I love this tablet except I didn't realize it is running 32-bit win8.1 which sucks. Anyone know if there is a way I can get Win 8.1 64-bit on it?
redfusion87 said:
I love this tablet except I didn't realize it is running 32-bit win8.1 which sucks. Anyone know if there is a way I can get Win 8.1 64-bit on it?
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Why do you think 32 bit sucks?
mustbepbs said:
Why do you think 32 bit sucks?
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Maybe he needs features that are supported on 64 bit systems.
OP, technically speaking, intel atom supports 64 bit architecture, however, since you only have 2 GB of RAM, performance will be severely crippled.
There is no point in using a 64 bit system with less than 4 GB of RAM.
That's not entirely true. First of all, "severely crippled" is quite an overstatement; you'll lose a few percent CPU efficiency while executing 32-bit programs, and cache coherency will suffer a bit, but the impact is barely noticeable and has nothing to do with RAM size (that is, you'll take the same hit for running 32-bit code on a 64-bit OS whether you have 2GB or 20GB). Program binaries (64-bit ones, that is) are usually larger, which consumes both more storage and more RAM once they're loaded, but they also get to use the extra registers and instructions (including native 64-bit integer math) that are available to 64-bit-aware programs, which can actually make them more efficient than their 32-bit counterparts in some cases. In other cases, they will be very slightly slower (largely due to cache coherency loss from the large pointer values) but the difference is pretty small.
Then, there's security. 64-bit programs can use high-entropy ASLR, which makes ASLR *vastly* more effective (32-bit OSes typically use only 8 or 12 bits of entropy for ASLR, which is good but still permits brute-forcing on repeatable attacks, and the occasional lucky hit in any case; HE-ASLR uses enough entropy that you could exploit every PC on the planet and still have a fair chance of missing every time). 32-bit programs have such small heaps that a heap-spraying attack (writing a NOP-sled into the payload instructions, so that if you pivot the instruction pointer onto the heap you will "slide down" to the payload) is practical, typically taking less than a second; on a 64-bit process, even if you could commit enough virtual memory (you can't; no existing PC can) it would take *years* to spray it all.
Finally, a nitpick about setting the threshold at 4GB for where 64-bit is needed instead of 32-bit. Video memory is typically mapped into the kernel address space, as are the I/O buffers for other drivers. In the old days, this was no big deal; a PC could easily afford to give up even a gig or so of kernel address space (assuming you weren't trying to assign more than 2GB to user-mode per-process allocation) and as long as you didn't have more than 3GB of physical memory, the memory manager could still address the rest of it. These days, even cheapo GPUs sometimes have more memory than that, and even a merely decent graphics card will have so much VRAM that a 32-bit system couldn't address all of it using the default 2GB user / 2GB kernel split. This isn't really a problem for embedded graphics, but anybody using 32-bit with a modern discrete GPU is nuts.
redfusion87 said:
I love this tablet except I didn't realize it is running 32-bit win8.1 which sucks. Anyone know if there is a way I can get Win 8.1 64-bit on it?
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Yes, however DELL has not released any 64-bit drivers for the touchscreen or any other component. You would need to install this with the device connected to a powered USB hub connected to a keyboard and mouse with a optical drive/flash drive with a bootable installation. Remember the touchscreen will not work during the installation process. Migrating to 64-bit on THIS particular tablet isn't worth the stress that you seek in my opinion. I went this route by turning off secure boot in the BIOS, but after doing a clean install, I found it wasn't worth it other than being able to use the "full" 32GB without the recovery partition and other junk. You will have to do a Windows update to get the generic drivers. Windows will load the integrated graphics and the WiFi natively, but it still isn't worth the hassle. Luckily, I had created a recovery flash drive and restored from that.
GoodDayToDie said:
That's not entirely true. First of all, "severely crippled" is quite an overstatement; you'll lose a few percent CPU efficiency while executing 32-bit programs, and cache coherency will suffer a bit, but the impact is barely noticeable and has nothing to do with RAM size (that is, you'll take the same hit for running 32-bit code on a 64-bit OS whether you have 2GB or 20GB). Program binaries (64-bit ones, that is) are usually larger, which consumes both more storage and more RAM once they're loaded, but they also get to use the extra registers and instructions (including native 64-bit integer math) that are available to 64-bit-aware programs, which can actually make them more efficient than their 32-bit counterparts in some cases. In other cases, they will be very slightly slower (largely due to cache coherency loss from the large pointer values) but the difference is pretty small.
Then, there's security. 64-bit programs can use high-entropy ASLR, which makes ASLR *vastly* more effective (32-bit OSes typically use only 8 or 12 bits of entropy for ASLR, which is good but still permits brute-forcing on repeatable attacks, and the occasional lucky hit in any case; HE-ASLR uses enough entropy that you could exploit every PC on the planet and still have a fair chance of missing every time). 32-bit programs have such small heaps that a heap-spraying attack (writing a NOP-sled into the payload instructions, so that if you pivot the instruction pointer onto the heap you will "slide down" to the payload) is practical, typically taking less than a second; on a 64-bit process, even if you could commit enough virtual memory (you can't; no existing PC can) it would take *years* to spray it all.
Finally, a nitpick about setting the threshold at 4GB for where 64-bit is needed instead of 32-bit. Video memory is typically mapped into the kernel address space, as are the I/O buffers for other drivers. In the old days, this was no big deal; a PC could easily afford to give up even a gig or so of kernel address space (assuming you weren't trying to assign more than 2GB to user-mode per-process allocation) and as long as you didn't have more than 3GB of physical memory, the memory manager could still address the rest of it. These days, even cheapo GPUs sometimes have more memory than that, and even a merely decent graphics card will have so much VRAM that a 32-bit system couldn't address all of it using the default 2GB user / 2GB kernel split. This isn't really a problem for embedded graphics, but anybody using 32-bit with a modern discrete GPU is nuts.
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Going 64 bits on less than 4 GB of RAM is like asking to get yourself the slowest possible computer.
You won't be able to do any sort of real multitasking, since the system itself will use twice the amount of RAM it uses on 32 bit systems.
A typical 64 bit windows uses around 1 GB of RAM. Witch means that out of the 2 GB the OP has, only 1 will be usable. A browser nowadays uses around 300MB, even more depending on tabs. The moment RAM consumption reaches a certain level, windows will start moving contents to the hard disk, making the entire computer much slower.
So yes, his performance will be severely crippled. I run a 64 bit OS on 2 GB ram once. It was horrible. I won't ever do it again.
And I doubt the OP needs better ecnyption keys on his tablet.
Let's not even dive into driver problems and other stuff which comes along. Dell is obviously only supporting the 32 bit OS. Otherwise they would have tossed 4 gigs of RAM and the 64 bit OS and increase the price by like 30 bucks and be done with it.
Windows (by default) has generic drivers
my Asus T100 Bay Trail with a clean Windows 8.1 x86 ISO could boot to desktop, but missing sound, wifi and other stuff
why don't you try it? Use the Windows 7 DVD ISO tool to create a bootable USB and try
http://www.microsoftstore.com/store/msusa/html/pbPage.Help_Win7_usbdvd_dwnTool
With all due respect, claiming that a 64-bit system uses 2x the RAM is absurd. The kernel uses 64-bit pointers internally on either 32-bit or 64-bit systems (to support PAE, which is enabled for NX/DEP support even though the addressable range is still capped to 4GB on client SKUs). Non-pointer data structures are not defined in terms of "int" and "long", but in terms of DWORD (which is always 32 bits, whether on the 16-bit systems that the type got its name from, or on 32-bit or 64-bit machines), LARGE_INTEGER, etc. A fresh Win8 x64 install, at the desktop, uses about 280MB of RAM.
I have personally used both 32-bit and 64-bit OSes on the same 2GB-of-RAM hardware, and I assure you: the difference in performance is not perceptible except benchmarks. This was a Vista system, to boot; Vista uses more RAM than Win7, much less Win8.
mcosmin222 said:
Going 64 bits on less than 4 GB of RAM is like asking to get yourself the slowest possible computer.
You won't be able to do any sort of real multitasking, since the system itself will use twice the amount of RAM it uses on 32 bit systems.
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I use a 5-year old desktop with a Intel Core2Duo processor and 2 GB of RAM, and it happily runs 64-bit Windows 8.
Yes, I do a lot of multitasking and have 10-12 tabs open in my browser at any given time, and I don't see any noticeable difference from when the same system used to run 32-bit Windows.
paperWastage said:
why don't you try it? Use the Windows 7 DVD ISO tool to create a bootable USB and try
http://www.microsoftstore.com/store/msusa/html/pbPage.Help_Win7_usbdvd_dwnTool
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Rufus is better for creating bootable USB IMO:
Found the MS tool a bit flaky, often refuses to write to drives.
x64 does not support Connected Standby
Related
Since the new official WM6.5 is using a lot of RAM, does this affect the speed of the device?
Or does it merely mean that there can't be as many apps open until it reaches critical level?
Not directly, it should not. Only if it reaches a certain level, as you said.
It's likely however that WM6.5 uses more processing power than 6.1, but I can't say for sure.
It should not affect the performance, I have been up to 80% or more and never experienced any lag issues.
Cool thanks for the replies
One of the biggest misconceptions about RAM on Windows Mobile or indeed most operating systems, is that it's a good thing to have lots of free ram available. It's not. It's a complete waste of resources. The most efficient use of RAM would be bouncing off 100% used as much as possible.
It's good to have free RAM up until you have nothing more to execute. Having more RAM ensures you never reach this limit and start swapping.
I may not use all 4GB on my PC at once, but when the next version of XXXXX game comes out, I may end up using more than I do now. The overhead ensures I don't have to go out and buy more memory to ensure reliable performance.
A little off topic, but seems like a good place to ask: Opera (using 6.1, original or TESS) often struggles rendering complex (and sometimes even simple) pages. When you scroll to a new part of the page there are delays while it redraws the new bits. When you scroll back, it has to redraw the original bits. There are annoying delays and large ugly grey areas while it does this. I often have 3-4 tabs open BTW.
The question is, can Opera be allocated more memory (since I have plenty, especially since TESS) or is it completely automatic under WM? I've poked around in the registry and there are a couple of keys for "memory allocation" and "heap allocation", or some such, under the Opera section, but they're just numbers, they don't look like Mbytes, if you see what I mean.
The slow redrawing thing feels like a memory problem, as though it's redrawing from storage cache rather than quicker RAM cache, that's why I ask.
ArtieQ said:
It should not affect the performance, I have been up to 80% or more and never experienced any lag issues.
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I fully agree with you.
The only problem is that programs that use lots of memory will not start. In fact I can play with Xtrakt only if I disable manila, otherwise the system not have enough memory to start it.
Sorry for the bad English
im sorry but if your PC or phone whatever you like is using alot of RAM, say %90, then this is going to cause the device to slow down.
once you reach a certain limit of RAM left, it has to start using disk space as temporary RAM and as such everything becomes slower.
RAM makes it quicker ONLY when the program you want is loaded into the RAM. So in windows if you have alot of programs running in the task area, then yes these programs will run up very quickly. But try then to open up another program when your memory is briming and you will find that it will slow it up.
To have memory running at a high percentage used is bad practise. In theory its good because it means things are loaded, but its only the things that are loaded that notice the speed benifits. There needs to be a cut off point.
adamrob69 said:
im sorry but if your PC or phone whatever you like is using alot of RAM, say %90, then this is going to cause the device to slow down.
once you reach a certain limit of RAM left, it has to start using disk space as temporary RAM and as such everything becomes slower.
RAM makes it quicker ONLY when the program you want is loaded into the RAM. So in windows if you have alot of programs running in the task area, then yes these programs will run up very quickly. But try then to open up another program when your memory is briming and you will find that it will slow it up.
To have memory running at a high percentage used is bad practise. In theory its good because it means things are loaded, but its only the things that are loaded that notice the speed benifits. There needs to be a cut off point.
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Your understanding of the OS and therefore your conclusions are wrong. Desktop Windows is a different beast to Windows Mobile. When physical RAM gets low in Windows, it swaps data out to the disk. In WM it doesn't, it asks programs to close down (then forces them if none of them do), on a least recently used basis. For this reason, in WM, you might as well have applications using free RAM since they're effectively 'cached' and ready to be called up quickly. Should you start another process that requires that RAM, then the old processes will be closed very quickly. In WM, free RAM is wasted RAM.
Hi
For this reason, in WM, you might as well have applications using free RAM since they're effectively 'cached' and ready to be called up quickly. Should you start another process that requires that RAM, then the old processes will be closed very quickly. In WM, free RAM is wasted RAM.
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Exactly Which is why having the HTC task bar shut down applications on clicking the cross is a complete waste of time. Windows Mobile is designed to leave applications loaded even when you close them, that way they are ready immediately when you want them again. This saves times and also power.
As already stated Windows Mobile will close applications automatically if required to free up some space.
Empty RAM is a complete waste, and is an argument against increasing RAM in Windows Mobile devices to silly headline amounts as even in standby that RAM has to be kept powered even if not being used.
Regards
Phil
I should know this by now , but I dont.
512 rom leaves us with roughly 190mb for App storage depending on cache correct ?
What about free memory in task killer Showing only 66mb free. With only a few apps running. Is the new OS that heavy ?
KOF33 said:
I should know this by now , but I dont.
512 rom leaves us with roughly 190mb for App storage depending on cache correct ?
What about free memory in task killer Showing only 66mb free. With only a few apps running. Is the new OS that heavy ?
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Android isn't like Windows. It maximizes the use of whatever memory you have. It's very rare that you'll ever see a lot of free memory (I never have on the G1, even after a reboot). The reason why, is that Android keeps the apps in memory until it starts to run out of room, then frees up memory as needed. This also makes it much faster if you end up opening up an app that's already in memory. In short, don't worry... 66mb free is a good thing.
Actually, the current firmware does not support the full 512Mb. It only supports about 200Mb.
A future kernel update will allow access to more of this (also, radio/screen/etc take some of the physical memory).
bbsydney said:
Actually, the current firmware does not support the full 512Mb. It only supports about 200Mb.
A future kernel update will allow access to more of this (also, radio/screen/etc take some of the physical memory).
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Can you link to where you got this information?
Roughly 220MB is available to userspace in the shipping build (ERD79).
Quite a lot of memory is dedicated to the radio firmware (41MB), dsp firmware (32MB), display surfaces (32MB), gpu (3MB), camera (8MB), a/v buffers (41MB), and dsp buffers. Much of this needs to be set aside for these specific tasks due to hardware requirements of very large physically contiguous buffers which can be difficult or impossible to obtain after boot once the physical memory space gets fragmented.
The big limitation though is that the Linux kernel needs to do a 1:1 physical:virtual map of general purpose memory used by the kernel and userspace (which excludes the special purpose stuff described above). This eats into the available kernel virtual address space, which is also needed for cross process shared memory used by the binder, etc. Run out of virtual memory and things get unhappy.
In 2.6.32, HIGHMEM support for ARM will allow us to avoid this requirement for a 1:1 mapping which will allow us to increase memory available to userspace without running the system out of virtual memory adddress space.
swetland said:
Roughly 220MB is available to userspace in the shipping build (ERD79).
Quite a lot of memory is dedicated to the radio firmware (41MB), dsp firmware (32MB), display surfaces (32MB), gpu (3MB), camera (8MB), a/v buffers (41MB), and dsp buffers.
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Thats like 200mb already. What about older phones with only 192mb and 256mb of ram?
I assume older phones will use less ram in the radio firmware and dsp firmware. So why does the N1 require so much more in the radio firmware and dsp firmware etc..?
The radio firmware is also 41MB on all previous devices.
The QSD8250 uses a new DSP which requires an additional 32MB (the 7k devices do not have this requirement). Due to the display having ~2.5x the pixels, window bitmaps are larger and that region grew from 16MB to 32MB to compensate. 720p h264 decode with the new DSP requires quite a lot of memory (41MB worst case, thus the a/v buffer size).
THANK YOU for the clear explanation. So, a later kernel/ROM release should make the unit even "faster" (that is, able to use more RAM and possibly have more things cached), correct? If so, that's sweet.
Sorry if these are DUH questions, but while I've been working with computers since the mid 80's, I'm fairly new to the smart phone game and unfamiliar with the way they work internally.
Is the RAM on these phones a physical chip (like a PC) or is it a software defined allocation (virtual)?
Also, and more importantly, if it is software defined, is it possible to allocate more of the phones internal storage memory to RAM?
I've noticed that while I'm only using about 7% of the internal storage, RAM is typically running at about 80% used.
The device is rooted, running 2.3.2 and currently running the stock VZW rom.
Any insight on this would be appreciated.
Thanks!
I imagine android uses virtual addressing instead of physical addressing but I'm not sure.
I CAN tell you, though, that android (specifcally the dalvik vm) is designed to keep things in memory instead of freeing it to reduce load times, etc. If it starts to run out of memory it unloads things, probably on a LRU basis.
I see. So then the amount of available RAM really doesn't matter as it works more like cache?
It's not really much different in windows... if your usage is under certain limits, very little will be paged out. 99% mem in use is fine in windows. 101% is not.
I guess the main difference is that closing an app is not as integral to android as it is to windows, so those of us who are accustomed to closing apps to save memory feel a bit odd.
Sent from my DROID2 using XDA App
True, but a windows system with twice the memory of another, will usually run better. Which is what prompted me to ask this question to begin with. I figured if there was a way to re-appropriate some of the unused portion of the storage area to the frequently used area of RAM, it would make the system run faster and smoother. I just don't know if it's possible or if it even makes a difference with the Android/Linux OS.
We listen many times about ROM & RAM but what is the difference between those two words ?
There are a big different between ROM & RAM
ROM stands for "Read-Only Memory", it is a type of built-in memory which be used in computers, Mobiles and other electronic devices and as its name indicates, it is used only for reading data from it, You can not write to it or change it. The manufacturers use it to store devices data.
RAM stands for "Random Access Memory", it is opposite of ROM as it is used for reading and writing so this memory is available for operating systems, programs and processes to use when the computers is running.
That was a brief about the difference between ROM & RAM. I hope it was useful and you can learn more information about this by searching for "ROM & RAM" on Google :good:
Difference Between RAM and ROM
RAMROMRAM is volatile memory, which could store data as long as power is supplied.ROM is a nonvolatile memory, which could store data permanently.RAM is read-write memory, data can be retrieved and altered.ROM is read-only memory, data can be read-only, we cannot alter the data.RAM is faster in speedROM is slower in speedRAM is expensiveROM is cheaper than RAMThe CPU can access data stored in RAMThe CPU can not access the data stored in ROM unless data is stored in RAMRAM is used as cache memory in the computerROM is used as firmware by microcontrollersRAM consists of four components which are memory matrix, address decoder, input buffer, and output bufferROM consists of two components which are Decoder and OR gates
Read this article to learn the difference between RAM and ROM.
RAM is Random Access Memory, it's fast temporary storage, used by applications and the operation system. ROM is Read Only Memory, the EEPROM chip, Electronically Erasable Programmable Read Only Memory, the BIOS, basic input and output system, is stored on it, the control panel that has the drivers used to communicate with all hardware firmwares, gets signals from them, and sets certain variables, based on the customization stored on the CMOS Battery and the signals being watched for, some flash a different BIOS on the EEPROM chip in order to enable and disable settings to allow for a having a virtual layers, allowing for virtual drivers/kexts and hardware spoofing, in order to install Mac OS on PC hardware, it'd be called a Hackintosh. However, in Android terms, the ROM is the operating system image, like Windows has an ISO file، developers have it customized to add and remove apps and features on the on the stock OS image. I hope this was helpful
If all of these problems are any indication, Microsoft has a lot of work to do. Plus, there are still a lot of Windows 10 problems that are still around, like printer connectivity issues. But, who knows, maybe Microsoft will actually fix some of these problems in the Windows 10 May 2019 Update, which should be out soon.
Still, if you’re having a hard time with the operating system, we’ve compiled a guide to 100 of the most common Windows 10 problems, and how to fix them – whether it’s a Windows 10 problem with a printer or connectivity issues. So, if you’re trying to troubleshoot your device, keep reading.
1. Having enough space to install Windows 10:
If you're planning to move to Windows 10, actually installing the OS is the first area you could potentially run into problems with. Installing a new operating system requires a certain amount of free space on your drive so that it can be downloaded and certain elements can be run successfully.
For Windows 10, the space requirement is 16GB, which should be kept free on the main system drive the computer uses. This is actually the same as previous versions of Windows, so if you've upgraded before you can most likely do it again.
If you want to check how much space is left on your PC, go to My Computer (or This PC, depending on which version of Windows you’re running) where any drives you have will be listed. You can see the remaining space indicated beneath each drive, or you can right click and select Properties for a better overview (your system drive is usually C
2. Checking you have a powerful enough PC:
Just as with space requirements, your PC will also have to be capable of running Windows 10. This means that it must reach certain minimum system requirements.
The requirements for running Windows 10 are relatively low: A processor of 1GHz or faster; 1GB (32-bit) or 2GB (64-bit) of RAM; 16GB of free drive space; Microsoft DirectX 9 graphic device; and a Microsoft account combined with internet access.
To find out your PC's spec, go to Control Panel and select System and Security, then System.
However, keep in mind that these are the minimum requirements, and you should shoot for higher specs to have a smooth and enjoyable experience.
It's no worse for device compatibility than Windows 7, considering that many drivers are likely ports up from W7. That said, as you pointed out, Windows 10 is still a WIP OS and does get better with each feature update. However they've resolved your space issues with the Reserved Update partition, as long as you have enough space for the Reserved partition, the update should work.