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With the release of Ice Cream comes the "merger" of the Android OS. One OS for both tablets and phones. But Google isn't quite that interested in tablets right now, it wants to work more at developing phones with it's acquired Motorola and partnership with Samsung. And with good reason.
Read More:
http://www.cnn.com/2011/10/20/tech/...ablets-wired/index.html?eref=mrss_igoogle_cnn
all speculation
I agree with rmxo it is all speculation, to be fair I can see how tablets are less lucrative than phones. People seem to think google is something more than a business.
Not that I wouldn't like to see ICS on the galaxy tab I suspect this awesome community will a get ics rom cooked before an official tab build gets released.
I actually think samsung should be on googles back regarding ics on the tab.
That's bull****. If Google didn't "care about tablets", they wouldn't have spent millions on Honeycomb development, risked alienating the user base by locking up source code, etc.
They care a great deal about tablets. They just weren't ready for tablets at the same time the manufacturers were ready to start making them.
There's a big difference.
the article's author's opinion is really biased imo...
so.. nah... if Google decides to do this which imo won't happen... they are pissing a lot of people off...
if google doesn't care about tablets... why bother making ICS 1280x720 as a default resolution?
Ridiculous. In terms of development, you focus on phones because it is a larger market, but failing to see the rise of the next big mass media device (tablets) is not the problem Google has here. They simply are saying, right now, we are focusing on bringing the tablet experience to phones. They are making development on both platforms more efficient with single dev on ICS. Tablets likely weren't talked big because really, ICS is HC for phones AND tablets. And although it brings more features that HC does not have, it is more or less HC at it's core experience.
Asus already announced the Transformer Prime and original transformer will have ICS by end of Dec.
LG G2x - 2.3.5 MIUI
Asus Transformer - 3.2 Revolver
Why did you post this here? It's pure speculation by one tech analyst, and has basically nothing to do with this forum.
Stupid article. Sometimes these tech writers have to make logic leaps to justify a story.
At first i thought it was curious that they didnt even mention tablets. Then it started to make sense.
1, this was a samsung and google event. It was supposed to highlight ICS and samsung's latest and greatest hardware. Showing a prototype Xoom would have taken away from samsung and you cant do that.
2, this was also google's opportunity to counter iOS 5. Sorta phone vs. phone. Ipad 3 is on the horizon and why would Google show their cards this early in the game. ICS is ready for tablets but I'm sure there will be a more advanced version released in a few months (around the time Ipad3 shows up) that will add new features.
I'm tired of "journalists" who write articles full of speculation and opinion and then arrive at some concrete 'conclusion' based on nothing but whatever thoughts flitted between their ears. Perhaps it's just me, but it seems like the vast majority of "technology journalists" are brain-dead iJobs fanboys looking to grind an axe and make Android as unattractive to the masses as they possibly can. It's like they're all part of some out-of-control confirmation bias machine, seeking to stroke each other's ego for their intelligence and good taste in selecting the latest iToy.
Unrelated: my wife who is deeply embedded in the Apple ecosystem was ready to throw her iPhone 4 against a wall last night when she realised that editing a contact record is disabled by default on iOS 5. Seriously, she had to dive into phone settings to enable the ability to add a phone number to an existing contact. WTF.
(please excuse my mini-rant, I have a cold and am medicating with a cocktail of OTC goodness)
Sent from my GT-P7510 using Tapatalk
what's a tablet?
What's a tablet? Is a 5" screen device a tablet? Like for example the galaxy note? Is the Nexus Prime a bit of a tablet? No, maybe? The Galaxy Note with it's 5"+ screen is definitely almost a tablet. It has a split screen design of the software when turning the device in landscape. So it is running definitely tablet like software.
The boundary between tablets and phones isn't clear cut. And in the future the boundary will become more vague. For Android that is. That's why they focused with ICS on a sort of OS that will run on both "tablets" and "phones". From that perspective one can say that tablets are equally well supported as phones.
Here's an interesting interview with Rubin http://allthingsd.com/20111019/andy-rubin-video-highlights-from-asiad-video/ In it Androids position on tablets is very clearly explained. They just want to make an OS that supports all screensizes. (Btw Rubin says they sold 6 million tablets.. that's like 100% more than what the CNN article says)
I don't necessarily agree with Rubin's position on this, but at least it is a interesting one Again, what's a tablet anyway for a mobile operating system? A phone with a big screen? (Without calling abilities)
The strategy seems that Google is leaving it to hardware manufacturers if they want to support tablets. The software is ready for it.
My only question with this strategy is if Google can trigger developers enough to make specific outstanding tablet software. They expect developers to target all screensizes. And with the new ICS this is possible and easy. So that's okay. Nevertheless, for a developer who only wants to target the tablet because his design only fits on a tablet this won't work. Either s/he has to make a poor small screen implementation of his software or s/he sticks to a tablet only version. But the last decision will only work if they make a clear cut separation on the Android market. But then they have to make a separation after all.....
Croak said:
They care a great deal about tablets. They just weren't ready for tablets at the same time the manufacturers were ready to start making them.
There's a big difference
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Click to collapse
I agree with this part...and that's why we ended up with betas
I think it would be cool if devs made apps that would scale up and have a tablet UI if the app is downloaded on a tablet and scale down and have a phone ui if its on a phone. Yeah it would be annoying to make 2 ui but its better than making 2 apps when trying to promote your app.
Sent from my Nexus S using xda premium
Serious_Beans said:
I think it would be cool if devs made apps that would scale up and have a tablet UI if the app is downloaded on a tablet and scale down and have a phone ui if its on a phone. Yeah it would be annoying to make 2 ui but its better than making 2 apps when trying to promote your app.
Sent from my Nexus S using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In my experience, most well written apps already scale quite well the way you want already. However, it's really up to the devs because some of them may want to make a bit more money by having two separate apps (a phone one and a tablet / HD one).
Serious_Beans said:
I think it would be cool if devs made apps that would scale up and have a tablet UI if the app is downloaded on a tablet and scale down and have a phone ui if its on a phone. Yeah it would be annoying to make 2 ui but its better than making 2 apps when trying to promote your app.
Sent from my Nexus S using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The question is if every tablet app can have a small screen counter app. One can't demand from developers that they (for example) design a great word processor for tablets and also create a mobile phone counterpart at once.
If the market won't have clear cut tablet sections in the future, I don't expect much tablets apps for the future. It's not worthwhile for a developer to invest in good tablet design if its app will be hidden in the market between the "scalable apps"
appelflap said:
The question is if every tablet app can have a small screen counter app. One can't demand from developers that they (for example) design a great word processor for tablets and also create a mobile phone counterpart at once.
If the market won't have clear cut tablet sections in the future, I don't expect much tablets apps for the future. It's not worthwhile for a developer to invest in good tablet design if its app will be hidden in the market between the "scalable apps"
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Click to collapse
True. That's why I like the way Apple has structured their market -- iPad only / iPhone only / iPad+iPhone (with that '+' sign to indicate such apps).
The new Android market does provide recommendations specifically for tablets though.
True. That's why I like the way Apple has structured their market -- iPad only / iPhone only / iPad+iPhone (with that '+' sign to indicate such apps).
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You see thats the **** part about apple strategy.
Why should I pay twice for the same app?
best example angry birds.
Its perfectly playable on android phones and tablets and most importantly we have it for free or 99p/$
on iDevices you pay for the same app twice just so it looks a little bit better on the iPad than iPhone.
If you think about it. If Apple releases new iPad with higher resolution all iBoys will have to buy the app again..
I think best example of how Android market (and apps) should be is by looking at apps like Flixter or IMDB
Ugh I should of never got this tab, I love android I really disapointed.
Sent from a amazing Ipad 2
MattSkeet said:
You see thats the **** part about apple strategy.
Why should I pay twice for the same app?
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Click to collapse
AFAIK, Apple leaves it up to the developer -- there are several apps which you can buy once and they will work on both the iPad and iPhone at the appropriate resolution for each device (the ones with the '+' sign indicated). However, there are developers who would rather make you buy two different versions instead.
So I don't know if it's fair to blame Apple (or Google) for separate tablet / phone apps. However, Google is to be blamed for not making it easy to determine which apps will function correctly on tablets (and quite a few don't).
---------- Post added at 01:43 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:41 PM ----------
iloveandroid16 said:
Ugh I should of never got this tab, I love android I really disapointed.
Sent from a amazing Ipad 2
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Click to collapse
Out of curiosity, what is it about Android that you love and is not present on the tablet?
Guys, as the 29th is approaching -- what are you thoughts on this upcoming battle. With the speculated display, processor/ram specs Nexus 10 (if it's real) looks to be as good if not better then Note 10.1 (minus S pen) --- I am tempted to return my Note 10.1 and wait for Nexus 10. It's Google/Samsung collaboration so updates will be straight from Google without wait and hopefully TouchWiz, multi-view, pop up video player etc features from Sammy - seems like a "Killer Device"
Thoughts..
tankjay said:
Guys, as the 29th is approaching -- what are you thoughts on this upcoming battle. With the speculated display, processor/ram specs Nexus 10 (if it's real) looks to be as good if not better then Note 10.1 (minus S pen) --- I am tempted to return my Note 10.1 and wait for Nexus 10. It's Google/Samsung collaboration so updates will be straight from Google without wait and hopefully TouchWiz, multi-view, pop up video player etc features from Sammy - seems like a "Killer Device"
Thoughts..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This was being discussed in the Note vs. TF700 thread. Here are my thoughts.
BarryH_GEG said:
Here's my prediction. It'll basically be a giant N7 with higher quality h/w components and better build quality. The SoC will either be the Exynos 5250, S4 Pro, or OMAP 5 assuming a launch next year. If it were launching this year there would already be supply chain leaks about the various third party components used in it or test device traces would have shown up in benchmarks. Exynos Quad can't support FHD so it won't be an existing Exynos chip (if it's Exynos). The 5250 just launched in the new Samsung Chromebook so that's a strong possibility. It'll most likely have NFC and 2GB of RAM also. Since Nexus devices are basically equipped with an app-less (other than Google Apps) bare OS here's the things it won't have.
- Multiview
- Pop up play
- S-Pen/S-Note
- AllShare Play and Cast
- Enhanced camera features (smile/face/blink detection, buddy shot)
- Mini apps
- Enhanced audio and video codec support
- IR port
- Dialer but HSPA data could be offered
- Browser h/w acceleration
The display I'm sure will be Samsung-sourced and gorgeous and whichever next-gen CPU/GPU it has it'll be fast as hell. A lot of folks don't like TouchWiz based on its appearance but it's more than just an overlay. There's lots of stuff Samsung integrates in to it along with a ton of non-standard performance enhancements and additional features. If I leave the Note it won't be for another bare-bones Android tablet with fewer features no matter what the speed and PPI are. It'll more likely be for a Note 10.1 II with a FHD display and 5250 SoC (if it ever comes to exist) or a W8 tablet. Most analysts that follow the mobile industry have declared high-end Android tablets dead at the hands of W8. It that comes to be then Google (rather than the manufacturers) will be the future sponsor of all high-end Android tablets. And Nexus devices may be great for their purity and frequency of updates but naked Android vs. the features and broader app compatibility in W8 are going to make $399+ Android tablets a pretty hard sell.
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In addition, here's an article from today talking about Google's Nexus push.
More Nexus devices don’t necessarily mean more sales and more control over Android for Google.
It’s not clear how a larger Nexus tablet would succeed where other Android tablets have failed, unless you believe mainstream consumers pay close attention to pixel density or other minute tech specs. Google Play has a smaller movie and music selection than Amazon Instant Video (as Laptop Mag noted in a recent comparison) and doesn’t have as many proper tablet apps as Apple’s iPad. In lieu of sheer quantity, Google will need to show some amazing content of its own or knock it out the park on pricing with its tablets.
As for smartphones, the big question is whether Google will cater to wireless carriers, whose subsidies are what allow phones to sell for under $200 in the United States. (They’re also the reason you agree to a two-year contract when you buy a new phone.) Verizon and Sprint did subsidize the Galaxy Nexus, but the arrangement wasn’t ideal as customers still had to wait months for software upgrades. If Google goes it alone and sells unlocked phones without subsidies, it’ll still need a retail partner to provide hands-on time, along with some serious marketing to explain why an unlocked Nexus phone is worth getting.
All of which is to say that next week’s press event will be a lot of fun to watch. And even if you’re not obsessed with the tech industry’s twists and turns, at least there’ll be some cool hardware.
http://techland.time.com/2012/10/23/googles-big-nexus-event-whats-at-stake/
Nice write up, thanks for sharing..
Here's what I've gotta have:
- Multiview
- Pop up play
- S-Pen/S-Note (may be)
- AllShare Play and Cast
- Mini apps
- Enhanced audio and video codec support
- IR port (may be)
- Browser h/w acceleration
Main point for me is if the Nexus 10 doesn't move forward towards multitasking, it's almost a no-go for me..
For me, no pen = no sale.
Haven't used the spen a lot, I'm also a fan of vanilla Android so I guess I'll be getting the nexus 10 , gotta see it first tho
Sent from my GT-N8013 using xda app-developers app
Been using a pen since the Motion Computing M1400 (now LE1700 w/SXGA+). No reason to stop now. Love the Note 10.1. Give us Super AMOLED+! Keep on writing!
It is just like comparing nexus with note 2
Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2
Well its a nexus device so it will run stock android and so most likely won't have touchwiz and if it doesn't have touchwiz doubt it will have any of the great features that come with it from samsung. I personally think it will just be a big Nexus 7 with a GREAT screen, so still a good device but I think it won't have any of the productivity pros as the Note 10.1.
I see it like most others here: no spending, not interesting.
And there is no way the nexus will have an spen.
The spen in combination with the Multiscreen functionality are amazing. It regularly makes me think about how much fun university would have been had I had it in those days.
Well I've owned my Note for exactly 24 hours now. I was the one that brought up the subject in the other thread. I figured I'd buy the Note now and if the Google announcement blew me away I could just return it. Still not 100% sure what I'll do.
But I think those that say it will be pure vanilla Android are correct. So unless Google slipped multitasking into 4.2 without anyone getting a sniff of it, I doubt you'll see anything special.
The big draw sounds like it's going to be the display. That's compelling, no doubt. But i'm not sure it makes much difference to us old guys with poor eyesight.
The big draw of the Note for me was the 2Gb of RAM. It's possible the Nexus 10 will come that way, but doubtful. But if it does and they bring in a 32GB model for under $400 I still might switch*. But I didn't think that would be the case so I picked up the Note now.
*Release date is also important to me for other reasons that probably aren't a consideration for others.
I am on a dicey situation - my 30 day's end on 28th and this conference is on 29th - should I return it and see what comes out of the conference and if it's not compiling re-buy the Note or just keep the Note and let it release and see how it actually feels before parting way with Note
Tough call.. will be doing some research in the next few days
tankjay said:
I am on a dicey situation - my 30 day's end on 28th and this conference is on 29th - should I return it and see what comes out of the conference and if it's not compiling re-buy the Note or just keep the Note and let it release and see how it actually feels before parting way with Note
Tough call.. will be doing some research in the next few days
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There were a ton of leaks before the SGS3 and Note II were released on the Samsung side with pics and OS screen shots. On the Google side there were leaks for the N7 and Nexus 4 also with pics and OS screen shots. The fact that there's only been one editorial leak for the "Manta/N10" that's been repeated everywhere leaves me to believe it might be announced on the 29th but the release isn't around the corner. No harm in returning your Note and re-buying it after the announcement just in case.
toenail_flicker said:
For me, no pen = no sale.
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Click to collapse
+1 for me. Without the pen, I would've considered an iPad and a pressure sensitive bluetooth stylus. But, most likely would not buy a tablet at all.
This mentality of returning stuff for no real reason other than one feels like it, is the epitome of wastefulness for me. I find it so odd. I could never do that.
It makes me more aware of the fact I need to keep my eyes open more for refurbished products whenever I pass through the US.
Oh well...
makanimike said:
This mentality of returning stuff for no real reason other than one feels like it, is the epitome of wastefulness for me. I find it so odd. I could never do that.
It makes me more aware of the fact I need to keep my eyes open more for refurbished products whenever I pass through the US.
Oh well...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Budget? For me at least, that is a VERY compelling reason right now, and reasons dont always mean as much to one person as it does to others, vice versa, but yeah, there should be some sort of time frame, a reasonable one.............in cases like a defective unit, with promised support and fixes that may or may not come, that has you waiting months, i dont think a measly 32 days is aceptable standard,* the lower the number the less likely of a return, theres only one party there that stands most to benefit................ but i digress
makanimike said:
This mentality of returning stuff for no real reason other than one feels like it, is the epitome of wastefulness for me. I find it so odd. I could never do that.
It makes me more aware of the fact I need to keep my eyes open more for refurbished products whenever I pass through the US.
Oh well...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In the case of Best Buy, the retailer provides this very option as enticement and reward for bringing your business to them. You can be certain that the cost of processing such returns in fully included in their overall business model. Knowing that the store allows you to "try out" a piece of expensive gear before "committing" to it most likely has been determined to increase sales. In short, Best Buy wouldn't have created this program in the first place, and then expanded it in subsequent years (e.g, "Silver Premier") if it didn't make business sense. They're not doing it to be "nice guys". They're doing it to secure larger market share and benefit their bottom line.
With that very policy in mind, I find myself more willing to plunk down my money sooner in the shopping cycle, knowing that there is far less risk of being disappointed and "stuck" with something I don't like. I've gone from being indifferent to Best Buy, to viewing them as a preferred retailer, especially as they are quite willing to engage in price matching as well. The "mentality" (as your describe it) is that my anxiety about purchases of not-yet-proven technology is relieved, and Best Buy gets my business sooner and more frequently.
So...both parties to this retail arrangement (consumer and retailer), benefit, and both agree to conduct business on this basis.
Why, then, should the consumer feel guilty about exercising his/her option to return a piece of merchandise that disappoints - for whatever reason, even if it were something as trivial as the color clashing with the curtains in my office? It's not a matter of taking advantage of the arrangement - merely exercising one of the options that the retailer offers as terms of the sale. In the end, I will be a far more loyal Best Buy customer because they value my satisfaction. They benefit - and I do too.
BTW: Out of all the years I've purchased products from Best Buy, I've spent many thousands of dollars there (business and personal), and only returned two products.
Also: when a returned product is resold - it is done as an "open box" item, with a commensurate discount. You don't have to suspect that every item you buy in the US may have been touched by another consumer before you get it. Those who knowingly buy "open box" items often delight in the great bargain that they've found....and once again, this is built into Best Buy's business model. In short - all parties benefit.
Here's Best Buy's own description of the "Silver Premier" benefit that relates to this:
MORE Time. We want you to ensure you love every purchase. So contact the Helpline for help with setup. Or, get a recommendation on an exchange that better fits your needs. Best of all, you have plenty of time to decide with a 60-day return, exchange and price-match policy on Best Buy and BestBuy.com purchases.
As far as I'm concerned, this is a win-win situation for all parties.
BarryH_GEG said:
There were a ton of leaks before the SGS3 and Note II were released on the Samsung side with pics and OS screen shots. On the Google side there were leaks for the N7 and Nexus 4 also with pics and OS screen shots. The fact that there's only been one editorial leak for the "Manta/N10" that's been repeated everywhere leaves me to believe it might be announced on the 29th but the release isn't around the corner. No harm in returning your Note and re-buying it after the announcement just in case.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, I know - that is why I will be researching as much as I can (hard for me to part ways with my Note for even a day without a HUGE reason )
I fully agree with this jonstrong's post- I once asked Costco that why don't you guys sell iPad and they said "wel,l because Apple doesn't like our return policies" - so if the company has issues with it they might as well keep it from Stores with basic (or more then basic in Costco's case) "return policies"
tankjay said:
I fully agree with this jonstrong's post- I once asked Costco that why don't you guys sell iPad and they said "wel,l because Apple doesn't like our return policies" - so if the company has issues with it they might as well keep it from Stores with basic (or more then basic in Costco's case) "return policies"
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Click to collapse
Yup - Costco is another great example of shopper protection -- and they have one of the most loyal customer groups in the entire industry as a result. Costco customers know that they are never at risk for "getting stuck" with a disappointing purchase.
I seriously thought about it. I'm still well within my 30-day return window. However, I realized that the one reason I dismissed the Nexus 7 isn't likely to change: the lack of expandable memory.
I sometimes thing that by introducing updates to the OS so fast is Google doing the right thing.
Before you all start hitting at me please go through these two scenarios
An OS update every year which ensures that there are major changes and upgrade to the OS which will mean devices will have a better chances of getting upgrades as then the developement cost for customization of a device will be once a year
An OS update every three to six months which ensure most of the device are either not updated or when the update is about to be released the new update is already out the perfect scenario is 4 to 4,1 to 4.1.1 to 4.2 LG is still to release update for ICS for some devices, Samsung is still to release update of JB to most of its device and we have an update to JB whats worst is now we are looking upgrade to 4.2.
Every cell phone or table OEM using Android does its own customization to the OS and then there are some locked phones in the US so for them to release a new version they need to customize it first which will have a cost involved and now with these recent sprint of updates by google I am sure most of our device will not go beyond JB some have not even gone beyond GB yet because at the end of the day these companies are here to make profit and if they end up spending more on developement then what they have earned then naturaly they will not do it.
So I feel this should rationalized to make sure the existing owners do not suffer because of this flawed update policy of Google devices
Google OS updates are a total mess. I like how apple do it.
Sent from my GT-N8010 using xda premium
Agreed with you the updates are making life of existing owners misreble hell I cannot afford to upgrade my cell every six months or even a year and a tablet for a couple of years because I am from India do not earn that much and secondly we have to buy outright no contracts so for me this is worst thing to happen My LG optimus 2x is still not being updated to ICS and ICS is already obsolute
samir_a said:
Agreed with you the updates are making life of existing owners misreble hell I cannot afford to upgrade my cell every six months or even a year and a tablet for a couple of years because I am from India do not earn that much and secondly we have to buy outright no contracts so for me this is worst thing to happen My LG optimus 2x is still not being updated to ICS and ICS is already obsolute
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You are right, even there are Samsung tablets in some regions haven't got ics and now Google is releasing 4.2, I have abad feeling from my experience with Samsung tablets that we are not going to get any updates after jellybean
Sent from my X10S using xda app-developers app
To be frank you cannot blame Samsung or for that matter any other manufacturer because these devices are highly customized and for every new version they have do develope the ROM which involves cost naturally even if you are in business you will not spend on developement when the revenue generated from it is surpased by cost of developement
The answer is yes. Stalling leads to less innovation. Besides, the next Jellybean update is not a huge one. This is why I will get a Nexus Phone, because of the updates. As for tha tablet, I can live a little while not having the latest OS.
Google's release planning outwardly looks like it’s being run by a bunch of kids. "Ooh, ooh, we should change how screen orientation works, let's push it out!" There is absolutely no reason they should be pushing out major updates more than twice a year with once a year being ideal. Minor maintenance updates that don’t affect things the manufacturers have written should be pushed out quarterly. The way updates normally work you need to spend as much time considering the impact to your installed base as you do to newer devices. With a set release schedule all those involved know if you want something changed or improved you've got to have it blessed and ready by the revision date. If not, you wait for the next. It's clear they could care less about their installed base. And Nexus devices aren't the answer as they represent less than 5% of Android phones sold. The fragmentation this creates helps no one - customers, manufacturers, app developers, and resellers. And if people have to buy new phones to keep up with the latest Google OS they'll get tired of it eventually and the next new phone they buy could be W8 or iOS. We're Android fans and are loyal. The general populous less so.
This is absolutely unforgivable and is going to come back and bite Google in the ass no matter how many Nexi they create.
With the exception of ^^ Jonphinguyen7, you guys have it completely wrong.
If you prefer Apple, go to Apple, have "fun" but Google keeps up with all updates just like Apple.
We have Android devices [by Samsung, HTC, Motorola, etc].
You want the real Google experience, get a Google device [Nexus].
Updates are NOT that fast either.
Android 3.x Honeycomb -- Feb 2011
Android 4.0.x Ice Cream Sandwich -- Oct 2011
Android 4.1.x Jelly Bean -- July 2012
Blame the lack of updates on the manufacturer.
That's what we get into when we decide to go with a Galaxy Device... i thought everyone knew.
HG! said:
With the exception of ^^ Jonphinguyen7, you guys have it completely wrong.
If you prefer Apple, go to Apple, have "fun" but Google keeps up with all updates just like Apple.
We have Android devices [by Samsung, HTC, Motorola, etc].
You want the real Google experience, get a Google device [Nexus].
Updates are NOT that fast either.
Android 3.x Honeycomb -- Feb 2011
Android 4.0.x Ice Cream Sandwich -- Oct 2011
Android 4.1.x Jelly Bean -- July 2012
Blame the lack of updates on the manufacturer.
That's what we get into when we decide to go with a Galaxy Device... i thought everyone knew.
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Click to collapse
You're missing the point completely by assuming your attitude is shared by the majority of phone buyers. Android can't succeed without carrier and manufacturer support. Even Nexus phones on VZW, the biggest carrier in the U.S. and one of the top five in the world, are a train wreck because they use CDMA. Carrier networks while theoretically based on the same technology all have different tweaks that require changes in the radio settings. A generic Nexus device, even on GSM, has problems on certain networks which is why the carrier-sold GN's come in so many different versions. And those carrier GN’s don’t receive updates when Google pushes them out creating the same update frustration for their owners that we’re discussing for the Note.
With 90% of phones sold in the U.S. kept an average of 15 months and subsidized by carriers there is nothing Google can do with its Nexus line that is going to influence the mainstream phone buyer. In market research that's been done those same people also like the features that TouchWiz and Sense provide which is why Samsung and HTC spend so much time and money on their UIs. Enthusiasts like us make up 5% of phone buyers. If Google captures 100% of us and 10% of the rest it's a major fail and a great opportunity for iOS and W8. Google's the "tail," not the "dog" and with Samsung, HTC, Nokia, and Huawei jumping on the W8 band wagon so quickly and heavily you have to ask yourself “why?”
Google's lack of attention to the partners it needs for Android to succeed (carriers, manufacturers) and customers using their OS can't end well when there are viable alternatives like iOS and W8 available from competitors with resources as ample as Google's. The mobile race is in its infancy and anyone can still win and Google needs friends more than they need Key Lime Pie.
This is what Nexus looks like behind the scenes...
Well said also we need to remember Google Nexus devices are again built in partnership unlike Iphone which means they a dependent of someone for the hardware something I find strange and again show how missmanged things are at google is they own motorola but they are not building their flagship nexus devices instead samsung and lg are doing which makes no business sense as it tells that google does not have confidence that moto can build nexus devices if that is the case then why did they buy it. Google needs to understand updates are great but they are useless if they cannot reach majority of their customer base.
HG! said:
With the exception of ^^ Jonphinguyen7, you guys have it completely wrong.
If you prefer Apple, go to Apple, have "fun" but Google keeps up with all updates just like Apple.
We have Android devices [by Samsung, HTC, Motorola, etc].
You want the real Google experience, get a Google device [Nexus].
Updates are NOT that fast either.
Android 3.x Honeycomb -- Feb 2011
Android 4.0.x Ice Cream Sandwich -- Oct 2011
Android 4.1.x Jelly Bean -- July 2012
Blame the lack of updates on the manufacturer.
That's what we get into when we decide to go with a Galaxy Device... i thought everyone knew.
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What you are describing is people who are using unlcoked/unsubsidized GN phones and their numbers are really small compared to the rest of the Android owners. As Barry pointed out, GN phones that are sold by the carriers are not any different when it comes to receiving updates. With this perspective, the people who are enjoying the "real Google experience", which brings frequent updates, is a tiny fraction of their target market, and releasing major updates so often only frustrates both manufacturers and the carriers (at least in the US), not to mention the owners of Android phones/tablets. Just take a look at any carrier-specific forums few days after the release of Android updates and see the slurry of angry comments asking for "where's my update? I'm never buying a Samsung phone/tablet again, etc, etc".
Keep in mind that the relationship between Samsung, HTC, LG, etc. with Google has been based on a "well, there's no other alternative to iOS in the mobile world" argument. Nokia has recently released Windows phones that were received very well as an alternative but couldn't capture significant market share partly due to OS limitations and the "novelty factor". Samsung and HTC had Windows phones before, but none of them were any major players compared to Android or iOS. I don't remember seeing a single commercial touting any Windows phones with the exception of Nokia's recent offerings. Based on what's been published over the years, Google's treatment of this relationship and the fragmentation that it generates with every release have not been received very well by the manufacturers. Like it or not, W8 is designed with mobile platforms in mind first, followed by desktop computing.
As pointed out, the manufacturers of Android devices are not only making W8 tablets, but also many W8 phones, now. Since many people in the US are more familiar with Samsung, HTC and LG, compared to Nokia or Sony Ericsson, the availability of W8 phones will most likely take people away from prospective Android buyers rather than Apple customers. The part of the success of Apple is the unity, integrity and the similarities between MacOS and iOS. In a perfect world, I wouldn't mind using W8 on my desktop, laptop (via bootcamp), tablet and phone (if this happens, I'll be buying a small Android tablet; I'm nostalgic). This is what MS is hoping/planning for, and we'll see how well that could be executed over the next 3-6 months.
If W8 tablets/phones don't generate enough excitement, then we're stuck with Android and Google's further fragmentation. Luckily, Samsung adds a lot more on top of the "plain" Android to keep us happy. I've used my son's Nexus 7 for about a month now, and every single time, I find myself looking for certain components of the TW interface that I'm accustomed to from my Note 10.1. Therefore, I don't see myself buying any Nexus device in the future, but I hope they do well. If the analysts are correct, then Google may be the only manufacturer of high-end Android tablets in the future.
tenderidol said:
people who are enjoying the "real Google experience", which brings frequent updates, is a tiny fraction of their target market.
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And let's be honest. The "real Google experience" is a pretty basic OS tied to Google Apps, Google Music, Google Books, Google TV & Movies, and other things Google wants people to buy. Phones with overlays that integrate features and make them easier to use together are more appealing to the mainstream than having to go out to Play Store and figure out which of the dozens of different alternatives available for a specific chore is going to do what they want it to do. And out of a dozen similar apps 2/3 can be total crap and built in someone's garage. Camry's and Accord's are probably about as commoditized a car as any on the market. Yet they are consistently best sellers. The majority of phone buyers like car buyers aren't looking for a do-it-yourself project. They want something reliable, that's low maintenance, and that they know is going to work and hold up over time. And they are the ones that are going to decide whether Android, W8, or iOS is the best and most prevalent mobile OS.
And Google’s hardware division, Motorola, sending a "f-you” message to their customers by reneging on their commitment to move 2011 high-end devices to JB in violation of the Google-sponsored Open Handset Alliance’s covenants speaks volumes about what’s important to Google. If they keep putting unattainable functionality ahead of their existing customer’s experiences they are going to drive people away.
You all seem to be mistaken on what is the main question at hand. No, Google is not updating too fast, as pointed out with some dates from another poster. The reason it takes too long or never happens (our updates) is because of all the bloat and custom software put into it by manufacturers and OEM's. The "Google Experience" isn't just the main Google apps, it's the OS at it's purest, with no additional features added by manufacturers. Lastly, if you watched the Google I/O you will remember the Google Rep saying that they will be giving update source code to manufacturers six month in advance now, so that they can add all their junk onto it for (hopefully) timely updates.
^OS at its purest requires you to download a lot of 'junk' from playstore to even do basic tasks. Some of the manufacturer customization are useful.
I saw this article on CNN, I tought it might interest some people here.
Source: http://edition.cnn.com/2013/02/18/tech/gaming-gadgets/samsung-apple-innovation/
(CNN) -- There's no arguing that Apple set the standard for modern mobile devices with the iPhone and the iPad. It didn't take long after those two products launched for competitors to rush out their own copycat devices.
Even then, it took another few years before Android was good enough to go toe to toe with iOS, Apple's mobile operating system.
But it's no longer about being just as good as Apple. You have to be better. Competitors have built upon the foundation Apple laid in mobile and are now leapfrogging it with bunch of useful features you can't find on iPhones and iPads.
The evidence is everywhere, but it's most apparent in products made by Apple's biggest mobile rival, Samsung.
By now, Samsung's Galaxy devices have become synonymous with Android, to the point that the manufacturer has more brand recognition than any other phone or tablet running Google's operating system. A lot of that has to do with Samsung's massive marketing budget, but you can't ignore the fact that the company has innovated a lot by creating popular new product categories that Apple is wary to try.
The best example of this is the Galaxy Note, a smartphone-tablet hybrid with a giant screen. When that device first hit the United States about a year ago, critics (including me) slammed the device for being too large. It couldn't fit comfortably in your pocket. It was really thick. And it came with a stylus, that relic of the Palm Pilot era, making the Note feel like a step backward.
None of that mattered. Samsung sold at least 10 million Galaxy Notes. The company came out with an updated version with an even larger screen called the Galaxy Note II a few months later and sold another 5 million (at last count), a very big achievement for a single Android device.
But more importantly, Samsung created a new category of smartphone that people didn't even know they wanted, much like Apple did when it released the first iPhone.
Samsung isn't afraid to tout its cool factor either. Since the first commercial debuted in late 2011, you've probably seen those "Next Big Thing" ads that make fun of starry-eyed Apple fans waiting in line for the next iPhone. Whether it's boasting about the bigger screens or sharing content by tapping phones together, Samsung seems content to blast Apple for its stuffiness while showing in a practical context what its devices can do.
On the software side of things, Samsung is taking advantage of its mobile devices' processing power to layer premium features on top of Android, such as the ability to run two apps at once in a split screen or separate window. Samsung's best tablet, the Galaxy Note 10.1, can do all that plus take advantage of a stylus so you can draw and take notes on the screen.
There is a downside to the split-screen thing, however. Developers have to tweak their apps to work in split-screen mode on the Note 10.1. There are only about 20 apps right now that can do it.
But what's most important is how nimble Samsung has become at improving its mobile devices through software updates. The Note 10.1 launched last fall, but it received a software update with a new version of Android and a slew of other features like the voice assistant Google Now, which is a lot more impressive than Apple's original Siri.
Samsung's director of product planning, Shoneel Kolhatkar, said the company takes user and reviewer feedback into account when preparing to deliver new software updates. Instead of making users wait a year for new features, Kolhatkar said Samsung can use that feedback to deliver "incremental innovation that keeps the product alive."
"We want to keep the product relevant to consumers," Kolhatkar said. "It's about how to fit our devices into people's lives versus changing their behavior."
Samsung isn't alone, of course. Microsoft's new Windows 8 operating system is built for touchscreen devices like tablets, too, and it offers a lot of advantages over iOS. All Windows 8 apps can run in a split screen so you can run two at once, plus the main menu is capable of displaying real-time updates for stuff like news and weather. Microsoft even has its own line of Surface tablets that blur the line between PC and laptop thanks to a clever snap-on keyboard cover.
Based on all this evidence, Apple feels behind. Take a look at its newest fourth-generation iPad. It has a killer processor and other great hardware features, but the operating system doesn't take advantage of any of that. The home screen is still just a grid of static icons that launch apps.
Apple also isn't nearly as versatile at adding new software features to its devices. Apple usually makes users wait a year or more for a new version of iOS, and even then some older devices can't access all the latest and greatest features.
Apple CEO Tim Cook likes to say tablets -- not laptops -- are the future of computing, yet it feels like Apple's software goes out of its way to limit what you can do on the machine.
Meanwhile there are others, especially Samsung, that appear to be innovating at a pace faster than Apple can.
The opinions expressed in this commentary are solely those of Steve Kovach.
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Tim Cook is wrong, the future of computing is... SMARTPHONES!
Good Find. Apple has been stuck on its original mentality and although it innovated a huge field, they have definitely stagnated
Re: How Samsung is out-innovating Apple
Apple? Sounds familiar is that the company that made that funny square phone with non movable icons back in 1999 ??
Re: How Samsung is out-innovating Apple
Yeah, the company that makes phones for senior citizens.
Far from being an Apple fan, I think we should be grateful to them. The first iphone really woke up the smartphone industry by giving them a kick in the butt. Without the first iphone maybe we wouldn't have our awesome SGS3.
Kremata said:
Far from being an Apple fan, I think we should be grateful to them. The first iphone really woke up the smartphone industry by giving them a kick in the butt. Without the first iphone maybe we wouldn't have our awesome SGS3.
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Well put. They do innovate. But then Samsung takes over and kills them at their own game. Some prime examples are TV's, home appliances and memory chips.
jinosong said:
Well put. They do innovate. But then Samsung takes over and kills them at their own game. Some prime examples are TV's, home appliances and memory chips.
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Memory chips? Apple never made memory chips. Actually (funny fact) even today they still use Samsung memory chips. Latest news was they were looking for another supplier. And I never seen an Apple TV or DVD player.
Kremata said:
Memory chips? Apple never made memory chips. Actually (funny fact) even today they still use Samsung memory chips. Latest news was they were looking for another supplier. And I never seen an Apple TV or DVD player.
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I was merely mentioning that Samsung takes hold of other companies' innovations and perfect them to become the industry leader in their respective markets.
jinosong said:
I was merely mentioning that Samsung takes hold of other companies' innovations and perfect them to become the industry leader in their respective markets.
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Interesting that a while ago most people thought that about Apple.
Apple is stagnant, hopefully Samsung will not. A great catalyst of innovation is the open nature of Android and the heavy competition.
drakester09 said:
Interesting that a while ago most people thought that about Apple.
Apple is stagnant, hopefully Samsung will not. A great catalyst of innovation is the open nature of Android and the heavy competition.
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Personally I'm a fan of Android but not necessarily Samsung. Now I'm with Samsung because they have the most powerful phone but if later on HTC or other come up with a better one I will go with them. Frankly I hate Samsung's interface. I find the green toggles and the grey sms box so ugly. But I love S-Voice. I hope they will improve their UI in the future. In the mean time I will keep flashing ROM to my liking.
A year ago I was Happy and amazed by my new Galaxy Note 2, S-Pen, split screen multitasking, etc by far the most advanced phone on the earth.
Then things never been so happy, while S-Pen still one of the most useful features exclusives to the Note series, other features lacked same shine :
Split Screen Multitasking: just few apps support it, most due restriction on the device (requiring to root it to enable apps that actually works on SSMT but lack the manifest), other features as the Note taking related, calendar and Contact address book tries to go away from Google (I'm not aware samsung using its own contact service until I moved to another android and advert no new contact on Google since I on the note 2).
Note apps also are not intended to sync with Google notes neither Google Keep, leaving me with another propertary platform hostile to Apple and other Android device regarding data user sharing.
Same with the integrated Web browser, samsung moved away chrome, leaving my bookmarks on my desktop orphan.
OK many things that can be solved thru 3d parte solutions most free, other just need a few research, others simple had no solution (migrate s-notes to keep).
Btw Samsung insist to kidnap Android personality with its infamous TouchWiz, real crapware most experienced users swap for lightest launchers, dismiss some features (as the smart pages) are good ideas, nothing like personalize your way your device. But here they is also a little hostility from Samsung because some widgets aren't available to other launchers compromising the freedom to personalize if you hate crapwiz you can change it by a price... But why samsung don't like you to change crapwiz? Maybe they want to offer you other os with same interface w/o being you aware not an android.
And then comes the update nightmare, seems evudent samsung bets high on device obsolescence, delaying updates or deny to some devices (as was the Galaxy S1 denied upgrade to ICS, while the Nexus one - same hw chip by chip- was updated by Google to ICS). It's a year from Android 4.1.2 and we still stuck, and seems better ti stay on 4.1.2 given some nightmares from bugs upgrading).
Sammy use to sell good the best hardware nowadays, but they compromise seems with the account department not the user community, notwithstanding the warranty this warranty is only on defects not on compromise with the user, far far away the Apple experience - another I hate on different reasoning- on Apple a 2yr old is updated to the last os ASAP it's released and sharing data with platforms like Google notes and contacts is transparent to the user, and while Apple also bid high on device obsolescence, they just don't ditch you ASAP the warranty is dead.
And finally don't worth to upgrade, Knox it's an mess more than a guard, and samsung discovered how you can hate they more: kidnapping your device property disabling activation across markets, trying to keep away the gray market that allow cheaper unlocked device across the world (also 4G bands are kidnapped, the radios are capable for 9 4G bands but the firmware only enable sets of its to reduce market compatibility, forcing you ti purchase devices in your market and forgiving you travel).
I Considered to upgrade to a Note 3,but has no case the note 3 may receive android 4.4 Kitsap on April, another update may be delayed until note 4 market presence is enough to dismiss giving another day to the (still young) note 3.
Bye bye Sammy, Sony or LG will provide me my next Android.
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My second happy moment with my note w will be the day I bought another android not from Samsung.
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samsung just doing business.what can we do ~
if you hang around you will see when many experts have adopted a defeatist attitude, there will be many who will learn to survive the new policies AND have a good time...
turning your back and fleeing is not the right decision
Well, go buy a Nexus 5 instead of ranting. Great performance/price ratio, plus you get pure Google experience + timely updates. I recommend it to everyone.
Still, I'll keep my Note 2.
Touchwiz is not that bad. I tried several alternative launchers and always came back to stock.
For note taking, I found no replacement for S-Note stylus double-tap popup. Google Keep has zero stylus support (even though a standard Android API exists) so it's out of the game (I still use it for checklists). I also use Papyrus, which is a fantastic "virtual paper" app but it lacks a quick note shortcut like S-Note.
Just to say that when I got my phone (my last one was a Nexus One), I was like "let's remove all that crap" but after a bit of time and a few tweaks I started liking it.
Plus Samsung is one of the last major manufacturers to make user replaceable batteries.
I'm not saying that Samsung is perfect, far from it. In my case I feel like I have no choice : no manufacturer have made something that matched the Note family of phones, except maybe Sony with the Xperia Z Ultra.
Samsh*t only thinks about it's money.No end-user support at all.
I am totally agree with you and plus sds cheap material etc. I am thinking about nexus next year, the only problem I have is the small and non removable battery. Merry Christmas mates.
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