Database Users

Certified Software Engineer (Concurrent Enrollment/ High-school project)

Hello there folks. Let me begin by introducing myself and my situation. My name is Damian, I am in the twelfth-grade and I am currently enrolled in my high-school's concurrent enrollment program with one of the local universities in which I have to write a paper concerning the field of software engineering.
I started this post with the intention of finding and asking certified software engineers a few questions concerning their professions.
I came to this particular forum because of the many brilliant folk here, and my assumption that certainly a portion of the active members are certified software engineers.
-Many thanks in advanced for your replies and imput,
-Damian

damiandarkwater said:
Hello there folks. Let me begin by introducing myself and my situation. My name is Damian, I am in the twelfth-grade and I am currently enrolled in my high-school's concurrent enrollment program with one of the local universities in which I have to write a paper concerning the field of software engineering.
I started this post with the intention of finding and asking certified software engineers a few questions concerning their professions.
I came to this particular forum because of the many brilliant folk here, and my assumption that certainly a portion of the active members are certified software engineers.
-Many thanks in advanced for your replies and imput,
-Damian
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I can answer questions in this field as I am a Software Engineer. I would be happy to give a young person such as yourself advice.
I actually didn't go into college right after high school, I wish I had but I incountered allot of hardship around your age. When I was 22 I went back to school and payed my own way through college, slept in my car in the college parking lot and lived off of peanut butter and jelly sandwhichs.
Honestly its your first job in software thats the hardest to get, but if your persistent you'll get it after that if your perform its pretty much smooth sailing. A good example is how everybody lately has had a hard time finding jobs (bad economy), and even I was laid off from a job where the company was doing great and then went south and I went on the market looking around and recruiters were calling non-stop and I had 2 jobs (one short term getting paid insane amounts of money for 200 hours of work, and then a long term contract after that), I took a vacation to vegas, paid of credit card debt and then started my long term contract.
So ask away!
Edit:
Oh I currently work for a large telecom company where I work ont here provisioning software. My main expertise is Java (j2se, j2ee blah blah) I also write reports (crystal, jfree and actuate), I also have alot of side skills like jsp, ajax, jquery. I actually have wirtten code professionally in all the major langs like c, c#, j# asp.net. As a software developer you constantly need to evolve and progress. I aslo done graphics professionally and If I had it my way I write videos games if I could but alas the life of a programmer is allot less glamorous than most people no.

Many thanks, I'm sorry to hear about your tough times, but I'm glad to hear things have settled out.
I want to say its great that your able to help me and thank you for your tux theme and scripts.
I am actually looking into dealing with my computers as a profession after collage.
So I begin (thanks again):
What courses and or certifications do you need.
What is a typical day in your job like?
Do you enjoy your job?
And you can tell me anything else that you believe to be important that I may have missed.
-Thanks again
Damian

damiandarkwater said:
Many thanks, I'm sorry to hear about your tough times, but I'm glad to hear things have settled out.
I want to say its great that your able to help me and thank you for your tux theme and scripts.
I am actually looking into dealing with my computers as a profession after collage.
So I begin (thanks again):
What courses and or certifications do you need.
What is a typical day in your job like?
Do you enjoy your job?
And you can tell me anything else that you believe to be important that I may have missed.
-Thanks again
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My tough times where years ago. I've been in the field for almost 10 years.
The first thing you want todo is get a bachelors degree in computer science. Take as many courses as you can in which you will get exposed to writing software, understanding logic and being able to solve problems using logic. But the most important thing is have a specailty something that you know above all other things, be it a certain language or software... good expample is SAP, I have a friend who is a project manager for a very very large electronics manufacturer. they are paying a contractor to do SAP programming and they pay him 500$ dollars an hour... yes 500$ and hour now its not a permanent job but he's making more in a month than most people make in a couple of years. Thats his specailty and its a hard one to break into.
So once you get your degree you can concentrate on what your specailty will be this is where certs come in. Certs are great but don't pay for them, get a job in the field and get them to pay, this is because most of them expire and you usually have to renew them every couple of years. But the look good on your resume especailly if a company pays as this gives the impression that you are a go getter and that the company beleives in you. Your specailty might relate to your degree major or it might be what your first major job is, this is just luck of the draw.
So a typicaly day, wow its hard to say. Sometimes its go go go and I'm writing code like crazy. Other days its talk talk talk and meetings. Sometimes I spend days writing tech specs or documents to give overviews and estimations on software that needs to be written. Think office space it really is allot like that. One thing alot of people don't know about being a software developer is that you not only need to understand how to write software (ie solve problems) but you also need to undersand the industry in which you write software for. This means you need to understand the business process. So think if you were writing software for a burger company, you need to understand how orders are processed, how iventory is processed and used blah blah. This is where probably the hardest part it almost a second job.
Do I like my job.... as someone who had mowed lawns and dug ditches for a living making money that wouldnt even feed one person, yes I actually love my job. I worked hard to get where I'm at I make pretty good money, my wife doesn't have to work, My kids have more than I had as a little kid and the work I do is satisfying.
If there one thing I could stress when it comes to this line of work. You have to love software, so much so that you willing to work long hours and then come home and write more software as a hobby (maybe i did atleast). Or when you hit college start a pet project and see it through. These are the things that will set you apart from other developer coming out of college. Especailly when you don't have much on your resume, and honestly these are the question potential employers ask (hobbies, personal projects).
How bout this... I give you an hour by hour blog for the next week on what I'm doing at work.
I'm currently working on a rewrite... code fix for code that the company I work for now decided to outsource. This code ended up being terrible and was somethign I was thrown into when I arrived here about 8 months ago. I just started this project about 3 weeks ago and before that I spent about 4weeks evaluating and writing custom testing suites to produce metrics scores for this software compared to the previous version of this software (ie compare say version 5 to version 6). I was the one who found all the bugs and areas of concern and gave estimates on hours of work to fix these things.
So I might be off tomorrow, if I am I will report so. If not then I will start the hour by hour blog if you like.

Such a blog would be amazing (and id read up hourly for updates trust me, this sounds fascinating!)but I wouldn't want to detract from your life anymore then I already have, you work hard and I imagine that you would want to have time to yourself for your hobbies and your family.
Thank you very much. I could ask a million more questions, but again, I don't want to take away to much time. Thanks a billion

No really i want to answer them I wish I had been in you're shoes when I was your age. I didn't have some one telling that I could do it... computer were different back then hell I didn't own my own computer till I was in my twenties.
Ill do the blog for you... one if the perks of being on a computer. Like I said just at work tho. When I get home I can't promise when I be able to post.
So ask question one at a time since I tend to be long winded... it makers it easier... honestly when I retire I plan on teaching at a tech college... but thats about 20 years away. But I love to answer question about these things.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App

Great
Well what was learning your first programming language like
Do you think knowing a markup language helps or would help in the learning process?
What do you think the software engineering world will be like in a few years?
Is there any particular aspect of the computer world you like most?
Do you still keep in contact with any of your professors or colleges?

Hey Asimmons, thanks for helping damian out. I'm in the same boat he is, and I'm finding this really useful! Thanks a lot!

Glad I can help I was in you guys shoes once. And know that feeling of uncertainty... ill answer more tomorrow for you guys and start the blog.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App

I know I've said it tons, but I mean it, thank you ASimmons. And I'm glad this post can help others

damiandarkwater said:
Great
Well what was learning your first programming language like
Do you think knowing a markup language helps or would help in the learning process?
What do you think the software engineering world will be like in a few years?
Is there any particular aspect of the computer world you like most?
Do you still keep in contact with any of your professors or colleges?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Mark up languages are very important, but I wouldn't focus a career on them. Languages like html, dhtml or xml are skills you will pickup along the way, understanding how these langs are parsed and used by other languages are very important and is a valuable skill to have. Especially in Java and with the emergence of real time web applications that uses technologies like ajax, jquery and now html5 it is more important to understand the usage and capabilities of these languages rather than focus on just knowing how to write a webpage.
The future of software will be more and more web based and mobile application. as we have seen in the corporate world for the last 5 or so years application that were once only possible on the desktop have moved entirely to web based app. This makes deployments and updates easier to maintain, version control easier, and with technologies like html5, ajax used in conjunctions with SOA and SAAS these apps perform just as well or better than the app you use to see run on your desktop. Take MS Office 365 and their cloud software for this, this is essentially an SAAS (software as a service) you lease the software it doesn't run locally anymore and the software and its worries and maintenance are pushed to the software vendors, we start to see this more and more. Google has been at the for front of this, and expect to see computers in the near future that are just dummy terminals that run only the basics and all your important software is pushed to a corporate cloud. I'm not saying desktop pcs will disappear but downloadable software will begin to especially in the corporate world.
I pretty much like anything that has to do with technology. I love the history of computers since I grew up and pretty much watch the birth of the home pc and remmeber when the 486dx came out and it was considered the best computer you could get. I remember using the trs-80 in typing class and the atari 2600 (still have one) kelico vision and then the nintendo (still have that to).
And yes I do stay in contact with the department head from my old college. I still use her as a reference from time to time since I worked in college for a little as a tutor (best job to get.. I recommend this if you can). College is about learning in large part but secondly its about contacts and networking. Make sure your networking in college, know your peers and previous alumni. Introduce your self and make sure to attend functions, since the will be potential co-workers or bosses.
So its mondays... I going to maybe do every couple of hours every hours might be to much. But I'm about to dive in to a ton of spaghetti code and try and make some since of it. This is especially ORM (look this up) code for an oracle database, and I'm trying to fix what is broken without having to actually rewrite the whole thing (if it was up to me I would). Be back in a couple of hours.

So its just after 2 and I've had to switch task to help another developer. This is pretty common and as a developer you have to be able to multi task.
So I'm working in creating a way for dynamic where clause can be built or just passed to and object DAO class.
The implementation I'm trying to fix is currently building them in a very static and non reusable way. When you design code it has be thought out and designed in such a way so that things like maintenance on said code is taken into account, and that repeatable processes are written in such a way that the can be reusable. This seems to have non of that.
If your looking at a package or program and see common re-occuring methods then this would be considered bad (imo) and should be re-evaluated and or rewritten so that this process can be written in one spot and referenced be other, this way if bugs or changes need to occur in this process you only have to change it there, this is the most common principle in OOP design but you be amazed at how much it is abused.
While you might be saving time up front your creating time on the back end for thing like code maintenance, upgrades or bug fixes.

It's about 5 for me and I just got home from school. I was at a friends house trying to understand a virus her computer contracted. (smart engine, annoying little thing, but its all better now.)
I'm looking into ORM as I type this. Interesting o:
I ask about the markup languages because ill be taking an html5 course next term. Makes sense that id learn about them along the way.
Sounds like you can handle quite a bit all at once, does that develop with time?

Html 5 is not like the previous htmls. So yeah this will be the next big internet language think web apps and pages that are totally dynamic. Good choice.
The multi tasking can be learned... good habits and time management... mostly learning the most basic of issues there's probably 5 or so and how the efficiently solve the problems and with what tools. Tools are very important every thing from ant or scripts to automate task to custom libraries.
Here's one, it's sort of a snarky developer joke.
You can have software.. done fast, done cheap and done right. You can only choose two though.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App

Hey Sorry
Sorry I been super busy. There small a small re-org in my department and I changed cubicals (this office space) and now I sit next to the "I've done it all programmer". The I've done it all programming can do everything, and its was always easier.
So hows the paper going?

Done!
It was a pleasure to write after talking with you, thank-you.
I get my grade sometime next week.

Thank you Simmons I am in 9th grade and am in a it trade school and I have thinking of going more for software thank you for all this I will finish reading these when I get home
sent from one ba hero

Things that need to be improved for future Development

First i must give a standing ovation to the DARK FORCES TEAM (D.F.T.) on there accomplishment on the win phone 7 os as i am very impressed with performance.
Second my recommendations to improve the future builds.
1 change the phone identification in the os from HTCLEO to HD7 so as u no longer have to go through as much trouble to activate live services.
2. make os preactivated or precracked for live services. (This May Seem as a difficult task but in actuality its not.. A good Example would be windows xp as many people have made various keygens and cracks to bypass activation, there is even a hacked version of xp where it is preactivated with genuine certificates working so dont tell me it cant be done, if anything u could come up with a registry patch that activates win phone 7's os,
if u were able to accomplish these 2 things DFT you would be the gods of Phone modding, hacking, integration, and os development (Although many already think of u as such but why not take it to the next level?)

Your requests clearly tend into the "hacking" and "warez" direction. I don´t think both of your requests will be easily fulfilled, and if, you won´t find the solution here at xda.
From my gutt feeling, I believe that the current solution stays in the grey zone where all the "classic" flashing, hacking, tweaking and modding has been for years, but overriding activation routines breaks laws.
Frankly spoken, getting the activation code from the OS maker is not a big issue as of now. In a year or two, many HD2 users will have moved on, either to Android, or maybe to WP7, or iOS, who knows - but HD2 will be outdated sometime.
I myself would much more prefer to get a properly working camera, that´s it.

very understandable about the law issues, but correct me if im wrong, did we not already break the laws by customizing the os in the beginning??? im not the most knowledgeable on this and by no means do i want to start a controversy, i just figure if we have already come this far go all the way..

Well... I'm pretty sure there is no law against porting OS's to devices besides the fact that it could break your warranty.
And Microsoft said they would not add the WP7 update to previous devices because it doesn't meet their hardware standards, but they never said it would be ported on to previous devices.
Furthermore, at the moment you have to call Microsoft for an activation key that they generate on the spot for any phone, model, etc... They even ask if you need a key before asking for your name, email, phone number and other information (at least they did for me), so in a way, they are promoting this behaviour.
So there is nothing completely wrong with doing this at all, but it sounds like you just don't want to call Microsoft for key that takes all of 5 minutes.
And what tictac0566 is right. All we do is take their OS and move it to our phone. That's like installing Windows 7 to your exclusive Dell Windows XP.
And we have not customised the OS that much as of yet.

darkowler said:
very understandable about the law issues, but correct me if im wrong, did we not already break the laws by customizing the os in the beginning??? im not the most knowledgeable on this and by no means do i want to start a controversy, i just figure if we have already come this far go all the way..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Forgive some of the answers, we don't mean to be mean . You see, sometimes it's difficult to distinguish most of the good intentions in touchy subjects like this one. It might be that it has been asked repeatedly with it only ending on a flame war or perhaps something along the lines and some are getting tired of it. It's not your fault bro.
Let me put it into perspective though, as far as I'm concerned, yes.. technically speaking, porting WP7 goes against the licensing terms. As a matter of fact, we aren't really supposed to do it at all. But then again, the same can be said about Winmo and all its variants.
In the past MS has stated that as long as only the software that has been shipped on the cellphone is included sans any commercial software you'd have to buy normally, then it's a go. I believe we could assume the same about WP7 for the time being. Asides it helps them find bugs faster and treat like a big beta-testing but just in real life by XDA.
I believe Microsoft isn't much bothered by it or rather is not a threat. But the moment you mess with it's DRM or rather the services (XBOX mainly to be specific) being protected by whatever algorithm Microsoft has put in place it then you are already touching their crown jewel.
Hacking the device for tiles is not a priority for MS, but hack the Live services and this can only assure or give the impression anyone can tinker enough to hack to cheat on the Live service (which is rather amusing, since hacking gamer points and scores is just so wrong in so many levels).
I'd say it's just like the Xbox console. As long as you don't mess with Xbox Live, then most of the hacks aren't really blocked unlike Sony, which sued the pants off everyone and now that is why the PS3 was gutted to pieces recently. I hope that helps a little more.

My next tablet after TF101

After looking at Android's fragmentation, the pain that one has to go through for every damn update is really getting to me! Google has really screwed this one up big time...its funny to even see the number of different screen sizes, hardware configurations android is being used. No standardization makes it a nightmare for developers to write applications that are consistent. Its hard to imagine that google has been so short sighted!
Asus is surely a brilliant company to have come out with a great tablet (and their newer tabs are kick ass too at great price points). But its really bothersome if I'm always in some sort of dependence on the manufacturer to release OS updates - this is just plain crazy! If Google's aim of ICS was to converge all devices to use the same OS, then why aren't they supporting manufacturers or insisting on all manufacturers to push out an update?
To start things, Google has really messed up their long term roadmap with fragmentation issues...and I would expect a company of that scale to atleast put in some sort of contractual commitments with all its manufacturing partners to roll out updates to its customers within a given timeline.
Here is what I would expect Google to have implemented yesterday, if they really need to retain popularity towards Android and keep it growing -
1. No more fragmentation moving forward. Standardization of screen resolutions, minimum performance requirements, ram, storage requirements etc.
2. Device manufacturers must commit to issuing software updates within some timeline from when google has an update.
3. Manufacturers dont decide if the update can run on their device or not - it must be google who decides this, and should be decided based on hardware specs
Now with Windows 8 on the horizon, I would definitely wait it out and move over to a Windows 8 based tablet. Knowing Microsoft, they're perhaps the only company who invests a lot of time and thinking in getting things right. It shows clearly from their development tools/platform, their emulators, clean implementation rather than an iterative approach etc.
Last android tablet for sure! And I'm hoping windows phone 7 will mature too, and its windows 8 variant should be a lot more promising. Thats when I would phase out my Galaxy S and head back to MS
What are your thoughts people?
cheers,
San

dreamtheater39 said:
Knowing Microsoft, they're perhaps the only company who invests a lot of time and thinking in getting things right.
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Click to collapse
haha, you made my day XD ...btw. throwing the word "vista" into the ring ^^
coming to win8. i just read an article today that the arm version of windows is most likely not able to run desktop programs. asuming that: WOOOOOW, Windows 8

If you prefer a monolithic OS to the liberty you get with Android that's your choice.
Personally, I do not. I do not like being locked into one vendor who gets to decide how I use my device.
I like having a choice between a smartphone, a 7", 8.9", 10.1" or even 11.5" tablet, or even a laptop that I can run the same OS (Android) on.
I love the Transformer. I have one device that is truly a tablet and, with root, also serves the full functionality of a laptop. What can Windows offer me that does this? What can iOS offer me that can replace my Transformer?
And that's besides the fact that with a Windows device I'm stuck with an OS that I am familiar with the shortcomings of, and unable to do anything about. Or with iOS that, again, no one can fix but the manufacturer (if they feel like it).
Yes, fragmentation of the Android platform is a bit of a problem. The Market addresses this, somewhat, by only showing software you can install on your device. Most Android devs are sensitive to their customer's needs and a polite email is frequently responded to positively, and usually with a fix in short order.
Frankly, I consider the fragmented markets (GetJar, Market, Amazon App Store, etc) to be a far larger problem than fragmentation of the OS, and I don't consider that to be anywhere close to a large problem.

Hmmm my thoughts
1. They have set an agreement with there partners. A new timeline that they must update devices within a set life span for a device think it was around a year and a half have a google on it. (p.s year and a half aint bad considering how fast mobile tech is moving)
2. It should not be a problem for devs to write apps for ics and the differences in hardware are accounted for
3. ms well thought out vista ms dos longhorn??? ms dos was not future thinking and very short sighted especially in terms of ram!!!!!! if anyone remembers vista was a plain mess!! and longhorn didnt even meet the public. Not to mention the many other flaws or screw ups (anyone remember xp early days it was hackers heaven)
4. At its roots android is linux google the track record for updates and security between ms and linux then whie you're at it google how many servers in the world run linux compared to ms
5. The biggest flaw of all ms was a single user platform a pc the first pc they now want to make it multi user and move toward cloud computing etc etc linux has been doing this for years so inherantly android can do the same ms on the other hand is having to kick there own ass so hard bills teeth have been replaced with hes toe nails
6. I like win 8 and 7 for one reason gamming and a couple programs i just cant get otherwise but as soon as i can do these things elsewhere or linux based i will.
You do have good points but i just wanted to step in as the other side of the coin.
Sent from my tf Enigmatic V2 beta 1.65Ghz Panda.test cust kernel settings

If you really want to be assured you can run everything on every device I suggest you look at Apple. The iPad will continue to be the dominate tablet for years to come and then you can be assured that everything will be packaged nicely and controlled in the manner decreed in Cupertino.
Open source means a trading a messier support structure for more innovation, and is not for everyone.

blestsol said:
Just leave please and get your ipad.
Sent from my Transformer TF101 using xda premium
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Click to collapse
Enough said, whining isn't usefull here.
Seriously what do you want us to say? Good writting nice information, thanks for the info!!
I mean wtf?
Reported the thread.

Klau you do relise where XDA stands for and what the DEVELOPERS word means behind it?
XDA is for developing and helping people when they want to use costum roms or other non officeal related subjects
If you are unsatisfied with a device use the offical forum of ASUS, thats the right place!

Are any of the responses written by a mod?
So since when did everyone get appointed the responsibility to decide what is allowed to be discussed on this board, which isn't even the developer forum, it's on the general forum.
If you don't think the topic is relevant to you, just don't enter it. Let the mod do their job.
---------- Post added at 11:48 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:43 AM ----------
blestsol said:
Ooc, you don't agree of disagree... Why you responding? People use words wrong so much... Fan boy? Man you reaching. Foh. You sick of something ignore it and take your own advice. Dip from the thread. Simple ass that for your simple ass.
Sent from my Transformer TF101 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Learn to read, I said if you disagree, state your reason.
I've stated my reason of disagreement regarding the unfriendly atmosphere of this board.
You're grasping at straws that don't exist look who's reaching lol

klau1 said:
Are any of the responses written by a mod?
So since when did everyone get appointed the responsibility to decide what is allowed to be discussed on this board, which isn't even the developer forum, it's on the general forum.
If you don't think the topic is relevant to you, just don't enter it. Let the mod do their job.
---------- Post added at 11:48 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:43 AM ----------
Learn to read, I said if you disagree, state your reason.
I've stated my reason of disagreement regarding the unfriendly atmosphere of this board.
You're grasping at straws that don't exist look who's reaching lol
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Click to collapse
I didn't disagree. My post said what I meant. What he was describing is what ios can give him. Please show where my fan boy thoughts are though. In my short sentence.
I'll wait for that though.
Sent from my ADR6425LVW using xda premium

silversx80 said:
Oh, the irony :
Here's the thing, the OP is an open-ended criticism on things the android community praises about the android platform. Praising those things does not make one a fanboy, nor does calling one a fanboy render an ages-old demotivational poster anything less than a sophomoric response in the hopes that a chuckle will sway the reader over to your point of view.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nope, face palm has always been my actual sentiment about the responses here, and pictures help prevents a large post from getting ignored.
silversx80 said:
Someone criticizes the platform as a whole, one which others really enjoy (including myself), and makes the declaration that they're moving over to another, which is much better. Their assessment is based only on opinionated observations from their point of view, which is hardly an inconvenience to anyone else. Of course they're going to get a "get the f*ck out" response, and deserve nothing less. It's like when the Christians invaded the Turks and tried to convert the entire group of people.
It brings up the ages-old motherly line of wisdom: If you can't say anything nice, then don't say anything at all.
There is nothing wrong with desiring something that is better for your uses, but use that as a premise. Don't start by lambasting the opposition, especially when you know what the system is about and you know the offerings of the competition. Some people may actually enjoy the things you don't.
In my opinion, ALL of the devises and software are AMAZING when you consider what the all do.
Instead, we get a bunch of non-contributing, product-zero, whiny little girls. You know what, that's fine; next time you think of complaining, go make your own. As soon as yours is better, then you can complain about other offerings.
Until then, STFU and GTFO.
P.S. If android will be more successful as a standardized platform, we'll see it move that way. I write that with reservation, as android is currently the #1 mobile platform in the world, so they must be doing something right... much to the chagrin of the OP.
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Look, every reasonably intelligent person understands trade-off exist. Simply one comes to mind:
can a "God be powerful enough to create a rock so heavy that even it can't lift it?"
Usability comes at the expense of functionality, everyone should understand that.
But people forget that sometimes, not a big deal, just explain it to them instead of acting like an internet bully. That doesn't help your point across.
silversx80 said:
It brings up the ages-old motherly line of wisdom: If you can't say anything nice, then don't say anything at all.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just because you disagree with the OP doesn't mean it was not "nice" or offensive

lol's were had reading this thread.

klau1 said:
Just because you disagree with the OP doesn't mean it was not "nice" or offensive
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Click to collapse
Dude, basically what he did was akin to going over to VW Vortex, complaining about all the reasons why his little 2.5 Golf was not like the current offerings from Toyota, and said that when the new Hondas come out, he's getting one of those.
There is no purpose in his post other than to demean and criticize. There is nothing productive, nor contributory about it. No, I didn't have to read, nor post, but I felt compelled.
If someone want's to leave for a better personal option, that's fine. If they want to make a scene and flip the table on the way out, then they shouldn't expect a positive reception to their announcement.

As much as I hate Apple, I do think that progress requires contrast. What do I mean? We need a solidified company like Apple that keeps pushing the same standard but slightly better (that's like peer-reviewed science). We need a looser society of innovators like Google's associates who play around at the edges of what we expect at the moment (who are like fringe scientists, some contribute great genius ideas, and some who completely **** it up). For me, I like the fringe scientist; I understand the need for peer-review, but I think I'll stick with Android for at least the next tablet too.

A WARNING FROM THE MODERATOR
A WARNING FROM THE MODERATOR
Play nice..........
talk nice ........
Or you will be banned.......
And I will close the thread
To those who reported this bad behavior, thank you
Keep it civil, Folks
Thanks ~ oka1 Moderator

Did they demo a Windows 8 ARM device at CES? I am very curious as to how Windows 8 will perform.
This is a very interesting project that could either excel if developers jump onboard, or crash horribly if developers reject the idea of Windows on ARM.
Sent from my Transformer TF101 using Tapatalk

Interesting feedback from all you guys!
Just to clear things out, from where i come from -
-I've always loved android for the flexibility it gives me. I've always made custom roms, modded the hell out of every device i've ever had, starting way back from the Pocket PC days! Android - seemed like the most perfect option for me.
-I've always stayed away from Apple, for a myriad of reasons - they dictate everything, and i hate that. And also, i hate being in the bucket of half wit fanboys who bought one just to be "cool"
-I work for one of the biggest game companies, and i'm responsible for technology direction for smartphones, tablets. So, let me tell you what this looks like from a developer's view point -
A game is always written for iOS first - reason being, the platform is standardized in terms of display resolutions, hardware capabilities. Testing effort is extremely low in comparison (you dont have to test on a 100 devices!)
You have only 2 aspect ratios to deal with - phone & tablet. And you know that your game will run on all the iphones and ipads floating in the world. So this makes it easy from development & testing points of view. And this is the reason why games are "always" developed for iOS first.
Now the fun begins - once the game is done and is out on iTunes, there are large conversion teams which takes care of getting it to run on android phones and tablets. You have to see the hardware inventory we have here - so manyyyy android phones and tablets - and all of these have to be tested to give it a QA greenlight. Even when devices have the same hardware specs, each device behaves differently at times because the manufacturers have written different drivers specific to the device!
And then now, we have honeycomb and ICS - the screen has a static status bar in the bottom which takes away 48 pixels from your screen! Suddenly, your game needs to factor odd resolutions of 1280x752, 1232x800, 1024x552, etc etc. This means - redesigning all your game menus, UI, dialogs so that they dont leak out of the screen - crazy load of work! And then - you can have ONLY ONE APK to support ALL THESE resolutions and hardware configurations!
And then finally to top it all, you have several different market places, custom roms to test on, devices that the developer blacklists because of incompatibility - bypasses blacklisting on the market place because of a custom rom/hack...and he ends up playing the game giving us bad ratings!
The list is endless! I really feel this should not be the case for such a huge platform coming from a really big ass company! Honestly, i feel android made it big because it came in at the right time when the hardware side of things was at a great level - allowing them to give super slick graphics. And they had no other competition (windows mobile was too old, and the other was just iOS). They just got lucky, went without a clear plan - and iteratively refined and fixed things.
Atleast now, I feel Google should really accelerate its efforts towards some form of convergence. Look at the variance that a developer needs to take care of - different hardware configs/specs (ram, storage, processor!) - performance wise, different screen resolutions (a 100 different combinations! literally!), custom roms/modding, different manufacturer driven hardware/software customization, a zillion different OS versions, and so on. All this has to be factored, and we can have only 1 apk! And then finally, the provided android emulator that they provide - is soooo damn sorry, its not even funny. The emulator is literally like a slide show on my really powerful desktop - forget trying to use the built in emulator for developing games!
At the end, the platform lives because of the number of developers who support it. If customers dont have newer and better experiences coming - they would shift boats - its as simple. Making it harder for developers is just shooting yourself in the foot!
-San

dreamtheater39 said:
At the end, the platform lives because of the number of developers who support it. If customers dont have newer and better experiences coming - they would shift boats - its as simple. Making it harder for developers is just shooting yourself in the foot!
-San
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have a huge problem with this statement, and pretty much the rest of your post. They are not a valid presumptions.
First, the developer and platform support each other. The platform does not live because the developer supports it... I'd argue that it's the other way around, but still a 2-way street. Without the platform, the developer cannot develop.
Second, games from the big developers may be released on iOS first, and some may be released on Android first. Without references, your statement in invalid. If you're only referring to your company, then specify that.
Third, screen resolution (and other oddities) may be a contributing factor in some app developers not bringing iOS apps to Android, but the vetting process of the Apple App Store discourages other developers from even trying to release anything onto iOS. Some devs don't even want to program things for iOS based on principle (and visa versa).
Fourth, the whole reason big mobile-platform app developer companies exist is to make money. Why alienate more than 50% of the market because of screen resolution? That would be lazy and counter-productive to profits.
Fifth, one could argue that it's not the big-time devs who got each platform off the ground, but the small-time devs, who released their apps for free. It wasn't the gaming capabilities that sold Android and iOS early on; that's a very narrow perspective.
Sixth, Android isn't being shot in the proverbial foot by different market places, those particular devices may be. The Nook and Kindle Fire come to mind, but keep in mind that those were sold on the premise that they're electronic readers first, that happen to run a modified version of Android.
I feel that you're upset over Android making it harder for you to earn a paycheck. I understand the challenges involved, but I think you're not looking at the big picture.
I moved to Windows Mobile phones from Palm devices because I wanted better synching with my computer, use of the .Net framework, and ease of customization ability. Turned out that WM was not intuitive on my early phones.
I moved from WM to webOS. Loved it. It was intuitive, smooth and reliable. Customization wasn't very easy, but I didn't care. Also, it had support of the big app developers and had some pretty good games too. Unfortunately, it didn't have support of the small-time app devs because of the difficulty writing apps for it. Where is it now?
From there, I knew that webOS was going to be short-lived, so I moved to Android. No, it's not as stable as iOS or webOS, but it is still a great OS. Small devs can get a chance in the app market, along with big-time devs who write cross-platform.
Windows 8 may be a great platform, but the big picture is that there is no cult-following for Microsoft as there is for Apple. What they need to do is give potential-customers options. Those options need to range from inexpensive, to top of the line. Different hardware, in other words (a nightmare for devs). If they don't, and since they don't have a die-hard following, I suspect it wont gain as much ground as Android did, or even webOS.
Apple has a good customer base, and knows what that customer wants. It's an easy sell. Windows customers are far too diverse and can't accept a blanket-type device range to cover all the wants and needs like Apple customers can. Android addresses those customers by providing options because it's an open architecture. Fragmentation sucks for the devs, but the user doesn't care because the typical user only has one device. Those users are why the devs exist at all.
To sum up, I think three things:
1. Your assessment of Android's shortcomings are somewhat short-sighted and not applicable to the big picture. The user wants the experience of the phone, not the apps. Apps are just noise now, with hundreds doing the same thing.
2. Your arguments are falling on deaf ears, or ears that cannot do anything about your complaints (i.e. I don't think Android's authors are reading this thread with much merit).
3. Your arguments would be better suited in the iOS, or Windows 8 sub-forums.

I was thinking about the horror of all the different Android devices when looking at them from a Dev's point of view (which I am NOT) so I appreciate your openness and insight.
The main reason why I will stay away from an iOS tablet for a long time is simply that the interface on a tablet needs to be more flexible than simply arranging icons to start apps. In other words, as long as iOS does not support widgets there's no appeal to me to buy an Apple tablet. Very narrow-minded, I know. Having an iPh*one (3GS) is not optimal but I am still waiting for an Android phone that intrigues me and is NOT linked to VZW.
dreamtheater39 said:
Interesting feedback from all you guys!
Just to clear things out, from where i come from -
-I've always loved android for the flexibility it gives me. I've always made custom roms, modded the hell out of every device i've ever had, starting way back from the Pocket PC days! Android - seemed like the most perfect option for me.
-I've always stayed away from Apple, for a myriad of reasons - they dictate everything, and i hate that. And also, i hate being in the bucket of half wit fanboys who bought one just to be "cool"
-I work for one of the biggest game companies, and i'm responsible for technology direction for smartphones, tablets. So, let me tell you what this looks like from a developer's view point -
A game is always written for iOS first - reason being, the platform is standardized in terms of display resolutions, hardware capabilities. Testing effort is extremely low in comparison (you dont have to test on a 100 devices!)
You have only 2 aspect ratios to deal with - phone & tablet. And you know that your game will run on all the iphones and ipads floating in the world. So this makes it easy from development & testing points of view. And this is the reason why games are "always" developed for iOS first.
Now the fun begins - once the game is done and is out on iTunes, there are large conversion teams which takes care of getting it to run on android phones and tablets. You have to see the hardware inventory we have here - so manyyyy android phones and tablets - and all of these have to be tested to give it a QA greenlight. Even when devices have the same hardware specs, each device behaves differently at times because the manufacturers have written different drivers specific to the device!
And then now, we have honeycomb and ICS - the screen has a static status bar in the bottom which takes away 48 pixels from your screen! Suddenly, your game needs to factor odd resolutions of 1280x752, 1232x800, 1024x552, etc etc. This means - redesigning all your game menus, UI, dialogs so that they dont leak out of the screen - crazy load of work! And then - you can have ONLY ONE APK to support ALL THESE resolutions and hardware configurations!
And then finally to top it all, you have several different market places, custom roms to test on, devices that the developer blacklists because of incompatibility - bypasses blacklisting on the market place because of a custom rom/hack...and he ends up playing the game giving us bad ratings!
The list is endless! I really feel this should not be the case for such a huge platform coming from a really big ass company! Honestly, i feel android made it big because it came in at the right time when the hardware side of things was at a great level - allowing them to give super slick graphics. And they had no other competition (windows mobile was too old, and the other was just iOS). They just got lucky, went without a clear plan - and iteratively refined and fixed things.
Atleast now, I feel Google should really accelerate its efforts towards some form of convergence. Look at the variance that a developer needs to take care of - different hardware configs/specs (ram, storage, processor!) - performance wise, different screen resolutions (a 100 different combinations! literally!), custom roms/modding, different manufacturer driven hardware/software customization, a zillion different OS versions, and so on. All this has to be factored, and we can have only 1 apk! And then finally, the provided android emulator that they provide - is soooo damn sorry, its not even funny. The emulator is literally like a slide show on my really powerful desktop - forget trying to use the built in emulator for developing games!
At the end, the platform lives because of the number of developers who support it. If customers dont have newer and better experiences coming - they would shift boats - its as simple. Making it harder for developers is just shooting yourself in the foot!
-San
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

I thought the name of the game was resolution independence, designing your UI's without depending on absolute values but rather relative values and taking into account resolution size, using DP measurement units instead of PX. The last time I worked on an app was a while ago but even then the app scaled fine from something as small as a Droid 2 to something as large (was large at the time) as a Nook Color or a Galaxy Tab.
So are you saying Apple has it better because they only have two screen sizes? Who cares if there are fifty different screen sizes and fifty different resolutions? If you design your UI and your app correctly with resolution independence in mind it should scale well to most if not every resolution and every aspect ratio shouldn't it?
Even when devices have the same hardware specs, each device behaves differently at times because the manufacturers have written different drivers specific to the device!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Are you referring to certain things like how device GPU's vary and therefore certain texture compression methods in OpenGL for example only work with ATI GPU's and not PowerVR GPU's and vice versa?
I do agree that fragmentation exists but only between Android versions such as those running 1.5, 1.6, 2.2, 3.0, 4.0, etcetera but you can deal with this. I doubt they'll standardize hardware. Maybe screen sizes, maybe screen resolutions but manufacturers are there to make money, not play equal to every other manufacturer. If HTC wants to release a better phone with a better resolution to make more money Google isn't going to tell them to do otherwise. The only reason this is different with Apple is because Apple is the only one making hardware for their iOS so there are no companies fighting over each other for profits. They can control the whole platform. Obviously with Android you have multiple hardware manufacturers and they're not all part of the same company, they're looking to make profits over each other and that means devices have varying features. That's just how Android is unless Google makes their own devices and restricts Android to Google devices.
I think I would like the idea of uniformity better too, not as strict as Apple but certain things being the same across all vendors. We're heading that way in a sense since Google is requiring all ICS devices to support the Holo theme. I wouldn't be surprised if in the future we get more restrictions from Google but as for forcing manufacturers to make certain hardware? That I truly doubt. Google has made it possible to work with different devices by allowing you to query for different device features such as checking for a keyboard or a trackball or an accelerometer, use resolution independent practices such as DP measurements and relative positioning, it's not as bad as it seems IMO.
different hardware configs/specs (ram, storage, processor
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So? What developer hasn't had to deal with this on virtually every system developed on since the origin of computing? Because Apple managed to create an illusion that this is irrelevant by making a handful of devices with fixed hardware and therefore only having to achieve acceptable performance on those devices? Make the decision to alienate those who don't fit the requirements. Alienating a certain group from support isn't going to be the end of the world. Games are sure to use Tegra 3 and those without Tegra 3 devices might be assed out if the game can't scale down. The world continues...

Tubular said:
I thought the name of the game was resolution independence, designing your UI's without depending on absolute values but rather relative values and taking into account resolution size, using DP measurement units instead of PX. The last time I worked on an app was a while ago but even then the app scaled fine from something as small as a Droid 2 to something as large (was large at the time) as a Nook Color or a Galaxy Tab.
So are you saying Apple has it better because they only have two screen sizes? Who cares if there are fifty different screen sizes and fifty different resolutions? If you design your UI and your app correctly with resolution independence in mind it should scale well to most if not every resolution and every aspect ratio shouldn't it?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Of course, a lot of work is done to make things resolution independent. But this is not always easy when you want to have some really complex games designed which is heavy on 2D UI. Full screen dialog boxes, Floating UI options etc. are all part of many big game titles developed and ends up being incredibly hard to port across multiple resolutions/aspect ratios. Try looking at some of the user reviews on games - people complain about the smallest of things and randomly throw in a 1 star rating. For a development company, ratings are everything. If your app gets low ratings, it goes unnoticed and thereby killing your chances of earning decent revenues for breaking even - let alone profitability! The cost of development goes up due to higher requirements for development & testing (multiple devices and other fragmentation issues).
Are you referring to certain things like how device GPU's vary and therefore certain texture compression methods in OpenGL for example only work with ATI GPU's and not PowerVR GPU's and vice versa?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Several things here - PVR textures, many open gl calls behave differently on certain devices - for instance the filtering doesnt work as expected on the samsung line of devices because they have their own driver tweaks applied, some devices crash out on a minor opengl warning, while the other devices ignore and continue to run etc. The point here is, you cant see it running on 1 "TYPE" of device which represents a family (same res, performance specs) and assume it will run on the rest. You can release and iteratively respond to user feedback - but you risk getting low ratings and then your game gets buried under.
So? What developer hasn't had to deal with this on virtually every system developed on since the origin of computing? Because Apple managed to create an illusion that this is irrelevant by making a handful of devices with fixed hardware and therefore only having to achieve acceptable performance on those devices? Make the decision to alienate those who don't fit the requirements. Alienating a certain group from support isn't going to be the end of the world. Games are sure to use Tegra 3 and those without Tegra 3 devices might be assed out if the game can't scale down. The world continues...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
[/QUOTE]
When you build games, the objective is to provide the best graphics to the end user with excellent gameplay. Now, if i have to support several hardware configurations i either have a fallback mechanism to have lower quality on lower device (more dev effort, more costs, more testing), or reduce overall quality of graphics all across (bad quality game - low ratings, low revenues), blacklist lower specced devices (killing potential market share - cutting total revenues, risking break even). This becomes extremely critical especially because the games and apps are sold for a measly $1 and every sale is important!
silversx80 said:
Second, games from the big developers may be released on iOS first, and some may be released on Android first. Without references, your statement in invalid. If you're only referring to your company, then specify that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not all developers need to follow this. But any large sized company will invariably follow this approach - mainly from the point of view of monetization. Right now, the fact is, Android is yet not a platform where the big bucks come from. Its still unfortunately the damn fruit company. And the sheer fact about the difficulty in have a game run on android is a deterrent to release on android first. Its much easier to finish a game for ios, throw it on the marketplace, and quickly see how the game did. If people like it, and you made decent revenues, then you could expand to android - which would take a lot more time, money, effort.
Fourth, the whole reason big mobile-platform app developer companies exist is to make money. Why alienate more than 50% of the market because of screen resolution? That would be lazy and counter-productive to profits.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
true, and thats what i mean by the effort it takes on testing and development makes it a costlier bet! Imagine the capital investment - to house all the phones to test on!
I feel that you're upset over Android making it harder for you to earn a paycheck. I understand the challenges involved, but I think you're not looking at the big picture.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I barely find it hard to earn my paycheck Its my company which has to invest the $$$ to get every game out of the door to hit android markets! And just seeing all the chaos involved in shipping an android title, just makes me wonder why google has made this so complicated! If i have to think from the perspective of having my own startup company making android games - it would give me shivers! Not all companies have the lucky streak of Rovio and those few company that i could handcount.
-San

Motorola/Google Project Ara, Phonebloks etc.

http://www.xda-developers.com/android/motorola-announces-modular-smartphone-project-ara/
[Holy ****] Motorola Announces Project Ara, An Open, Modular Smartphone Hardware Platform
http://www.androidpolice.com/2013/1...an-open-modular-smartphone-hardware-platform/
Motorola is inviting people across the globe to become Ara Scouts. Over the next 6 - 12 months, we'll be doing research to shape the direction of Project Ara. You can help by collaborating with us on special missions.
http://www.dscout.com/ara
After the trip, we asked ourselves, how do we bring the benefits of an open hardware ecosystem to 6 billion people? Meet Ara. - See more at:
http://motorola-blog.blogspot.ca/2013/10/goodbye-sticky-hello-ara.html
My post at http://www.androidpolice.com/2013/1...ip-and-offers-another-glimpse-of-project-ara/
I'm excited too, though still cautious/skeptical.
I'm sure MANY people have thought about such a concept Lego-type phone/everything device over the decades. My first serious but skeptical thoughts were in 2001, noting that it seemed wasteful to buy a digital video/still camera (at 2001 prices) over and over again for many different devices. But 12 years have made me even more skeptical about the practical realities.
This holds promise, but without specific guarantees; I look forward to seeing what happens.
Many/most engineers started with Lego or Mechano (my fave) when young and want to see similar in the real, practical world.
Linux is the Lego of Operating Systems.
Android AOSP is the Lego of Mobile Operating Systems.
Google, then MIT App Inventor is at least one of the Lego's of Android app development.
Arduino shields and similar are Lego for micro-controller hardware.
I look forward to Lego like pieces for phones, tablets, "laptops" and other devices.
I guess I'll sign up for the special missions of an "Ara Scout" and hope to not be disappointed: http://www.dscout.com/ara#
EDIT: Uh, oh, looks like DScout is some weird 3rd party thing that makes this all look like a lame-ish marketing ploy at this time...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

Yeah, I'm a little disappointed that the DScout is a third-party app, but at the same time, I think it is a neat idea. More importantly, this is something I want them to market to me. I don't mind providing companies with personal information or feedback about my tastes if I get what I want in return. It's when they take it without asking that bugs me. Especially when they don't seem to actually do anything in response. At the end of the day, I think it's a good thing if they're making products I want to buy and generally conducting their business in the way I want them to conduct it. If anything, I think the more glaring problem right now is companies NOT listening to people and instead adopting that stupid Apple notion that "people don't know what they want; we have to tell them what they want." If only google actually were listening in on us--then they'd at least know how strongly opposed we are to carriers locking down devices.

I'm hoping it really happens. And if it is true that Moto has been working on this for a year already then I think its at least somewhat encouraging.

My OP was moved here from the Hardware Hacking forum.
This new section is named "MDK Hacking".
MDK = Module Developer's Kit which will allow 3rd party module development. It's supposed to be released sometime "this winter".
I'm personally interested in getting an FM receiver, AND transmitter module created. While were at it, maybe w/ a chip for HD/Dab+/DMB radio. Might as well keep wishing and go for digital broadcast TV and effectively anything with a Software Defined Radio, LOL.
As for Project Ara in general, a few days of sober second thought, and the reading and thought processing of the several hundred posts I read, have put me more back in the skeptical range.
But I'd be happy even if this went no further than a reasonably successful hobbyist oriented eco-system, like Arduino.
Jane and Joe average "6 pack" could not care less how their phone or tablet were built. But the people who run custom ROMs, and they number in the many millions now, may find this compelling.
I'm imaging a robot, with an Android tablet as a head (with face(s) LOL.) Hooked to the head/brain are redundant communications paths to the rest of the body. The rest of the body may have their own small USB flash drive or less sized Android devices for specialty tasks.
Heck, with the right parts, the robot could disassemble and re-assemble itself, as needed. We've seen Futurama's Bender do so many times, ROFL.
And there are thousands of other cool and interesting non-robot uses for all this stuff. Someday soon, if not already, a sizable percentage of science fair projects will contain a connected Android device.
There may even be many useful business use cases, to add to all the fun stuff.

I could definitely see it happening, mainly because I think the project is keeping its aspirations in check. From what I've heard, at least, Ara is not looking to take the idea quite as far as Phonebloks was suggesting. I think that, rather than a Lego phone--where you can make anything you want--they are looking to bring phone hardware more inline with the hardware on computers (excluding those made by Apple, of course). You can already customize pretty much every aspect of your average PC. And the parts are more or less universally compatible: you can put basically any brand of hard drive in basically any computer. But even though it's not quite a Lego-phone, it would still be pretty amazing. Even if the only thing they did was allow you to choose what kind of camera you want on your phone, that would still be a significant improvement over the way things are now. Right now, you can sort of pick the color on some phones. and even that you can only do once, at the time of purchase. (I guess you also get the choice of buying a phone with more storage, but that's only because those phones don't come with external SD card slots. I refuse to count that as an example of customizability.)

Yeah.
PhoneBloks so far is 2 guys "on a mission", not too unlike a 2 guy FSF. The first part of that mission includes gathering enough money for a discussion forum and even that is not complete yet.
Project Ara seems like a "skunkworks" project of a large company doing some research ideas.
Google has a history of starting unusual projects. Most of them are eventually defunded and canned.
But that's OK IMO. Google seems to me to be run by very smart people focused on making money, in the long term. Part of that is "crazy" projects that mostly eventually disappear and sometimes turn into something great.

hai vl con bo
sharknado said:
Yeah, I'm a little disappointed that the DScout is a third-party app, but at the same time, I think it is a neat idea. More importantly, this is something I want them to market to me. I don't mind providing companies with personal information or feedback about my tastes if I get what I want in return. It's when they take it without asking that bugs me. Especially when they don't seem to actually do anything in response. At the end of the day, I think it's a good thing if they're making products I want to buy and generally conducting their business in the way I want them to conduct it. If anything, I think the more glaring problem right now is companies NOT listening to people and instead adopting that stupid Apple notion that "people don't know what they want; we have to tell them what they want." If only google actually were listening in on us--then they'd at least know how strongly opposed we are to carriers locking down devices.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
trthrujy ghikvb dfhg
---------- Post added at 11:20 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:16 AM ----------
mikereidis said:
Yeah.
PhoneBloks so far is 2 guys "on a mission", not too unlike a 2 guy FSF. The first part of that mission includes gathering enough money for a discussion forum and even that is not complete yet.
Project Ara seems like a "skunkworks" project of a large company doing some research ideas.
Google has a history of starting unusual projects. Most of them are eventually defunded and canned.
But that's OK IMO. Google seems to me to be run by very smart people focused on making money, in the long term. Part of that is "crazy" projects that mostly eventually disappear and sometimes turn into something great.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
navg fghj fduyhjm
---------- Post added at 11:25 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:20 AM ----------
sharknado said:
I could definitely see it happening, mainly because I think the project is keeping its aspirations in check. From what I've heard, at least, Ara is not looking to take the idea quite as far as Phonebloks was suggesting. I think that, rather than a Lego phone--where you can make anything you want--they are looking to bring phone hardware more inline with the hardware on computers (excluding those made by Apple, of course). You can already customize pretty much every aspect of your average PC. And the parts are more or less universally compatible: you can put basically any brand of hard drive in basically any computer. But even though it's not quite a Lego-phone, it would still be pretty amazing. Even if the only thing they did was allow you to choose what kind of camera you want on your phone, that would still be a significant improvement over the way things are now. Right now, you can sort of pick the color on some phones. and even that you can only do once, at the time of purchase. (I guess you also get the choice of buying a phone with more storage, but that's only because those phones don't come with external SD card slots. I refuse to count that as an example of customizability.)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
con bo

[PROJECT] EvolutionUI, integrating Gamification into Android - open source research

Hi all developers,
We released our EvolutionUI research project as open source. In this project we are experimenting with integrating gamificiation (experience points, achievements, etc) into Android. This should make the phone easier to use and a lot more fun.
Feel free to have a look at the open source project and contribute to make it even better!
https://github.com/sonyxperiadev/EvolutionUI
Get the full story on Developer World.
/Pál Szász
SW developer at Sony

Hi
pal.szasz said:
Hi all developers,
We released our EvolutionUI research project as open source. In this project we are experimenting with integrating gamificiation (experience points, achievements, etc) into Android. This should make the phone easier to use and a lot more fun.
Feel free to have a look at the open source project and contribute to make it even better!
https://github.com/sonyxperiadev/EvolutionUI
Get the full story on Developer World.
/Pál Szász
SW developer at Sony
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Interesting! A very good initiative how can I put the file in my rom?

I actually like the idea a lot. Brings simple 'Fun' to the Android system. For some users it won't be though because there have been times where myself just wanted to dive into my Brand New Android device when I received it. However once I get used to it I get somewhat bored?! Lol, I'm a phone whore so that's definitely why. This might actually help me not want to move on to the 'Next Best Thing' once I get used to my current device.
I like it!:good:

Sound great....

i love the idea!!

Great idea, I actually think this is a great concept. Some users I've noticed find it white hard to get used to Android phones.
With this, they can explore and find out more things about their device yet figure out more about what they can do on it.
So great concept, I'll take a peek at the source
Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

Marília de Oliveira said:
Interesting! A very good initiative how can I put the file in my rom?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you are making/building your own ROM, then I guess you need to include the two projects into our repo and create Android.mk files for them.
If you just want to install it on your already flashed phone, there are precompiled binaries here: https://github.com/sonyxperiadev/EvolutionUI/releases
In each case note that this is not a finished product

This reminds me of app Android achievements
Used a lot then lost after factory reset and got lazy enough to not install it
Press thanks :good: if I've helped :highfive:

great job,, nice sound quality on sony

Good stuff! I'm trying to convince family to ditch iPhones since they're getting worse and worse on build quality under Mr. Cook. Their only real concern is learning a new phone. This would be extremely useful!

This has been already been done in form of an app. Been available for some time too!
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.pixelmark.phonechievements

Awesome work
Currently you can get achievements by :
1) Add 5 Shortcuts to Home Screen (Told by OP).
2) Open any app 5 times (Told by OP).
3) Add 5 Widgets to Home Screen (Discovered by me).
4) Add 10 Apps to Home Screen (Discovered by me).

pal.szasz said:
If you are making/building your own ROM, then I guess you need to include the two projects into our repo and create Android.mk files for them.
If you just want to install it on your already flashed phone, there are precompiled binaries here: https://github.com/sonyxperiadev/EvolutionUI/releases
In each case note that this is not a finished product
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Thanks !

Thanks for the feedback, both for the positive and the negative!
Btw, you should be able to adjust other applications to work with achievements. The launcher is just an example.
Any application can publish it's own set of features and achievements. I started to write some more detailed explanation, but it's not finished yet: https://github.com/sonyxperiadev/EvolutionUI/wiki
However you can always look at the launcher patches: https://github.com/sonyxperiadev/an...mmit/71460e8441066b3dfc1a796b05f196d7edab8ba8

honestly, this is a bad idea. let me explain why.
the main idea behind this concept is to make it easier to the user to get familiar with the user interface. The user is slowly understanding the "game mechanics" of one "level" (i. e. reduced interface) and once he mastered them, he's ready for the next level. This process repeats until the user has all the skills needed to use the phone fully.
Ideally, the user should have full access to all functionality. The user interface should be polished and user friendly enough that any user doesn't experience any steep hills on the learning curve.
like someone said, Everything Should Be Made as Simple as Possible, But Not Simpler.
The average user has changed since the first smartphone. Back then, the idea of interact with a machine was very new. Arguably nowadays people are being brought up surrounded by technology, making it easier for them to understand how a computational device work.
Hence the achievements system is purely a steep hill that every single user has to do, even an experienced user. More computation machines are owned by the average user: tablet, phone, watches. What I fear is that the user has to go through a little game every time he has a new device. An idea to be successful has to be widely implemented, and I don't see this happening.
One could argue that every device may have a different interface and new "skills" have to be learned in order to fully use the device. True, but where the problem really lies is within inconsistency across multiple devices.
Consistency across multiple devices. This is what the aim of a good designer should be. As mentioned, this interface should be clean and intuitive. It's not easy, Microsoft is trying to do it and even with all the skilled people and resources available they ain't quite there yet.
With what it is available at the moment, a AOSP look with a theme engine (and an advanced menu unlocked it via a semi hidden command, like tapping multiple times the build number to get to Dev options) is a very very good concept.
Sony is almost doing so with the recent devices and I'm really happy about their decision. Continue down this way you guys. This surely was a fun little project to do, hopefully it has taught you something on the way.
p. s.
I love Android and its ability to change interface when I feel like it. But once I found an interface I'm happy about, I'm sticking with it between flashing and phones. The interface is device agnostic. This idea is shared among my friends and personally it is shared across xda as well. Hopefully this could serve as a proff of the above.
pps
I really like the professionality of the latest Sony interfaces, it doesn't look like it was designed for teens. Thank you!
I hope I have expressed my ideas in a clear way without offending anyone. I have open to further discussion on this topic.

hrockh said:
honestly, this is a bad idea. let me explain why.
the main idea behind this concept is to make it easier to the user to get familiar with the user interface. The user is slowly understanding the "game mechanics" of one "level" (i. e. reduced interface) and once he mastered them, he's ready for the next level. This process repeats until the user has all the skills needed to use the phone fully.
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That's only one of the main ideas. Another important idea is to make it fun, to make a positive feedback to the user. I understand that some users don't need, but some do, some like an extra little bit of challenge, or simply a reward. For example my parents were very happy when they managed to find out how to merge two word documents, and they were eager to tell everybody
hrockh said:
Ideally, the user should have full access to all functionality. The user interface should be polished and user friendly enough that any user doesn't experience any steep hills on the learning curve.
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Click to collapse
I don't think this is possible. There is no way to make a user interface, which is easy to use both for beginner users and contains all the features required for advanced users. You mention the hidden developer options as an example. For me that's a good example why it doesn't work: it took me some time to find out what happened with the developer menu. The same with the offline map support in google maps. They removed the feature from the menu (to make it easier to use for the beginner users), and they added it as a hidden feature (type "ok maps" in the search?!). I also used an iPhone for 2 weeks, but didn't liked. And I liked the UI of the old UIQ phones. I also think the new trend of using more hidden gestures is also confusing for some users (especially the new swipe-sideways-to-delete-but-sometimes-to-show-more-options thingy).
Btw, we thought about advanced users, they can switch profile and disable the achievement system. Or switch profile only, but keep the achievement notifications just for fun. In many comments I saw people look at this as something they HAVE TO do. That's not the case. The point is to track what they are doing, and enable more and more. And of course there are not and there will never be microtransactions involved.
hrockh said:
Hence the achievements system is purely a steep hill that every single user has to do, even an experienced user.
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Like I mentioned before, this is not something the user HAS TO do. You can skip it by changing profiles.
hrockh said:
What I fear is that the user has to go through a little game every time he has a new device.
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We actually thought about this as well (but was not mentioned in the article for time/size reason)
We actually think this can help the user to switch to a different phone even if he used a smartphone already. Smartphones have new features compared to the previous one, so there is always something new to learn. The idea is the following:
* if switching from a phone which already supported EvolutionUI, we can copy the state (experiences, features, achievements obtained) and continue from the same point. This is rather easy to do, we already store this information locally (obviously, in case the user reboots the phone), so the only thing we need to do is transfer it to another device (probably via a cloud service). (NOTE: this is still in the concept phase, not implemented yet).
* if switching from a phone which did not support EvolutionUI, we can have a small builtin database, which maps the previous phone to an achievement state. For example if the previous user had an iPhone, we can set the medium profile instead of the beginner profile. It would be possible to even have customized profiles for certain phones (i.e. a small xml file describing all the features which needs to be enabled by start, since it was available in the previous phone)
hrockh said:
Consistency across multiple devices. This is what the aim of a good designer should be. As mentioned, this interface should be clean and intuitive. It's not easy, Microsoft is trying to do it and even with all the skilled people and resources available they ain't quite there yet.
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NOTE: the following is just my personal opinion:
Of course we cannot guarantee complete consistency, since we control the Sony phones only. But to be honest, I don't think consistency is that important: imagine, if all android phones would look and behave like the iPhone. Of course it would be nice for many users, they could switch to android easily. But what should those users who don't like the iPhone UI do? They could not buy any phone. And I also want to mention again, that IMHO there is no such thing as perfect UI. UIs evolved a lot, but it's still a matter a fashion: a couple of years ago everybody liked the real-life-looking apps on the iPhone. Now they like the new modern, simplified look. It's always changing, and just like with fashion, not everybody has the same taste.
hrockh said:
I hope I have expressed my ideas in a clear way without offending anyone. I have open to further discussion on this topic.
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Thank you, and I appreciate it!