The quality of pen input on my Note 10.1 seems very poor compared to Lenovo's Thinkpad android tablet. Here are some screenshots from Quill and Papyrus for comparison:
https://plus.google.com/photos/118035123044388609537/albums/5778924744771043441
These screenshots are zoomed in about 5x from the size at which the text was written to make the difference obvious.
Has anyone else observed this? Could I just have a defective unit? The final picture in the album shows the result of using the S-Pen from my Galaxy Note 10.1 on a Tablet PC running Windows (Thinkpad X61 tablet - also a Wacom digitizer), so I don't think there's anything wrong with the pen.
PBSurf said:
The quality of pen input on my Note 10.1 seems very poor compared to Lenovo's Thinkpad android tablet. Here are some screenshots from Quill and Papyrus for comparison:
https://plus.google.com/photos/118035123044388609537/albums/5778924744771043441
Has anyone else observed this? Could I just have a defective unit? The final picture in the album shows the result of using the S-Pen from my Galaxy Note 10.1 on a Tablet PC running Windows (Thinkpad X61 tablet - also a Wacom digitizer), so I don't think there's anything wrong with the pen.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've seen that happen very occasionally in Lecture Notes... It's not as pronounced as yours, but it's the same thing.
Would be interested to see how many others are seeing the same thing.
That has never happened to me so far.
I have never used Lecture notes, so I cant comment on that, but pen - input has been working great for me in S Note.
This is not good news. I use Lecture Notes - it is my go-to app for notes. I'm getting mine tomorrow so I'll be testing and will report back.
The effect seems less noticeable in LectureNotes and S-Note under normal use because the minimum stroke width is relatively wide and, since both these save strokes as bitmaps instead of vector graphics, zooming in blurs everything. However, if I zoom out to 30% in LectureNotes, write, then zoom in, I see the same jaggedness.
Lecture Notes allows the user to set the pencil to any width, color or softness, softness adding an antialiasing effect.
If you set your pencils correctly there should be no jaggeness at all. Screen text on my Note looks fantastic in Lecture Notes, I actually prefer the realistic looking print to the S Note app. I mean, zoom in close on an image of actual pen or pencil on paper. The edges are not smooth at all.
I mean it's a note taking app. Why would you care that one looks slightly better than another at 5x magnification?
** I just looked at your images. Yeah you are doing the pencils wrong. Why would you want to write in super fine point anyway?
Sent from my awesome Note 10.1
FWIW I tried writing in a few apps (S Note, Writepad, and Papyrus) and I don't get any jagged lines. Will upload a screenshot later when I get a chance. This scared me for a second.
Edit: Here's a page of text from Papyrus: http://minus.com/lFGDz8vQlZUv3
As you can see, no jaggies like in your picture. Have you made sure that all battery saving options are off? That could cause some lag in the input capture.
Actually, if I zoom in the PDF you posted, I can see the same jaggedness, so the problem isn't my device. I guess I'm just too fussy
PBSurf said:
These screenshots are zoomed in about 5x from the size at which the text was written to make the difference obvious.
Has anyone else observed this? Could I just have a defective unit? The final picture in the album shows the result of using the S-Pen from my Galaxy Note 10.1 on a Tablet PC running Windows (Thinkpad X61 tablet - also a Wacom digitizer), so I don't think there's anything wrong with the pen.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi PBSurf, you have mentioned using the S pen on Windows Tablet PC wacom digitizer. Can you confirm if the reverse is true? That is to say, does your X61 pen work on the GNote. Coz that would be great! Especially with the felt tipped pens provided by Lenovo. Cheers!
kartikatre said:
Hi PBSurf, you have mentioned using the S pen on Windows Tablet PC wacom digitizer. Can you confirm if the reverse is true? That is to say, does your X61 pen work on the GNote. Coz that would be great! Especially with the felt tipped pens provided by Lenovo. Cheers!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I can confirm it works on our notes as I have the same tablet, the added benefit is that you can use the eraser function of the x61t too.
HasC said:
I can confirm it works on our notes as I have the same tablet, the added benefit is that you can use the eraser function of the x61t too.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sweet! Now.. The long wait till the GNote arrives here in Australia
kartikatre said:
Hi PBSurf, you have mentioned using the S pen on Windows Tablet PC wacom digitizer. Can you confirm if the reverse is true? That is to say, does your X61 pen work on the GNote. Coz that would be great! Especially with the felt tipped pens provided by Lenovo. Cheers!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, my X61T pen works on the Note 10.1. The eraser works in my application: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.styluslabs.write and probably some others (haven't checked). Unfortunately, the pen button does not work since Samsung reserves it for system-wide gestures (like double tap to bring up S-Note).
Samsung also offers an optional pen with an eraser for the Note.
http://www.shopblt.com/cgi-bin/shop...100200500150_BNY6142P.shtml&order_id=!ORDERID!
http://www.gearzap.com/official-samsung-s-pen-with-eraser-for-galaxy-note-10-1.html
I've got jaggies in Papyrus, and I imagine it's similar in Quill.
I think it has something to do with the vectorization of my strokes. If you zoom in and draw some curves, it's smooth until you take your pen off the surface, and then it goes jagged as the line is converted to points. I also think the pressure sensitivity is too high, so a bunch of fine lines at the end of letters appear when I don't actually want them.
I *think* the jaggedness is not a hardware issue... though the difference with the TPT and Note 10.1 is a little disconcerting. Maybe the TPT has a lower resolution digitizer so things are artificially straighter since there's a larger margin of error?
Charbucks said:
I've got jaggies in Papyrus, and I imagine it's similar in Quill.
I think it has something to do with the vectorization of my strokes. If you zoom in and draw some curves, it's smooth until you take your pen off the surface, and then it goes jagged as the line is converted to points. I also think the pressure sensitivity is too high, so a bunch of fine lines at the end of letters appear when I don't actually want them.
I *think* the jaggedness is not a hardware issue... though the difference with the TPT and Note 10.1 is a little disconcerting. Maybe the TPT has a lower resolution digitizer so things are artificially straighter since there's a larger margin of error?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Interesting ... you could see what happens in my writing application (see my previous post), since it does not smooth or otherwise alter the pen input, so nothing will change when the pen is lifted.
Since the s-pen (like any wacom pen) actually uses a pressure sensor between the tip and the pen body to determine when it's touching the screen, I did the following experiment: I put a piece of scotch tape over the tip of the s-pen tightly so that the tip was depressed and held in place. The pen of course then writes whenever it is in proximity to screen. In this experiment, I saw no jaggedness! I'm not sure what the implication of this is - maybe the problem is that the tip is too loose relative to the body. As I was packing up my Note 10.1 to return it, I noticed there were a bunch of replacement tips included, some of different types. Maybe trying a different type of tip might make a difference?
PBSurf said:
Interesting ... you could see what happens in my writing application (see my previous post), since it does not smooth or otherwise alter the pen input, so nothing will change when the pen is lifted.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ooh, I missed the link to your app! I like it! Took me a while to figure out all the options but it seems like a really nice S-note alternative. I also like that it doesn't seem to have pressure sensitivity, or at least not as extreme as Papyrus. It makes my writing look nicer overall. Here's a test: https://dl.dropbox.com/u/4504287/test.html
PBSurf said:
Since the s-pen (like any wacom pen) actually uses a pressure sensor between the tip and the pen body to determine when it's touching the screen, I did the following experiment: I put a piece of scotch tape over the tip of the s-pen tightly so that the tip was depressed and held in place. The pen of course then writes whenever it is in proximity to screen. In this experiment, I saw no jaggedness! I'm not sure what the implication of this is - maybe the problem is that the tip is too loose relative to the body. As I was packing up my Note 10.1 to return it, I noticed there were a bunch of replacement tips included, some of different types. Maybe trying a different type of tip might make a difference?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think the pen is just over-sensitive. When I write quickly with big long strokes, there's no jaggedness at all. When I reach the end of the stroke and thus slow down, it starts to jitter. Are you returning it because of this problem? That's sad
Charbucks said:
Ooh, I missed the link to your app! I like it! Took me a while to figure out all the options but it seems like a really nice S-note alternative. I also like that it doesn't seem to have pressure sensitivity, or at least not as extreme as Papyrus. It makes my writing look nicer overall. Here's a test: https://dl.dropbox.com/u/4504287/test.html
I think the pen is just over-sensitive. When I write quickly with big long strokes, there's no jaggedness at all. When I reach the end of the stroke and thus slow down, it starts to jitter. Are you returning it because of this problem? That's sad
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My main reasons for returning the Note 10.1 were the jagged writing, the inability to use the pen button in applications (since it's reserved for system-wide gestures) and TouchWiz (this was my first encounter with TouchWiz). I'll stick with my Thinkpad Android tablet for now, but I'm really looking forward to the Microsoft Surface Pro.
PBSurf said:
My main reasons for returning the Note 10.1 were the jagged writing, the inability to use the pen button in applications (since it's reserved for system-wide gestures) and TouchWiz (this was my first encounter with TouchWiz). I'll stick with my Thinkpad Android tablet for now, but I'm really looking forward to the Microsoft Surface Pro.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Really? You went back to the TPT? Pen button support will come, and the jagged writing will likely get fixed... Not to mention we're actually getting JB soon...
404Science said:
Really? You went back to the TPT? Pen button support will come, and the jagged writing will likely get fixed... Not to mention we're actually getting JB soon...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Jagged writing? Maybe if you use the ink pen on its thinnest setting. Other than that the antialiasing on the pen is outstanding. The pen writing on my Note is butter smooth.
Sent from my GT-N8013 using Tapatalk 2
don't have that problem
and now i always use the pen on the original note 5.3,it works great,too
guys would it be possible to take off the screens in each tablet and install the nexus 10 screen on the note 10.1 ?? Wouldnt that give us the resolution capabilities for it , and at the same time replace the battery and get the NFC ??
cubandevil said:
guys would it be possible to take off the screens in each tablet and install the nexus 10 screen on the note 10.1 ?? Wouldnt that give us the resolution capabilities for it , and at the same time replace the battery and get the NFC ??
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The Note has an inductive display to support the S-Pen and the N10's display is capacitive and the pen won't work. So, pick one.
so the screens are not separated like a digitizer and the actual screen ?? and sorry for these question im ignorant when it comes to things like these.
Pretty sure the Exynos 4 that's inside the Note 10.1 doesn't support the Nexus 10's screen resolution. So it won't work as far as I know.
The screen wont work for mainly two reasons the wavecom chip wont work with a capacative screen and it does not support higher resolution then what we have on the note. That is why not has that resolution
The processor does not support that high resolution.
These are main two reason apart from many other. Its like fitting a trucks body on a cars chassies
cubandevil said:
so the screens are not separated like a digitizer and the actual screen ?? and sorry for these question im ignorant when it comes to things like these.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Here's the difference between the two displays. An inductive display picks up an electro-magnetic signal from the pen where a capacitive display only can respond to physical contact. Based on the manufacturing complexity I'd guess the Note's display cost Samsung more than the FHD+ display on the N10.
BarryH_GEG said:
Here's the difference between the two displays. An inductive display picks up an electro-magnetic signal from the pen where a capacitive display only can respond to physical contact. Based on the manufacturing complexity I'd guess the Note's display cost Samsung more than the FHD+ display on the N10.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
We have both capacitive and inductive digitizers as we have dual digitizers one from atmel and the other is wacom
Sent from my X10S using xda app-developers app
hoss_n2 said:
We have both capacitive and inductive digitizers as we have dual digitizers one from atmel and the other is wacom
Sent from my X10S using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you guys , just using my imagination
I didnt know that the screen resolution mattered to the cpu , but then again a computer monitor will go as far as the graphics in a pc allows it ..
Yes the same concept works over here, it depends on how much the mali gpu allows it go to. Secondly as the resolution increase the processing power requirement also increases.
You can have insane resolutions but how pratical are they since most of the apps are developed for a 5inch screen.
This was posted in the N10 forum and sort of describes the challenges of inking on a capacitive display by someone who tried to solve them. To me, either inking works well or why bother. Using a kluge might get the job done but would be very frustrating. I'd rather live with the 720P display (which is still better in contrast and brightness than the N10's).
transceiver said:
I made the app Writepad Stylus to do precisely that, on the Asus Transformer 101. Palm rejection on a capacitive screen, without weird zoning boxes. It worked pretty well and I made a lot of money from it. But there are a ton of issues with that algorithm that I ran into when I got the Asus Transformer Prime, which ultimately made me give up on the app:
Bad capacitive screen sensitivity. The Transformer Prime and the Galaxy Tab 10.1 both have awful sensitivity settings, so the writing comes out looking like an 8 year old's scribble. It doesn't register all the input points. It doesn't start recording points until AFTER you move the stylus a certain distance. Ugh. There's an app that sorta fixes that called TouchscreenTune, but it requires root, and the settings for that are really hard to calibrate. Even after messing with that, it's still not as good as on the Xoom or the original Transformer.
Touch screen can't handle straight lines. If you try to draw a straight line horizontally or vertically, it comes out straight. If you try to draw a diagonal line, it comes out wiggly. This is also particular to certain tablet screens. Who knows whether a particular tablet will have good touch screen or crappy one? No reviewer tests for that kind of thing. You have to go to the store to try it out.
Your hand will accidentally hit the notification or navigation buttons, taking focus away from the app, or accidentally going back to the homescreen. As far as I know, this can happen even with the S-pen. Asus has a "lock navigation bar" feature on their tablets, which is nice. There's no way to hide the navigation bar or disable it while something is going on in app (unless you root your tablet).
Anyway, if someone wants to test these things on the Nexus 10 and report back, I'd be grateful since I can't find these in stores yet. Just try to write as small as you can with a capacitive stylus, and try to slowly draw straight diagonal lines.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
BarryH_GEG said:
Here's the difference between the two displays. An inductive display picks up an electro-magnetic signal from the pen where a capacitive display only can respond to physical contact. Based on the manufacturing complexity I'd guess the Note's display cost Samsung more than the FHD+ display on the N10.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You have posted a comparison between a RESISTIVE display and a capacitive/inductive one. The top picture is resistive which is old technology now, it's what the old smart phones and pocket PC's used and had a thin layer of plasticky material for sensing pressure. The note 10.1 uses both capacitive (for fingers) and inductive (for the pen).....and the nexus 10 just uses capacitive, not the screen in the 1st pic in your diagram. As far as I know, no screens use resistive tech anymore.
Sent from my GT-N8010 using xda app-developers app
The story so far: I've had just about every Galaxy Tab 7" - from the Original, to the Galaxy Tab 7 Plus, to the GT 7.7. I also have a Galaxy S3 and a Note 2. I love the Note 2 and when it was announced there would be a Note 8 I was excited that I'd be able to go to one device that was the 8" and have the phone capability that would work w/ my smartwatch and headset. They had to make a worthy successor to the 7.7, so I picked up the 8 the other week.
I am on the fence whether I keep the Note 8 or not - when I use my 7.7, I can't help but feel that the 8 could have been so much better.
That 7.7's Super AMOLED Plus screen has sex with my eyes, the Note 8 screen is ok, but it's strikingly obvious when you hold them side by side. Let's face it, on a tablet, the screen is a major factor of your experience/enjoyment and even though it would have been nice to have a higher resolution, I really miss the deep black for contrast to the vibrant popping colors. Also miss the battery savings from AMOLED when using dark backgrounds and UIs. Plus the 7.7 screen didn't have the pentile problems of other AMOLED screens.
The build quality, metal back, and thinness of the 7.7 was actually pretty nice for its generation. So many people overlooked it and now that Samsung has gone to the all plastic back like their phones it just feels less nice (not as important as I cover with a case anyway).
The 7.7 was just on the upper boundaries of fitting in some of my jacket/back pockets - the 8 definitely no longer fits in some of them and sort of hinders my use of being able to stick it in a pocket and not carry around a tablet bag (man purse).
What I was hoping for with the 8 was the current OS, stylus, HW guts of what they released but kept the build materials/quality and screen of the 7.7. Also wish they released the phone capable one on my carrier Verizon in the US - that would have been everything I wanted.
Has anyone else come from the 7.7 w/ the Super AMOLED Plus screen?
My path is 7.7->note 10.1->note 8
I agree the 7.7 display and build are at a higher level, but it also was very expensive +50% above note 8 here. The 10.1 and 8 have so many other features I don't mind the display regression.
Those 2 devices mixed would be an incredible device. If it had a good display (just equal the 7.7 even) and 3g/4g I'd sell my note 2 and be completely device satisfied.
I agree that the Tab 7.7 was/is a great device and display, and Samsung's best overall build-quality in a mobile device to this date. Unfortunately, Samsung priced it WAY out of the market to be considered by the general public and iPad users, and even very few of us geeks considered it because of the price alone. I also wish that they had the foresight to have slimmed down the long side bezels (like the iPad Mini) so that it would still fit in my pocket like the original Tab 7. At the time, the size and pocketability, and 3g/phone capabilities, were major advantages to me over the 9.7" iPads.
When the 7.7 came out I was ecstatic about the SA display and the build quality, but I was like, "Nooooooooooooooooo" when I found out the width and that it would no longer fit into my pockets. The original Tab 7 could and would go with me everywhere! The iPad 9.7 and Tab 7.7 would not.
Having used the Note 8.0, I agree about the display (as compared to the Tab 7.7), but it's not really that bad or noticeable unless you compare them side by side. You can also dim the screen on the Note 8.0 so it is barely lit for night viewing/reading in the dark. I also love the weight, balance, and bezels on the Note 8.0 because it is the most comfortable Tablet I've held to date. However, I would love to see how it feels (ergonomically) in hand and in day-to-day use with slimmer side bezels, so it might be possible to fit in my pockets!
I guess I don't think about price too much if the device meets my needs. I got the 7.7 for the same price I bought my Note 8 on a company discount, but there are still many people that think the $399 usd they want for the Note 8 is too high. There are rumors of a higher end successor to the 7.7, but without the stylus, I'm afraid I'd be again disappointed from having an "almost perfect" device.
bbfoto said:
However, I would love to see how it feels (ergonomically) in hand and in day-to-day use with slimmer side bezels, so it might be possible fit in my pockets!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Looked at the GN8 Wi-Fi today, and where my Galaxy Tab fit easily into my pockets, the GN8 just barely squeezed into it. Add a case and I doubt it will fit. Which is a big shame.
I do wish they had slimmed down the bezels. Doesn't really need to be so big =/
rEVOLVE said:
I guess I don't think about price too much if the device meets my needs. I got the 7.7 for the same price I bought my Note 8 on a company discount, but there are still many people that think the $399 usd they want for the Note 8 is too high. There are rumors of a higher end successor to the 7.7, but without the stylus, I'm afraid I'd be again disappointed from having an "almost perfect" device.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
^Agreed. Personally, I don't think that the $399 price is too much for what the Note 8.0 WiFi offers. But I think in the general public's eyes, $399 IS too much. They don't understand the unique features, they just think, "it's an 8-inch tablet with a bunch of icons/apps" and they are probably more familiar with iOS apps.
First thing they see when comparing at the store...the build quality compared to the lower priced iPad Mini. In their head..."why should I pay more for the 8-inch Hyundai when I can have a beautiful 8-inch Porsche for less?" The iPad Mini is thinner, it's smaller overall, and sleeker. It's an Apple. Oh, and it's $70 less.
$330 and $400 are a big difference in the consumer's mind. Again, they don't compare the unique features, they are both just 8" screens with icons. (We know know the real difference.)
I think $349.99 would have been the better price for the Note 8.0. It's still quite a bit below that psychological "$400" mark. And then people could rationalize that, "okay, I'll get a slightly sharper screen and a stylus for just $20 more than the iPad Mini. Cool." But then there's that build quality/premium feel of the iPad Mini. Is the S-Pen enough to make a difference? "Hell, the kids will probably just lose the stylus anyway!" So iPad Mini it is.
Unfortunately, at least in the stores, Samsung doesn't do a good job of making the unique features known.
Research shows that A LOT of people use their tablets while watching TV. If a store display (especially at Best Buy where they sell a boatload of HDTVs) demonstrated the Note 8.0 IR Blaster as the [email protected] Universal Remote that it is, I think that a lot of people would have that "Holy Sheit" moment..."this is awesome, we could get rid of all of our stupid remotes!"..."just wait 'til the guys see this at our next Monday Night Football GTG!" And how many of us have TVs in our bedroom, and also use our tablets to read while in bed? Just another use case scenario.
...anyway, I would LOVE to see a 1080P, non-pentile Super-AMOLED Plus display in a Note 8.0 with thinner side bezels! Samsung, are you listening?
---------- Post added 26th April 2013 at 12:45 AM ---------- Previous post was 25th April 2013 at 11:53 PM ----------
leginag said:
Looked at the GN8 Wi-Fi today, and where my Galaxy Tab fit easily into my pockets, the GN8 just barely squeezed into it. Add a case and I doubt it will fit. Which is a big shame.
I do wish they had slimmed down the bezels. Doesn't really need to be so big =/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah. Sorry, mate. It's frustrating because it just needs to be trimmed by 5mm or so.
I suspect the extra bezel all around is to fit more battery...which is important, but...
People, the bezel size is to combat erroneous touches while holding the device. Seriously, its one of the BIGGEST gripes about the iPad Mini, and I, for one, greatly welcome smartly sized bezels. There is literally no reason to slim the bezels on a tablet.
bbfoto said:
^Agreed. Personally, I don't think that the $399 price is too much for what the Note 8.0 WiFi offers. But I think in the general public's eyes, $399 IS too much. They don't understand the unique features, they just think, "it's an 8-inch tablet with a bunch of icons/apps" and they are probably more familiar with iOS apps.
First thing they see when comparing at the store...the build quality compared to the lower priced iPad Mini. In their head..."why should I pay more for the 8-inch Hyundai when I can have a beautiful 8-inch Porsche for less?" The iPad Mini is thinner, it's smaller overall, and sleeker. It's an Apple. Oh, and it's $70 less.
$330 and $400 are a big difference in the consumer's mind. Again, they don't compare the unique features, they are both just 8" screens with icons. (We know know the real difference.)
I think $349.99 would have been the better price for the Note 8.0. It's still quite a bit below that psychological "$400" mark. And then people could rationalize that, "okay, I'll get a slightly sharper screen and a stylus for just $20 more than the iPad Mini. Cool." But then there's that build quality/premium feel of the iPad Mini. Is the S-Pen enough to make a difference? "Hell, the kids will probably just lose the stylus anyway!" So iPad Mini it is.
Unfortunately, at least in the stores, Samsung doesn't do a good job of making the unique features known.
Research shows that A LOT of people use their tablets while watching TV. If a store display (especially at Best Buy where they sell a boatload of HDTVs) demonstrated the Note 8.0 IR Blaster as the [email protected] Universal Remote that it is, I think that a lot of people would have that "Holy Sheit" moment..."this is awesome, we could get rid of all of our stupid remotes!"..."just wait 'til the guys see this at our next Monday Night Football GTG!" And how many of us have TVs in our bedroom, and also use our tablets to read while in bed? Just another use case scenario.
...anyway, I would LOVE to see a 1080P, non-pentile Super-AMOLED Plus display in a Note 8.0 with thinner side bezels! Samsung, are you listening?
---------- Post added 26th April 2013 at 12:45 AM ---------- Previous post was 25th April 2013 at 11:53 PM ----------
Yeah. Sorry, mate. It's frustrating because it just needs to be trimmed by 5mm or so.
I suspect the extra bezel all around is to fit more battery...which is important, but...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's really time to drop all of the Ipad Mini price comparisons. For starters, the Note 8 is not an Ipad Mini competitor and was never intended to be. If you are going to use the automotive comparison, then the iPad mini is a car and the Note 8 is more of an SUV. Two different vehicles that serve 2 different needs, but can overlap if necessary.
If Samsung wanted the make an Ipad mini competitor, they would have, but the Note 8 is in it's own category. As far as the price, you have no idea about the actual profit margins of the Note 8, so you can't possibly decide the appropriate price point.
To put it simply, if all you want is Youtube and Angry Birds, this tablet is not for you. This tablet is only for people who have use for the Wacom stylus and can justify the price point for it. It is not going to steal any sales away from the ipad and was never intended to.
bbfoto said:
First thing they see when comparing at the store...the build quality compared to the lower priced iPad Mini. In their head..."why should I pay more for the 8-inch Hyundai when I can have a beautiful 8-inch Porsche for less?" The iPad Mini is thinner, it's smaller overall, and sleeker. It's an Apple. Oh, and it's $70 less.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But what if the Hyundai actually has more horsepower and more features? The iPad Mini only has 512 MB RAM compared to the N8's 2 GB. And of course the N8 has the pen digitizer and removable SD. Not important to everybody, but these features are really important to others.
And of course its a completely different OS and ecosystem. The iPad, any iPad, was never a serious contender to me. Ever.
Now of course many of your points are right when talking about the average Joe (who could probably care less about what I just said, if they even understood it at all). But the N8 is pretty clearly aimed at a niche market of enthusiasts, not the masses. If average Joe just wants a cheap gimped device as an introduction to the tablet world, they can buy a Galaxy Tab 2 7.0. The N8 is aimed at those that want more.
---------- Post added at 09:26 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:24 AM ----------
sputnik767 said:
It's really time to drop all of the Ipad Mini price comparisons. For starters, the Note 8 is not an Ipad Mini competitor and was never intended to be. If you are going to use the automotive comparison, then the iPad mini is a car and the Note 8 is more of an SUV. Two different vehicles that serve 2 different needs, but can overlap if necessary.
If Samsung wanted the make an Ipad mini competitor, they would have, but the Note 8 is in it's own category. As far as the price, you have no idea about the actual profit margins of the Note 8, so you can't possibly decide the appropriate price point.
To put it simply, if all you want is Youtube and Angry Birds, this tablet is not for you. This tablet is only for people who have use for the Wacom stylus and can justify the price point for it. It is not going to steal any sales away from the ipad and was never intended to.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well put. We are clearly on the same page.
---------- Post added at 09:35 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:26 AM ----------
As far as the title of this thread, not everyone likes AMOLED. I've seen many folks on XDA comment that they find the artificially saturated colors and contrast on AMOLED screens nearly unbearable, and can't stand AMOLED (and actually avoid it on purpose). Of course, its a matter of individual taste and preference. I personally don't feel strongly either way, and think the screen on the N8 is just great.
As for "why", I assume that Sammy saved a few bucks using TFT instead, to offset the price of the pen digitizer and keep the price where they wanted it.
I've said my piece about the screen several times, it is what it is and not good enough for my needs, but for those mentioning hand feel/weight I'd highly suggest picking up a demo at the store. I think that's one of the best things about it. It's weighted about perfectly for a device like this. Any more pocketable and you're basically back at the note 2.
sputnik767 said:
It's really time to drop all of the Ipad Mini price comparisons. For starters, the Note 8 is not an Ipad Mini competitor and was never intended to be. If you are going to use the automotive comparison, then the iPad mini is a car and the Note 8 is more of an SUV. Two different vehicles that serve 2 different needs, but can overlap if necessary.
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No No your completely wrong, the ipad mini is like a set of directional summer tires rated vr with some cool tread pattern and the extended road hazard warranty. The note 8.0 is like a big set of nobby mud tires, maybe 35's.
That explains the difference perfectly........
OH wait, no its more like the ipad mini is a strawberry ice cream cake, with flowers on it, and maybe a little toy on the top, and the galaxy note is more like a chocolate shake, with sprinkles and whipped cream....
No, wait I have a better one.......
The ipad mini is like my roommate Ernies rubber ducky, and the galaxy note 8.0 is like my pet pigeon Bernise.
chakra said:
No No your completely wrong, the ipad mini is like a set of directional summer tires rated vr with some cool tread pattern and the extended road hazard warranty. The note 8.0 is like a big set of nobby mud tires, maybe 35's.
That explains the difference perfectly........
OH wait, no its more like the ipad mini is a strawberry ice cream cake, with flowers on it, and maybe a little toy on the top, and the galaxy note is more like a chocolate shake, with sprinkles and whipped cream....
No, wait I have a better one.......
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I can see this new device forum is already shaping up with some comic relief!
Always a good things, as these discussions can often get a little too serious . . .
^Your One X (and now the HTC One) have one of the best displays I've ever seen. Being a photographer, I ultimately prefer neutral & natural color balance, and a wide color gamut. But some days the deep blacks, contrast, and color of my Captivate, SGS2, Note1, Note 2, and Tab 7.7 screens wow me.
LOL at the responses. You guys are a passionate group, and for good reason.
As stated in my posts, my comments were clearly regarding the Average Joe consumer and how it relates to Samsung's and Android's market share and perception in the general consumer marketplace. We here at xda are a different breed.
I'm an Android user through and through. My last iDevice was the iPhone 3G. I have way more beefs regarding Apple products, and that's why I am here. But Apple does some important things right that Samsung would do well to pay attention to (if they expect more attention and market share from the general public, and increased admiration from us).
Being that the Note 8.0 and the iPad Mini are the only 8" tabs in the marketplace, I would argue that they are if fact competitors. Yes, the IPM and N8 are aimed at different users, but do they have to be? The N8 can do everything and (way) more compared to the IPM, so if the pricing and build quality were more comparable, there would be no reason to buy the Apple product. I'd like to see Samsung succeed.
I spent many hours over several DAYS at Best Buy comparing the Note 8.0 and all of the tablets. I planned to drop some serious money for the International 3G (phone) Note 8.0, and I wanted to be sure that it would be the right choice beforehand. It is.
But it was interesting watching the other shoppers going down the line of tablets on display, and how much time they would pause at each model for a minute or two before ultimately settling at the iPad table for 5-10 minutes or more. The Note 8.0 probably received the least screen time. A lot of people stopped, played, and looked, but as soon as they saw the price tag, off they went.
I love all of my Samsung products. They are far more useful, versatile, and productive for me. But like many, I yearn for better build quality for my money.
Just my observations. I'll leave the dead horse be now with the IPM comparisons. Thanks for all of the responses...ALL good points!
Oh. @chakra, you should be pleased, I do QUESTION EVERYTHING.
---------- Post added at 11:37 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:06 AM ----------
guthrien said:
I've said my piece about the screen several times, it is what it is and not good enough for my needs, but for those mentioning hand feel/weight I'd highly suggest picking up a demo at the store. I think that's one of the best things about it. It's weighted about perfectly for a device like this. Any more pocketable and you're basically back at the note 2.
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I completely agree regarding the weight/balance in hand. And given its resolution, I was actually quite impressed by the screen.
How about this? Just make the bezel narrower or very minimal ON ONE (long) SIDE, so the screen is offset to one side...Get rid of the capacitive and home buttons altogether...put them on the screen so they rotate with the device's orientation, or just use gestures instead.
That way if you are left- or right-handed you will always have a comfortable bezel to grip in portrait mode, and it won't matter in landscape. The FFC might be a slight issue, but it could "auto-rotate" as well.
I absolutely love the 8" screen size, and the weight/balance of this device. But I also prefer a device that can go with me everywhere without any extra work to carry it. Just my opinion, of course...trying to get down to one device.
bbfoto said:
But it was interesting watching the other shoppers going down the line of tablets on display, and how much time they would pause at each model for a minute or two before ultimately settling at the iPad table for 5-10 minutes or more. The Note 8.0 probably received the least screen time. A lot of people stopped, played, and looked, but as soon as they saw the price tag, off they went.
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Of course price is a factor. But the Apple brand is a big one, too. I have no doubt that many (or even most) of these folks you're talking about would still have opted for the iPad Mini, even if it cost more than the Note 8.
Average Joe probably weighs brand reputation and price over everything else, by far. They usually don't have the knowledge to even understand the features, specs, or even difference in build quality and screens. But they will often just buy a brand they know has a good reputation. Apple very much wins in this category. Although Sammy is gaining traction. I'm finally starting to hear people mention "Galaxy S" more and more in casual conversations about smartphones, instead of just "iPhone iPhone iPhone".
I'm with you on the build quality, or what some call industrial design. Sammy's penchant for plastics has turned me off to their products for a long time. Their build quality is still very good. I'd even still consider the Note 8 a premium look and feel. It would just be a whole league greater if they used higher quality materials (but also probably heavier, and maybe thicker). The aluminum body on my old HTC Flyer is probably the only thing I miss about it, versus the Note 8. But HTC is staying out of the Android tablet market for now (I'm hearing they are planning Windows 8 tablets), which is one of the primary reasons I've gone to Sammy.
I really like the screen of Note 8 even the contrast isn't unlimited as Note 2, but it does not have "burn in" problem.
In addition, Quadrant is good as Note 2 and the battery is pretty decent.
^^Well said, redpoint73, and agree on all points.
I'll take LCD over the psuedo-HD Pentile AMOLED screens anyday.
Unless deep contrast (at the sake of true color at times), LED just doesn't match LCD. Just like the big displays, LED is still behind LCD & plasma in overall quality of picture & clarity.
It is great for battery life, LED, but I use the Note 8 in sunlight frequently & while it does not have quite the brightness control of the Note 10.1, it is still pretty good.
GSLEON3 said:
I'll take LCD over the psuedo-HD Pentile AMOLED screens anyday.
Unless deep contrast (at the sake of true color at times), LED just doesn't match LCD. Just like the big displays, LED is still behind LCD & plasma in overall quality of picture & clarity.
It is great for battery life, LED, but I use the Note 8 in sunlight frequently & while it does not have quite the brightness control of the Note 10.1, it is still pretty good.
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Don't compare this AMOLED to others you might have seen - have you even seen the Super AMOLED "PLUS" screen on the 7.7? The "Plus" means it was the only implementation of AMOLED at the time that was not prone to the pentile issues observed on many other AMOLED displays. Do some web searches and you'll see that claim backed up if you can't get in front of one. Everyone who's seen that screen in real life loves it and "over saturated" is a complaint made by no one that's used or owned it. Everything looks more "lush" on this screen and if the Note 8 display looks drab in comparison.
I've been carrying both my Note 8 and 7.7 around and have put them both up for people to compare and it's the 7.7 screen preferred every time. If they really were trying to sell a device that would compete and sell well with regular users, all they would have to do is put that same screen as the 7.7 in and put it side by side with the competition - regular folk who haven't fallen for the "over saturation" sheepspeak would agree the screen was better.
Also I have a mount on my dash for the tablets and you can definitely tell that the 7.7 is easier to read n the full sun than the Note 8.
rEVOLVE said:
Don't compare this AMOLED to others you might have seen - have you even seen the Super AMOLED "PLUS" screen on the 7.7? The "Plus" means it was the only implementation of AMOLED at the time that was not prone to the pentile issues observed on many other AMOLED displays. Do some web searches and you'll see that claim backed up if you can't get in front of one. Everyone who's seen that screen in real life loves it and "over saturated" is a complaint made by no one that's used or owned it. Everything looks more "lush" on this screen and if the Note 8 display looks drab in comparison.
I've been carrying both my Note 8 and 7.7 around and have put them both up for people to compare and it's the 7.7 screen preferred every time. If they really were trying to sell a device that would compete and sell well with regular users, all they would have to do is put that same screen as the 7.7 in and put it side by side with the competition - regular folk who haven't fallen for the "over saturation" sheepspeak would agree the screen was better.
Also I have a mount on my dash for the tablets and you can definitely tell that the 7.7 is easier to read n the full sun than the Note 8.
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I cannot speak for the 7.7, but as for just about every other LED Samsung has released including the GS3, washed out blues & unnatural white or lighter pastel type colors is in fact my opinion, which is not based on what anyone else may say or think, but what I have experienced with the multitude of devices at my disposal.
Also, I said "deep contrast" & "at times at the sake of true color", not washed out, just unnatural color, like you see on the S3 vs the HTC One X. I don't know what in the hell you mean by "fallen for the sheepspeak", but what I said is exactly my experience with the devices I have or have had. One last bone of contention, who the heck says "sheepspeak"? I only see cobbled together words like that in Apple/Android rants by fanatics, folks that think Jesus will flood the world if everyone doesn't repent & swear allegiance to the giant Android/Apple deity. ,,!,,