Related
Hi all,
I have the o2 xda flame and I want to develope 3d app for it using its 3d accelerator.
The problem is that I dont know how to link with the opengl es dll's in the device.
I used the vincent/rasteroid opengles implemenation on the device and they are working (but no hardware accelaration so its not good and very slow).
Can anyone explain me how do I link with the device's dlls (libGLES_CM.lib and libEGL.lib)?
btw I'm using visual studio 2005.
Thanks.
You need the correct libraries. Its using a Goforce 5500 chip from Nvidia, which mean you have to get the libraries from nvidia. Usually only given to certified developers. But try to register at their Mobile developer site and hold your thumbs
Welcome to XDA-Dev
Don't forget to cross-post your suff to
1. the Flame thread at http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=305686
2. the CorePlayer forums (I've linked it in from the above thread) - the latter people will surely look into the secrets of the 5500, particularly now that the i-mate Ultimate series will also have it and the Toshi G900 also has it.
@karamba
any news on your projects?
Wanted docks amd links with instructions sets of omap850 or any useful information for driver development or low level programing of omap850
try using google first.
I did but unsuccessfully
OMAP 850 has a ARM926EJ-S CPU
info on this chip is here: http://www.arm.com/products/CPUs/ARM926EJ-S.html
Have a look at this:
http://rtds.cs.tamu.edu/web_462/techdocs/ARM/cores/DVI0035B_926_PO.pdf
More info:
http://www.atmel.com/dyn/resources/prod_documents/6128s.pdf
The main that now is necessary is the documentation on programming the processor, management of devices on buses etc. It is desirable with examples on the assembler
UP. Question is stil open
----UP----
----UP----
----UP----
i swear this isnt the right forum for something like this..
swear this isnt the right forum for something like this..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
if you know write give me a link
First of all I'm no trying to troll nor spam, I am a T-mobile G2x user and over at the G2x forums we started a thread, http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1360051 this thread is to get nvidia to release the source code for the tegra 2 chip, this way we can get more stable roms and yes fully functional ICS build.
I'm only doing this because the Atrix uses the same tegra 2 chip, thanks for your understanding.
I sent mine!
http://developer.nvidia.com/contact
Just to let you know, Nvidia is in no way required to release drivers for their SoC. That stuff is completely proprietary and doesn't fall under the GPL.
i sent mine!
Submitted!
Occupy ?
Dont think so, we're not pirates. I've sent an email to nvidia.
Hello,
Please release source code for the Tegra2, so the developers can support our mobile devices and tablets better and faster. I want to take more advantage of the Tegra2 chip inside my Motorola Atrix 4g and hoping that you could give the community a hand about this.
Regards, Sinan.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
edgeicator said:
Just to let you know, Nvidia is in no way required to release drivers for their SoC. That stuff is completely proprietary and doesn't fall under the GPL.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
We are all aware of this, but maybe with a shot of luck they decide to help developers, and release at least some code.
Even Microsoft has released some of their code to the GPL.
Sent from my LG-P999 using XDA App
Also submitted. Regardless of what may come out of this, at least we tried.
Submitted!
I don't want to hijack the other thread. But I think the best action you can take is generate some publicity from the media.
Go to Engadget. http://www.engadget.com/
There should be a red 'Tip US' on the right hand side of the webpage. Let the problem get on the main page of Engadget.
Thank you/
Email sent.
Email sent - also if anyone is wondering what to say, here is what i sent to them...may not be perfect but it gets the job done:
Hello. I am writing today to ask that you please release the source code for the Tegra 2 chip to the public.
As you most likely know, the android os has a very large developer community. With this community comes ground breaking software development and can also make an already great product become an even bigger product.
An example would be Samsung hiring the lead developer of the CyanogenMod7 custom Rom for Android.
They also gave the team one of their latest devices for further testing.
Now that device is one of the most sold Android phones of 2011.
The Tegra chip has a following already because of the little bit of development that we have been able to squeeze out of it with out the help of Nvidia. (source code)
But we believe and know that we can develop upon it even further and show Nvidia and others what the Tegra is really capable of. Which in turn will bring more interest to the chip and devices that carry the chip and that just means more sales.
It is only a win-win situation.
Thank you for reading.
Sincerely
a Nvidia customer.
you guys are asking for specific stuff in a very generic matter. nvidia has a git hub with tons of stuff already! and im sure if you ask them for ics tegra2 drivers for the atrix or g2x they will deliver.
as for nvidia helping devs, its happend!
sent mine
i did sent mine.
hope this count.
Sent it, couldn't copy the message though...
---------- Post added at 07:50 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:28 PM ----------
Oh yea change the thread title to:
"Release the Tegra" Movement Thread [& how you can help] [Atrix]
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Then fix your post. Make it look professional so If any of the Nvidia Dev's see it, they'ed take it seriously...
Hey Guys,
I am a T-mobile G2x user and over at the G2x forums we started a thread, [ics2g2x] [occupy nvidia]how you can help!. This request thread is to get Nvidia to release the source code for the tegra 2 chip, this way we can get more stable roms and yes a fully functional ICS build.
You can help in multiple ways. It doesn't matter how you help, as long as you did that becomes a +1 support for this thread!
1. Call them at (408) 486-2000 and ask for developer relations.
2. Email them at http://developer.nvidia.com/contact. Make sure your info is accurate so that they'll accept it.
3. Advertise this thread at places like Engadget or some other well known information website.
4. Get creative do something that we haven't listed up here, anything counts... (As long as it's good)
I'm only doing this because the Atrix uses the same tegra 2 chip, thanks for your understanding.
Support Count:
1. cervantesjc
2. WiredPirate
3. edgeicator
4. picaron1
5. OSNPA
6. Semseddin
7. vinay427
8. cption
9. Jibraldor
10. J-Roc
11. hormosapiens
12. Alaq
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Copy and paste this into your post if you feel lazy. And update the Support Count every 1-2 days to keep this going.
I agree with changing the title in case anyone from nvidia see the thread.
however, I would leave any sort of "occupy" verbiage out. due to the recent media coverage of everything "occupy" related, it's not entirely a positive way to bring about change to what we want as far as code.
it seems a tad bit brutish to use that word to request something at this point.
imo.
Sent from my MB860 using XDA App
ifalldownalot said:
I agree with changing the title in case anyone from nvidia see the thread.
however, I would leave any sort of "occupy" verbiage out. due to the recent media coverage of everything "occupy" related, it's not entirely a positive way to bring about change to what we want as far as code.
it seems a tad bit brutish to use that word to request something at this point.
imo.
Sent from my MB860 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yea it might cause some problems.... Fixed:
"Release the Tegra" Movement Thread [& how you can help] [Atrix]
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Semseddin said:
we're not pirates.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Speak for yourself lol.
Yeah, the thread title is a bad (polarizing) choice imho. I have enough trouble occupying my own space. And I certainly don't want to be seen in any sort of occupy movement. I work for what I have/want/need (and as an added bonus, to support the wants/needs of the occupiers, hurray for me!). But since the spirit of the thread isn't that sort of nonsense, I'm in. Message sent.
And no griping at me because I bit at the title... It was just sitting there staring at me with those "I want your stuff" and "Are you crazy? No I don't want to work for it" eyes...
Since I never do anything at work I will send them an email, spread this around, contact engadget, gizmodo, and more. I really want the ATRIX to become active. Its been dead around here a little.
Sent from my MB860 using XDA App
EDIT 25.11.13
The experimental Build with the new exynos sources works fine on the S3 and improves on graphics related stuff. There are some things that are broken but I hope those issues can be ironed out.
XpLoDWilD said:
In collaboration with geecko, here's a test build with the updated graphics stuff.
======== Don't expect it to be working 100% correctly that's not the goal. This build is exclusively to get your feedback on graphics and overall performance of the ROM. It is known that Camera and video playback might be both broken partially in this build.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
GeeckoDev said:
It basically enables us to use hardware overlays, which means that the GPU has less work to do because all the compositing work is managed by fimd. Better performance (butter), lower power consumption. :good:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If someone wants to try it out, it can be downloaded here (FOR S3 I9300 ONLY):
http://dl.omnirom.org/omni-4.4-20131119-i9300-EXPERIMENTAL-GRAPHICS.zip
EDIT 19.11.13
Samsung dropped an insignal Update for the Exynos 4412 devices which can be used with AOSP. It's hard to implement but thanks to the brilliant developers at XDA there is hope. Check this out from the Omni Thread:
Scarface1991 said:
I found those 2 interesting commits:
https://gerrit.omnirom.org/#/c/2431/
https://gerrit.omnirom.org/#/c/2436/
What's with the insignal exynos4 update? Does it actually do any good? (I would be very surprised if Samsung would actually do something positive for the developer community ^^)
And also will the second commit when implemented enable tv-out on the I9100? Will this be usable on other Exynos devices especially the I9300?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Entropy512 said:
I have been too busy with other stuff to mess with them. In theory - actual working hwcomposer and maybe TV-out. More than 6 months after when they promised, Insignal finally dropped an update, but it proved extremely difficult to integrate at that time plus none of the "old" crew had much motivation to mess with it. Clement seems to have gained motivation and has done some great stuff so far.
The initial Insignal drop was actually for Exynos 4412 devices. 4412 and 4210 are nearly identical, main differences are regarding JPEG compression and the camera interfaces.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
GeeckoDev:
Ok, so now hwcomposer isn't complaining anymore. Screen is completely black now because fences are timing out (surfaces are ready to be displayed when the fence is firing). dmesg is full of derp, looks like Mali driver is complaining. That's another progress... getting closer
EDIT: sent a mail to three samsung developers.. who knows
EDIT2: xplodwild should release a test build for i9300 users tomorrow.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The Test build is going to be for the I9300 but since the S2 has an almost identical SoC it's not far behind if everything works out for the I9300. It's great news and that's what we need
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Before 2013:
EDIT
Until now there was a lot of talk from Samsung but everything they released so far is useless for AOSP. They promised full availability of Exynos Source Code by the end of 2012. Let`s see if this time they can keep their promise or if it will be just talk like in the past with the eMMC Super-Brick issue.
25/10/2012 Samsung Exynos Tweets:
Yes, we are opening up HAL source code for the platform, which includes HWC, camera, gralloc, audio and light.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Developers: Expect full availability of integrated source code for #Exynos 4 family of processors on OrigenBoard by the end of 2012!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
https://twitter.com/SamsungExynos/status/261482746101235712
Git server access will also be available to the public in Nov. 2012
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
https://twitter.com/SamsungExynos/status/261483932925689856
Now let`s hope they really mean it and that they don`t open up something useless...
Nevertheless I`m glad that we accomplished something.
Samsung presentation at the Big Android BBQ:
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"lightbox_error": "The requested content cannot be loaded. Please try again later.",
"lightbox_start_slideshow": "Start slideshow",
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"lightbox_full_screen": "Full screen",
"lightbox_thumbnails": "Thumbnails",
"lightbox_download": "Download",
"lightbox_share": "Share",
"lightbox_zoom": "Zoom",
"lightbox_new_window": "New window",
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}
chainfire tweets:
It seems Samsung is saying there will be sourcecode for the needed Exynos parts... I'm not sure it's everything TeamHacksung needs, ...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
... but I'm sure they'll let us know. It all sounds very promising though. First stuff should be seen in weeks, complete before 2013.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Complete Samsung Developers Session:
This thread is the equivalent to the one in the SIII Forums and not my idea. AntonLiv92 started the thread to inform people where they can write personal concerns to Samsung, so they will release the source code and proper documentation for Exynos based devices and as you probably all know our SII is based on Samsung`s Exynos 4210 processor.
This thread will inform you people where to contact Samsung, so that we get their attention or as codeworkx said:
Originally Posted by codeworkx
If they don't know that there are a lot of users out who are pissed because of the bad exynos support, then they'll not change anything.
If 10 users are crying -> just 10 users, ignore them.
If 1000 users are crying -> ok, let's think a few minutes about it.
If 100.000 users are crying -> holy ****, we have to do something
If you stop crying, they'll stop paying attention and you've achieved nothing like in the past.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So our goal is to get Samsung`s attention by writing as many concerns as possible of missing source code to Samsung. Of course it`s also important what you write, so it`s not just a big noob campaign asking for the Source Code. Codeworkx made a list of what is needed:
Originally Posted by codeworkx
- git repos
- commit history
- release patches if ready as single commits and not as big messed up tarballs
- up2date reference code for their video interfaces
- up2date reference camera hal to work with these interfaces
- up2date reference audio hal
- up2date reference hardwarecomposer
- patches needed for android framework (platform support)
- gralloc if possible
- maybe hdmi?
- maybe fmradio?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You can find a done letter that you can copy and paste more down below.
Main Petition thread in the SIII Forums created by AntonLiv92:
[MISSION] Let's get some Exynos sources! - xda-developers
There is also a thread in the Galaxy Note N7000 section as well now created by androidindian:
[IMPORTANT] Make Samsung release "Exynos" sources! - xda-developers
Galaxy Note II:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=32684117#post32684117
And the AT&T Samsung Galaxy S II SGH-I777 section as well:
Samsung Exynos Movement(POLL ADDED) - xda-developers
German Thread regarding this issue:
http://www.android-hilfe.de/samsung...moegliche-freigabe-der-exynos-quellcodes.html
Thread on Androidforums:
http://androidforums.com/samsung-ga...1098-push-samsung-release-exynos-sources.html
Facebook group "Polite request to Samsung to release Exynos source code":
https://www.facebook.com/ExynosSourceCode
So yes we are serious about this!
HOW TO CONTACT SAMSUNG?
Via Twitter: https://twitter.com/SamsungExynos
https://twitter.com/samsungmobile
Via Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/SamsungMobile
Via Google+: https://plus.google.com/+SamsungMobile
You can write a personal letter regarding the release of the source code to:
http://opensource.samsung.com/reception/receptionSub.do?method=inquiry
If you don`t have time for writing a big letter, this is a already written one that you can copy and paste:
Requester: Enter your name.
ID (E-mail): Enter your email address.
Country: Select your country.
Inquiry Type: Select "Request for Source Codes".
Model: Enter "Samsung I9100 Galaxy S II".
Message: Copy & Paste the following...
Dear Samsung,
without a doubt you build the best phones on the market and I really enjoy using the Galaxy SII I9100 but there is a problem. A lot of people like to use mods like the popular CyanogenMod on your flagship
devices. Without the source code and proper documentation great developers like codeworkx who is a device maintainer for Samsung phones at XDA-Developers.com start to turn their back on Samsung
phones like the Galaxy SIII because they are based on the Exynos processor due to the fact that there is a lack of source code and proper documentation. Since developers are the lifeblood of Android it`s
not a good sign to see them leave to other companies who provide proper source code and documentation. Qualcomm and Texas Instruments understand that and they released their source code and
developers are using it to do great things.
With this letter I ask you to release Source code and proper documentation for the Exynos 4210 and the Exynos 4412 and in the best case it should include the following:
- git repos
- commit history
- release patches if ready as single commits and not as big messed up tarballs
- up2date reference code for their video interfaces
- up2date reference camera hal to work with these interfaces
- up2date reference audio hal
- up2date reference hardwarecomposer
- patches needed for android framework (platform support)
- gralloc if possible
- maybe hdmi?
- maybe fmradio?
Thank you for your great phones and I really hope that you will release the above stated things.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Responses from Twitter @samsungExynos
There are other signs that this might go somewhere, since this concern is reported now on several popular Android-blogs like Androidcentral and sites like XDA Developers, which will lead to even bigger popularity on this issue.
They also contacted the CM team:
codeworkx said:
Seems you got korea's attention because of the "flooding" the community is currently doing via opensource.samsung.com. twitter, facebook and so on. They contacted us and we told them again what the community wants to have.
You know that bad press for samsung is our most effective weapon to make things changing.
So if you want to make samsung to continue paying attention, you know what to do...
Fight till you got what you want to have.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
XDA:
Samsung Aware of Exynos Documentation Issue – xda-developers
Androidcentral:
Samsung 'hears' Exynos community documentation concerns | Android Central
Sammobile:
Samsung Listens To Developer Concerns Over Missing Exynos Docs | SamMobile
Androidauthority:
Samsung acknowledges lack of documentation for Exynos SoC
Androidpit:
Exynos-Affäre: Entwickler setzen Samsung unter Druck - AndroidPIT
Sammyhub:
Samsung Investigating Exynos Documentation Issue - Sammy Hub
Tech-Gadget:
Samsung ‘hears’ Exynos community documentation concerns | Tech Gadget
Other links in the SIII thread.
Here is also a great video that summarizes this whole mess about Samsung and Exynos:
It is also recommended to tip popular news-blogs like Engadget or the Verge, so maybe they write about us and what we try to accomplish.
I thought that this thread might be a good idea, since we have one of the biggest userbases on the Android-platform.
Now you guys know what to do
Big thanks to AntonLiv92 for letting me use the contact links in my thread
Post this on the development section as well because I think it's the most visited one
Sent from my GT-I9100 using xda app-developers app
GalaxyGusta said:
Post this on the development section as well because I think it's the most visited one
Sent from my GT-I9100 using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That goes totally against forum rules
Sent from my GT-I9100 using xda app-developers app
GalaxyGusta said:
Post this on the development section as well because I think it's the most visited one
Sent from my GT-I9100 using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think that this is not such a good idea because this thread has nothing to do with development directly, that`s why I posted it in the general section, which is also visited quite well I would say because of the CM10 thread etc.
How about you guys propose this as news for xda and spread the news on android news sites? And tech sites...
Sent from my GT-I9100 using xda premium
karendar said:
How about you guys propose this as news for xda and spread the news on android news sites? And tech sites...
Sent from my GT-I9100 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just did it on Engadget.com. Let`s see, maybe it`s worth a news for them.
okay I'm crying now and I hope samsung hear it and release source code ASAP. My butt getting hot waiting for it.
Samsung is responding to the SIII campaign. Lets get the SII some attention too.
http://www.talkandroid.com/135667-s...oidForums (Android News, Rumours, and Updates)
Sent from my GT-I9300 using xda app-developers app
Warren.D said:
Samsung is responding to the SIII campaign. Lets get the SII some attention too.
http://www.talkandroid.com/135667-s...oidForums (Android News, Rumours, and Updates)
Sent from my GT-I9300 using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Old news
Sent from my SGS2
Actually that's what I'm afraid of, that they release the source code only for the SIII Exynos and not for the SII. But until now they haven't released anything of course but let's see, maybe if enough people cry then they hopefully will release something.
Sent from my GT-I9100 using xda app-developers app
Scarface1991 said:
Actually that's what I'm afraid of, that they release the source code only for the SIII Exynos and not for the SII. But until now they haven't released anything of course but let's see, maybe if enough people cry then they hopefully will release something.
Sent from my GT-I9100 using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
both the s3 and s2 use exynos 4.. so it should be fine i guess with the documentation. but let them say a yes.. they usually just keeps the hopes high and say no later. need to push them more!!
From Entropy's post in the CM10 thread they changed too many things between S3 Exynos and the S2 for it to be useful. Let's hope they release source code for both. Scarface you should make a thread in the I777 and N7000 general sections since they use the same chips and will be affected by this news or eventual developments, I'm a I777 user and only use my own ported i9100 ROMS
the audio maybe is the problem, s3 and s2 have totally differente chip...
good idea :good:
maybe we will reach it also when we ask about the camera firmware?
Just send this letter to: http://opensource.samsung.com/reception/receptionSub.do?method=inquiry
Dear Samsung,
without a doubt you build the best phones on the market and I really enjoy using the Galaxy SII I9100 but there is a problem. A lot of people like to use mods like the popular CyanogenMod on your flagship
devices. Without the source code and proper documentation great developers like codeworkx who is a device maintainer for Samsung phones at XDA-Developers.com start to turn their back on Samsung
phones like the Galaxy SIII because they are based on the Exynos processor due to the fact that there is a lack of source code and proper documentation. Since developers are the lifeblood of Android it`s
not a good sign to see them leave to other companies who provide proper source code and documentation. Qualcomm and Texas Instruments understand that and they released their source code and
developers are using it to do great things.
With this letter I ask you to release Source code and proper documentation for the Exynos 4210 and the Exynos 4412 and in the best case it should include the following:
- git repos
- commit history
- release patches if ready as single commits and not as big messed up tarballs
- up2date reference code for their video interfaces
- up2date reference camera hal to work with these interfaces
- up2date reference audio hal
- up2date reference hardwarecomposer
- patches needed for android framework (platform support)
- gralloc if possible
- maybe hdmi?
- maybe fmradio?
Thank you for your great phones and I really hope that you will release the above stated things.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
robertogl said:
the audio maybe is the problem, s3 and s2 have totally differente chip...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
For that we should spam yamaha
Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2
asasione said:
From Entropy's post in the CM10 thread they changed too many things between S3 Exynos and the S2 for it to be useful. Let's hope they release source code for both. Scarface you should make a thread in the I777 and N7000 general sections since they use the same chips and will be affected by this news or eventual developments, I'm a I777 user and only use my own ported i9100 ROMS
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Already done by other members
I777:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1929357
Note N7000:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=32622901#post32622901
Scarface1991 said:
Already done by other members
I777:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1929357
Note N7000:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=32622901#post32622901
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Bro I've written to some major blogs like engadget verge gsmarena.. Would be lovely if you would recommend tip them as well..The more we write to them they will do a feature writeup on this.. If the major blogs write about this the impact would be larger..
Sent from my GT-N7000 using xda premium
androidindian said:
Bro I've written to some major blogs like engadget verge gsmarena.. Would be lovely if you would recommend tip them as well..The more we write to them they will do a feature writeup on this.. If the major blogs write about this the impact would be larger..
Sent from my GT-N7000 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah I`ve wrote Engadget already about that. Will do as well on other popular blogs. Thanks
where do i sign?
Hi all,
The Exynoss 5433 chip is Samsung's first 64 bit chip, which is a direct cause of the somewhat high price of the tab S2.
You can imagine my disappointment when I figured out that the Exynos 5433-version ships with a 32-bit Android, without a 64-bit update in sight. My extra buck down the drain, stuck with a 2 year long feeling of having paid a vast sum of money for an ‘old’ device.
After having browsed the fora and blog posts, I’ve seen I’m not the only one. Realising that this is ‘only’ a matter of code, I can not help but feeling we can solve this! (Samsung, if not, then this will have been my last Samsung device).
I've launched a kickstarter campaign with 2 goals:
1) Gather all interested Tab S2 9.7 and Note 4 owners (both have the Exynos 5433 cpu) to pressure Samsung with a high amount of discontent customers to release the bootloader source code so a 64-bit bootloader & kernel can be developed.
2) Gather money to donate to a recognised developer that can make a 64-bit bootloader, once Samsung has released the bootloader source code.
With this tread, I’d like to ask:
- A moderator to allow me to add the link to the campaign in this post
- those interested to join and spread the word!
- the community for feedback on the content of the kickstarter-page
(from both technical and ‘sales’ point of view).
- the community for ideas for rewards for big funders?
I am sure that together, we can win this!
Dapollez
Samsung release the bootloader source code? That will never happen and neither are they obliged to.
A lot of unsatisfied customers could change their mind to providing a 64 bit marshmellow firmware themselves though? I realise it's a long shot, but I believe strongly that unite and gather the scattered votes, they would have to from a commercial viewpoint.
Thread closed.
This is rather futile, as stated in Post 2 - and the use of language (now edited out) to make a point is not welcome.