Related
http://www.tgdaily.com/mobility-features/54903-is-motorola-getting-ready-to-ditch-android
The article makes several key points:
"Android isn't turning out to be profitable for any company other than Google and even Google's numbers look less than reliable. There are 37 lawsuits on this platform since the beginning of 2010 many filed against companies like Motorola and complaints from the OEM on Google's responsiveness to their concerns are both common and strident," he explained.
"They are not happy and a review of all of this is what pushed HP to buy Palm and avoid Android all together
You have to consider why a company like Motorola would chose to support, or not support an OS - things may not be all that rosy for Google Experience Devices, in fact it sounds like companies like Motorola may actually resent Googles interference, and what they percieve as an inequitable distribution of profit (into Googles Pocket) on these devices.
Developing an operating system isn't something a company "just decides" to do. It takes years, then you have to get the hardware vendors to make systems for it, and the software guys to make software for it. HP already have an OS in WebOS; ditto RIM. Are they swimming in dev love right now?
>"Android isn't turning out to be profitable for any company other than Google"
Moto was near death after the Razr petered out, and was resuscitated back to life with the Droid series. Last I looked, its financials look a lot better than it was before its Android push. Ditto for HTC, which is now riding on a wave of cash. You can check on others.
Every for-profit company in the world is doing things to make...a profit. If it's not profitable, nobody would do it. Now, look at the rate of Android adoption for smartphones. Think all of those vendors are looking to lose money?
The trouble with holding Internet pundits as gospel is that they, like any for-profit entity, don't necessarily care about the facts as they do about sensationalizing them, even to the extent of spouting fibs. The more attention a blog post gets, the more hits, and the more ad revenue. Sad as it is to say, but truth and facts can be boring, and embellishment sells.
I think its all in the informations source. Wasn't there an article a month or two back that essentially discussed exactly how profitable Android is? Essentially calling it Google's most profitable venture ever for both themselves and their partners.
I think the proof is in handset shipments and growth. What is HTC's shipment growth over the past 2 years? Something in the neighborhood of 200%? and their projection is for a 300% increase over that this year? Those handset sales are driven primarily by Android. If they aren't making a profit on those handsets then they would have been unprofitable no matter what, because their prices wouldn't have changed. Whether it be Windows Mobile,Android or Brand Z their new handset is still going to be in the neighborhood of 599-650, so its their responsibility to make sure that price point is profitable for them. I don't see them being able to complain about slow growth since the sales growth and acceptance for the Android platform is pretty much meteoric.
I hardly see Motorola complaining about Android considering it and Verizon essentially saved them from becoming the next Nokia, a brand no one in America cares about. Are they hedging their bets? Possibly. Abandoning Android right now or in the foreseeable future though? I would say absolutely not.
Without Android, its pretty easy to say that Motorola and HTC would be in far worse financial shape than increasing their shipments and profits every quarter than they currently are. (Samsung not so much, they could have continued to be the OEM supplier for screens to HTC/Other brands who want to make phones) But in fact it was so profitable it encouraged Samsung to jump into the market themselves instead of just supplying parts. It gave those companies an instant way to compete with iOS.
Motorola announced today it sold 8.3 million handsets in the second quarter, earning the Mobile Devices division $1.7 billion in sales, and returning the unit to profitability after several quarters of losses. Over 2.7 million smartphones were part of Motorola’s overall handset sales, showing the vast growth in this segment, as the company reported zero smartphone sales in the same quarter in 2009. Although Motorola quarterly results don’t specifically name the biggest catalyst for such a change, it can be summarized in one word: Android.
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Thats from July of 2010. So from losses to profit, I can hardly see how that "wouldn't be turning out profitable" for them.
e.mote said:
Developing an operating system isn't something a company "just decides" to do. It takes years, then you have to get the hardware vendors to make systems for it, and the software guys to make software for it. HP already have an OS in WebOS; ditto RIM. Are they swimming in dev love right now?
>"Android isn't turning out to be profitable for any company other than Google"
Moto was near death after the Razr petered out, and was resuscitated back to life with the Droid series. Last I looked, its financials look a lot better than it was before its Android push. Ditto for HTC, which is now riding on a wave of cash. You can check on others.
Every for-profit company in the world is doing things to make...a profit. If it's not profitable, nobody would do it. Now, look at the rate of Android adoption for smartphones. Think all of those vendors are looking to lose money?
The trouble with holding Internet pundits as gospel is that they, like any for-profit entity, don't necessarily care about the facts as they do about sensationalizing them, even to the extent of spouting fibs. The more attention a blog post gets, the more hits, and the more ad revenue. Sad as it is to say, but truth and facts can be boring, and embellishment sells.
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You both make good points.
Thats when these boards work best. When people actually think through all the facets of a topic and don't just devolve into an Apple good/Android Bad rant.
However, in response to the comment: "Developing an operating system isn't something a company "just decides" to do. "
Certainly it is,
ANDROID is an operating system developed by a company called Google, that just "decided" to create an OS to compete with Apple.
That in turn was developed from an OS called Linux developed by Torvalds as an open source alternative to Windows.
Or take Windows Phone 7 - A company called Microsoft "Just decided to develop" and OS from the ground up to compete with Apple.
Problem isn't developing an OS, problem is marketing it and developing Apps.
Edit: I agree with you that that this is virtually impossible for Motorola. But I would have thought it impossible for HP too and yet, they had the creative insight to buy palm, and now they are doing it. Probably will crash and burn, but bottom line is: They DID abandon android.
Digital Man said:
ANDROID is an operating system developed by a company called Google, that just "decided" to create an OS to compete with Apple.
Or take Windows Phone 7 - A company called Microsoft "Just decided to develop" and OS from the ground up to compete with Apple.
Problem isn't developing an OS, problem is marketing it and developing Apps.
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I hope you understand that there difference between software companies deciding to make software and hardware companies deciding to make software.
Microsoft and Google already had experience and infrastructure in place to create new software. Motorola will be starting with...nothing. That is why Palm was purchased by HP, they needed a leg up on software experience to make new software development practical.
_RTFM_ said:
I hope you understand that there difference between software companies deciding to make software and hardware companies deciding to make software.
Microsoft and Google already had experience and infrastructure in place to create new software. Motorola will be starting with...nothing. That is why Palm was purchased by HP, they needed a leg up on software experience to make new software development practical.
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Knew that one was coming. Thats why companies hire employess. Thats why companies buy other companies.
Thats why companies like HP which are HARDWARE companies buy companies like Palm which are SOFTWARE companies. Whatever it takes to get the job done.
Programmers are people, they can walk from software companies over to the building where the hardware company is located and start working there, on a shiny new OS as soon as they are hired or aquired.
Edit: Might I also point out that Google started as a search engine, not a software company either.
Digital Man said:
Knew that one was coming. Thats why companies hire employess. Thats why companies buy other companies.
Thats why companies like HP which are HARDWARE companies buy companies like Palm which are SOFTWARE companies. Whatever it takes to get the job done.
Programmers are people, they can walk from software companies over to the building where the hardware company is located and start working there, on a shiny new OS as soon as they are hired or aquired.
Edit: Might I also point out that Google started as a search engine, not a software company either.
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...ok, but in order for them to walk over there they need to be PAID, and an entire new wing of R&D needs to be built to support them. This is a massive investment that is VERY high risk that takes a long time.
Oh you're right, I had no clue Google started as a search engine. That means they are and have always been a software company. Just because "engine" is in the phrase doesn't mean it isn't software
_RTFM_ said:
...ok, but in order for them to walk over there they need to be PAID, and an entire new wing of R&D needs to be built to support them. This is a massive investment that is VERY high risk that takes a long time.
Oh you're right, I had no clue Google started as a search engine. That means they are and have always been a software company. Just because "engine" is in the phrase doesn't mean it isn't software
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Sarcasm aside, no, I'm still not sure a search engine is the same as a hardware operating system....
Her is a good article supporting the alternative point of view however:
Moto ditching Android: Silly Rumor
http://androidcommunity.com/motorola-developing-own-os-silly-rumor-20110325/
Note this line: Motorola is working on their own OS? What? Back that up. Several blogs are putting forth the rumor that Motorola’s friendship with Google is waning and that the cellphone manufacturer has been quietly hiring Apple and Adobe engineers with the aim of developing their own platform OS to compete with Android.
Note the part about quietly hiring from Apple and Adobe.
I honestly don't have a strong opinion one way or the other here. I am primarily playing Devils Advocate by throwing the orignal topic out here for discussion, as it is something that people have been talking about quite a bit on Motorola hardware boards.
I was curious to see other peoples points of view on the story-rumor.
Here is an interesting article about why Google might not care if Android ever makes money.
Android May Be the Greatest Legal Destruction of Wealth in History [Android]
TOP STORIES IN TECHNOLOGY | MARCH 25, 2011
http://gizmodo.com/#!5785983/android-may-be-the-greatest-legal-destruction-of-wealth-in-history
tinpusher said:
Here is an interesting article about why Google might not care if Android ever makes money.
Android May Be the Greatest Legal Destruction of Wealth in History [Android]
TOP STORIES IN TECHNOLOGY | MARCH 25, 2011
http://gizmodo.com/#!5785983/android-may-be-the-greatest-legal-destruction-of-wealth-in-history
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Thanks for posting this.
I have to laugh. I started this thread, and in effect was accused of being a conspiracy theorist wearing a tin-foil hat. So it makes me feel better knowing that the guys over at Gizmodo have some pretty shiny head-gear as well.
If Motorola leaves the Android community they would be shooting themselves in the foot. I really have a hard time believing Moto would be that stupid.
Where were they before Android? On the brink of death. Leaving now is suicide. Companies really need to stop thinking they are Apple. Apple is the exception to that proves rule.
If they took all the money they put into this rumored OS and sunk it into a better blur (or option to disable blur), better hardware, and FAST updates... they would rule the market.
th0r615 said:
If Motorola leaves the Android community they would be shooting themselves in the foot. I really have a hard time believing Moto would be that stupid.
Where were they before Android? On the brink of death. Leaving now is suicide. Companies really need to stop thinking they are Apple. Apple is the exception to that proves rule.
If they took all the money they put into this rumored OS and sunk it into a better blur (or option to disable blur), better hardware, and FAST updates... they would rule the market.
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Oh hell, some companies like Microsoft shoot themselves in the foot on an almost daily basis. Remember the Kin phone? Here is a quote from an article by Engadget:
"While it's hard to argue that Kin is an awful product, the saddest part of the story is that many of the people responsible for it knew it was -- they were largely victims of political circumstance, forced to release a phone that was practically raw in the middle."
In the end they sold something like 500 of the things.
Remember the Dell streak releasing crippled with Android 1.6?
And then there was windows Vista....
Companies often do things that seem to make no rational business sense.
It would be crazy for them to abandon the platform that single handedly prevented them from going into bankruptcy... Motorola was doing horrible before they teamed up with Verizon and released the Droid OG. Which was an insanely popular device. Motorola should be thanking Verizon and Google for still having jobs right now...
They would be crazy to stop embracing android. Not only is it generating business like crazy (everyone has seen or heard of the enormous numbers of android products being sold, numbers that are unseating the existing leaders of the mobile os market), all indications are that android is still growing. Why abandon success?
Sent from my DROIDX using XDA App
Actually it's as simple as this.. Would you abandon an OS that has the second largest apps for mobile? It would be dumb for any company to do such a thing.. I mean think about it.. What other choices do you have?? WM7, RIM, Palm etc?? It would take years for them to catch up, apps wise.. Right now, what makes these phone manufacturer tick, is the apps behind it.. Hence, that's the reason why I chose Android when I left iphone.. The apps.. So I don't think Motorola would abandon Android and jump ship anytime soon.. Or at all, for that matter..
Yeah I agree. I don't see this happening anytime soon, if at all. Especially looking within a few years down the road.
Motorola should just concentrate on making better quality hardware and leave th software to people who know what they are doing. Motorola use to mean quality, now it's just another phone maker in a sea of the same devices running the same software with nothing really revolutionary to offer buyers. If moto could make an android device with the quality of their razor they would destroy the competition.
The rumor that Moto is hiring software egr's has a glimmer of truth (and subsequently embellished for tabloid consumption). Moto is learning that there is a downside to the Android gravy train, which every co and its sister is jumping onto, and that is lack of differentiation.
Co's are trying different things. Asus is doing the integrated keyboard with the Transformer. HTC has the active digitizer where you can use a stylus. Archos is leaning on its PMP roots with strong multimedia support. But for the majority, differentiation will be minimal (mostly a custom GUI). The main determinant will be price. In other words, Android tabs will be commodity status very soon. This is good for the consumers, but not for the vendors.
This isn't the smartphone market any more, where supply is constrained by the carriers playing as gatekeepers. Price competition will be intense, and slapping on a custom GUI (as has been the practice for smartphones) will no longer be enough. Premium brands in smartphones do not automatically translate to the tablet market.
It'll be a free-for-all. And the guys that win will be those with the best value-add, brand strength, and distribution muscle. For the first, you need software peeps. Which is why Moto is stocking up.
Digital Man said:
Might I also point out that Google started as a search engine, not a software company either.
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This sentence does not make any sense
hi_its_ryan said:
This sentence does not make any sense
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Just saying that something doesn't make sense isn't very helpful. Try explaining WHY it doesn't make sense.
That would add something to the discussion.
http://investor.google.com/releases/2011/0815.html
Game changer? Thoughts as to what it means for us xoomers?
I was coming to post this as well.. Friggin sweet... The true Google device..
dubsjw27 said:
http://investor.google.com/releases/2011/0815.html
Game changer? Thoughts as to what it means for us xoomers?
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Wow. This one is being reported all across the interwebs at the moment.
First of all if I were HTC and Samsung I would be LIVID right now. Both companies have stacked a lot of chips on Android and may now be seeing that as not as sure a bet as they thought. It would make sense for Google to now keep its flagship devices "in house" and have them made by Moto Mobile. This is going to freeze both companies out of the plum position of producing the concept devices for each new version of Android.
What does this foretell for the future? First of all I would not be surprised to see both HTC and Samsung trying to repair connections with Microsoft, and looking again at making a larger commitment to Windows Phone 7.
For we Xoom users, it heavily improves the odds of us seeing an official ICS release by the end of the year. That was already likely since the Xoom was being used to demo the software, but now will be even more so.
Interesting days ahead.
It gives me a little more confidence that the xoom won't be left behind as quickly as we all thought it would be.
Great move for all Android partners
If anything, this protects HTC and Samsung's Android business from patents claims against them. Google will use it's new patent muscle as a deterrent. Google stated Motorola will be a licensee just like the others. I'm sure all new GED's will be Moto but I doubt the influence will extend much beyond that.
Well, I want this:
Motorola has a lot of patents on mobile / smartphone technology.
So, I want Google to use those patents to protect Android!
I don't know how ... but I dreamed this to shut up that Apple patent troll.
Probably, Google intention was mainly for Motorola patents.
linuxdood said:
If anything, this protects HTC and Samsung's Android business from patents claims against them. Google will use it's new patent muscle as a deterrent. Google stated Motorola will be a licensee just like the others. I'm sure all new GED's will be Moto but I doubt the influence will extend much beyond that.
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I agree that this is a good move in the long-term for Android as a platform...but I think you underestimate the influence that being the sole source of GEDs will give Moto. They will be the glass of fashion.
Google will continue to provide the software to all it's partners, sure...but I think we are coming up very swiftly on a new synthesis of hardware and software...basically the Apple model accepted as the norm. Apple vs Google/Moto vs Microsoft/Nokia.
My question now is...who buys RIM. My guess is Microsoft.
Well, my day just got better.
Google has been outspoken about unlockable bootloaders. Could this mean all upcoming Google/Motorola devices will be fully unlockable?
Moto blur is now officially killed
How sweet ...
UPDATE:
So, the purchase is to defend Android ...
Update: More quotes from Android partners after the break.
Peter Chou, CEO, HTC:
We welcome the news of today's acquisition, which demonstrates that Google is deeply committed to defending Android, its partners, and the entire ecosystem.
Bert Nordberg, President & CEO, Sony Ericsson:
I welcome Google's commitment to defending Android and its partners.
Jong-Seok Park, President & CEO, LG:
We welcome Google's commitment to defending Android and its partners.
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Maybe they will purchase htc, samsung, etc.....
I expect this kind of news in the future:
GOOGLE is suing Apple for some (Motorola) patents infringement.
Then in negotiation:
Apple: So, what's now? How do we settle?
Google: Easy, drop all your lousy law suits on Android manufacturers
That would be epic!
armychris28210 said:
Maybe they will purchase htc, samsung, etc.....
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Yes! And then they will concentrate on one phone, to make it perfect with all their new know how. To enhance the security they get rid of the open source ****, and make it perfectly usable and easy by integrating it to Google Music as the only way to put music on the device. It will be called the GPhone and it will...ohhh...wait...
gogol said:
UPDATE:
So, the purchase is to defend Android ...
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Well it certainly is, at least partially. Patents are the big deal these days.
However, as for the parts of the deal that are about getting an in house hardware maker being downplayed...what else are the brass of HTC, Sony Ericsson and LG going to say?
It reminds me of the losers on The Bachelor "He totally like made the right choice...I really think this is for the best and hope they will be very happy...."
We will see how they really feel if the announcements of additional WM7 phones start picking up speed.
>First of all if I were HTC and Samsung I would be LIVID right now.
Co-opetition is the nature of business (and a lot of other areas). Things are always more complicated than the black-or-white, friend-or-foe picture people try to paint. MS is in with Nokia, but other co's are still making WP7 phones. It all depends on what makes sense (read: profit).
That the deal happens is not because of Moto Mobo's hardware capability, but for its patent portfolio.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424053111903392904576509953821437960.html
>It would make sense for Google to now keep its flagship devices "in house" and have them made by Moto Mobile.
No, it doesn't. That would go against everything that it has built Android to be, which is an "open", device- (and vendor-) agnostic OS. If it wants to destroy Android, that would be the surest way to go about it.
>For we Xoom users, it heavily improves the odds of us seeing an official ICS release by the end of the year.
I don't see it changes the picture any wrt the Xoom. As a GED device (for US model), the odds were always in favor of Xoom getting official ICS--and for most Teg2 tabs from major vendors, for that matter.
The acquisition will take place over some months, long after the Xoom has come and gone. I don't see Moto getting any "nicer" with supporting the Xoom just because it will be part of Goog. The Xoom is just one of many Moto products, and its replacements are already in the pipe.
e.mote said:
No, it doesn't. That would go against everything that it has built Android to be, which is an "open", device- (and vendor-) agnostic OS. If it wants to destroy Android, that would be the surest way to go about it.
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That is not completely accurate. Google has always selected one vendor for each version to develop the flagship GED device. The vendors have competed heavily to get those contracts since they involved a lot of interaction with the software design team and a leg up on smooth integration.
Now, it will make sense for Moto to have those prototype devices, as it means that Google will be able to control the process even further.
Android is vendor-agnostic, but each version has always had one vendor who was first amongst equals...and that will now be Moto.
RonnieFoxxx said:
Google has been outspoken about unlockable bootloaders. Could this mean all upcoming Google/Motorola devices will be fully unlockable?
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Unlocked, not unlockable!
>Now, it will make sense for Moto to have those prototype devices, as it means that Google will be able to control the process even further.
I don't see this as a big deal. Having the Xoom released first didn't help Moto any wrt to sales, nor was having a GED a benefit to the user experience. Xoom users do get updates a bit faster, but other devices have value-added functionality (eg SD card, Splashtop, etc) that the Xoom lacks, OOB.
As far as "controlling the experience," that remains to be seen. It's hard to say with this 1st-gen as a gauge, as HC has been an ongoing beta for ICS. We'll have to see what Goog will do with its newly acquired hardware arm. I think it should be emphasized that the acquisition is more to shore up its patent stash than to "control the Android experience." Goog's failed 6.5B attempt to acquire Nortel's patents is indicative of its need in this area.
rschenck said:
Wow. This one is being reported all across the interwebs at the moment.
First of all if I were HTC and Samsung I would be LIVID right now. Both companies have stacked a lot of chips on Android and may now be seeing that as not as sure a bet as they thought. It would make sense for Google to now keep its flagship devices "in house" and have them made by Moto Mobile. This is going to freeze both companies out of the plum position of producing the concept devices for each new version of Android.
What does this foretell for the future? First of all I would not be surprised to see both HTC and Samsung trying to repair connections with Microsoft, and looking again at making a larger commitment to Windows Phone 7.
For we Xoom users, it heavily improves the odds of us seeing an official ICS release by the end of the year. That was already likely since the Xoom was being used to demo the software, but now will be even more so.
Interesting days ahead.
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Don't be silly, android is an open source project device manufacturers will still be able to put their customizations out and will still be shipping phones with old versions of android. This deal will have no impact on android device manufacturers other then patent protection
Sent from my Xoom using Tapatalk
What it tells you when a company currently reshaping the market with their Android platform start cutting R&D costs, globally, from the company [Motorola Mobility] that they have recently acquired? Actually few things.
Source to the cut costing: http://www.slashgear.com/google-motorola-cuts-costing-us-340-but-theyre-only-the-start-04250360/
- Google's Android mission is not what it makes to the naked eyes. Something I have always claimed
- Google would want to pass on major potential financial losses to the other entities
- Motorola Mobility is no longer a reliable manufacturer in which consumers would want to purchase hardware from. If targets are not met Moto stops providing support, they have already strongly demonstrated that. With the smaller budget Moto has, it puts them in more fragile position compared to the other manufacturers
- I predict Motorola Mobility "most likely" wouldn't make Android phones in five years time which is in line with the end of five years promise the Chinese government got from Google to keep Android open-source in exchange to agree to the acquisition. No one has ever questioned why a Government has to request something that allegedly free and open-source already as a bargaining chip? This is something Google doesn't want anyone [General Public] to know.
If you agree with any of the points in above then you should realise Motorola Mobility now is an unreliable company to purchase hardware from which require constant software updates i.e. Smartphones.
Well... It just looks like Google wants to annihilate Motorola. Now they got their tech, they don't care about Moto anymore. They have a partnership with Samsung for a long time now, we can't expect a Motorola-made Nexus device anymore.
CSharpHeaven said:
What it tells you when a company currently reshaping the market with their Android platform start cutting R&D costs, globally, from the company [Motorola Mobility] that they have recently acquired? Actually few things.
Source to the cut costing: http://www.slashgear.com/google-motorola-cuts-costing-us-340-but-theyre-only-the-start-04250360/
- Google's Android mission is not what it makes to the naked eyes. Something I have always claimed
You say you have always claimed this, so you must have a theory as to what they are really doing?
- Google would want to pass on major potential financial losses to the other entities
Which "other entities" are you referring to?
- Motorola Mobility is no longer a reliable manufacturer in which consumers would want to purchase hardware from. If targets are not met Moto stops providing support, they have already strongly demonstrated that. With the smaller budget Moto has, it puts them in more fragile position compared to the other manufacturers
You have no idea what Motorola Mobility's budget is, nor what the corporate strategy is as they and Google move forward.
- I predict Motorola Mobility "most likely" wouldn't make Android phones in five years time which is in line with the end of five years promise the Chinese government got from Google to keep Android open-source in exchange to agree to the acquisition. No one has ever questioned why a Government has to request something that allegedly free and open-source already as a bargaining chip? This is something Google doesn't want anyone [General Public] to know.
Your predictions are based on personal assumptions and a complete lack of knowledge regarding corporate acquisitions imo, and the resulting restructuring that occurs, and nothing to do with the article you have put up a link to. Every major organization which is bought out by another, usually bigger, organization goes through major restructuring, layoffs, plant/site closures, and ultimately alignment with the corporate strategies of the purchasing body. Customer service and support always suffers through this teething period. I predict Motorola Mobility won't even exist in 5 years, let alone design and manufacture devices. They will either be stripped and sold off, or swallowed whole and devoured by Google, but then again, my predictions are also assumptions.
If you agree with any of the points in above then you should realise Motorola Mobility now is an unreliable company to purchase hardware from which require constant software updates i.e. Smartphones.
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Cutting R&D costs doesn't necessarily mean an organization is going out of business, or stopping development. It can simply mean they have defined where Motorola was going wrong, and are adjusting for future R&D and NPI activities. If they plan on releasing only a couple of high end devices a year, why would they need a large R&D team. You keep the cream and trim the fat. Retain the achievers and get rid of the slackers.
CaelanT said:
Cutting R&D costs doesn't necessarily mean an organization is going out of business, or stopping development. It can simply mean they have defined where Motorola was going wrong, and are adjusting for future R&D and NPI activities. If they plan on releasing only a couple of high end devices a year, why would they need a large R&D team. You keep the cream and trim the fat. Retain the achievers and get rid of the slackers.
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Entities refer to those who are part of Android Alliance program for instance.
I have been writing about Android on XDA on many occasions, some were talk of tech-media months later. I have removed some content (in form of article) from XDA before in protest of a thread closure. I'm learning to move on from incidents like that now. You can search my threads from my profile.
I formed my opinion on Motorola mainly based on actual shortcomings in the past nearly two years that has nothing to do with their budgets. However, I have to remind you that Motorola had the money to give one individual person [Sanjay Jha] $66m and god knows how much collectively the executives received but Motorola, apparently, didn't have the money to hire contractors for six months to cook the ICS ROM for us. So I might don't know how much budget they have but for sure I know Motorola Mobility has no clue in "budgeting" plan.
It is well documented what Chinese government asked regarding Android remain open-source for the next five years. Google it please. Take my word for it, many things in this acquisition will remain secret anyway. Please read your own comment in the same section to see how contradictory you sounded.
I have never made a link between R&D cost cutting and Motorola Mobility being shut down. I haven't even said Motorola Mobility was going bust soon, you did.
I'm so glad Motorola split. I love Motorola hardware.
Sent from my Atrix 4g MB860 running leaked official Motorola ICS
Slymayer said:
Well... It just looks like Google wants to annihilate Motorola. Now they got their tech, they don't care about Moto anymore. They have a partnership with Samsung for a long time now, we can't expect a Motorola-made Nexus device anymore.
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I don't think many of us were expecting a Motorola nexus device.
Sent from my MB855 using xda premium
CSharpHeaven said:
Google's Android mission is not what it makes to the naked eyes. Something I have always claimed
You say you have always claimed this, so you must have a theory as to what they are really doing?
Entities refer to those who are part of Android Alliance program for instance. So please explain where you get this theory of passing on financial losses from.
I have been writing about Android on XDA on many occasions, some were talk of tech-media months later. I have removed some content (in form of article) from XDA before in protest of a thread closure. I'm learning to move on from incidents like that now. You can search my threads from my profile. I'm not protesting your thread, and it makes no difference to me how much you have written about Android. I could write about knitting all day,but that doesn't mean I know how to "stitch one".
I formed my opinion on Motorola mainly based on actual shortcomings in the past nearly two years that has nothing to do with their budgets. However, I have to remind you that Motorola had the money to give one individual person [Sanjay Jha] $66m and god knows how much collectively the executives received but Motorola, apparently, didn't have the money to hire contractors for six months to cook the ICS ROM for us. So I might don't know how much budget they have but for sure I know Motorola Mobility has no clue in "budgeting" plan. We all know corporate big wigs get massive payouts. That's a given in any large corporation. Where do you get that Motorola couldn't afford to hire contractors from? I'm betting Motorola/Google have very good experience in budgeting. Companies do not grow as big as them without strategic budgeting, and a ruthless business sense. New technology is all about time to market............beating your competitor to release. It's never been about consumers, and this has nothing to do with budgets in the sense of lack of budget, but rather huge ROIC numbers of 25+% being required by greedy shareholders who will cancel NPI projects in the blink of an eye if they do not meet target costs of 60%-62% profit margins.
It is well documented what Chinese government asked regarding Android remain open-source for the next five years. Google it please. Take my word for it, many things in this acquisition will remain secret anyway. Please read your own comment in the same section to see how contradictory you sounded. I have not argued this point with regards to the Chinese government, but rather the 5 year part. I see it that they will not exist in 5 years because if they aren't making phones they have nothing to exist for other than development, and they will be wholly integrated into Google by then. If Google doesn't want anyone to know, then how do you know?
I have never made a link between R&D cost cutting and Motorola Mobility being shut down. I haven't even said Motorola Mobility was going bust soon, you did. Seems like your whole post was pointed at budgetary cuts, R&D activity cost cutting, and Moto Mobility not making phones in 5 years. Maybe I was incorrect in reading between the lines and seeing reduced budgets, job losses, and a 5 year life span. In any event, what you said does not reflect the article you linked to other than R&D spending cuts.
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Anyway, I'm on my hols for 2 weeks after tomorrow, so I'm gonna go have a beer or three!
CaelanT said:
Anyway, I'm on my hols for 2 weeks after tomorrow, so I'm gonna go have a beer or three!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Back in March 2012 I started a thread with the following title: "Android a Fragmented, Differentiated, and Misrepresented Platform". I completed the first six parts taking me over 100 hours of work before I removed them which I have already provided the reason. I still have a copy of the original works. As you can guess by now, it would take a lot of effort just to answer your first question. I might complete the articles or use them as part of other future articles one day.
When others investing money in developing hardware for Android then Google has nothing to lose should market take a 360 degree on Android for instance.
You are assured bragging about something is not my style but I will go to the end of the world for what I believe in. Several parts of the articles actually covered the technical side of Android rather than the business model of it.
Sorry I can't make any useful comment about your fourth paragraph. I made a point and you turned into a very complicated matter in particular in the beginning of your paragraph.
I was actually being very careful to write Motorola Mobility wouldn't (most likely but not surely) make hardware such as smartphones in fives years time when it requires constant software support. The reason was Motorola Mobility develops other products such as Bluetooth headphones, TV Set Box, and etc.
It is my fault not citing from the article in the first place which was the following;
"Other impacted territories are Asia and India, with cuts in R&D spending across various locations in Chicago, Sunnyvale, and Beijing."
In my opinion the intention of Google to cut spending in R&D is far more important than what was being reported which was Google has realised even scaling down is going cost the company a fortune.
This is what wikipedia has to say about R&D
"In one model, the primary function of an R&D group is to develop new products; in the other model, the primary function of an R&D group is to discover and create new knowledge about scientific and technological topics for the purpose of uncovering and enabling development of valuable new products, processes, and services." -- Wikipedia
Even if Motorola Mobility uses both models that were described in above description one can say (as I did) Motorola Mobility or rather Google planned (might still be on) to stop or reduce developing new products or innovating new products/services/technology (second model). Obviously when R&D is scaled down then all the forces across all business processes also need to be scaled down otherwise, the business is simply will waste money.
Motorola Mobility stock share should lose values based on this report alone because clearly Motorola Mobility no longer wishes to be proactive in the very competitive market. From consumers point of view this should be a further warning that things are not promising at all.
Enjoy your long holiday and see you around on XDA soon.
I remember the article you wrote because I read it. Why you had to remove it I have no idea, and I am disappointed that you did.
<edit> Went back and looked through that thread. And here I thought I could be a royal arse at times! XDA can be a very rough place sometimes.
That being said, I manage R&D activities in a very large global company which is 85% focused on R&D and NPI, with very little manufacturing occurring other than with 3rd party vendors in low cost countries.
All arguments aside, I was pushing for an explanation of your comments which did not seem to relate much to the article you linked, or the thread title. Your last post explains your reasoning behind your comments much better.
Cheers!
Software development costs could be being cut as Google may be moving Motorola onto having a pure android experience. As Google has its own devs, why get moto to change anything?
Sent from my MB860
tomh235 said:
Software development costs could be being cut as Google may be moving Motorola onto having a pure android experience. As Google has its own devs, why get moto to change anything?
Sent from my MB860
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Thank you for your inputs. I have to disagree with your point on pure Android experience which you must meant Nexus phones. I'm glad you mentioned that since I had few things to say about it.
As it has been reported Google is expanding its Nexus program to allow multiple manufacturers to release their own Nexus version. A careful examination would reveal a brand in Android ecosystem only would be distinguishable by differentiation i.e. Home Launchers and features. Many Android users would agree that they often miss features when move on to a pure Android experience.
Now here is my take on the Nexus program. Not many people noted that the Nexus program has brought a huge financial reward to the manufacturers who participated in it by actually establishing themselves in Android market generating more revenue from selling their other product lines. Samsung is very good example, while their Nexus range did well but SGII, GNote (probably equal to GNexus), and SGIII did far better. HTC only has itself to blame for not taking advantage of the opportunity and even though the following year of their Nexus release they did well but they went down the hill by releasing handsets that were aggressively designed for profits only i.e. the Sensation range.
The same pattern can also be observed in Google Store where developers participate in Google's promotional programs where they reduce their prices for a period of time but end up with significant revenue increase and jumping ranking position in application listings.
Now that this marketing method has been proven to work with Android consumers it would be feasible for other manufacturers to join the Nexus program, at same time. I have my reservations about the impact of more than two manufacturers participating in the Nexus program.
What concerns me the most about Nexus program is its hidden agenda. For one, Google has been trying to make Cloud services as a vital entity in their mobile platform. The obsession with cloud services is a worrying factor especially when all parties (i.e., Google, Manufacturers, and Network Operators) involved wanting your data to be stored on their servers. Nexus phones share one feature in common and that is the ommission of the SD-Card port. The LG Optimus Nexus has been said not to have the SD-Card port either. Please remember, if corporates fail to predict the consumers behaviour correctly then they would attempt to introduce that behaviour to the consumers eventually.
I know Google enough (observations) to know they don't rush into things for not being noticed. While they have good alliances with their business partners but they can seek other agendas at same time. In the world of politics it is known as "Parallel Politics". Google is the most involved tech company in the world with global politic activities. I'm willing to say, their involvement is almost in the same level as the USA government in many terms.
In my opinion the lack of upgrades would be in Google's benefits since they own and run the Nexus program itself and in our case (Atrix and Proton owners) they own Motorola anyway. Motorola's Patents was a good reasoning point, for general public, to acquire Motorola but I have my feelings it was more than the patents, keeping my eyes on this anyway.
Sorry, I never meant to write this much but now that I did I would like also to expose the $100 offer program from Motorola. A publicity stunt that would look Motorola to come across considerate when it is hardly going to cost them anything in fact. Here are my reasons;
- Upset Motorola users wouldn't want anything to do with Motorola anymore therefore the $100 is worthless
- Many users have claimed they can get more money by selling their phones. The $100 offer therefore is worthless.
- Considering the above point Motorola in fact is ripping Motorola users twice over. Remember you have to give up your phone to quality for $100
- Virtually all Network Operators have recycling-program where they buy back phones. Therefore Motorola did not offer anything new to the ripped off customers
- A cheap attempt by Motorola to keep consumers on their brand to shift more new phones, in numbers, for future financial reports
Update:
Droid-life just reported the following; "Server Logs Hint at Motorola Nexus Tablet and Phone?"
Source: http://www.droid-life.com/2012/10/05/server-logs-hint-at-motorola-nexus-tablet-and-phone/
Busy time for Nexus Program this year where potentially five manufacturers (Motorola, Asus, HTC, Samsung, LG) will have Nexus devices out before the year is out.
Looks like Samsung are on the Apple bandwagon after all!
http://m.digitaltrends.com/mobile/samsungs-secret-mission-cut-google-galaxy/
Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk
lyriquidperfection said:
Looks like Samsung are on the Apple bandwagon after all!
http://m.digitaltrends.com/mobile/samsungs-secret-mission-cut-google-galaxy/
Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk
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What i know thats android 4.4 so its basically not cutting/axing android by any mean
also as many people are using android samsung will be most likely loosing market share, well not from corporations but from end users who's regular people. unless they don't do the "hidden" switch
more like just an exaggerated traffic generating article to me....
Slowly but surely
Sent from my dominationed S4
THIS is what these "experts" don't realise:
http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2013...ntrolling-open-source-by-any-means-necessary/
Samsung isn't going anywhere
This is the section that shows why Amazon can live without Google and Samsung can't. While Amazon is a Google-API-copying machine, Samsung doesn't have many answers for third-party developers that currently rely on Google. Any speculation about Samsung leaving the Google ecosystem is premature until you see it licensing map data or building a cloud messaging API.
Amazon has done a decent job of keeping up, but the company was born on the Internet. Servers and software are the company's forte, so building out a bunch of cloud services isn't a huge change. Samsung Electronics is, well, an electronics company—building a cloud infrastructure and a bunch of APIs isn't in its DNA. So while Amazon can whip this together in a few years on the back of its cloud services platform, Samsung has much more of an uphill climb ahead of it.
Samsung has made a tiny bit of progress. As mentioned, the company has its own SDK for in-app purchases. Interestingly, it also has an advertisement SDK, but ads actually make money. Google supports ads on Android, iOS, Android forks, and even Windows Phone.
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http://www.theverge.com/2013/7/22/4...l-away-from-google-at-october-developer-event
"The relationship [between Google and Samsung] is symbiotic," says one source. [...] The recent release of the Galaxy S4 Google Play edition only underscores that the companies are still working together.
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Samsung trying slowly to build it's ecosystem a long time now which is expected as any company in their stead would have done to maximize their profit ... this was so obvious by samsung having an app store and preinstalled so many bloat apps of theirs in every of their phones and also trying again to build their own operating system ... so this is hardly new ... it's just an editor saw a big overhaul in the UI and finally understood it ...
But they are far from making that transition yet ... if the do it anytime soon meaning in a couple of years they ll end up like good old nokia most likely ..
AvelonTs said:
Samsung trying slowly to build it's ecosystem a long time now which is expected as any company in their stead would have done to maximize their profit ... this was so obvious by samsung having an app store and preinstalled so many bloat apps of theirs in every of their phones and also trying again to build their own operating system ... so this is hardly new ... it's just an editor saw a big overhaul in the UI and finally understood it ...
But they are far from making that transition yet ... if the do it anytime soon meaning in a couple of years they ll end up like good old nokia most likely ..
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don't believe it!
Samsung is still the number 1 Android manufacturer. I don't see them moving away from Android anytime soon. Google themselves are becoming more closed source, replacing AOSP apps with their own versions. Most manufacturers do this on their own skins, take Nokia for example they have their own unique apps on top of Windows OS. If anything is to fail for Samsung it'd most likely be Tizen of all things. Samsung has mega bucks behind them compared to most of the other Android manufacturers they can push and push all they like.
You see many people on here saying they will never buy another Samsung phone again due to KNOX etc but you have to remember us XDAers only represent a small % of the market share, the masses will still buy whatever phone they wish especially those who are not technically minded. Samsung you may hate them or love them but they do offer a range of devices suited for your budget, and I'm sure their low end phones are pretty popular in the third world markets.
I've been talking a lot with my friends about this who are also Android users. I know there are a lot of opinions about the Pixel, so I thought it would be interesting to make a thread to check back on in 6 months from launch to see how things panned out. At the end of the day either Google is correct with this phone, or the community was right in predicting the change. I figured 6 months is enough time to get the phone in the pipeline and where a price cut would be susceptible if one were to occur.
Here's my analysis:
Existing problems:
1. Pixel phone contains basic vanilla Android at the same price as an iPhone and Samsung with feature filled software skins.
2. Apple and Samsung both have established their product in the marketplace, unlike the Pixel. Samsung didn't get any real traction until the Galaxy S3/Note 3.........three generations in.....this is Pixel's first.
3. The biggest competitor (Galaxy/Note 7), both have expandable SD card storage and water resistance that the Pixel does not.
4. Only exclusive on Verizon, which allows only a small population to get it subsidized. (Both Apple/Samsung sell contract subsidized phones for BOTH Verizon and Sprint which creates a lower barrier to entry).
5. Google assistant which is one of its selling points, I don't see a huge immediate use for it unlike a better camera, or water resistance. There is a variant of this type of technology already out. It's called "SIRI" for iPhone and "S-Voice" for Samsung. It's been out for years and I don't know anyone personally who uses either on a daily basis. (or at all)
6. There are no "frills" to this phone. I keep saying that, however; the typically buyer of iPhone/Samsung do not know anything about the internals or the hardware. (How else would Apple get people to buy $3,000 laptops ? It's not the hardware they are buying). The phone is just too plain for mainstream appeal. Next time you see someone with a Samsung ask them if their bootloader is locked........then ask it in Japanese....you'll get the same response.
Pixel is taking aim at "mainstream", yet offering very little in terms of "frills" that mainstream typically likes yet charging flagship pricing. There is already a significant conflict in this strategy.
It's obvious based on the chart I uploaded Google's competency is not hardware unlike Apple......which would explain a lot. While I love Android, it's a small revenue of their overall revenue. Most likely, they are looking to diversify from just search and add to the bottom line as well from the smartphone market. It's very bold to try and compete against Apple that gets 53% of their overall revenue from iPhone alone, when Google has very little experience in that area (hardware).
Prediction:
In 6 months (or less), the Pixel phones will get price cuts to the same price as the 5x ($379) and 6p ($499). The phone won't be a flop and Google will keep it, but the price point was set too high. I don't think the phone is a total bust, but I do think with 99% certainty that this was priced too high to be competitive........Google just doesn't know it yet
Google right now can't even manage a proper messenger app (messenger, hangouts, allo.....seriously which one am I supposed to use Google ?), canceled Project Ara, canceled Google Glass, etc.......there's a lack of direction with the company needless to say.
Edit: Google search for Pixel compared to iPhone and Galaxy S7 (I left out Note 7 due to exploding battery interest) which has fallen off a cliff since the Pixel debut.
great post =) I agree with you
Well written. Very clear.
For me there is also a design problem.
The material design is too white and hurts my eyes especially in the evening. A dark theme is needed. So I am using Aquamail and not Gmail and apps with a dark theme. And black layers.
Maybe the Chinese will produce a better and cheaper phone. Who knows.
Maybe G is heading to a closed system ?
Or it could be the repeat of Google Pixel C with temporary "developer" discounts before the price goes back to list price. They don't seem to be too bothered about shifting stock.
Sent from my Nexus 6 using XDA-Developers mobile app
According to The Verge websites interview with Google's hardware chief, Google knows the first generation Pixel phone won't sale in volumes and expects to gain little market share, apparently there is long term strategy behind the scenes with the release of these first Pixel phones. Here's a quote from that article.
"We certainly arent going to have enormous volumes out of this product. This is very first innings for us." Googles metric of success for Pixel wont be whether it picks up significant market share, but whether it can garner customer satisfaction and form retail and carrier partnerships that Google can leverage for years to come."
http://www.theverge.com/a/google-pixel-phone-new-hardware-interview-2016
As for the cancellation of Google Glass and other Google hardware, that was done by the recently hired Google hardware chief so he could bring all the hardware teams together to focus on same objectives, so it appears Google now has a sense of direction, thanks to this new hardware chief aka ex-Motorola president. Here's a quote from another interview, just for reference.
"When Osterloh, 44, came on board in mid-April, he brought Google hardware groups into one division, shuttering projects he didn't see contributing to Googles future. Now the engineers and designers from Google Glass, Chromecast and Pixel all work together. Keeping them separate, he says, made it hard to drive toward the goal of portfolio strategy and focus."
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...-google-s-first-real-threat-to-apple-s-iphone
In order to gain customer satisfaction they need to have customers, and the feedback everywhere I look is that they've already caused dissatisfaction with their prices and therefore won't have a solid customer base - especially after alienating so many Nexus owners with the ludicrous six-week Nougat delay and the dropping of the Nexus line.
dahawthorne said:
In order to gain customer satisfaction they need to have customers, and the feedback everywhere I look is that they've already caused dissatisfaction with their prices and therefore won't have a solid customer base - especially after alienating so many Nexus owners with the ludicrous six-week Nougat delay and the dropping of the Nexus line.
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Click to collapse
As much as I love the Nexus and it's contributing users, they probably don't make up enough market share for Google to care. Most Nexus owners are phone enthusiasts, who make up a very small percentage of the smartphone market.
Some Pixel phones are already sold out in the Google Store, so people are buying them. It remains to be seen if it will be enough for their "Customer Satisfaction" goal but from their interview, they don't seem to feel the need to sell a whole lot in order to make that goal, at least initially.
mikeprius said:
I've been talking a lot with my friends about this who are also Android users. I know there are a lot of opinions about the Pixel, so I thought it would be interesting to make a thread to check back on in 6 months from launch to see how things panned out. At the end of the day either Google is correct with this phone, or the community was right in predicting the change. I figured 6 months is enough time to get the phone in the pipeline and where a price cut would be susceptible if one were to occur.
Here's my analysis:
Existing problems:
1. Pixel phone contains basic vanilla Android at the same price as an iPhone and Samsung with feature filled software skins.
This is called Bloat to me basic vanilla Android is a huge plus
2. Apple and Samsung both have established their product in the marketplace, unlike the Pixel. Samsung didn't get any real traction until the Galaxy S3/Note 3.........three generations in.....this is Pixel's first.
Even though Samsungs are some of the most bloated locked down devices and iPhones are not Android devices Google with Pixel branding I just a continuation. I do agree more Samsung Devices and iPhones will be sold but so what?
3. The biggest competitor (Galaxy/Note 7), both have expandable SD card storage and water resistance that the Pixel does not.
My new phone will have 128Gig do I really need more, unlimited cloud storage for photos will help too
4. Only exclusive on Verizon, which allows only a small population to get it subsidized. (Both Apple/Samsung sell contract subsidized phones for BOTH Verizon and Sprint which creates a lower barrier to entry).
I am not American but they do sell SIM unlocked devices in the States do they not?
5. Google assistant which is one of its selling points, I don't see a huge immediate use for it unlike a better camera, or water resistance. There is a variant of this type of technology already out. It's called "SIRI" for iPhone and "S-Voice" for Samsung. It's been out for years and I don't know anyone personally who uses either on a daily basis. (or at all)
I owned 16 smartphones since the iPhone and not once did lack of water resistance bother me and I had zero devices with water damage. Google Assist can not see me using it often but only time will tell
6. There are no "frills" to this phone. I keep saying that, however; the typically buyer of iPhone/Samsung do not know anything about the internals or the hardware. (How else would Apple get people to buy $3,000 laptops ? It's not the hardware they are buying). The phone is just too plain for mainstream appeal. Next time you see someone with a Samsung ask them if their bootloader is locked........then ask it in Japanese....you'll get the same response.
First to get Android updates, first device with Qualcomm 821, first with official daydream support, and yes at least some say this will have the best camera
Pixel is taking aim at "mainstream", yet offering very little in terms of "frills" that mainstream typically likes yet charging flagship pricing. There is already a significant conflict in this strategy.
Why do you think they are gearing this for the mainstream, they never had in the past?
It's obvious based on the chart I uploaded Google's competency is not hardware unlike Apple......which would explain a lot. While I love Android, it's a small revenue of their overall revenue. Most likely, they are looking to diversify from just search and add to the bottom line as well from the smartphone market. It's very bold to try and compete against Apple that gets 53% of their overall revenue from iPhone alone, when Google has very little experience in that area (hardware).
Google builds nothing they are contracting HTC to build the Pixel, Pixel XL. Nobody expects them every to sell more of the current Pixel phones than Apple sells
Prediction:
In 6 months (or less), the Pixel phones will get price cuts to the same price as the 5x ($379) and 6p ($499). The phone won't be a flop and Google will keep it, but the price point was set too high. I don't think the phone is a total bust, but I do think with 99% certainty that this was priced too high to be competitive........Google just doesn't know it yet
Google right now can't even manage a proper messenger app (messenger, hangouts, allo.....seriously which one am I supposed to use Google ?), canceled Project Ara, canceled Google Glass, etc.......there's a lack of direction with the company needless to say.
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Who knows about the price I do know the 32 Gig Nexus 6p was selling for $600 Canadian (I do not know what American pay) and in 6 months I can not see Google pricing the Pixel XL 32Gig lower. Sell more than Samsung and Apple no not believes this will every happen but different people by Samsung and Apple. People that generally never visit XDA and they are happy with whatever bloat Samsung and Apple gives them.
Maybe they are trying to create the equivalent of surface devices like Microsoft? I have no clue how that helps either of the companies. Maybe the idea is to just create a premium brand Google running Android even if every device sold loses money. Kind of like what Acura has to do with the NSX. It's an attempt to push the brand into a premium device discussion.
However, I definitely don't see anything that premium in the device. I don't see anything that premium in an iPhone either except that the lemmings have decided it is a premium product so like the unreliable Mercedes Benz cars out there, they retain resale value. At some point it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy.
To achieve a perception of being a premium product like Apple products, Google probably has to fire most of the tech guys running the hardware division and hire a real marketing team. The Oct 4 presentation was astonishingly lackluster. Same amount of glamour as a BlackBerry presentation. Bunch of geeks thinking just because they have a search engine cash cow, they must know everything else there is to know about the business world.
Honestly what the Nexus/pixel and allo/duo/messenger/hangouts mess should teach us is that these guys like going back to the drawing board way too often. This is not a mature company and will abandon loyal customers without hesitation if someone decides that's the cool thing to do. Project Fi customers, you will be next.
So in a nutshell don't over analyze Google, it's just a bunch of high school kids doing experiments in a Chemistry Lab. At some point there will be purple foam and a few explosions.
And there is no point hitching yourself to this wagon. Don't buy anything Google tries to market as premium. They don't have the discipline to maintain a message. Eventually everything they sell will be priced like a commodity.
Sent from my Nexus 6 using XDA-Developers mobile app
might want to modify the thread title's date. It's currently "10/5/16-4/5/16"; I'm pretty sure you meant "10/5/16-4/5/17"
First device with SD821? Not.
Google/Nexus phones were successful, because they targeted a specific niche that no one else did; devs/enthusiasts/folks who wanted to tinker and modify their phones completely and without restrictions.
Pixel phones have NOTHING that is "niche" driven; they are just like Apple/Samsung/who ever, with nothing really unique(S Pen, etc) to attract anyone really..
Sure, they will get the curious newbie/Iphone/Samsung lovers, but, those folks already have alot of choices, and those choices have alot more "features" that those folks want.
So, I cant fathom how this device will be anything more than a novelty, especially at that ridiculous price point..
mikeprius said:
I've been talking a lot with my friends about this who are also Android users. I know there are a lot of opinions about the Pixel, so I thought it would be interesting to make a thread to check back on in 6 months from launch to see how things panned out. At the end of the day either Google is correct with this phone, or the community was right in predicting the change. I figured 6 months is enough time to get the phone in the pipeline and where a price cut would be susceptible if one were to occur.
Yadda, yadda, yadda............................................[emoji23]
.
Google right now can't even manage a proper messenger app (messenger, hangouts, allo.....seriously which one am I supposed to use Google ?), canceled Project Ara, canceled Google Glass, etc.......there's a lack of direction with the company needless to say.
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Great post! Lots of info there. [SARCASM] You might have a bit too much time on your hands though. [emoji1] [/SARCASM]
khanam said:
Honestly what the Nexus/pixel and allo/duo/messenger/hangouts mess should teach us is that these guys like going back to the drawing board way too often. This is not a mature company and will abandon loyal customers without hesitation if someone decides that's the cool thing to do. Project Fi customers, you will be next.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
IMO, Nexus/Pixel is not a mess, they are simply trying to gain market share other than the developer/techie community. I would bet that they will end up partnering with all of the major carriers to sell the phones subsidized, Verizon just got the nod for release day because it is the biggest. The pixels will also come down in price from the play store as well.
As far as the Duo/allo/hangouts/messenger thing, from what I've been reading they are trying to market hangouts to the enterprise side of the mobile market. I never really used it for anything other than video calls now and again. Duo is much more convenient for video calls, although I wish they would have just incorporated it into the dialer kind of how FaceTime is on iphone. I don't know what to think about allo. It doesn't handle sms, and it doesn't do anything that other already established apps do as good or better.
I'm just going to wait it out to see if the price comes down, or if my carrier gets it. If not, oh well, I will explore other options at that time. After all I'm still paying for my N6 through January...
Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk
mikeprius said:
1. Pixel phone contains basic vanilla Android at the same price as an iPhone and Samsung with feature filled software skins.
2. Apple and Samsung both have established their product in the marketplace, unlike the Pixel. Samsung didn't get any real traction until the Galaxy S3/Note 3.........three generations in.....this is Pixel's first.
3. The biggest competitor (Galaxy/Note 7), both have expandable SD card storage and water resistance that the Pixel does not.
4. Only exclusive on Verizon, which allows only a small population to get it subsidized. (Both Apple/Samsung sell contract subsidized phones for BOTH Verizon and Sprint which creates a lower barrier to entry).
5. Google assistant which is one of its selling points, I don't see a huge immediate use for it unlike a better camera, or water resistance. There is a variant of this type of technology already out. It's called "SIRI" for iPhone and "S-Voice" for Samsung. It's been out for years and I don't know anyone personally who uses either on a daily basis. (or at all)
6. There are no "frills" to this phone. I keep saying that, however; the typically buyer of iPhone/Samsung do not know anything about the internals or the hardware. (How else would Apple get people to buy $3,000 laptops ? It's not the hardware they are buying). The phone is just too plain for mainstream appeal. Next time you see someone with a Samsung ask them if their bootloader is locked........then ask it in Japanese....you'll get the same response.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1. If you asked a user what was the difference between Touchwiz and vanilla Android, until Material Design the only thing they said was: Samsung looks nicer. Because Holo was ugly. But Material design changed that, so now basic Android is not ugly anymore. As for the gimmicks, a casual user will only use a fraction of the TouchWiz "features", and a vanilla Android user will not be missing any of those "features".
Pixel ha nice round icons, and a praised camera. You can consider it sold.
2. From the above linked interview this is the first step to establish Pixel as a product for the masses and not just for the techies. The are planning to sell 3-4 million units (good look with that). But even that's at least one order or magnitude below of the quantity Samsung and Apple sell. Google never bragged how many units they sold, you can't find official statistics, but it's obviously "not a damn lot", that's for sure.
3. And the iPhone does not have an SD card slot. The Galaxy S6 was a mistake for Samsung in every aspect, because they took away three things in one step: SD card, removable battery and custom roms. So there was a huge uproar, much bigger if they only played with these feature one at a time.
I too prefer an SD card, coming from Samsung phones, it was given, yet after one year using a mere 32GB phone I still live. So it's not a make/brake condition for me when buying a new phone.
5. It's a gimmick like Samsung's air gestures, keep awake when reading, knock twice on top to scroll to the top. You use it once then forget it. I bet for a week or two everybody will play with the assistant then forget it.
Compared to that Google Now cards are very useful, I use the Time to work, Time home card every day, and it helps avoiding the construction that kills the city, and to decide when it's totally beyond reason to leave home.
6. There are no real "frills". There are only those that some marketing think tank succeeds in convincing you that you actually need it. The camera is a frill enough to sell it, so it's the speed. Having the hardware from the start Google could optimize it a little to be better than the other manufacturers.
It is a mess. I compare it to the failures Apple had right after the Lisa, nonsense sales prediction with a exorbitant price point.
They can partner with as many carriers as they want over there (America, the world isn't just that) or try to subsidise phones.
Worldwide subsidisation of phones is impractical. And outside America the prices are even worse.
Highway 55 said:
IMO, Nexus/Pixel is not a mess, they are simply trying to gain market share other than the developer/techie community. I would bet that they will end up partnering with all of the major carriers to sell the phones subsidized, Verizon just got the nod for release day because it is the biggest. The pixels will also come down in price from the play store as well.
As far as the Duo/allo/hangouts/messenger thing, from what I've been reading they are trying to market hangouts to the enterprise side of the mobile market. I never really used it for anything other than video calls now and again. Duo is much more convenient for video calls, although I wish they would have just incorporated it into the dialer kind of how FaceTime is on iphone. I don't know what to think about allo. It doesn't handle sms, and it doesn't do anything that other already established apps do as good or better.
I'm just going to wait it out to see if the price comes down, or if my carrier gets it. If not, oh well, I will explore other options at that time. After all I'm still paying for my N6 through January...
Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk
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I am not sure why they abandoned hangouts for consumers - it was quite an all encompassing product for most of us between everything it handled - it just needed some tightening and polish but we finally had SMS, Voicemail, Video calling, IM, IP Calling all in 1. Now i have too many apps - when i instead want to simplify my life. No one likes to have something they were finding useful suddenly lose features - that just reeks of big brotherism - someone else deciding whats best for me instead of considering my own inputs.
On the pixel/nexus thing though - the way they should have done it is kept the nexus line alive and added a pixel or 2 phones with slightly more premium features but at a slightly higher price, then next generation a little higher price and so on.
That would have given all of us time to adjust and experiment. You do not just increase prices and abandon the nexus line without warning. That feels like them deciding what is best for us - like apple does. Give consumers choice, price products appropriately and allow them to cross bridges on price, features etc.
This abandoning nexus and replacing it with a non vanilla high priced pixel move is too sudden. That is why it feels like they do not listen to consumers and instead impose their vision on us. Who would like that? I chose to abandon iOS to have freedom - but the more they take those away from me - the more i look at Google and say, well this is not what i wanted. Locked bootloaders - does that not go against the very foundation of Android?
Another point - this AI push through Allo/Assistant is slowly going to convert you into a data contribution toward an engine - do you actually need to pay extra to lose your privacy - should that not happen in such a way that you get a discount on other products (i.e. your phone for example) which act as the conduit for your revealing your choices to the central database/skynet?
unfortunately, the mopes who sit in the production/sales meeting, only care about looking good to their bosses/making their bosses look good, and raise profits for shareholders..
They talk about how much Apple/Samsung charge for their phones, and sell 20 times more than Google does, so they figure, hey, lets just copy their business model, and we will look like heros.
Customers needs/wants get pushed to the back of the list, and market share/greater profits are all that matters..
And yeah, it sucks that we can now pay more for another "me too" phone, and, at the same time, surrender even more of our privacy, while paying through the nose for another Apple Clone..
No thanks, never a Pixel phone for me, at ANY price..
mixedguy said:
As much as I love the Nexus and it's contributing users, they probably don't make up enough market share for Google to care. Most Nexus owners are phone enthusiasts, who make up a very small percentage of the smartphone market.
Some Pixel phones are already sold out in the Google Store, so people are buying them. It remains to be seen if it will be enough for their "Customer Satisfaction" goal but from their interview, they don't seem to feel the need to sell a whole lot in order to make that goal, at least initially.
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Nexus no..it's a small segment. Android as a whole for Google is a very small amount of their revenue. Clearly the release of the Pixel is designed to make it a more considerable source of revenue for Google. They are not very diversified at the moment. All their money is in search.
AstroDigital said:
Who knows about the price I do know the 32 Gig Nexus 6p was selling for $600 Canadian (I do not know what American pay) and in 6 months I can not see Google pricing the Pixel XL 32Gig lower. Sell more than Samsung and Apple no not believes this will every happen but different people by Samsung and Apple. People that generally never visit XDA and they are happy with whatever bloat Samsung and Apple gives them.
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The United States there are 4 primary carriers (there are others, but the big 4 are AT&T, Sprint, Verizon, and T-Mobile). Before all 4 carriers did this, but 2 still do and that is offer 24 month contracts to be signed for a subsidized phone. So for example a $800 iPhone can be bought at Verizon or Sprint for $200-$300 depending on the model, current or past, etc, etc. That's how iPhone was able to be made available in mass. There's no way the people in the US could buy these phones outright at their current cost in large populations. It's outside many people's affordability.
All these products full price are out of the affordability for nearly everyone, so either they use the contract or use payments. With exclusive Verizon, everyone will do payments or buy outright (smaller population)......many people still use the contract that I know, taking this off the table for one carrier reduces accessibility.
Also, 2 of the 4 carriers in the US are CMDA technology not GSM so unlocked phones are limited. My carrier is CMDA so I cannot buy Xperia, One plus 3, or Axon 7. If I could, I'd have bought the One plus 3. Instead I'm stuck with the Nexus or some "whitelisted" device.
istperson said:
1. If you asked a user what was the difference between Touchwiz and vanilla Android, until Material Design the only thing they said was: Samsung looks nicer. Because Holo was ugly. But Material design changed that, so now basic Android is not ugly anymore. As for the gimmicks, a casual user will only use a fraction of the TouchWiz "features", and a vanilla Android user will not be missing any of those "features".
Pixel ha nice round icons, and a praised camera. You can consider it sold.
2. From the above linked interview this is the first step to establish Pixel as a product for the masses and not just for the techies. The are planning to sell 3-4 million units (good look with that). But even that's at least one order or magnitude below of the quantity Samsung and Apple sell. Google never bragged how many units they sold, you can't find official statistics, but it's obviously "not a damn lot", that's for sure.
3. And the iPhone does not have an SD card slot. The Galaxy S6 was a mistake for Samsung in every aspect, because they took away three things in one step: SD card, removable battery and custom roms. So there was a huge uproar, much bigger if they only played with these feature one at a time.
I too prefer an SD card, coming from Samsung phones, it was given, yet after one year using a mere 32GB phone I still live. So it's not a make/brake condition for me when buying a new phone.
5. It's a gimmick like Samsung's air gestures, keep awake when reading, knock twice on top to scroll to the top. You use it once then forget it. I bet for a week or two everybody will play with the assistant then forget it.
Compared to that Google Now cards are very useful, I use the Time to work, Time home card every day, and it helps avoiding the construction that kills the city, and to decide when it's totally beyond reason to leave home.
6. There are no real "frills". There are only those that some marketing think tank succeeds in convincing you that you actually need it. The camera is a frill enough to sell it, so it's the speed. Having the hardware from the start Google could optimize it a little to be better than the other manufacturers.
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While I can laugh at most people who become enamored with gimmicks, that's what sells. The stupid air gestures, and whatever toggles Samsung has that people flock to. They have no idea what chip is in their phone. Same goes for iPhone.
Everything else you are saying are your own personal preferences, not what mainstream people want. Majority of society is easily distracted by shiny gimmicks, engages in herd mentality buying decisions, and want instant gratification........these people are not "astute buyers" by any means, but they are the people who open their wallets and purses to buy these products.............it's pathetic but that's how the market is. Samsung and iPhone meet all these "needs". Pixel does not.
mixedguy said:
According to The Verge websites interview with Google's hardware chief, Google knows the first generation Pixel phone won't sale in volumes and expects to gain little market share, apparently there is long term strategy behind the scenes with the release of these first Pixel phones. Here's a quote from that article.
"We certainly arent going to have enormous volumes out of this product. This is very first innings for us." Googles metric of success for Pixel wont be whether it picks up significant market share, but whether it can garner customer satisfaction and form retail and carrier partnerships that Google can leverage for years to come."
http://www.theverge.com/a/google-pixel-phone-new-hardware-interview-2016
As for the cancellation of Google Glass and other Google hardware, that was done by the recently hired Google hardware chief so he could bring all the hardware teams together to focus on same objectives, so it appears Google now has a sense of direction, thanks to this new hardware chief aka ex-Motorola president. Here's a quote from another interview, just for reference.
"When Osterloh, 44, came on board in mid-April, he brought Google hardware groups into one division, shuttering projects he didn't see contributing to Googles future. Now the engineers and designers from Google Glass, Chromecast and Pixel all work together. Keeping them separate, he says, made it hard to drive toward the goal of portfolio strategy and focus."
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...-google-s-first-real-threat-to-apple-s-iphone
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The Google glass and other hardware that they were experimenting with does make sense b/c it was untested and they were looking at pioneering a new potential product. There's no existing prior benchmark. That has more leeway including cancellation which I understand. I think long-term it is a good idea Google has more control over the hardware and not just software because there has been too much fragmentation across the board in devices and with other Google products.
With that said, smartphones have been out for many years now, with the saturation really beginning to take hold in 2009 and forward (where more and more people were rapidly buying smartphones). There's enough data they could have made a more intelligent analysis on how to price the product (which I suspect is way too high).