For the lazy reader:
Your HD2 probably suffers from an audio lag using the default media players. This is evident in the transformers movies and many other videos. You just may not have noticed it for a variety of reasons. There is no fix yet.
Coreplayer/TCPMP are not solutions, since they defeat the purpose of proper HW scaling and decoding for battery life/processor utilization. They also render the video improperly (bad scaling, colorspaces, etc), and Coreplayer doesn't even support AAC+ (HE-AAC) audio.
BACKSTORY
The first day I got my HD2 from TMOUS, I noticed that the included Transformers videos suffered from what appeared to be close to a 250ms audio delay. Sure enough, the problem was universal to all video files unless an artificial delay is introduced into the transcoding process. This means that every video file placed on the device will play back with the audio playing up to 250ms (about 1/4 second) late. This turned out to be a very common problem with the HTC HD2 and many devices seem to suffer from it (including some other HTC devices mentioned in this thread), particularly in video playback. This is a not a placebo effect and is very noticeable--in some videos/scenes more than others due to video pacing.
Before you post to say "Mine doesn't seem to do it," read the following and check again just in case--you'll be surprised. As I mention below, to some people with untrained eyes, even a 250ms delay (about 1/4 second) isn't very noticeable, and without careful attention, the mind can sometimes be tricked into thinking the delay somehow "isn't real." The proof? Testimony of many members (read this thread), and of course: Here's a video of me playing the new test clip below.
This problem is well known and is often referred to as a "video sync" or "lip sync" problem. All seem to describe this problem in which the audio ends up getting significantly delayed.
STATUS
A list summarizing the current understanding of the situation.
1. The audio lag is up to 250ms (100-250ms) for ANY a/v stream. Please understand that the duration of 250ms is 1/4 of a single second; in some slow scenes (or even slow speech), this problem is very difficult to detect. However, in any very fast scenes or speech, it should become strikingly and painfully apparent to even the most callous of observers.
2. It does appear that a minority of HD2 users insist they are completely unaffected by the problem, and they are very vocal about it. This does introduce the possibility that, in fact, contrary to all common sense, there may be differences in HD2 hardware that are quite elusive. Alternatively, there is some yet-undiscovered combination of settings, roms, and drivers in which this problem disappears. More likely in many cases is the possibility that the issue is simply difficult to spot in some people's chosen sample footage.
3. HTC has acknowledged the problem in some form but is doing nothing about it, either because of development cost (software issue) or hardware issues. Again, there is also the possibility that there are other factors tying the company's hands.
4. In theoretical terms, the class 2 SD card read speed is more than sufficient to maintain sustained data flow of, for instance, a 300kbps audio/video stream. However, the delay issue persists even with the smallest of encodes, and even when the files are placed in the phone's built-in memory.
5. The Snapdragon chipset itself has been repeatedly implicated as being the culprit behind the A/V delay. Other potential candidates include driver issues, ROM issues, and/or general software issues on the part of HTC.
6. It is absolutely not a codec issue. This is not speculation or conjecture, but certainty. There is an overwhelming amount of evidence to support this, including the use of different players and encoders that produce valid streams--which play back perfectly in sync on any other computer or device. If there is any software you are using that you claim "doesn't get lag," you either do not experience lag/delay issues on your device, or the software is introducing opposite audio delay to compensate, which isn't a solution at all. The latter is known to occur with some community-produced frontends specifically for the HD2 as a crude workaround for this issue. However, it is hardly necessary to stress that the dilemma of not only re-encoding every existing media file for the HD2, but also the obvious lunacy of producing invalid files specifically so this device can read them.
7. The issue is ROM-independent. Cooked and stocked ROMs produce identical results. However, some users report a slight decrease in delay when they disable processor scaling (i.e. lock the device near 1ghz).
WHAT YOU CAN DO
First, decisively determine whether or not your device has this problem, which a large number of HD2 units seem to have. To test this, play this video (or others mentioned in this thread) on your HD2 in Windows Media Player or the HTC Video Player. Also try the included Transformers movie if you have a TMOUS unit. If you have any other media players on the device, you may also play these clips in those players with default settings. Note that all of these files are properly encoded and exhibit no audio lag when played using a computer or other device (including the original HTC HD). Report your findings, along with your OS version, ROM version, radio version, and model of HD2 (i.e. TMOUS or "European"). Also indicate your purchase date or, if known, the date of manufacture.
Secondly, once you've confirmed you have the issue, contact HTC and issue a report/complaint (in other words, request that they fix the problem). To support your complaint, you may refer to some of the ticket numbers at the bottom of this post, which are relevant to this issue. Once your complaint is filed, post the complaint ticket number here. It is crucial that HTC understands the prevalence of this problem or they will not fix it.
Finally, propose a solution (optional). If you manage to change device settings or install software/drivers/tweaks to eliminate the issue device-wide without destroying the file's actual synchronization (i.e. it remains in sync on the computer, other devices, etc), please post what you did! Please, no touting random 3rd party "converters" unless you understand the approach used by these to escape this sync/lag issue.
Ticket numbers (HTC Support)
10GBCW02ENA001052
10GBCW12ENA000301
10USCW13ENA001524
10GBCW12ENA000421
10AUCW15ENA000117
10GBCW13ENA000299
10ZACW16ENA000014 (HTC's acknowledgment)
Further Reading
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=612935
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=617163
Another test video. This was the default test clip until I replaced it with my own above.
Sorry, George, its not everybody's doesn't do it. Seriously, no matter what you may think of my mind, etc. mine doesn't seem to do it.
I'm not trying to say the problem is non-existent, you might be right. I didn't investigate enough.
But to give my 2 cents; I am very familiar with video encoding, digital audio and video and everything related. On a PC or on a TV i have an eagles eye (ear) for spotting sync problems. But I haven't noticed a sync problem on my HD2 whatsoever after having watched several movies on it... and 250ms should be very, VERY noticeable. Just 20ms usually catches my attention right away.
barty22 said:
I'm not trying to say the problem is non-existent, you might be right. I didn't investigate enough.
But to give my 2 cents; I am very familiar with video encoding, digital audio and video and everything related. On a PC or on a TV i have an eagles eye (ear) for spotting sync problems. But I haven't noticed a sync problem on my HD2 whatsoever after having watched several movies on it... and 250ms should be very, VERY noticeable. Just 20ms usually catches my attention right away.
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I'm also very familiar with encoding. I also notice stuttering problems in the video I play, in addition to sync issues (even baseline AVC with 1 ref, bitrate capped at 1000kbps, LC-AAC audio at 64kbps). This problem was even present on the included Transformers movies (the same movies play fine on the PC-- but with the exact same sync issue on coreplayer and TCPMP on the HD2).
Do you have the TMOUS device? What radio and ROM version are you using?
One other interesting thing I noticed. When the volume is turned down to 0, the choppiness present in some videos or situations dissappears, and when the audio is turned back up the choppiness comes back (tried in HTC Media Player).
This might relate directly to the sync issues I'm experiencing. What if there's a problem with the audio module or chipset rendering in general?
Change your thread title. its misleading. just because your device and someones friends first cousin sisters ex boyfriend suffer from this delay doesnt mean that ALL HD2s are affected. and to claim that all apps are affected? do you have all apps that are out there? kind of farfetched to say its a widespread occurence when this is the first time anyone has claimed such a "MAJOR FLAW!!!"
DialecticThought said:
Change your thread title. its misleading. just because your device and someones friends first cousin sisters ex boyfriend suffer from this delay doesnt mean that ALL HD2s are affected. and to claim that all apps are affected? do you have all apps that are out there? kind of farfetched to say its a widespread occurence when this is the first time anyone has claimed such a "MAJOR FLAW!!!"
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Changed; happy yet? And I'm not so sure it's as "misleading" as you think. I've seen more with the issues than without. If it occurs on all the included videos and apps, I think it's safe enough to say it's a problem with all of them.
If you don't think your device has it, feel free to post to the contrary. It would help to specify what version of the device you're using.
Based on the responses I'm getting, the problem seems constrained to the new 1024 Leo units (the TMOUS devices). If you have such a device and don't have this problem, I (and many others here who complain about the sync--it's not just me) would love to know about it.
A little less arrogance, please.
no audio issues here either... TMOUS stock using CorePlayer in GDI
To OP
I have TMOUS hd2 with stock rom, since I read this thread, I watched Transformers couple times using built-in player and Core player, but I did not notice any audio lag.
You said 250ms audio lag, what programs you used to measure this number, how you measure audio lag in game? Karaoke game?
Thanks
The lag is measured qualitatively; I adjust the skew until I find that there is no more lip sync issues on the video files (basically I change the delay until the audio matches exactly with what's being shown). Then I observe that this audio delay is the same in all videos (including the stock). Then I notice that games are a bit delayed; since the 250ms appears to hold for all of the videos I've tried (the audio delay was set by an mp4 container flag), I simply assumed that the lag that is observable in games is the same; it appears to be the same magnitude, at least.
I noticed it in the Transformer movie as well. (This is probably the first time I played it and paid attention.)
TCPMP can't handle the Transformers movies. I can't notice any lag while playing another video file I had on my sd card. The quality is much lower, compared to Transformers.
curiousGeorge said:
I simply assumed that the lag that is observable in games is the same;
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You know what they say about assumption ay? lol
See second post on in this page.
TCPMP solved my problems (Audio sync in videos, I don't have any delay at all in apps etc though).
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=617423&page=11
Don't know if that will help you out for your videos?
aceo07 said:
TCPMP can't handle the Transformers movies.
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TCPMP runs 2.5 - 3 hour action films fine for me.
I've experienced no audio sync issues in the couple included games I've played with (all but Prince of Persia) nor any in the videos I've played (both Transformers and a couple other mp4's I've encoded with CloneDVDMobile). I'm not a big fan of games on these though, but the video capabilities have been THOROUGHLY tested on my unit. Oh, and all of this has been played from the supplied 16GB card and two 8GB cards (both made by Kingston) which I already had. I've played the videos using both the included "Video Player" and TCPMP (took a little work to get MPEG2s to play decently though).
Stock T-Mo US --NOT HardSPL or flashed yet.
OS: 5.2.21889.5.0.87
Manila ver: 2.5.20121412.1
ROM ver: 2.10.531.1 (82076) WWE
ROM date: 02/22/10
Radio ver: 2.08.50.08_2
Protocol ver: 15.34.50.07U
I have reformatted the memory card and only replaced what I still wanted that was originally on it. I have not hard reset at all.
The only app I have installed which might affect performance is BsB Tweaks, and the only settings I've adjusted are: Power Saving - OFF; Hidden Camera Modes - ON; Camera 8MP - ON; and Wifi N - ON (I was curious about what this does, but it's not something I need.. I'm turning it off now, now that I'm thinking on it).
To those of you experiencing these issues: Are you only seeing this problem with games? Or is it affecting movies too?
HTC_Junglist said:
TCPMP runs 2.5 - 3 hour action films fine for me.
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I did not say that TCPMP couldn't handle long films. It was very specific to the Transformer movies. More specifically, I meant the exact Transformer movie files that came with the US T-Mobile HD2. TCPMP was not able to play those Transformer movie files smoothly.
However I do notice the audio lag in the default movie player it uses to the Transformers movies. The video is smooth, but the audio is lagged a little.
I am experiencing the exact delay that is being reported.
All you have to do is actually watch a few minutes of Transformers. Its really annoying.
aceo07 said:
I did not say that TCPMP couldn't handle long films. It was very specific to the Transformer movies. More specifically, I meant the exact Transformer movie files that came with the US T-Mobile HD2. TCPMP was not able to play those Transformer movie files smoothly.
However I do notice the audio lag in the default movie player it uses to the Transformers movies. The video is smooth, but the audio is lagged a little.
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Click to collapse
No you just said "The Transformers movies", I have 2 transformer movies & TCPMP plays them both fine. They did not come with the handset like yours though, but they are both high quality of 2.5gb each (Don't know how big the issued ones are, I'm in UK here so we didn't get them).
So maybe it's an issue with the way they were encoded too as well as a hardware issue.
i don't have such an issue with mine... games and movies play fine... maybe you have slower ear sensors or faster vision lol .... and I am curious why do you advertise this in your signature?????? if you were writing in a sports forum and had some disability, would you write that down in your signature as well??
i have this same problem. I loaded my favorite alert sounds from my previous phone. They all get a half second to a second chopped off. So do my ring tones. I have not seen a fix for this on any board yet. You are not crazy.
DialecticThought said:
Change your thread title. its misleading. just because your device and someones friends first cousin sisters ex boyfriend suffer from this delay doesnt mean that ALL HD2s are affected. and to claim that all apps are affected? do you have all apps that are out there? kind of farfetched to say its a widespread occurence when this is the first time anyone has claimed such a "MAJOR FLAW!!!"
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's not actually the first time, there was a thread running for a few days not so long ago about the same issue. And as far as I can ascertain, most, if not all HD2's are plagued with this issue.
I have a TmoUS HD2 and I haven't noticed any delay in sound.
Alright here's the deal, I got my HD2 when T-Mo had their sale on the 19th, so I'm pretty new. I've searched the forums, and I found several threads on the audio/video sync issue, but they don't help me too much with the problem I have. I used Red Kawa video conversion software to convert my MKV files to MP4, and while most people were saying the HD2 is the cause of the delay, I will note here that my videos were out of sync before I ever transferred them to the phone, so I had to delay them from the get-go. That's not my problem though. Now that I have about 10 videos in the correct format for the phone (800x480, video 1024kbps, audio 192kbps, -200ms delay) once I actually place them on the storage card and play them, they look fantastic until 7 minutes into any movie I play and the phone freaks out. Regardless of whether I'm in Album or WMP, and TCPMP won't play them hardly at all. I also can't use the slider to select any part of any video or the same thing happens, complete freakout. It's the weirdest thing, and there are videos I put on the phone without the delay that worked fine 2 days ago, but these mess up like clockwork EXACTLY 7 minutes in! Any advice here would be much appreciated. I haven't used Windows Mobile since the 2003 version, so I'm new to a lot of it.
Just wanted to add that the videos play perfectly on my computer, and I can use the slider on here to change spots...
Whoops! I thought I had both Anamorphic and Widescreen profiles set up the same, turns out one was on the Baseline Profile and another was on the Main Profile. As a result Anamorphic (Main) movies play fine, they're still not really slideable, but they don't jack up at 7 minutes.
I'm having one huge issue with this phone, and that is it not staying connected to the 3G at my house. I can sit in my living room and have 3-4 bars of 3G service, as can everyone else in my family, and my phone will just plumb disconnect and give me that lovely error message that you must "dismiss" before going on. Now if it was once in a blue moon I might be more forgiving, but it's all the time, literally almost every 2-3 minutes if I'm surfing. I don't really want to hard reset my phone because I'm not sure it will solve the issue, so if anyone has any advice here that would be fantastic. This is a freakin expensive phone, and I would hate for it to not work right after jumping through T-Mobile's hoops to get it. My friend's HD2 also has this issue and it's quite frustrating for both of us.
Now on to my question. Is it possible for Windows Mobile to even play 720p video? I have an mp4 copy of Kung Fu Panda for instance, that is 720p resolution and only 800mb, with a total bitrate of less than 1200kbps, and none of the media players (Album, WMP, TCPMP) will play this file at all. I didn't figure it would be that big a deal for this processor but I'm just curious, it's kind of a pain to re-encode EVERY video for playback on the phone. I have some MKV TV shows that are smaller files as well but 720p resolution and TCPMP won't play them either. Anything with that resolution causes TCPMP to crash. I was curious as to whether this was the phone not accepting the resolution or the audio track, which is a 5.1 surround track. I love this website and searched for both of these issues and couldn't find anything useful, so I have to ask y'all
Well, Homestar1217, I am also located in the DFW area and have the same problem. I constantly have to go to wireless controls in settings and turn my Data connection back on! You're right! It's VERY annoying!
It's probably the codec/container that you're using for your 720p file that's the issue.
Svegetto said:
It's probably the codec/container that you're using for your 720p file that's the issue.
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Okkkkk... and in english? Please?
It is extremely annoying. If I hadn't already passed my 14 day return policy I'd be taking it back pronto. The new vibrant catches my eye at this point. Quite honestly I'm disappointed with this phone. Both browsers are sub-par, it took forever for me to figure out just the right bunch of settings on 3 different pieces of software for proper video conversion, swype has about a 25 second delay in the sms app before it lets me type, and mainly, it can't even stay connected to the network! I got this guy because of the processor, but it seems like all of the effort went into Sense, and no one tried to optimize the rest of the OS for the beast of a processor that it packs. Anyways, didn't mean to turn this into a complaint post. One 720p file is AVC with an mp4 container and video bitrate of 932kbps, and audio is AAC 6 channel at 278kbps. the other is an MKV with AVC video at 3476kbps and AC-3 audio at 384kbps, also 6 channel. I thought TCPMP would play those files but it crashed on both. I hope all that makes sense to you guys, it does to me
Homestar1217 said:
It is extremely annoying. If I hadn't already passed my 14 day return policy I'd be taking it back pronto. The new vibrant catches my eye at this point. Quite honestly I'm disappointed with this phone. Both browsers are sub-par, it took forever for me to figure out just the right bunch of settings on 3 different pieces of software for proper video conversion, swype has about a 25 second delay in the sms app before it lets me type, and mainly, it can't even stay connected to the network! I got this guy because of the processor, but it seems like all of the effort went into Sense, and no one tried to optimize the rest of the OS for the beast of a processor that it packs. Anyways, didn't mean to turn this into a complaint post. One 720p file is AVC with an mp4 container and video bitrate of 932kbps, and audio is AAC 6 channel at 278kbps. the other is an MKV with AVC video at 3476kbps and AC-3 audio at 384kbps, also 6 channel. I thought TCPMP would play those files but it crashed on both. I hope all that makes sense to you guys, it does to me
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as far as TCPMP goes ... have you soft reset since you installed it? It crashed repeatedly on me before I soft reset, then, magic
if you want a different phne but are past the 14 day ask tmobile to send a new hd2 if you have the unit replaced 3 times in a 90 day period you are eligible for a handset exchange, I'm in this process right now... on my 3rd HD2 and i have the same data issue, after this i can upgrade to the mytouch slide,
*edit* as long as there is no heavy physical damage a.k.a. drop....
Just an fyi...I am in that third phone catagory. You won't get the phone you want...they offered me a Dash 3g! I said "That's not a comparable phone". They said that was the exchange phone and now they're sending me my 4th HD2. I'm having terrible lag issues while texting.
joe the lag issues might be happening because your threads are getting too big.i was having the same lag issue through the regular t9 texting then i switched over to swype in the settings and had a 15 second delay before i could text and realised after some help from this forum that there was too many messages in some contacts threads so everytime it gets to around 60 messages i just delete the thread. This happens with a lot of phones not just this one so give it try and see if it helps with your problem.
Not posted in a while as I've been largely enjoying the Mojo trouble free. However yesterday I was watching one of my video files using SPMC and it just stopped, sending me back to the video selection screen in SPMC. I'm using a 2Tb WD USB hard drive, on my Mojo is CM 12.1, and SPMC is my usual choice to play files back.
This was an MP4, 1080p at 2.7Gb, and this was a 3 hour movie, which ceased playback at the 2 hour 15 minute mark. I attempted to resume to playback, but it seemed to try and then immediately dumped me back again.
My first thought was it must be a corrupt file, so I tried it on my PC but there were no issues. I go back to the Mojo to try restarting the film from the beginning again, skipping ahead to the troublesome part, but it stopped again at exactly the same moment.
I then tried VLC, and to my surprise I found this was exactly the same. Playback ceased at the same point exactly.
So now I'm worried it's the drive, so I decide to plug it into my Raspberry Pi which is running the latest OSMC, and to my surprise it's fine. Playback is trouble free. Plugging the drive into my PC to play the file reveals it plays fine. It has to be the Mojo, but it must be a global setting or something. I've tried clearing the app cache, but it's made no difference. To be honest I don't really know where to look next. Can anyone help? Thanks all.
tl;dr: File plays fine on PC and Raspberry Pi, stops abruptly on Mojo using SPMC or VLC. Must be a setting somewhere to fix. Help!
Well now here's an interesting discovery to make after several months of ownership! I always was slow on the uptake...
It seems on further inspection that the Mojo/CM 12.1 doesn't like any of my "large" files above 2.5Gb. I have tried some others around that size and larger, and they are all the same. The are slow to use (skipping forward etc.), and then just give up so far into playback. My drive is formatted NTFS, so I don't think that's the issue.
I'm really hoping there's something I can do to fix this.
Aaaand on even further inspection, file size has nothing to do with it. There's a number of files that just won't play very nicely, big or small. They lag when skipping through, and then cease so far into playback.
I'd read that Android wasn't so great with video codecs generally, and this must be what they mean. Can't believe I didn't notice it before.
I had the same issue with videos over 2GB. It is an issue with NTFS. The same files played fine on a FAT32 drive. I have since gone to using a NTFS NAS instead. Works flawlessly with Kodi.
Thanks for replying. I've ended up simply remuxing and replacing those problematic files, which seems to have resolved the issue. It's a pity, but I am finding the Mojo a very fussy and particular system indeed. What a shame, as it is so capable at hardware level.
Tried playing the file with Kodi?
That's usually my fix to those type of situations.
AndroidSupaFan said:
Tried playing the file with Kodi?
That's usually my fix to those type of situations.
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Sorry for late reply. Yes all the video apps show the same result, which means it must be the system. I've read up a little on this and have discovered other folks with similar issues when using Android for video playback. I'm fine now anyway - like I say, I remuxed these troublesome files and made them smaller but no less qualitative. Some of them were quite big for DVD rips (around 3-4Gb) and did not need to be so. Thank god for Handbrake! It worked out well in the end as my drive was beginning to be pressed for space with so many of these, and I've managed to free up 70Gb just by being a little bit more conservative.