Okay guys so we know all attempts at hacking the bootloader to circumvent the efuse hasn't worked. I feel that the only way to crack this thing open is with the keys from MOTO. Its a slim chance it will actually work but if enough people complain and flood their inboxes somethings bound to happen. maybe. hopefully. Well I sent in an email to tech support and got a cookie cutter response that you can see below. I then was playing around with possible email addresses for the Co-CEO Greg brown I finally landed on his email with the help of someone else and his email is [email protected] I sent him an email to which he forwarded to a PR person I'm guessing and got a cookie cutter response. This pisses me off. Let's do something about it. Everyone send your emails to to that guy requesting the keys. Make the subjects not all locked bootloader or he won't even look at them I'm guessing. This is ridiculous and we need to take a stand. If you don't like the idea then that's fine but to everyone else send an email.
Sent: Wednesday, November 17, 2010 2:30 PM
To: Brown Greg Pres CEO-CGB025
Subject: locked bootloader
Greg,
Please provide me with the keys to my phone. I purchased this phone and I should be able to do what I want with it. How would you like it if you purchased a car and the dealership put a lock on the hood not allowing you to access the engine. You would then have to go to that dealership each time you wanted anything done even though you are a mechanic yourself. This is exactly what is happening here. I'm tired of you guys locking down devices that a consumer has purchased. If I should so choose to do stuff that would violate warranties then that's all on me. You can reply with the keys.
Thanks.
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Their reply
Thank you for contacting Motorola. Your e-mail below was forwarded to me to address for Mr. Brown.
Motorola's primary focus is the security of our end users and protection of their data, while also meeting carrier, partner and legal requirements. The Droid X and a majority of Android consumer devices on the market today have a secured bootloader. In reference specifically to eFuse, the technology is not loaded with the purpose of preventing a consumer device from functioning, but rather ensuring for the user that the device only runs on updated and tested versions of software. If a device attempts to boot with unapproved software, it will go into recovery mode, and can re-boot once approved software is re-installed. Checking for a valid software configuration is a common practice within the industry to protect the user against potential malicious software threats. Motorola has been a long time advocate of open platforms and provides a number of resources to developers to foster the ecosystem including tools and access to devices via MOTODEV at http://developer.motorola.com.
Thank you,
Anne Arroyo
Motorola Consumer Advocacy Office
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COME ON GUYS.
What's the email address? It's worth a shot.
Sent from my DROIDX
bkjolly said:
What's the email address? It's worth a shot.
Sent from my DROIDX
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It's in the OP.
Email sent I will post it when I get the response.
Sent from my DROIDX
motorola don't care
You will get the same response... they feel they are protecting the end user which is us.... but also those who don't care to mod their droid x. They are operating under the excuse that someone may take the information and create a virus that would be able to take customer information... atleast that is the bull they are feeding the public. Not using the common since in their heads say... "we left the drod 1 unlocked and nothing significately bad happened." and they also like to say it will void the warranty.. bla bla bla... so no matter what you do all you will get is bullsh*t bullsh*t BULLSH*T.... until someone comes up with a valid excuse and manages to get through to an actual person... cause I would be willing to bet that... that is an automated response based on subject slash specific words in the body. no one with any power reads them and if they see anything envolving bootloader it is replied to in that fashion no matter what.
better off
You would be better off complaining if they don't want to unlock the bootloader, then they need to come up with a better more inventive and visualy apealing UI, cause BLUR is crap.
Motorola is starting to piss me off
Ubermicro13 said:
Motorola is starting to piss me off
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Same. They say they support the open policy but that's BS. I love the phone but will probably not buy another one. That being said I knew what I was getting into prior to buying the phone with the locked bootloader/eFuse. However, this being my first android phone I didn't realize how addicting customizing could be. ie. roms/kernals. well, I can imagine how addicting it would be.
emailed
just emailed greg..
Guy, think about this for a second.
What CAN'T we do to this phone that we're already doing, besides maybe an optimized kernel? WITH efuse in place, the devs have managed to implement overclocking, voltage mods, easy rooting, system ROMing, etc. Its my understanding that with the D1, OCing and voltage mods were done by customizing the kernel. Well, here we are with the DX and doing it easily with the bootloader still locked down.
Now, I'd like to see that bootloader unlocked for the sake of doing it, but still...um, we've already gotten around much of what we were prevented from doing in the first place and all under efuse's nose.
Aggie12 said:
Same. They say they support the open policy but that's BS. I love the phone but will probably not buy another one. That being said I knew what I was getting into prior to buying the phone with the locked bootloader/eFuse. However, this being my first android phone I didn't realize how addicting customizing could be. ie. roms/kernals. well, I can imagine how addicting it would be.
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Haha I'm on the same boat as you, It is indeed addicting.
The whole point of motorola locking down the bootloader was to prevent people from gaining the type of access we want. I know that the BL situation is annoying, but I was also aware of it when I bought the device. Personally, root and tethering are all that I want; otherwise, I would have bought a DI or Fascinate.
Not trying to hate, but i have seen multiple failed "outraged email drives" directed at motorola over the months
Sent from my DROIDX using XDA App
davisbs999 said:
The whole point of motorola locking down the bootloader was to prevent people from gaining the type of access we want. I know that the BL situation is annoying, but I was also aware of it when I bought the device. Personally, root and tethering are all that I want; otherwise, I would have bought a DI or Fascinate.
Not trying to hate, but i have seen multiple failed "outraged email drives" directed at motorola over the months
Sent from my DROIDX using XDA App
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That's fine. I'm not looking for the approval of your nor anyone else. It was merely a chance for me to vent my frustration towards the man. And I know we have come far but it's more of the principle that they still have so much say with the device even though we own it.
Why don't just send them your custom ROMs so they can approve they are within their "QA"? huh?
Dany0 said:
Why don't just send them your custom ROMs so they can approve they are within their "QA"? huh?
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I agree with that. Elect a team to build the ULTIMATE ROM and send to Moto. Show them what the devs can accomplish along with our user support.
We have to provide resistance and keep the pressure on them to stop this kind of lockdown for the future of modding/hacking devices.
Why ultimate, first we have to see what kind of roms they accept and which not. Then everyone will send it's own ROM.
And then we will sue them.
And then chuck norris... oh nothing
jasonm4046 said:
You will get the same response... they feel they are protecting the end user which is us.... but also those who don't care to mod their droid x. They are operating under the excuse that someone may take the information and create a virus that would be able to take customer information... atleast that is the bull they are feeding the public. Not using the common since in their heads say... "we left the drod 1 unlocked and nothing significately bad happened." and they also like to say it will void the warranty.. bla bla bla... so no matter what you do all you will get is bullsh*t bullsh*t BULLSH*T.... until someone comes up with a valid excuse and manages to get through to an actual person... cause I would be willing to bet that... that is an automated response based on subject slash specific words in the body. no one with any power reads them and if they see anything envolving bootloader it is replied to in that fashion no matter what.
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Click to collapse
I actually put it in my email not to give me that bull because everyone with half a brain knew it was a lie and that everyone that read it was laughing at Moto for thinking people were that stupid.
Sent from my DROIDX
SirBrass said:
Guy, think about this for a second.
What CAN'T we do to this phone that we're already doing, besides maybe an optimized kernel? WITH efuse in place, the devs have managed to implement overclocking, voltage mods, easy rooting, system ROMing, etc. Its my understanding that with the D1, OCing and voltage mods were done by customizing the kernel. Well, here we are with the DX and doing it easily with the bootloader still locked down.
Now, I'd like to see that bootloader unlocked for the sake of doing it, but still...um, we've already gotten around much of what we were prevented from doing in the first place and all under efuse's nose.
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The reason this is important is Moto's security gets tighter with every update. If we let them get away with it without at least trying to do something about it then they will continue to make security tighter and harder to work around. When other Manufacturers see that Moto got away with it they'll follow and eventually all phones will be locked down to the point that everyone is running the same Vanilla OS. The bootloader have a work around now but if we don't speak up it may not one day. They had no legitimate reason to lock the bootloader down it was just a show of force. Efuse is step one. So if you don't want Android ruined by the Manufacturers and Carriers speak up now. The Droid X is okay with a locked bootloader but they still put a leash on it and they're going to keep tightening it as long as we let them. Others will follow just watch HTC has already stared.
Sent from my DROIDX
Anyone want to start a web page for an online petition for Manufacturers not to lock down their phones? I would do it but I don't have the know how. But if we email this guy and start a web petition we have more of a voice. Call in to RadioAndroid and let the public know it's out there. This isn't just Moto we're fighting. We can stop other Manufacturs before they start or at least try.
Sent from my DROIDX
bkjolly said:
Anyone want to start a web page for an online petition for Manufacturers not to lock down their phones? I would do it but I don't have the know how. But if we email this guy and start a web petition we have more of a voice. Call in to RadioAndroid and let the public know it's out there. This isn't just Moto we're fighting. We can stop other Manufacturs before they start or at least try.
Sent from my DROIDX
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There have already been two online petitions done.
Related
Just read this piece of information...
http://www.thisandroidlife.com/2010...om-infected-iphones-and-android-handsets.html
I've always thought about this ever since a buddy of mine coded a little bot to do about the same thing to an online game.
Anyway,the real question I guess is, What can be done to prevent these types of thing from happening? What do you think?
Doesnt Android tell you everything a program is going to access before it's installed? I ALWAYS read that.
The only thing that this article is trying to point out is that non tech savvy users, which are probably a lot of Smartphone users won't really understand or care to know the "details" of the apps and what its all going to do, as such; they're more prone to installing these malicious apps. On top of that, they were showcasing that right now, they've only taken the GPS coordinates from the phone, but if they wanted to - passwords, messages, etc could be taken from the phone without anyone ever knowing.
I think this is good, it makes people more aware and allows us to be more cautious. Not mention, it's becoming obvious that Mobile data/traffic is easy to target and probably even easier to trick users (than on computers) because of lack of security and the notion that ones' phone cannot be "hacked" or what not.
hm
i had to go threw SlideMe.org to get a app because my bank blocked Android Market lol anyway. They sent out a server wide warning that app was bad last night.
BTW is there an app which logs where and what your phone sends? Like "littlesnitch"?
http://tinyurl.com/o9568k
There's not much that can be done about this, and it's a perfectly legitimate threat.
Yes, the app DOES tell you what it will be doing, but nearly any app that has Network access and Fine Location, especially if it does grab your GPS coordinates for something in the app itself, could send stuff behind the scenes and you'd be completely unaware.
I definitely don't think this will be the last time we'll hear about this sort of malicious app.
Negrito said:
Doesnt Android tell you everything a program is going to access before it's installed? I ALWAYS read that.
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Of course but you don't know EXACTLY what the app is doing with the info(unless you tear it apart).Like in the example a weather widget,of course its going to use gps.So what if another app that can access your phones info that would typically need to, but is broadcasting that info to a remote server.If you get what I'm, trying to get at.
Edit: What kmart said...lol
The only truly saving grace of these phones about the sensitivity of location awareness with respect to paranoia of the same, is that we can pull the battery and remove any doubt that the phone cannot disclose its function or location.
There was an article I read a while ago that the Fed's had issued over 3 million location requests last year to Sprint on users - warrant-less! How's that for Paranoia!!!
But all these apps in the market has the Buyer Beware tag so, of course at some point or another it will be exploited! For the most part, the idea of location awareness and marketing/advertisement and or service oriented provisioning is a great concept. The openness of the Android system to provide the same - will undoubtedly have it's shortfalls. A Good Firewall app that notifies and asks for approval prior to transmitting info or accepting connections from an app would go a long way to controlling potential problems. Just like a PC, which basically these phones have become.
well, considering I don't go on any financial sites from my phone, there's not much they can get off it...do they want my school email password? Have at it...they can read those worthless emails if they want (heck, even send a nice threatening email to my profressors for all I care lol).
Not to mention that my phone gets wiped a few times a week, just like so many other people here, there's not much they can get unless they can manage to hack into my google account and steal my credit card info...in which case, they won't be able to spend much on that account, since there's nothing in it lol.
This is as bad as "big brother" listening to my phone calls. What do I care? lol. If someone wants to know where I am, then by all means, let them know where I am. I'm not doing anything of interest to them.
On a side note, we apparently have caught the attention of the mods in this sub-forum, and have become a "family forum" according to a different thread lol.
tatonka_hero said:
On a side note, we apparently have caught the attention of the mods in this sub-forum, and have become a "family forum" according to a different thread lol.
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Hey Tatonka! Lol, wassup? hahaha, but if you could, please elaborate? I know it's off topic, but I'm happy to be apart of the Android Family hehe...
And oh... is there any PGP type Android app that anyone might be familiar with? Lol, just thinking about it with this topic, lol...
I was thinking about that 'Firewall App' idea.Maybe that could be done,it would definitely be something worth looking into.
In response to totonka's post,i hear you.I'm the same way,BUT there are plenty of people who do have sensitive info/files/pictures(you know what I'm talking about) that surely wouldn't want ANYone to have access to.That's just how it is.I'm just thinking of the tons of people who don't even know that this is even possible.
casperlt1 said:
I was thinking about that 'Firewall App' idea.Maybe that could be done,it would definitely be something worth looking into.
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My thoughts also, but I don't know if it is a true Firewall or just handles calls...
A security issue is still a security issue even if it doesn't affect you, and an invasion of privacy is still an invasion of privacy even if you don't care about it. Not trying to start any sort of flame here, please don't take it that way. Just mean to say that if you wait to take a stance on a known problem until it becomes YOUR problem, haven't you maybe waited too long?
These "pattern lockout please help" threads are the worst attempt at recovering stolen phones. Its obvious thw thieves create multiple accounts on xda, Then reply with things like "this is happening to me too" It supposed to build their credibility by creating small layers of trust. Its to make you think "Oh, well if multiple people are having an issue, maybe this is just another failure in the long list of problems."
I wouldnt be suprised if they start pm'ing people who attempt to help.
The bottom line is, this is a weak attempt to socially engineer you to break the law by helping them break the law. We all know that if you forget your pattern its easy enough to recover from it. My son locks my phone once a week from incorrect pattern entry. With my G1 it was married to one google account so i was forced to recover via gmail. Therefore if they are the true owners they will have no problem recovering.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
Word.
Well said.
Need to sticky this.
I'd pay for an app that locks down the recovery and download mode with a password - can't remember your pass - tough ****.
Hey people, I forgot my....
oh... I guess I have to ask androidforums...
+1
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
HG! said:
Hey people, I forgot my....
oh... I guess I have to ask androidforums...
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Definitely agree though!!!
Bump. Sticky this.
I agree with the OP, theres alot of phones on ebay and craigslist of the locked android phones. I sent a message to an ebay seller and his response was the phone was as is, but fully working. Would not go into detail when I asked him was it user error or stolen. My initial Vibrant I bought was stolen and I had no security installed. That mistake wont happen again but Please dont help the theives.
what if the person is being honest, and they are really pattern locked out, and they don't know anything about android? LOL that would suck, but I agree, lets not help thieves.
Yeah pretty much a big f you. I am a legit owner who was locked out the day I got my phone. Gmail did not unlock it so I called tmo. They walked me through a master unlock which made things worse, as now all my gmail info was deleted. Thank goodness there were people willing to help and I was able to get my phone back up and running. Its people like you who really make it hard for someone to get the help they need here on xda.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
SamsungVibrant said:
what if the person is being honest, and they are really pattern locked out, and they don't know anything about android? LOL that would suck, but I agree, lets not help thieves.
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it happens, but tough ****, we can't determine the real idiots from the thieves so it's best to help no one get past the unlock screen.
(although on stock vibrant there is a known issue that the pattern unlock does not go away even if you do the right thing)
While I do agree we shouldn't help thieves, we shouldn't make such a blanket statement. Just because you get locked out of your phone doesn't mean you stole it. I've had customers whose friends tried to unlock their phone and locked them out.
But I can see it now all the unhelpful vultures on here as soon as someone asks about being locked out of their phone. "ZOMG THIEVE CALL THE POLICE, TELL THE MODS, TRACK THEIR IP, THEIR WORSE THAN HITLER!!!!"
speoples20 said:
While I do agree we shouldn't help thieves, we shouldn't make such a blanket statement. Just because you get locked out of your phone doesn't mean you stole it. I've had customers whose friends tried to unlock their phone and locked them out.
But I can see it now all the unhelpful vultures on here as soon as someone asks about being locked out of their phone. "ZOMG THIEVE CALL THE POLICE, TELL THE MODS, TRACK THEIR IP, THEIR WORSE THAN HITLER!!!!"
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i am not saying that if a customer brings their phone into my store i am not going to help then(i would get reprimanded for that) but online i have no way of knowing if they are telling the truth or not. when people bring their phone into the store you can usually tell if they are telling the truth or not, or you have a hundred tools at your disposal as a rep that will tell you whether or not they bought the phone and/or it is theirs
I am not suggesting there are not circumstances where everything goes wrong and you are unable to sign in using your gmail account to unlock. Wait... yes i am. If you are in this situation it is 100% your fault.
Take ownership of your phone and whats on it.
If it were so easy to circumvent 2 layers of secuirty on a locked android device... then why even have it on there.
Most if not all people looking to get around the pattern unlock are in possesion of a phone they dont own.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
or they are completely retarded like 90% of my customers, there are thousands of people out there that have an android device and have no clue what their gmail password is because the sales rep set all that up for them and made sure that when they walked out the door they would have no problems. at least once a week i get customers that come in and tell me that they locked themselves out of their phone and i know they did because A) i sold it to them and set it up B) a co-worker sold it to them and i set it up C) they are old. most people don't bother to remember passwords just like they don't remember phone numbers, because technology has the ability to remember stuff for us then why the hell should we have to use our brain at all?
i am not saying that we should walk people through how to get past it, i am just stating that some people really are that stupid and can't remember unlock patterns or passwords, or phone numbers or whatever else. frankly i think even i have locked myself out of my old G1 because i changed my pattern and then forgot what is was(i changed mine once a week) just because i changed the pattern doesn't mean i stole it, it means i'm an idiot
i have also seen phones that will not let you use the gmail credentials even though you can use those same credentials to log in via computer. just because someone is stupid does not make them a thief, although being a thief makes them stupid
NoDataFound said:
I am not suggesting there are not circumstances where everything goes wrong and you are unable to sign in using your gmail account to unlock. Wait... yes i am. If you are in this situation it is 100% your fault.
Take ownership of your phone and whats on it.
If it were so easy to circumvent 2 layers of secuirty on a locked android device... then why even have it on there.
Most if not all people looking to get around the pattern unlock are in possesion of a phone they dont own.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
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Just because you have not run into a situation in which all systems failed does not mean it doesn't happen. Don't be do short sighted and pig headed that you under mind the purpose of help forums. I consider myself a semi intelligent person but somehow found myself completely locked out of my first vibrant. With the help of a few good people I was back up and running the next day. And this was on my day old stock vibrant. And yes the gmail auth failed even with the correct login info.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
Apexsilverevo said:
Just because you have not run into a situation in which all systems failed does not mean it doesn't happen. Don't be do short sighted and pig headed that you under mind the purpose of help forums. I consider myself a semi intelligent person but somehow found myself completely locked out of my first vibrant. With the help of a few good people I was back up and running the next day. And this was on my day old stock vibrant. And yes the gmail auth failed even with the correct login info.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
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As I pointed out already(and I'm agreeing with you) this is a known issue, and t-mo has said many times that they plan on a fix but I doubt it will be soon
Sent from my T-Mobile myTouch 3G Slide using XDA App
tubaking182 said:
or they are completely retarded like 90% of my customers, there are thousands of people out there that have an android device and have no clue what their gmail password is because the sales rep set all that up for them and made sure that when they walked out the door they would have no problems. at least once a week i get customers that come in and tell me that they locked themselves out of their phone and i know they did because A) i sold it to them and set it up B) a co-worker sold it to them and i set it up C) they are old. most people don't bother to remember passwords just like they don't remember phone numbers, because technology has the ability to remember stuff for us then why the hell should we have to use our brain at all?
i am not saying that we should walk people through how to get past it, i am just stating that some people really are that stupid and can't remember unlock patterns or passwords, or phone numbers or whatever else. frankly i think even i have locked myself out of my old G1 because i changed my pattern and then forgot what is was(i changed mine once a week) just because i changed the pattern doesn't mean i stole it, it means i'm an idiot
i have also seen phones that will not let you use the gmail credentials even though you can use those same credentials to log in via computer. just because someone is stupid does not make them a thief, although being a thief makes them stupid
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Overall you are correct. I deal with people all the time that dont know tech at all. The only thing I see wrong with your logic is that those type of people would not be on this forum. If the people bought the phone through a legit source they can go back to that store and get it unlocked or replaced.
tubaking182 said:
As I pointed out already(and I'm agreeing with you) this is a known issue, and t-mo has said many times that they plan on a fix but I doubt it will be soon
Sent from my T-Mobile myTouch 3G Slide using XDA App
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Got to love the xda app lol, I meant to quote the post above. But appreciate your response
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
Listen, there is a flaw with the fail safe of the patern lock. Its supposed to verify your google account info. It completely failed for me. First I was told I had to do it using 3G and not wi-fi. But neither worked. T mo actually replaced my phone because I got licked out
locked. They saw the error when I showed them I could log on with a computer but not with the phone which I had a receipt for.
Try it for yourself. Enter the wrong code until it asks for google verification.
Before you get your panties in a wad, why not see if there's a bug here after all.
Sent from my Samsung Vibrant using XDA App
IRT this article:
http://www.zdnet.com/blog/open-sour...r-android-becoming-a-political-liability/7588
Just wondering about T-Mobile's stance in essentially going against this by openly preventing customization of the OS, if this is enforceable and if they are in fact in violation of anything at this point. Thoughts?
Is this something that could lead to a class-action lawsuit..? Just curious. Looked and didn't see if there were any other threads related to this issue.. if there is, sorry for the redundancy.
Hate to be an the apologist here, but I just don't see how this is T-Mobile's fault.
That claim could have passed a month-two ago, but now we have the Desire HD and Desire Z which have similar/same protections yet are unbranded, simfree HTC devices. It definitely seems like this was more of an HTC idea that T-Mobile embraced.
Pickx said:
Hate to be an the apologist here, but I just don't see how this is T-Mobile's fault.
That claim could have passed a month-two ago, but now we have the Desire HD and Desire Z which have similar/same protections yet are unbranded, simfree HTC devices. It definitely seems like this was more of an HTC idea that T-Mobile embraced.
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Agreed.
Overall this isn't T-Mo's fault and we shouldn't be pointing the finger at them. HTC is the culprit. It will be interesting to see if anything comes of this.
My original understanding of this "agreement" was that Apple/Microsoft/Google couldn't sue the people that jailbroke/rooted/hacked the phones. Meaning, the jailbreakers of the iPhone could literally parade in front of Job's face that "Hey, I am the one who created the jailbreak software" and Apple couldn't sue them. I didn't think the "agreement" had anything to do with companies preventing such customizations. Maybe I just missed it.
I would much rather see these eFuse type chips and what not go away. I understand that root shouldn't be a push button option but a few hours of work by a smart dev should be enough of a deterrent from your avg joe to prevent random bricks.
I agree with what is above - this is in no way T-Mobile's fault. Also, this is a repost as well.
have you guys ever heard "you are the company you keep" or "aiding and abetting" or "accessory to...." bottom line t-mobile has their name branded on the phone and in the phone. they knew about this sh*t so they are just as responsible. trust me i've had my run in's with the law a couple of time to know how technical stuff like this gets.
t-mobile knew what was in the phone when they received it and even before so why shouldn't they be held just as responsible. If my name and signature is on a product I sell and endorse then why shouldn't I be held responsible? Its common sense
Sent from my T-Mobile G2 using XDA App
t-mobile has responsibilities for any t-mobile branded phone
I have faith the G2 will be fully rooted, in spite of HTC and/or T-Mobile.....HTC really pulled a Motorola on this one (trying to lock the phone up)....I have no doubt that if t-mobile pushed HTC an easy root solution could easily be forthcoming, but T-mobile is just playing the 'not my fault' bs game....
I have to be content knowing the G2 is the best Android phone currently on the market, and that the dev community will defeat root (once radio/hboot is fully dealt with....)....at least VISIONARY temp root allows easy wireless tether and Titanium in the meantime....
Its wrong. As soon as you buy something and becomes yours nobody should tell you how to use it or what to use it for. If I buy a phone to wipe my ass that shouldn't be tmobiles bussines. All they should be worried about is to sell phones and give services, but forbidding ppl to do what they want with what's theirs its very very wrong....and idiotic
Sent from my T-Mobile G2 using XDA App
bigstunta101 said:
have you guys ever heard "you are the company you keep" or "aiding and abetting" or "accessory to...." bottom line t-mobile has their name branded on the phone and in the phone. they knew about this sh*t so they are just as responsible. trust me i've had my run in's with the law a couple of time to know how technical stuff like this gets.
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Click to collapse
All they did was slap their name on something HTC created. You can't tell me you actually hold T-Mo responsible for something they didn't engineer? If they knew about it and didn't like it what do you think HTC would have done? Gone to ATT or switched it to a CDMA radio... oh wait they already basically have a copy cat coming out for Verizon. HTC can deal without selling through T-Mo. They'll survive.
nighthawk626 said:
t-mobile knew what was in the phone when they received it and even before so why shouldn't they be held just as responsible. If my name and signature is on a product I sell and endorse then why shouldn't I be held responsible? Its common sense
Sent from my T-Mobile G2 using XDA App
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You're common sense misleads you.
If you think T-Mo really has ANY influence over HTC you are mistaken. HTC sells through all 4 of the major carriers. They would just take their "G2" somewhere else. Blame the person that engineered the phone not the carrier to prints their name on it and throws a SIM card in it.
gaalaagaa said:
Its wrong. As soon as you buy something and becomes yours nobody should tell you how to use it or what to use it for. If I buy a phone to wipe my ass that shouldn't be tmobiles bussines. All they should be worried about is to sell phones and give services, but forbidding ppl to do what they want with what's theirs its very very wrong....and idiotic
Sent from my T-Mobile G2 using XDA App
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One problem...
There is a pesky thing called a warranty. If T-Mo/HTC provide a warranty, which they do, then they are obligated to fix/exchange a phone which cannot perform for its intended use. So if you bought a phone, rooted it, and royally F'ed it up because you are stupid and don't know what you are going you could then take it back to T-Mo and say it doesn't do what I bought it for and they would be obligated to fix it/provide a working one.
Consequently, to ensure as few people as possible root it they locked it down with this read-only NAND. They are protecting their arse.
Do I agree with it? No but I understand why they do what they do.
Warranty exchanges costs HTC money... so they want to ensure that as few warranty claims as possible are related to idiots doing something they shouldn't be or don't comprehend what they are doing.
It's a money game... nothing more nothing less.
@superfly u must work for tmobile and they must pay you good. Tmobile just cares about their damn money and sales. This ain't volunteer work for hurricane HTC. They are paid to sell the damn phones. Nobody put a gun to their head and told them to sell it. They are in it all the way even if all they did was slap their name on it. It officially states "hey I'm endorsing this product and all it comes with" endorsement comes with being held equally responsible. Just like in elections whatever one person in the party does that messes things up could ruin the whole party therefore everyone is held responsible even if they were on vacation when it happened. Here in the military that I'm in, its called accountability. There's no way of arguing your way out of something you are in ties with because it obviously has your imprints all over it. Simple as that
Sent from my T-Mobile G2 using XDA App
My dear brown nose friend Superfly:
IF tmobile cant handle that then they should close the company. Im sorry. I do as i please with what i paid for.Warranty only covers some things "which most of the time covers nothing" If i decide to wipe my ass with it then warranty wont cover it, if i decide to root it and brick it warranty wont cover it as simple as that...but then again i should do as i please with what is mine. We all know they could care less about you effin up your phone, all they want is being able to control what kind of os you got and bla bla bla only for sales porpuses.
When T-mo put thier name on it, they take all responsibility that comes with it.
First off, the article is trying to put blame on google... I just want to know how they cam e around to that. It feels like such a biased article. And how come there's no mention of Apple's practices? Or mentions of RIM? On top of that, it's already been said that this "rootkit" is bunked. Security measures are for the safety of the phone, usually. Why do they need to lock out the phone? You can cause a lot of havoc on the network with root access. (in fact, I kinda remember reading about an app that did just that when installed on rooted phones) It's in the interest of the customers to actually provide these security features. Just because we, as the technically inclined, get it, doesn't mean the average user should be punished.
nighthawk626 said:
@superfly u must work for tmobile and they must pay you good.
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I work for a public accounting firm and I'm a CPA... want to try again?
nighthawk626 said:
Tmobile just cares about their damn money and sales. This ain't volunteer work for hurricane HTC. They are paid to sell the damn phones.
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They make their money providing service for the phones they sell...
nighthawk626 said:
Nobody put a gun to their head and told them to sell it. They are in it all the way even if all they did was slap their name on it.
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This is just silly. T-Mo might exchange handsets but all the costs end up back on HTC depending on their agreement.
nighthawk626 said:
It officially states "hey I'm endorsing this product and all it comes with" endorsement comes with being held equally responsible.
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Again, do you think they had any part in the dev of the phone?
nighthawk626 said:
Just like in elections whatever one person in the party does that messes things up could ruin the whole party therefore everyone is held responsible even if they were on vacation when it happened. Here in the military that I'm in, its called accountability. There's no way of arguing your way out of something you are in ties with because it obviously has your imprints all over it. Simple as that
Sent from my T-Mobile G2 using XDA App
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Really? it's that simple?
So does Verizon, T-Mo, AT&T and Sprint take the fall for the Galaxy S debacle? They all have the same issue and all the customers are pissed off for the same reason so it is the carrier's fault? No, it is Samsung's fault. The fault lies with the person who made the phone and the software on the phone. Samsung should be held accountable for their failure of a phone... just like HTC should be held accountable if they are indeed in violation of this accord.
gaalaagaa said:
My dear brown nose friend Superfly:
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I have 0 loyalties to T-Mo. This is actually the first T-Mo phone I've owned. In the past 3 years I've moved from VZW to ATT to Sprint to VZW to T-Mo. I don't give a crap about any carrier specifically. Moving on.
gaalaagaa said:
IF tmobile cant handle that then they should close the company.
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Handle what exactly?
gaalaagaa said:
Im sorry. I do as i please with what i paid for. Warranty only covers some things "which most of the time covers nothing" If i decide to wipe my ass with it then warranty wont cover it, if i decide to root it and brick it warranty wont cover it as simple as that...but then again i should do as i please with what is mine.
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And what happens when someone roots their phone and takes it back and whines and biotches until they get a replacement? People abuse the warranty system which is why things are so tight these days. I don't disagree with your position, I wish I could basically "one click root" on day 0. It would be sweet but that's not the way the world is.
gaalaagaa said:
We all know they could care less about you effin up your phone, all they want is being able to control what kind of os you got and bla bla bla only for sales porpuses.
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Only for sales purposes? There are 100 other reasons for control over the content besides "sales". What does "sales" even include?
asarousi said:
When T-mo put thier name on it, they take all responsibility that comes with it.
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Bull... I completely disagree with this. If their customizations caused problems then yes it is their fault but just because their put their name on it doesn't make it their fault. HTC designed, manufactured and marketed the phone... T-Mo printed their name on the glass and provided you with service. That's it.
LOL...another "class-action?" thread. Why not take the initiative and start the class action process if you are so curious about it? Speak to a lawyer, read up on the requirements for a class-action suit. I don't think anyone in a forum is gonna actually do that.
For all you people *****in about the locked nand Stop *****in about it yesh. Don't like it get another phone. There are plenty of other phones you can root and such.
Nobody is saying that tmobile made the phone but don't sit there and tell me that when they were picking this phone as part of their lineup, they didn't play with it or even look at it at all. Bottom line is they knew what was in the phone, I'm sure they were hoping the hinge issue wouldn't blow up like it did and also they knew about rooting and tethering some that's why I'm sure they continued to put it in their line up. It wasn't just tossed on their lap. They have phone testers and possibly hired rooters and devs to test how rootable this phone is. Either way they are accountable
Sent from my T-Mobile G2 using XDA App
Bull crap. Ill buy the phone i want and root the phone i want because i want. Point blank
Nobody has forbidden anyone to root this phone. They made it hard to do and they put up a very clever stumbling block, but they didn't forbid it.
You can crack the phone open and look at every part of it, nobody will stop you, but they don't have to put a button on the side that makes it fall apart so that you can do it easily.
Similarly, if the community figures out the mechanism used to protect the ROM, then you can root it and install the software you want, but that doesn't mean the manufacturer or carrier are required to make it easy for you to do so.
The zdnet article cites the recent DMCA exclusion as meaning that we have the right to put whatever software we want on the phone. That exclusion provided no such right. It says that the federal courts will not prosecute us for defeating electronic protections in the phone - it doesn't make it illegal for the manufacturers to put those protections in the phone in the first place.
It's like a law limiting the penalties for jumping a fence - such a law wouldn't make fences themselves illegal. In fact, such a law would likely lead to fences that are harder to jump since the property owners could no longer rely on threat of prosecution to keep people from trying. Similarly, the DMCA exclusion is leading to electronic protections that are harder to crack because they are now the only line of defense.
Also, if they sold you a general computing device, but restricted the software you could put on it, then we would have a right to complain because a device isn't a very general computing device if it only runs canned software. Unfortunately, T-Mobile sold us a phone and the phone has to make calls primarily, and a smartphone further should provide some data access for the phone and, nowadays, the ability to install apps through a designed mechanism. There is nothing about the class of device that we were sold that implies the ability to run an arbitrary firmware or system software. They may not be able to stop us from doing that, but they don't have to allow it.
Consider that even in a general computing device, like a PC, there are parts that run software that you cannot modify. The firmware on DVD or Blu-Ray drives tends to be fairly locked down. Nobody cries fowl about that because the DVD/BR drive was sold for the purpose of reading (and sometimes writing) approved discs, not as a general computing device that will run whatever software you choose to load on it...
Gaalaagaa,
So with that logic, you can buy, let's say any car and then just decide that because "you want" or "you can" you'll remove the stock engine and drop in anything you want and then expect the manufacturer to cover it no matter what.
I'm all for root and using my G2 how I please, but that statement is moronic.
Sent from my T-Mobile G2 using XDA App
If true...
http://phandroid.com/2011/04/04/developer-troubled-times-ahead-for-anyone-who-roots/
Oh and where's the tags that the mods add in on My threads about my girl blowing everyone lol I'm still waiting haaaaa update there it is
Oh nooooooeeessss!!!
Sigh.
This really makes me want to just use a laptop for a phone now.
At least I can do what I want with my laptop's data connection.
WTF!??
10char
f***
OK, this is the kinda stuff where either Google needs to get its balls back and *****-slap the carriers, or the FCC needs to actually step in to protect customers.
Either way, it's bull****. Screw Verizon and every other carrier that does this.
this is me forgetting to thank you.
drmacinyasha said:
OK, this is the kinda stuff where either Google needs to get its balls back and *****-slap the carriers, or the FCC needs to actually step in to protect customers.
Either way, it's bull****. Screw Verizon and every other carrier that does this.
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+1
I will never buy a phone from a carrier that implements this crap
drmacinyasha said:
ok, this is the kinda stuff where either google needs to get its balls back and *****-slap the carriers, or the fcc needs to actually step in to protect customers.
Either way, it's bull****. Screw verizon and every other carrier that does this.
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+2788786886
I agree this is total B.S.
lost_man10002 said:
+1
I will never buy a phone from a carrier that implements this crap
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No one should, the consumers run this together we can boycott any carrier who does this dictatorship bull****, I pledge I will not support any carrier who does this.
I'd rather take my evo and flash to cricket
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App
drmacinyasha said:
OK, this is the kinda stuff where either Google needs to get its balls back and *****-slap the carriers, or the FCC needs to actually step in to protect customers.
Either way, it's bull****. Screw Verizon and every other carrier that does this.
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Click to collapse
+1
This brought tears to my eyes.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA Premium App
Eff that. I will not buy a phone like that... If I have to go back to dumbphones... Then so be it.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA Premium App
It will never happen. The backlash would just be too much to handle.
And if manufacturers were to begin implementing these types of lockdowns, you know for a fact that they'll just be hacked around sooner or later.
Hello? We are discussing this on XDA... Home to undoubtedly the best group of white hat device hackers I've seen.
We all assume risk when rooting our devices and given the more open nature of Android, there's always the concern that some application will start stealing your data. It's a risk I'm willing to take and I'm sure most everyone else here as well.
mkhopper said:
It will never happen. The backlash would just be too much to handle.
And if manufacturers were to begin implementing these types of lockdowns, you know for a fact that they'll just be hacked around sooner or later.
Hello? We are discussing this on XDA... Home to undoubtedly the best group of white hat device hackers I've seen.
We all assume risk when rooting our devices and given the more open nature of Android, there's always the concern that some application will start stealing your data. It's a risk I'm willing to take and I'm sure most everyone else here as well.
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Click to collapse
Here's the problem with what you stated, the percentage of users rooted compared to non rooted, well are not even close, if they did lock out every new phone with master keys that we would never be able to figure out, well it could happen. Even if they did lose every rooted users support financially, they would still have more than 95 percent of their profiT, that's my fear, it'll hurt but not if sprint, Verizon, etc pays the difference or that kind of sort of thing. For example to make it easy, say all rooted user cause 600,000 in lost profit for sprint that they could have potentially gained, well HTC goes hey well lock the device but we want the difference from the users like us who will not purchase the phone. Anyway that's my take on it, enlighten me with your guys thoughts
It may be time to dust off my Razr.
Carriers get smart, devs get smarter......lets not jump the gun and worry about this nonsense now. I will enjoy my rooted phone for now. If this does go down those of you saying you will go to "dumbphones" are full of it. Even if these phones are locked down tighter than a 17 year old girls tuna you will still use it. I see the future as phones will be so fast why would you need to root; I love to root, I've been rooting ALL my phones since g1 and the sole purpose was the speed my phone up. Dual core phone no root ehh who cares. I will NOT use a free phone just because these phones in the future will possibly be locked. One can only hope this security doesn't see light but if it does I'm sure we'll be ok.
iitreatedii said:
Here's the problem with what you stated, the percentage of users rooted compared to non rooted, well are not even close, if they did lock out every new phone with master keys that we would never be able to figure out, well it could happen. Even if they did lose every rooted users support financially, they would still have more than 95 percent of their profiT, that's my fear, it'll hurt but not if sprint, Verizon, etc pays the difference or that kind of sort of thing. For example to make it easy, say all rooted user cause 600,000 in lost profit for sprint that they could have potentially gained, well HTC goes hey well lock the device but we want the difference from the users like us who will not purchase the phone. Anyway that's my take on it, enlighten me with your guys thoughts
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I've heard the "rooted users are the extreme minority" comment countless times, and all logic says it really must be true.
However, when I go to the market, click apps, then all applications, then click top paid, 3 of the top 5 require root. As an honest question, are my market results tailored for my usage history or is that the same "top paid" list everyone sees? If it is indeed the same for everyone then it becomes much harder to quantify rooted users being in the minority.
Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk
dirkyd3rk said:
Carriers get smart, devs get smarter......lets not jump the gun and worry about this nonsense now. I will enjoy my rooted phone for now. If this does go down those of you saying you will go to "dumbphones" are full of it. Even if these phones are locked down tighter than a 17 year old girls tuna you will still use it. I see the future as phones will be so fast why would you need to root; I love to root, I've been rooting ALL my phones since g1 and the sole purpose was the speed my phone up. Dual core phone no root ehh who cares. I will NOT use a free phone just because these phones in the future will possibly be locked. One can only hope this security doesn't see light but if it does I'm sure we'll be ok.
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Completely agree about the smartphone part but do not about the master key part, it would take years like 75 - 100 if the key is properly secure for many and I mean many super computers to solve that algorithm...look at the droids, the only reason on a side note the ps3 master key was released was because the people who secured it messed up in the formula, and that still took 5 years..
the consequence would never be the same.
Source: http://www.engadget.com/2011/04/20/visualized-what-motorola-android-users-want/
This is hillarious in of itself but come on folks, let's do our part to let them know. Contribute to that poll so Motorola realizes this isn't just some "small minority" that wants this.
JdeFalconr said:
Source: http://www.engadget.com/2011/04/20/visualized-what-motorola-android-users-want/
This is hillarious in of itself but come on folks, let's do our part to let them know. Contribute to that poll so Motorola realizes this isn't just some "small minority" that wants this.
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Click to collapse
Feel free to join my group
http://www.facebook.com/home.php?sk=group_194049430639203&ap=1
I've pretty much resigned myself to the fact that we wont ever get an unlocked bootloader from Motorola for this phone, and that no developer will ever be able to crack it. No matter how many petitions, letters, phone calls, emails are sent...motorola will do nothing.
ttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttt
didnt motorola already say they will unlock the bootloader?
blunted09 said:
didnt motorola already say they will unlock the bootloader?
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Yes... But they never mentioned which phones for and when... The saddest part is that there is a lots of outcry about the locked boot loader but Mr. Sanjay Jha and company is just deaf.
I don't ever get what Motorola is trying to achieve in this competitive edge... when there is companies like HTC who clearly states on phone when you call them that "if you have done some flashing/modding to your phone, we won't say we will not repair your phone as long as the problem is arisen by itself, if the issue happened because you ****ed up your phone, we will still fix it for you but will charge you."
They come up with these fancy trend setting pieces of hardware, but then they tend to tie you up with locked boot loader, ****ed up update policy etc...
When I purchased my phone, I was so exited, even today showing off my dual-core processor equipped piece of hardware makes me feel proud in front of my friends... but more I read about the restrictions... problems with this phone... is more I am getting upset... simple example... Moto and AT&T just released update 2.2.2 for US Customers, what about its sibling available at Bell?
Any other way? I'm done with Facebook!...
Groubal:
http://www.groubal.com/motorola-lockedencrypted-bootloader-policy/
phobos512 said:
Groubal:
http://www.groubal.com/motorola-lockedencrypted-bootloader-policy/
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Much better thanks!...