Hey guys,
I know a lot of people with this phone are happy with the frame rate of videos in good light (30 fps constant). But one thing that really does my head in is the shocking frame rate in low light (like indoors).
Well fear not chums, supremebeaver is here to put your fears to rest
Steps:
- Open camera (not camcorder) app. Set ISO to 800
- Open Camcorder app, set Exposure to -2.
- Notice improved frame rate in viewfinder.
- Smile
I will admit, the quality suffers a little. The video gets a lot darker but imo its a good compromise for smoothness. At least for me. I was able to go from 9 fps with stock settings to 25 solid with those settings changed.
Enjoy
if you want to know why this works, heres how:
at 30 Frames Per Second, each frame of video has a minimum exposure time of 1 thirtyith of a second, or 1/30 seconds.
in low light this is does not give the camera enough time to gather light to expose an image, so it slows the exposure time down, saaaay, 1 fifteenth. this reduces the frame rate to 15fps. this gives the camera twice as long to expose an image.
by changing the exposure to -2 you are telling the camera not to increase the exposure time and so you end up with a darker image but better frame rate.
this is not something that can be magically fixed by a firmware update, its simple photographic physics.
the only thing a firmware fix will do is turn the default ISO up.
rossysaurus said:
if you want to know why this works, heres how:
at 30 Frames Per Second, each frame of video has a minimum exposure time of 1 thirtyith of a second, or 1/30 seconds.
in low light this is does not give the camera enough time to gather light to expose an image, so it slows the exposure time down, saaaay, 1 fifteenth. this reduces the frame rate to 15fps. this gives the camera twice as long to expose an image.
by changing the exposure to -2 you are telling the camera not to increase the exposure time and so you end up with a darker image but better frame rate.
this is not something that can be magically fixed by a firmware update, its simple photographic physics.
the only thing a firmware fix will do is turn the default ISO up.
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but why is the cam on htc hd7 have faster fps than hd2 when they got the same specs? hd7 has WP7 and hd2 has WP 6.5. is it the o/s?
The HD7 has the same chipset as us, the HD2 has the last generation of snapdragon (the same one as the classic desire).
Sent from my Desire HD using Tapatalk
Consider using the built-in flash to compensate for that darker image issue
it would be nice if we had a brightness setting, like LG camera does. There, you can also boost ISO to 1250.
mdalacu said:
it would be nice if we had a brightness setting, like LG camera does. There, you can also boost ISO to 1250.
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but the noise will be too high.. like on the iphone 4, they raise the ISO so high to maintain framerate but all u get is a super grainy video that looks rubbish.
Technology for phone cams still has a long way to go...
Loving this phone so far except for one thing. When recording in low-light, there is a significant decrease of fps.
I realize that the 28mm f/2.0 lens is the best out there so why would HTC pair it with such a crippling software feature???
I'd rather have the software crank up the ISO or lose a little exposure to keep the video at a steady 30 or 24 fps instead of the stuttering/lag effect.
Some of my videos in low-light areas are averaging 20/fps.
Do any of you know if HTC usually updates the camera software or if an outside dev would come out with a camera hack allowing us to lock the framerate?
Zexell said:
Loving this phone so far except for one thing. When recording in low-light, there is a significant decrease of fps.
I realize that the 28mm f/2.0 lens is the best out there so why would HTC pair it with such a crippling software feature???
I'd rather have the software crank up the ISO or lose a little exposure to keep the video at a steady 30 or 24 fps instead of the stuttering/lag effect.
Some of my videos in low-light areas are averaging 20/fps.
Do any of you know if HTC usually updates the camera software or if an outside dev would come out with a camera hack allowing us to lock the framerate?
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alot of expensive video cameras will do this also.
it has to slow the shutter speed to let in more light. otherwise if you increased the shutter speed you wont see anything. i guess they could add a shutter speed control to let you increase that and ramp up the ISO.
simba2585 said:
alot of expensive video cameras will do this also.
it has to slow the shutter speed to let in more light.
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Shutter speed is for pictures, lol. I am talking about frame rates for videos.
I am more than happy with the htc one for pictures but for low-light videos, I would love it if I can lock my frame rate at 24 or 30 fps for my entire video.
I would rather have less light/more ISO instead of choppy videos.
I think HTC allows the drop in framerate to keep the ISO the same.
Zexell said:
Shutter speed is for pictures, lol. I am talking about frame rates for videos.
I am more than happy with the htc one for pictures but for low-light videos, I would love it if I can lock my frame rate at 24 or 30 fps for my entire video.
I would rather have less light/more ISO instead of choppy videos.
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Just curious, are you running a 1.29 based firmware?
Zexell said:
Shutter speed is for pictures, lol.
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I've never facepalmed so hard before.
Shutter speed applies for both pictures and videos; with videos, it's the amount of time the sensor (or that particular slide of film, in the 'old days') captures light for a frame in said video.
If it's low light, the video needs to let in more light by increasing the amount of time the sensor captures light for a given frame. Thus increasing the shutter speed.
Now, here's where frame-rate comes into the picture (see what I did there? ;D)...
For example (I'm not using real numbers here, as I don't know what numbers are used for the One, plus maths isn't my strong point. But...) in normal lighting the frame rate is 1/30th of a second, and it's shooting at 30fps. All's well.
However, if it's in 'low light mode', it'll need to lower the shutter speed to 1/20th of a second (again, just example numbers). It'd then need to lower the fps down to 20fps.
TL;DR: pictures and videos both have shutter speed.
Um, I'm sorry OP, can you point to the phone that is currently shooting usable 60fps video in low light?
Maybe in a few years. Right now you just have to deal with the current state of the art instead of complaining that HTC is making crappy decision decisions.
You could probably have 30fps video in low light right now. It will just look very very dark.
I'm guessing if they went that route, you'd complain about that decision too.
Sent from my PC36100 using xda app-developers app
M_Woody said:
I've never facepalmed so hard before.
Shutter speed applies for both pictures and videos; with videos, it's the amount of time the sensor (or that particular slide of film, in the 'old days') captures light for a frame in said video.
If it's low light, the video needs to let in more light by increasing the amount of time the sensor captures light for a given frame. Thus increasing the shutter speed.
Now, here's where frame-rate comes into the picture (see what I did there? ;D)...
For example (I'm not using real numbers here, as I don't know what numbers are used for the One, plus maths isn't my strong point. But...) in normal lighting the frame rate is 1/30th of a second, and it's shooting at 30fps. All's well.
However, if it's in 'low light mode', it'll need to lower the shutter speed to 1/20th of a second (again, just example numbers). It'd then need to lower the fps down to 20fps.
TL;DR: pictures and videos both have shutter speed.
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Gotcha. But the shutter speed isn't always controlled by the fps. On my T2i, I can record at 30fps while leaving my shutter speed at 1/30th or change it to 1/400th while changing the f stop or ISO, which results in crystal clear motion captured. I always believed shutter speed is always independent of framerates. For the HTC one, i would love it if the fps was locked regardless of shutter speed per frame or iso or aperture.
The choppiness really creates unusable footage.
NxNW said:
Um, I'm sorry OP, can you point to the phone that is currently shooting usable 60fps video in low light?
Maybe in a few years. Right now you just have to deal with the current state of the art instead of complaining that HTC is making crappy decision decisions.
You could probably have 30fps video in low light right now. It will just look very very dark.
I'm guessing if they went that route, you'd complain about that decision too.
Sent from my PC36100 using xda app-developers app
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Actually, that's exactly what I am asking for. The option to choose a choppier footage with more light or have 30fps video in low-light at the compensation for darker exposure or more ISO.
Recording at 720p @ 60fps in low-light still results the framerates dropping below 24 which I consider is unusual footage.
I guess I'm the only one feeling like HTC made a poor decision by not locking the fps but when my footage goes from 30 fps to 20 fps in less than 1 second, the footage is really undesirable. They could've easily just raised the ISO or aperture like the s3, lumia 920, or iphone 5 do.
Actually, that's exactly what I am asking the choice for.
So noted.
Raising ISO is a fancy way of saying turning up the gain which will also amplify the noise in the sensors, creating some very grainy video.
That probably wouldn't be very desirable either.
It's all about tradeoffs.
Phones, more than other devices, tend to have a very fluid idea of frame rate. If you need it nailed up at 30 fps no matter what, you're right, this may not be the camera for you.
NxNW said:
So noted.
Raising ISO is a fancy way of saying turning up the gain which will also amplify the noise in the sensors, creating some very grainy video.
That probably wouldn't be very desirable either.
It's all about tradeoffs.
Phones, more than other devices, tend to have a very fluid idea of frame rate. If you need it nailed up at 30 fps no matter what, you're right, this may not be the camera for you.
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Grainy videos can be treated or processed with filters. There is no alternative to frames that are lost.
I didn't mean to go on debates about ISO or shutter speed.
Instead of returning the phone, I was asking the community if they happen to know if HTC updates the drivers for the camera at any point or if someone would develop a camera hack that addresses this loss of frames or the choice.
Zexell said:
Actually, that's exactly what I am asking for. The option to choose a choppier footage with more light or have 30fps video in low-light at the compensation for darker exposure or more ISO.
Recording at 720p @ 60fps in low-light still results the framerates dropping below 24 which I consider is unusual footage.
I guess I'm the only one feeling like HTC made a poor decision by not locking the fps but when my footage goes from 30 fps to 20 fps in less than 1 second, the footage is really undesirable. They could've easily just raised the ISO or aperture like the s3, lumia 920, or iphone 5 do.
Actually, that's exactly what I am asking the choice for.
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What are you recording in such low light anyways? Why not just go get your t2i to record with then...
AndrewAmazed said:
What are you recording in such low light anyways? Why not just go get your t2i to record with then...
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Because the T2i doesnt fit in my pocket, lol.
I had an HTC Evo, and in those days they would drop frames in *good* light. It was extremely frustrating. I bought faster SD card storage, overclocked, switched to performance governor, BFQ scheduler, the works.
I searched high and low for mods that would lock the frame rate. I wasn't the only one searching, gamers are always interested in fps as well.
If that mod was made, I missed it. Maybe it's possible. I'm as curious as you are to see if anyone has info on this. My expectation is no. HTC's camera drivers are closed source and seem to defy this kind of hacking.
Anyway, now you see why, coming from older technology, I'm so grateful for the excellent low light video the One *does* have. ; )
Sent from my PC36100 using xda app-developers app
OP, you aren't the only one who feels the fps in low light video recording drops too low. I'm also annoyed by it. Furthermore I know higher fps is possible because if you record in HDR mode the fps are higher in the same lighting situation. I believe this is because it cranks up the ISO/gain in order to get double the fps or more since it needs high and low exposure frames to combine together behind the scenes. Try HDR mode and see if you get better fps. Downside is it is definitely noisier in low light, can have higher filesizes, and also the sides of picture are significantly cropped to leave some room for electronic image combination/stabilization during the HDR processing.
One other trick you can try is setting the exposure lower, this seems to result in faster shutter speeds/higher fps.
So yes I also wish the ISO and/or fps would be more controllable in the varios video recording modes. I tried some of the other special modes and no luck. Also I wish there was an infinite focus lock, so far I can't find that either. Seems like such a basic feature missing?
You will get a laggy video in a low-light scenario even you managed to lock the fps. Because the device dose need more time for capturing more light in one frame.
So,smoother = darker.Vice-versa.
FPS drop is not acceptable. My 4S can shoot in low light without any drops...so I'm pretty sure it's a software problem that can be fixed by HTC.
QuantifyThis said:
OP, you aren't the only one who feels the fps in low light video recording drops too low. I'm also annoyed by it. Furthermore I know higher fps is possible because if you record in HDR mode the fps are higher in the same lighting situation. I believe this is because it cranks up the ISO/gain in order to get double the fps or more since it needs high and low exposure frames to combine together behind the scenes. Try HDR mode and see if you get better fps. Downside is it is definitely noisier in low light, can have higher filesizes, and also the sides of picture are significantly cropped to leave some room for electronic image combination/stabilization during the HDR processing.
One other trick you can try is setting the exposure lower, this seems to result in faster shutter speeds/higher fps.
So yes I also wish the ISO and/or fps would be more controllable in the varios video recording modes. I tried some of the other special modes and no luck. Also I wish there was an infinite focus lock, so far I can't find that either. Seems like such a basic feature missing?
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I did some more testing. ISO and exposure settings only seem to effect pictures. When it comes to recording videos, we only get one set of options (slow mo, 720 @ 60fps, and HDR). I recorded a bunch of similar situation videos with various ISO and exposures and while it does change on screen, the moment you press the record video, it reverts back to all auto except for the 1 set of options reserved for video recording.
Various ISO/Exposure settings resulted in most videos looking similar and averaged from 20-22 fps. The one I recorded at 720 @ 60 was unwatchable at an average 15 fps. The HDR was well lit and had a tremendous amount of noise yet averaged 17 fps.
For comparison, I recorded the same situation with my iphone 5 on auto and my galaxy s3 on night setting. The iphone 5 had a little more noise than the HTC, exposure was slightly darker than the HTC, but was the video was fluid and yielded an average of 25 fps. GS3 @ Night setting had less noise than the iphone, visibility was darker but the video was smooth at 27 fps.
My conclusion is that both apple and samsung have coded in their recording software to NEVER dip below 24 fps while HTC allows the camera software go as low as 15 frames per second.
In a world where the iphone 5 and HTC one share the same camera technology and share the same lens, this would make sense. But in this world, the HTC has a far superior lens. A wide angle 28mm with OIS at f stop of 2.0 definitely has power to deliver better results against lesser lenses.
I truly hope that somebody or even HTC can unleash the lens to its full capabilities.
M_Woody said:
I've never facepalmed so hard before.
Shutter speed applies for both pictures and videos; with videos, it's the amount of time the sensor (or that particular slide of film, in the 'old days') captures light for a frame in said video.
If it's low light, the video needs to let in more light by increasing the amount of time the sensor captures light for a given frame. Thus increasing the shutter speed.
Now, here's where frame-rate comes into the picture (see what I did there? ;D)...
For example (I'm not using real numbers here, as I don't know what numbers are used for the One, plus maths isn't my strong point. But...) in normal lighting the frame rate is 1/30th of a second, and it's shooting at 30fps. All's well.
However, if it's in 'low light mode', it'll need to lower the shutter speed to 1/20th of a second (again, just example numbers). It'd then need to lower the fps down to 20fps.
TL;DR: pictures and videos both have shutter speed.
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Click to collapse
spot on, thanks for explaining this to the OP. i didnt want to start a discussion about it so thanks.
Completely agree that they need to tweak the vid recording modes to increase fps. Regarding the exposure "working", I have found using a 3rd party recording app (in this case, the dashcam software VideoRegPro) it has exposure settings that do work, and not just in the preview. The upside of cranking down the exposure all the way is you get a much darker picture, but this can somewhat be fixed by also cranking down the contrast setting. You end up with a very flat looking image with not enough color, and also get some blueish noise in black areas. Still hoping a future HTC update improves the low light FPS, at least in one or two of the special video modes. And also hoping for a working infinite focus (useful for a dashcam).
Hi community.
One of the major reasons I got this phone is its claimed 60fps video capture capabilities which I was told was comprable to the iphone 5s'slowmotion mode. Thing is, I have come across something that I was wondering if other G2 owners could confirm.
60 fps video seems to only work under optimum lighting conditions. When indoor or under low light conditions, it drops to as low as 15 fps captures. Thus something Ive confirmed when importing into Adobe premiere. Capture fps is actually variable and depending on lighting conditions, the file is recognized at its slowest framerate. This is very disappointing and raises other questions for me:
1. 60fps is interpolated by cpu and not sensor capable?
2. Sensor cannot compensate hfr with autofocus/shutterspeed?
3. My cpu is too underclocked (24k antutu) to handle hfr.
Any insight would be much appreciated since i have only one more week to exchange for a iphone 5s.
Have you checked out this thread?
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2471900
also constant 60fps issues will cause light issues - likely the cause of the problems here : http://www.imore.com/how-quality-your-iphone-5s-low-light-video - check out morac's comment at Nov 12, 2013 at 9:19 pm
Thanks Andybites.
I didn't expect to be relying on mods to get capabilities they have been marketing to function properly. Nice to see I would have encountered similiar low light issues with Iphone 5s, though their frame rate is still constant as opposed to framerate AND low light issues of the G2's stock camera.
15fps is unacceptable and would rather have consistent framerate so when my footage moves outdoor to indoor within the same shot, my footage won't look like its chugging like a video game being run with a bad gpu.
I'll try the camera mod you suggested and report back. Thanks again.
Rumor has it that both Google and LG are working on a software fix for both their cameras.
Steady frames > light compensation. Simply bad software.
The OnePlus X has no optical image stabilization and so filming by hand without a gimbal results in “shaky” videos to some degree.
There is a quite good filter (for VirtualDub on Windows) to deshake such videos:
https://www.guthspot.se/video/deshaker.htm
To get good results it is crucial to know the rolling shutter value you have to insert there.
So today I took the time and measured the rolling shutter value of the OnePlusX.
I’ve used YumeMichis LineageOS 15.1 ROM with Sultans Camera HAL shooting in 4k (3840x2160 pixel) in 30 fps. I’m using the Cinema FV-5 app to film. (http://www.cinemafv5.com/)
I did different runs and I’ve measured values around 73,65% and 74,01%.
In deshaker I’m now using the rolling shutter value of 74% and it works quite decently.
Note that if you are filming in other resolutions and/or frames per second the rolling shutter value will most probably be different.
Maybe this can be useful for some of you.
Under daylight the OnePlus X with Sultans Camera HAL can give quite decent 4k material.
Andy1767 said:
The OnePlus X has no optical image stabilization and so filming by hand without a gimbal results in “shaky” videos to some degree.
There is a quite good filter (for VirtualDub on Windows) to deshake such videos:
https://www.guthspot.se/video/deshaker.htm
To get good results it is crucial to know the rolling shutter value you have to insert there.
So today I took the time and measured the rolling shutter value of the OnePlusX.
I’ve used YumeMichis LineageOS 15.1 ROM with Sultans Camera HAL shooting in 4k (3840x2160 pixel) in 30 fps. I’m using the Cinema FV-5 app to film. (http://www.cinemafv5.com/)
I did different runs and I’ve measured values around 73,65% and 74,01%.
In deshaker I’m now using the rolling shutter value of 74% and it works quite decently.
Note that if you are filming in other resolutions and/or frames per second the rolling shutter value will most probably be different.
Maybe this can be useful for some of you.
Under daylight the OnePlus X with Sultans Camera HAL can give quite decent 4k material.
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Click to collapse
how do you measure this value? what is the value for 1080p in oos cam
psychem said:
how do you measure this value? what is the value for 1080p in oos cam
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On the site of the filter you can find how to measure it https://www.guthspot.se/video/deshaker.htm
In short: I've put my phone on an old turntable and placed it in front of a straight vertical line.
I've started recording and then turned on the turntable.
You then need 3 frames of the recorded video:
One frame where the turntable was not turning.
One frame where it was turning and where you can see the vertical line plus the next frame where you also have to see the vertical line.
You will notice that on the frame where the phone was rotating, the vertical line is no longer vertical but rather diagonal.
This is because of the rolling shutter. On a sensor with no rolling shutter, the line would still be vertical.
In a photo editing software you then have to measure the horizontal position of the vertical line top and bottom (see manual on the filter site) and you then can calculate the value with the formula stated on the site.
Different resolutions and fps will probably result in different values. The filter site has a list with lots of devices (phones and cameras) with the rolling shutter values and there you can see that for many devices the value is different for different resolutions and/or fps.
The main problem is when there is not enought light and when camera start producing variable framerate material....