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If you are the kind of person who gets emotionally attached to the gadgets you buy, please stop reading this post.
I'm not trying to start an inflamed discussion about which is the best device or manufacturer.
I’m not an Apple fan, in fact, I hate being “Apple locked” and that’s one of the main reasons I’ve bought the Leo after owning an Eten x500, a Kaiser, a Blackstone and finally, an iPhone 3GS.
I could go over and over describing the differences and the pros and cons of each device but I won’t. I’ll just try to tell you guys a few things we don’t have to accept.
We don’t have to accept …
the endless steps (gold card, hardSPL, regEdit, dictionary hacks, you name it) needed to get the phone speaking your language. You just have to say: I want “THAT” system language and “THAT” input language and that’s it. That’s how it’s done on the iPhone. And I’m not talking 3 or 4 languages. I’m saying over 30 different languages and oh, you also have voice control on YOUR language. You don’t need to hack Voice Command…
an SMS conversation that gets all messages out of order (doesn’t HTC know how to do time calculations?)
a Gigahert processor which can’t smoothly scroll a web page. I know it’s probably due to bad Opera coding but… have you ever scrolled an iPhone Safari?
a whole bunch of bad designed apps which you can’t effectively control / interface with because Windows Mobile programmers really don’t seem to realize that “user friendlier” is better. Have you ever used a same App on both platforms? Take Trapster for example (It’s available at Micrsoft app store). The windows mobile version of it makes me feel sorry for the programmer while the iPhone version feels very nice. Of course this is not the only example…
a lot of small bugs on the first ROM. Apple got it right on the first and they had never (ever) built a phone before! How many phones will HTC have to make before they get a stock ROM right? The small things are often the most annoying...
I could go on but there is something I realized that made me feel really hopeless (yes, I would really like to like a Windows phone). While HTC (and other manufacturers) keeps on launching device after device in a short time frame and thus creating new bugs and issues to deal with, Apple keeps on improving its one and only iPhone OS, for its one iPhone device (ok, different versions but very similar) which keeps getting better and better.
While iPhone developers have to deal with interface and compatibility issues for 3 very similar devices, a Windows Mobile developer has to deal with hundreds of them, some very poorly designed and a few very good (like Leo) but in the end, there is no way to develop a very good app for so many devices without a huge effort (and cost). Also, developing an App exclusively for one Windows phone wouldn’t be cost effective as a single model doesn’t represent a large enough consumer market.
Apple, with the iPhone, didn’t create a device as we are used to. Instead, they created a product with a long roadmap, mature SDK, sufficient market share, providing the necessary ecosystem for developers all around the world to make it even better.
It won’t be possible for any manufacturer, using any OS, to compete with such a mature product if they don’t realize it’s not a device we need. It’s a product.
Sadly, I’m going back to my 3GS… (god I hate iTunes…)
fmcastro said:
a lot of small bugs on the first ROM. Apple got it right on the first and they had never (ever) built a phone before! How many phones will HTC have to make before they get a stock ROM right? The small things are often the most annoying...
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Click to collapse
Couldn't agree more on that.. Actually some people believed that HTC guys were deaf to provide us with such a loud distorted audio quality. I can't forgive HTC for the SMS bug.. I can't load all my SMS, device becomes really really slow and laggy.. How come they did not run a proper test to ensure their HTC Messaging application was working fine with dozens of SMS? This is really unprofessional. What where they busy with? The weather animation?
HTC support will contact me today to collect some symptoms and bugs I found but they did NOT ( as they claimed ).
Hopefully a hotfix will be available ASAP.
Xeon said:
Couldn't agree more on that.. Actually some people believed that HTC guys were deaf to provide us with such a loud distorted audio quality. I can't forgive HTC for the SMS bug.. I can't load all my SMS, device becomes really really slow and laggy.. How come they did not run a proper test to ensure their HTC Messaging application was working fine with dozens of SMS? This is really unprofessional. What where they busy with? The weather animation?
HTC support will contact me today to collect some symptoms and bugs I found but they did NOT ( as they claimed ).
Hopefully a hotfix will be available ASAP.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, one thing we can safely assume by now is that no one at HTC actually uses their devices. Unless they are all deaf, send and receive SMSs only to/from their one and only imaginary friend and probably spend too much of their time watching the weather channel...
fmcastro said:
Well, one thing we can safely assume by now is that no one at HTC actually uses their devices. Unless they are all deaf, send and receive SMSs only to/from their one and only imaginary friend and probably spend too much of their time watching the weather channel...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Some bugs are bearable.. I had too many with all my previous XDA/HTC phones. But for such basic bugs to be found, the device primary tasks ( phone calls / SMS ) should never be affected because it makes the device useless...
fmcastro said:
the endless steps (gold card, hardSPL, regEdit, dictionary hacks, you name it) needed to get the phone speaking your language. You just have to say: I want “THAT” system language and “THAT” input language and that’s it. That’s how it’s done on the iPhone. And I’m not talking 3 or 4 languages. I’m saying over 30 different languages and oh, you also have voice control on YOUR language. You don’t need to hack Voice Command…
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Uh... you do realise that the reason these hacks exist is because the HD2 probably hasn't been officially launched in the country / language of your choice, and that people are hacking so they can use the HD2 in their country sooner than as decided by the carrier?
fmcastro said:
an SMS conversation that gets all messages out of order (doesn’t HTC know how to do time calculations?)
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Click to collapse
That's Microsoft's fault - having said that, I haven't had the problem with the HD2 itself - only the custom ROMS cooked with Leo packages on a Touch HD.
fmcastro said:
a whole bunch of bad designed apps which you can’t effectively control / interface with because Windows Mobile programmers really don’t seem to realize that “user friendlier” is better. Have you ever used a same App on both platforms? Take Trapster for example (It’s available at Micrsoft app store). The windows mobile version of it makes me feel sorry for the programmer while the iPhone version feels very nice. Of course this is not the only example…
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And this is more due to laziness on the developer's part and nothing to do with Windows MObile or the HD2 in general. Take a look at S2U2 - have you seen how nice the settings page is? Or GAlarm, *the* best alarm program ever.
fmcastro said:
a lot of small bugs on the first ROM. Apple got it right on the first and they had never (ever) built a phone before! How many phones will HTC have to make before they get a stock ROM right? The small things are often the most annoying...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agreed. Wish HTC would get their act together.
If you hate iTunes so much why not wait a few more months for the Xperia X10, running Android with Snapdragon? Or the Motorola DROID for that matter?
aussiebum said:
Uh... you do realise that the reason these hacks exist is because the HD2 probably hasn't been officially launched in the country / language of your choice, and that people are hacking so they can use the HD2 in their country sooner than as decided by the carrier?
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Click to collapse
Humm... not exactly. Most people here at XDA were trying to switch from an oficial ROM to another. That said, we're talking about official languages. I was trying to flash a WWE ROM on a french device for example. The HTC excuse for this terrible language mess is, of course, microsoft: "Unfortunately, due to licensing restrictions put in place by Microsoft, it is not legally possible for us the change the language of a device once it has been loaded" - Quoted from an HTC support email I received.
aussiebum said:
That's Microsoft's fault - having said that, I haven't had the problem with the HD2 itself - only the custom ROMS cooked with Leo packages on a Touch HD.
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Click to collapse
Do you realise it shouldn't matter whose fault it is? It's a faulty device sold by HTC, period. I don't feel any better knowing it's an OS fault.
aussiebum said:
And this is more due to laziness on the developer's part and nothing to do with Windows MObile or the HD2 in general. Take a look at S2U2 - have you seen how nice the settings page is? Or GAlarm, *the* best alarm program ever.
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Click to collapse
I know but I think it's a bit more complicated as I said on the original post. Besides the laziness, WM developers face a too heterogeneous ecossystem that makes things really harder. "Ok, I've finished my app, now I just have to port it to 640x480, 480x640, 480x800, 800x480, 320x200, and who knows what else, despite the fact that standard WM UIs are really crap so every developer has to start from scratch if they want to make something look good. In short, only a few very brave souls will be capable of that.
aussiebum said:
Agreed. Wish HTC would get their act together.
If you hate iTunes so much why not wait a few more months for the Xperia X10, running Android with Snapdragon? Or the Motorola DROID for that matter?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Because Android is not that good also. It seems like a better OS than WM but when it comes to user experience and, most important, a consistent user experience across all apps, it fails for the same reason WM fails. Lack of a product design and roadmap. It's just trying desperately to be installed on as most devices as it can.
Regards
And yet, the reasons people still use Winmo/Android is because the Iphone OS has serious deficiencies in some areas.
There is no perfect phone....all we can do is make the best of each OS.
Honestly you'd be better off with an iphone. I love my HD2 despite some minor problems, because I enjoy messing around with my phone. Also browsing the net on the HD2 is much faster than on the 3GS and you don't have to zoom in in order to read anything on the screen.
Let's not forget that the device is going to be upgradeable to winmo 7 as well.
Solution - keep HD2 and get ipod Touch - best of both worlds. Connect ipod via Wifi to HD2.
I owned iphone 3gs...
I read all you've been writing and i, as former iphone 3gs user, must say that everything you say is corect but... why don't you say to all of us why you gave up your iphone... or why you really hating go back to itunes... and of course why in the close future you'll give up again, and sell the iphone???
The answer, real answer is that with iPhone you have everything right in place as you say but there is no fun... no joy... like trying to have the best sex but not in the mood... if know what i mean...
I had moments when i pulled out my iphone, from my pocket, and i wanted to play arround with it and...come on, really boring!!!
Iphone is the best in terms of everyday use, but if wm 7 will get better in terms of use it's going to be a strong iphone killer!!!
I really like my HD2, in spite of all the hiccups, because it's fun, you can lose yourself for hours doing nothing but looking inside of it... settings, registry, HKLM, HKCU... does ring a bell, than entering here at xda and finding that someone did something and you hold your breath till you see if that is working or not...
I only say that i like playing... and HTC HD2 is giving me that!!! i don't need silly games to have fun from my device...
By the way...
No OS can have better handle of e-mail attachments than wm... for sure!!!
I HAVE NO REGRETS FOR SELLING IPHONE OVER HTC HD2!!!
Cheers!
jimbo29 said:
I really like my HD2, in spite of all the hiccups, because it's fun, you can lose yourself for hours doing nothing but looking inside of it... settings, registry, HKLM, HKCU... does ring a bell, than entering here at xda and finding that someone did something and you hold your breath till you see if that is working or not...
I only say that i like playing... and HTC HD2 is giving me that!!! i don't need silly games to have fun from my device...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for perfectly expressing my thoughts
Toss3 said:
Honestly you'd be better off with an iphone. I love my HD2 despite some minor problems, because I enjoy messing around with my phone. Also browsing the net on the HD2 is much faster than on the 3GS and you don't have to zoom in in order to read anything on the screen.
Let's not forget that the device is going to be upgradeable to winmo 7 as well.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I must say i have had an iphone 3g and i'm more happy with my HTC HD2. One of the reasons is because i simply think you pay way to much for the piece of hardware itself still no 5mpx camera while 8 is almost normal and 12 is high end. The new gs is worth more the money tough but the camera keeps me off and i kept hearing a annoying resonance while calling and the software isn't perfect as well and not that stable after a few days plus the battery life of the HTC HD2 is better as my iphone 3g and way better as the 3gs.
I like the default windows mobile software HTC Sense is annoying, camera flip, weather animations can't be turned off. Emails why show the email in the way it is shown now? i just rather had opened the whole email app so i can view the emails like your supposed to and not like a letter.
While calling you have to slide to get the extra options, why? there is a hang up button on screen wich you can press so why not the other buttons?
HTC tried to make a nice looking skin but not a functional one.
I use the default titanium skin with some modifications like a task manager added to the options and msn and the camera. But the apps for calling and the communications manager work great.
About windows mobile 7:
Windows mobile can be great. But i still have the idea they haven't learned from their mistakes. Look at the buttons a phone is supposed to have according to microsoft for windows mobile 7. a Pickup, a home, a start, a back and a hang up button. Why so many? Home and start could be one, 1 press to go home another to go to start and press again to go home again, simple and effective. Why a back button? when would you use that? Press the home button and your back in the home screen and applications usually have their own back button when needed. So pick-up home and hang-up would have been enough. Since Microsoft asks for these buttons they still think to complicated and i bet windows 7 will to complicated as well all though it will be more complete compared to 6.x.
But i love how i can change things to the user interface and multitasking is great, the iphone can't do that by default and that really sucks. And backgrounder that does make it possible, makes the phone more unstable as a windows mobile one. It is stupid windows mobile doesn't use it's greatest advantage for marketing and battling the iphone with it, this is where windows mobile could stand out with.
I'm writing this from my macbook on os x snow leopard and even i still prefer my windows mobile HTC HD2.
Windows Mobile 7 will simply use CE7 Kernel, compiled for new ARM CPUs and will use the new ARM instructions.
Now we're running Windows Mobile 6.5 that runs on CE5.2 kernel.
It's like running Windows98 on a Phenom X4 quadcore CPU
Even on other MSM chipsets that has got an ARM11 CPU, that potential isn't seen because of that.
When WM7 will be released, we'll see our device performance unleashed
I've had my HD2 for a week now and I must say I'm more than pleased with it. I did consider the iPhone as an option, but as I want to connect my phone to my Exchange Server then it was a no brainer to opt for a Windows Phone and the hardware specs of the HD2 are way above the iPhone. A big thing that put me off the iPhone was it's reliance upon iTunes to synchronise my calendar & contacts - it's dreadfully buggy toy software and I don't want a music application on my work PC.
If anyone has any doubts as to the iPhone's reliability and stability just Google "iPhone faults" and you'll see the problems users have experienced with their iPhones are considerable, with many being bricked through their hardware faults. Interestingly the most common reported faults are similar to those reported by the HTC dissenters such as slow SMS sending - maybe these are network issues? On top of that there's now the 'Astley' virus which Apple helpfully explain away as "the users' fault".
The emergence of open source Android phones whill hopefully spur the mainstream smartphone OS writers to concentrate their efforts on developing their own platforms. It's true to say that Microsoft haven't trerated their Windows OS as a mainstream product and there's still too much legacy code in 6.5, but it's still a decent OS for its intended purpose Hopefully that will be addressed in Version 7 which looks likely to be available to HD2 users as an (free?) upgrade. There's masses of quality third-party apps avaiable to maximise its smartphone potential for just about all users,.
There isn't a perfect smartphone out there and as we demand ever more features of them I doubt if there is likely to be in the forseable future, but the nice thing about the Windows Phone OS is that it is eminently hackable.
HD2 Simply Put...
Depth & Customization!
iphone got it right???
I remember hearing complaints about iphone for at least the first year, and as omneity says:
"If anyone has any doubts as to the iPhone's reliability and stability just Google "iPhone faults" and you'll see the problems users have experienced with their iPhones are considerable, with many being bricked through their hardware faults. Interestingly the most common reported faults are similar to those reported by the HTC dissenters such as slow SMS sending - maybe these are network issues? On top of that there's now the 'Astley' virus which Apple helpfully explain away as 'the users' fault' ".
fmcastro said:
We don’t have to accept …
5. a lot of small bugs on the first ROM. Apple got it right on the first and they had never (ever) built a phone before! How many phones will HTC have to make before they get a stock ROM right? The small things are often the most annoying...
Sadly, I’m going back to my 3GS… (god I hate iTunes…)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
p.s. I am a former Apple user. Iphone is more of Jobs' controlled user experience.
I couldn't stand it.
I find it ironic that Apple started out supporting open source while Gates worked hard at controlling users choice.
Now it is the reverse.
New things r always trapped in some trouble, and that's why i have paid close attention to leo, but i didn't buy it! im just waiting for a staid one.
To put it simply - the HD2 is the best phone I have ever used. I think it is awesome. I've had an iphone, etc - but the truth is there is no phone that hasn't got problems. The Iphone is falwed because it has no multi-tasking, crap camera, poor messaging (in my opinion), limited configurability, and its tied to iTunes which is horrible. The HD2 has non of the above. Yes it has flaws itself, but in my eyes less than any other phone out there at the moment.
Teneka_Khan said:
To put it simply - the HD2 is the best phone I have ever used. I think it is awesome. I've had an iphone, etc - but the truth is there is no phone that hasn't got problems. The Iphone is falwed because it has no multi-tasking, crap camera, poor messaging (in my opinion), limited configurability, and its tied to iTunes which is horrible. The HD2 has non of the above. Yes it has flaws itself, but in my eyes less than any other phone out there at the moment.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I FULLY agree with you ; I also have a iphone 3G 16 GB but is now in the drawer collecting dust. As saying goes, One man's meat is another man poison . No point debating about how good/bad the HD2 and iPhone and any other PDA. It will never end
As far as I am concerned , the HD2 is my choice now vs iPhone
gavinfabl said:
Solution - keep HD2 and get ipod Touch - best of both worlds. Connect ipod via Wifi to HD2.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yep, I totally agree...and that's just what i've now done
I see lots of people say when windows mobile 7 goes on our device it will be unbeatable, why is this? I dont really see much wrong with this one lol
hammers4life said:
I see lots of people say when windows mobile 7 goes on our device it will be unbeatable, why is this? I dont really see much wrong with this one lol
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't know about unbeatable but WM7 has gone through several delays as I'm sure Microsoft is aware that they are standing on there last leg to keep there (9%) of there mobile market shares, so......
...if Microsoft is smart, and it looks like they seem to be (delays signify that WM7 is not quite ready and thus, not rushing it), it should be a much improved Operating System as it has to compete against Symbian and Apple's and blackberry.
Market Shares:
Symbian....50.3%
Blackberry..20.9%
Iphone........13.7%
Windows.......9.0%
Andriod.......2.8%
WM 6.5 was was not even supposed to have existed but due to the delays, 6.5 was nothing more than a stand in, holding it's place for what some have anticipated to be revolutionary OS. Not sure if they will push through with that term when it actually comes out of the gates. Time will tell...
There isn't too much wrong with this one. Windows Mobile 6.5 is by far the most powerful mobile OS and it's getting bashed just because it lacks a nice and simple user interface.
Windows Mobile 7 will bring a new, hopefully exciting, user interface, probably based on Silverlight, new APIs for developers to create great applications that look and work much better than what we have now and better integration with Microsoft's services (Zune, XBox, Windows Live, Bing...).
On the other side, it will probably break compatibility with most, if not all, currently available applications.
freyberry said:
On the other side, it will probably break compatibility with most, if not all, currently available applications.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And I think it should. The past should be scrapped to create a new future. Like OS9 to OSX and PalmOS to WebOS. Bring emulation if really needed.
Don't forget the new core of the CE which will fully support the new fast processors. That means we get an even faster phone.
windows 7 base on ce 6.0 core so ther wont be any backward compatibility.
Probably new core will be much stable and faster (support for FPU) and some othre stuff.
will windows mobile 7 be freely avalible on hd2? some sites are saying yes and others are saying no. it is my understanding that wm 6.5 and wm7 will co-exist, with wm7 aimed at high end devices (i assume because of the higher system requirements). would be good if HTC gave the hd2 wm7, as it would really open up the device in terms of performance and features.
matthewharmon102 said:
will windows mobile 7 be freely avalible on hd2?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nobody knows yet.
My guess is that there will not be an official HTC release of it, for the same reason as there hasn't been any official WM6.5 upgrade for the Touch HD - WM7 is due to launch at about the same time as the successor to the HD2 (Q4 this year), and allowing HD2 users to upgrade easily to WM7 would cannibalise sales of the HD3 (or whatever it's called); HTC would obviously prefer people who want to upgrade to WM7 to buy a new HTC phone to do it.
I've no doubt that attempts will be made by the ROM "chefs" on this site to produce "cooked" ROMs for the HD2 based on WM7. However, this may be a much tricker proposition than, say, producing a WM6.5 ROM for a Touch HD, as WM7 is based on an entirely different Operating System kernel and uses a new driver model. That means that unless there is some reference device which uses exactly the same hardware as the HD2 and runs WM7 and whose drivers the ROM chefs can pirate, it's not going to work.
Article released today, brought to my attention by a friend.
http://apcmag.com/microsoft-no-windows-phone-7-upgrade-for-windows-mobile-6x-devices.htm
What do you think?
morpheus1982 said:
Article released today, brought to my attention by a friend.
http://apcmag.com/microsoft-no-windows-phone-7-upgrade-for-windows-mobile-6x-devices.htm
What do you think?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Tip for HTC disable 2 buttons with a upgrade ... lol
Just another example of M$ shafting existing customers, to make them buy a new phone. And I find that quote saying that the HD2 doesn't have certain hardware components to meet the spec, sounds like a crock to me.
Hopefully someone with skill can graft a WinMo 7 on to the HD2, while M$ is too lazy to do it.
That I frankly don't care, I got my HD2 for what it is and not what it possibly could be.
And that for those who are dying for it there's certainly a >50% chance that even if it doesnt come officially, someone on here will hack it. We have 2004 devices originally on PocketPC2003 running WM6.5 today, and having unofficially made all the steps inbetween... that's definitely very far from what they were originally intended for.
wtff?? just because the htc hd2 doesn't have the three buttons is not getting the wm7s upgrade? Microsoft just scuppered future sales of the hd2 by doing this, i have my doubts now if ill buy it or not!
I don't see how the buttons would be the issue...
Call can stays the same
Hang-up stays the same
Back stays the same
Home makes it go back to the windows panels
Windows could be the dedicated search button
I think HTC can upgrade if they wanted to, it just comes down to some executive saying yes/no for money reasons
kilrah said:
That I frankly don't care, I got my HD2 for what it is and not what it possibly could be.
And that for those who are dying for it there's certainly a >50% chance that even if it doesnt come officially, someone on here will hack it. We have 2004 devices originally on PocketPC2003 running WM6.5 today, and having unofficially made all the steps inbetween... that's definitely very far from what they were originally intended for.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, that would even be better. A WinPhone with 5 buttons, what do you think about that!!
No, just kidding. I think you're right. The HD2 is really well designed. If HTC would just maintain the OS and update the Sense interface on the go, that would be really fine by me.
WinPhone is something for the future, far far ahead. (First wait for the first Winnie-the-Pho 7 generation, then get one when WinPhone 8 comes kicking in)
I'm not too surprised and not really disappointed. WP7 is looking way too closed for me. I would have given it a try, if the HD2 was upgradeable, but instead I will switch right to an android device (or hopefully there will be an [inofficial] upgrade for the HD2). Looking at the latest handsets with the latest 2.1 version, I really don't see why I should stick with Microsoft, which are screwing their current customers, who kept WM alive.
I wouldn't give too much about this article. Until now WP7 is by far not released and M$ often told a lot of tings that never came true. The funny thing about that company is the fact, that nobody knows ho is really able to give an official statement. I think you will be able to find more then 10 "official" statements by some M$-people about WP7 within the next months...
And about the THREE buttons - what should that mean? Does WP7 not allow QWERTY-phones? If that was true they would just lose lots of business-users that simply want to have HW-keyboard....
Im not fussed about whether HD2 gets an upgrade or not.
WHat i am fussed about (if this is true) is the fact that MS will insist upon each of their WP7 series devices having ONLY 3 buttons and no more.
That would truly suck. Having their 3 buttons makes sense but the restriction for putting any more hardware keys onto a device does not.
I guess i will now seriously be thinking about android for my next device.
Who the hell said that any WP7S device is not allowed to have more than 3 buttons? Right, nobody..
How can they say that this phone dont have what they want?
It has everything except the frontfacing cam that they will use for commands like waving your hand over your phone. (that wont work in darkness)
Anyway not that i would want WP7 since it looks like crap.
And wm6.x will become classic for budget users? wtf? wp7 looks more budget to me :\
Audio Oblivion said:
Im not fussed about whether HD2 gets an upgrade or not.
WHat i am fussed about (if this is true) is the fact that MS will insist upon each of their WP7 series devices having ONLY 3 buttons and no more.
That would truly suck. Having their 3 buttons makes sense but the restriction for putting any more hardware keys onto a device does not.
I guess i will now seriously be thinking about android for my next device.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As senseless as it may sound in this discussion, I actually think that it makes sense that Microsoft is constraining phone-makers. I think they should strive for a uniform product. That would be a very good answer to apple and in the end will serve the user better. Now, the user have to choose between a myriad of devices that only on the surface differ from each other. Maybe, when there's just one hardware standard we can look for:
a) a better integration of software and hardware (like the iPhone)
b) a better way to compare several devices
c) a broader platform of third party accessoiries producers
But it would be great if in the meantime there will be still a WM 6.5(.x) platform that is highly customizable by phone-makers. Then we can look forward to two types of Windows Mobile devices: 1. a standard WinPhone and 2. a customized Windows Mobile based phone that each have their own interfaces.
appelflap said:
As senseless as it may sound in this discussion, I actually think that it makes sense that Microsoft is constraining phone-makers. I think they should strive for a uniform product. That would be a very good answer to apple and in the end will serve the user better. Now, the user have to choose between a myriad of devices that only on the surface differ from each other. Maybe, when there's just one hardware standard we can look for:
a) a better integration of software and hardware (like the iPhone)
b) a better way to compare several devices
c) a broader platform of third party accessoiries producers
But it would be great if in the meantime there will be still a WM 6.5(.x) platform that is highly customizable by phone-makers. Then we can look forward to two types of Windows Mobile devices: 1. a standard WinPhone and 2. a customized Windows Mobile based phone that each have their own interfaces.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
WM6.5.x will still exist alongside WP7... this is a given.
The problem is... for how long? In my opinion... i cant see it being all that long at all... developers will obviously want to port their apps to the newer platform asap. Once this happens... to an extent its game over for 6.5.x
I like your points about how a uniform product can be a good thing... and i agree with having a hardware standard. However... extending the hardware standard to include how many buttons you can put on a device makes no sense to me whatsoever. What if i want to make a device that has a dpad? or trackball? optical mouse? etc etc.... even a simply volume rocker? is this allowed?
Some one needs to clear this up.
derScheich said:
Who the hell said that any WP7S device is not allowed to have more than 3 buttons? Right, nobody..
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Click to collapse
FTA: the phone will be ruled out for the simple reason that it has five buttons instead of the three mandated for all Windows Phone 7 devices.
General Manager for Microsoft’s Mobile Communications Business in the Asia-Pacific region, told APC that the HD2 “doesn’t qualify because it doesn’t have the three buttons”.
I'm sure XDA-Devs will do it ourselves like we seemingly have to do for everything, as the saying goes "if you want something done properly, do it yourself", we have with everything else in the past and I am sure we will with WindowsPhone7Series
derScheich said:
Who the hell said that any WP7S device is not allowed to have more than 3 buttons? Right, nobody..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
you watched the wp7s introduction video? i don't think so .
btw. i don't get it. every time anybody asks microsoft about upgrade on the HD2 they just point to come to the mix. I don't think that at the mix they'll just say "no we won't upgrade". Doesn't make any sense; why don't they just say "no" right now? and i don't think that they would say "no" to upgrade right before the US HD2 launch.
shu8i said:
you watched the wp7s introduction video? i don't think so .
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The whole show, my friend can you give me the exact quote, which says that no more than 3 buttons are allowed? And what about this?
http://www.engadget.com/2010/02/27/exclusive-lgs-windows-phone-7-series-early-prototype-unveiled/
Is it just me, or are there more than just 3 buttons?
derScheich said:
The whole show, my friend can you give me the exact quote, which says that no more than 3 buttons are allowed? And what about this?
http://www.engadget.com/2010/02/27/exclusive-lgs-windows-phone-7-series-early-prototype-unveiled/
Is it just me, or are there more than just 3 buttons?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i don't have the link now, since i watched it live. if you send me a link of the video i will show you that Joe Belfiore explicitly said that wp7s devices will have 3 buttons . and the link you posted above will be the first wp7s device from LG with 3!!! buttons on the bottom. if you see more than 3, i'll need glases
Seems all to strange to me...... it's like saying that "you can't upgrade your PC to windows 7 because you have to many buttons on the case or too many usb ports"
Anyway, things may well change between now and release.... (here's hoping)
Well we could go down the iphone users route and demand a free upgrade to a new handset because there is a new Os out........ lol
i know im not the only one that thinks this....i love new features and upgrades just as much as anyone but it seems the goal of windows 7 is to take away the customization experience of windows and bring consumers closer with microsoft then closer 2 their device. No flash, No skins, limited apps, and lets be honest who wants a device that looks exactly the same as another person device, u could take a million hd2 and none will look exactly like mines
jbanga86 said:
i know im not the only one that thinks this....i love new features and upgrades just as much as anyone but it seems the goal of windows 7 is to take away the customization experience of windows and bring consumers closer with microsoft then closer 2 their device. No flash, No skins, limited apps, and lets be honest who wants a device that looks exactly the same as another person device, u could take a million hd2 and none will look exactly like mines
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I say save these comments till after it comes out and you actually use it.
And it's Windows Phone 7 Series, not Windows 7.
dwizzy130
anything short of 5 pages and this thread will be a failure!
dwizzy130 said:
I say save these comments till after it comes out and you actually use it.
And it's Windows Phone 7 Series, not Windows 7.
dwizzy130
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'd agree if it was for ALL comments on the awesomeness OR failure of WP7s.
lol all im saying is if we wanted a zune we would buy a zune!
seriously ever since the thing came out they been talking about
making it a phone and now this is new news?
psht! they have a few ideas on point though like the whole
finger friendly thing, but to me its like buying a new house
with thin walls or move into a comfy old brick home
yeah the lighting fixtures is up to date but what about the foundation
I love the new interface. I love the accent that is being layed on the text. From what i've seen it's like browsing through a magazine. Well thought, because in the end, mostly it's text with what you're dealing with on this type of devices.
No really, i'm very thrilled about the new design. And with the new silverlight based development framework I think that we can expect more useful applications that are focussed on what they are supposed to do and less on the user interface.
The UI is awesome. Other than that, it's just an iPhone copy with the same bad policies, like censorship and no multitasking, no file system access etc.
seed_al said:
The UI is awesome. Other than that, it's just an iPhone copy with the same bad policies, like censorship and no multitasking, no file system access etc.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
WP7S, No cutomizability, locked eco system, no multi tasking.
Dont u think it defeats the purpose of WinMO.
I hope it will be a big failure. The reason i got WinMO instead of anything else is because of the power of freedom it has. WP7S killed that.
and yes, its just as hyped up as iphone before it was release. NOthing more. Its not revolutionary, its just pretty with no brain.
The start or home screen may look pretty, but its functionless. U have to scroll a lot to see info. I think the novelty will wear off faster then the iphone.
Good post, Frostlance, very good post... it's sad how they destroyed everything good about Windows Mobile. I'm not at all interested in a stupid locked down system.
seed_al said:
Good post, Frostlance, very good post... it's sad how they destroyed everything good about Windows Mobile. I'm not at all interested in a stupid locked down system.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And not only that, they way they made WP7S Backwards incompatible also means MS just killed WinMO6.5 and previous versions.
Developers are abandoning WinMO 6.5 1 by 1, started with adobe , then Skype, and many more to come.
We were waiting for Flash 10.1 anxiously, seeing the beta version test on OUR HD2, but in the end, they discontinued their support for WinMO.
As Steve Ballmer Said " OS are nothing without Developers, Developers Developers , (he goes on saying developers many2 times)
And that is the fate of WinMO 6.5. With no Developer support, Our BELOVED OS, is becoming NOthing.
To tell you the truth,ive been a loyal WinMO user since 2000. I relied heavily on its apps (esp medical applications,helps me a lot with my work as a doctor and manage my patients data). Now ive heard from a friend in skyscape,a major medical apps developer for WinMO, that they will also discontinue support for WinMO. Now this really saddens me really.
For a phone(expensive phone in fact) which i bought just 2 months ago, will no longer provide me new apps, new updates to my medical apps, no flash (A BIG WASTE , With our huge gorgeous screen,we cant even load flash content!).
I envy those using android, updating their OS constantly, and getting apps like google earth,goggle and etc which we were once promised to be given,now all left is a dream.
MS has killed our beloved WinMO. It is a sad news for all of us. WP7S is more like a curse then a blessing.
I'd rather buy an iPhone than any WP7S device.
Both are locked down crap systems without multitasking from my POV.
Espentf said:
I'd rather buy an iPhone than any WP7S device.
Both are locked down crap systems without multitasking from my POV.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But WP7S has better hardware and a better UI. So, IF you buy a locked down crap system, you really should get a WP7S phone.
But of course, you shouldn't buy a locked down crap system.
seed_al said:
But WP7S has better hardware
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Do we know enough about the iPhone 4 to be sure that its hardware will be inferior to WP7S phones? We'll be about half way between that and its replacement when WP7 starts to get going.
Shasarak said:
Do we know enough about the iPhone 4 to be sure that its hardware will be inferior to WP7S phones? We'll be about half way between that and its replacement when WP7 starts to get going.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
We know nothing about iPhone 4, but Apple's iPhone hardware has ALWAYS been at least half a year behind HTC's. I don't expect that to change.
iPhone 4 would need a WVGA display, a 1GHz processor, 448MB RAM, a five megapixel camera with dual LED flash, much much better materials... in order to be "only" half a year behind again. In other words: No way. They're not going to catch up anytime soon.
seed_al said:
We know nothing about iPhone 4, but Apple's iPhone hardware has ALWAYS been at least half a year behind HTC's. I don't expect that to change.
iPhone 4 would need a WVGA display, a 1GHz processor, 448MB RAM, a five megapixel camera with dual LED flash, much much better materials... in order to be "only" half a year behind again. In other words: No way. They're not going to catch up anytime soon.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The strange thing is that if the WP7 is really a closed down system without multitasking it would not need such advanced hardware for it. The need of so much memory and processor power is precisely because of the multitasking when a user can run several applications simultaneously. Otherwise you can have a good user experience with much less memory and processor power like in case of the iPhone.
This thread will be better if it has a poll on it.
I think it is hyped too. I really prefer the HTC interface and customization freedom of the HD2 against the new design of windows mobile 7. I have my device so customized that I can access every feature with a few clicks (AE button plus and multiple button press) I dont see that coming soon in WM7, you need to scroll a lot with your finger to actually go anywhere. And what botters me more is that it looks like "multimedia oriented" and not "bussisness" oriented.
If they close the platform like Apple they will loose al the support of the comunity. I really think WebOs look more interesting as a new modern platform (but they still lack variety of applications)
If there is no oficial WM7 update to the HD2, I really dont care. (we know the chef here will be realising it and even with a newer rom)
What not being said may be the most revealing.
Other than a few picture and limited stories from just a few people (MS insiders) what do we really know about WM7?
With all the stories about what WM7 cannot do, you start to wonder if there is something that we are not being told about the new OS.
For instance:
* MS Voice Command has not had any real updates for a number of years. Is there a (much improved) new version in WM7?
* Wireless/Blue tooth set up? (better setup etc?)
* Haptic interface,
* camera and other elements used in a more interactive way for interface?
* New/updated/Improved version of transcriber?
Or is MS really just going to bring out a dumb version of Windows Mobile, for the dummys, and to more directly compete with iPhone, and continue the development of the OS version (6.5) they already have for the business users, and the more adventurous?
We still remember XP/Vista don't we, lets hope MS learn't something!
No option for both? I think bits are great and bits are over hyped.
1) Maybe it´s going to be the same story as with Win Vista: faulty, crappy, resource-hungry, no benefits. Good for the basic user that only surfs with IE, listens to music, watches videos, e-mails and uploads videos on YouTube
2) NO software is uncrackable ! Wonder what the experts here on XDA will do with WM7 ! When I received my HD2 in November it wasn´t much more than my Touch HD, a little bit faster though. Now with all the geniousses here in this forum it is a rocket of a PDA that spared me the investment into a Sony Vaio P
3) I eagerly wait for the HD3 at the end of the year, wait this time some months ´till I buy it. First I will see what the leading programmers here will do with it, then buy it and flash it with a cooked ROM from this forum. And maybe this cooked ROM will be rebased on WM6.5.x or a hacked WM7, able of multitasking.
4) When I will buy HD3 (or whatever it will be called) I buy the hardware (1,5 GHz Qualcomm, ROM/RAM etc.) and I want it to be FAST. Like with Win Vista the hardware will be eaten up by WM7-software giving no speed advantage. Like with my Sony Vaio TT92 which is equipped with WinXP and which is much faster than most of the desktop-PCs for MY use of the Vaio (no gaming, prof. medical work) I will rely on the experts here to cook a ROM that´s faster than lightning for the APPS, ´cause I don´t care if the basic software is WM6.5.x or WM7, TF3D, HTCSense or what, I want my preferred apps to run fast and smooth w/o hangup.
Conclusion: trust the people here, THEY will make the best outa the new HARDWARE, not HTC, not Microsoft ..........
gm_fisher said:
Or is MS really just going to bring out a dumb version of Windows Mobile, for the dummys, and to more directly compete with iPhone, and continue the development of the OS version (6.5) they already have for the business users, and the more adventurous?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm afraid that's exactly what they are doing. Everyone - including MS - is green with envy for the zillion$$$ Apple are making with teenagers and "wanna-look-cool" adults who spend their time on social networks or mms-ing pictures. Little brains, fat wallets. No surprise manufacturers and carriers LOVE them and would do ANYTHING to please them.
MS had a decision to make: continue to fight on two fields (business and dummies) and continue losing to RIM on the former and to Apple on the latter? Or instead concentrate on one, playing the cards (like hardware) where the competition has always been behind?
WPS7 is just that.
Do I like it? Hell, no.
Would I have done the same thing had I been in Steve Ballmer's shoes? Probably yes.
Will their strategy succeed? Probably no. Unless Steve Jobs screws up big-time...
gm_fisher said:
We still remember XP/Vista don't we, lets hope MS learn't something!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Looking at Win7, I think they learnt that crappy-buggy OS's should never ever make their way into the market. However keeping looking at Win7 on other PC's makes me wish I will still have the option for XP when my laptop replacement is due in June.
I don't think MS will be stupid enough to allow WPS7 to be crappy-buggy like Vista, but most likely WPS7 will be as alienating to business users as Win7 is, leaving them in fact with two choices:
a) BlackBerry (for most)
b) Android (for power users)
Actually there is a third one for the (very few) adventurous: cooked WinMo ROMs.
I found this rather bad article whilst going through some arc pictures on Flickr.......
http://zomgitscj.com/2011/05/15/analyst-wp7-to-beat-android-by-2013-not-2015/
while i thinks it's quite possible because of Nokia's humongous market share in asia,wat do you guys think???
nah....i thinks is a joke....not overtake....
the term is compete.....i think people will prefer "free"
than all that WP have is "paid"....my opinion only...
forever android for me....
Android for life, no matter what.
I don't think WP7 will overtake android as WP7 is made out of mostly high end devices, and android has all sorts of devices. So the situation is like android vs iOS.
Won't happen...
Wp7 has none of the appeal of android, it will stay a niche product...
Wp7 sucks imo.
Just because Nokia decided to plump for WP7 doesn't mean their market share will help boost the market share of WP7. Let's be honest here, WP7 is a pile of **** so if anything it will just give Nokia a slap for making the wrong choice of mobile OS. I'd say by 2015 Nokia will have taken a pounding as their customer base leaves in droves to one of their Android competators.
there is no change in hell
google does knows exactly what to do
2013? Considering that Nokia won't have their first WP7 phone until late this year or early 2012, I doubt it.
But will WP7 make a dent by 2015? I'm sure it will. Nokia has said that they will start pushing it out to mid level devices (which will probably be the current scorpion chipset on smaller sized/res screens with the high end phones using a newer chipset). And if there's one thing Nokia can do, is flood the market with multiple phones.
Their developer tools are really good, xbox live mobile games are very good, the eventual inclusion of Ovi maps and Nokia hardware appears to be a good combination. The number of apps haven't been great but I was browsing their marketplace a couple days ago and found 3 new apps that i've been using on my x10.
Also, google hasn't been the white knight here and have appeared to irritate motorola and samsung (skyhook thing). Those documents showed how reliant moto is on Android - it doesn't surprise me that they're working on a lower end OS like Samsung (w/ their Bada OS).
However, Android will continue to get better (we'll see how the phone interface looks for 3.1) and iOS is branching out to more providers (coming to tmo usa and sprint soon). Not to mention that RIM is really pushing hard.
In all honesty, if Nokia releases a WP7 with the N8 12 mp sensor/optics/xeon flash (but no bulge)... I may have to follow my wife's lead and switch. It helps to remain subjective. Either way, if WP7 starts doing great, it just means that Android's improvement will accelerate.
Once WP7 starts releasing phones with better cameras and better video recording....goodbye to android for me in a heartbeat.
Sent from my X10a using XDA App
Mr Patchy Patch said:
Once WP7 starts releasing phones with better cameras and better video recording....goodbye to android for me in a heartbeat.
Sent from my X10a using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
the big long drawn out animations to cover up lag don't do it for me..
I think android, especially once it matures a bit more, will probably be a frontrunner for a very long time
Unless they support usb mode for file storage needs and no mandatory tethering to zune for media upload on the device I'll stay away. This is my biggest gripe with iOS currently. iPhone 4 is ready to be sold as soon as sgs2 hits Canada.
But I have more faith in MS+Nokia compared to Apple. If WP7or WP8 does open things a little bit, I won't mind. Nokia makes great hardware. It's Apple I think who will stubbornly stay on their old ways forever.
fiscidtox said:
the big long drawn out animations to cover up lag don't do it for me..
I think android, especially once it matures a bit more, will probably be a frontrunner for a very long time
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I wouldnt doubt that for a second. But for my personal preference, WP7 is excellent and I find it more enjoyable than android....just need Nokia or someone to bring out some good cameras before I would ever leave android.
Sent from my X10a using XDA App
Currently WP7 doesn't have 3G hotspot support while X10 will get it in 3 months.
Moreover, WP7 is extremely picky on memory card, so this is NOT an option for me.
mingkee said:
Currently WP7 doesn't have 3G hotspot support while X10 will get it in 3 months.
Moreover, WP7 is extremely picky on memory card, so this is NOT an option for me.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I had no problem at all with my sdcard in my samsung focus. The people who didnt seem to format them properly before inserting them did have issues however.
Sent from my X10a using XDA App
mingkee said:
Currently WP7 doesn't have 3G hotspot support while X10 will get it in 3 months.
Moreover, WP7 is extremely picky on memory card, so this is NOT an option for me.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Possibly
Sent from my X10i using XDA App
Currently WP7 isn't ready for me because:
No 3G hotspot: though I don't use it much, it's handy when I use laptop on the bus or the main internet is down.
Limited audio format support: more than 80% of my music library uses ogg vorbis format and currently I don't see any 3rd party player support this; in addition, other than streaming wma/wmv, I don't see any streaming mp3 application yet.
WP7 can display Far East language out of the box like iphone and Android, but I have to wait a couple more years to see the evolution (and probably Android 4 Jellybean will be out by then).
I got a used HD2 just for the purpose of testing WP7 and GOD NO, I hated just about everything about it. Having to use PC software to put any files on it just sucks. I flashed WM6.5 back on it but then decided that I might as well have two Android phones. So, X10 with Froyo MIUI and the HD2 with GB MIUI. Love them both.
I think this will never happen if WP7 won't change its whole structure.
I can just speak for Germany, but if you see which devices are preferred by ppl:
Just smatphones:
1.) Android & iOS
2.) BB RiM
3.) still Symbian
4.) WP7
WP7 was nearly dead before it was published. Also many Germans don't like Nokia anymore after they closed the fabrics here: many ppl lost their jobs and nokia built new factorys with the money they got from the country :'(
But thats just another point which leads me personally to the decicision that "I WILL NEVER BUY A NOKIA AGAIN"
Let's think this way: Nokias smartphones are nearly dead and simply not serving what ppl want this days.
WP7 is nearly dead too and doing just the same, ppl want to customize their phones and install many many apps etc. etc. They want a cute homescreen, big displays and the variety of devices. (Or they want a Apple product, just because it's apple )
So if you put this 2 products together:
Nokia + WP7 = "dead" + "nearly dead before release"
what will you get ?
dead + dead != superb
dead + dead == really dead
But that's just my point of view! Let's see what the future brings.
But what i can say is that i always see people looking at different devices in Shops and i see them mostly buy Androids.
On Saturday i was in the shopping mall and in one of the bigger electronic shops.
I saw a woman playing with an HD7, after a short while she took the DHD and said: "Wow this is much nicer, but it's almost the same device" !! And this is not the first time is see a behaiviour like this between WP7 and Android.
So now you can think yourself, if a standard customer behaves like this, how they want to be big together on this base ?
Also a nice point PRO Android: The german government decided to take a special customized Android System as the new platform for secure communication between members of the higher government levels!
The choice was between: stay with Nokia, go to WinMo or Android. They decided for Android.
You can read yourself, but you must take a online translator, because this article is in german (of course)
http://www.zdnet.de/sicherheits_ana...n_android_handy_story-39001544-41549815-1.htm
That's all from me now
Regards
Bin4ry
I love android, don't get me wrong, but WP7 will very likely pick up a nice chunk of the market..
WP7 and the various other versions that will come after will only keep getting better.
The operating system is actually good and getting better, and the minimum specs that WP7 requires of the manufactures insures that you won't get a lemon.
Updates are "supposed" to cover all the phones at the same time and make it seamless for the customers.
It's also Microsoft that were talking about, even if they lose money year after year, they'll just keep going! So is WP7 dead? Right now, perhaps.
But it'll get better and it's backed by Nokia and Microsoft, two HUGE companies with loads of cash.
I'm still rooting for Android!
rogem_kk said:
I got a used HD2 just for the purpose of testing WP7 and GOD NO, I hated just about everything about it. Having to use PC software to put any files on it just sucks. I flashed WM6.5 back on it but then decided that I might as well have two Android phones. So, X10 with Froyo MIUI and the HD2 with GB MIUI. Love them both.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The storage partition on the device is only hidden and there is a registry hack that unhides it so it can be accessed just like any other mass storage device, but this is far from an ideal solution when it should be implimented as a matter of course. Only caveat is that you must have Zune installed but this would likely be the case anyway.
Mr Patchy Patch said:
I wouldnt doubt that for a second. But for my personal preference, WP7 is excellent and I find it more enjoyable than android....just need Nokia or someone to bring out some good cameras before I would ever leave android.
Sent from my X10a using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
same here. wp7 makes you realize how peiced together android really is.