Related
Dunno what people's beef is on here ?
Yes there are new members and so on, but some of the foul mouthed attacks I have seen here is disgraceful.
If your mother/wife/daughter or whatever logged on here would you want her to be subjected to such abuse ? No? Thought so!
Tone it down please - if you don't have anything constructive to add to a post, don't bother.
If it makes you feel better about yourself because you feel superior as you know more about HTC/Windows mobile etc. than other people - go back to your ZX81 or whatever but please stop the swearing and nastiness.
Sorry, just never seen such animosity on a forum in my life!
I wish I could say I feel your pain man, but I am a noob as well however I feel the more seasoned vets on here are just tired of the same stupid repetitive questions typically posted by none other than us new guys. I am not saying its right but the way I see it, its kinda like having a little brother or sister that keeps asking the same question over and over and over again while your trying to get something done. My occupation is sales and has been for almost a decade and the first thing I always try and do is look at something from all sides. In doing this it A) Makes me do a search before asking and B) Not feel as bad if I get checked by someone. Just my .42. Additionally I have found if I really cannot find something then I will pm someone I feel is approachable and let them educate me.
From what I have seen lately, the "abuse" has toned down big time around here, were you recently flamed or something, that made you think this?
donzx6 said:
If your mother/wife/daughter or whatever logged on here would you want her to be subjected to such abuse ? No? Thought so!
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Click to collapse
bit sexist
Truly!
ChaoticDruid said:
From what I have seen lately, the "abuse" has toned down big time around here, were you recently flamed or something, that made you think this?
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Click to collapse
I agree. The replies on this site have become MUCH more mature, helpful, and professional in the last few weeks.
I hope you're not referring to 'now' ... or maybe you're reading through the historical posts to avoid getting flamed.
This is another reason why, no matter how many times a question's been asked, the old-timers should carefully think about the legacy their words will leave behind on these forums.
I find the repeated questions unbearable sometimes, too. But the historical traces of the blatant abusive and immature replies will live with these boards for a very long time, making it unlikely that anyone will like to search for an answer before posting the same question over and over and over and....
-pvs
swtaltima said:
I wish I could say I feel your pain man, but I am a noob as well however I feel the more seasoned vets on here are just tired of the same stupid repetitive questions typically posted by none other than us new guys.
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Click to collapse
They make the choice to read the questions then respond in an abusive manor. Its not like a brother or sister who hunt you down to annoy you. I have tried searching for a good tutorial on how to build packages and what not to build my own ROM but the usual thread I see is, "Google It and learn it the way I did." It almost like no one really wants to share their knowledge on certain areas of ROM building. I've tried googling etc. But I have still not run across a decent tutorial. I'd be willing to help make a tutorial if I knew the complete process. I've seen others claim this forum is for XDA "developers" and if you are not a developer you should look elsewhere for "help." The only way to become a developer is to learn. Most people learn by reading and asking questions. I just don't understand why people insist on berating others for asking innocent questions. I have searched for answers before and not found it. Then later I am reading a thread and I do see the answer to my question but it was not worded the way I say things possible because of language differences. So it slipped throught the cracks of the search. Should I be verbally abused for asking my question? Probably not, especially seeing as how the diversity on this forum is great. Many different primary languages and knowledge levels. It seems like before ROM cooking for Hermes was possible people were all fine and cordial with each other. Then boom, cooked ROMs became possible and it turned into if you cant help me finish my ROM and let me put the donte link in my signature I don't want to help you.
Well thats my take.
PS- if someone helps me grasp the art of ROM building I will make a tutorial and do my best to make it simple to understand for everybody.
Jokinawa
There are still a few bad apples around thou & most of us know them but just keep to our selfs, too much of that n00b flame go read wiki or search google, they can tell you to read the wiki but too lazy to type a quick fast reply to a simple question....
I just wanna know but have my replies been helpful?? :s
jokinawa said:
They make the choice to read the questions then respond in an abusive manor. Its not like a brother or sister who hunt you down to annoy you. I have tried searching for a good tutorial on how to build packages and what not to build my own ROM but the usual thread I see is, "Google It and learn it the way I did." It almost like no one really wants to share their knowledge on certain areas of ROM building. I've tried googling etc. But I have still not run across a decent tutorial. I'd be willing to help make a tutorial if I knew the complete process. I've seen others claim this forum is for XDA "developers" and if you are not a developer you should look elsewhere for "help." The only way to become a developer is to learn. Most people learn by reading and asking questions. I just don't understand why people insist on berating others for asking innocent questions. I have searched for answers before and not found it. Then later I am reading a thread and I do see the answer to my question but it was not worded the way I say things possible because of language differences. So it slipped throught the cracks of the search. Should I be verbally abused for asking my question? Probably not, especially seeing as how the diversity on this forum is great. Many different primary languages and knowledge levels. It seems like before ROM cooking for Hermes was possible people were all fine and cordial with each other. Then boom, cooked ROMs became possible and it turned into if you cant help me finish my ROM and let me put the donte link in my signature I don't want to help you.
Well thats my take.
PS- if someone helps me grasp the art of ROM building I will make a tutorial and do my best to make it simple to understand for everybody.
Jokinawa
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Click to collapse
By the way, they do hunt people down with PM, e-mail, IM, etc...
Here my take
The Art of ROM building does not happen overnight and it is not for everyone. You are also correct there are no A-Z tutorials on how to do it. Nonetheless, there is a lot of information on how to get your feet wet. It requires certain skill set in order to develop good cooked ROM.
Skill set: Search and Read both threads and wiki, Development (someone with a development background is preferred), Cab (building and extracting) PPC registry, Windows Mobile OS (understanding how things work), device infrastructure (understanding how things work with that particular device, because they are not all made equal), understanding you could brick your expensive device with the one wrong turn. Most important patience and keep you changes to a minimum until you get the hang of it.
The list of requirements can go on but I figure with the above information you should have an idea. It takes months of reading, searching, and trying things out in order to understand how to cook. While you are researching you also want to keep with new findings, that means you have to stay on top of up coming new threads. It is a crazy cycle and some of us can keep up with it but I assure you it is not for a lot PPL.
Oh, I forgot one more thing, you also have keep up with your full time job (you know, the one you get paid for).
Thank You
lpsi2000: Thank you. I almost have it down. The only issue I had was one of my apps did not make the start menu icon and I posted it in a thread directed towards one of the kitchens and thus far has been ignored for a week or so. I posted what I put in the initflashfiles.dat etc. It makes a shortcut but appears as a folder link to the /Windows directory and not a shortcut to the EXE. I will get it eventually though.
DAFTEK: I totally agree. Why say use search or the wiki when you could post a link to the search results or the exact thread.
mrvanx: Yes, you are always very helpful.
Thank You all.
jokinawa
<polish>Shines his new Senior Member badge.</polish>
I agree that is has gotten much better in the past few weeks. I also use the ignore list to block out a couple of folks who repeatedly belittle others with their uneducated and profane flaming.
Here is my take. WTF cares
you want a bucket to catch those tears?
jokinawa said:
lpsi2000: Thank you. I almost have it down. The only issue I had was one of my apps did not make the start menu icon and I posted it in a thread directed towards one of the kitchens and thus far has been ignored for a week or so. I posted what I put in the initflashfiles.dat etc. It makes a shortcut but appears as a folder link to the /Windows directory and not a shortcut to the EXE. I will get it eventually though.
DAFTEK: I totally agree. Why say use search or the wiki when you could post a link to the search results or the exact thread.
mrvanx: Yes, you are always very helpful.
Thank You all.
jokinawa
<polish>Shines his new Senior Member badge.</polish>
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Click to collapse
The way I get around some of the issues with applications not working properly, I flashed the ROM, take a copy of device registry and files then install the app on the device and then compare it to see what was changed. From there I normally address it with my cooked ROM.
I must disagree with this comment " DAFTEK: I totally agree. Why say use search or the wiki when you could post a link to the search results or the exact thread." although I have done it at time when the search is not obvious.
If you spoon feed the search every time, then the person will never learn how to search. I have seen PPL on this board expecting other people to do search for them and also provide the answers. Trust me there are a lot of lazy people on this forum.
mrvanx said:
I just wanna know but have my replies been helpful?? :s
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Exteremely, MrVanx... EXTREMELY! Only to be outdone by your wonderful guides...easy to follow and up to date. You provide a wonderful service to these forums, and I always look forward to your posts.
Sorry I haven't yet made a donation in your direction. It will be coming soon.
All the best,
-pvs
austinsnyc said:
Here is my take. WTF cares
you want a bucket to catch those tears?
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Click to collapse
Easy there bro... that kinda attitude got the elf kicked out of the house...
You know I would go easy just everytime my faith is restored in the people here the stupid bug seems to bite again. like asking questions that where answerd in a post right above or someone wanting to be spoon fed its almost to the point where no one wants to do anything for themselves. that's pretty sad if you ask me im sure most of the cooks here did not receive the amount of help that has been given in just the past month. I understand helping people but I also understand earning respect and until that's done give me a reason why I should spoon feed when there is a search button and google.
mrvanx said:
I just wanna know but have my replies been helpful?? :s
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Click to collapse
pretty obvious answer(s)
why create another thread in 'Hermes Mobile 6', this should be put in the 'General Section'
and as far as i have seen it the abuse has been dramatically in the past few weeks
Sometimes the abuse is (IMHO) justified.
This post generally makes my blood boil http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=311698 - the asshole keeps appearing in many guises, doesn't want to help but only make money. If this is the first post you see when you log on you get pissed off, then get carried away with the 'Flashing LSVW bricked my V3' type of threads.
In my opinion, ronfin44 was perfectly justified in (mildly) flaming this guy.
mrvanx said:
I just wanna know but have my replies been helpful?? :s
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Click to collapse
Awww fishing for praise now? ahhahah!
Of course it's been helpful.. Honestly, I'm pretty impressed with the impartial, well thought replies that you always give.
[mumbles]Wish I could say the same for me hee hee![/mumbles]
Okay I'm a lurker on the developer thread and I thought it best to create a separate topic where everyone can talk about it (or complain that people can't shoehorn an OS on a device fast enough for their liking despite the fact that people are doing it for free basically) without all this "DEVELOPER DISCUSSION ONLY AUGUGHGH" "but we don't know where else to post about it"-ism
so this thread is for the non-developer discussion of said project:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=578575
(won't let me past "outside links"(?) cos I'm a n00b for some reason)
so there's no excuse now for anyone who posts "when is it done?" in the other thread
Also, a few pointers since some people don't get it and I'd rather save a developers/non-developers civil war thing.
How long will it take? - You're looking at about a year at least. Remember, it's installing an OS on a system that isn't meant to even have it. It's going to take a hell of a lot of time to guesswork and muck around with this stuff.
(all the people moaning on engadget re: the US HD2 launch being all "HTC release an android update right now " and then being all "OH XDA WILL SORT IT OUT" (because apparently xda is their overnight miracle machine) annoy me something chronic for this reason.)
remember too that these people are more or less doing this for free.
Can't you just install the Nexus/Supersonic/etc. rom on there? - No.
from what I understand of the whole thing (I'm not a developer so take this with a pinch of salt) there's an awful lot of different code and such on these things which means it isn't as easy to just "install" it on another OS. It's like asking why you just can't fit a jaguar engine into a VW beetle. It could work, but there'd be a lot of work and rerouting etc. to be made and even then it would need a lot of tuning and sorting out.
Is it ready yet? - No. You will know when it's ready.
What's happening at the moment? - From what I've read of the whole thing they're trying to iron out kinks with the linux Haret thing thats going to run Android. After they've got it to boot, they're going to have to try and get android working with the HD2. This is why it's taking so long.
so yeah.
hey??
yeah but..
this is the xda DEVELOPERS forum
and this is the HD2 DEVELOPEMENT section
so i guess the linux android development thread does what its supposed to !!
i know its frustrating and you like me want android on the hd2 but to be honest i i find half the fun is the bloody long wait and the small progressions that are made, thats how we learn.
=====PEACE=====
edit >> ok looks like this thread was useful after all - my wrong !! ..
**shrug**
A mod can move it elsewhere if needs be, I was just getting sick of all the feuding going on between people who wanted to talk about it and the developers yelling at the people who aren't posting about developing and thought it best to make a separate thread so non-developer people can talk about the project and developer people can drop in and give advice
yeah
actually you got a point.
theres a fair ammount of flame grill on the other thread that does get annoying
i subscribe to the other thread so i get an instant email for every post and i get my email on my hd2 just as you would a text message so it can be a pain.
=====PEACE=====
Ha finally found again this topic.
I am wishing you all my best to port Android to the HD2 because with all the **** around WinMo 7 comptability, you look the only one able to save the HD2 in the future!
I really hope everyday that Android will be working on our HD2...
Btw, the HTC Desire is going to be out soon, and it has the same specification than the HD2... Does it increase the chance got Android on our HD2?
http://forum.xda-developers.com/forumdisplay.php?f=594
Good luck and all my best !
Zepiii
i hope we get android on our HD2's with spb mobileshell 5.0
Zepiii said:
Ha finally found again this topic.
I am wishing you all my best to port Android to the HD2 because with all the **** around WinMo 7 comptability, you look the only one able to save the HD2 in the future!
I really hope everyday that Android will be working on our HD2...
Btw, the HTC Desire is going to be out soon, and it has the same specification than the HD2... Does it increase the chance got Android on our HD2?
http://forum.xda-developers.com/forumdisplay.php?f=594
Good luck and all my best !
Zepiii
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Click to collapse
All about Gizmondo.com or Gizmondo.fr its bull**** !!
This web site works for Apple its sure !!
Edit : mistake but im sure about Gizmondo
Ok
Too bad we're stuck with low level developers who can't get it done. We need real developers who actually know what they are doing.
simranjits said:
Too bad we're stuck with low level developers who can't get it done. We need real developers who actually know what they are doing.
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Like Android would be wounderfull to have WebOS runing on HD2...a beautifull simbiose with outlook and Itunes integrations.....and push notifications...and light apps for everythink.
I dreaming with that.
simranjits said:
Too bad we're stuck with low level developers who can't get it done. We need real developers who actually know what they are doing.
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Careful now mate. Watch what you say!
simranjits said:
Too bad we're stuck with low level developers who can't get it done. We need real developers who actually know what they are doing.
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Click to collapse
Why don't *YOU* take the lead then if you're so capable of passing judgement on other people; as to do that you must have some amazing development skills in getting an operating system running on unknown poorly documented hardware.
Obvioiusly everyone will bow down to your uberleet level of skill when *YOU* present all of the fine work *YOU* have done!
otherwise...
stop being so bloody rude!
Dcordes knows a fair bit more than most people about linux hacking for ppc devices, I suggest you give him the respect he and others deserve!
if this post upsets you think about what you wrote...
I'm hopeing that it will not sound total idiot, but:
why it's not possible to use NexusOne rom dump, and using it for HD2. Hardware is nearly same except buttons and screen size.
thanks
zabique said:
I'm hopeing that it will not sound total idiot, but:
why it's not possible to use NexusOne rom dump, and using it for HD2. Hardware is nearly same except buttons and screen size.
thanks
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Click to collapse
Ooooh dear...i´m still wondering why people are that damn lazy these days, not reading just one line in threads that are having 709 posts at this moment...don´t you people think that there should be a 100 percent-likelihood (in a developers-forum!) that another big brain spits out such ideas? exactly 1.000 other so called "newbies" have mentioned this point in the past few weeks...sometimes in every third post, again and again, without having read what other people have posted one line above. This is not about beeing a newbie or not, this is just about a little respect to the developers, serving nice presents to all of us without getting paid for it. what you guys can do for them? well, the first step should be not to spam around questions that already have been answered 1000 times before...instead go and read through the replies and at the end, when you are sure that there is no answer yet (after using the search function too, of course)...THAN ask your question or type in your comments and I think everbody will thank you for your participation in this community.
Sorry zabique, of course this is not against you ...but after reading exactly the same line for the 20st time/last two weeks there was no inhibition of my fingers typing these lines possible
i have a lot of respect for those developers, i die a bit inside every time a noob asks how it is going and **** like that.. anyway its nice they are working on it and i hope they succeed! dual boot windows / android would be really cool to have! i will surely donate if its working.. but to who should i donate? maybe its an idea to make a sort of bounty (lets say i will give $20 for getting android on hd2) and someone else also $20. thats 40 in total. if that 40 is shared and given to the developers that have worked on that project it would be a stimulation for them i guess.. only i dont know what developers are working intensively..
anyway my reward will be $20
more of you are going to join?
maybe its an idea to add the totall's of the $$ and the name who gives what in the first post?
fards said:
Why don't *YOU* take the lead then if you're so capable of passing judgement on other people; as to do that you must have some amazing development skills in getting an operating system running on unknown poorly documented hardware.
Obvioiusly everyone will bow down to your uberleet level of skill when *YOU* present all of the fine work *YOU* have done!
otherwise...
stop being so bloody rude!
Dcordes knows a fair bit more than most people about linux hacking for ppc devices, I suggest you give him the respect he and others deserve!
if this post upsets you think about what you wrote...
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Click to collapse
If i wanted to do it myself , would i be bothering myself with these amateurs. At least i know i can't do it, but these guys don't know when to stop. Like i said we need real developers. All they are doing is guesswork and their debuging techniques are crude.
simranjits said:
If i wanted to do it myself , would i be bothering myself with these amateurs. At least i know i can't do it, but these guys don't know when to stop. Like i said we need real developers. All they are doing is guesswork and their debuging techniques are crude.
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Click to collapse
Of course with the guy who have your thinking psychologically, we have the desire to continue working.
Maybe now you know guys who are better and who are willing to take the trouble to come and work for free for fun, to the delight of members!
If this is not the case, then dont write!
I think you're not an adult, easy to dictate but to do the works is another thing.
simranjits said:
If i wanted to do it myself , would i be bothering myself with these amateurs. At least i know i can't do it, but these guys don't know when to stop. Like i said we need real developers. All they are doing is guesswork and their debuging techniques are crude.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
all you know is nothing...
so please shut up and let people who do know what they are talking about get on with it..
fards said:
all you know is nothing...
so please shut up and let people who do know what they are talking about get on with it..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
actually he is quite right. if you have any idea what developers are talking about then you can see that all they do is guess in trial and error style. but aparently you dont have any idea
From the viewpoint of a software architect, it's indeed hard to watch the other thread without crinching every once in a while. On the other hand, the plan of attack there seems to be part of a culture that has done stuff like this quite succesfully with other challenges.
So i won't be surprised if we eventually get a nice port of android running on the HD2.
Mind you, i do believe that an undertaking like this would need the infrastructure, tools and mindset like the main android project has in place at the moment. But that would require a "DEVs and Testers only" door policy.
Simply put, the other thread here lets the lesser gods put their 2 cents in too. I'm cool with that.
BTW, i do not approve of any condescending remarks about the the other thread, nor do i wish to make my own through this mail.
I have experimented with quite a few different ROM's, and have enjoyed trying them all out.
Just wanted to post a thought out there, and see if this would be worth pursuing or if something like this exists...
A table that compares the ROMs, version, refresh date, developers, features, additional software, bugs, etc, so folks can compare the different ROMs on one page.
Link the name of the ROM to its actual thread.
Just a thought I wanted to throw out there......
Thanks,
-Sf-
The closest thing that we have is this:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=649705
But, it doesn't lay it out all that clearly without having to go to each thread and read through. Also, it is about 5 weeks since it was last updated, and we all know how much has been done in the last few weeks (especially Froyo...).
I think this is a pretty good idea. If you want to do something like this, I'd be willing to lend a hand. I am on vacation this week so have a lot of free time anyway.
I think that we could build on that format -
Add major features, bugs, developer name, etc.
Thanks,
-Sf-
It's easier to just link to all of them... you can take the time to go through the Dev's home page. After all, that leaves it up to the topic creator to update every single ROM's bugs and updates, which you can't expect them to do.
Sure, it would be easier to do that...for the posters. But, I feel that the people wanting to check out the roms would appreciate a nice overview of features and bugs then having to wade through some of the toics which can be dozens of pages, if not more. I'll probably start working on this tomorrow, since I've been spending the day figuring out why my parents computer sucks so bad. Found it - 256MB of RAM. ugh lol
this IS a great idea...would be very hard to keep it up to date and what happens if the one guy that posted the topic falls off the face of the earth? as a lot of people seem to do.
not trying to stop it before it begins. i'm willing to comb a topic or two and submit my findings...gonna need a bunch of volunteers to do the same to get multiple ROMs listed.
dusthead said:
this IS a great idea...would be very hard to keep it up to date and what happens if the one guy that posted the topic falls off the face of the earth? as a lot of people seem to do.
not trying to stop it before it begins. i'm willing to comb a topic or two and submit my findings...gonna need a bunch of volunteers to do the same to get multiple ROMs listed.
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Agreed - I have seen lists on other websites, and they still show evil eris 1.1 as the most up to date. However, that being said, we are the most active android forum out there, especially for the Eris. I think this has the best shot in being the most accurate on the web.
We already have a comparison guide.
Its called xda-developers.com!
Lazy...lazy...lazy....
Just read! Its the best way to fully understand the ROM anyways. Way better than a spreadsheet with checkmarks and whatnot.
But if someone was willing to take the time, which would undoubtedly take A LOT of time, to list pros, cons, features, bugs, versions, updates, and all that jazz, it MAY be worth looking. But we've seen stuff like this before, it gets created, and then never looked at again.
Great idea! Yes people are lazy for not doing their own homework...but there are so many ROMs out there. I have read through almost every page of topics to the 4 or 5 ROMs I have interest in, and often find myself confusing features, bugs, etc of those ROMs simply because there are SO many pages to read through and so much to keep up with(especially when some of these topics are in excess of 200 pages). Among these 200+ pages are maybe 25 pages really worth any knowledge of having about the ROM...the other 175 are filled with redundant information, outdated problems that have been solved, and off topic or unrelated posts.
DO IT!
I was kinda thinking about creating a guide on my website since I can't really think of anything else to do with the domain/server I have lol...
or if someone else wants to, I can give them FTP access to a folder and I'll just host it.
Just an idea.
es0tericcha0s said:
Sure, it would be easier to do that...for the posters. But, I feel that the people wanting to check out the roms would appreciate a nice overview of features and bugs then having to wade through some of the toics which can be dozens of pages, if not more. I'll probably start working on this tomorrow, since I've been spending the day figuring out why my parents computer sucks so bad. Found it - 256MB of RAM. ugh lol
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Click to collapse
Yeah... but what happens if you stop updating? And how will you determine whether bugs are just one persons or all of theirs? And almost every ROM page I've seen has the bugs listed on the first post. I'm just saying the current system isn't just "ok" it's the best way to do it. You don't have to read through the entire thread to know the bugs, you can read the first post.
Well, it looks like interest in this idea is underwhelming at best. I'd be all about putting some time into this, but not for 3 people...
Sounds good to me!
This sounds like a great idea to me. I'll admit it would probably take a great about of effort and time to create and maintain but I'd be more than willing to lend my efforts to put something like this together and help keep it up to date. For all of you who are happy with the current system, it will still be there so keep using it. I don't think this is meant to be a complete list of everything there is to know about a ROM, more of an overview (correct me if im wrong). Plus, this would be GREAT for people who've just rooted and are trying to figure out what to try first. We all know its important to read a thread in its entirety before you flash
Just my $0.02
f z o n g
TheFzong said:
This sounds like a great idea to me. I'll admit it would probably take a great about of effort and time to create and maintain but I'd be more than willing to lend my efforts to put something like this together and help keep it up to date. For all of you who are happy with the current system, it will still be there so keep using it. I don't think this is meant to be a complete list of everything there is to know about a ROM, more of an overview (correct me if im wrong). Plus, this would be GREAT for people who've just rooted and are trying to figure out what to try first. We all know its important to read a thread in its entirety before you flash
Just my $0.02
f z o n g
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I agree - this list should be an "easy" way to glance over the different ROMs, and do a high level comparison. So if someone prefer's hero ports for example, they can go to the developer's page to determine if that ROM is right for them.
Just like when you research out a new computer, I usually do a high level comparison at first before I start digging into the "nuts and bolts"
I don't think it's a bad idea necessarily, I don't mean to crap all over it but here is what would need to happen:
The poster of the thread would need to understand bugs and things that have to do with the ROM's. They would need to be able to differentiate between one person's bug and a bug that multiple people are having and one that everyone is having.
The poster would need to stay updating this... what happens when they get a new phone? What happens if their computer breaks? Blah blah blah there are a thousand ways you can stop.
Really what you need is a Wiki, that way multiple people could update the information. Developers could submit their own ROM updates if they wanted and users could add reviews, comments etc.
Hungry Man said:
I don't think it's a bad idea necessarily, I don't mean to crap all over it but here is what would need to happen:
The poster of the thread would need to understand bugs and things that have to do with the ROM's. They would need to be able to differentiate between one person's bug and a bug that multiple people are having and one that everyone is having.
The poster would need to stay updating this... what happens when they get a new phone? What happens if their computer breaks? Blah blah blah there are a thousand ways you can stop.
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+1
for example. . . . what happens when your girlfriend kicks you out and you leave in a rage and forget your computer and storage drives. . . . (was working under the radar on something of the sort but low and behold victim of circumstance.
http://code.google.com/p/erisromtracker/
I'm primarily a web designer but know Rails as well, and a bit of PHP. I'd be willing to put some work into this, but I don't have time to do the whole thing on my own.
I'm thinking of a community-powered web app. Any registered user can edit anything. Edits can be "dugg" by other members to represent validity...I dunno, just some first thoughts.
I made the project page so that people could add ideas/etc and there would be an organized, sane place for figuring out how the whole thing would work, as well as a central repository for any work that actually gets done. It also just doesn't make a lot of sense to use a thread to do this, especially when we're trying to get around people using threads to do this.
^^^^
Eoghann said:
Really what you need is a Wiki, that way multiple people could update the information. Developers could submit their own ROM updates if they wanted and users could add reviews, comments etc.
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+1
And this
Much better ideas because it's not just one person's job.
Man, I guess I'm one of the lazy ones! Actually, I've been looking through all the ROMs in lust (because I can't root - yet) and I need an easy way to figure out what the main differences are. I'd be in large favor of this!
Just wanted to mention that all the users who attacked the devs have changed their tune since oem support is crap.
I've been holding my feeling against all the ignorant users who attacked the devs.
Thanks, that is all.
I'm not sure exactly what you were trying to say, but I got the gist of it.
And I agree.
That is all.
Translation:
All those who attacked the devs and coined them faildev.team are all of a sudden changing their tune now that they are speaking out about their projects, and OEM support has been so crappy.
Sad that people act like this.
I dont undestand why anyone would attack the developers. They aren't obligated to do anything, what they do is out of their own will and desire to better the device. If people have a problem with the phone then blame the manufacturer, not the people picking up after their mess.
Thanks for the translation...
FDro said:
I dont undestand why anyone would attack the developers. They aren't obligated to do anything, what they do is out of their own will and desire to better the device. If people have a problem with the phone then blame the manufacturer, not the people picking up after their mess.
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People demand instant gratification, and when they do not get it, they get ugly because they think for some reason, they are owed everything. Then there is the jealousy factor. Then there are those who think the devs withhold stuff from the community.
Then there are those who just attack me because they can.
The android community is young, and due to it being user friendly, it attracts young folks. Some just happen to be very immature. It *should* get better with time.
All this cool and dandy...
However developers also have some room to improve situation on the forums.
As adrynalyne pointed here there is a lot of childish behavior here. But developers, being leaders of community, not always behave as such.
I understand all sorts of emotions etc. I personally fall victim of them... Sorry if I hurted somebodys feelings.
But, I cannot stand some sort of elitism growing here.
Devs, please do not threat rest of the crowd as a bunch of morons! It will reflect positively on you as well.
If you have time to read all crappy posts on the forums and post aggravated responses, why do not spend this time typing meaningful response, holding grain of knowledge? If not, just stay calm and do not feed flame.
I do not want to repeat myself again and again. Just want to see some professionalism and respect in forums. It's not going to help moving to IRC, twitter or whatever. Root cause must be resolved.
Personally I was really impressed, more by anything else, of adrynalyne responding to that guy posted leak on other forums. Seriously! It was so different from how I percept him at forum. Like completely different person.
Respect!
While moving to irc may be unfortunate for some...it provides real time interaction for development. That simply is not possible on a forum. I work with a lot of people, and can fix problems 90% faster in real time.
Sent from my SCH-I500 using XDA App
FDro said:
I dont undestand why anyone would attack the developers. They aren't obligated to do anything, what they do is out of their own will and desire to better the device. If people have a problem with the phone then blame the manufacturer, not the people picking up after their mess.
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I totally agree, the devs have my support in anything that they do, in whatever time frame they can make happen. Still better then the OEM time frame for an "update".
i hope the poster(s) who jumped all over the devs awhile back (i forget who) arent using anything that they have done recently and will avoid froyo/gb unless it comes from verizon/samsung
nitsuj17 said:
i hope the poster(s) who jumped all over the devs awhile back (i forget who) arent using anything that they have done recently and will avoid froyo/gb unless it comes from verizon/samsung
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agreed
10char
adrynalyne said:
While moving to irc may be unfortunate for some...it provides real time interaction for development. That simply is not possible on a forum. I work with a lot of people, and can fix problems 90% faster in real time.
Sent from my SCH-I500 using XDA App
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And that's OK. Unfortunately it doesn't leave any footprints anywhere else.
That's why we same questions everyday... Technical or whatever. The commonality between them is that they do not have posted answers here.
I'm talking for myself only. Please do not take it personally in any way and keep in mind that my English is not my native language, so something might sound harsh.
Like I got an understanding that RIL is the problem, by I was unable to find any technical explanation why, what was done to overcome etc. So, I asked here... I even do not want to think about what resulted. And all I wanted to have some technical answer, and may be share some ideas, because I'm in the IT field as well...
Now, looks whats going on around. Punkkaos got it working at least partially. I understand that other people contributed, and work probably started not 10 minutes ago. But nonetheless RIL is in progress or already done.
How I suppose to feel about this? I'm mixed.
Fist of all I'm THANKFUL for you guys who put all time and efforts in this! I'm not going to use it immediately, but I like that secure feeling that phone will not become a paperweight in 6 months down the road. I definitely will enjoy results of this work in the close future.
But, I need to admit that I have another side, as well. It's not necessarily dark, just kind of human nature, I guess. It kind of disappointment...
I ask myself - well, if it is done and done pretty quickly, why it didn't happened before? Months ago...
Like, just an assumption, please do not take it personally.
I think what if devs took a quick look and it didn't worked immediately and samsung promised update soon. People think - OK, we will wait for update, not worth to spend time on it. But time goes and goes and there is no update or leak... And tension is going up and up. And all this is OK and well understood. But doesn't solve the problem.
Yesterday, I've created twitter account (yes, call me a dinosaur) and specifically asked punkkaos how he addressed the problem. And guess what, he answered as expected that RIL is basically adapted and he does call result translation between old and new one. This is exactly how I would personally approach this problem myself.
My point here is that aside of actual work to be done, it is not rocket science. It is well known approach in programming.
And now you can throw all rocks you have into me, saying that if I so smart ass why I do not do it myself. That, right.
But, I know my limits and I'm not going to wipe out one of my comps, partition it to install Linux, to install tool chain, sources etc, to reinstall Windows and all crap me and my family needs in everyday life, just to try adapt RIL knowing that I will fail, because of my zero knowledge of subject. Or, even worse without knowing that it was already attempted and failed. And it was attempted by someone who is really ample to do it. Do you see holding factors?
That's why I asked questions. And being this question answered properly, who knows, may be another brave soul would had managed to accomplish what punkkaos did, but one month earlier, simpler or better. I feel like bad temper and communication let community down, at least temporarily.
And I think we are all at fault here. No need to point fingers.
No one is at 'fault' here. Your sense of entitlement is astounding; you are not owed anything. This OP was directed at people like you.
phooky said:
No one is at 'fault' here. Your sense of entitlement is astounding; you are not owed anything. This OP was directed at people like you.
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Did I ever said that I'm owed? My grief is about this particular community in general. And because we all members, we all equally responsible for a atmosphere here. Or you think that bashing somebody here helps a lot?
And you know what? OP is right at the moment, I'll stay away from any custom roms or mods or whatever. At least for now. Because to be "cool" is not only thing in my life anymore. I outgrown it long time ago.
My crave for update is stemming not from desire to have highest score in quadrant, but from wish to have stable, usable and secure platform, from which IMHO any current phone is far away.
Out of the box SF is fairly usable, thought not ideal. Having Froyo and GB, means that I can get all bug fixes, improvements and new features such as native code extensions for applications and games, enterprise stuff etc.
Using rooted phone might be OK for me, but definitely not for my wife or children. So, manufacturer support is still important. Unfortunately my believe in Samsung faded out very quickly. And that essentially raised importance of independent developers proportionally. I do not see anything wrong with it.
phooky said:
No one is at 'fault' here. Your sense of entitlement is astounding; you are not owed anything. This OP was directed at people like you.
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this guy does not seem to be in the entitlement crowd. He even states that english is a second language and to cut him some slack. I think what he was trying to say is that he was disappointed that samsung kept getting everybodies hopes up, which may have pushed devs off of working on getting things rolling for this device (why wouldn't they wait when they are being told froyo is on the way? From what I understand it would be easier to rip through that and make changes than to pull it off a different phone and sort of start from scratch). This doesn't sound too "tinfoil hat" to me, and certaintly doesn;t come off as entitled. More like he was pointing out one possible contributing factor as to why there has been a lot of waiting around (not complaining here guys, statement of fact. Did/do appreciate all the nonfroyo/gb roms and fixes that have been pushed out for us) for word of froyo. Now that Kaos/JT/Birdman have gotten some Froyo alpha's posted up, I am getting the feeling that the floodgates are about to open.
2 cents
I am not a developer.
My phone was decent out of the box.
Thanks to all the developers hard work, that i don't yet have the ability to do, my phone has gone from decent to fantastic.
The best part is that they aren't done yet
The future is exciting and if i ever think i am entitled to anything from someone elses work then, please, someone on here ***** slap me.
To all developers on here....you have my respect and gratitude. You have improved my life and saved my ass more than once. (Or twice)
Please keep doing your thing. And when i learn how to help i will.
Sent from my fascinate through xda app.
Well, the goal isn't to instill hostility, but to bring awareness to be thankful.
I can see what CNemo means because he doesn't understand what's going on. I can assure you that there is no intended elitism going on. Most of the roms tested in irc are shared here as soon as they are determined to be stable enough for testing.
It may seem like there is no transparency, but actually if you care, there is... The source codes are public. You can see what the devs are doing on github.
Yeah I've tried the whole, "Im just gonna throw it out there on the forums" thing. It does not work well, and you end up ticking people off when things stop working. Always best for the IRC crowd to muddle through the stuff first.
adrynalyne said:
Yeah I've tried the whole, "Im just gonna throw it out there on the forums" thing. It does not work well, and you end up ticking people off when things stop working. Always best for the IRC crowd to muddle through the stuff first.
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I agree and disagree. I disagree because it's nice to have this stuff in the forums where more people can try it. On the other hand, no matter how many warnings you give, there are going to be those who AREN'T comfortable with ADB, etc and go ahead and do it anyway... then we as a community lose valuable time while you fix everyone's fubar. It's frustrating to me, I can only imagine being on the other side. As far as Devs go, I don't envy them... It's the utimate "Damned if you do, damned if you don't" scenario.
Aside from donations and thanks, the other way to support the Dev community is to PAY for apps. I have quite a few paid apps on my phone. The only caveat to that is when I'm looking at an app and I'm unsure if I want/need it. From time to time I'll grab it from ********* and give it a 5min test spin. If it works, I uninstall and grab it from the Market. If it doesn't, I just uninstall. I know (for the most part) that we're talking about two separate types of devs, but the point is the same... if you're using someone's work... support them!
In response to the post above, I think I get what he was saying... I've done some programming (old school, mostly... BASIC, MS Acess) and while that doesn't really apply to Android at ALL, there may be some of us that have ideas that could help. In the end, a variable is a variable is a variable. I've thrown questions and ideas out only to be ignored. I don't take it personally, but even a "no, dip****... it doesn't work like that" would be appreaciated
No seriously, the guys in IRC will flash anything thrown at them... Some of them will end up with serious issues that were found to be seriously flawed.
Here's an example. VooDoo 5. When it first started rolling around in IRC from jt, it was considered unstable. It did not have the tools required for the average user to repair their phone. Adrynalyne preemptively produced the DI01 all in one ROM to repair everything from the radio, the kernel, the MBR, the recovery even... Did Adrynalyne have to do that? No, he did it because he knew that kinds of issues that would arrive when VooDoo 5 was introduced. Then VooDoo 5 was released.
Compared to VooDoo 4, the amount of incidents are exponentially less because of Adrynalyne putting a fix out there.
Also with phone repairs, it's much easier to help someone fix something in real time than it is to wait on them to try something, post, wait for response, in that sequence than it is to discuss the repair live in a chatroom.
BTW, this is in no offense to anyone. This is to clarify why some of the people are perceived as elitists. It's not that the IRC crowd are elitists, it's that they're more up to date with the latest development because they're busy flashing and screwing up their phones first so that you don't have to. On the same token, if you want to learn/test latest development, hop on IRC and ask any of the guys in #Samsung-Fascinate for help. It's very friendly in there contrary to what you would think (as long as you're not wozzy/sherwood1).
hello, i've made an Automated Atrix ThatRom Installer.
This script will help noobs to do everything without any troubles.
The file is a rar archive with all firmware files + installer.
here is a link http://www.mobile-inform.com/content/view/1148/1/
this is early alpha. you take all responsibility on yourself. I do not recommend you to use this rom, but if you still want to use it - here it is
UPD Updated To ThatRom v2 (AtrICS)
all thanks to the author of ThatRomv2 (AtrICS), i made only the Installer!
With best regards
the_fly
I don't think that it's a good idea to make an automatic installer of something that it's no stable for someone who doesn't even know how to use fastboot nor flash a zip. Maybe when this finally reaches the stable "level", then you should do the Installer.
BravoMotorola said:
Maybe, until you're not annoying, you should stfu. Seriously stop trying to tell people what to do.
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Wow dude, that was really uncalled for. He is actually right because now the op has put himself in a position to be harassed by anyone who tries this and messes up their phone even though they should and do know the risks. He was just trying to be helpful, he wasn't attacking the op for making it.
I agree making an unstable, untested, developer test build easily available to newbies is a very bad idea. If they can't at the VERY least learn how to use fastboot and adb, they should come nowhere near this ROM. Unless of course you really want to be held responsible for dozens of bricked and/or unusable phones, and be expected to provide extensive support at all times.
if they are noobs - it is their problem. Everything is written befoure me.
Everyone takes responsibility for their actions.
There were several noobs who were crying about ICS even if they do not know what to do. and they are happy now, despite the bugs.
I am not, but i made for those who are. I am not going to tell anyone to install it, i did only help, but i suggest nobody to install it.
It doesn't work and you know it. It's as if there was some paid software that people want, and you made a crack/patch for it, and then you say you don't advise using it. Do you really think people will stay away just because you advised so? No, they won't. In fact in that case your disclaimers make no difference whatsoever, you are equally at fault for making it available as they are for using it. Why do you think all anti-piracy companies always go after crack makers and distributors and not so much after users? I mean many crack makers also advise against using their cracks. But people are stupid and never listen, and in in the eyes of many crack makers are the original offenders.
Or if you want a different analogy - go find a mentally unstable person who can't really think straight (may seem offensive but noobs who want test builds on their phones clearly do not know what they're doing), then place a bottle of some drugs and a fresh needle within easy reach, and then tell them you advise not using it. Observe what happens.
IMO this kind of things are best dealt with preemptively, by not even making the potentially controversial stuff easily available.
you see, i've made first script of unlocking the boot a year ago. a lot of peole thanked me. they were happy - they unlocked once and than used other ways to change the firmware. They were noobs, but happy noobs. 18 000 downloads (i think some of them were same persons, for example me - while i was testing, or when i was unlocking for my friends), but only 4!!! broken phones. 2 of them caused by bad motherboard and 2 of them by ignoring the manual and all the warnings.
This one is more easy one. less questins. less work. just use it.
and if person already have unlocked boot there will be no problem with this FW
and i want to mention it again some users are happy enought with this fw. Some do not have reboots, some have but for them it is ok.
You should tell everyone that this is a very alpha rom. It does run without multiple reboots for most people per the forums. I personally have tried all methods and cannot get it to run.
I appreciate your efforts but this is not something that noobs will get any value from. You should be very clear upfront.
Sent from my MB860 using xda app-developers app
agurzhiy said:
hello, i've made an Automated Atrix ThatRom Installer.
This script will help noobs to do everything without any troubles.
The file is a rar archive with all firmware files + installer.
With best regards
the_fly
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Click to collapse
Thanks agurzhiy!
I am a proud noob who used your unlock script and will use this one.
For all the pros which have a problem with this- you have the same approach as Motorola - "It's complicated you can't understand this". It's my choice what to do with my phone and agurzhiy providing us noobs with a possibility to participate in the effort to make it better.
The bottom line is instead of criticize why don't you spend this time and energy on creating and helping the community. Remember you were ones noobs too.
Sent from my MB860 using xda app-developers app
e07015 said:
You should tell everyone that this is a very alpha rom. It does run without multiple reboots for most people per the forums. I personally have tried all methods and cannot get it to run.
I appreciate your efforts but this is not something that noobs will get any value from. You should be very clear upfront.
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i think everyone knows that it is alpha rom. nobody is going to install a script if if nobody knows what's inside. But i will add that it is alpha
ComX said:
For all the pros which have a problem with this- you have the same approach as Motorola - "It's complicated you can't understand this".
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You're missing my point entirely here. But that's okay. I don't want to argue anymore.
Is this just a fastboot script or an bootloader unlocker and ram fix etc etc
ravilov said:
You're missing my point entirely here. But that's okay. I don't want to argue anymore.
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I do not think that this is an argument. It is more like sharing different views on a subject.
I know what you mean, you want to prevent (or at least warn) noobs from taking the risk of bricking their phone and you are right 100%. But let me ask you how many of XDA readers are dumb enough to download some thing like this without reading at least a bit about it(*). Give ppl a little credit, most of us will stop on red light although it is possible to continue. Take me for example: I wanted to use nebtop but had a difficulty to understand how to root. Than mramirezusa came out with Automatic bootloader for noobs like me and boom - now I'm using the atrix as a streamer and without this tool I couldn't do this on my own. My point is that having a possibility to do stuff is highly appreciated.
* Ryan Dunn: If You Gonna be Dumb - You Gotta Be Tough.
this is a fastboot script to make it faster and easyer for a noob
UPDATE:
added the 32 bit version for x86 Windows
agurzhiy said:
UPDATE:
added the 32 bit version for x86 Windows
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Dude, you've only been thanked here 7 times... Stop thinking so highly of yourself.
Unless you are going to stick around the forums helping these guys out when they have issues with your release, because they won't have anywhere else to go, and because other devs are busy with their own stuff, than you should probably refrain from posting anything that makes it easier to flash dangerous software.
Unless you're willing to help "guy xyz" (since quotes seem to be in) on "page 74" when he asks again, "why am i having video issues after flash", because your main post lacks important details and explanation and your web link is not multi-lingual, please refrain from posting content which could be perceived as harmful to use.
Any good software community recommends first releasing to a smaller test group in order to work out major bugs and minimize any potential impact the software may have on the device... And, any good service community would recommend first releasing to a smaller test group in order to create a base to compare full deployment scenarios against... In no cases would they make it easy to install buggy software on devices of users who can not adequately report issues during alpha stages of software.
Why is it so hard to understand how that applies here?
Zeljko1234 said:
IMO, you should stop spending so much time here on the forum arguing with people. Don't get me wrong but your posts are usually quite offensive (example what I saw today). You post almost in every thread, smartassing noobs, playing to be moderator... If you know something, share it, if post or thread is against the rules, report it.
Now you're arguing with guy who made first script of unlocking the bootloader and in the same time insinuate that many of xda members are just dump.
Forum, especially xda, is about sharing knowledge not giving useless advise/comment or to google it.
P.S.
Sorry everyone for off topic.
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We try not to feed him, Zeljko1234... Just let him be.
Your point is well deserved; but don't feed the trolls.
knigitz said:
Dude, you've only been thanked here 7 times... Stop thinking so highly of yourself.
Unless you are going to stick around the forums helping these guys out when they have issues with your release, because they won't have anywhere else to go, and because other devs are busy with their own stuff, than you should probably refrain from posting anything that makes it easier to flash dangerous software.
Unless you're willing to help "guy xyz" (since quotes seem to be in) on "page 74" when he asks again, "why am i having video issues after flash", because your main post lacks important details and explanation and your web link is not multi-lingual, please refrain from posting content which could be perceived as harmful to use.
Any good software community recommends first releasing to a smaller test group in order to work out major bugs and minimize any potential impact the software may have on the device... And, any good service community would recommend first releasing to a smaller test group in order to create a base to compare full deployment scenarios against... In no cases would they make it easy to install buggy software on devices of users who can not adequately report issues during alpha stages of software.
Why is it so hard to understand how that applies here?
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Why don't you argue with epinter or any other person who put ThatRom?
Why are you arguing with me?
i made the thing easier, but i am not responsible for the uncomplete software. some people are lazy to use fastboot, but they know how to use it (i have flashed my phone 3 times while testing some of options to find out how it works)
other do not have enough knowledge to flash, but it's thair dream to have it, they are ready for the bugs and they alwas can ask me to help them to flash any other FW. And if they have unlocked boot - they can use CWM.
And the last group - the people who are just afraid to install after a lot of information about locking bootloaders. In russian community forums i've read 10 such questions from people who i know, from people who know how to use fastboot.
And if person do not want to install it - he may not install it!
I'm thankful to everyone who share knowledge. Even if I don't use everything, I usually download or read just to learn how. Without such guys, Internet itself will be mostly useless.
Do not blame anyone (especially epinter) for your mistake. He and many others guys spend a lot of their private time to figure how to do something, developing, supporting... and then sahre for free! As I can see, very rare they get donation. Almost never for the most loudest complainers which just wait that someone else will do something for them.
As I explained, as long as you are willing to stick around and help people with issues they encounter after flashing this, and provide more detailed instructions that people can read in your first post, it's not an issue.
Low thank count makes the more seasoned members cringe, as people release stuff that brick phones then disappear (it happens), leaving the community in a state of unrest trying to figure out the full impact of an unmaintained release, how many users were affected by the release, and a common way to fix the issues, and it leaves it up to other developers to explain to every xyz person to read this thread, read that thread, or flash this to fix.
Sent from my MB860 using Tapatalk 2