Database Users

So you think Universal is not slow?

I had the opportunity to play with a Wizard today.
I am going to say just one thing:
When I flip the keyboard thingie on the Wizard, the screen flip is instantaneous. Just instantaneous. (for the record, I happen to know exactly how long 1/5th of a second is, and it is not even that long)
On the Universal it takes what, 3 - 4 seconds?
Yes, yes! higher resolution and all that. But does that justify the same function on Universal to be at least 20 times slower? I think not!
I really can't believe that Universal is such a dog. Could it be something we are missing, like the CPU is underclocked by default or something?
Is there a way to find out how fast the CPU is running at a given time?

atekant said:
I had the opportunity to play with a Wizard today.
I am going to say just one thing:
When I flip the keyboard thingie on the Wizard, the screen flip is instantaneous. Just instantaneous. (for the record, I happen to know exactly how long 1/5th of a second is, and it is not even that long)
On the Universal it takes what, 3 - 4 seconds?
Yes, yes! higher resolution and all that. But does that justify the same function on Universal to be at least 20 times slower? I think not!
I really can't believe that Universal is such a dog. Could it be something we are missing, like the CPU is underclocked by default or something?
Is there a way to find out how fast the CPU is running at a given time?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
atekant: you're right on the button! I can almost prove it through trial and failure, but not conclusively. If you read the thread about the Jasjar and MDA Pro topping out at 624Mhz after being overclocked using PHM (Pocket Hack Master 2005), you will see that the Universal is not just slow in screen refresh rates, but also underperforms in the video playback department.
Plug in the mains adapter and performance issues are gone!! Successfully overclock to just 520Mhz (I know! It's supposed to run at that already!) and a lot of these performance issues are somewhat alleviated.
Personally, I believe that some universals have not different speed rating CPUs', but different chipsets, as not all Universal owners experience this problem e.g. Sub69 is ok on this front. But many other jasjar owners and MDA Pro owners have this same problem. My wife is on her 3rd MDA Pro, but that might be down to ROM version. Nonetheless, unless I overclock her Universal to 520 or 624Mhz, video performance is affected on videos encoded at a resolution of 640x480 (regardless of video bitrate).
Things have much improved on my own jasjar since my last hard-reset and not installing any 3rd party software that wasn't designed for WM5.0.
Anyway, that's my experience anyhow.

3rd party soft's not designed for wm05
but surely mackaby007, if a piece of software is not loaded into memory (ie used), why in the hell should it affect the performance, this is another insidious bug in my opinion, as i told u i am not going to try and hard reset just to test, but never should (or had with the o/ses i used like win, linux, epoc, symbian, unix, beos, macos, dos... etc) an application affect video or any other performance if its not loaded!

Re: Crossed wires!!
nabil2000 said:
but surely mackaby007, if a piece of software is not loaded into memory (ie used), why in the hell should it affect the performance, this is another insidious bug in my opinion, as i told u i am not going to try and hard reset just to test, but never should (or had with the o/ses i used like win, linux, epoc, symbian, unix, beos, macos, dos... etc) an application affect video or any other performance if its not loaded!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
nabil2000, I think we're getting our wires a little crossed here. I agree with you to a large extent that it could well be a down to software bugs, therefore affecting CPU utilisation, which will in turn affect performance, i.e. refresh rates, speed od operation and most obviously for me, video playback. having said that, you are aware that sub69 and I have the identical ROM and o/s build version. That doesn't leave much room for software being the culprit, being that we still get differences in general performance. I don't believe my unit is at all faulty. I do think, however, that there is a two-fold problem that concerns some but not all Universal owners:
1) I don't believe for one second that all manufactured units have identical hardware, only specs! Different manufactured chips with same performance rating, but different response in real world use. This is nothing new in the world of computing.
2)I do believe that the o/s / ROM is bug ridden and can/will be resolved in due time.
As for your point about unloaded software affecting performance, I agree totally, that is highly improbable.

rom leakage into memory
maybe soft resets do not get rid of the unloaded apps completely, and so we get remnants/debris of apps left behind, which can only be removed with hard resets...
so if this is the case, and my hunch is that it is, a rom upgrade which will flush memory properly and completely every soft reset will get the problem solved... (or allow some backup mechanism that will allow for non-destructive hard resets)...
as for the hardware issue, i am not a chip processor manufacturer so i would not know, but some people in this board seem to know that this is the case (ie variations in hardware that preserve official hardware specs, with some having the potential to be more performant than others beyond what is advertised)...
either way, my contention is the better the specs, advertised or otherwise, the happier the clients, and the better for the future of the HTC/i-mate dealership venture ...
and by the way that trick they pulled (htc/i-mate) that the reason they included less ram was to preserve battery life, the same stunt was pulled by nokia to justify why they used a slower processor (150 mhz i think) on their nokia n9500 communicator...
they think customers are fools, but we are becoming more astute and discerning than ever before in our choices... so they better watch out instead of insulting our intelligence

Well, no, not quite 3-4 seconds for the screen flip. More like 1-2 seconds

If you disable the O2 Active interface by going to Programs>Install Type>Basic then soft reset, it does speed up the screen flipping somewhat.

MDA Pro, Jasjar, Dopod, SPV M5000 and Exec, oh & VPA IV!
Tha's assuming that every Universal owner has an Exec! :lol:

Removing all Today Plug-ins will increase the speed as well...

mackaby007 said:
...Successfully overclock to just 520Mhz (I know! It's supposed to run at that already!) and a lot of these performance issues are somewhat alleviated...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
When I use PHM to look at the current processor speed, it already reports 520. Are you saying yours reported a slower speed?
If mine shows 520, should I just leave it alone and not use PHM??
(The test at 624 fails each time)

[/quote]Well, no, not quite 3-4 seconds for the screen flip. More like 1-2 seconds
Actually, for me its more like 6 seconds, painfully slow...
Fernando
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

I am a bit confused here. On one hand, it would seem that this is entirely a WM5 issue, as other devices with VGA screens do switch instantaneously (e.g., iPaq 4700 and others); it is not good that the JASJAR takes this long. However, the K-JAM screen rotation is fast but it has a QVGA screen, so it may be a VGA thing after all.
Or is it that WM5 and VGA don't "mix well"?
Any thoughts?
Fernando

Not trying to be the exception to the rule here but screen switching on by JJ is actually instantaneous. I have not done any RU and am still on the old one.
Those experiencing more than a second must be doing so due to plug-ins and non-WM5 compliant software installed.

"trick they pulled (htc/i-mate) that the reason they included less ram was to preserve battery life, the same stunt was pulled by nokia to justify why they used a slower processor (150 mhz i think)"
Hmm, If you read the article on Buzznet about power, written by a MS employee, or have ANY knowledge of electronics you would understand that both of these are completely true.
Less ram, or slower processor = longer battery life.
I used Wm5 on my Himalaya and NEVER ONCE went over 50meg ram used, let alone 64. Why on earth would you want 128???

orinoco said:
other devices with VGA screens do switch instantaneously (e.g., iPaq 4700 and others)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
4700 has an ATI video chipset, Himalaya and
Blueangel too, and the screen flipping is
done in hardware.
Universal and Magician use the LCD controller
built into the CPU, so they are dog slow.
Don't have any info on Wizard.

I knew the Jasjar was lacking something!!
cr2 said:
orinoco said:
other devices with VGA screens do switch instantaneously (e.g., iPaq 4700 and others)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
4700 has an ATI video chipset, Himalaya and
Blueangel too, and the screen flipping is
done in hardware.
Universal and Magician use the LCD controller
built into the CPU, so they are dog slow.
Don't have any info on Wizard.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I knew i wasn't loopy! That would explain poorer video performance on the Universal then, wouldn't it? Whilst the Universal is a very capable video player, it lacks power for higher resolution vids, hence the need for overclocking or the mains adapter to eradicate the 'jerking' some of have experienced in vids encoded at 640x480 @ more than 600kbps!
This issue of mine is becoming old hat now, so I'll give it a rest, but my fears have been justified, in that, whilst my jasjar is now performing beautifully, the only area left for me to complain is in the speed of screen flipping from standby mode and videoplack at high resolutions - lack of dedicated ATI video chipset explains it all to me now.
Cheers guys. :wink:

Re: So you think Universal is not slow? Only in two areas!!
CJSnet said:
mackaby007 said:
...Successfully overclock to just 520Mhz (I know! It's supposed to run at that already!) and a lot of these performance issues are somewhat alleviated...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
When I use PHM to look at the current processor speed, it already reports 520. Are you saying yours reported a slower speed?
If mine shows 520, should I just leave it alone and not use PHM??
(The test at 624 fails each time)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
CJSnet: Sorry mate, don't waste any more time on PHM. I won't anyway. It doesn't make enough of a difference for me in what I want from the Universal. I got my speed boost for the o/s from another program called GSPocketmagic. Don't ask me how this has worked out, I don't know, but it works for me!!
As has been made obvious, the universal has been manufactured without an ATI video chipset, therefore putting more strain on the CPU to handle screen refresh, flipping and video playback! So, in my opinion, we have to accept it as one of the shortcummings of the Universal. In every other way though, my Jasjar is now very quick and I'm not complaining.
best of luck. :wink:

something is seriously wrong with the performance of the xperia

i sure hope these get fixed in the coming months by our devs and cooks
i just got a chance to play with an old ATOM EXEC (64mb,qvga,520mhz.no 3g...etc). i was amazed on how much faster and snappier the device. i know that the screen has one fifth the pixels, but not everything is depending on graphics. here are some things i noticed ive grouped them into 5 differnt "benchmark classes
1- anything with any graphics effects(non 3d) like scrolling rotating...etc is infinitely smoother and cooler despite the lower resolution and crappier image quality. pointUI2 was a solid50fps vs only ~20fps on x1, fingermenu 1.10 was about 15-20fps vs only about 5fps, miniflow was about 30 fps vs an unusable ~5-6fps. zooming and panning with htc image viewer was butter smooth unlike the "good enough" on the x1. scrolling and navigating in UCweb feels a lot smoother on the atom
2-opening the windows directory takes about 1.5 seconds vs 4-5 seconds on my itje's 3.5rc1(one of the fastest roms i have tested. cold booting takes about half the time but thats to be expected due to the smaller windows folder.
3-opening demo PocketArtist is 6 seconds vs 8 on x1.
4-youtube videos using the application @normal quality setting does not lag at all. on my x1 it does sometimes when it is viewing while its finishing the download over wifi. m2d was not as good looking as tf3d but its so much smoother
5-navigating various parts of the OS (for example jumping from programs to settings-> clock-> connections - activesync- connections...etc) was just noticeably snappier on the EXEC. switching to landscape was faster on the X1 though
while the experience of the x1 is clearly better due to the screen,resolution,other phone features and all, i just cant but feel extremely disappointed with how things currently are especially the first observation.
I'm really interested in our cooks opinion on how performance may end up being improved in a major way in the coming few months in any of the above situations. I'm obviously interested in the first point as its very easy to notice compared to the other points. can we expect something worthwhile in terms of performance in wm6.5

btw i also tested a cooked dutty v4 htc diamond and i dont think the diamond was much better than the x1 in the performance.

I don't know if your x1 is customised or what, but so far my take is the X1 is the fastest winmo phones I ever own in the last few years, considering those I have owned include both smartphone and professional, wm5 and wm6 (touch pro, samsung i780, omnia, treo 500v, moto q9h, etc)

that reply was more fanboish than i would like it to be . i think the X1 (despite some problems) is the best htc phone made. but current generation QC-based phones (x1,tpro,hd and diamond) seem to be suffering from a performance problem and im not sure whats at blame.
are you noticing better performance than me?????? im using itje 3.5rc1
1- anything with any graphics effects(non 3d) like scrolling rotating...etc is infinitely smoother and cooler despite the lower resolution and crappier image quality. pointUI2 was a solid50fps vs only ~20fps on x1, fingermenu 1.10 was about 15-20fps vs only about 5fps, miniflow was about 30 fps vs an unusable ~5-6fps. zooming and panning with htc image viewer was butter smooth unlike the "good enough" on the x1. scrolling and navigating in UCweb feels a lot smoother on the atom
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

na....im totalli with you that ATOM EXEC is way faster than X1. no doubt. my frnd got an atom. but u hav 2 consider this
1. x1 resoution is 5times more as you said. thats like going from 800x600 resolution to 1920x1250. dats a HUGE jump and just imagine if just a ram and cpu upgrade is enogh to handle that kind of load.
2. also, i noticed that you r running tf3d. now installing that copies bout 1400 files into your windows folder. dat will take time.
3 .i don agree with apps running faster. youtube or PocketArtist, both run lot faster on x1.
4. navigation (for example jumping from programs to settings-> clock-> connections - activesync- connections...etc) is faster because, there are more things installed in you x1 than in your atom. also dont forget the fact that atom runs on lower resolution. a QVGA app that takes 200KB of RAM might take upto 2MB of ram when converted to WVGA.

im not the best guy to understand the problem and the solution but if i were to guess it could be one or more of the following :
1- very slow performing on-board flash memory 2-unoptimised code in apps for w/vga
3- used 528mhz cpu is not fast enough
4-none of the common apps i mentioned makes use of the hardware(which means that they will be slow even on tegra + 1ghz cpus
5-HTC/SE made a bad design by putting slow cpu/graphics on a WVGA screen. they are biting more than what they can chew
as mentioned earlier. can we realistically expect a major change in performance if the cooks and devs here focus their effort on improving this

THE GRIZZ said:
im not the best guy to understand the problem and the solution but if i were to guess it could be one or more of the following :
1- very slow performing on-board flash memory 2-unoptimised code in apps for w/vga
3- used 528mhz cpu is not fast enough
4-none of the common apps i mentioned makes use of the hardware(which means that they will be slow even on tegra + 1ghz cpus
5-HTC/SE made a bad design by putting slow cpu/graphics on a WVGA screen. they are biting more than what they can chew
as mentioned earlier. can we realistically expect a major change in performance if the cooks and devs here focus their effort on improving this
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
well first thing as mention your running TF3d and that take up alot of the speed on your x1 i did reinstall of my phone to the newest orginal rom from se without any kind of tf3d and gotta say my phone was twice as fast when it had tf3d on it..also most of todays apps are not optimized for the newest phones out on the marked second try some real test with some games (eks Tony Hawk Pro Skater 2 - Call of Duty 2 -) (convert some mp3s or videos on the phone) Test with some emulators like fpsece - pocketsnes - picodrive then you will hopefully see what your x1 is good for

i noticed when i have lot of apps open ..the phone becomes slow..and simple functions such as opening Menu's takes more than 1 second.
so when this happens.,..i use the 'FreeRam' of SKTools...and clear up everything.
then it becomes fast as before.

lets not get sidetracked from the main issue that our x1(HD,tpro,diamond also) performs quite badly in certain 2D graphics applications as i mentioned in the first post. can the graphics accelerator on our x1 be used to accelerate.
the iphone had a 400mhz CPU with no graphics acceleration and half the memory and the interface of all its apps looks slick, smooth and cool. if the iphone can do this with its hardware, how come our phone cant. i think there is more to this then the resolution

THE GRIZZ said:
lets not get sidetracked from the main issue that our x1(HD,tpro,diamond also) performs quite badly in certain 2D graphics applications as i mentioned in the first post. can the graphics accelerator on our x1 be used to accelerate.
the iphone had a 400mhz CPU with no graphics acceleration and half the memory and the interface of all its apps looks slick, smooth and cool. if the iphone can do this with its hardware, how come our phone cant. i think there is more to this then the resolution
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
One of the major problems here is windows mobile. It's just a mess.
Another is the resolution. Even on 2d, it makes a hell lot of difference. There's like ... 500% more pixels, with only 50% more performance.

THE GRIZZ said:
lets not get sidetracked from the main issue that our x1(HD,tpro,diamond also) performs quite badly in certain 2D graphics applications as i mentioned in the first post. can the graphics accelerator on our x1 be used to accelerate.
the iphone had a 400mhz CPU with no graphics acceleration and half the memory and the interface of all its apps looks slick, smooth and cool. if the iphone can do this with its hardware, how come our phone cant. i think there is more to this then the resolution
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you did look around in XDA, you should know that Qualcomm's CPU is well known for it poor performance (especially for 2D/3D). X1/HD is already the best you can get compare to Kaiser but still far left behind PDA w/ Intel Xscale CPU. See for yourself for Diamond vs. Asus P565 (the current performance king):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZHYimU-VHM&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lCI6JyfmuPU&feature=related
Since it's bascially a hardware issue, there is not much we can do on it performance side. But X1 still my best one I can get base on it's overall features (3.5mm audio, USB 2.0, WVGA, UTMS w/ US's 850/1900), build quality, form factor, and of course it's look.
iPhone? It does have PowerVR chipset for graphic acceleration. And it's simply a joke for this date if I have to give up multi-tasking (for all 3rd party apps) for it's smooth and cool factor. My X1 is a workhorse and I want it to run IGo8 w/ Coreplayer player over A2DP/AVRCP concurrently.

Resolution does indeed play a big role. When I launch a program that needs WGAFIXv3 running, i notice how the framerate is practically doubled....
Hopefully Windows Mobile 6.5 will do justice just as Windows 7 is doing TREMENDOUS justice in terms of speed/performance. I finally appreciate the direction Microsoft is taking. It seems that ever since the introduction of Windows Media Player 7 (all versions up to 6 loaded in a SNAP and then 7 and up started taking forever to open unless you upgrade to the latest/fastest PC), back in the day, Microsoft's norm was to build more and more bulkier mega-code-loading software and this rubbed off on the mobile side of things too. Even SQL Server Express 2005 takes sooooooo long to load on PC's. Everything of theirs needed soooo much disk access to open up until Windows 7 came along.
So yeah I'm hoping a slimlined approach on the mobile platform will redeem the Windows Mobile brand

Diamond vs. Asus P565 (the current performance king):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZHYi...eature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lCI6J...eature=related
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Click to collapse
these things in the video are very CPU intensive stuff. the stuff im complaining about is far simpler stuff
i am talking about simple none 2d graphics intensive image scrolling and simple dialog boxes movements. surly this stuff is not that hard to handle. decoding mpeg4 video at full screen is surly FAAAAAR more work and yet the x1 does an OK job hadling it. choking at something like displaying dialog boxes, schrolling screen full of text, handling menu selections...etc fingermenu,ucweb, miniflow, album, s2v are hardly graphics intensive stuff
question: is anyone noticing much better results then mine on a lite or even naked ROM
anything with any graphics effects(non 3d) like scrolling rotating...etc is infinitely smoother and cooler despite the lower resolution and crappier image quality. pointUI2 was a solid50fps vs only ~20fps on x1, fingermenu 1.10 was about 15-20fps vs only about 5fps, miniflow was about 30 fps vs an unusable ~5-6fps. zooming and panning with htc image viewer was butter smooth unlike the "good enough" on the x1. scrolling and navigating in UCweb feels a lot smoother on the atom
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

I have replied to your post on the Turbo X1 thread, there are some answers, but maybe not the magic bullet you and I have been both looking for.

after messing around to get speedbooster to work. i managed assign higher priority to some of the apps that are suffering. its giving some worthwhile enhancements nothing major though.
im begening to think that the only way we can get get improved performance and iphone-like "experiance" is for all the software need to be re-written to use the graphics hardware of the QC chipset. that does not look very likely even on future software since the majority of the avalable phones dont have it. writing software for wm requires it to be written for the lowest common denomiator hardware.
software for LCD hardware will continue to make WM software a bit ugly for a very long time indeed

I am quite mystified by threads such as these but I put it down to two things... 1, I am not such an intense nor knowledgable user as the OP of the thread and 2, I dont use my phone in the same way or do not expect it to be used as I would my laptop or have the same level of software as the OP of the thread...
TBH I have been amazed by the capability of this phone and am pleasantly surprised time and again by its speed, functionality and performance... most of my programs are up and running in incredibly short order, I can access menus and the like almost instantaneously and even the windows folder (previously the worst folder to access using file explorer time wise) is much faster now when I open it... (I have upgraded to the R2A ROM and its much much better)... I find that videos are very watchable and play with no lag and the audio/video in sync... overall its exactly what it says on the tin in my ever so humble experience... although in my own admission I am not very savvy when it comes to these things so perhaps I am misunderstanding the fact that it is supposed to be as fast and capable as my laptop...

even the new generation htc phones (diamond2, touchpro2 )are using the same QC msm7200a present in all common WM w/vga phones http://www.htc.com/www/product/touchdiamond2/specification.html .
i think its about time software development should focused on creeating two versions of the same software
-qvga for compatibility with any phohe (including non graphics accelerated vga phones)
-w/vga version with hardware acceleration since all htcphones released since the kiaser use it

Shadowdh, i think the x1 is the best htc-made phone ever. but i dont understand why many people(you included) are ignoring (or not noticing) the fact that its quite slow in certain aspects that i have highlighted in the first post

THE GRIZZ said:
Shadowdh, i think the x1 is the best htc-made phone ever. but i dont understand why many people(you included) are ignoring (or not noticing) the fact that its quite slow in certain aspects that i have highlighted in the first post
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The Grizz,
I believe it's similar to the whole issue of being able to notice "ghosting" on LCD screens. I personally know what it is, but yet I don't care enough to want to bother about it. For others, some people may not know what ghosting is until you show it to them and once you have "opened their eyes", they irrevocably develop the habit of constantly taking note as it happens on their screens.
And I believe this is ultimately the same issue with the issues you describe. Some people are just really content and amazed with the fact that such a small little bugger can still pack a punch. Sure, it'll slip up once or there, but for the most part, people are happy with what they've spent on the phone.
My 3 cents,
Cheers.

THE GRIZZ said:
1- very slow performing on-board flash memory
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Maybe the SD card tuneup could help you speeding up the off-board flash memory goving you more speed from SDHC then internal flash...
THE GRIZZ said:
3- used 528mhz cpu is not fast enough
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
One of the basic science rules is: if you gain on one thing you have to give in on other things.
Higher speed means higher power consumption. In time a higher speed will be possible with the same power consumption because the cpu size becomes smaller. But for that you will have to wait.
So what do you want? A speedy phone with unacceptable power consumption or do you want to timetravel to get the newest technology before we can imagine how it should look like ?

X1 slow strategus

X1 one with it's GPU and CPU .. it cant even handle this..
it is slow and i am ashamed

OMG People!!!
Will you stop whining for once in your life time?
When will you get that if the application hasn't been custom made for the X1 (in order to use the GPU acceleration features be it 2D/3D) IT WILL RUN SLOWLY.
Take Xtrakt for example...does that move slowly to you? And it's 3D!! WHY, because it uses the hardware acceleration provided by the GPU.
Jeez...

A bit harsh
but needed to be said
I also have done my fair share of moaning but i will not let go of my X1

But the interesting part is that Warcraft II runs smoothly and fast on a Touch HD, maybe we have some bad settings somewhere...

warcraft 2 runs fine on the x1 too, i have been playing it for a while now

I have it installed as well btw. It is running a bit slow but nonetheless i spent an hour playing until those BASTARDS destroyed me!
@leobox1 : Hope you didn't take it personally. I just got sick and tired of reading threads where people blame the hardware where no software optimization was done to use it at full potential.

stormlv said:
I have it installed as well btw. It is running a bit slow but nonetheless i spent an hour playing until those BASTARDS destroyed me!
@leobox1 : Hope you didn't take it personally. I just got sick and tired of reading threads where people blame the hardware where no software optimization was done to use it at full potential.
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no offense.. i just cant see why a 500+ mhz cpu is so slow.. mine is laggy

flext said:
warcraft 2 runs fine on the x1 too, i have been playing it for a while now
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Click to collapse
Can you share your game folder with us? Just zip or rar it and put it on a filesharing site, eg. http://fisier.ro/
Or did you just download it from here and it already worked fast?? http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=495136
Mine is not lagging, I can scroll on the minimap very fast and smooth, but building something or waiting for peasants to mine takes ages. The speed slider is at max.

Then set the game speed faster?...

Even with fastest speed set, it still runs very slow. And if it's true that it works fast under Touch HD, than we could expect speedups for X1 too.
I don't think it's X1's fault, but more of a bad optimization of the specific software.

fastest for me still slow.. even menus are slow.. its like you have to press "specially" hard

Try the new version - the menus are faster.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=3548425

a "gpu" well more like so and so video acceleration that x1 have is
not something programs automatically take advantage of
if the program is just written for pure software render by the cpu
you can have a nvidia onboard magic 8800 and it will still be dormant

Totally agree with the mod.

Rudegar said:
a "gpu" well more like so and so video acceleration that x1 have is
not something programs automatically take advantage of
if the program is just written for pure software render by the cpu
you can have a nvidia onboard magic 8800 and it will still be dormant
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
true true.. just that x1 has a 528mhz cpu !!

[DEV(ish)]Minecraft!

Okay, so I got minecraft to work using Backtrack (HERE) in one of the other threads, but it runs poor(<1 FPS).
Basically, what I did was install the dummy video driver for xorg(xserver-xorg-video-dummy, iirc), and use THIS script to launch it. I then attached x11vnc to it.
The default TinyVNC server doesn't support OpenGL, you'll need to use xorg + x11vnc + the dummy
As far as getting minecraft to run, I got the appropriate liblwjgl build from HERE.
I got the appropriate jinput build from HERE
After you run MC for the first time, it'll download everything and crash. Replace the ~/.minecraft/bin/native/ files with the ones in these packages. The packages don't need to be installed, just extracted to get at those files.
You'll also need libmawt, provided by THIS package. That does need to be installed. Mine was broken on install, I didn't care to fix it, but it still worked. It just needs at that one file.
I got the best luck connecting to a network server with the MC process renice'd to -15 or so.
This is what should launch it:
Code:
./Xdummy :2 &
x11vnc -display :2 -noshm &
nice -n -15 java -jar minecraft.jar
Then connect to localhost:5900 for VNC.
As I said, it's unplayable right now. I was hoping someone could help come up with some ideas on getting it to play decently, as it's good for little more than getting on and chatting to people right now.
The only idea I had for boosting it was to find a tegra driver and try to get X to start with that without trying to attach to a VT(Will that dummy file do it?).
Also, the controls for VNC aren't suited for MC, obviously. I was using an external keyboard when I was playing with it.
I'll post a video of it running as soon as I can get a camera. My Iconia is my camera, heh.

Yeah, it runs poor on my HP Touchsmart tm2 with i3, so I doubt this would be any close. It's surprising though, considering the 8-bit graphics in the game itself.
Sent from my A500 using XDA Premium App

well thats 8 bit graphics on top of rendering millions and millions of cubes. from a game design stand point. its really impressive.

gh123man said:
well thats 8 bit graphics on top of rendering millions and millions of cubes. from a game design stand point. its really impressive.
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I'm assuming that was sarcasm...

It really is impressive. Most 3d games contain static rendered floors and walls. Whereas Minecraft requires that each individual block be rendered as a stand-alone manipulative item. It really does require a lot of number crunching and resources.

Yea, MC's large memory usage isn't just inefficient code.

Haha, well you're right from the standpoint of the fact that it's millions of blocks rendered, but if it's going to be that intensive, why use the 8-bit blocks? I love the game, but honestly, it's a little frustrating that it only works on my quad-core desktop. I'm curious to see how much fog will have to be in place for the Xperia Play version out soon.
Sent from my A500 using XDA Premium App

cybermage1 said:
I'm assuming that was sarcasm...
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*facepalm*
The amount of power needed to run something isn't just determined by flashy colours.

Maddmatt said:
*facepalm*
The amount of power needed to run something isn't just determined by flashy colours.
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Right but seriously - a cube at most is three polygons (squares) rendered at any given time. You don't bother to render faces that you can't see due to occlusion. If you store the world in a matrix(s) optimized for calculating what's viewable then OpenGL with hardware acceleration handles all of that very well and very fast.
If you're telling me that the reason Minecraft performance sucks (and yes, I think we all agree it does) is because it's rendering so many cubes, and if that's correct.... then the developer is truly dumb. And rich, but still dumb.
I've done OpenGL and DirectX graphics programming for isometric views before and it's amazing the amount of data that can be rendered very fast on a 486 when done correctly.
The Tegra2 renders somewhere (couldn't find exact specs) near 35 million polygons per second. If Minecraft is generating 35 million polygons for every frame, that would explain the 1 fps and support my opinion.
But I digress from the original topic. It'd be nice if the developer would put out an optimized Android version - just think how many more of us (including me) would buy it yet AGAIN just to be able to play on our tablets and phones. lol.

Rendering isn't the only slow part, it has to calculate what to render, light, etc... for each block.
Each chunk (16x16x128) has 32768 blocks in it, at any one time you may have upwards 500 chunks loaded (checking right now, I have 441 after playing for maybe 20 minutes), that is 16,384,000 blocks. Granted, you're never rendering all of those at once, but just cycling through all of them and reading all of them is incredibly intensive, on both RAM and CPU.
In the MC code(Check MCP for tools to decompile and deobfuscate it), you'll see that he's only checking if another block is on the face, and using that to determine if that face should render or not. My assumption on this is that it's quicker to render a face than it is to check occlusion for it.
Also, beyond that, you'd have to consider other things, such as the overhead for things like the X server, VNC, and the obvious lack of hardware acceleration on the X server.

Overkill Resolution for high gfx gaming? Samsung got you covered!

Hello all, one of the main reasons why i chose the xperia z1 compact over a galaxy s5 by then was that i knew that z1 compact had much more power to spare for future gaming thanks to the low screen resolution, It was very hard for me to choose this time galaxy s6 over z5 compact for the same reason, but i succumbed to the bigger better oled screen this time around even though i was upset at the senseless screen resolution of 1440 x 2560 which made it clear that the phone would struggle with current high end games to keep 60fps let alone future games...
Well after playing Dead Trigger 2 with all gfx on max surprise surprise, the phone could not keep up with its absurd screen resolution a steady 60fps so i started thinking if there was a proper screen res changer tool this time around as i was a bit familiar with some of them in the past which done a poor job and many times left the phone unusuable thx to the resolution affecting the OS itself aswell.
Well guess what, Samsung woke up and presented galaxy s6 owners (and some other high end galaxy models) with a very nice solution.
Its called Game Tuner, officially made by Samsung and you can find it here:
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.samsung.android.gametuner.thin&hl=pt_PT
What it does is exactly what all the games should have in the first place, options to choose resolution for your game without changing the resolution for your OS GUI, on top of that, you have a nice control panel profile system which allows you to setup different settings for different games installed in your phone, this apps benefits you with the following:
1)Lower graphics resolution for any games of your choosing,
2) It allows you to even force 3D games which are running at a lower resolution than your screen to actually run at highest resolution supported by your screen,
3)It also allows you to lock FPS to 30 instead of 60 if you would like to preserve some battery life.
4)Allows you some brightness control per game.
Here are the more confusing settings explained:
High (turns all games to the highest resolution of the phone screen) almost impossible to observe pixelization
Medium (turns all games to a tad lower res (i believe 1920*1080) difficult to observe pixelization
Low (turns all games to an even lower res( i believe 1270*720) pixelization visible but not too ugly
Extreme Low (turns all games to the lowest resolution possible (i believe 840*472) as i see alot of pixelization
Custom (Allows you to select each game with a specific profile (high, medium, low, extreme low).
Now you can fully enjoy that 2k screen without reprecussions!
Give it a try and have fun!
EDIT: If any questions feel free to ask and ill try to help as i can.

Wow, thanks for sharing. Works great. You can even specify the resolution, fps and brightness per game.
Verstuurd vanaf mijn SM-G920F met Tapatalk

NP, glad you like it, updated thread with more information and corrected some grammar issues.

You can already find this in the S6 themes and apps section. No need to post this here

Thanks, this is really cool. I wouldn't have seen it if you hadn't posted it here! I wish it would actually tell you what resolution each of the settings are. I tried taking a screenshot in game after I enabled it and then checking the "details" in gallery but it still said 2560*1440.
Now I'd like to know how I can completely disable it? It seems even after uninstall the settings remain. I'd like to now bypass the 60FPS limit.

lite426 said:
Thanks, this is really cool. I wouldn't have seen it if you hadn't posted it here! I wish it would actually tell you what resolution each of the settings are. I tried taking a screenshot in game after I enabled it and then checking the "details" in gallery but it still said 2560*1440.
Now I'd like to know how I can completely disable it? It seems even after uninstall the settings remain. I'd like to now bypass the 60FPS limit.
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The settings wont remain after uninstalling, i say this because i tried it myself by setting a game to lowest resolution possible and after uninstalling it rolled back to normal, many people believe that, without modding, all games will run by default on the highest resolution supported by your screen, this is a false assumption, and you can easelly notice that with games such as Asphalt 8 and Real Racing 3.
Indeed it should specify resolution instead of "very low, low, med, high," thats why the thread settings are nothing more but assumptions.
Also setting it to MED is considered the default setting for said game in this app so maybe med is actually the default app resolution.

crzykiller said:
You can already find this in the S6 themes and apps section. No need to post this here
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Well, i think it doesn't stress anybody, but the opposite: more users will know about it. It seems this app is not that popular, many users have no idea about it (i found it a couple of weeks ago by mistake in playstore).
The app should receive more coverage in media too. This will be a win-win situation for all, and maybe samsung will add a system-wide option for resolution change (yeah, keep dreaming)

I believe beying able to choose fullscreen resolution of your phone shouldve been a thing implemented by default, im Really happy that samsung thinked of this for my S6 as i can play games like dead effect 2 with extreme graphics but reduced resolution (almost imperceptible pixelization) and get a rock steady 60fps, the only strange thing it semms that it is happening is that after a level or two the game starts to loose performance, other users also reported this issue, samsung will hopefully fix it in the next app update.

TheWarKeeper said:
I believe beying able to choose fullscreen resolution of your phone shouldve been a thing implemented by default, im Really happy that samsung thinked of this for my S6 as i can play games like dead effect 2 with extreme graphics but reduced resolution (almost imperceptible pixelization) and get a rock steady 60fps, the only strange thing it semms that it is happening is that after a level or two the game starts to loose performance, other users also reported this issue, samsung will hopefully fix it in the next app update.
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I think you should also disable DVFS for optimal performance gains.

vnvman said:
I think you should also disable DVFS for optimal performance gains.
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Yes that would increase performance but its a heavy risk considering you might burn up ur cpu or gpu and void the warranty

TheWarKeeper said:
Yes that would increase performance but its a heavy risk considering you might burn up ur cpu or gpu and void the warranty
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I may be wrong but I assume unless you game all day long it shouldn't make too much of a difference in terms of lifespan (assuming one swaps phone every 2 years or so), pretty much like OC/OV.

vnvman said:
I may be wrong but I assume unless you game all day long it shouldn't make too much of a difference in terms of lifespan (assuming one swaps phone every 2 years or so), pretty much like OC/OV.
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Indeed OC reduces lifespan of said component but the problem is more serious than that, if you disable the throttle the GPU or CPU might overheat, it depends on the phone and the chips inside and also the heat dissipation quality which can range from different thermal pastes to different heatsinks and to where is that heat transfered after that, its a risk of hardware damage without knowing its internal chips temps.
But thats just me who knows maybe im wrong.

TheWarKeeper said:
Indeed OC reduces lifespan of said component but the problem is more serious than that, if you disable the throttle the GPU or CPU might overheat, it depends on the phone and the chips inside and also the heat dissipation quality which can range from different thermal pastes to different heatsinks and to where is that heat transfered after that, its a risk of hardware damage without knowing its internal chips temps.
But thats just me who knows maybe im wrong.
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Well that would totally make sense, but at least as to OC+slight OV it has been tested that the possibility of making some actual damage will most likely be very slim untill around the 5 year mark or so of usage. As to DVFS, by disabling that you don't actually disable throttling completely, which is still managed by the kernel (as it should), but only Samsung's more aggressive throttling which is completely unnecessary because it's always trying to keep the phone "super cool" at the expense of performance, while some people who are into heavy games would use a device hot to the point that it causes mild discomfort (but still safe for the components), rather than a device that is slightly cooler but gets laggy after 2 minutes of actual gameplay.
I guess it's up to the user to decide whether to mess with this or not, maybe for most people it won't be worth even the slight risks but for people like me who happen to enjoy heavy games and swap phones every year and a half or so it's good to have the option.

vnvman said:
Well that would totally make sense, but at least as to OC+slight OV it has been tested that the possibility of making some actual damage will most likely be very slim untill around the 5 year mark or so of usage. As to DVFS, by disabling that you don't actually disable throttling completely, which is still managed by the kernel (as it should), but only Samsung's more aggressive throttling which is completely unnecessary because it's always trying to keep the phone "super cool" at the expense of performance, while some people who are into heavy games would use a device hot to the point that it causes mild discomfort (but still safe for the components), rather than a device that is slightly cooler but gets laggy after 2 minutes of actual gameplay.
I guess it's up to the user to decide whether to mess with this or not, maybe for most people it won't be worth even the slight risks but for people like me who happen to enjoy heavy games and swap phones every year and a half or so it's good to have the option.
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I tought the DVFS disabled the throttle completely, its good to know it doesnt then and i agree, the samsung throttle is overreacting and prolly did better good with it off than on, thanks for your suggestion.

TheWarKeeper said:
Yes that would increase performance but its a heavy risk considering you might burn up ur cpu or gpu and void the warranty
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I play with Samsung DVFS always off and I can play dead effect for 2 hours straight without performance degradation... CPU doesn't go over 75-80*C depending on the ambient temperature