Related
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...Track=true&ssPageName=VIP:watchlink:middle:us
I came across this looking for an 8525, it seems that he may be using the FREE programs available on here. I would say whoever created them go after this guy because it's obviously not fair he is using what you created to profit without you getting anything for it. I'm not 100% sure if he is use the programs from here, but I mean how many Sim/CID unlock program are really out there for the 8525?
I just reported the item to ebay, this is JJ's stuff and other members hard work.
Lurch3559 said:
I just reported the item to ebay, this is JJ's stuff and other members hard work.
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Click to collapse
maybe a copy of SPL-****er will be worming its way to him... nothing to do with me of course ^_^
You're welcome guys .
Yeah thats a bunch of bull****. i was looking on ebay the other day for a broken wizard and i saw someone selling a program that would load farias wm6 rom onto their phone. I reported that **** right away. There are so many people on here that are so talented and make so much awesome programs and not charge us a dime for it, but then you got dicks like that guy who decides to profit off of other peoples hard work. Death to that ****er.
Really classy how he was going to put commercial video game ROMs onto the phone/memory card too.
Not only was this guy trying to rip off the individuals here at XDA-dev, but also large corporations as well...
S-M-R-T
chenga said:
Really classy how he was going to put commercial video game ROMs onto the phone/memory card too.
Not only was this guy trying to rip off the individuals here at XDA-dev, but also large corporations as well...
S-M-R-T
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I asked him about the programs and whether he developed them or not, here is the response I got:
"no not personally, but do talk to some of the developers and i donate some of my profit to them. any other questions feel free to ask
thanx
nate"
"i do cook my own roms if thats what you are asking, and just recieved an email asking me to remove this service and aparently reported to ebay, so i will not be able to offer this service at this time
sry
nate"
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Click to collapse
Good Catch myztikal47.
I guess we can all help the developers here by keeping an eye out for this kind of crap.
I think it wouldn't be a bad Idea to have a sticky on this topic, something with an eye catching title, so more are aware of this issue, so as to be looking out for stinking thieves at places like ebay or craigslist.
I think it was only a question of time. There is no way how to block this. He can use new account, new name or whatever. we have similar problem on our forum, it is strictly technical forum about repairing TV, radio, video, SAT, PC... and we also have big storage with service manuals, service tips and few guys from us steal this infos from us and trying to profit on these! those information have price of gold, but is no help to stop this. So we decide for higher security, for restriction who can download files, and vice-versa etc. but here is not so easy I think, this will kill this forum.
wow he even had a picture of JJ rom on the page thats the lowest of low stealing and turning anround and making a profit off of it... His address is at the bottom of the page if anyone wants to send him a thank you card!
sinmae said:
I think it was only a question of time. There is no way how to block this. He can use new account, new name or whatever. we have similar problem on our forum, it is strictly technical forum about repairing TV, radio, video, SAT, PC... and we also have big storage with service manuals, service tips and few guys from us steal this infos from us and trying to profit on these! those information have price of gold, but is no help to stop this. So we decide for higher security, for restriction who can download files, and vice-versa etc. but here is not so easy I think, this will kill this forum.
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Click to collapse
I don't think I take such a gloomy view. I agree it is impossible to stop someone selling a service and it is not in the spirit of this forum to sell either advice or cooked ROMs etc. But to play "devil's advocate" for a minute, what is it we object to? Is it that these folk are making money? Is it the lack of acknowledgement to the people who have put in all the development work? Is it the danger that selling this type of thing brings unwanted attention from M$ and telecom service providers?
I personally don't object to someone selling their time to help someone who lacks knowledge though they should tell the customer that they could learn for free from this site. If someone offered me cash to help them flash a ROM I don't think I'd feel guilty if I accepted money to do it. (Though I never have!).
I feel the main reason to block this kind of activity is that we already have unwanted attention from the likes of M$ without being associated with the sale of a service that relys on what M$ consider to be illegally altered M$ material. The very act of selling the service will bring a much harder approach from M$ IMO. No longer would we we seen as a bunch of keen dedicated geeky amateurs, but people out to profit illegally from M$ original work.
I notice on a brighter note that the two cases of this I am aware of are no longer available through ebay. In one case the individual has withdrawn the service and the other was removed by ebay.
EDIT: One of them is BACK
As a warning to others who might follow - selling a service or ROMs in this very public way is almost certainly illegal, particularly if bundled with a whole lot of other commercial games etc. If you want to take on the M$ legal team then this is a good way to go about it - remember it's not just the developers here that are not giving permission it is M$ original work that is being made available in a "corrupted" form.
Mike
This guy is back! But in a different flavor. I just found this today on eBay:
http://cgi.ebay.ca/CINGULAR-8525-HT...ryZ64355QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
He is WAAAAYYY overcharging on this phone. His justification? 1) the free upgrades found on this site, and 2) a CD of cracked illegal software.
And I fell sorry for this buyers who fell for his iPhone upgrade scam:
http://cgi.ebay.ca/HTC-CINGULAR-812...ryZ64355QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
http://cgi.ebay.ca/HTC-CINGULAR-812...ryZ64355QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
I can't believe people fell for that!
this isnt that much different from offering a service to fix phones that users have broken. IE i upgraded to windows mobile 6 and now it doesnt turn on.
yes hes selling other peoples work but really the people that pay him arnt paying him for the software they are paying him for the knowledge he has gained from reading
i would offer a repair service for noobs but theres allready people doing it.
its actually no different to taking a black rom and not donating then complaining about it
tallshorty said:
And I fell sorry for this buyers who fell for his iPhone upgrade scam:
http://cgi.ebay.ca/HTC-CINGULAR-812...ryZ64355QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
http://cgi.ebay.ca/HTC-CINGULAR-812...ryZ64355QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
I can't believe people fell for that!
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Click to collapse
What is to say those buyers are not M$ trying to get the individuals information and then suing him later? Just a thought...
IMO it's fine for him to sell phone with the software pre-loaded on them already, thats like anyone on here selling their phone with all the hacks already done....but to actually have a service to install the software on the phone and profit from that, and not pay the people who created the software...well thats illegal, someone should just report him to Microsoft, they'll have a field day with him lol.
myztikal47 said:
IMO it's fine for him to sell phone with the software pre-loaded on them already, thats like anyone on here selling their phone with all the hacks already done....but to actually have a service to install the software on the phone and profit from that, and not pay the people who created the software...well thats illegal, someone should just report him to Microsoft, they'll have a field day with him lol.
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Click to collapse
I agree with you on that but look at how much higher he is selling the phone because of the free softwares. It's the same as offering the service, basically.
he must need some money to be doing this...this guy must be a crack addict...or meth...yeah probably meth addict, anyways
I'm saddened to see stuff like this go on...coupled with these annoying noobs flooding the forums, m$ being ever so watchful, and the eventuality of newer devices...the great people of XDA might just get turned off from all of this...i know some are already extremely annoyed
...only time will tell
I have a close personal friend that works for Microsoft in their Windows Mobile team and I am going to forward this thread as well as the links to the ebay auctions over to him.
mikechannon said:
I don't think I take such a gloomy view. I agree it is impossible to stop someone selling a service and it is not in the spirit of this forum to sell either advice or cooked ROMs etc. But to play "devil's advocate" for a minute, what is it we object to? Is it that these folk are making money? Is it the lack of acknowledgement to the people who have put in all the development work? Is it the danger that selling this type of thing brings unwanted attention from M$ and telecom service providers?
I personally don't object to someone selling their time to help someone who lacks knowledge though they should tell the customer that they could learn for free from this site. If someone offered me cash to help them flash a ROM I don't think I'd feel guilty if I accepted money to do it. (Though I never have!).
I feel the main reason to block this kind of activity is that we already have unwanted attention from the likes of M$ without being associated with the sale of a service that relys on what M$ consider to be illegally altered M$ material. The very act of selling the service will bring a much harder approach from M$ IMO. No longer would we we seen as a bunch of keen dedicated geeky amateurs, but people out to profit illegally from M$ original work.
I notice on a brighter note that the two cases of this I am aware of are no longer available through ebay. In one case the individual has withdrawn the service and the other was removed by ebay.
EDIT: One of them is BACK
As a warning to others who might follow - selling a service or ROMs in this very public way is almost certainly illegal, particularly if bundled with a whole lot of other commercial games etc. If you want to take on the M$ legal team then this is a good way to go about it - remember it's not just the developers here that are not giving permission it is M$ original work that is being made available in a "corrupted" form.
Mike
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I will point out a couple of things wrong with this Mike... 1. He is using JJ's roms and i highly doubt JJ is getting any kind of kickback. 2. His ebay username nateshuntsvegas is the same as on here. That alone could very well attract some negative attention as if M$ havent given us a hard time the way it is.
the rest of it i agree with
shogunmark said:
I will point out a couple of things wrong with this Mike... 1. He is using JJ's roms and i highly doubt JJ is getting any kind of kickback. 2. His ebay username nateshuntsvegas is the same as on here. That alone could very well attract some negative attention as if M$ havent given us a hard time the way it is.
the rest of it i agree with
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't disagree with your comment, but as JJ's work is freely available for folk to download it's impossible to stop anyone selling services to install it. But yes the negative attention of M$ (linked as it is to here) is certainly not what we want. If we are seen by M$ to be set against any moves to sell this kind of material or a service to install it I'm sure this will improve their view of us.
Mike
I really hope the mods dont close cause this needs to be out there....
I am starting this thread to try to help protect the developers work from scammers....
I ask that if you see someone trying to sell the work of the devs. via ebay craigslist or any other site that you report it in this thread to help stop them in there track.... Hopefully if they see there ads listed here when they come to steal the work they will stop trying to sell it....
This money belong to all the people that has made this all possible....
This is the latest ad I have found which is just wrong.....
Android on your HD2 - $75 (arlington)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: 2010-07-27, 11:33AM CDT
Reply to: [email protected] [Errors when replying to ads?]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
i can make ur hd2 phone dual boot to have winmo and android on your phone both in working order i do have everything on a laptop and can meet to show you my working device and mod your device to match it...plz text (469)-684-8218 or reply to this email for questions !! price depends on your location and how far i have to drive
•Location: arlington
•it's NOT ok to contact this poster with services or other commercial interests
PostingID: 1865976865
damn that is just wrong....and they even left their phone number...
http://cgi.ebay.com/HTC-HD2-Android...d=ViewItem&pt=Cell_Phones&hash=item3caf4d42c1
HTC HD2 Android 2.1 Installation Instructions
I am selling installation instructions for how to put Android 2.1on your HD2. I will give you step by step instructions on how to put a functioning Android ROM on your HTC HD2.
Android is what your HD2 has been waiting for. The current ROM's available are very stable and everything works-bluetooth, calling, email, text, data, Android Market--you just need to know how to do it!!
You are purchasing many hours of research condensed and compiled into easy to read instructions on three pieces of paper. i own the copyright to the instructions, and they are solely my research. I tell you where to go to get the files and then what to do with them to get it running on your HD2. Not breaking your phone and doing it right the first time is what this is about. I have created step by step instructions for you to read and follow, the rest is up to you.You should be up and running within an hour of receiving your instructions.
Please call text or email me with any questions you may have!!!
586-665-6669
I can also update you to the latest version of 2.2 Froyo upon request.
Other sellers may promise you Android on your HD2 which is only partially usable and experimental, but I will tell you how to install a fully functional, stable Android build.
If you are a seller and want to increase your HD2 selling price, let me help you sell for over $100 more per item with this advanced ROM.
We shall flood him with texts asking him to drive anywhere to install android. He ll loose his time and money
Sent from my Androihd2
that is just horrible! if anyone asked me, id do it for free and DEFINITELY tell them i didnt come up with this and give credit to those who did.
What these devs did is amazing and they seriously deserve the credit!
LAAAAAMEEEE!
I have had seen that on craislist add to, not to long ago but I have post tell all the craigslist shoper said that a guy who posted claiming that he could get android to run on HD2 for 40 dollar is a scammer, Cause I know it should be free and I have link the website to here xda-developer.
I don't think it right making money from other people work!!!
i suppose its fair to ask for money to drive to someone and give them a personal tuition on installing android and how to use it on your hd2.
i like to find information and figure things out by myself to do stuff.
some people arent very good at rooting out what they need to do but they are still capable of understanding something if someone sits down and explains it to them.
maybe it will bring some new people into the xda world. loads of people have an hd2 as an upgrade and dont know anything about it.
I feel that if credit is given freely where it is due, the *service* should be allowed.
Most people won't go put replacement parts on their car, and mechanics don't (generally) create their own parts from molten metal. That said, most mechanics also won't say that they DID create the parts from molten metal.
I haven't offered my services as a "phone mechanic" but if I did, AND posted links to the original works, AND made it clear that I was simply selling a service, would I be villified by the development community?
xfinrodx said:
I feel that if credit is given freely where it is due, the *service* should be allowed.
Most people won't go put replacement parts on their car, and mechanics don't (generally) create their own parts from molten metal. That said, most mechanics also won't say that they DID create the parts from molten metal.
I haven't offered my services as a "phone mechanic" but if I did, AND posted links to the original works, AND made it clear that I was simply selling a service, would I be villified by the development community?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's because people with no knowledge about cars should not tamper with their cars or they may cause some serious damage. Putting Android on the HD2 has no ill effects at all and does not warrant a $75 service charge or any at all. Something like this is as stupid as those idiots out there you see selling iPhone jailbreaks and unlocks when those are ridiculously easy as well and again cause no damage to the phone (except warranty voiding but that's to be expected).
hmm?
xfinrodx said:
I feel that if credit is given freely where it is due, the *service* should be allowed.
Most people won't go put replacement parts on their car, and mechanics don't (generally) create their own parts from molten metal. That said, most mechanics also won't say that they DID create the parts from molten metal.
I haven't offered my services as a "phone mechanic" but if I did, AND posted links to the original works, AND made it clear that I was simply selling a service, would I be villified by the development community?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Please explain this to me - what kind of "service" would you offer? Downloading a rom build by someone else and extracting the file to a sd-card? And making false promises by telling your "customer" that android would be "fully functional" (there's no "fully functional" build out there!)? Wow very very impressive!!
And despite the fact that "your service" is based on the hard work of someone other than you (who really deserves the money), I am sure that this kind of "phone mechanic" wouldn't spend one single Dollar/Euro on a donation to the developers who made this possible.
This makes me sad. This makes me sick. This makes me very very angry!
My advice to the developers: Cook in a message displayed when Android is started making it clear that their piece of software is experimental, free and can freely be downloaded at xda-developers.com.
I fully second thread starter's posting - DON'T STEAL FROM THE COMMUNITY! DON'T STEAL FROM THE DEVELOPERS! And last but not least: DONATE DAMMIT!
ironheart said:
Please explain this to me - what kind of "service" would you offer? Downloading a rom build by someone else and extracting the file to a sd-card?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, that's a service. There are many people out there who need a helping hand even for the easiest things. (Ganz besonders die Amis ;-) )
problem solved
nevermind...
Damn, already?? You what guys you can't stop this, you'll always have these punks tryin to make money off someones elses back..
My suggestion: (if possible)
I'm just an simple 1st line IT-engineer, so i wont exactly know how to do this but there must be a way to find out under which ip-adress the person is posting from on these sites.. The chance he's a member here is probably very high..
What if we get this ip, and ask the mods to permantly ban this person... ??
Anyone know if this is possible???
I think that will send a message to some people.. But I think this is unstoppable. Damn the Pirates! Shoot them all!
Selling the instructions and packages to someone is wrong but charging someone to set it up on the phone for them because the owner isn't capable of it themselves is fine IMO.
It's no different to somewhere giving away free car batteries and charging $10 if you wanted them to install it. You aren't paying for the batteries (in this case the software), your paying for someone's time to set it up.
Regardless of how easy it is or how freely available the instructions are, if someone wants someone else to do it, it's fair enough that person charge for their time to set it up for them. The value of that time is up to the person paying it.
MMAwarrior said:
What if we get this ip, and ask the mods to permantly ban this person... ??
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
One of this guys is a member but as long as there are no personal and static IP's for everyone on the planet, ip bans are not working. You can block his region or his ISP but this will block not only him...
Hmmmm, ok so Ip bans are out! only one thing left to do!
Call / mail them meet them, beat em up!
Sounds like a plan to me! I could use the workout!
ironheart said:
Please explain this to me - what kind of "service" would you offer? Downloading a rom build by someone else and extracting the file to a sd-card? And making false promises by telling your "customer" that android would be "fully functional" (there's no "fully functional" build out there!)? Wow very very impressive!!
And despite the fact that "your service" is based on the hard work of someone other than you (who really deserves the money), I am sure that this kind of "phone mechanic" wouldn't spend one single Dollar/Euro on a donation to the developers who made this possible.
This makes me sad. This makes me sick. This makes me very very angry!
My advice to the developers: Cook in a message displayed when Android is started making it clear that their piece of software is experimental, free and can freely be downloaded at xda-developers.com.
I fully second thread starter's posting - DON'T STEAL FROM THE COMMUNITY! DON'T STEAL FROM THE DEVELOPERS! And last but not least: DONATE DAMMIT!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I could see this coming from a mile away. All this thread is going to cause heated debates and eventually name calling. There are always going to be people on both sides of the issue. XDA is place place to develop and share. Its not a place to combat warez or what ever you want to call "selling other people's work". Obviously XDA is against it... if you read the rules.
I totally agree with you on not selling other peoples work and not charging for "your time" but this thread is unnecessary. Its contrary to the goal of this section. Not to mention the already mentioned threats of spamming these sellers. Depending on where you are at this could be considered illegal.
mmafighter077 said:
I could see this coming from a mile away. All this thread is going to cause heated debates and eventually name calling. There are always going to be people on both sides of the issue. XDA is place place to develop and share. Its not a place to combat warez or what ever you want to call "selling other people's work". Obviously XDA is against it... if you read the rules.
I totally agree with you on not selling other peoples work and not charging for "your time" but this thread is unnecessary. Its contrary to the goal of this section. Not to mention the already mentioned threats of spamming these sellers. Depending in where you are at this could be considered illegal.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
you got a point, it's just that we are real appriciative towards the devs, and can't stand these guys making money off em..
MMAwarrior said:
you got a point, it's just that we are real appriciative towards the devs, and can't stand these guys making money off em..
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Click to collapse
I get you you... but I just feel if I want flame wars I could go to sherdog. haha.
ironheart said:
Please explain this to me - what kind of "service" would you offer? Downloading a rom build by someone else and extracting the file to a sd-card? And making false promises by telling your "customer" that android would be "fully functional" (there's no "fully functional" build out there!)? Wow very very impressive!!
And despite the fact that "your service" is based on the hard work of someone other than you (who really deserves the money), I am sure that this kind of "phone mechanic" wouldn't spend one single Dollar/Euro on a donation to the developers who made this possible.
This makes me sad. This makes me sick. This makes me very very angry!
My advice to the developers: Cook in a message displayed when Android is started making it clear that their piece of software is experimental, free and can freely be downloaded at xda-developers.com.
I fully second thread starter's posting - DON'T STEAL FROM THE COMMUNITY! DON'T STEAL FROM THE DEVELOPERS! And last but not least: DONATE DAMMIT!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think you completely misunderstood what I was saying! Let me go through and disagree with your impression of me, one paragraph at a time:
"Please explain this to me - what kind of "service" would you offer? Downloading a rom build by someone else and extracting the file to a sd-card?"
-Answer- Absolutely. As well as educating the person and ensuring that any additional HSPL, radio, or WinMo rom was installed correctly and was appropriate for their hardware.
"And making false promises by telling your "customer" that android would be "fully functional" (there's no "fully functional" build out there!)? Wow very very impressive!!"
-Answer- Absolutely not, and if you would have taken the time to read my original post, that you quoted, you would have seen that I made provisions for informing people of the community and where they should go for more information on Android on the HD2.
"And despite the fact that "your service" is based on the hard work of someone other than you (who really deserves the money)"
-Answer- Back to the mechanic, I think this one has been cleared up with a battery analogy. Perfectly clear. If you need more explanation than that, I am willing to delve into more comparisons.
"I am sure that this kind of "phone mechanic" wouldn't spend one single Dollar/Euro on a donation to the developers who made this possible."
-Answer- I would be happy to donate to the devs if I were to profit from a service based on their work, out of appreciation AND out of capitalistic interest in potentially further motivating them to continue developing and improving.
"This makes me sad. This makes me sick. This makes me very very angry!"
-Answer- Think about it from a more objective basis and perhaps you can feel less queasy.
"My advice to the developers: Cook in a message displayed when Android is started making it clear that their piece of software is experimental, free and can freely be downloaded at xda-developers.com."
-Answer (even though I am not a dev)- That would be fine with me, possibly even beneficial, especially if the "experimental" part was emphasized to imply that there is some kind of risk or knowledge that should be had prior to going out and just diving into Android.
"I fully second thread starter's posting - DON'T STEAL FROM THE COMMUNITY! DON'T STEAL FROM THE DEVELOPERS! And last but not least: DONATE DAMMIT!"
-Answer- Again, I do not condone stealing intellectual property. However, I believe that distributing the intellectual property of others is not stealing. Ever written a paper? You quote your sources, but YOU get the grade. Your sources never (or extremely rarely) reap any benefit from your work of putting research and experience together to put out a clean, finished product. And donating is fine and good and should be done if you find the software useful.
Rule 8: donations up front are not allowed
to quote the mod "asking for donations up-front"
The phrase "if you donate you can have this rom" was never said Someone asked the dev what the public release date would be and he stated 3-4 days. I guess they always have to keep a secret when the releases are.
Seems pretty straight forward. However I fail to see how "established developer with lengthy public release list and contibutions to the scene, rewards the people who, with no pre-knowledege that something might come of it or with any purpose except to say thanks for the work you have already done it is great, helped him with donations so he layed out a beta release for them a few days early."
Maybe we need to change the official XDA rules or make an amendment or something that says. "If at any point ever you release something that does not leave every person with an equal opportunity to download it, barring complications due to persons being on differing Internet Providers, any threads pertaining to this download or the children of this download will be closed and will be looked into to determine if banning is necessary.
That way if any developer feels especially close to his biggest fans and wants to throw them a bonus to really show his appreciation he wont even think of doing any kind or pre release.
Edit: Can someone please post what rule the dev broke? Someone has already posted that he is well with the GPL and I am saying he is well within rule 8
EDIT2: I WOULD LOVE A MOD TO COME HERE AND TRY TO CLARIFY/JUSTIFY THEIR ACTIONS
damn that thread was closed ima wait to install it till its reopened
do not bar this awesome rom
lately i see that the xda team are coming down hard on epic developers. i wonder if there is something else going on...oops, i hope that no one banes me
BRING EPIC EXPERIENCE BACK
ericizzy1 said:
lately i see that the xda team are coming down hard on epic developers. i wonder if there is something else going on...oops, i hope that no one banes me
BRING EPIC EXPERIENCE BACK
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't think it is the only one. I thought I remember reading that if Hero's backedsnack had a public releases the thread would be opened here however there is definitely a great 1.3 public release, Rom and Kernel with many things other roms don't have and the thread here is definitely not open.
Wow. I almost mentioned this to him yesterday but figured it must've been within the rules. I know there are lots of different apps/roms on here that go out early to donators, so what's the difference? I assume it's based on him stating publicly that it will go out early to donators?
Glad I got my donation in and download link in my mailbox! Epic Experience is really the only ROM worth running on the Epic right now.
Funny how when I was in the Hero forum this was common practice, and even exposed to the staff here and nothing was done.
If you did not donate, you did not get the ROM until the public release was announced. I don't see why this is a big problem? People develop and take time from their busy lives to make roms, why not ask for donations, and give the people who donate special perks?
Because it's not a donation if you have to pay for it to get it.
Let's say you go to one of those car washes...you know, with the 16 year old girls in skimpy bathing suits with the sign, Donations Only. Now, you pull up there and expect a car wash, but they tell you that you have to pay before they'll even start anything. Not knowing how good a job they'll do, you have no idea how much you'd want to pay them so, because you don't want to pay until it's done, they send you to the back of the line until they make enough money to open it to everyone.
Say one guy pays $15 to that donation and, although the view of their supple, tight breasts smashed against his windshield is highly stimulating, they do little to the car but smear mud all over and leave streaks on the window. They're done now. Great show, but that's not why he came to the car wash. He regrets giving that money now because he drives away with blue balls and a dirty car. Not worth the "donation".
Donations are something given for products/services received up front, otherwise, it's called a charge.
Now take that car wash, ask for a $5 donation up front to have your cash washed now, or wait a week and have to deal with the lines (low bandwith) of being able to have your car washed for free.
Same concept. Its not a charge, its a donation. Because you don't HAVE to donate to be able to download it. The public will be able to download it, just a few days down the road.
I am not to familiar with whats going on as I don't use that rom..but from my understanding he does make the rom publicly available...the only advantage donators get are support and early access to the beta.
I do not see an issue with that in itself...as you can try the rom and everyone has access to it..but with "betas" its up to the author how to handle distribution of it...
THE GPL states
"When we speak of free software, we are referring to freedom, not price. Our General Public Licenses are designed to make sure that you have the freedom to distribute copies of free software (and charge for this service if you wish), that you receive source code or can get it if you want it, that you can change the software or use pieces of it in new free programs; and that you know you can do these things."
Aka he has the right to charge for distribution according to the GPL..but once obtained a person is free to share the beta to everyone else if they choose.
I personally do not see a problem in that respect..of course if its a violation os a different rule thats another story.
scriz said:
Now take that car wash, ask for a $5 donation up front to have your cash washed now, or wait a week and have to deal with the lines (low bandwith) of being able to have your car washed for free.
Same concept. Its not a charge, its a donation. Because you don't HAVE to donate to be able to download it. The public will be able to download it, just a few days down the road.
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Again. It's not a donation, you're saying "This car wash costs $5."
We have a vending machine at work. It costs 60 cents for a candy bar. But if we wait a month or so, they'll be placed on the kitchen table for free. Is that 60 cents a donation or a cost?
Just because it will be free later does not mean it's not a cost now.
This is okay with me: "Hey, I'm charging whatever you want to pay to get my ROM before anyone else! After I release it to the general public, they can feel free to donate what they feel it's worth."
That is apparently not okay with XDA which is the whole point of the thread. I didn't want to get too far off topic with semantics and my personal feelings.
Grow up xda
Want my advice, of course not but I will post it anyway cause I am waiting for a 30 minute rip file and dont need to read on the can.
Slap him on the wrist, remind him of the rule and move the hell on. This is a DEV doing good things. I dont agree with your rule, all he did was post a day or two early for his supporters, its not like a public release was not coming at all. But I do agree that if you have a rule you then need to enforce it or think about changing the stupid thing.
Seems to me like XDA is becoming a little too militant. Thats all right, these forum sites come and go with change.
Last thing.
I hate criticizing or supporting rules without exposing loopholes (Lawful Neutral with evil tendencies). Here's what I would do as the dev.
1. Follow the friggin' rules.
2. Make a post such as "Having troubles with the newest Beta for XXX ROM"
3. Ardent followers will recognize that ROM and ask why they don't have it
4. The OP (secondary account for the dev or a friend) will explain it's a paid beta (or "required donation" beta if you prefer) of XXXX user's ROM and can contact him here: [email protected] or however you guys do it.
5. "BUT I DON'T WANNA PAY!!!" Well, I think the dev mentioned it will be open to all on XX/XX/XXXX and he'll make a post when it's freely available as per the rules.
Ta-da. Totally within the rules to ask for assistance on ROMs even when others may or may not have them.
And don't lie. Ever. There is never a reason to lie. Dev, put a small, easily noticed and easily fixed bug in your ROM so it's a legitimate post.
People willing to buy an early beta are happy. XDA is happy. Moderators are happy.
othan1 said:
Again. It's not a donation, you're saying "This car wash costs $5."
We have a vending machine at work. It costs 60 cents for a candy bar. But if we wait a month or so, they'll be placed on the kitchen table for free. Is that 60 cents a donation or a cost?
Just because it will be free later does not mean it's not a cost now.
This is okay with me: "Hey, I'm charging whatever you want to pay to get my ROM before anyone else! After I release it to the general public, they can feel free to donate what they feel it's worth."
That is apparently not okay with XDA which is the whole point of the thread. I didn't want to get too far off topic with semantics and my personal feelings.
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Hi will i normally agree with you and take a pretty strict stance on the line between donation and cost. In this rom situation I do not agree. First off yes you are paying for that candy bar. However most car washes like that call it a donation because the driver picks the amount. So the only important thing we can take from that example is that for it to be a donation the donator has to have full control over the amount he wants to give.
Also the car wash is a pretty poor analogy with way to many holes to be meaningful. That car wash doesn't have a previous track record of being free but just for this one superwash you get it a little early. In addition, the car wash doesn't have a set release schedule for a stated timetable. Also another reason for the carwash it is called a donation is becuase you are directly giving money to some "charity" whether it be a real charity or a made up one like giving money so we can go to volleyball state championship. Either way you are donating money to that "charity" then they are washing your car sexily. Lastly the solicit the car wash "cost" of a donation up front.
The most important thing though is to look at the situation. Go back anytime last month and look at the state of things. The first thing the dev did was release a rom to the forums, it started gaining in popularity. Then he released some updates, bugfixes and general tweaks. The rom kept getting better and better and faithful users decided that they wanted to inspire the dev to keep up his good work so numurous people, me included, donated. Now I have only been moved to donated 3 times before, to the xda site, and since I was on a touchpro2 to NRG and MightyMike. In every instance I have donated because the people have provided with a very good product that has greatly improved my experience on my phone. Back to the story, We all donated, the dev never asked for it as payment to the rom, the roms were always available, heck there is nearly a 2 month back catalog, and I am sure there are people out there that will swear that each and every release has the best battery, or the best that, etc. So now the dev has a huge update, He has never publicly stated that he is releasing the rom as an early release and an awesome email ends up in my inbox, which can be considered nothing more than a thank you for your support. He has never stated that he is going to continue releasing roms early to donators or if it is a one time deal. Unless the dev makes a statement about it the only logical conclusion that can be drawn is that he will continue to release his rom normally but if he has a huge .1 update then maybe those "benchmark" roms will be release a little early. Since that is the current case.
If someone was to put up a phantom thread with no downloads and start asking for donations for proposed things, get rid of them. That is clearly not the case here.
I don't agree with xda in this.. schizo is a great dev with a great rom and it is fully available to the public for free. Schizo never even brought up the new release in his thread until the donators thanked him for it. Bad move xda for coming down on a dev that's just taking care of his loyal supporters.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App
I have no prob with early releases, but him posting in his thread about the features of an unreleased public rom is considered a teaser and that is why the mods shut him down.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App
othan1 said:
Last thing.
I hate criticizing or supporting rules without exposing loopholes (Lawful Neutral with evil tendencies). Here's what I would do as the dev.
1. Follow the friggin' rules.
2. Make a post such as "Having troubles with the newest Beta for XXX ROM"
3. Ardent followers will recognize that ROM and ask why they don't have it
4. The OP (secondary account for the dev or a friend) will explain it's a paid beta (or "required donation" beta if you prefer) of XXXX user's ROM and can contact him here: [email protected] or however you guys do it.
5. "BUT I DON'T WANNA PAY!!!" Well, I think the dev mentioned it will be open to all on XX/XX/XXXX and he'll make a post when it's freely available as per the rules.
Ta-da. Totally within the rules to ask for assistance on ROMs even when others may or may not have them.
And don't lie. Ever. There is never a reason to lie. Dev, put a small, easily noticed and easily fixed bug in your ROM so it's a legitimate post.
People willing to buy an early beta are happy. XDA is happy. Moderators are happy.
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Thats exactly what happened in the thread, and exactly the point I was trying to get across.
He never said 'donate and you'll get the early releases!!'
The mods on here are independent people and pretty much do whatever the hell they want, so the mod in the Epic forum might be more tight-holed than the one in say, the Hero forum. Where donate-to-get early is the norm.
Well I truly hope the rules at xda are changed or reworded becuase if things are continually enforced that are not in the rules that sounds like a military state.
Man! Speaking of rules I hope ur like 16-17 yourself. Otherwise those are some pedophile type hypotheticals.... lol!
othan1 said:
Because it's not a donation if you have to pay for it to get it.
Let's say you go to one of those car washes...you know, with the 16 year old girls in skimpy bathing suits with the sign, Donations Only. Now, you pull up there and expect a car wash, but they tell you that you have to pay before they'll even start anything. Not knowing how good a job they'll do, you have no idea how much you'd want to pay them so, because you don't want to pay until it's done, they send you to the back of the line until they make enough money to open it to everyone.
Say one guy pays $15 to that donation and, although the view of their supple, tight breasts smashed against his windshield is highly stimulating, they do little to the car but smear mud all over and leave streaks on the window. They're done now. Great show, but that's not why he came to the car wash. He regrets giving that money now because he drives away with blue balls and a dirty car. Not worth the "donation".
Donations are something given for products/services received up front, otherwise, it's called a charge.
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Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App
Rather then changing the rules..I think they should set a presidents on what way it would be considered ok to do this.
One comment on something that was said in the thread that got closed. A few posters there complained about charging for something that's GPL'ed. Actually, it's totally, unambiguously, and 100% legal to charge for things that are GPL'ed. It's also totally, unambiguously, and 100% legal for anyone who acquires a copy of it to turn around and redistribute it -- for free, or for money.
The GPL2 requires that Schiz license his changes under the same terms. So, anybody who donates and downloads the beta release acquires a license to use it under the GPL2. Likewise, the GPL2 requires that Schiz make the source available to those specific users. The GPL2 does NOT require that Schiz bend over backwards to immediately make his changes instantly available for free to the general public. Or ever make them available for free to the general public at all. Officially, you don't become a licensee of Schiz' changes until you either a) donate, and download it from him, or b) he posts it publicly and you download it from wherever he puts it. HOWEVER, the GPL2 also entitles anyone who acquires a copy of Schiz's changes to redistribute them independently of Schiz.
That's the check and balance. If 10 users feel poor/stingy and want to split the cost of a donation so one can grab it and give copies to everyone else, it's 100% legit and legal under the GPL. It would be equally legal for Schiz to get mad and refuse to answer questions from anyone he caught doing that, because the GPL only conveys the right to obtain the source and redistribute it. The GPL conveys no right to tech support. The fact that something is legal doesn't necessarily mean others have to regard it as good and morally acceptable. You have every right to regard someone as an immoral asshole for doing something that's nevertheless completely legal. Big corporations do things that are technically legal every day, and get excoriated for it by Slashdot users on a regular basis
Suppose I use GPL'ed source to develop an internal app used by a major corporation. There's NO requirement that the source to that internal app ever be made available to anyone outside the company, since only the company is the licensee of the modified code. The only time the source has to be made available to anyone outside the company is if the app ends up getting used in an app used by the company's own customers. That's where lots of big companies get into trouble... they'll use GPL'ed code for years for internal vertical-market apps, then slip it into a publicly-released client app without realizing the licensing implications of doing so until it's too late.
Giving another example, it would be absolutely 100% legal for Tivo to charge customers $100 to upgrade to a newer version of their software. However, under GPL2, it would be 100% legal for anyone who paid $100 for it to redistribute it to others -- Tivo-owning or not. Where the GPL2 and GPL3 differ is that under the GPL2, it's entirely legal for Tivo to respond by making their hardware refuse to allow the upgrade unless you also present it with a valid license code. However, even in the case of the GPL3, the intent of the GPL isn't necessarily to enable anyone to take Tivo's software and build his own Tivo from scratch -- it's to guarantee Tivo owners the freedom to hack and modify their own Tivo to better meet their own individual needs and improve it beyond what Tivo itself is willing/able to do.
The point is that the GPL doesn't quite mean what many people believe it does, and in some contexts the distinction between GPL2 and GPL3 are very important. Android is actually Apache-licensed, but because it's inextricably bundled with Linux, it's effectively governed by the GPL2 as well (for the most part).
Finally today i had enough... I filed a formal complaint with the FTC against motorola and all other mobile device manufacturers out lining the cause and effect of these companies selling us devices that we are made to be only users of rather than owners and administrators the devices we purchased. Nothing will change until we make some one step in and set the rules, i am encouraging everyone here on xda to do the same ... here is a link to the example complaint i filed and the link to the appropriate form to be filed
http://t0dbld.blogspot.com/2011/03/my-complaint-to-ftc-on-lock-bootloaders.html
https://www.ftccomplaintassistant.gov/FTC_Wizard.aspx?Lang=en
Can I still do this as a Canadian Citizen or is it only for Americans?
mafiaboy01 said:
Can I still do this as a Canadian Citizen or is it only for Americans?
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could not hurt...
even though I don't own this device anymore I still filed a complaint. Rooting this device is much easier than the HTC Inspire. I hope they listen.
Good luck with this. You'll need it. No sarcasm intended.
Sent from my MB860 using XDA App
t0dbld, I read your complaint and don't take my comment as negative but your complaint is full of grammatical errors. The case in point about Samsung keylogging has been debunked. But your example is always a possible scenario. AT&T data capping speeds for all phones but the iPhone is something we could mention as crippling.
I'm 100% in favor of unlocking our phones boot loader.
http://www.networkworld.com/newsletters/sec/2011/032811sec2.html <-- Samsung false alarm article.
Again, I don't mean any disrespect. I appreciate the developers who help the Android community, especially the Atrix.
Here was my submission:
Motorola makes and sells a device called the Motorola Atrix. They have, in the boot-loader, added a cryptographic signing check that prevents any software not created, and signed by Motorola from executing on the device. I believe this business practice to be monopolistic, and anti-consumer. While modifying the operating system voids any warranty on the device, as a consumer purchasing this device I should have the option to modify, or improve the device in any way I see fit.
In short: Motorola is exhibiting monopolistic business practices by locking the device down and disallowing third party operating system software to be installed.
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t0dbld said:
Finally today i had enough... I filed a formal complaint with the FTC against motorola and all other mobile device manufacturers out lining the cause and effect of these companies selling us devices that we are made to be only users of rather than owners and administrators the devices we purchased. Nothing will change until we make some one step in and set the rules, i am encouraging everyone here on xda to do the same ... here is a link to the example complaint i filed and the link to the appropriate form to be filed
http://t0dbld.blogspot.com/2011/03/my-complaint-to-ftc-on-lock-bootloaders.html
https://www.ftccomplaintassistant.gov/FTC_Wizard.aspx?Lang=en
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Click to collapse
I smell an april fools setup post.... if not.. everyone remember what day tomorrow is.
mafiaboy01 said:
Can I still do this as a Canadian Citizen or is it only for Americans?
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kdoodle said:
t0dbld, I read your complaint and don't take my comment as negative but your complaint is full of grammatical errors. The case in point about Samsung keylogging has been debunked. But your example is always a possible scenario. AT&T data capping speeds for all phones but the iPhone is something we could mention as crippling.
I'm 100% in favor of unlocking our phones boot loader.
http://www.networkworld.com/newsletters/sec/2011/032811sec2.html <-- Samsung false alarm article.
Again, I don't mean any disrespect. I appreciate the developers who help the Android community, especially the Atrix.
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I replied on the blog but i will reply here as will in case you did not read , that is a blog, i am not concenred with errors or anything there, also that was not my EXACT complaint as i did not want it to just get copy and pasted hence taking away from my formal complaint, while i appreciate your support and interest , i do think your time would have better used to file an actual complaint as per my request , rather than writing me a 2 page comment about mine either way good to have you on board, and make sure yours is well written
You should have let me proof that prior to submission. Other than it being way to long, over technical, and demonstrating piss poor English it did actually make some points! No hard feelings bro
The problem is that corporate America will not read our complaints, they simply don't care about anything but their bottom dollar. The bottom dollar is protected by the boot loader. New features? Go buy our new device!
The way I see it, we have two options.
A.) Petition our government to impose regulations and implement new laws to control these corporations and protect our consumer rights. But wait, doesn't our government make a lot of money off this industry in every aspect? How much tax did you pay when you bought your device? Ever look at the taxes on your phone bill? It's rape any way you cut it. It's not the 'sleeping with your girlfriend while she's passed out drunk' rape. It's more like the 'in the alley, behind a dumpster, while it's raining and dark getting raped by an HIV infected ex-con bum' rape. So my point is, the FTC is a government subsidiary and our taxes pay their salerys. We have established that they enjoy to rape us and we pay them to do it. Keep up the complaints, they just might change their outlook on life. For now, I would say option A can be scratched off the list.
B.) Start a revolution. Unite, gather our firearms, cordinate our forces, and take our country back!
Or someone smarter than I could just crack the damn boot loader... That's all i have for now, time to burn one
Submitted complaint
Moved to general as not android development
tical2k said:
I smell an april fools setup post.... if not.. everyone remember what day tomorrow is.
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ummm are you that dense this is not a joke
thedude420 said:
You should have let me proof that prior to submission. Other than it being way to long, over technical, and demonstrating piss poor English it did actually make some points! No hard feelings bro
The problem is that corporate America will not read our complaints, they simply don't care about anything but their bottom dollar. The bottom dollar is protected by the boot loader. New features? Go buy our new device!
The way I see it, we have two options.
A.) Petition our government to impose regulations and implement new laws to control these corporations and protect our consumer rights. But wait, doesn't our government make a lot of money off this industry in every aspect? How much tax did you pay when you bought your device? Ever look at the taxes on your phone bill? It's rape any way you cut it. It's not the 'sleeping with your girlfriend while she's passed out drunk' rape. It's more like the 'in the alley, behind a dumpster, while it's raining and dark getting raped by an HIV infected ex-con bum' rape. So my point is, the FTC is a government subsidiary and our taxes pay their salerys. We have established that they enjoy to rape us and we pay them to do it. Keep up the complaints, they just might change their outlook on life. For now, I would say option A can be scratched off the list.
B.) Start a revolution. Unite, gather our firearms, cordinate our forces, and take our country back!
Or someone smarter than I could just crack the damn boot loader... That's all i have for now, time to burn one
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Click to collapse
OK nice ridiculous rant , for the last time that was not the EXACT complaint, secondly the FTC is the closest government agency that would have anything to do with this so what do you think we are doing, third please mr 420 hippy do something on your own than, to many times i have been given suggestions by pot smoking liberals with all the answers... yet never once seen them step up to the plate, while my self on the other hand has a long documented court history for the things i believed in and stood up for, i am not against any method of trying to draw attention and get results as this is not about the phone in my hand today but the future of the industry, so please try any method you wish but than do it and than give us your lesson about rape and pot smoke and alleys as the rest of us act with actions.... not long drawn out imaginative story's after "burning one" than dont make any real sense or have any relevance
No not dense, just real. Why would THIS make a difference, the community has been *****ing about bootloaders being locked for ages. Just throw another *****ing complaint in the pile, they don't care. Get a lawyer pack that can combat ATT and/or moto. Are you THAT dense to think you can make a difference. Dont get me wrong I like your spirit and you have an ethos, but not enough money to fix it. sorry face reality.
tical2k said:
No not dense, just real. Why would THIS make a difference, the community has been *****ing about bootloaders being locked for ages. Just throw another *****ing complaint in the pile, they don't care. Get a lawyer pack that can combat ATT and/or moto. Are you THAT dense to think you can make a difference. Dont get me wrong I like your spirit and you have an ethos, but not enough money to fix it. sorry face reality.
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your right.... give up and win, why vote either your vote doesnt count so who cares
t0dbld said:
your right.... give up and win, why vote either your vote doesnt count so who cares
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Nice rebuttle. And for the record I vote... right down the middle to maintain chaos, because politics are only good when they don't do anything unless they both parties agree on it. If you dont like the bootloader being locked why buy it? Also why not return it.
tical2k said:
Nice rebuttle. And for the record I vote... right down the middle to maintain chaos, because politics are only good when they don't do anything unless they both parties agree on it. If you dont like the bootloader being locked why buy it? Also why not return it.
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Your missing the point entirely , this is not about my motorola atrix, i could care less and mine will be unlocked sooner than later... this is about the fact that they have no right to make us users on devices that we own, we own it we deserve to have administrative rights as well as the option to load what ever software we want on it... period
Go away, troll
t0dbld said:
Your missing the point entirely , this is not about my motorola atrix, i could care less and mine will be unlocked sooner than later... this is about the fact that they have no right to make us users on devices that we own, we own it we deserve to have administrative rights as well as the option to load what ever software we want on it... period
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I end with a quote from Swimming with Sharks (a great kevin spacey movie btw):
"Look, I can appreciate this. I was young too, I felt just like you. Hated authority, hated all my bosses, thought they were full of ****. Look, it's like they say, if you're not a rebel by the age of 20, you got no heart, but if you haven't turned establishment by 30, you've got no brains. Because there are no story-book romances, no fairy-tale endings. So before you run out and change the world, ask yourself, "What do you really want?"
I submitted it.
Everyone please do this it doesn't take any time.
Hello,
I'm not sure if this is the best place for this post, but it's the smartest, and largest android based community I know
I wanted to know where would be the best place for me to look for a hardware engineer. The caveat would be I need to find someone willing to talk a bit first before actually being paid. I need the help of one so I can make a more sound mock-up of what I'm doing and planning prices before talking to the VCs I have contacts for. That said, I COULD always find a way to basically hire a hardware engineer for consulting but I would really want to find a hardware engineer somewhat as passionate as I am about quality and creativity forward thinking. I already have a few software teams in mind to ask but will only do so once I have the funding.
So my question to you at XDA, where would I go about doing this? I should also mention the engineer I would look for would need to know about mobile phones. The thing is, I CAN start prototyping and the funding process using generic insides from a chinese phone BUT the end goal for me is custom hardware with the utmost care and quality put into it. So I would basically be lying to VCs (which let's be honest, everyone does) but then I would be delayed in having a hardware engineer still, and I'd rather have as much time to get the ball rolling as possible. Hell even if the hardware engineer could give advice on the future and pricing but says going with chinese insides until the money comes in would work.
I just have no idea where to find one, craigslist, ask around from friends, post at a certain website? Luckily what I will be doing for the next year shouldn't take the engineer more than a couple hours a week if even. So for quite a few months it should be pretty low key for them if they wanted to keep doing whatever job they were doing until I could afford to hire them full time. In about 6 months I want to start the prototyping to have early look units available for reviewers by November/December of this year.
Thank you for taking the time to read and help! If anyone is curious without saying too much I am looking towards making a pure android ubuntu edge quality phone, but most likely higher quality. The end goal is to use the main funding to make a phone directly aimed at the wants of you guys at XDA, but that's at least a year or so away sadly, and first things first.
iytrix said:
Hello,I'm not sure if this is the best place for this post, but it's the smartest, and largest android based community I know I wanted to know where would be the best place for me to look for a hardware engineer. The caveat would be I need to find someone willing to talk a bit first before actually being paid.
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You're in San Jose!! They grow on trees there! Just get some kid on the street and half their family will be HW engineers.
Anyway, this is the right place, but you are basically saying that they should "talk" to you, for free, for a while. So I doubt anyone would come forward. At least that's my experience in reading and seeing similar posts here in the last 2 years. Why would someone with the know how, risk spending months talking HW details, just to find him/herself abandoned?
You're project seem very noble and tasty, but we have to repackage it with some better incentives.
E:V:A said:
You're in San Jose!! They grow on trees there! Just get some kid on the street and half their family will be HW engineers..
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Hahahaha! So true! I remember when I first was looking to move out with a roommate almost EVERYONE was an "engineer" of some sort.
In hindsight I shouldn't have deleted the quote to respond. I think I remember all of what you said.
Yeah I understand that fully. This has just been an idea brewing in my head for about 3 or so years and my original plan was to befriend someone that was a hardware engineer and after building trust and enthusiasm start working on things. Me personally, I would do all of this for no profit on my part. Do I want it? Yes, but I only care about food, living, car payments, and getting this project rolling. I would like to work with people passionate enough about this to have a close mindset, but I realize that's not realistic, especially since it's my idea I'm asking people to believe in enough to work for it.
I think what I will probably have to do is, once I get enough stuff written up to present to an engineer to entice them on the project, also get some contract ready that promises them some share in things. The only thing is that could get very messy, and I would also need to add some more binding things so that they couldn't just leave on their own and take some profits, but I know I will need SOME way to entice people to want to work on this beyond just showing them the plan and idea.
I'm also trying to get in the more professional mindset. Making new company named emails and profiles so when I talk to people it's not just from a personal account. For XDA though I assumed people would take a senior member a lot more seriously than a brand new account though.
Are you from the Bay Area as well or do you just know of it? I find it weird that in this area people want to know investors and have their teams. I am in the opposite position where I have no team but have investors I am able to get a meeting with.
As a side note, a main reason why this turned from an idea to a thing that I HAD to do is I was getting fed up with all the phones that are coming out. There are many markets and categories missing from phones and I am hoping I can be the one to fill the gaps. I see tons of complaints online on various aspects of phones and so few companies seem to listen. Then once in a while a phone seems to be close to perfect and then the company doesn't ever come close again or removes wanted features. My only real fear is if the market moves too fast with some proprietary tech. But seeing as we've had bendable screens for...what 3 years now and the most we've gotten is slightly curved phones no one likes? I hope to change that, to get people more interested and caring for their phones.
Just figure out where they hang out online, and post...
You could post wherever idle HW engineers go to look for jobs too.
And there is no such thing as an "unemployed engineer".... They're (we're) consultants / contractors in between assignments, LOL.
mikereidis said:
Just figure out where they hang out online, and post...
You could post wherever idle HW engineers go to look for jobs too.
And there is no such thing as an "unemployed engineer".... They're (we're) consultants / contractors in between assignments, LOL.
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That's why I'm here to see if anyone knew where they went to hang out online haha. How would I go about that? Like a site or forums that's like a github for engineers instead of coders (although github is more pure code.....stack overflow I should say, but I think I make enough sense).
Haha! That seems very true. I'm sure I could find one to help me at least get the planning done but I would love to find one who wants to see this project through and through, and stay on for the full production of the phones, and the other ones I plan on making in the following years if this one succeeds.
Oh and, since from what you've said you SEEM to be a hardware engineer, how would I go about asking for the right kind? Could anyone with a degree or knowledge be able to easily adapt to making phones properly, or would I need to ask for one with a certain specialty? If so, what's the official term for the specialty?