enough?
--bornagainpenguin
bornagainpenguin said:
Well I differ slightly here. With exception of the USB bug, limited usability of the touchpad, and overscan issues (which AFAIK never effected me) I honestly thought the default launcher was pretty good.
The Discover menu could have been cleaned up a bit, but for a new console with a limited repository of software, it was pretty good at showing off what was available. Some of the lists were a bit redundant, but that was understandable considering at this point we're all playing the same games. I would have expected the lists to diverge quite severely as newer games were added.
I would have liked to see a list for games which had been bought by percentages, a queued downloads section somewhere so you knew what was already selected for download and a way to see how much was in the pipe left to come and a place for all the games you'd purchased previously so you could add them back in to your library more easily once you started building it up. Would have even been a good idea to add a wishlist option so you could remember games you'd tried in the past but decided to buy at a later time for some reason. Otherwise the interface really didn't offend me all that much.
It was hardware bugs and usability issues that bothered me more than anything.
And while I'm sure the community will be able to fix most of these, I feel that in doing so the OUYA stops being a game console and becomes an Android computer.
Who says that I didn't like my OUYA? When it worked it was the most amazing thing in the world. I could have both games and my media all with the same device. I liked it so much that despite having intended it as an emulation\xbmc box I began buying games. Does that sound like someone who doesn't like their OUYA?
Not everyone has a NAS of that type. I do however have a 1TB WB USB drive formatted to NTFS, a 2TB Seagate USB drive also formatted to NTFS, and a 3TB Toshiba USB drive formatted to FAT32. Since the last update my OUYA likes none of them. Before the last few updates I was able to make use of all of them by powering off the OUYA, plugging them in and upon restarting doing a system reset (returning to factory defaults).
Then I too was able to enjoy xbmc from my OUYA and was blown away by how well the video playback was. The problem is that I am unable to get my USB drive to mount ever since the latest update. And having to do a system reset every time I moved the OUYA somewhere to show it off and having to readd all my xbmc libraries and all my games got old after the third time. Worse was when mandatory updates hit and required me to do a reset because the update unmounted the USB somehow. Worse yet was when I posted about it on the OUYA twitter account and was completely ignored.
Perhaps if that was why I'm returning the OUYA it would seem funny. Unfortunately for your strawman argument I am not returning the OUYA because it doesn't run alpha software without issues; I am returning my OUYA because it is missing basic functionality in the USB port and unable to mount USB drives. Amazon has listed as my reason for return "defective" hardware.
Without being able to mount the USB drive I am unable to use my OUYA for its purpose. By breaking the USB mounting as they have, the OUYA team have rendered the console unfit for its purpose. Is that clear enough?
--bornagainpenguin
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If it did work, don't you think it might have just broke in the last update. They wouldn't include a USB port if they didn't want everyone to use USB HDDs. It broke, but they'll fix it. Can't see returning it because of one update bug.
Sent from Nexus 7 FHD from XDA Premium HD
I'm rocking the hell out of my OUYA, with the Play store installed, sdcard enabled, and controller support becoming the norm I plan to be playing mine for a loooong time. It's a much more elegant solution than a phone or tablet with hdmi out. Yeah the OUYA store has a crappy selection, but that is about the only knock against it I have. Your loss man.
player911 said:
If it did work, don't you think it might have just broke in the last update. They wouldn't include a USB port if they didn't want everyone to use USB HDDs. It broke, but they'll fix it. Can't see returning it because of one update bug.
Sent from Nexus 7 FHD from XDA Premium HD
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's not just one update bug--before this to get it to work took a lot of jumping through hoops. And who says they'll get to fixing it in a reasonable time frame? Look how long it took for them to fix the overscan bug, people were waiting three or four months with an OUYA that couldn't play most games.
Maybe if I'd at least gotten a response or a promise that they were working on it, I might stay, but the silence from OUYA has been very telling. Amazon already refunded my debit card, so I don't think I have a choice at this point, even if I found out there was an update this afternoon that fixed everything.
Tapatalk steals from their customers by forcing them to view ads in a paid app! - - sent from my MIRAGE KANG running Nook Color
bornagainpenguin said:
Well I differ slightly here. With exception of the USB bug, limited usability of the touchpad, and overscan issues (which AFAIK never effected me) I honestly thought the default launcher was pretty good.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The stock launcher is horrible. I didn't think it was bad until I tried out BAXY, now I know it is utter crap. The BAXY developers have made a better launcher in 2 weeks than OUYA did in a year.
And while I'm sure the community will be able to fix most of these, I feel that in doing so the OUYA stops being a game console and becomes an Android computer.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thats already what it is. It is both.
Who says that I didn't like my OUYA? When it worked it was the most amazing thing in the world. I could have both games and my media all with the same device. I liked it so much that despite having intended it as an emulation\xbmc box I began buying games. Does that sound like someone who doesn't like their OUYA?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Who said you didn't like it? Let's see... *Reviews thread* Oh, I did. You returned it because something went buggy for you in an update that took place exactly one week ago. ONE WEEK. Hell, Sony borks an update on the PS3 a few times a year, and the latest one took what, 3 weeks for them to patch? I wonder how many PS3 owners returned their POS3's during that time period...
No, it doesn't sound like someone that didn't like their OUYA, it sounds like someone that is unrealistic and doesn't understand how dynamic the firmware and software is these days. In your opinion, they should have just seen there is a problem, clicked "FIX USB BUGS" on their SDK interface, and sent out an immediate update.
Right?
Not everyone has a NAS of that type. I do however have a 1TB WB USB drive formatted to NTFS, a 2TB Seagate USB drive also formatted to NTFS, and a 3TB Toshiba USB drive formatted to FAT32. Since the last update my OUYA likes none of them. Before the last few updates I was able to make use of all of them by powering off the OUYA, plugging them in and upon restarting doing a system reset (returning to factory defaults).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yay?
Perhaps if that was why I'm returning the OUYA it would seem funny. Unfortunately for your strawman argument I am not returning the OUYA because it doesn't run alpha software without issues; I am returning my OUYA because it is missing basic functionality in the USB port and unable to mount USB drives. Amazon has listed as my reason for return "defective" hardware.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Strawman argument? What is this, 1856? I didn't say anything sounded funny either. I reviewed the Amazon page for the OUYA, and yes, it says...
Need more storage? No problem. Just plug in an external hard drive into the USB 2.0 port.
So I agree, that would be basic functionality since it was listed to be a feature on the device. Did they screw it up? It looks like for some, yes, they did. Do you want a quick fix that borks something else or do you want them to fix it right, along with some other things, and submit an update once a week instead of once every day or two?
Oh, and don't pretend that "Amazon has listed as my reason for return 'Defective' hardware". You listed it as that for your reason of return, I've returned enough to Amazon to know how it works. Even that reason would be wrong. Your hardware is fine, the software has a defect. For now.
I guess I should return mine too since my USB mouse/keyboard combo keeps logging on as controller one. Amazon will list this as "damaged in shipping"
RED ZMAN said:
The stock launcher is horrible. I didn't think it was bad until I tried out BAXY, now I know it is utter crap. The BAXY developers have made a better launcher in 2 weeks than OUYA did in a year.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I guess I'd have to try out BAXY for myself to 'get' the improvement. I stand by what I said for now though, based on my use of the current store it doesn't strike me as all that bad.
RED ZMAN said:
Who said you didn't like it? Let's see... *Reviews thread* Oh, I did. You returned it because something went buggy for you in an update that took place exactly one week ago. ONE WEEK. Hell, Sony borks an update on the PS3 a few times a year, and the latest one took what, 3 weeks for them to patch? I wonder how many PS3 owners returned their POS3's during that time period...
No, it doesn't sound like someone that didn't like their OUYA, it sounds like someone that is unrealistic and doesn't understand how dynamic the firmware and software is these days. In your opinion, they should have just seen there is a problem, clicked "FIX USB BUGS" on their SDK interface, and sent out an immediate update.
Right?
I reviewed the Amazon page for the OUYA, and yes, it says...
Need more storage? No problem. Just plug in an external hard drive into the USB 2.0 port.
So I agree, that would be basic functionality since it was listed to be a feature on the device. Did they screw it up? It looks like for some, yes, they did. Do you want a quick fix that borks something else or do you want them to fix it right, along with some other things, and submit an update once a week instead of once every day or two?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ha-ha-ha....yeah, that's exactly what I wanted! The OUYA team needs to just press their magic doo-hickey in their super duper OUYA SDK and reenable large disks support, all the while serenading us with music from unicorn horns and rainbows coming from every television set! How did you know?
Only, sarcasm aside and all your attempts to make me out to be foolish to the contrary--yes, that is exactly what I do expect to see happen. I expect the OUYA team to fix what they broke. What I start to suspect is deliberate breakage.
Hear me out please. And help me to understand please how any other conclusion is a better one to fit the details...maybe you'd rather pretend the OUYA team is simply incompetent? Although honestly I'm not quite sure how that makes things better...
Let's look at the facts, shall we? All it takes to fix USB external hard drive detection is root installation of the Paragon app. That's all that needs to happen, then the external storage will work again. Will work without a need to do a system reset every time you plug in the drive or jump through other hoops. This is something I've been told over and over again and seen others told over and over again whenever the issue of large USB disks not mounting was brought up--just root and install Paragon and your troubles will be over. It's easy.
I've also seen mention of a script which could run which would make needed changes in vold.fstab (a bit more understanding of the system needed to accomplish but easy enough if you know what you're doing and can follow instructions.) Since not everyone is comfortable with editing system files the easy button is to simply use Paragon and this is why it gets recommended so often.
Meanwhile I sit here just amazed that an external application can do what the OUYA developers seemingly cannot do and will not discuss doing. Are we really supposed to believe the makers of the system are unable to fix so simple of a problem as this because it is so extremely complicated---booooooooo--be very very scared---booooooooo....and yet outsiders can program an app that can do it apparently without breaking down a sweat? Really? Maybe incompetence is looking to be a better rationale after all?
No, as I said before this whole thing stinks to high heaven and between the USB bug (which looks less and less like a bug every day that goes by without an official fix) and the overscan bug which if posts by people who suffer from it are to be believed is only a bandaid that did nothing to fix the actual problem, the locked bootloader, the lack of root, lack of openness, large numbers of people on kickstarter who still haven't gotten their units, DRM that makes you depend on OUYA being there to continue playing what you paid for, etc etc...it starts to look like a pattern. And with the lack of communication it's impossible to know if things are ever going to be different.
I'm not hopeful. I posted this thread in hopes of someone giving me a reason to find hope again, to decide to stick it out and expect things would get better and no one has. So tomorrow after work when I can finally have some time to head over to the UPS pick up while the store is still open I'll be taking the printout Amazon sent me and returning the OUYA to get my money back.
I've seen others also making this decision and posting about it too. Maybe if enough of us return our devices the number of people saying no sale and voting with their wallets will be enough to make the OUYA team wake up and fix things. If they're as incompetent as you seem to think they are, I'm not sure how much good it will do though....
--bornagainpenguin
I think most of the problem with not having root, which is the root of a lot of problems, is that the device is being made for more than the members on this forum and other developer communities.
The device needs to be user friendly to some degree. If they start making root a standard, than those who don't know otherwise will start bricking their consoles left, right and center
Sent from my Xperia S using xda premium
sasamifan said:
The device needs to be user friendly to some degree. If they start making root a standard, than those who don't know otherwise will start bricking their consoles left, right and center
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
All OUYA would have had to do was made it accessible via easter egg, similar to how developer options are enabled now on most roms by tapping the build number. They could even have paid homage by making it be the Konami code that unlocked things.
It's not *that* hard and is what they promised.
Most of the user friendly issues could be resolved by having a working recovery that allowed backups to be created before messing with the system. Something like CWM....
Sent from my Nook HD+ using Tapatalk HD
bornagainpenguin said:
Well I differ slightly here. With exception of the USB bug, limited usability of the touchpad, and overscan issues (which AFAIK never effected me) I honestly thought the default launcher was pretty good.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There's no accounting for taste. I'm glad it worked for you-- for me, it was a thoroughly unpleasant experience (probably made worse by the physical arrangement of the OUYA buttons on the controller, which for me are simply confusing). It just looked and felt very tacky to me, and seeing how paltry the native settings menus were before the system rolled over and coughed up the Android native Settings app made me feel like I was running someone's first theme.
bornagainpenguin said:
The Discover menu could have been cleaned up a bit, but for a new console with a limited repository of software, it was pretty good at showing off what was available. Some of the lists were a bit redundant, but that was understandable considering at this point we're all playing the same games. I would have expected the lists to diverge quite severely as newer games were added.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
For a storefront that ostensibly wants to highlight breakout titles as well as expose others, I found the display to be a fairly uninteresting grid that made it hard to see any given titles as standout. In their defense though, I was never really interested in the stock OUYA firmware.
bornagainpenguin said:
I would have liked to see a list for games which had been bought by percentages, a queued downloads section somewhere so you knew what was already selected for download and a way to see how much was in the pipe left to come and a place for all the games you'd purchased previously so you could add them back in to your library more easily once you started building it up. Would have even been a good idea to add a wishlist option so you could remember games you'd tried in the past but decided to buy at a later time for some reason. Otherwise the interface really didn't offend me all that much.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ditto.
bornagainpenguin said:
It was hardware bugs and usability issues that bothered me more than anything.
And while I'm sure the community will be able to fix most of these, I feel that in doing so the OUYA stops being a game console and becomes an Android computer.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
More or less yes, and if I could do it again I would definitely have opted for a different solution (probably one of the upgraded Google TV sets). Although I probably will enjoy messing with the OUYA later (not having a good TV at home makes this hard), I must confess that my interest in messing around with ROMs has been fading fast over the last few months (more or less coinciding with swapping out my Galaxy Nexus for a HTC One). I still primarily own and use Nexus to tinker, but for the TV? I kind of want to be a bit lazier there.
Anyway, as for what you were saying earlier, I doubt the bugs are out of deliberate malice but unintentional/unconscious priority bias. They're out to make money first over encouraging a dev community, which is understandable, but it means that any fixes and resources aren't going to go where we'd like. OUYA has had a sort of Jekyll/Hyde thing going for a while now-- is it a consumer product? A dev box? Both? It's harder than I think they realized to be both.
In the end I just couldn't do it. Subconsciously I guess I really didn't want to return my OUYA because I kept checking to see if there'd been any updates and putting off the return. It didn't help that I had to work overtime all week and kept missing the window where the drop off for UPS is. I finally got a hold of Amazon and cancelled the refund.
Nothing has changed, all of the issues I mentioned before still exist, but I just can't let go. If---a big gamble as far as I'm concerned---but IF the OUYA team do manage to pull themselves up from the tailspin they're currently in and fix the system so it'll do all that they promised us from the beginning, the OUYA has the potential to rule the family room. The truth is nothing else seems to be aiming for the same heights that the OUYA is. There are so many things they have right that it just frustrates me all the more when something doesn't work right.
And most of these things they keep getting wrong are things that are easily fixable! I think someone in the thread said that the launcher baxxy was banged out in two days? I see a fix for the USB problem was posted almost immediately on the OUYA developer forums in June. An app has been developed and posted that allows a one click root via a big button, just like we were promised... Like I said, frustrating.
But I'm in. For as long as the OUYA works, or can be made to work. For as long as there is a community who wants to keep going forward.
I apologize to anyone who thought I came off a troll, honestly I wasn't trying to be.
Sent from my Nook HD+ using Tapatalk HD
bornagainpenguin said:
In the end I just couldn't do it. Subconsciously I guess I really didn't want to return my OUYA because I kept checking to see if there'd been any updates and putting off the return. It didn't help that I had to work overtime all week and kept missing the window where the drop off for UPS is. I finally got a hold of Amazon and cancelled the refund.
Nothing has changed, all of the issues I mentioned before still exist, but I just can't let go. If---a big gamble as far as I'm concerned---but IF the OUYA team do manage to pull themselves up from the tailspin they're currently in and fix the system so it'll do all that they promised us from the beginning, the OUYA has the potential to rule the family room. The truth is nothing else seems to be aiming for the same heights that the OUYA is. There are so many things they have right that it just frustrates me all the more when something doesn't work right.
And most of these things they keep getting wrong are things that are easily fixable! I think someone in the thread said that the launcher baxxy was banged out in two days? I see a fix for the USB problem was posted almost immediately on the OUYA developer forums in June. An app has been developed and posted that allows a one click root via a big button, just like we were promised... Like I said, frustrating.
But I'm in. For as long as the OUYA works, or can be made to work. For as long as there is a community who wants to keep going forward.
I apologize to anyone who thought I came off a troll, honestly I wasn't trying to be.
Sent from my Nook HD+ using Tapatalk HD
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Trust me if you think OUYA have made a pigs ear of software you've never had a really bad Android box. I put up with the Minix Neo X5 for 6 months before binning it. That was a truly god awful pile of crap. I've done more with the OUYA in a month than I did in 6 with the Neo. Sure, it's not perfect... but it's on the right track.
RED ZMAN said:
That's a rather long post to tell us you just don't like your unit. Mine works fine. No problems with XBMC either. Playing across from my 4 terabyte home server with no issues.
BAXY Launcher as a replacement, live wallpapers, music and more. Kind of funny that you're returning yours because software that hasn't been released officially for it yet doesn't work right. That doesn't sound funny to you?
Blasted from my Samsung Galaxy SIII (CM10.1 Masta Mix).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Would you rather he write a post saying "I dont like the ouya it isnt open and i want my money back." you know there are people who do post that way, be happy he detailed his experience.
danbst said:
Trust me if you think OUYA have made a pigs ear of software you've never had a really bad Android box. I put up with the Minix Neo X5 for 6 months before binning it. That was a truly god awful pile of crap. I've done more with the OUYA in a month than I did in 6 with the Neo. Sure, it's not perfect... but it's on the right track.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well my first Android was a Pandigital Novel, so.....
Yeah, I get what you mean though. I was looking through the competition while I was unable to get to the UPS drop off point and kept thinking to myself that even with the stuff that OUYA's gotten wrong, they're still so much further ahead of the curve than anyone else! But that's why it's so frustrating to see them missing this stuff and ignoring the requests of their customers to fix things already. I really don't think it's as hard as people are pretending it to be.
--bornagainpenguin
bornagainpenguin said:
I really don't think it's as hard as people are pretending it to be.
--bornagainpenguin
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Your absolutely right if you look in the lk bootloader source it's really easy to make a button to get into bootloader. Alot of the other issues would only take someone with the source code a day or less (per issue and some one who is familiar with it).
Asadullah said:
Your absolutely right if you look in the lk bootloader source it's really easy to make a button to get into bootloader. Alot of the other issues would only take someone with the source code a day or less (per issue and some one who is familiar with it).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So you see what I mean and understand why I'm so skeptical when people keep making excuses for them?
Like I said over at Ouya Forums, it's a two line edit thereabouts. If it can be done by you or I in vold.fstab as a dirty hack, there's no reason why the OUYA team with their access to the source code can't fix it properly.
The only thing I can think is malicious interference or sheer incompetence to explain their reticence in fixing things.
Sent from my Nook HD+ using Tapatalk HD
I like my Ouya, and thank goodness they sent me a retail kit instead of a preorder kit. Maybe getting it really late is a blessing in disguise.
I agree with a lot of things said in this topic RE: the makers of this box. The hardware's fine (well mine was), but their customer service support is lacking. I haven't seen this much reputation damage since XBAWKS. (not XBone, XBAWKS).
If the dev community is not happy and abandons the thing... at least the controller is salvagable. Not as good as the X360 or PS3's, but decent and better than the unusual Wiichuck, more comfortable than a bluetooth clip gamepad, no proprietary connection protocols and no MAC address hacking needed.
RED ZMAN said:
That's a rather long post to tell us you just don't like your unit. Mine works fine. No problems with XBMC either. Playing across from my 4 terabyte home server with no issues.
BAXY Launcher as a replacement, live wallpapers, music and more. Kind of funny that you're returning yours because software that hasn't been released officially for it yet doesn't work right. That doesn't sound funny to you?
Blasted from my Samsung Galaxy SIII (CM10.1 Masta Mix).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
RED ZMAN!!!!, how make work CIFS.ko modules in ouya
i need mount NAS server in my home and add this munt at startup.
regards
Ariel
Maybe MOJO was a proof-of-concept style project (not terribly well executed), but even at the reduced price of $199 (did you pay $249? OUCH!!!!), the console is not competitive with Amazon's very similarly featured (and NO root or side-loading is required to access content!) $99 console. Add in the $49 CTRLr and....well you can do the math. My guess is that the Android 4.4 update will never come. I expect MCZ to allow MOJO to wither and die on the vine. IMO.
Domomojo said:
Maybe MOJO was a proof-of-concept style project (not terribly well executed), but even at the reduced price of $199 (did you pay $249? OUCH!!!!), the console is not competitive with Amazon's very similarly featured (and NO root or side-loading is required to access content!) $99 console. Add in the $49 CTRLr and....well you can do the math. My guess is that the Android 4.4 update will never come. I expect MCZ to allow MOJO to wither and die on the vine. IMO.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Huh? These are two very different devices. The FireTV is a cool, easy to operate, inexpensive unit with Amazon's own proprietary modified version of Android. The Mojo is a very high powered device using stock android and is more of a "hardcore Android users" type of device. More can be done with the Mojo due to the fact that it is running stock android, and the mojo clearly outperforms it. And, it is a *good* thing to be rooted and have the ability to side load apps
zektor said:
Huh? These are two very different devices. The FireTV is a cool, easy to operate, inexpensive unit with Amazon's own proprietary modified version of Android. The Mojo is a very high powered device using stock android and is more of a "hardcore Android users" type of device. More can be done with the Mojo due to the fact that it is running stock android, and the mojo clearly outperforms it. And, it is a *good* thing to be rooted and have the ability to side load apps
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The Rockchip RK3288 with Mali T628 will come out in a view weeks or a mound, and that one is gone be as fast or even faster then the Mad Catz
M.O.J.O., and will cost only US$ 120, and the plus points, the Rockchip RK3288 is gone have: HDMI 2.0 with a max resolution of 3840×2160 so
4K (The first SoC with real 4Kx2K video decoder), and 100M/1000M Ethernet and MUCH more.
And sorry, the price is what people will look at most of the time, and $199.99 is just to much for a Android TV BOX, even if you get a JoyPad with it, with
mouse function.
And a 2.4 GHz Wireless Dual Shock Sixaxis Controller Sony PlayStation 3 PS3 GPS3CT01 cost only $13.55, and works very smooth, my family have
two of them.
AmigaWolf said:
The Rockchip RK3288 with Mali T628 will come out in a view weeks or a mound, and that one is gone be as fast or even faster then the Mad Catz
M.O.J.O., and will cost only US$ 120, and the plus points, the Rockchip RK3288 is gone have: HDMI 2.0 with a max resolution of 3840×2160 so
4K (The first SoC with real 4Kx2K video decoder), and 100M/1000M Ethernet and MUCH more.
And sorry, the price is what people will look at most of the time, and $199.99 is just to much for a Android TV BOX, even if you get a JoyPad with it, with
mouse function.
And a 2.4 GHz Wireless Dual Shock Sixaxis Controller Sony PlayStation 3 PS3 GPS3CT01 cost only $13.55, and works very smooth, my family have
two of them.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ewwww...I hate third party overseas rip-off controllers. I wouldn't pay 55 cents for that to be honest I would much rather have the official controller...which is around $50-$60, but is legit. The Mad Catz controller is rock solid and worth $50 as well in my opinion. To each their own I suppose.
I don't care much for Rockchip, Mali. I'm an Nvidia guy personally, and Tegra has been the staple for excellence in terms of performance and gaming (and games designed for Tegra) for some time now. If I were to go with any other chip it would be a TI OMAP. Again, to each their own.
$199 is not too much depending on who you ask. I'd love to see it cheaper (or even a cheaper version that did not include a controller) to be honest, but $199 is a pretty cheap en devour for everything this sucker can do and the performance I yield with it. I purchased my Sega Genesis brand new in 1989 for $189.99 I believe. It came with one game (Altered Beast) and that was it. Now, for $199 I can play the entire Genesis arsenal along with every other game system up to N64 with perfect performance. And Netflix, surf the net, manage a massive music collection, and more...and view it on a 48 inch modern TV via HDMI. Pretty good I say for $199.
zektor said:
Ewwww...I hate third party overseas rip-off controllers. I wouldn't pay 55 cents for that to be honest I would much rather have the official controller...which is around $50-$60, but is legit. The Mad Catz controller is rock solid and worth $50 as well in my opinion. To each their own I suppose.
I don't care much for Rockchip, Mali. I'm an Nvidia guy personally, and Tegra has been the staple for excellence in terms of performance and gaming (and games designed for Tegra) for some time now. If I were to go with any other chip it would be a TI OMAP. Again, to each their own.
$199 is not too much depending on who you ask. I'd love to see it cheaper (or even a cheaper version that did not include a controller) to be honest, but $199 is a pretty cheap en devour for everything this sucker can do and the performance I yield with it. I purchased my Sega Genesis brand new in 1989 for $189.99 I believe. It came with one game (Altered Beast) and that was it. Now, for $199 I can play the entire Genesis arsenal along with every other game system up to N64 with perfect performance. And Netflix, surf the net, manage a massive music collection, and more...and view it on a 48 inch modern TV via HDMI. Pretty good I say for $199.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry but $199 it to much, you have todo to much work to get your baby (Mad Catz M.O.J.O.) working good, more then 95% of the Android games you cannot play with JoyPad, and the biggest stupit thing Mad Catz has done is not have there own JoyPad key mapper with this Android TV BOX, like what NVIDIA shield have done, and one that is special made for the Mad Catz M.O.J.O. and his JoyPad so it will work very easy and good.
And a simple remote controller with a OFF and ON button.
And NTFS write support.
If they had done that it wold be a great Android TV BOX, but they didn't and thats why MOST people won't but the Mad Catz M.O.J.O.
Wow, you seem to have a lot of hatred toward the Mojo. I am not sure what issues you have experienced with yours, but you make it out like it is some sort of a fact that the device is not very good...which is far from fact. If you know what you are doing, setup is ridiculously easy. The setup/installation methods I had used would have been exactly what I would have done to *any* Android device. Root (if possible), sideload some of my personal apps....same thing I have done with any phone or tablet I have owned for years.
I also do not understand this whole "its SO expensive" nonsense. $199 is not too expensive for a quality built device by a reputable manufacturer that has been in the business for a VERY long long. I think $129 is too expensive for a Asian knock off device.
The rockchip is in that "Ugoos" thing. Maybe that would be an better option for you
EDIT: Ohh..now I see. You had a bad experience with yours, and Bol.com refunded your money instead of replacing the product. Now I get it. You don't own it anymore.
zektor said:
Wow, you seem to have a lot of hatred toward the Mojo. I am not sure what issues you have experienced with yours, but you make it out like it is some sort of a fact that the device is not very good...which is far from fact. If you know what you are doing, setup is ridiculously easy. The setup/installation methods I had used would have been exactly what I would have done to *any* Android device. Root (if possible), sideload some of my personal apps....same thing I have done with any phone or tablet I have owned for years.
I also do not understand this whole "its SO expensive" nonsense. $199 is not too expensive for a quality built device by a reputable manufacturer that has been in the business for a VERY long long. I think $129 is too expensive for a Asian knock off device.
The rockchip is in that "Ugoos" thing. Maybe that would be an better option for you
EDIT: Ohh..now I see. You had a bad experience with yours, and Bol.com refunded your money instead of replacing the product. Now I get it. You don't own it anymore.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No not more, but i do have hatred toward the Mojo, i just telling the facts, Most people just don't understand allot, they buy a product and think
they are done, plug and play, and sorry to say but thats not with the Mad Catz M.O.J.O.
But ALL the other Android TV BOXES have a ON OFF button and NTFS write support, and they have not a JoyPad key mapper App special for
that device, because simply it did not came with a JoyPad.
And if they just made dose 3 things, then it would have been a great Android TV Game BOX.
The NVIDIA SHIELD has a JoyPad key mapper App special for that device and thats only logical, and it has NTFS write support, they even recommend if you use a 64GB SD Card that you format it to NTFS, and copy the game DATA to it.
http://shield.nvidia.com/user-guide/sd-card/
So why did Mad Catz did that not with there M.O.J.O.?
But we will see how the ZERO Devices Z6C - RK3288 VoIP & Games will do, it looks good.
AmigaWolf said:
No not more, but i do have hatred toward the Mojo, i just telling the facts, Most people just don't understand allot, they buy a product and think
they are done, plug and play, and sorry to say but thats not with the Mad Catz M.O.J.O.
But ALL the other Android TV BOXES have a ON OFF button and NTFS write support, and they have not a JoyPad key mapper App special for
that device, because simply it did not came with a JoyPad.
And if they just made dose 3 things, then it would have been a great Android TV Game BOX.
The NVIDIA SHIELD has a JoyPad key mapper App special for that device and thats only logical, and it has NTFS write support, they even recommend if you use a 64GB SD Card that you format it to NTFS, and copy the game DATA to it.
http://shield.nvidia.com/user-guide/sd-card/
So why did Mad Catz did that not with there M.O.J.O.?
But we will see how the ZERO Devices Z6C - RK3288 VoIP & Games will do, it looks good.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The thing that gets me is that since you have had your bad experience, you have plastered these two tiny Mojo forums with nonsense about how this or that is "better", "why can't the Mojo do this", "where is the firmware", blah blah blah. If you do not care for the device the best way to protest is not to post in the forums. It is certainly not making any kind of contribution.
And you keep bringing up keymappers. Who cares about a keymapper? I personally think that they tend to suck and never work properly anyway. You would only need that to play games that were never designed for non-touch screen consoles with controllers. I only play games with controller support (everything I have run thus far does..except "Angry Birds"...which works a treat with a mouse BTW), and rarely run into anything worthwhile playing that does not. Games that do not provide controller support or in integrated method of mapping hardware buttons are simply not worth my time unless it is a game like Angry Birds that plays properly with a mouse. Why should Mad Catz compensate for games that were either designed ONLY for a touch screen (which the Mojo does not have BTW!) or games that have not been properly updated by the developers to include controller support? Controller support has been in the Android OS for quite some time....Mad Catz is not treading any new ground here. Even still, they did compensate with the inclusion of the mouse mode...something they really didn't even need to do honestly. I use a wireless mouse with mine religiously and the controller switch never moves out of controller mode. Your argument regarding this is pointless.
It is obvious that you want a system that is "plug and play", something you do not have to think about to use. You seem to keep calling out other android boxes and the Shield over and over, again and again in these forums...more or less trolling them in an attempt to spread your "Mojo hatred" gospel around.
You don't even own the device anymore. The best advice I can give you is to buy a Shield, or Mali, rockchip, YouGoose, or whatever else you want to migrate to, move to THAT forum and do something more constructive with your posts/comments. Hopefully you will not have a bad experience with one of these devices and have to migrate to a different device/forum afterward. If you think your propaganda is going to sway anyone away from the Mojo...I doubt it. An experienced user will understand its potential and make their own purchasing decisions. While you may be correct that "most users want to plug it in and be done", you are sorely mistaken with the users that navigate the XDA forums. If you believe that, my personal opinion is that you do not even belong here. This has always been the forums people come for hacking, developing, creating, modifying, etc. You do not sound to be that type of person at all.
You will see support for more things down the road as development continues and more people get their hands on the device and start chopping away at it and that requires patience, but you seem to want that quick fix. One thing is for certain and that is this is not the device for you. I am not sure really what would be. Maybe a Playstation or Xbox.
@Domomojo, the original topic starter: The title of this topic is very misleading. Mad Catz has "embraced" the FireHD? Looks like the Mojo is "dead"? Please link to a press release that states these. It's garbage like this that is the beginning of stupid rumors.
IM having the freezing issue with mine but I'm not sending mine away wouldn't want to do without it now I agree with zektor it is not dear for what you can do on this baby and its just the beginning you have to have patience in the meantime couldn't be happier with mad catz as zektor says the controller is well made I would buy a mojo 2 with tegra k1 in a heartbeat
Domomojo said:
My guess is that the Android 4.4 update will never come. I expect MCZ to allow MOJO to wither and die on the vine. IMO.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I disagree, MCZ doesn't have much experience with software (Android).. so I expect that's the delay.
I wouldn't be surprised if it's bundled with the Ouya release.. lol never thought I would see the day!
Mojo compared to the Amazon fire tv, I think it's still better for many reasons:
Better hardware
Best controller (PC, Android & travel clip)
Easily rooted, vanilla Google
Tegra store, 99% compatibility
The keymapper, for me is a non-issue as mentioned and if it was an issue, there's great 3rd party software.
MCZ did say they had plans for making their own mapper (mentioned in the dev docs) ... some also mentioned something about using nvidia's mapper.. but I doubt that would happen... unless the shield 2 is a tv box and MZC is making their controller also
Don't be hating on @AmigaWolf, he's just particular about his devices... even as an Ex-mojo own he's welcome here
BTW, I agree that ZERO Devices Z6C looks very cheap, make sure you buy it from a good place where you can return it
zektor said:
@Domomojo, the original topic starter: The title of this topic is very misleading. Mad Catz has "embraced" the FireHD? Looks like the Mojo is "dead"? Please link to a press release that states these. It's garbage like this that is the beginning of stupid rumors.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You're aware that the Amazon FireTV Controller is a Mad Catz product right?
With respect to the pending demise (strictly my opinion) of the MOJO, unfortunately, a certain minimum number of ongoing unit sales are required in order for a company to continue to develop and support a product. MOJO doesn't seem to be hitting that number. The fact that it requires rooting to access most content renders it unappealing to the masses, and there just aren't enough "hard core" Android gamers out there willing to drop $199 on the console to keep it going IMO. The MOJO is better from a hardware perspective, but not that much better. The average buyer will be much more satisfied (and much less frustrated) with a $99 FireTV paired with a $49 CTLRr.
PS: The $49 CTRLr supports both BT4 and BT2.2, no dongle required. The controller supplied with the MOJO (when I bought mine anyway) requires a dongle, which wastes the USB 3.0 port, and complicates using the controller with other mobile platforms not yet supporting Android 4.4.
Domomojo said:
You're aware that the Amazon FireTV Controller is a Mad Catz product right?
With respect to the pending demise (strictly my opinion) of the MOJO, unfortunately, a certain minimum number of ongoing unit sales are required in order for a company to continue to develop and support a product. MOJO doesn't seem to be hitting that number. The fact that it requires rooting to access most content renders it unappealing to the masses, and there just aren't enough "hard core" Android gamers out there willing to drop $199 on the console to keep it going IMO. The MOJO is better from a hardware perspective, but not that much better. The average buyer will be much more satisfied (and much less frustrated) with a $99 FireTV paired with a $49 CTLRr.
PS: The $49 CTRLr supports both BT4 and BT2.2, no dongle required. The controller supplied with the MOJO (when I bought mine anyway) requires a dongle, which wastes the USB 3.0 port, and complicates using the controller with other mobile platforms not yet supporting Android 4.4.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Mad Catz is in the controller business and has been for decades. I guess they are "embracing" everything. If the "pending demise" is opinion, edit your topic title to reflect that. As it stands now, you are conveying that it is fact, which it is not. You also mention Mojo not hitting the numbers. I am guess you have some insider information and have some sales numbers? Press releases? Anything to actually back up what you are telling people?
The fact that the Fire tv uses Amazon's OS is reason enough not to want that system. Doesn't seem likes its been rooted yet? The fact that the MOJO has easy root access and standard Android is a huge plus in my opinion. I agree, your average plug and play user would probably not like it.
The CTRLR is an awesome controller and MadCatz should be trying to get it on as many Android tv devices as possible, it just makes good business sense. I don't really see how that relates to MadCatz giving up on the MOJO. Really, the only reason you may need a different remote or keyboard is if you type a lot. The low battery usage alone is a huge plus added in.
I am anxiously awaiting the kit kat update and OUYA update, so hopefully they do come. We always complain when things are rushed out and don't work appropriately, but then we complain when something doesn't come quick enough. Hopefully its just a case of all the ducks in a line.
christoph80 said:
The fact that the Fire tv uses Amazon's OS is reason enough not to want that system. Doesn't seem likes its been rooted yet? The fact that the MOJO has easy root access and standard Android is a huge plus in my opinion. I agree, your average plug and play user would probably not like it.
The CTRLR is an awesome controller and MadCatz should be trying to get it on as many Android tv devices as possible, it just makes good business sense. I don't really see how that relates to MadCatz giving up on the MOJO. Really, the only reason you may need a different remote or keyboard is if you type a lot. The low battery usage alone is a huge plus added in.
I am anxiously awaiting the kit kat update and OUYA update, so hopefully they do come. We always complain when things are rushed out and don't work appropriately, but then we complain when something doesn't come quick enough. Hopefully its just a case of all the ducks in a line.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not only is it not rooted yet and no real way to sideload apps, but it still has no keyboard support. It's not even in the same league as the Mojo. I am not knocking the FireTV however, I think it is a neat device for the average user. I just expect a lot more out of my devices
zektor said:
Who cares about a keymapper?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
SO you buy (like you say) a Android Game TV BOX, but you don't care about games?
So you only want to play a hand full of GOOD Android games, because most are noting special, and the good games works most of the time
only with tough screen, only 1% of the games on android (maybe even less) works with a JoyPad.
you are sorely mistaken with the users that navigate the XDA forums. If you believe that, my personal opinion is that you do not even
belong here. This has always been the forums people come for hacking, developing, creating, modifying, etc. You do not sound to be that type
of person at all.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry but only about 1% of the people are going to XDA that want to buy a Android Game TV BOX like the M.O.J.O., yes later some go to XDA,
because they thought they bought a easy Android Game TV BOX, where they could play allot of games on.
You will see support for more things down the road as development continues and more people get their hands on the device and start
chopping away at it and that requires patience, but you seem to want that quick fix.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry to say but the Mad Catz M.O.J.O. is already 7 a 8 mounts on the market and still we have not the basics, NTFS write support and
JoyPad key mapper App special for that device, and maybe thats not in portent to you but it is for the 99% of the people that want a good
Android Game TV BOX, thats cost $199, and also $ 200,- is allot of money for most people for just a Android Game TV BOX (with of course a
JoyPad).
And the fact you need to Root to access most content is also unappealing to the masses, just like Domomojo says.
Mad Catz is in the controller business and has been for decades. I guess they are "embracing" everything. If the "pending demise" is opinion, edit your topic title to reflect that. As it stands now, you are conveying that it is fact, which it is not. You also mention Mojo not hitting the numbers. I am guess you have some insider information and have some sales numbers? Press releases? Anything to actually back up what you are telling people?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And sorry to say but if i look at Amazon and Newegg i see only a view people buying the Mad Catz M.O.J.O., and it get less stars and eggs then the
NVIDIA SHIELD, and that IS bad for business.
gwaldo said:
Don't be hating on @AmigaWolf, he's just particular about his devices... even as an
Ex-mojo own he's welcome here
BTW, I agree that ZERO Devices Z6C looks very cheap, make sure you buy it from a good place where you can return it
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And thank you for your kind words gwaldo, and yes i was just venting a little bit, but sorry to say the ZERO Devices Z6C does not look more
cheaper then the Mad Catz M.O.J.O., because the M.O.J.O. is also only made of plastic, and thats also one thing Mad Catz had to
made different, because it feels and looks cheap.
I Just Need To Vent A Bit
zektor said:
Mad Catz is in the controller business and has been for decades. I guess they are "embracing" everything. If the "pending demise" is opinion, edit your topic title to reflect that. As it stands now, you are conveying that it is fact, which it is not. You also mention Mojo not hitting the numbers. I am guess you have some insider information and have some sales numbers? Press releases? Anything to actually back up what you are telling people?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Mad Catz is in the controller business, and has been for decades, but they've never made a private label controller for Amazon's FireTV have they? I'd call that "embracing" the device. I'm sure they hope Amazon sells a billion FireTVs, each one with a pair of controllers. As far as editing my title, I think "Looks like" is qualifier enough. WRT information, everything I know is in the public domain. do your own homework. All that said, I have no reason to want MOJO not to be a commercial success. I just don't think the company has the resources to make it a commercial success. I don't even think they're selling enough units to continue to dedicate manpower to supporting the unit. Time will tell.
Domomojo said:
Mad Catz is in the controller business, and has been for decades, but they've never made a private label controller for Amazon's FireTV have they? I'd call that "embracing" the device. I'm sure they hope Amazon sells a billion FireTVs, each one with a pair of controllers. As far as editing my title, I think "Looks like" is qualifier enough. WRT information, everything I know is in the public domain. do your own homework. All that said, I have no reason to want MOJO not to be a commercial success. I just don't think the company has the resources to make it a commercial success. I don't even think they're selling enough units to continue to dedicate manpower to supporting the unit. Time will tell.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
At least you own the device and want it to succeed. Unlike the "other" poster that does not own it and seems to be making his life's mission to dissuade people from purchasing it (and keeps promoting other junk) and to continually whine about why it doesn't have something that >he< wants. It's really getting old now. I love the Mojo and want to contribute to it, but it might not be in these forums as there seems to be no control over this idiocy.
AmigaWolf said:
And thank you for your kind words gwaldo, and yes i was just venting a little bit, but sorry to say the ZERO Devices Z6C does not look more
cheaper then the Mad Catz M.O.J.O., because the M.O.J.O. is also only made of plastic, and thats also one thing Mad Catz had to
made different, because it feels and looks cheap.
I Just Need To Vent A Bit
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What's cheap about he mojo? (apart from software issues) it's good quality.. the pics on that device (IMHO) look nasty cheap.. but i'm not one for aesthetics so I don't care what it looks like... but with tech it's sometimes better to pay extra for good tech that out performs the cheaper tech.
An old Ukraine friend once said to me, 'if you have to ask how much it is, you can't afford it' and 'buy cheap, buy it twice'... stuck with me.
zektor said:
I love the Mojo and want to contribute to it, but it might not be in these forums as there seems to be no control over this idiocy.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There's no idiocy.. it's the internet.. embrace free speech (while we have it!).
Don't let the hardcore tech freaks get you down.. I'm a fan of the mojo.. I wrote a bit about it on my site (http://xpcoin.com)
This is the largest forum for the mojo that I know of.. shame it's not bigger but it's niche and not $99.
There will be a turning point when people will want a mojo. Competitors like fireTV , google, cheaper devices all help the mojo because people will compare it... and some will see the advantages to having a better quality unity.
Today most don't, but I see this changing as android evolves and it's users, nvidia is heavily invested in this also.
I dont know if the mojo is a success or failure from MCZ point of view.. but for being among the first 'micro-consoles' and not selling out (ie ouya's nasty controller), it's ahead of the pack.. and positioned for the future (K1 etc)
gwaldo said:
What's cheap about he mojo? (apart from software issues) it's good quality.. the pics on that device (IMHO) look nasty cheap.. but i'm not one for aesthetics so I don't care what it looks like... but with tech it's sometimes better to pay extra for good tech that out performs the cheaper tech.
An old Ukraine friend once said to me, 'if you have to ask how much it is, you can't afford it' and 'buy cheap, buy it twice'... stuck with me.
There's no idiocy.. it's the internet.. embrace free speech (while we have it!).
Don't let the hardcore tech freaks get you down.. I'm a fan of the mojo.. I wrote a bit about it on my site (http://xpcoin.com)
This is the largest forum for the mojo that I know of.. shame it's not bigger but it's niche and not $99.
There will be a turning point when people will want a mojo. Competitors like fireTV , google, cheaper devices all help the mojo because people will compare it... and some will see the advantages to having a better quality unity.
Today most don't, but I see this changing as android evolves and it's users, nvidia is heavily invested in this also.
I dont know if the mojo is a success or failure from MCZ point of view.. but for being among the first 'micro-consoles' and not selling out (ie ouya's nasty controller), it's ahead of the pack.. and positioned for the future (K1 etc)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No worries at all. I laugh at people like this doof. The sad part is that he knows deep down that the Mojo is the best set top box available currently, but he had issues and was not able to obtain another one. Now, the Shield and the Mali, and the Rockchip, and the...whatever is what he is trying to sell to the public to try to dissuade them from getting the device that he deep down really wants to own. I can read between the lines AmigaWolf. I know you want the Mojo but can't obtain it now. I am sorry for your loss. You will get it again, you just need to save up a little bit.
zektor said:
No worries at all. I laugh at people like this doof. The sad part is that he knows deep down that the Mojo is the best set top box available currently, but he had issues and was not able to obtain another one. Now, the Shield and the Mali, and the Rockchip, and the...whatever is what he is trying to sell to the public to try to dissuade them from getting the device that he deep down really wants to own. I can read between the lines AmigaWolf. I know you want the Mojo but can't obtain it now. I am sorry for your loss. You will get it again, you just need to save up a little bit.
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Click to collapse
I know it's hard to hear the truth, i feel for you i really do.
I have MOJO for several months now, when i initially bought it, i showed it to all my friends, and bragged about the potential of this product.
After all this months, its just sad, the lack of support or competence of the manufacters to actually stand by their product.
Beeing a developer and an android enthusiast, it's just sad to see how poorly this hole process has been developed.
The console itself has several issues, the play store, for me is a huge deal breaker. You can't have a main selling point of the product (the full access to play store and tegra zone) when most of the products there, altought i can see them, are not compatible either with the console itself, or worse, the gamepad isn't recognized. Titles like Portal 2 and Half Life 2, made precisely for MOJO's hardware, and i cant play it.
You can't also ask regular users to Root their device after every update. Either support the non rooted version, or it has to be rooted by default.
I could be a regular user who just wants to play some vice city on my TV, don't know or care how to root. This isn't a developer edition!!
The OS itself has several issues, from the basic ones ( I CANT RESTART OR SHUTDOWN THE CONSOLE w/ unplugging it), no resolution settings. I have several audio lag issues when the console is left on for days. So even for media, i can't have XBMC running 100% there.I do have a Samsung Beam (very slow 1.0 dual core) with buggy OS and i have hours and hours of projecting XBMC media without ANY issues.
The support is next to nothing. I've installed the latest update from MadCatz, i was so happy with more google play support etc.. Turns out when i didn't want to create a OUYA account, now i have OUYA Framework crashing every 5 minutes. Just perfect.
The other main selling point was the gamepad, a solid, well construct Controller, with amazing gaming tecnology from madcatz.
Well, beside the construction, there's nothing else good about the gamepad. I have a bunch of tablets and phones, i have a really hard time connecting and staying connected with my Android 4.4.2 devices. I'm constantly losing my Connection with the gamepad, and the REconnection is just painfull, i have to restart the gameopad a few times before i can get it to work again.
Also most of the games with gamepad support doesn't recognize the CTRLR.. WTF, MadCatz team, even the simple part of getting in touch with game developers, didn't do their homework.
Mad Catz could however, try to compensate somehow, and make a decent Gamepad Mapper. Nothing on this been release, has been months.
If this was a review of the product i would give it 2/10. And the 2 is for the choice of using Nvidia's tegra 4, and thats the only good thing about this.
The lack of support of XDA's developers, given the potential of the device shown by nvidia's shield portable, is insane.
I no longer brag about this with my friends, i'm just ashamed and deceived to have spent 250 bucks on this. I'm buying Nvidia's shield tablet and try to forget Madcatz and my 250$
Thanks MadCatz.
Wish I could have disagreed with at least one of the points you raised but I can't. 2 out of 10/that's quite generous mad cats well an truely ****ed this one up and don't appear to give a flying %uck. As you pointed out endless potential totally wasted. If anyone from madcatz ever reads these kinda posts get in touch with cyanogenmod or any of the renound teams who know what their doing and give them the contract to build the software rather than wherever cowboys currently produce ur shabby android builds cause their update supports abismal what ever u payed em its way to much
I completely agree with the OP, I purchased two Madcatz Mojos when the only other box was an Ouya. I was drooling over the potential of the Tegra 4 processor. The biggest issue with this box is its software, even though it was promised we still don’t have 4.4 and for such powerful chip it doesn’t support DTS or Dolby Digital bypass. Like most of you I got sick of waiting and have purchased an Amazon Fire TV instead, I sold one of my madcatz mojo for $160 on craigslist and used that money in addition with the money from selling my nexus 7 to purchase an nvidia shield tablet. Now that’s a company that did it right. I am going to selling my last Madcatz Mojo by the end of this month once I finish some testing with my 4k TV.
Well guys you beat me to it, I thought it was about time to join & post my feelings on the MOJO I purchased in December upon UK release but OP has written an almost identical post to what I drafted. Mad Catz could have done so much with the console which offered so much potential but lack of support has killed it before its even got started.
I feel it wouldn't be so bad if we were all kept in the loop on progress to bring us a new OS, further Play Store compatibility, gamepad mapping etc, but not a word!
I have tried to convince myself the £220 purchase was worth it, but its very hard to justify it when you look at the Shield & the Shield tablet, my Ouya is used everyday & the MOJO sits gathering dust without the power cord connected!
I beg the Mad Catz team to read these posts & at least come back to us with something, I know they do come on here so use your voice guys & throw us something.
At present I'm sure they are sat laughing that they have our money so why should they care? Well this forum ranks high on Google & must be hurting potential sales & I certainly won't buy or recommend another Mad Catz product & thats from a household which owns every major console released & has a competition PC gamer living it.
Thanks Mad Catz
I'll add my voice to the chorus, since it looks like this thread has the potential to become one of the longest ones in the Mad Catz forum.
I was new to Android but after having a great experience customizing a Nexus phone (thanks to the XDA community!) I fell for the hype and bought a M.O.J.O once root became available. Was ok with the limited number of games because Mad Catz said they were working with developers blah, blah, blah The games that work, are interesting and don't require key mapping are very few. I think I have 3 installed and don't remember the last time I played one.
It's still attached to the tv, for Netflix, but with a different input device. For those of you outside the US, after installing Set DNS and using some of its default settings I can access US Netflix so that's a plus. It's good for roms too.
This device had so much potential but the company looks like it doesn't have a clue. What's worse is that they flat out lied to customers about the Kit Kat update. From day one they said that "they were working on it, it was coming soon. it was with Google waiting for approval, etc. etc." and those were all total lies. I can't give any more of my money to a company that treats its customers like that. The sad part is that they could have easily found someone to outsource the Kit Kat work to right here on XDA, but even their employees joined this community after the product was launched.
I encourage others to add their thoughts to this thread.
FBRkr1s said:
Well guys you beat me to it, I thought it was about time to join & post my feelings on the MOJO I purchased in December upon UK release but OP has written an almost identical post to what I drafted. Mad Catz could have done so much with the console which offered so much potential but lack of support has killed it before its even got started.
I feel it wouldn't be so bad if we were all kept in the loop on progress to bring us a new OS, further Play Store compatibility, gamepad mapping etc, but not a word!
I have tried to convince myself the £220 purchase was worth it, but its very hard to justify it when you look at the Shield & the Shield tablet, my Ouya is used everyday & the MOJO sits gathering dust without the power cord connected!
I beg the Mad Catz team to read these posts & at least come back to us with something, I know they do come on here so use your voice guys & throw us something.
At present I'm sure they are sat laughing that they have our money so why should they care? Well this forum ranks high on Google & must be hurting potential sales & I certainly won't buy or recommend another Mad Catz product & thats from a household which owns every major console released & has a competition PC gamer living it.
Thanks Mad Catz
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Click to collapse
The reason they don't answer this kind of posts, and the reason you don't get any feedback on the work being done by Madcatz on MOJO, it's because you wont like those answers. The few units sold probably just made them stop working on this.
Again, as a developer, i think i'de get fired if i delivered such a final product or software. Just amateur.
Anyone thinking about buying this, just dont, anyone who already bought it just say Thank's madcatz and cry a tear for their hard work.
joaommsousa said:
The reason they don't answer this kind of posts, and the reason you don't get any feedback on the work being done by Madcatz on MOJO, it's because you wont like those answers. The few units sold probably just made them stop working on this.
Again, as a developer, i think i'de get fired if i delivered such a final product or software. Just amateur.
Anyone thinking about buying this, just dont, anyone who already bought it just say Thank's madcatz and cry a tear for their hard work.
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Click to collapse
You beat me to it again OP, however I would like to hear from MC themselves & have just invited Alex Verrey from MadCatz to join this thread with the following:
Dear Mr. Verry,
I do hope I find you in good health & apologise for this unconventional communication regarding a MadCatz product.
I am a supporter of MadCatz products & purchased the M.O.J.O in late 2013, a product which you handled the P.R for to great effect.
However myself & others have become disillusioned with Madcatz by the serious omissions in support & features this product needs & as such would like to invite yourself or any other MadCatz employee to join the recent topic on the XDA Developers Forum:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/mad-catz-mojo/general/im-t2852370
I think if you find the time to read through the aforementioned thread I need say little more & thank you in advance for any assistance you may offer to myself & the M.O.J.O community.
I agree the software support side of the mojo is disappointing, that's not to say it's not there at all.
It's hasn't even been a month since the last update! ie 4K TV, better google play & BT support.
Yes, it's two steps forward, one step back (now root doesn't fix google play), but Madcatz is a hardware company and still new to android and SW.. so I guess its to be expected... hmm.. but a year on and it's still the same :/
And going by the reactions here, to their detriment.. SW does need more support then HW and a OS needs a bit more..
The kernel code suggests that they don't have a dedicated Android person internally, which I think is a really huge mistake!
Android can be a great computer appliance when finished 100% and never changed, in MOJO's case, knowing it wasn't going to be finished 100% from the start, more attention should have been made.
One extra internal salary/contract and all this could have been avoided and our forums would have been like the shield's.. definitely underestimated Android! and in hindsight maybe a learning opportunity for them?
Yip, It's frustrating, to still have the dongle on USB3, not to mention no kitkat.
But, the mojo is still one the better android TV box HW wise out there and still relevant... I'm optimistic kitkat will come, hopefully sooner then later.
I think the potential is still there and it's the center piece of their gamesmart range which is still increasing, the StrikeM only released last week.
So they're not going to abandon it and I think there's still more support/improvements coming for it!
I'm guessing it's a balancing act with limited resources and growing the company in a competitive industry, so we'll see where it goes :/
I don't expect a reply here from Alex, @Mad Catz Rich etc, but I know they do read this.
I have received a reply from Alex Verrey & although it does not address our needs as such I am most appreciative of having got a response & now await for other Mad Catz employees to jump on here, the email reads as follows:
Thanks for the email. No need to apologise for reaching out, it’s good to hear from you, and if any forum members are feeling let down by Mad Catz, we certainly want to hear about it.
We have several Mad Catz staff members who already actively participate on the forums. All of these guys are probably better positioned than I to provide the answers you are looking for. I know M.O.J.O. well, but the guys in question are the lead product managers and marketers of M.O.J.O. and will be able to go into great detail for you and any others looking for assistance.
Apologies if I sound patronising, but were you aware that we have recently launched a new and free Firmware update for M.O.J.O.? The new update introduces nearly full Google Play accessibility without the need to root. In addition, the update introduces 4K (UHD) output compatibility and brings the entire catalogue of OUYA games to M.O.J.O. We have also been working with our friends at OnLive to introduce perfect compatibility with their cloud based gaming network.
We continue to work with developers and publishers to ensure full compatibility for major titles as well. Sadly, it is true that not every Android title available today is fully compatible with M.O.J.O. and our C.T.R.L.R but we’re sure working on it!
I’ll leave it to the other guys to jump on the thread and assist where possible. In the meantime, thanks for reaching out, we sincerely do care to hear your feedback and will strive to communicate more regularly in the future.
Regards
ALEX VERREY
I might be being really dumb, but is this referring to the MO0205-TS Firmware. Because for me this update did increase the controller support granted, however I don't really care to much about that a ps3 and Xbox controller has worked fine for me since 2009 and the Wii classic controller before that on android devices. The ctrlr controller support is a bonus but could live with out at this point as the OS needs to be much higher on the priority's list.
It did the total opposite of increasing compatibility to my google play account, I had quite a large selection of games and apps before, but after updating basically all the games and apps I played/used where no longer compatible. And even on apps I don't use or want, when looking through the play store I never used to see incompatible that much now, now its plastered all over it.
My main main issues are :
1: It freezes and crashes a lot, which creates other issues.
2: one of these my micro SD must have been formatted at least 30 times now and I can't be arsed using it n e more board of transferring data to it. (A 32 or 64gb mmc this can be time consuming) seems to occurs when the mojo crashes or is unplugged from the wall on my mojo.
3: Has not happened any where near as much maybe only a hand full of times but I've had multiple hard drives wiped (luckily i have back ups of everything,) and again when were talking close to full 1tb drives its frustrating and time consuming to transfer the data back.
4: seems a kick in the balls that their are the nvidia only games such as half life and portal. Which are not available on the mojo which ticks all the boxes for compatibility.
5: NO RECOVERY MENU ACCESS: seriously we can't back up our systems In case something goes drasiticly wrong, which with android is a serious possibility.
6: The mojo went to market mid December 2013 and I could be wrong has had only 3 maybe 4 updates which have only addressed minor issues. And don't say itl shortly receive a kitkat 4.4 update before you release to market then 9 MONTHS later still not out, doesn't fill me with confidence at all.
I Don't get why dev teams like cyanogen, kindroid, crash, omni, jackyaway and countless other on XDA I am not going to list are able to produce nightly updates for multiple android builds across multiple devices and tablets, including multiple custom tweeks and optimisations.
I assume you have employed a professional development team. The teams I listed above will have provided its users with more updates in 3/5 days than your professional team has provided us in 9 months of suffering through a devise which by no way feels like the competed article that's the gripe and what's grinding your current owners patience out.
7: Compatibility issues talked about above
8: Because of the issues with the SD card and HDD formatting its impossible to fit all the games u wish to use on the console. With some games and apps now in the couple of gig region even if full compatibility is unlocked i could not set up the console exactly how I would like with a lot missing.
Alot of the issues listed above should have been addressed along time ago
Hello All,
M.O.J.O. is a new and innovative product but for the most part the issues aren’t related to the hardware. C.T.R.L.R support in Android apps is new and it’s taken some time for developers to update their manifests to get device support for M.O.J.O. Anybody that’s using M.O.J.O. and doing regular firmware updates will attest that, while it’s not perfect, the universe of apps and games available today is pretty cool and getting better all the time. Of course, there are many other micro-consoles that are now available and may be simpler to use, but we’re not aware of one that has the depth of assortment and quality of games and apps that M.O.J.O. has today and we’re committed to continuing to expand the selection and improve the experience.
The evolving nature of the Android app universe means that compatibility has been a moving target but we are fully committed to universal app compatibility and developers want their apps on as many supporting devices as possible. We are continuously working with developers to implement Google’s directive to support game controllers in games (http://developer.android.com/training/game-controllers/controller-input.html ). Please let us know when you come across an app that has a problem and we'll get in touch with the developer. Please feel free to contact the developer directly as well.
The "not compatible" message is a result of the hardware support filtering in the Google Play Store and can be impacted by options selected by the developer when posting the app manifest to the store. Typically, it’s not because M.O.J.O. can’t run the app. For example, we recently had an issue with one game that was rendered incompatible for a few days due to an update that had removed M.O.J.O. from their “white list” of supported devices by mistake. Fortunately, that was a quick and easy fix. The latest firmware update for M.O.J.O. gets access to a lot more content than previous unrooted releases, although we still find some apps with options selected in their manifest that prevent them from being accessible even though it would play fine on M.O.J.O. otherwise. Again, as with controller support, let us and the developer know and we’ll chase it up for you. Positively, there’s little doubt that the vast majority of popular apps and games are now available.
In addition, we have a lot of content for gamers not widely supported on other devices. OUYA is now available on M.O.J.O. giving access to hundreds of games configured specifically for compatibility with our C.T.R.L.R. More and more games are being added as OUYA works through their library of now over 900 games. We've also partnered with OnLive and their game-streaming service giving access to their PlayPack library and CloudLift-enabled titles from your Steam account with over 250 PC games from triple-A publishers playable on M.O.J.O. and with our C.T.R.L.R. These apps are not supported on many other devices today.
For resolution settings, we offer 720p, 1080p, and 4K support, as mandated by Google for GMS-certified TV devices.
DTS pass-through is unfortunately not supported but M.O.J.O. has full support for Dolby Digital pass-through. Some of the issues people are facing are app issues. For example, pass-through functionality is broken in the Android version of XBMC but other media players such as MX Player support it just fine.
Mad Catz Nate said:
Hello All,
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Click to collapse
Hey Nate, there running theme of the thread seems to be Android.. in particular kitkat and lack of a dev community for modding.
Personally, I'm not pushing for kitkat it will come when it comes... but any chance you can get someone that knows android to answer @shabbypenguin questions , repack problem? and ADB over USB/ETH0.
Running out of ideas and steam... help would be greatly appreciated.
From http://madcatz.com/mojo/en-ca/
Ready to Root
As any Android power-user knows, the best way to get the most out of your device is to root it. Root access opens up all sorts of options including adding custom keymapping capabilities and installing custom ROMs. Mad Catz provides a short step-by-step guide to rooting, and our tech support team is ready to help.
The best part – rooting won’t void your warranty.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
gwaldo said:
Running out of ideas and steam... help would be greatly appreciated.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It would take 2 minutes to post a little update, even something like: "Sorry, I don't have that answer and the guy that does is out on holiday or on the road, blah, blah, blah" and you (we) don't get even that. I suppose that's an answer right there.
You're responsible for probably 25% of the user generated M.O.J.O. content that's on the Internet, and this is how they value your questions. :crying: Me, I'm just a customer.
P901 said:
It would take 2 minutes to post a little update, even something like: "Sorry, I don't have that answer and the guy that does is out on holiday or on the road, blah, blah, blah" and you (we) don't get even that. I suppose that's an answer right there.
You're responsible for probably 25% of the user generated M.O.J.O. content that's on the Internet, and this is how they value your questions. :crying: Me, I'm just a customer.
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Click to collapse
I wouldn't say i'm 25%, i have a blog and a few videos...
Maybe the questions have to go through management's approval then to china and back... I don't know
Anyway, I got a few more ideas while waiting.
gwaldo said:
I wouldn't say i'm 25%, i have a blog and a few videos...
Maybe the questions have to go through management's approval then to china and back... I don't know
Anyway, I got a few more ideas while waiting.
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Click to collapse
Gwaldo, I think you are the kindest guy on the internet, or at least in the top 10 :fingers-crossed:
p.s. have a look, your content accounts for about 30% of what is out there!
gwaldo said:
Maybe the questions have to go through management's approval then to china and back...
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Click to collapse
They must have a lot of layers of management to go through...
joaommsousa said:
I have MOJO for several months now, when i initially bought it, i showed it to all my friends, and bragged about the potential of this product.
After all this months, its just sad, the lack of support or competence of the manufacters to actually stand by their product.
Beeing a developer and an android enthusiast, it's just sad to see how poorly this hole process has been developed.
The console itself has several issues, the play store, for me is a huge deal breaker. You can't have a main selling point of the product (the full access to play store and tegra zone) when most of the products there, altought i can see them, are not compatible either with the console itself, or worse, the gamepad isn't recognized. Titles like Portal 2 and Half Life 2, made precisely for MOJO's hardware, and i cant play it.
You can't also ask regular users to Root their device after every update. Either support the non rooted version, or it has to be rooted by default.
I could be a regular user who just wants to play some vice city on my TV, don't know or care how to root. This isn't a developer edition!!
The OS itself has several issues, from the basic ones ( I CANT RESTART OR SHUTDOWN THE CONSOLE w/ unplugging it), no resolution settings. I have several audio lag issues when the console is left on for days. So even for media, i can't have XBMC running 100% there.I do have a Samsung Beam (very slow 1.0 dual core) with buggy OS and i have hours and hours of projecting XBMC media without ANY issues.
The support is next to nothing. I've installed the latest update from MadCatz, i was so happy with more google play support etc.. Turns out when i didn't want to create a OUYA account, now i have OUYA Framework crashing every 5 minutes. Just perfect.
The other main selling point was the gamepad, a solid, well construct Controller, with amazing gaming tecnology from madcatz.
Well, beside the construction, there's nothing else good about the gamepad. I have a bunch of tablets and phones, i have a really hard time connecting and staying connected with my Android 4.4.2 devices. I'm constantly losing my Connection with the gamepad, and the REconnection is just painfull, i have to restart the gameopad a few times before i can get it to work again.
Also most of the games with gamepad support doesn't recognize the CTRLR.. WTF, MadCatz team, even the simple part of getting in touch with game developers, didn't do their homework.
Mad Catz could however, try to compensate somehow, and make a decent Gamepad Mapper. Nothing on this been release, has been months.
If this was a review of the product i would give it 2/10. And the 2 is for the choice of using Nvidia's tegra 4, and thats the only good thing about this.
The lack of support of XDA's developers, given the potential of the device shown by nvidia's shield portable, is insane.
I no longer brag about this with my friends, i'm just ashamed and deceived to have spent 250 bucks on this. I'm buying Nvidia's shield tablet and try to forget Madcatz and my 250$
Thanks MadCatz.
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Click to collapse
I have Mojo for some months now and I'm very pleased with it.
Half-Life 2 and Portal works great on my device with some adjustments.
Yes, you can power the device off with a keyboard with shutdown button or install a widget that maps the powerbutton
and brings up the power menu. This is a proper shutdown, not like pulling the plug!
I honestly think right now the nexus player is a better deal. 10 gameloft games are being optimized for the system. Mad Catz must seriously hate their system because they don't update the product. Plus it's still $199 and the amount of problems you're having, makes no sense.
disorder78 said:
I honestly think right now the nexus player is a better deal. 10 gameloft games are being optimized for the system. Mad Catz must seriously hate their system because they don't update the product. Plus it's still $199 and the amount of problems you're having, makes no sense.
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Anyone who bought this crap and wants the real stuff ou is crazy enought to be considering buying it, i seriously recommend Nvidia's Shield Tablet. More expensive than nexus player, but gets the job well done on every end ( Entertainment, gaming, PC gaming, Console / Tablet mode )
Nvidia actually supports their products, just announced Lollipop for the tablet by the end of november.
kaiserclaw said:
I have Mojo for some months now and I'm very pleased with it.
Half-Life 2 and Portal works great on my device with some adjustments.
Yes, you can power the device off with a keyboard with shutdown button or install a widget that maps the powerbutton
and brings up the power menu. This is a proper shutdown, not like pulling the plug!
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Click to collapse
Half-Life 2 and Portal wow!
Does it play well with the CTRLR?
I would buy both for my mojo if I knew how to get it working... could you please give us a clue how you got it work?