Related
Here are some rules from the Vibrant section we should all follow.
egzthunder1 said:
This was a good meeting in General and it has covered all of the things that I had in my agenda. A few action items on our (mods) end:
1. New threads for ROM updates: Rom threads become quasi chaotic after page 100 or so. Since Chefs update most of their work often, I would suggest that chefs open a new thread for each version with a date and version number to distinguish it from the previous one (maybe even a name)
ie [ROM] 12/15/10 - Inchybrid v 1.2 - all is good now
2. Rom Review Thread: In order to minimize the clutter of the usual "what rom is best" questions, we will start a ROM thread where chefs can post a link to their roms on the first few posts and users will be able to leave reviews (not necessarily feedback), but reviews. So, when someone comes asking for the best rom, that person can be directed there.
3. Wiki update and guides (sticky): These need to be heavily updated, but will certainly be a useful tool to help people with questions.
4. Location / shape of the Report button: I will talk to the other admins and see what can be done about this one.
5. Preventing non-devs from making new threads in Dev: We are currently discussing a system for this. We will keep you posted if and when we reach a conclusion.
6. Off Topic Lounge: There will be a thread in General for you guys to blow off steam. Nothing fancy, but you can post there without having to open a new thread in OT general
Now, onto the action items results and requests from us (mods)
1. Further flaming for questions will not be tolerated. I gathered from this meeting that everyone agrees on a stance that people need not be flamed for asking anything. If there are questions in the wrong areas or simply don't feel like answering, refrain from posting and report it to us. We will move it to Q&A or General depending on the question. Building on this point, if anyone is caught flaming someone who posted in the correct section, that person will be given a vacation.
2. Rule 12 (aka Kanging): Rom chefs (no matter if they are themers or zip wizards), if they are using someone else's efforts as a base for their rom, they are to abide by Rule 12 by asking permission and posting the due credit in the opening post. Kanging will not be tolerated.
3. Donations: This was barely brushed but I feel that we reached an understanding rather quickly on this one. Chefs shall not ask for Donations to release early work.
4. Posting any kind of flaming will not be tolerated. If you feel that a post shouldn't be there, please let us know and we will take care of that.
I think this pretty much summed everything up. If I missed something, please let me know. I expect everyone to adhere to codes of conduct in this site. Thanks to all for attending.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That would be great if the mods are able to only give thread permissions to devs. This forum needs this kind of policing, but I think more Mods could help as well, it seems like Zelendel is the only Mod that comes around here.
flashman2002 said:
That would be great if the mods are able to only give thread permissions to devs. This forum needs this kind of policing, but I think more Mods could help as well, it seems like Zelendel is the only Mod that comes around here.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sounds very familiar..............
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=9591647&postcount=3155
Sqdnguns said:
Sounds very familiar..............
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=9591647&postcount=3155
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sweet, but I did not steal your thoughts if that is what you are meaning lol. I haven't used Perception since v4 so I had no idea you said this. But it really is a great idea and should be looked at by the Mods and Admin.
flashman2002 said:
Sweet, but I did not steal your thoughts if that is what you are meaning lol. I haven't used Perception since v4 so I had no idea you said this. But it really is a great idea and should be looked at by the Mods and Admin.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not at all, just glad someone else actually piped in on it.
5. Preventing non-devs from making new threads in Dev: We are currently discussing a system for this. We will keep you posted if and when we reach a conclusion.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
interesting idea.
If you do this you might consider making altering/combining the other forums slightly.
For instance
Make:
General = General / Q&A
and
Q & A = Development Q&A
This way non-dev with specific Development/Rom related' Q's could start threads under Dev. Q & A without cluttering up the General Q&A or the Development Threads.
bames said:
interesting idea.
If you do this you might consider making altering/combining the other forums slightly.
For instance
Make:
General = General / Q&A
and
Q & A = Development Q&A
This way non-dev with specific Development/Rom related' Q's could start threads under Dev. Q & A without cluttering up the General Q&A or the Development Threads.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've always thought something similar to this. It seems like a frequent misperception among those with posts <10 that Q&A is for those that know nothing, and the development thread is where you go if you know anything about development (and then you can also post a question there)
I for sure thought this when I first came to XDA (luckily I read the stickies which made that clear). But changing the name could help.
Sent from my SGH-T959D using XDA App
Or another idea would not be to just completely lock the Dev thread to devs, but to perhaps have a minimum level of seniority/experience to post -- aka Senior members.
The reason that I say this is that there are a ton of folks that are not devs, but do post a lot of helpful troubleshooting information and/or feedback that not all the devs can answer personally. I would much rather the devs use their precious time on getting us the next version of goodness rather than answering a lot of questions.
If you do require some level of seniority (100+ posts for example) you can probably cut down on a lot of the typical questions that are repeatedly asked (and answered a few posts back) and have a much cleaner thread. It's not a perfect world, but offenders can be dealt with individually when you have a smaller pool.
Not to say that noobs shouldn't have a place to ask questions -- we were all there at one time, but we just make sure there is a different area for this -- not clogging the particular ROM thread.
I've seen several other forums and communities operate with this type of principle in high value areas. It also allows newer members to get their feet wet and contribute in other areas by posting for others if they want to post in the dev community (but lurking will always be allowed / should be encouraged).
Just my 2 cents.
I have Stuck this as I agree 100000000000%. As far as locking the the Dev section, that has been talked about and is not going to happen anytime in the near future. My suggestion is for everyone and yes that means YOU to treat everyone with respect and dignity. If someone goes off I am almost always on and read every pm so let me know as I cant be everywhere at once and I am still learning as well.
Wow great ideas, I couldn't agree more. +1
I like the idea of new post for new versions, I hope that would cut down on the flaming too due to missing a one line post on page 999 of 1200 that would answer the question.
I disagree with the 'only devs can post in the dev section' rule. While I would technically not be considered a dev (per se) because I do not know how to make a ROM I would still like to be able to post in that section things that are technically not ROMs but do not fit in general. For example, I created the Galaxy S unlocker for Mac, but I have not figured out how to make a ROM. Does that make me a developer or not?
agreed man
+1 to the new ROM new thread idea. That would cut way down on the Old Salty XDA member yelling at the noob interactions.
Oh and i believe it should be illegal to call the Captivate a "Cappy" FYL
Don't worry about the guide portion, I have a guide in the works that covers everything from installing drivers to the update-script.
Another thing I would like to personally add. When new users or the not-so-inclined make a thread asking for help, do any of us stop to realize why that thread ends up on the Development board? In my opinion, we need a board dedicated to SUPPORT. Yeah, we have Q&A, but Q&A doesn't say Support to a lot of people. Example, Q&A to me spells "Information", not "Support." Sure, the Q&A's may be intended to be "My phone won't turn on", or "My 3g doesn't work", but if that's the case, why beat around the bush and call it Q&A?
There are those of us out there who do enjoy helping newcomers, and answering their questions; regardless of what board they post on; and there are those of us who like to get deep into this, leave support for the less experienced and get *$&! done. Know how we could cut back on flaming, and on people posting in the wrong board? Spell it out for them, in big bold letters; "Captivate Support". Not only that, dev's could start up a sister thread for each ROM they do in the support board, that way the actual release thread isn't a mess.
Maybe I'm just dumb though.
I have to say I particularly like the flaming rules. Sure, noobs are going to ask questions that everyone else has known the answer to for the past 5 months. I know it can get tedious reading these same things all the time, but remember that we once were noobs too, and I would bet most of us have asked "dumb" questions when first starting out. People are excited to learn about this stuff...let's not take away the spark with ad hominem attacks. They serve no purpose whatsoever, and no one wants to read them. If you don't want to answer, keep your mouth shut. If you do, do so politely either directly or (probably a little better), point them to a thread that will answer their questions. But come on, users calling a noob an "idiot" or "dumbass" for asking an honest question really pisses me off. And like I said, remember that you probably did it at some point, too. Okay, I'll get off my soapbox now
geokhentix said:
Don't worry about the guide portion, I have a guide in the works that covers everything from installing drivers to the update-script.
Another thing I would like to personally add. When new users or the not-so-inclined make a thread asking for help, do any of us stop to realize why that thread ends up on the Development board? In my opinion, we need a board dedicated to SUPPORT. Yeah, we have Q&A, but Q&A doesn't say Support to a lot of people. Example, Q&A to me spells "Information", not "Support." Sure, the Q&A's may be intended to be "My phone won't turn on", or "My 3g doesn't work", but if that's the case, why beat around the bush and call it Q&A?
There are those of us out there who do enjoy helping newcomers, and answering their questions; regardless of what board they post on; and there are those of us who like to get deep into this, leave support for the less experienced and get *$&! done. Know how we could cut back on flaming, and on people posting in the wrong board? Spell it out for them, in big bold letters; "Captivate Support"
Maybe I'm just dumb though.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think this is also a good idea, primarily for those with stock phones or just performing basic procedures (e.g. rooting).
As for the bold letters, personally, I like just linking to the proper forum instead...something like "This question should be answered in the Support forum. It's located here: http://.......". But, hey, that's personal preference. You're way's fine, too
bknust said:
I think this is also a good idea, primarily for those with stock phones or just performing basic procedures (e.g. rooting).
As for the bold letters, personally, I like just linking to the proper forum instead...something like "This question should be answered in the Support forum. It's located here: http://.......". But, hey, that's personal preference. You're way's fine, too
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No no, I don't mean bold letters to the people asking for help. I mean bold letters for the forum title so people know it's there. Support speaks louder than Q&A, especially with all the multilingual folks we have on here.
geokhentix said:
No no, I don't mean bold letters to the people asking for help. I mean bold letters for the forum title so people know it's there. Support speaks louder than Q&A, especially with all the multilingual folks we have on here.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Oops! Sorry, misunderstood. Yes, that would be a very good way to filter out a lot of the basic stuff. Good idea!
nbs11 said:
I disagree with the 'only devs can post in the dev section' rule. While I would technically not be considered a dev (per se) because I do not know how to make a ROM I would still like to be able to post in that section things that are technically not ROMs but do not fit in general. For example, I created the Galaxy S unlocker for Mac, but I have not figured out how to make a ROM. Does that make me a developer or not?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As far as I'm concerned, an unlocker for Mac does indeed belong in development with the current structure of xda. It's kind of one of those things that could go under Apps, but when I think of apps, I think of your standard user apps, not rooting/unlocking/ROM/etc. tools/hacks. Maybe there should be a forum strictly for ROM dev and a separate one for general system dev. To me, they are different. That's just how I see it, but I'm sure there are quite a few differing views on this.
I've read a few threads here lately where someone asks as question and thereafter gets berated by the members who consider themselves developers for posting a question here. I can totally see their side of the argument since this is a development forum and it makes sense to keep the threads like "Help with my app code" separate from "OMGWFTBBQ!! How do I unbrick my XOOM???". Those people often refer to THE RULES saying it's against them to post questions here and to post in the General section.
I actually don't see that in the rules.
But maybe it should be. I am 'guilty' of posting a question or two here, and I even read the rules first to make sure it was the right place to post. I didn't see anything telling me not to, so I posted here, simply because I feel that the General forum section is for basic questions. In that context, I can see why people do post questions here.
So, I'd like to propose a solution that I think would make everyone happy, and would help clean up this section.
A "XOOM Hacking Help and Advanced XOOM Topics" subforum.
This would be a forum where people could ask all the questions and topics that aren't directly related to the actual development and coding process, but are more advance than most of the topics in the General XOOM subforum.
Would anyone else find this useful?
Also, devs, if there was a forum like this, would you be willing to drop in to answer questions? I know everyone here who is not a developer values your knowledge and helpful insight, which is why people ask questions here in the first place.
Thoughts?
Ive felt a bit of negativity too here. One issue is we don't have a q and a section yet. We are so early in the development cycle for the Xoom. We are building kernels and we don't even have SD slot drivers yet! This is the time for folks to kick back, relax, and enjoy their new toy. I freaking love my xoom! I am so excited for the future of this device. All the fun will come in due time. Relax guys!
I agree. I'm enjoying my XOOM a ton, and I actually visit this section more than any other because I love to see what the great minds here are cooking up for the community. But, I can understand their frustration. They're trying to get their bearings on a new device, but are also getting bombarded with questions that bury topics that are actually related to development. I also agree that some of them go overboard and should take a chill pill. It's not good to have someone get turned off from this forum and its benefits because a dev snapped at them for invading their domain and asking for help.
I voted NO. When there are enough Devs to populate this section, then it will be useful, until then you are only fragmenting the people that make up the community. Until then I would think it best that questions To the devs as well as by devs would be at home here. Many devices never even make it past this point.
I wonder how many people that have developed or are actually developing someting for the Xoom right now, have been the ones to try to enforce said non existent rules.
Yes if your willing to manage moving threads around, because for sure thats whats gonna happen
Generally NO though, In other XDA Development sub forums there are plenty of "OMG I bricked my ..." and plenty of useful developer help... since said bricking, etc usually comes along with installing someone bleeding edge hack.
I understand the want for purity but it will take strict enforcement!
No.
Having a Q&A forum would be nice though to separate all the little questions, especially those that get asked over and over and over..
Wow. Split poll data. lol.
So, I guess the 'devs' should just be nice. Fair enough. Maybe the rules should be updated to reflect what exactly is allowed and/or welcome in this forum.
"Doesn't sound like development to me."
Hi guys,
This forum was originally set-up with Windows Mobile in mind. Last few months the forum gets flooded with a lot of questions about Android, which is still in an 'early' development phase. Some questions, about GPS, Wifi, SD-card not working, have been posted numerous times and this makes the forum messy.
Some while ago I have asked admins to have a look at a dedicated Android forum, but I never got a final answer about that. It seems that Android is getting more and more popular, and therefore I think its wise to have a dedicated place for Android. So I think we really need a dedicated Android forum with clear distinction between development and user threads.
I am not sure if I am the only one that thinks this way, if not lets mobilize ourselves and get some attention from the admins to get us a nice Android forum!
Give a reply with your opinion .
I hope you mean just another section inside this forum? However, I do agree 100%, it would be nice to have an android section for us to use and flood questions in there instead.
However, the current setup is designed to allow any OS questions. Not just Windows, so I can see both sides. One, if they leave it - it leaves it open to everyone. But if they don't add sections, it could get a little messy.
I think we have to adopt the same forum format of the HD2 in the near future, I agree 100% with you, and it would be very nice to have this right now...
It's only a thing to talk with the right people here in XDA to Achieve this.
I have also informend the mods some days ago. They are aware of it and think about a solution, one have stated.
I've submitted a request to the Admins for you guys
lets see if they create a new sub section or not
AllGamer said:
I've submitted a request to the Admins for you guys
lets see if they create a new sub section or not
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Allgamer, I would really like to thank you for your help on requesting the Android forum! It worked out very quick, we now have our dedicated Android forum !!!
http://forum.xda-developers.com/forumdisplay.php?f=1087
If someone takes a look at our little community, on first thought he wouldn't find anything interesting, well except the fact that not much developing is being done, but if they keep an eye on our section for a while they would notice a lot of rule breaking, bad habits, childish comments etc... so, after a while a person starts to ask himself some stuff, like:
Will people ever learn not to post non dev stuff in dev section? especially those who post questions, while there is a dedicated Q&A section for that, u just have to use the [I9001] tag and someone will answer u.There are also the general threads, like benchmarking ,announcements, enquiries (especially about ICS and other progress) etc... and all this stuff should be originally posted in General. now it's normal that every now and then someone opens a non dev related thread in dev section, but when u get 4-5 new threads daily it becomes annoying.
Now moving on to the bad habits, things like lil chit chats, non related posts, posts in different language other than english etc... they're all basic stuff that people who ever used any forums should be aware of.
And lastly, the childish reactions/comments by some people (and i'm not gonna name names here) which really isn't necessary in this forum. comments like "this is a copy of my rom" or "my tool has more options than the other one u are using" or "when i build a rom it will be the best one" adding to that the benchmark competitions, as if we're all in a penis measuring contest in which everyone has to prove he's the biggest man. that kind of attitude doesn't contribute to the general mood of our section. What some people need to understand is that all roms we have are based on stock roms, with little modifications/themes/tweaks that are universal, non of those which were ported by one dev exclusively onto his rom, so accusing someone else of stealing or copying is for least funny and childish.
The fact stays that among the active users in our section there are only 3 real devs, 2 of them are hardly logging in, while the third is the most active at the moment and he's the only one working on porting something, my point is, people should accept the fact that the majority are modders at best, and should keep their heads and feet on the ground.
anyways, i decided to open this thread coz everytime i throw a comment in a non related thread in dev section i get replies that accuse me of rage and disrespectfulness towards the other, which is not the case. so, as a conclusion, i hope there is hope for our community, and i hope someone will come across this post and it will remind him everytime he'd think about doing one of the things mentioned above. Cheers.
A lot of your points are true but I want to mention this too:
I haven't been hanging around long on XDA but ever since early november im checking our development section 10-20 times per day.
Most time I see you posting is about offending others to stop posting offtopic.
This was (in some cases) as well against the rules.
Why don't you just ignore them?
Sometimes it is as annoying to see people posting "this is off topic", "stop spaming"(when there are only few off topic posts) as it is to see actually spam.
I just remind you of the ICS testing thread in dev where you "kindly" asked the mods to not move your thread. Whatever.
Yes, you're right. We only have about 2-3 developers. But due to the lack of development our dev section is more like a general section for our phone.
It is reasonable that people post non dev related things in the dev section, just because the general forum is not often used by I9001 user.
Lets be honest: 99% of the user have no idea of development (me included and you probably too). But we are all interested and like to contribute. It is not spam if someone thanks (for example) Yarde for his CM7 work. Its just annoying to see you insulting people who want to thank developers.
(And yes I know, there is a "thanks" button)
It always depends on the point of view.
Maybe Yarde/skywalker01 look at your post and the only thing they can see is spam (just because it is technically wrong).
Don't forget, it is just a forum where a lot of people come together to share interests.
Everyone has the right to their opinion, u stated urs, and i respect it , but not necessarily agree with it
annqx said:
Most time I see you posting is about offending others to stop posting offtopic.
ts just annoying to see you insulting people who want to thank developers.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
link me to any of my posts where i "insult" people, and i don't mean when i comment stuff like "this is off topic" or "stop spamming and post in general" , i never insulted anyone in any of my posts i can assure u
I just remind you of the ICS testing thread in dev where you "kindly" asked the mods to not move your thread. Whatever.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yes i kindly asked the mods not to move it so people could see it, and i got pm's from people who wanted to test what zackconsole was trying to build, and u can find all this in that thread, also if u check my last post in that thread, u will see that i also "kindly" asked the mods to close it bcoz of the spamming and non related posts.
Yes, you're right. We only have about 2-3 developers. But due to the lack of development our dev section is more like a general section for our phone.
It is reasonable that people post non dev related things in the dev section, just because the general forum is not often used by I9001 user.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
it's ok , if u're all satisfied with the way things are now and trust me, i've written this post coz i don't feel like guiding people every single day in which section they should post. if it was to xda rules, none of the questions that are asked in rom (and other dev) threads are allowed, when people have questions of any type they should ask in Q&A , the dev threads are only for dev discussion, but xda and the mods are flexible enough to let people post and ask in the corresponding threads, but it doesn't mean that that flexibility should be abused
And as for posts like "wow, this is great" , "thank u" , "nice job" etc.. they only pump up the post count and make it hard to navigate throughout the thread and find useful posts.Ignoring all these "issues" only leaves space for more such acts.
So what is the solution? Posting in [I9000] General forum even tho the majority of the user won't see it?
Popularity for our phone would help, otherwise I don't see a "Galaxy S I9001 General" section.
Add this to your signature:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JmvCpR45LKA
annqx said:
So what is the solution? Posting in [I9000] General forum even tho the majority of the user won't see it?
Popularity for our phone would help, otherwise I don't see a "Galaxy S I9001 General" section.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
if u take a look at our Q&A and General threads u will see a lot of my posts, i come by whenever i'm online even though i'm not obliged to, but i look at it this way, if people asking for help won't get it here it's logical that they will start posting their questions and problems in dev, so even if i don't have a solution for someone's problem i try to give a suggestion or any sort of help, and i would appreciate it if more users would visit our threads and help others, that's the only way to get people to post there. If someone doesn't want to use our threads they can always post in I9000 Q&A or General sections , as long as they use the [I9001] tag, someone of us will notice it for sure, after all that's how u got to my post in I9000 General
wintel_mac said:
Add this to your signature:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JmvCpR45LKA
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
lol i remember baadnewz when he was still in the desire forum, he made that link famous
Am I alone in thinking that every ROM/kernel/mod getting their own Q & A thread is messy, fragmented, confusing and generally Not A Good Thing?
They're here to stay unfortunately, mods choice, but sheesh.... Even more room for dumb questions that have been answered many gazillion times before.
My $0.02.
+666
Sent from my N9005
So, what, you want all 5,867,631 members posting every question they have about every ROM single in one massive topic? Or would you prefer that everyone makes a new thread for every question? Which will inevitably lead to thousands of people asking the exact same question over and over and over again, making a new thread for every single one.
Good luck sorting out that nightmare.
Information is much more specific, sorted and organised this way. You need specific information in a thread, that's what the 'Search this thread' bar on the top right side is for.
ShadowLea said:
So, what, you want all 5,867,631 members posting every question they have about every ROM single in one massive topic? Or would you prefer that everyone makes a new thread for every question? Which will inevitably lead to thousands of people asking the exact same question over and over and over again, making a new thread for every single one.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In my experience, the latter is exactly what's going to happen anyway. Always has been that way, always will.
Your point of view is cogent, logical and eminently sensible. And that's why this new system won't work - because those who can't /won't use search, read more than one post, start with "I've tried searching but it didn't help" etc continue down their diametrically opposed routes...
I also have read one dev stating that he wants no part of an extra Q & A forum and won't be replying to any questions there.
So who gains?
A further thought - from what I can see, the Q&A Bot seems to be triggered by questions in the ROM/kernel fora/threads, judging by the redirects to the new Q&A threads.
But some of the former threads are 20+ pages long. I cannot see how further fragmentation will possibly lead to less clutter. Duplicate questions answered in different sub-fora, and extra threads for people not to search in will be the result. Hope I'm wrong. But I'm not, wait and see
Here's a prime example....
In all honesty i dont care how they want to structure the forum.
I do personally think it should be the other way Around. i.e. The MAIN Release of the ROM is on the Q&A and people have to earn the correct Rep to post in the Dev Section.
Why...
Well most people on this forum dont know how to use a search function, So what better way, Post your question in one section
Then post it again in another section, Double the chances / speed of being answered.
If a user cannot google a question or search the forum, How do the expect to filter the stupidity down by opening a new thread for people to post stupid questions.
Each Thread Q&A has all the normal stuff it does right now.
The Thread links off to the Dev section, where you will need X Reputation in order to post stuff in the development section.
I think this would reduce the stupid question and leave the developers forum free for actual debug, issues and fix's being posted.
Regardless of what suggestions are made, They will never be taken on board. Mods aint what they used to be Maybe i have been here too long.
No disrespect of course