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Hello
The other day i surfed to google from my XDA exec.
mobile internet rocks!!
i was wondering how does google know that i surfed in from a pda, cause i think it sent me to
www.google.co.uk/pda
the web page probably detected your screen size and redirected you to a page that was more friendly to you PDA browser. i wish more sites would do this.
www.google.com/pda for us US residents.
LOL
Not the screen size but the type of your internet browser, in this case Pocket IE.
Correct--it's not the screen size.
Although a LOT of your information is sent over the wire, much more than most of us realize, your resolution information is unknown to most websites, unless you explicitly allow it to be given via some kind of an executable that transmits such information. An example would be an embedded ActiveX object in IE for Windows.
Back on topic, yes, your browser information is known, not only to Google, but to every other website you visit. Not only that, the website also knows where you came from (i.e. the http addy) and where you went when you left it. There's a whole bunch of information deemed to be private that we would rather keep to ourselves (such as our surfing habits) that's known to any website that installs a cookie (a common thing nowadays) on your computer.
This is also how Google knows where you are. For example, when I log on, Google send me to the local Saudi page at http://www.google.com.sa/ It knows this information by doing a reverse lookup on your IP address, and comparing it against known databases of geographically assigned IPs. Since IP addresses are assigned and tied to geographical locations, it's easy enough to do, although it's still very disconcerting to see.
Be careful folks, even your searching habits are being tracked by Google. I have nothing to hide, so I don't care, but many folks do. Witness the recent Federal inquiry into the searching habits of the users of major search engines. Yahoo and MSN gave up that information quickly enough but Google is resisting. I don't think it will be able to hold out for very long though.
Imagine...now the fact that you searched for p0rn on the 'net is well known to anyone in the know. Scary, isn't it?
This Privacy Newsbyte brought to you courtesy of XDA-Dev's online donation campaign. Donate or be left in the dust!
thanks monakh
so google can detect both my mobile ip address (is there such a thing?) and my browser, correct?
monakh said:
the website also knows where you came from (i.e. the http addy)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Correct, through the referrer...
monakh said:
and where you went when you left it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Only if you click a link on the site itself, -and- it is handled via a special handler.
No information is sent to a website when you leave it through e.g. a bookmark in your browser, or by typing in a new URL.
Please correct me if I'm wrong
You are correct.
hey i mailed myself (google account) using my adsl modem and using the gprs/3g connection to check the header to see if i could spot an originating ip address
i found one common ip address
Received: by 10.xy.za.b with HTTP; Sat, 18 Feb 2006 05:34:45 -0800 (PST)
i guess this is the google server, correct?
is there any way to prise the originating ip address from an email
That's why there is a registry hack to set Pocket Internet Explorer works like Internet Explorer 6.0.
Tuningszocske said:
That's why there is a registry hack to set Pocket Internet Explorer works like Internet Explorer 6.0.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not entirely... I mean, you could - of course. But it also means that many sites will fail to send you PDA-specific content - which, with most plans/top-ups, means heavy costs.
Identifying PIE as IE6 is more used for stupid websites who check whether the browser is IE6 or above, regardless of whether that is actually required by the site.
There's three parts, the compatibility bit ('(Default) = Mozilla/4.0'), the browser string ('Version = MSIE 6.0') and the platform ('Platform = Windows NT 5.0'). If you leave the last bit intact ('Platform = Windows CE'), then you should still be able to get into stupid sites, while having PDA-friendly sites send you the PDA content.
oh i had not thought about the popups
i guess we wont get(suffer) popups with mobile ie5?
i just posted to this bulletin board to check my ip address
from the pc it looks like this 82.1a.bcd.efg
and fro my cda it looks like 193.abc.def.ghi
That's fine because presumably your mobile device and your home PC are on different networks so they sport different IPs.
IPs are a dead giveaway. In many cases, your position can be 'somewhat' and primitively triangulated to within 5 square miles of where you are. This may not be necessarily true for mobile networks, but those networks know where you are at all times anyway. In fact, there is now regulation in the US that mandates all handset makers to manufacture hardware with GPS functionality built-in. Between the two and a half dozen GPS satellites and your cellular network, you can run but you can't hide
This is, of course, so emergency services can reach you in time of need (in case you are unable to make the call to 911/999).
Of course...
monakh said:
This is, of course, so emergency services can reach you in time of need (in case you are unable to make the call to 911/999).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
off-topic...
Technically it's so they can find you if you do call 911/999/112/whathaveyou but are unable (due to injuries, or duress, etc.) to state your location.
Being able to find you at any time is an added perk but it needs court orders even if you have been reported and officially designated a "missing person". Getting such a court order can take many hours, being declared a missing person can take 24 hours up to 48 hours (depends on the country and exactly what reasons you have to believe the person in question is truely missing).
ZeBoxx said:
monakh said:
This is, of course, so emergency services can reach you in time of need (in case you are unable to make the call to 911/999).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
off-topic...
Technically it's so they can find you if you do call 911/999/112/whathaveyou but are unable (due to injuries, or duress, etc.) to state your location.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ahh yes, I stand corrected.
It's so we CAN make the call and are unable to state the location. That WOULD make sense. However, like you said, there are legal hurdles, although at least in the U.S., they are fewer and far between.
is there any ip address list out there which tells me which ip addresses are allocated to which country?
are ip addresses bunched like telephone numbers
e.g. +1 is north america
+3 and +4 is europe
+96 & +97 middle east
nope, that's not how they work
organisations can get an IP from their service provider, who get blocks from their service providers, who get bigger blocks from places like RIPE, who in turn get huge blocks from ARIN.
But if it's a specific IP you're interested in, try VisualRoute
It's not perfect, but I thought I would share what I wrote to get free TV listings. Feedback is welcome, but I can't guarantee I will get a chance to do a revision.
TVQuick v1.0
What it is
I wanted a free way to check TV listings, I wrote this and it works for me
It downloads the HTML text for a 3 hour window of your choosing from Yahoo TV
It parses this code into a text view of the first 54 channels of your provider. My provider has > 700 channels so I limited it to 54.
The program saves the last quide and will display it on the next startup
What it isn't
Tested only on a WM6 PPC 6800 Mogul
Tested only with my provider - not sure what will have with a different provider with fewer channels
Slow - the download is pretty fast, but the HTML parsing is slow, be patient or use the Abort option
To Use
Unzip TVQuick.zip and move "TVQuick.exe" and "HTTP.dll" to a directory of your choice (I use a folder called TVQuick in My Documents)
TVQuick will create files for preferences and the last guide in the same folder as TVQuick
Go to Yahoo TV in your web browser at "http://tv.yahoo.com/", select "TV LISTINGS". You will need to logon and select a provider
Run TVQuick and enter the provider code in preferences (the code is after "provider=" in the URL: http://tv.yahoo.com/listings?starttime=1199635200&showFavorites=1&provider=132024)
Known Deficiencies
When first run, sometime a resource error will appear - just restart and it should be OK
No horizontal scroll bar
Some plain text junk makes it through the parser
Slow
Landscape/display rotation not yet implemented
D-Pad and other subtil user interface desires not yet implemented
Looks promising. I have a question though...I am unable to get my provider code from Yahoo. The link stays tv.yahoo.com.
Also, I made a cab file for the files if you're interested I could post it.
really nice prog. does it function with italian tv list?
the url syntax is a bit different
http://it.tv.yahoo.net/programmi-tv/rai-uno/default.asp
jamesus said:
Looks promising. I have a question though...I am unable to get my provider code from Yahoo. The link stays tv.yahoo.com.
Also, I made a cab file for the files if you're interested I could post it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the cab, I may make some changes so I will wait on that.
Try this, first login to Yahoo (It will have your login name in the upper right hand corner of the page). From tv.yahoo.com, select "TV LISTINGS" under "TV HOME", this should get you the listings. On the right hand side of the page, the provider will be listed if you have already set it up, otherwise you must enter it in. If you can use yahoo to display your local TV listings, the provider ID will be in the URL: "http://tv.yahoo.com/listings?starttime=1199840400&showFavorites=1&provider=32105425" - in this case 32105425.
Good Luck.
Double reply
dodba said:
really nice prog. does it function with italian tv list?
the url syntax is a bit different
http://it.tv.yahoo.net/programmi-tv/rai-uno/default.asp
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks- it might. Unfortunately I can't read enough italian to get the listing. If you logon to Yahoo and use it to get your local information, it might work. The guide needs to be customized to your location using the normal browser. The URL should end up with some type of time code and location/provider code (the one you have looks generic, like tv.yahoo.com). Once we have this we should be able to make it work. Let me know.
mitch1138 said:
Thanks for the cab, I may make some changes so I will wait on that.
Try this, first login to Yahoo (It will have your login name in the upper right hand corner of the page). From tv.yahoo.com, select "TV LISTINGS" under "TV HOME", this should get you the listings. On the right hand side of the page, the provider will be listed if you have already set it up, otherwise you must enter it in. If you can use yahoo to display your local TV listings, the provider ID will be in the URL: "http://tv.yahoo.com/listings?starttime=1199840400&showFavorites=1&provider=32105425" - in this case 32105425.
Good Luck.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What I had to do since I already had my provider set up was change the date or time of what I was using in order to find the provider number. Works great now. Thanks!
I've been using T-mobile touchscreen devices for 4 years, and I STILL have problems with basics of accessing wifi at cafes, hotspots, etc.
Connecting to these wifi networks is not a problem; there are multiple ways to do that with my T-Mobile Wing, for instance, but the problem is with accessing the wifi provider's login webpage where you are asked to agree to their terms and conditions.
OperaMini is my primary browser, but I have never been able to access a wifi "terms and conditions login page" via OperaMini, I am guessing due to it's a java app.
Yes, I can use I.E., but it is so damn slow and cumbersome, just to load and then try to hit your default homepage, then having to manually select "Homepage", then have it reload.
There must be better ways. For Starbucks usage, T-Mobile has its own "Hotspot Login Utility" which is supposed to handle all of that. I have never had it simply work... wherein i go to starbucks, launch Hotspot utility, and have it turn on wifi- then auto connect to the ATT network using my stored username & password in the HotSpot Utility.
So what are the best ways people have found to minimize this process and connect fast... I get a headache every time I want to ultilize one of my phone's best features.
For me the ideal app/utility would behave this way:
a) I am using my regular GPRS data connection, which is always on, and which I use for SMS or checking email with opera mini wherever I may be.
b) I enter a place that has free wifi, but requires you access their webpage to accept terms and conditions.
c) I want to click on one utility that loads quickly, turns on wifi, launches & opens that webpage (whether loading a fast non-java browser, or some direct internet connection), then upon logging into that establishment's wifi, I can close that util and have OperaMini launch and use wifi, not gprs data.
What is the app/apps I need? thank you.
I have no clue, but I'd love the same thing. PIE seems like it's the only browser that will re-direct to the login page automatically. Have you tried just saving the page as a favorite in opera mini? I know it's a pain in the butt, you'll have to cut-and-paste the address from PIE to mini, but that might work for a particular location.
After making a connection with PIE, I can usually switch browsers (I use mini most of the time, too), but the connection seems to drop frequently. Fortunately, my main coffee shop doesn't have one of those forced logins.
Yes, I have tried saving the "homepage" wifi login URL to OperaMini
It doesn't work. ... well at least I am glad I am not the only one with this problem.... I feel totally out of the loop on this, which seems like a Wifi-101 question ! thanks for replying. (I have also asked the great and powerful Menneisyys on this browser thread. Hopefully he will have the perfect answer!)
Farmer Ted said:
I have no clue, but I'd love the same thing. PIE seems like it's the only browser that will re-direct to the login page automatically. Have you tried just saving the page as a favorite in opera mini? I know it's a pain in the butt, you'll have to cut-and-paste the address from PIE to mini, but that might work for a particular location.
After making a connection with PIE, I can usually switch browsers (I use mini most of the time, too), but the connection seems to drop frequently. Fortunately, my main coffee shop doesn't have one of those forced logins.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
quicksite, I use the Iris Browser for logging into the free Mc Donalds Free WiFi (yes, most if not all Mc Donalds has free WiFi here in Australia!).
Though, I don't actually remember being able to access the net using Opera Mini. But that may be due to the hotspot restrictions more than anything else. So YMMV there.
Also, note that Opera Mini is just a thin client. It must have internet access to be able to access anything at all. Everything gets encoded server side before it reaches your device, hence why you can't use Opera Mini to login with.
And some hotspot providers require you to keep the browser with the login page open whilst you surf. The Iris browser allows for multitabs, so you can always just open another tab to surf.
I use this for logging in automatically on my campus network:
http://devicescape.com/
Devicescape : hey this looks pretty promising
but lots to first figure out re how everything gets routed, any hidden costs, etc. Thanks very much for posting!
tene20 said:
I use this for logging in automatically on my campus network:
http://devicescape.com/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I can't wait to explore this. I figured there had to be some completely innovative ways of handling this very basic function. But just from a cursory reading, so far, it looks like there are many parts to this enterprise... i.e., registering your device with this service, installing EasyWiFi application, there's something about FON network which I don't yet understand... like maybe your device logs onto a cafe's wifi service, supplying that service with "devicescape's" agreement to Terms of Service. Then routing from the provider's wifi network to something called the FON network... But at this point I have to do a bunch more reading.
{
"lightbox_close": "Close",
"lightbox_next": "Next",
"lightbox_previous": "Previous",
"lightbox_error": "The requested content cannot be loaded. Please try again later.",
"lightbox_start_slideshow": "Start slideshow",
"lightbox_stop_slideshow": "Stop slideshow",
"lightbox_full_screen": "Full screen",
"lightbox_thumbnails": "Thumbnails",
"lightbox_download": "Download",
"lightbox_share": "Share",
"lightbox_zoom": "Zoom",
"lightbox_new_window": "New window",
"lightbox_toggle_sidebar": "Toggle sidebar"
}
For everyone else: Here's what I found in their Terms of Service, which describes a bit how they handle the agreement to wifi provider Terms of Service:
Account-Free Providers
Some providers offer access to their hotspot network without requiring you to create an account. The Service has the capability to automatically connect you to these types of networks without your submission of any provider information to Devicescape. If you wish to use these account-free providers, you may be unable to view their end user license agreements and/or terms of service. You acknowledge and agree that Devicescape may automatically log you in to such providers and may accept end user license agreements and/or terms of service from such providers on your behalf.
Due to wireless device limitations, the Service may or may not allow you to select whether you wish to use these account-free providers. If you do not agree with Devicescape's process of accepting such end user license agreement and/or terms of service from such providers, then you must disable this capability, provided that the Service allows this capability to be disabled. If the Service does not allow for disabling use of these account-free networks, your sole recourse is to cease your use of the Service.
Certain account-free providers request your email address in order to provide access. The Service will allow you to opt-in to supplying your email address whenever requested by such providers, and will not submit your email address without your agreement. In the circumstance where you opt-in to this arrangement, Devicescape is not responsible in any way for the use of your email address by such providers.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Then there's this, re adding your provider to Devicescape's network. They say this is free.
Submit A New Wi-Fi Hotspot
Devicescape supports many hotspots and wireless networks, but if your favorites aren't yet supported, you can help us add them. Start by collecting some info and use this web form to submit it us. We will process submissions on a time-available basis.
Personal Network?
We can only list hotspots in our directory that are operated by organizations and intended for general access by the public, subscribers, students, etc. If this is a personal (e.g., individual or private) network, you can add it your own Devicescape account by using the "Add a Personal Network" button on the "My Wi-Fi" page or clicking here.
Open network?
We are currently only adding hotspots that have a welcome or login page to our directory. If this hotspot does not have a welcome or login page, you can add it your own Devicescape account by using the "Add a Personal Network" button on the "My Wi-Fi" page or clicking here.
Network requires 802.1x or WPA Enterprise?
Unfortunately we cannot support 802.1x or WPA Enterprise networks at this time. The form below can be used to submit networks that use web-based captive portal authentication only. If you have a network that only uses WEP or WPA Personal authentication, you can add it your own Devicescape account by using the "Add a Personal Network" button on the "My Wi-Fi" page or clicking here.
To submit a new hotspot, follow the basic instructions below, or view more detailed instructions.
Record the provider's Network Name or SSID.
Save all welcome and login pages.
Be sure to capture every page required to get you to online access.
Submit the info to us via the form below.
We will notify you when the new hotspot network is available. Thanks for contributing to building out the Devicescape!
Basic Information: (required) SSID: Name of the hotspot provider:
(e.g., "Wi-Fi Everywhere" or "Hotspots “R”Us") Name of the location:
(e.g., "Joe's Tea Shop") Address:
(Street, City, Region, Country, e.g., "1 Bay St, Toronto, ON, CA") Home page URL for location or provider: Does this Hotspot have a welcome page? no yes Welcome page: Does this Hotspot have a login page? no yes Login Page: Is 802.1X or WPA Enterprise required? no yes In order to add an 802.1X or WPA Enterprise network, we need to have the following information: EAP type (TTLS, PEAP), tunneled EAP type (EAP MS-CHAPv2, PAP, etc.), WPA Version, Certificate Domain, Key Mgmt (Dynamic WEP, WPA Enterprise), Cipher (TKIP, CCMP). If possible, please supply a URL for a web page that describes this information. If not, include the information below. 802.1X information URL (or details):
Additional Information: Provider support page URL: Comments:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm just starting to investigate this whole offering... so I'd appreciate it if anyone sees anything just within these quoted sections that sounds ill-advisable?
Finally, for now, here's a video that describes how iphone's use their service, as indicator of how it works:
Here's something I found in Dev/Hacking forum - WiFi Monster
[Jul 23][WiFi Monster v1.0.52.149] The best WiFi software ever
Download:
http://www.wifimonster.net/downloads.php
Stuff like this that shows why iphone is winning the war. It's 2009 and still a hassle to get on to a captive portal !!!
firefly123 said:
Stuff like this that shows why iphone is winning the war. It's 2009 and still a hassle to get on to a captive portal !!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In my opinion, Apple makes it easier to find apps in ONE place...but that doesn't mean there isn't a solution for WM. And definitely don't want to get into the Apple vs WM crap. Windows mobile has many versions of different apps and are scattered everywhere. Looking for them is the challenging part. So far, I have accumulated over 12gb worth of apps for windows mobile-this includes some upgrades, mods. Probably would have had more if I was into cooked Roms.
With my HTC Touch Pro, I am using Opera Mobile v9.5 v2808- a modified version with some Flash support (found it here). Before I screwed up my wifi- i was able to get online at Barnes & Nobles, McDonald's, Borders, home network and many mom and pops coffee shops with NO issues.
I used this OLD app, Hitchiker, that worked on my Touch Pro.
montecristo1 said:
With my HTC Touch Pro, I am using Opera Mobile v9.5 v2808- a modified version with some Flash support (found it here). ...i was able to get online ...with NO issues... used this OLD app, Hitchiker, that worked on my Touch Pro.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I hope this works for me, thanks for posting. (I've also been meaning to download the modified Opera Mobile browser). Let me ask you, though: It's the security settings and acceptance that make it so cumbersome.
Actually I am thankful that there ARE such security warnings when trying to log onto a non-secure public access point. But .... I should really only have to say "OKAY" once. With Internet Explorer, and with the browser I started using most, Netfront, it took at least 4 if not 6 "OKAY" responses to switching to/from secure page etc. My original post was longer. But the issue for me is: *Sometimes* when I go to a coffee house it's to grab a coffee, check email, send a movie file or picture file, and then go, sometimes to catch bus or train. So I don't have all day. And I have found over and over again that by the time it takes me to accomplish those approximately 15 clicks to activate wifi and launch a new browser and accept login agreement including all the security acceptance, I would have more quickly gotten my email and even uploaded a large set of photo files by just staying connected to Edge and forgetting the whole damn wifi attempt... I've missed trains in San Francisco many a time, seriously, just from trying to take advantage of wifi speed at a cafe and going through so many ridiculous steps. Many a time by the time I had all the clicks accepted and I was able to browse freely, my train was there and I had to run -- completely defeating the whole experience.
Two other comments:
(1) I finally found a utility that was promising: Peek .... but it would be "sabotaged" by the inconsistent behavior of AKtoggle and other wifi on/wifi off utilities avail, vs having to click Settings > Connections > Communication Manager > wifi on > then wifi settings just to select the access point. I have never ever had anyone's version of a wifi on/ wifi off toggle button work consistently and normally. Every other time you try turning wifi on, and no, it doesn;t work. I've come to find out that if your regular edge data connection is either on or off, then the toggle doesn't work, which means once again going to Communicaton Manager and tapping through to the primary command, then once your device sees wifi access points, you still then have to use the other tool (like "Peek") to select the access point... or follow the etxra 4 clicks to do it within the Communication Manager.
(2) I'm completely platform agnostic as I use macs, PCs, WM and now android devices, and if the functions work and I can get the task done, i really don't care whose name is on the object or software... But I have to agree with firefly123, it's stuff like this that Apple knows how to solve with smooth simplicity... But it goes further than that. Apple/iPhone users have a conditioning that automatically expects stuff like this to be simple, whereas I was astounded by, on the other thread I posted about this same login issue, WM users were just fine with the multiple steps, and quite surprised I was even asking/complaining...in other words, a conditioning that says "what's another 3 or 4 or 5 or 6 clicks, as long as you can get the whole process done in a reasonable amount of time?".
That's what baffled me most. I love XDA... yet I was very surprised by the huge yaaaaaaaawwwwwnnnnn I got on this issue: cumbersome and multi-stepped is just fine with hundreds of thousands of Windows Mobile users. Meanwhile I miss my bus or train from staying to finish that last step and finally access wifi to upload my pics... when using Edge would have ultimately been faster. Bizarre.
quicksite said:
I hope this works for me, thanks for posting. (I've also been meaning to download the modified Opera Mobile browser). Let me ask you, though: It's the security settings and acceptance that make it so cumbersome.
Actually I am thankful that there ARE such security warnings when trying to log onto a non-secure public access point. But .... I should really only have to say "OKAY" once. With Internet Explorer, and with the browser I started using most, Netfront, it took at least 4 if not 6 "OKAY" responses to switching to/from secure page etc. My original post was longer. But the issue for me is: *Sometimes* when I go to a coffee house it's to grab a coffee, check email, send a movie file or picture file, and then go, sometimes to catch bus or train. So I don't have all day. And I have found over and over again that by the time it takes me to accomplish those approximately 15 clicks to activate wifi and launch a new browser and accept login agreement including all the security acceptance, I would have more quickly gotten my email and even uploaded a large set of photo files by just staying connected to Edge and forgetting the whole damn wifi attempt... I've missed trains in San Francisco many a time, seriously, just from trying to take advantage of wifi speed at a cafe and going through so many ridiculous steps. Many a time by the time I had all the clicks accepted and I was able to browse freely, my train was there and I had to run -- completely defeating the whole experience.
Two other comments:
(1) I finally found a utility that was promising: Peek .... but it would be "sabotaged" by the inconsistent behavior of AKtoggle and other wifi on/wifi off utilities avail, vs having to click Settings > Connections > Communication Manager > wifi on > then wifi settings just to select the access point. I have never ever had anyone's version of a wifi on/ wifi off toggle button work consistently and normally. Every other time you try turning wifi on, and no, it doesn;t work. I've come to find out that if your regular edge data connection is either on or off, then the toggle doesn't work, which means once again going to Communicaton Manager and tapping through to the primary command, then once your device sees wifi access points, you still then have to use the other tool (like "Peek") to select the access point... or follow the etxra 4 clicks to do it within the Communication Manager.
(2) I'm completely platform agnostic as I use macs, PCs, WM and now android devices, and if the functions work and I can get the task done, i really don't care whose name is on the object or software... But I have to agree with firefly123, it's stuff like this that Apple knows how to solve with smooth simplicity... But it goes further than that. Apple/iPhone users have a conditioning that automatically expects stuff like this to be simple, whereas I was astounded by, on the other thread I posted about this same login issue, WM users were just fine with the multiple steps, and quite surprised I was even asking/complaining...in other words, a conditioning that says "what's another 3 or 4 or 5 or 6 clicks, as long as you can get the whole process done in a reasonable amount of time?".
That's what baffled me most. I love XDA... yet I was very surprised by the huge yaaaaaaaawwwwwnnnnn I got on this issue: cumbersome and multi-stepped is just fine with hundreds of thousands of Windows Mobile users. Meanwhile I miss my bus or train from staying to finish that last step and finally access wifi to upload my pics... when using Edge would have ultimately been faster. Bizarre.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So iphones NEVER take you to the WIFI providers conditions acceptance screen? can some one verify this? cause if so thats good, but truthfully I dont have as much problem as you are talking about on my WM xperia. I use wifi monster or the comm manager that comes with SPB mobile shell and then access opera mobile (9.5), the terms and conditions screen loads up I accept it and thats pretty much it. No real hastle and its easy and quick. I dont know why you are having so much problem. just for comparasin can you outline the steps it takes to connect an iphone?
But at any rate for the developers out there its somthing to consider, a browser with access to a comm manager in it.
regards
Chris
Chris, thanks... Sorry I was pontificating there. Let me clear up a few things. (1) I don't have an iphone; I've never had one in my hand for more than a half hour exploring, so have never used it in "real life" scenarios. (2) I wasn't suggesting Apple could magically make all the login and acceptance requirements go away! I just meant that they do focus on exactly these kinds of common bottlenecks, to try to reduce the clutter of steps, and get the goal accomplished. (3) #2 above is not based on my having used an iphone at a coffeehouse, nor watching someone with an iphone login at a coffee house. I was commenting because this thread had been dormant for a good while, then suddenly yesterday someone commented about frustration he was having with this very issue -- and HE concluded something like "this is why Apple is winning the war".
I never took that as any kind of fanboy comment, or instigating remark. I am just imagining this person had some similar problems that I have had, and searched XDA, and came upon this thread -- because there are no other threads that I know of on this site on this subject matter of wifi utility to help smooth out the coffee house login process. And he probably read thru it thinking at the end was a solution... only to find the thread dropped off because nobody presented a solution... I merely did my best to comb the web and XDA to find potential solutions, but it stopped there because most of the utilities were about turning your device's wifi on or off, then selecting an access point. But that's not the problem that needs solving.
What I was suggesting is that just like a Google mail app connects to the web within its own UI, and NOT opening up a browser, which on some older devices like mine does take a while just to get the browser open and loaded to its home page... And it queries for username and password then pulls in your mail. And just like T-mobile has a Hotspot Utility that is a very niche specialized version of such a wifi utility limited to its access point locations like starbucks and airports and fed ex kinkos offcies, it similarly establishes a web connection without opening a browser. But it's purpose is exactly what I am talking about: to make that stuff happen as much as possible in the background so that you then get confirmation of being logged in and connected,and you can then use whatever browser you like, including opera mini.
So, though I am not a programmer, it seems to me this would not be so hard to master if someone who IS a developer applied some resource time to the problem (but that's just it, it doesn't seem to be a problem that most feel warrants any resource time applied to it). To me it would be very simple.
(1) Click a button and it queries the state of all data connections on your phone noting if wifi is on or off, and makes sure to turn wifi on if needed. (2) Like most wifi utilities, it then seeks the strongest connection and tries to login to any unsecured access point, or, if it recognizes even a secured access point, follows a login proceedure. (3) I am not sure how best to explain step 3 but to me it happens in the background: A dedicated web client/ thin-browser (something to build) opens and issues the normal commands that = "open my browser and after it loads, hit the home button to then have the browser connect to the coffee house's login page. (4) My hope would be that at this point the thin browser client can present the login page, user clicks "i agree" as normal, then (5) the connection to the wifi access point in made, and (6) the utility puts itself away, opening my preferred or default browser... and (7) I just start using my browser which is now connected via wifi.
As a user experience designer I can envision this thin client speeding up this process because it doesn't have to load a full featured browser, and it includes the wifi on/off function, essentially resulting in this, as far as user is concerned:
(1) arrive at a wifi spot that requires accepting TOS, click "SuperWifiLogonUtility" and all the wifi on/wifi off stuff happens in background.
(2) I select the access point i am trying to connect to, done.
(3) Background processes occur, and the next thing I see is the wifi provider's login page and I check "yes, i agree"
(4) That goes away, my preferred browser opens and I begin using browser connected to wifi.
Of course, I could be wrong, and perhaps this is complicated. It doesn't seem so to me
hungry81 said:
So iphones NEVER take you to the WIFI providers conditions acceptance screen? can some one verify this? cause if so thats good, but truthfully I dont have as much problem as you are talking about on my WM xperia. I use wifi monster or the comm manager that comes with SPB mobile shell and then access opera mobile (9.5), the terms and conditions screen loads up I accept it and thats pretty much it. No real hastle and its easy and quick. I dont know why you are having so much problem. just for comparasin can you outline the steps it takes to connect an iphone?
But at any rate for the developers out there its somthing to consider, a browser with access to a comm manager in it.
regards
Chris
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
OperaMini uses a built-in proxy server called Opera Turbo that loads the page from Opera's server, compresses it that send the page to your device in order to reduce bandwidth and increase speeds over mobile networks. My best guess is the the hotspot login page you are trying to access can only be reached locally and is therefor not accessible using Opera Turbo. If you turn off Opera Turbo from the setting page you should be able to use it as any other browser.
a lot has changed in two years!
kellywt said:
OperaMini uses a built-in proxy server called Opera Turbo that loads the page from Opera's server, compresses it that send the page to your device in order to reduce bandwidth and increase speeds over mobile networks. My best guess is the the hotspot login page you are trying to access can only be reached locally and is therefor not accessible using Opera Turbo. If you turn off Opera Turbo from the setting page you should be able to use it as any other browser.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
a lot has changed in two years!
These apps allow you to remotely access your phone from a web browser. However, they all run a web server on the phone, and I cannot connect to any of the over 3g (Verizon).
LazyDroid Web Desktop
Remote Desktop
Remote Web Desktop
I want to move the web server off phone, and (hopefully) onto private sites.google.com site. App Engine might be necessary, but I'm hoping this could be done solely in JS.
The hosting site would provide the UI, and interact with the phone using C2DM (the magic that powers Chrome2Phone, GMail, and installing apps from the web Market).
The UI is pretty obvious. It just needs a whiz to create HTML, Javascript, etc.
The C2DM backend is a still a bit mystifying to me... and searching for c2dm and javascript does not yield any obvious working implementations. But it seems plausible. Push a command to the phone, phone returns/uploads data to website, and UI updates.
Then there is the Android end. Well, there are the 3 projects above, Tasker for a quasi-hackish approach, and RPC (promising, but it seems like a WIP).
Thoughts? Volunteers? Geniuses?
Ooo... 2 birds with one stone!
This would also kill 2 birds with one stone.
No more typing in dynamic IP addresses! You get to use DNS to handle the connections. Bookmark your site in your desktop browser (it is always the same!). And set a preference in the Android app.
On lazydroid i've in planning some kind of trick that will let you connect behind firewall ... similar to a vpn...
CloudsITA said:
On lazydroid i've in planning some kind of trick that will let you connect behind firewall ... similar to a vpn...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I tried it again last week, and it is still unsuccessful. Webkey is currently the only application that I can successfully use to reach my phone.
Now, I could be wrong, but I believe all of these apps run a web server on the phone. I get a lovely, private 10.x.x.x IP address, which I can't reverse the route to. I have tried and failed to get DynDNS to work.
I have been looking into a solution since my original post. I have not had any time to do code squat, but I have loosely figured out all of the parts.
The big architectural difference I have been seeking is removing the server from the phone. I am not an Android expert, but I don't believe it even requires a running service. (Thank you, C2DM.)
With the app-webservice separation, you can work a "protocol" that reduces the overall bandwidth used... and thus improve battery life. Put all the "hard work" on a webserver, and (things get fuzzy here) possibly push it off onto the client browser (JS).
C2DM Browser Links
I could probably make something like WebKey but with C2DM and some more features. If you want you can give suggestions and I'll start making on saturday (after my exams). It would probably be possible in javascript for the actual sending from server and php just for logging in to your google account. The phone would just be registered on the server and no services (just as you wanted )
nebkat said:
I could probably make something like WebKey but with C2DM and some more features. If you want you can give suggestions and I'll start making on saturday (after my exams). It would probably be possible in javascript for the actual sending from server and php just for logging in to your google account. The phone would just be registered on the server and no services (just as you wanted )
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am not sure "more features" is necessarily the direction I'm headed. I am focused on making a "seamless" experience (i.e. less separation of phone and computer).
I was headed to App Engine (Python bias + easy Google integration). I have a project created. I haven't pulled together the various examples to make the core, but it seems <naive>simple</naive>. Stir in some templates, CSS, a sprinkling of JS, and voila!
The big "tricky" part that I can't convert from f***ing magic to a clear approach is the data link in the server. I want to avoid any storage to a Google disk, or otherwise, even temporarily. No stored data = easy privacy policy.
nebkat, if you're really chomping at the bit to code, here's my Android client concept.
- C2DM is a wake-up call. (cheat an borrow ChromeToPhone's ID to begin with)
- Connect to web server, send "I'm here," and wait for further instructions (Channels API/Comet/AJAX/.........)
- make the command set extensible
- each command is blockable in the client. (Permission control is set on the phone, not remotely.)
- After N minutes of no activity, send a "good bye," disconnect from the server, and fade into the background.
Don't worry, I'm very experienced with the server side stuff and I know exactly what you want. The only information stored on the sever side would be google account, the device c2dm registration id and some logging features just for statistics. A password could be set on the phone that would be sha512 hashed on the ajax request and would be sent to the phone. Even if a hacker found the hash, it would be useless without being logged in to the persons google account or knowing the server side auth token.
For now i'll just make the reciever, processor and command output and later on the extra security and ui stuff. It will work exactly the same way as Chrome2Phone except it will have server side php and the different commands. The connection from pc to phone will be something like this.
user command -> ajax request -> php c2dm request -> phone
phone -> php server http request -> controller page status
BTW I'm saving up for a Nexus S, how much would people pay for this type of app? There would definitely be a free version, but I just need to get the Nexus S because I have a Galaxy Spica now and it isn't the best for app development. I'm new to how stuff at xda works, would a donate version get me enoguh for the Nexus?
nebkat said:
Don't worry, ... <snip> ... auth token.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Alrighty then. I'm feeling like I can stop contemplating implementing this.
BTW I'm saving up for a Nexus S, how much would people pay for this type of app? There would definitely be a free version, but I just need to get the Nexus S because I have a Galaxy Spica now and it isn't the best for app development. I'm new to how stuff at xda works, would a donate version get me enoguh for the Nexus?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Since I was learning the ins and outs of App Engine, I read their quota rules and realized if this were popular it would require funding. I don't know where you are going to your web server, but I assume you'll have to pay someone to keep it running. But I had thought about $$$ already.
"Give away the razor, and sell them the blades."
Make the app free, no feature restrictions.
You get your money through various "membership" levels on the server. (See the account levels at fastmail.fm for an example.) So, you can use the app for free, but you only get, say, 2-3 MB of traffic per day, and only X sessions per day. Need more? See the pricing chart.
user command -> ajax request -> php c2dm request -> phone
phone -> php server http request -> controller page status
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
user command -> php server http request -> phone
phone -> php server http request -> controller page status
user command -> php server http request -> phone
lather, rinse, repeat.
C2DM is not deterministic, and acts up in low signal conditions. So, I made a decision to only use C2DM to initiate a session. Once both ends are connected to the server, everything goes over HTTP.
Oh.... and not that we need another Lookout/Phone Finder, but a shared-secret SMS code for the case where "they" have shut down the data connection.
I have my own server nebkat.com and there is nothing on it anyway.
The only other way to make "push" requests to the phone is with WebSockets. It would probably be better than c2dm because we have full control over what gets sent (google limits some requests). The advantage of WebSockets is that they send no header information which means that we could send our messages in 20 to 30 bytes.
I'll look into more detail on friday.
With web sockets won't you need to ensure the phone has a routable, external IP address? I know, for one, t-mobile does not expose an external IP address for their phones. Unless, of course, if the phone is connected over WiFi. C2DM works great for me (I have used a couple of apps with it and it is really useful).
MrGibbage said:
With web sockets won't you need to ensure the phone has a routable, external IP address? I know, for one, t-mobile does not expose an external IP address for their phones. Unless, of course, if the phone is connected over WiFi. C2DM works great for me (I have used a couple of apps with it and it is really useful).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, WS is server initiated and the ip address' shouldn't make a difference.
MrGibbage said:
With web sockets won't you need to ensure the phone has a routable, external IP address? I know, for one, t-mobile does not expose an external IP address for their phones. Unless, of course, if the phone is connected over WiFi. C2DM works great for me (I have used a couple of apps with it and it is really useful).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You need an valid external IP address if you are attempting to initiate contact with your phone, which is why the 4-5 apps I've mentioned do not work on carriers like t-mo and verizon.
But the phone can establish a connection, and the carrier NATs (or whatever) will handle the routing for outgoing and incoming data.
I think the right questions are: Will Verizon/T-Mo allow the ports and protocol for WebSockets? Do Android and desktop browsers implement the draft API correctly and consistently?
I like C2DM. I works well when you have a good connection. But there are 3 issues with it.
1) The message size limit is 1024 bytes. Not ideal for file transfers.
2) In a poor signal areas, since the service retries sending messages, you will get delayed and/or duplicate messages. I work in a large "concrete" building, so I get this behavior often enough that I don't want to rely on it.
3) I believe there is a limit on the number of messages you can send. So, hunting around the filesystem could hit this limit (but unlikely in reality... I hope.)
It would be interesting to see exactly how those apps handle all of the data. Do they only use C2DM, or do they hand over to another protocol?
Ok my exams are over and I am starting with it. I'll give updates on this thread
Hello everyone !
I want to create an android app, that should take input username and password and then login to a website. Basically any website. Well, I am trying to create an app for a website with login page in .aspx form.
I googled regarding this but was unable to find some effective solution. Almost all websites I searched contained only login page design and a simple java code which equals username and password and then makes a toast text. I need some info regarding how to login into that particular page with active session.
Let login page be: 127.0.0.1/login.aspx
I am not a beginner and have developed few apps. This project is very important for me. So please help me regarding this.
Anykind of help is highly appreciated. Please do help.
Thanks
Come On Guys , Show some effort
Making apps "for website" in my opinion could be easily sorted turning the app "server side"... read my comment at this post.
By following my advice you have several advantages:
Users don't need to update their app when new version comes out
Harder to crack (unless they hack your server...)
Compatibility with different platforms/os
No disk-space needed on user device
If you really really need java code for that (as it's a school project requiring java or something ...) have you considered using raw sockets (probably not the best idea, but you asked for "Any kind of help" so... ) ? You said you have experience (I don't with java so can't help with the code, but I used similar technique in python, php, etc, ...) so it shouldn't be hard to find a simple code snippet for handling raw packet sending... Use your PC and fire up Wireshark or any other sniffer and debug the communication between client-server. Look at the header informations and data sent, and it will be easy to replicate those request-response via raw socket.