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Hi, I recently read about a review of x7510 can allow some sort of touch typing on its attached keyboard.
Just wonder if anybody has actual experience on this. I am using a Shift... Excellent machine, great keyboard but the 2 hrs battery is not good enough for me and I don't really need Vista on my mobile tool. So looking at x7510 again... but would like to understand the negative productivity impact of the keyboard.
I am Asian having not so big fingers and was previously using Sigmarion III as my primary tool in office. Even comment on current x7501/x7500 would be useful to me.
Thanks much for sharing.
I'm have my X7501 for about 45 days and using mostly of the time the softkeyboard which is not that bad due to the increased size of it on the 5" screen. The detachable keyboard I leave in my backpack for when I have a table where I can place X7501 with the hardkeyboard. At hand I rather use the softkeyboard which can be improved using alternative software as you can check on this Forum. For serious work with long texting just get a slim USB keyboard which is very cheap and wide available and connect through the 4x1 cable. I'm also don't need Vista or XP during the day and rather work with a ligth set up like the Advantage. I had several other PDA's during the last years but the small screens were very frustating for real work. Hope you get one and enjoy!
Thanks RCF2 for your comment. Can you please share a little bit more on the attached keyboard on a desktop?
Is it touch typing possible for small fingers? Comparing to a normal keyboard, is it 50% or worst?
typing too fast... I meant when using the hard keyboard on a proper desk...
One more question, on soft keyboard, is it mainly thumb typing? Any possibility to use more than just thumb? It might sound silly... After doing texting/emails on various tiny WM devices for a few years, now having some problems with my palm (thumb typing motion) and doing accuputures... Looking for options to do thumb typing less...
Stanip, I would say that 50% is close to the correct figure on the hard keyboard on a table. Keep in mind that this depends on how fast you are on a regular keyboard. If you are really good with the 10 fingers you will takes much longer than twice on the X7501 for sure. One of the critics I heard about was they lack the tactil feel but the sound made by the typing is enough for me. The softkeyboard work well with the tumbs, never tried differently but if you find a proper way place the PDA/screen I'm sure that will work also. Again, if you need to produce long texts just get a cheap standard keyboard and connect.
stanip said:
One more question, on soft keyboard, is it mainly thumb typing? Any possibility to use more than just thumb? It might sound silly... After doing texting/emails on various tiny WM devices for a few years, now having some problems with my palm (thumb typing motion) and doing accuputures... Looking for options to do thumb typing less...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, not using the 7500 for typing much, but I guess I could learn typing with 6 fingers or so.
When typing a short message I dont even bother getting out the keyboard, I just use the softkeys, which work perfect considering the 5 inch screen.
You could attach an external keyboard if you use typing a lot, or some keyboard software to get a large touchpad keyboard on WM
Thanks for sharing Kowen and rcf2. This is very helpful.
Will wait for x7510 and give it a try.
You mentioned that you're an Asian. Do you need to input in an Asian lanaguage such as Chinese, Korean, Japanese, Thai, etc? If the answer is yet, then you have to rule out using the hardware keyboard, I think. Software keyboard is so much more versatile. It can take so many different layouts and forms. For English software keyboad, I find Tengo to be the best. It is small enough to cover only a little space on the screen, but have the largest hitting key areas (sound like contradiction I know) to allow finger typing. It is possible to go to 60 words per minutes with this keyboard. I'm able to take Sermon notes as the guy speaks, not word for word, but the main points with Tengo.
I never miss my hardware keybaord.
The idea of carrying another separate bluetooth keyboard just for typing is hard for me to understand, I must say.
Eaglesteve, do you use your thumb on Tengo to get to 60 wpm? That's fast. I am trying to use less of my thumb due to some problems developed over the years... Are there other ways to type on tengo?
I input mainly on English but am too lazy to carry a BT keyboard around in the office too.
stanip said:
Eaglesteve, do you use your thumb on Tengo to get to 60 wpm? That's fast. I am trying to use less of my thumb due to some problems developed over the years... Are there other ways to type on tengo?
I input mainly on English but am too lazy to carry a BT keyboard around in the office too.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I personally can't achieve that speed. To see others who can, visit the demo at Tengo website.
After using Hero for about a month I noticed that I can perform almost every task on this phone only using my right thumb. While multitouch seems to many including me like a revolutionary UI concept making user experience more comfortable I'd like to ask do we really need multitouch for anything except games?
Would you like to see more multitouch functions on Hero?
Don't you find gestures which can be performed using only one finger more suitable for small devices like cell phone?
well, i'd guess that that's the reason why there are no more multitouch gestures other than the zoom... i couldn't think of any other right now, but it for me it is similar to mouse gestures. there are like hundreds of them pre-made in any firefox add-on, i use maybe four of them. wouldn't wanna miss them though, same as the browser zoom
Well, when we get Eclair, and multitouch is actually part of android rather than just an HTC add-on, I imagine more and more android apps will adopt and take advantage of it.
I do see games getting much better with it. It'd be nice to have a more verbose on-screen controller for the SNES emulator, which is rather unusable on the Hero right now.
But yeah, I agree... as of right now, multitouch doesn't do a whole lot for us. I think the future has good things in store though.
multitouch is good for the keyboard, when you press and hold shift, you can make a capital letter easily for example.
Aside from that; a VNC app where 2 finger scroll is pan screen, and 1 finger is change mouse-cursor.
or two finger scroll down gesture on the screen will pull down the 'android-notification bar'.
Don't know. I guess I feel the same as you guys; I didn't really miss is it after coming from a iPhone 3G
Multitouch is extremely important if you want to type fast on the keyboard ! It will recognize your second character, even when your other thumb is still on the first character... without multitouch, you have to elevate your thumb first, before you can tap another letter with your other thumb (still following ? )... so it makes the typing experience A LOT better ! just try it yourself: type on a hero and then on a magic... there's a difference ! (well, for me there was )... also multitouch in the browser is pretty handy ! I use pinch & zoom ALL the time, because with double tap it doesn't zoom like I would want it to ...
So for me, multitouch is a pretty important factor !
Hi guys -
Shocked that no one else has mentioned this issue on XDA yet, actually...
One of the reasons I bought the keyboard dock for the Transformer was for the possibility of using VNC / RDP clients to control remote machines. This works brilliantly with the built-in client (Splashtop) -- with 2 mildly important exceptions: trackpad scrolling and right-click.
Right-clicking obviously backs out of the session completely (as this is hard-mapped to Android "back")... which is only less frustrating than 2-finger scrolling actually crashing the client and ending the session. If you even touch the trackpad with two fingers, you're finished. (Note: I've tried using USB mice and other clients as well with the same result.)
I'm really surprised at the oversight on ASUS' part here. The transformer and dock would be the perfect solution for this task if it were not for these issues.
So... as I'm not a programmer or dev (like some of the brilliant minds that grace this forum) I'm wondering -- is this something that could be fixed?
Trevor_g said:
Hi guys -
Shocked that no one else has mentioned this issue on XDA yet, actually...
One of the reasons I bought the keyboard dock for the Transformer was for the possibility of using VNC / RDP clients to control remote machines. This works brilliantly with the built-in client (Splashtop) -- with 2 mildly important exceptions: trackpad scrolling and right-click.
Right-clicking obviously backs out of the session completely (as this is hard-mapped to Android "back")... which is only less frustrating than 2-finger scrolling actually crashing the client and ending the session. If you even touch the trackpad with two fingers, you're finished. (Note: I've tried using USB mice and other clients as well with the same result.)
I'm really surprised at the oversight on ASUS' part here. The transformer and dock would be the perfect solution for this task if it were not for these issues.
So... as I'm not a programmer or dev (like some of the brilliant minds that grace this forum) I'm wondering -- is this something that could be fixed?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I believe it is probably possible to remap the right click button by editing the kernel and recompiling it (just like how people got rid of the tap click), thus letting you make it right click instead of "back". Some dev who looked at Transformer's kernel can probably give a definite answer.
i believe long press left click=right click
Sent from my Transformer TF101 using Tapatalk
Hmmm... that sounds positive. A hack to switch back and forth from "back" to "right-click" mapping (depending on the active app) would be helpful here.
However, the lack of right-click support isn't nearly as bad as the trackpad scrolling bug. The lack of this basic functionality makes remote clients really horrible to use.
Add one more feature to the list here: click and drag. This doesn't work also, meaning that the only way to scroll anything in VNC is to actually point and click. Yeeesh!
Trevor_g said:
Hmmm... that sounds positive. A hack to switch back and forth from "back" to "right-click" mapping (depending on the active app) would be helpful here.
However, the lack of right-click support isn't nearly as bad as the trackpad scrolling bug. The lack of this basic functionality makes remote clients really horrible to use.
Add one more feature to the list here: click and drag. This doesn't work also, meaning that the only way to scroll anything in VNC is to actually point and click. Yeeesh!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Uh, what VNC app are you using? Two-Finger scrolling works on any of the ones I use (Splashtop, RDP) and drag is just click, click and hold and then move your mouse.
frosty5689 said:
Uh, what VNC app are you using? Two-Finger scrolling works on any of the ones I use (Splashtop, RDP) and drag is just click, click and hold and then move your mouse.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm not speaking of the touchscreen functionality; these issues affect the trackpad on the keyboard dock making it almost unusable for this purpose.
I'm using Splashtop (bundled software -- but regardless, these issues are present on any VNC software I've tried). Two-finger scrolling does NOT work on the trackpad (if you try, your session will actually crash). Neither does click and drag, and right-click backs you out of the session completely. :s
Click and drag works in the HD version of Splashtop
Remote RDP Enterprise/free? supports drag and right click
Thanks for the input!
gwai_jai: Splashtop HD does seem to support click and drag - good find (discovered that recently). Now, if only we could find a way to map right-click and scroll (especially) to the trackpad on the keyboard dock...
dude2k5: When you say that this program supports right-click, is it just some kind of "virtual" / on-screen solution, or does the right mouse button on the trackpad actually work correctly?
Trevor_g said:
dude2k5: When you say that this program supports right-click, is it just some kind of "virtual" / on-screen solution, or does the right mouse button on the trackpad actually work correctly?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Supports physical right-click with the right button on the TF trackpad.
That is my primary RDP app now because it's the only one that properly supports right-mouse.
Two finger scrolling on the trackpad doesn't work for me though.
Trevor_g said:
Thanks for the input!
gwai_jai: Splashtop HD does seem to support click and drag - good find (discovered that recently). Now, if only we could find a way to map right-click and scroll (especially) to the trackpad on the keyboard dock...
dude2k5: When you say that this program supports right-click, is it just some kind of "virtual" / on-screen solution, or does the right mouse button on the trackpad actually work correctly?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
oh man iam waiting for scroll on the trackpad so desperately (two finger scroll on the touchpad of the dock)...then the transformer is perfect!!!
now iam using splashtop HD and i have to use page up/down for scrolling in windows.
opened a request on the splashtop forum support-remote.splashtop.com/entries/20210293-better-support-for-touchpad-dock-asus-transformer
I'm currently 'hacking' android-vnc-viewer (OpenSource) to support the TF touchpad. I have right-mouse-button and mouse tracking working although the former is a bit of a hack and the latter is laggy. I'll look into two-finger scrolling...
It's not perfect, contains debugging, and I need to do a fair amount of cleaning
up before I can commit patches to the opensource code project, but if people want to beta test I can stick a build up someplace.
YES!
Fantastic that someone is working on this! I'm sure I'm not the only person who would be willing to serve as a beta tester...
The first RDP app to support right-click, 2-finger scroll and mouse tracking would make it BIG I'm sure.
2-finger scrolling is huge... I agree with the previous poster. The Transformer handles this so well in Android, and dragging scroll bars and / or being forced to use 'page down' to navigate really does ruin the experience.
Keep us updated, mamoulian666...
rilot said:
Supports physical right-click with the right button on the TF trackpad.
That is my primary RDP app now because it's the only one that properly supports right-mouse.
Two finger scrolling on the trackpad doesn't work for me though.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This sounds promising as well - I'll look into it. Thanks for the heads up!
OK here's a link to my current build:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/13927052/androidVNC-branch_antlersoft_eeePadBuild_001.apk
As far as I know it's only VNC though, no RDP!
Because it's not signed it will probably ask you to uninstall the Market version first, it also won't use the settings so use the export function in the settings screen before uninstalling.
It should show some toasts on startup indicating that it has detected the Tranformer's touchpad, you should switch to 'mouse input mode' to get the pointer following and right-mouse-button. There might be some other toasts in there for my debugging purposes, if any are particularly annoying I can comment them out quite easily.
No two-finger yet, but any other suggestions/problems let me know.
Has anyone tried the build I put up?
If so can I have some feedback please - does it work OK for you?
It wouldn't install over the market version, but removing that manually first and then installing your worked.
As for right click, it works for thouchpad
It doesnt work for usb mouse, right button on it does nothing (don't remember it if it backed out of the app before).
I like the improments you made to the android-vnc app. Could you please post a version of the app without the toasts? Every so often one of them gets stuck on the screen and won't go away for ~5 min.
I like the right click option but the mouse tracking is very jumpy. I find that when the vnc pointer lags behind the trackpad the two won't line up again and will stay a fixed distance apart. Also is there a way to make the movement on the trackpad not act like a click and drag?
Xtralogic is the way to go. It supports right click (dock and Bluetooth). It also support the scroll wheel on Bluetooth. Give it a try on the Transformer, you'll be surprised how well it works (and how integrated it is).
Cheers.
Hi All,
I have been trying to find this out on the reviews I've seen online, but haven't found anyone that has concentrated on this to a decent level.
I'm just wondering if anyone can tell me how good the handwriting to text recognition is? I know this will probably be subject to how neat someones handwriting is, but if anyone knows of any videos I can check out, or can tell me from personal experience, that would be great!
Also, would this be compatible with software such as Evernote etc? Someone I know plans on getting a Note for meetings, and to take them down using the S-Pen, and a big seller would be whether it can convert her notes to text. Thanks in advance for any help offered!
-J
And what about comparing with Calligrapher for WM?
Thank you
I've been trying and here's the results: It took five goes to finish the page because it's too easy to touch buttons with your hand. The best way is to not touch the screen but this makes it difficult to write neatly. It took about ten seconds to convert the page to text. Unfortunately, the result was very poor. Over 50% of it was illegible. I'll try some more later.
It takes some practice to write neatly on the smooth slick surface, but when I actually make my letters in the right way I find the handwriting to type conversion to work quite well. Only been using the handwriting for messaging pad to try this. Havent tried converting a memo to type.
The recognition is good. The hard part is writing neatly on a slick surface. That makes it almost impossible for me. If I slow down to write neatly the benefit of it is lost since I can type faster on the keyboard with Swiftkey. Arguably I'm faster typing with Swiftkey than fast hand writing really. I didn't get the note for the handwriting recognition so it's fine with me but others may be disappointed.
I myself have not found the handwriting to text very good to be honest. I think I have generally quite neat, clear writing. I try not to write in cursive script but I think it is only 100% correct in less than a quarter of entries.
I still think the S-Pen is very good for jotting down a memo and have made use of this function at least 5 or 6 times already since I got the phone on Friday.
I am a lefty and am getting used to the handwriting system. The more l use it the easier it is becoming..
i turned on complete recognition not stroke recognition and have not much trouble writing all this now in complete sentences. l think it works very well
Sent from my GT-N7000 using XDA App
I prefer writepad
Worked much better on my old Palm Pilot
madmcphil said:
i turned on complete recognition not stroke recognition and have not much trouble writing all this now in complete sentences. l think it works very well
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Where is this set? I can't find it.
- Frank
Samsung keypad : settings : handwriting settings : recognition type
Try to write "brown" with handwriting recognition! It could be good but currently it's pretty much a joke from my perspective. The dictionary is full of non-words and having to tap the space bar between each word is ridiculous.
RashaMatt said:
Try to write "brown" with handwriting recognition! It could be good but currently it's pretty much a joke from my perspective. The dictionary is full of non-words and having to tap the space bar between each word is ridiculous.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You don't have to.
If you write in cursive, leaving a small space between words inserts a space. If you write in print, a slightly larger space works just as well.
I have a few issues like my 'v's being read as 'r's and punctuation being a bit of a problem, but that's about it.
P.S. I have pretty crappy handwriting and the fact that it can still be understood correctly really surprised me.
Oneiricl said:
You don't have to.
If you write in cursive, leaving a small space between words inserts a space. If you write in print, a slightly larger space works just as well.
I have a few issues like my 'v's being read as 'r's and punctuation being a bit of a problem, but that's about it.
P.S. I have pretty crappy handwriting and the fact that it can still be understood correctly really surprised me.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Do you think, the program will learn in the same way, as predictive input learns? Because then it will be possible, that in time it will recognise your own handwriting.
Given how insanely bad my handwriting is I've found the recognition remarkably good - I only really need to make a minimal effort to be a bit neater and it recognises probably 90% or so of what I write.
I've been using it loads, for writing lists etc. I'm not sure it would be good enough for someone who really relied on it for work, but it serves my purposes fine.
Bcroc said:
Do you think, the program will learn in the same way, as predictive input learns? Because then it will be possible, that in time it will recognise your own handwriting.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't think it does that, since a) I've seen no evidence for it in my unit and b) I'm assuming that would be a big selling point... and none of the promotional material mentions any such thing..
Although, I would love it if that was implemented somehow...
I agree with Geek78, I find Writepad to be excellent, especially with the stylus, and I believe it 'learns' your writing.
Search 'android writepad' on youtube...
Dan
RashaMatt said:
Worked much better on my old Palm Pilot
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
For old Palm users there is Graffiti Pro on the Market. Works like a charm. Maybe not as fast as other input methods but thanks to Graffiti's simplified characters you don't need to writte really neat and it feels natural once you learn it.
Hi guys.
Some time ago my laptop broke down. I haven't bought a new one since I'm low on cash so currently I'm borrowing my mates netbook.
I've been about a lot about a Tablet + keyboard solution. My primary objective is to take notes in my school, not writing big assignments (I have a desktop).
Is there any proper office alternatives for Android?
What do you guys think?
I replaced my netbook with this tablet. So I would normally say yes. However, I have yet to find a virtual keyboard that would be fast enough for keeping notes in a class environment. That said, there are plenty of bluetooth and USB keyboards that can work with the tablt and have a small form factor to make carrying it around between classes not a big deal.
Other than the need for fast typing, I would say yes, it definitely can replace a netbook. As for office replacements, it of course can use Google Docs, but there is Quick Office and similar paid-for apps to replace MS Office.
Thanks, that was really helpful!
I'm going to buy the USB folio case that's on ebay.
I'm from Denmark, and we have three extra letters, Æ Ø and Å, obviously these are not in the keyboard, but I recall on the Desire Z keyboard, if the long-press O, a box with Ø will pop.
Can you test also applies in honeycomb + usb keyboard?
If no one else chimes in, I'll test this when I get home. I know there are a LOT of extra/special characters available via long-press of certain virtual keyboard buttons, but I am not familiar with your moon-speak
not if you want to use iTunes....etc to load your iPod.
Amdathlonuk said:
not if you want to use iTunes....etc to load your iPod.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I haven't used iTunes for years!
Amdathlonuk said:
not if you want to use iTunes....etc to load your iPod.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Though I suppose that one might get it to work with some hacking and libimobiledevice...
Other than that, I am using an A501 (i. e. the 3g version of the A500) and a FreedomPro BT keyboard for university work every day, even doing presentations with it. To prepare slides and documents I use LaTeX running in a debian chroot (try Linux Installer) , though there are some apps that claim to be MS Office - compatible (never tried, I get a lot better results considerably faster with LaTeX).
Can you by any chance change the keyboard layout in honeycomb? Maybe remap the buttons?
If you are rooted, I think you could. I completely forgot to check out the long press and see if your special characters were there. If I go home for lunch, I will check, otherwise, I will check when I get home from my office, in about 7 hours
If you want to run MS office, forget it. If you want to re-calculate a 500mb spreadsheet, it's probably not going to do it.
The Office apps, like Polaris, QuickOffice, Docs to Go, can do simple things, like make changes and stuff. But they lack in understanding the formulas that are sometimes embedded in these documents. This is understandable.
It also does not have the raw processing power for graphics editing, audio and video encoding and conversion.
As an on the go replacement for mail, doc reviewing, and other general things, yes. It's great, and I never leave home without it. I send sms, skype, chat.
Is it a replacement, 75% yes.
---------- Post added at 08:38 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:37 PM ----------
Prozel said:
Can you by any chance change the keyboard layout in honeycomb? Maybe remap the buttons?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Lots of keyboards in the android market, with lots of functions. Most of them for free.
Moscow Desire said:
If you want to run MS office, forget it. If you want to re-calculate a 500mb spreadsheet, it's probably not going to do it.
It also does not have the raw processing power for graphics editing, audio and video encoding and conversion.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
A Netbook can't do any of this stuff either haha. Ok I guess it can run MS Office, but these netbooks aren't really much more powerful than the current tablets.
In terms of the long press on a hardware keyboard. It's likely not going to do it as long press will just repeat the letter you are holding down (I think? I actually haven't tested that on my keybo!)
I'm using the Acer A500 hardware keyboard. It's a BT keyboard and has lots of function keys on it. I'm sure there is a way to get those letters you need to pop up.
Moscow Desire said:
Lots of keyboards in the android market, with lots of functions. Most of them for free.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I meant remap a physical keyboard.
@All thanks for your answers, still heavily considering it!
As Android maps the physical keys to their corresponding software keys by key code and not by 'letter' (whatever that may be in terms of a keyboard) remapping keys is trivial: just change your software keyboard layout to the one you want, the same way as you would do it with any other computer...
If you are going to be using it to simply take notes and such, I would say yes, it would be a good replacement for a netbook. My tablet is way faster and better than my netbook for most things. As far as the keyboard goes with the special characters, I'm not sure about physical keyboard mapping. THere are a lot of software KBs on the market that allow you to assign special characters/functions to certain buttons. I use Thumb Keyboard and it has that feature, I'm sure there are many others too. All the keyboards I've installed have multi-language support so you're probably safe. I'm assuming that they make USB/BT keyboards for your country so they should work as well.
If you use go launcher, there are a bunch of go keyboards in different languages and I am pretty sure it says danish. I use OfficeSuite Pro 5 which was a free app of the day on amazon a while ago. Definitely if you are getting the keyboard /case combo, you should be able to do a lot.