Database Users

iphone 5 fail

sorry guys but i had to share this and show you how dumb people can be. and will buy anything with an apple on it. sheep. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rdIWKytq_q4&feature=youtube_gdata_player
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Hey at least they left the dinosaur and finally put 4g on it.. like every other phone in the world... >.> idiots
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Read these posts here... I think it covers everything there is to know about Apple's yet greatest achievement [NOT] lol :laugh: Thanks EViL
-EViL-KoNCEPTz- said:
IPhone 5 = identical to every other iPhone with a few new apps. Same size screen, same stupid glass case that's designed to break as soon as u drop it, and isn't covered under warranty. Still no 4g. The only new innovation is throwing some new apps on a device changing the internal specs(barely) slapping a 5 on the end of the name and reselling the iFans the same crap they already own for the upteenth time.
We are legion, for we are many.
Sent from the DarkSide of the GalaXy with a MEK device
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-EViL-KoNCEPTz- said:
Samsung holds the patents to 90% of the LTE technology and they haven't been able to come to a licensing agreement with apple, without that agreement the iPhone will never have LTE. And every android device stomps any iPhone hands down we already have screens ranging from 4"-5"+ we have quadcore processors, 2gb ram, expandable storage. Tell me what exactly apple has to compete with Android again oh yeah nothing that's why they keep suing Google and every device manufacturer trying to slow them down and quell the competition, cause they can't keep up. Oh and SIRI? Samsung holds the patent on the technology, and has filed suit to block the import and sales of iPhones and iPads in the US. You know their junk is made in china with slave labor right? If you support apple you support inhumane working conditions for both adults and children who are forced to work in Chinese sweatshops, and a large portion of the workers are political prisoners, even the children who are deemed regime dissidents because of their parents political beliefs and are then used as slave labor in factories and work camps. And they charge ridiculous amounts of money for products that cost them less than $50 per device to have manufactured and that includes the parts and labor :thumbdown: apple is a complete fail, and I would never support a company like that financially or otherwise. Sorry I'd use a 1992 Zach Morris brick phone before I'd ever use and iPhone. You couldn't pay me all the money in the world to be caught dead with their junk.
We are legion, for we are many.
Sent from the DarkSide of the GalaXy with a MEK device
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-EViL-KoNCEPTz- said:
The glass case isn't covered under warranty when you drop it and shatter the case. And iPhone may not even be sold in the US its already been pulled from shelves in south Korea and the jury is returning verdict on US injunction today. And no as of now apple has no license to use LTE radios, Samsung hasn't been able to come to an arrangement with them and Samsung holds the patent on 90% of LTE radio technology. Without getting the license the will be no LTE. That's if they can even import anymore devices into the US after the verdict in court today. Waiting now to see what the jury said, they already found apple guilty of infringement of samsungs wireless tech patents, now its down to the import injunction to see if they have to stop importing devices into the US and pull the iPad and iPhones that are here off of shelves
We are legion, for we are many.
Sent from the DarkSide of the GalaXy with a MEK device
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That's sad.
Devices:
Evo 4g: Cm7 or Jellybean
Evo Shift: cm7 or jellybean
Optimus S: AOSP (ICS)
Questions? I'd love to help!

Im not a iphone fan nor android im in beween. OK I'm really confuse with iiPhone 5 running Lte. Because from what u stating that Samsung owns 90% lte pat. So why on other news i read saying iPhone 5 have 4 lte connection.
Here is link to site i read
http://www.valuewalk.com/2012/09/heres-the-price-list-for-an-unlocked-iphone-5/
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people always want the latest and greatest. it doesn't matter if the improvements are slim or nonexistent. it is all about being the one with the newest device regardless of the quality. that is why they can get away with charging such a ridiculous amount for a device with minimal improvements.

This is a perfect example of consumer idiocy. Fanboys are truly brainwashed...
http://youtu.be/rdIWKytq_q4
Sent from my Rock 'em Sock 'em Robot

culua said:
Im not a iphone fan nor android im in beween. OK I'm really confuse with iiPhone 5 running Lte. Because from what u stating that Samsung owns 90% lte pat. So why on other news i read saying iPhone 5 have 4 lte connection.
Here is link to site i read
http://www.valuewalk.com/2012/09/heres-the-price-list-for-an-unlocked-iphone-5/
Sent from my PC36100 using xda app-developers app
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They came to an agreement to allow apple to use the lte radios, at a cost of 65$ per radio per device. Compare that to the $15 they charge other manufacturers to lease the radios for their devices. That's why the new off contract price for a 64gb iFail 5 is 600$ and the 128gb is 800$ and the only difference between the 4s and 5 is a 4" screen vs 3.5" adding a 5th row of icons and the lte radio. Big win, :thumbdown: its SoC was barely upgraded, and 70% of the hardware in the phone is made by Samsung, SoC, radios, screen and logic board the only thing not made by Samsung in the housing, and the device is assembled in factories whose conditions violate international labor standards and are akin to slavery. Apple is taking alot of heat in the international market over their labor practices, south Korea and several European countries have outright banned the import and sale of any apple products, meaning you can't even buy one online because they will be seized at the import point. If the Google/Motorola patent suit against apple goes thru the same will happen here in the US and they won't be able to import the devices from the Chinese sweatshop/slave labor camps where that crap is assembled
We are legion, for we are many.
Sent from the DarkSide of the GalaXy with a MEK device

Funny and true.
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It's very hard to explain to iphone fans why the iphone 5 sucks. They haven't got a clue what NFC really is, and only think it is used to make contactless payments......... :silly:
They forget about the other useful stuff NFC can do.
Same goes for DLNA, they think only Apple can stream wireless video via airplay as they have no F-ing clue what DLNA :silly:
And to top it off, they think that reversible plug is a gods gift and think microUSB is only used for charging....... LOL

culua said:
Im not a iphone fan nor android im in beween. OK I'm really confuse with iiPhone 5 running Lte. Because from what u stating that Samsung owns 90% lte pat. So why on other news i read saying iPhone 5 have 4 lte connection.
Here is link to site i read
http://www.valuewalk.com/2012/09/heres-the-price-list-for-an-unlocked-iphone-5/
Sent from my PC36100 using xda app-developers app
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Click to collapse
It's because that claim of Samsung owning 90% of LTE patents simply isn't accurate. If you look at the report here from 2011 Samsung had amassed about 284 patents or about 9% of the total. According to this article dated earlier this month Samsung is up to 819 but that's still only about 12% of the total. As you can see if that second link, Apple hasn't let itself out in the cold on LTE patents, developing or acquiring 434. We'll have to wait and see if it's enough to fight off a suit from Samsung, if Samsung ever actually files it.
---------- Post added at 03:03 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:20 AM ----------
-EViL-KoNCEPTz- said:
They came to an agreement to allow apple to use the lte radios, at a cost of 65$ per radio per device. Compare that to the $15 they charge other manufacturers to lease the radios for their devices.
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Do you have a source for this? I've found no evidence of any agreement and I can't really see any regulators in any country allowing such a wide price discrimination on such licenses.
its SoC was barely upgraded, and 70% of the hardware in the phone is made by Samsung, SoC, radios, screen and logic board the only thing not made by Samsung in the housing
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As there have been no tear downs for the iPhone 5 as of yet, there is no way to know any of this. I've seen speculation that A6 is based on a Cortex A15, which would put it in the same class as the S4 Snapdragon that powers the Evo 4G LTE and the US version of the Galaxy SIII. But that's still just speculation until it's actually torn down.
and the device is assembled in factories whose conditions violate international labor standards and are akin to slavery. Apple is taking alot of heat in the international market over their labor practices, south Korea and several European countries have outright banned the import and sale of any apple products, meaning you can't even buy one online because they will be seized at the import point. If the Google/Motorola patent suit against apple goes thru the same will happen here in the US and they won't be able to import the devices from the Chinese sweatshop/slave labor camps where that crap is assembled
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That same factory is used by Motorola, Amazon, Dell, HP and others, including Samsung. Chances are, if you have an Android phone, it was probably made in China.
That South Korea ban may still be in place but I can't imagine it's any more complicated than appeasing Samsung in their home country. As for the European one, that was a suit in Germany where Motorola won an injunction against Apple last December, but that injunction lifted and dismissed in February.

Best line ever: "Apple: Doing Nothing and Calling It Innovation!"

You know what fails apple fanboys whorship them like they are god here's a link to show how low they go.
http://news.cnet.com/8301-17852_3-57513782-71/apple-fanboys-fight-back-against-samsung/
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Samsung Galaxy Note 10.1 LTE gets Jelly Bean plus VoLTE

Samsung has started rolling JB update for the LTE version of Note in South Korea.
Slight correction Samsung is not rolling out JB update but LTE Tablet with JB by default in Korea with voice calling feature
Please see this article
http://www.slashgear.com/samsung-galaxy-note-10-1-lte-gets-jelly-bean-plus-volte-19257512/

Thats what I would have expected, first.

I think Samsung is making a mistake not having JB rolled out by this weekend. As shoppers start buying for the holidays and compare devices not having JB will be a deterrent to sales. Especially as consumers do research to scan reviews and status of updates and see Samsung history.

rap6388 said:
I think Samsung is making a mistake not having JB rolled out by this weekend. As shoppers start buying for the holidays and compare devices not having JB will be a deterrent to sales. Especially as consumers do research to scan reviews and status of updates and see Samsung history.
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If consumers listen to reviews they wont but the note 10.1 JB or no JB - most of the reviews were (incorrectly) terrible - they all ran down the note.

sgtstress said:
If consumers listen to reviews they wont but the note 10.1 JB or no JB - most of the reviews were (incorrectly) terrible - they all ran down the note.
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It isn't quite a straight forward was that. The Note 10.1 definitely is a niche device exclusively for those who need a stylus for input. for everyone else other tablets deliver better value. And that is a pretty fair conclusion

rap6388 said:
I think Samsung is making a mistake not having JB rolled out by this weekend. As shoppers start buying for the holidays and compare devices not having JB will be a deterrent to sales. Especially as consumers do research to scan reviews and status of updates and see Samsung history.
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Other than those on XDA, most people won't know the difference between ICS and JB and won't hold off buying for that reason.

aypanthony said:
Other than those on XDA, most people won't know the difference between ICS and JB and won't hold off buying for that reason.
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They will because when they type in a google search posts like this will come up.

rap6388 said:
They will because when they type in a google search posts like this will come up.
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No, he has a point. The average consumer doesn't think like we do.
Our minds: "Does it have JB? Did Samsung state it would? When? How much ram? What's the processor? Screen res.." Etc..
Humans: "ooh this one has a cool pen you can write with and it's cheaper than the iPad. I like the white one."
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus

I agree most of the people wont even know what is the difference between various processor or the screen resolution they will check the size and they will check may be for a retina display though most of them wont even know what it is they will only check bec of the marketing hype created by apple. Some may have herd about JB, ICS, GB but very few of them actually would know what they are.
Thats one of the reasons IPAD sells in so many numbers

Darkstriker said:
It isn't quite a straight forward was that. The Note 10.1 definitely is a niche device exclusively for those who need a stylus for input. for everyone else other tablets deliver better value. And that is a pretty fair conclusion
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I agree up to the point of "exclusively need a stylus for input." The multitasking capabilities of the Note and it's role as a creativity and creation device set it apart from all the rest of the tablets that are primarily for consumption. I'd be far less enthused about the pen if it weren't for the other features centered around those things. And things like Quick Gestures, Air View, handwriting recognition (much improved in JB) and hover aren't enough on their own to separate the Note from other tablets but being included do make the Note special. What makes it a niche device is that the average person won't understand those benefits (or possibly even care) and the drones at Staples, Walmart, and Best Buy won't either to help sell the uniqueness of the Note. But it came out in Samsung's Q3 earnings that it sold 2MM units in two months which is the same run rate Asus declared for the N7. So if that pace keeps up it'll be a pretty big niche that needed filling.

Yes I think even Samsung are thrilled with the sales figures and hence the LTE boost which should increase the numbers even more because apart from Ipad I think very few tablets that support LTE dont n10 does that

BarryH_GEG said:
But it came out in Samsung's Q3 earnings that it sold 2MM units in two months which is the same run rate Asus declared for the N7. So if that pace keeps up it'll be a pretty big niche that needed filling.
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Careful with the Numbers, they can be misleading. On a few countries, mine included, Samsung gave 30% discount on selected top range devices including the note on september 30. That gave a huge boost to Sales but does not reflect what the consumers actually prefere. I was going for a Asus TF300 when i heard about this and for the same amount i went for the note.
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Dante Leonheart said:
Careful with the Numbers, they can be misleading. On a few countries, mine included, Samsung gave 30% discount on selected top range devices including the note on september 30. That gave a huge boost to Sales but does not reflect what the consumers actually prefere. I was going for a Asus TF300 when i heard about this and for the same amount i went for the note.
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Huh? Q3 is July, August, and September. So 2MM were sold in August and September. And price is arbitrary. If you were looking at another $299+ tablet and bought a Note you still bought a Note. You're actually contradicting yourself. You said it was a "niche" product but you bought it instead of a mid-level mainstream product because of price. If because of market conditions the 16GB Wi-Fi Note ends up being permanently priced at $399 and sells well against other tablets there's no asterisk to be added to the sales volume numbers. People buying a Note can only come from two places. People buying their first tablet or people with another tablet attracted to the Note because of its unique features. Either way (just like you) they are picking the Note out of sea of competitors including iOS and now W8. A sale is a sale regardless of how it happens. The question about whether that volume will continue is a good one though. Products tend to sell better when their launched so we'll have to see what Q4's numbers look like to see if the Note's initial success is sustained; especially with more competition (W8 RT and the N10).
Here's a chart of Q3 2012 tablet market share. Look at Samsung's year-over-year growth. They grew 325% with the high-end Note while Asus grew 243% pushing the low-end N7. Even if the Note sells 2MM a quarter that's almost three times their combined tablet sales for Q3 2011. So it would appear that they've created another (big) niche like they did with the introduction of the "phablet" last year.
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BarryH_GEG said:
Huh? Q3 is July, August, and September. So 2MM were sold in August and September. And price is arbitrary. If you were looking at another $299+ tablet and bought a Note you still bought a Note. You're actually contradicting yourself. You said it was a "niche" product but you bought it instead of a mid-level mainstream product because of price. If because of market conditions the 16GB Wi-Fi Note ends up being permanently priced at $399 and sells well against other tablets there's no asterisk to be added to the sales volume numbers. People buying a Note can only come from two places. People buying their first tablet or people with another tablet attracted to the Note because of its unique features. Either way (just like you) they are picking the Note out of sea of competitors including iOS and now W8. A sale is a sale regardless of how it happens. The question about whether that volume will continue is a good one though. Products tend to sell better when their launched so we'll have to see what Q4's numbers look like to see if the Note's initial success is sustained; especially with more competition (W8 RT and the N10).
Here's a chart of Q3 2012 tablet market share. Look at Samsung's year-over-year growth. They grew 325% with the high-end Note while Asus grew 243% pushing the low-end N7. Even if the Note sells 2MM a quarter that's almost three times their combined tablet sales for Q3 2011. So it would appear that they've created another (big) niche like they did with the introduction of the "phablet"
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I see your point. And i agree. Nevertheless what i meant was if that promotion didn't happen i would not go for the note which was priced at 699€. Neither many of the people i know who did the same. People who couldn't afford it otherwise, bought it, expanding the niche further than it was supposed to. Only the Q4 sales will tell us if the promotion had any impact. On a side note i have no knowledge of economics and markets, this is just my opinion as customer and observing person. Might just be a lot of nonsense.
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Those in US should expect the LTE version by year end as per some reports. Thats good new for them.
For countries like India where I am it is irrelevent as there is no LTE network and in few places where it is it is way expensive

HTC financial woes

i hope the One really helps HTC, but the delays are doing no favours
http://uk.reuters.com/article/2013/04/08/us-htc-earnings-idUKBRE93706620130408

I don't know what the fuss is all about. They are always posting profits. Less profits yes, but they are always in the black. Many companies go for years posting losses quarter after quarter. HTC has no problems as long as they are in profit each quarter.

Would now be a great time to buy stocks in HTC?

simba2585 said:
i hope the One really helps HTC, but the delays are doing no favours
http://uk.reuters.com/article/2013/04/08/us-htc-earnings-idUKBRE93706620130408
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I hope this thread gets locked, threads likes this really do XDA no favours.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2

aydc said:
I don't know what the fuss is all about. They are always posting profits. Less profits yes, but they are always in the black. Many companies go for years posting losses quarter after quarter. HTC has no problems as long as they are in profit each quarter.
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Public companies like HTC serve their shareholders who buy stock in a company because they feel that stock is going to appreciate over time increasing the size of their investment (profit). Companies reward investors by growing sales, profit margins, and generating cash that's used for reinvestment to further their growth and increasing the market capitalization of the company. Doing so makes their stock appreciate which rewards the investors that placed their faith in them. This is HTC’s 2-year stock performance as of today.
In February, HTC revised their Q1 2013 guidance down to a level so low that it spooked analysts to the point there was a run on HTC's stock that triggered stop-sales on the TW exchange it's listed on (twice) because the amount of volume being sold and the stock's price decline triggered electronic safeguards. The revenue guidance HTC provided for Q1 that caused the stock fall was between NT$50 billion and NT$60 billion. Those are numbers provided by HTC less than eight weeks ago. The number they actually posted today was NT$42.8 billion. So not only did they miss the low-end of their own guidance they've demonstrated an inability to forecast their business. The latter's actually more troubling to analysts than the miss in revenue. And keep in mind that revenue is accounted for when devices are shipped to resellers; not when they are purchased by end consumers. So HTC's shipping rate is what caused the miss, not the sales or popularity of the One. And that they didn't know within an eight week span how deep their component issues were causing them to issue erroneous guidance is indeed troubling.
Operating margin (profit) was 1/10 of 1% of revenue for the first three months of 2013. You don't have to be a finance expert to know that's not sustainable. And the One's delay has put it right up against the launch of the SGS4 which will be accompanied by wider distribution and Samsung's gazillion dollar marketing budget. Apple's also launching the iP5S and possibly a lower-priced device in June according to analyst's speculation. Neither of those things is going to be good for HTC's full-year revenue. The analysts expect HTC to benefit from the One's sales in Q2 but that they'll decline again in the remaining quarters of the year. 30 out of 33 analysts have a "sell" rating on HTC's stock.
Their financial position was 25% better than today last August when the Taiwanese government began talks of bailing HTC out rather than letting them fail. HTC cannot continue to exist the way it does today and a single positive quarter based on the success of single device can't reverse their fortunes enough to change that. So it's highly unlikely they'll go out of business but some type of government intervention accompanied by a restructuring or merger or JV with another company are pretty much a given.
With stiff competition from Apple and Samsung, HTC has posted some less than stellar numbers the past few quarters. The company is still profitable, but its decline in sales and revenue have contributed significantly to Taiwan’s five months of decline in exports which saw a drop in July of 11.6% from a year earlier. HTC may be about to receive help from the Taiwanese government as it looks to turn its fortunes around after slipping away in the smartphone market recently. According to the Commercial Times, Taiwan's Central Bank Governor, Perng Fai-nan raised the issue during a meeting with government officials, suggesting it stepped in and offered assistance to the manufacturer. Perng noted that HTC's declining sales had had a knock-on effect with Taiwan's exports, which have also witnessed a decline in recent months. During the meeting, Perng apparently went on to say that the financial status of HTC is "of vital importance to the islands' gross domestic product". The Taiwanese government is taking this issue seriously, with an unnamed official reportedly saying the Ministry of Economic Affairs is already considering various ways to help out HTC.
http://www.techradar.com/us/news/ph...htc-could-receive-government-bail-out-1091781​These numbers show the production shortage really is that bad, and my sense is that it won’t get much better in the second quarter because many of those issues continue,” said Dennis Chan, an analyst at Yuanta Securities Co. in Taipei, who recommends selling the stock. “For smartphones, timing is everything and the delay means they lose that timing.”
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-...w-profit-after-latest-smartphone-delayed.html​Profit is likely to recover in the second quarter as HTC One sales increase, said Daiwa Securities analyst Birdy Lu. The company has been touting the camera's performance in low light, and plans to more than double advertising spending under a new marketing chief. "HTC's whole schedule was thrown into disarray because of the HTC One, which meant it didn't have the revenue coming in but still had a lot of fixed costs," Mr. Lu said. "There will be some improvement this quarter in terms of the bottom line, but they still face a lot of competition."
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB100...38196.html?mod=WSJ_hp_LEFTWhatsNewsCollection​

htc is dying.
i bet samsung and apple are eager to buy htc for their patents and maybe blueprints

I'm sitting here fully perplexed
some of you call me HTC biggest fanboy
and yet in all honestly i dont care their financial woes
yes if they go away it will be a loss to the smartphone especially since they are the most unique OEM
but really why should I care all I want is the bloody device and 18months of support, the quality of the device and the software is guaranteed so why should I care about their money again?
honestly if anything Samsung's monopoly and money making is not really reflecting in better quality to the product
I prefer a zealous challenged OEM over a relaxed arrogant one

hamdir said:
some of you call me HTC biggest fanboy
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But always in a "good" way. You've helped more people than 90% of those on XDA (including me).
honestly if anything Samsung's monopoly and money making is not really reflecting in better quality to the product
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Being huge doesn't guarantee continued success; at least not at the same historic velocity. Look what Samsung's success has done to Apple's stock. And with more cash in the bank than 2/3 of the world's countries one can't say Apple's not successful. Samsung can't get lazy because if they do there are too many people gunning for them. If Apple does introduce a lower-cost iPhone it's going to kick Samsung in the nuts. And both ZTE and Huawei are gunning for them too. Samsung's only got one target in its sites; Apple. What the other Android device makers do with a collective 30% market share between them doesn't concern them.
If you think about it, there are too many Android manufacturers right now. None on their own is going to catch Samsung because their lead is too wide. If a couple fail or merge leaving Samsung and two strong financially healthy Android competitors it would be much better for competition than having four vendors with fewer than 10% of the market each. The market controls smartphone selling prices. Samsung’s volume makes their component costs significantly lower than their competitors. None of those competitors can continue to offer the same features as Samsung at the same prices and maintain a decent level of profitability on far lower volume. So a “boutique” smartphone maker would end up selling a device with similar functionality at a higher retail price to sustain their profitability. I don’t think that would work that well in such a competitive market. As applies in the jungle, only the strong survive.

cjm1979 said:
I hope this thread gets locked, threads likes this really do XDA no favours.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2
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What's wrong with discussion ?
How is xda affected ?

BarryH_GEG said:
So a “boutique” smartphone maker would end up selling a device with similar functionality at a higher retail price to sustain their profitability. I don’t think that would work that well in such a competitive market. As applies in the jungle, only the strong survive.
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i would love HTC to go this way. willing to pay the premium
i think Sony and HTC are a good match but i dont know how that would work
anyway everyone is downsizing HTC than they really are, regardless of the profits/stock situation, its not really as "wallstreet" black or white as you guys think, its a lot more grey, the same can be said to many of the Asian brands as well
there is definitely a remedy being cooked for their problem but its not really what we are expecting

Great learning on this thread ,its great

@Barry,(didn't wanna quote the whole thesis), you're right, the HTC One success alone cannot bail HTC out of its financial trouble, especially with the iPhone and Galaxy S 4 coming out in Q3 and Q2 respectively. Either they're going to have to be bailed out or merge with another company. 2.8 million in profit is an All time low for HTC. The smartphone industry is a tough one, if you even have 1 off year, it will cost you big time. HTC had 2 off years.

I'm pretty optimistic about HTC with all the positive press on the One. I myself have owned every generation iphone and it took the HTC One to break the cycle. I have another friend who has always owned iphones and he just purchased four HTC Ones for his family and friends. This thing is going to be a dark horse. Samsung won't know what hit them.

grukko said:
I'm pretty optimistic about HTC with all the positive press on the One. I myself have owned every generation iphone and it took the HTC One to break the cycle. I have another friend who has always owned iphones and he just purchased four HTC Ones for his family and friends. This thing is going to be a dark horse. Samsung won't know what hit them.
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I'm in the same boat. Just want my Asda order now !!!

BarryH_GEG said:
Public companies like HTC serve their shareholders who buy stock in a company because they feel that stock is going to appreciate over time increasing the size of their investment (profit). Companies reward investors by growing sales, profit margins, and generating cash that's used for reinvestment to further their growth and increasing the market capitalization of the company. Doing so makes their stock appreciate which rewards the investors that placed their faith in them. This is HTC’s 2-year stock performance as of today.
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Then what would you say about Apple who have lost about $300 Billion worth of shareholder money in this time?
Or the fact that Galaxy S4 is being seen as Samsung's iphone5 moment! Apple played safe with iphone5 and historically it has broken sales records. Apple is flush with money, yet financial markets are unimpressed. Apple is no more innovative!
Samsung has done nothing with S4 but ape Apple iphone5 (that is to say play it safe). Interestingly the day S4 was announced by Samsung, Apple stock rose and investors cheered as S4 is NOT seen as much of a big threat to Apple as it could have been!
HTC is not gonna vanish anytime soon. just chillax. my company has been in huge losses for four years straight (we suppy chipsets to mobile makers) and yet are there (while we are much much smaller than even HTC). somebody always bails you out. Or otherwise also, all it takes is one blockbuster product and you are back in the game. Sony got that with XZ (they were in losses earlier). Very few companies are making any money in this business anyway but they are all hanging in there.

I don't know. I'm reconsidering what to buy after this.

joslicx said:
Then what would you say about Apple who have lost about $300 Billion worth of shareholder money in this time?
Or the fact that Galaxy S4 is being seen as Samsung's iphone5 moment! Apple played safe with iphone5 and historically it has broken sales records. Apple is flush with money, yet financial markets are unimpressed. Apple is no more innovative!
Samsung has done nothing with S4 but ape Apple iphone5 (that is to say play it safe). Interestingly the day S4 was announced by Samsung, Apple stock rose and investors cheered as S4 is NOT seen as much of a big threat to Apple as it could have been!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The difference is that apple and Samsung have big budgets and lots of money, they can afford some type of loss, HTC cannot. You said it yourself, apple played it safe with the iPhone 5 and yet they broke records sales. Do you think apple care about the lack of innovation? No, not as long as they keep selling they don't. For Samsung, the S4 is getting more preorders than the S3 in the UK alone, those are good signs and remember again both companies have lots of money and are coming from big quarters.
It isn't about them though, it's about HTC. They have a great product with the One, everybody in the tech world recognizes it so there is no doubt. The question is is it too late?

At the end of the day it will be Samsung and apple left. Rest will fold and fail. Of course Google will continue to release nexus line which is stock but always mediocre hardware.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I317 using xda premium

sabre31 said:
At the end of the day it will be Samsung and apple left. Rest will fold and fail. Of course Google will continue to release nexus line which is stock but always mediocre hardware.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I317 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Lets pray that it doesn't happen, it would really make me sick. I love choices and competition.

HTC and Sony should stay alive. Sony will be for sure because they're a strong company. Can't say the same about htc. It'd be a shame if they fail.

HTC in trouble

http://mobile.theverge.com/2013/7/30/4570490/htc-q3-2013-guidance-first-loss-on-record
Sent from my HTC One using XDA Premium HD app

such threads are not needed, we have been seeing them for years now
besides the verge always adds drama on top here is the proper press release
http://www.htc.com/www/about/newsroom/2013/2013-07-30-htc-reports-2013-second-quarter-results/
Taipei, Taiwan – July 30, 2013 – HTC Corporation (the Company, TWSE: 2498), a global leader in mobile innovation and design, today announced consolidated results for the Company and its subsidiaries for the second quarter of 2013.
2Q 2013 Results
HTC posted quarterly revenue of NT$70.7 billion, with gross margin of 23.2 % and operating margin of 1.5%. Net profit and EPS were NT$1.25 billion and NT$1.50, respectively.
“My leadership team continues to focus on execution,” said Peter Chou, CEO of HTC. “We are seeing expected results as we fill the channels and meet demand for the new HTC One. As we broaden our focus to include a new member of the HTC One family, the recently announced One mini, we are looking forward to delivering great products and results in 2H.”
HTC announced key appointments, including Jack Yang to president of South Asia, Sirpa Ikola to senior director of marketing for South Asia, and Lorain Wong to vice president of global PR.
As manufacturing ramped up, the US saw sequential growth in 2Q, as well as expansion in retail channels. EMEA saw renewed strength in major Western European markets and emerging countries.
Progress was observed across Asia. HTC gained market share in Taiwan, showing an improved presence in Hong Kong and warm reception of its products by consumers in Japan. In China, sales of HTC’s high-end models improved, while competition at the mid-tier and affordable intensified. In South Asia, the improvement of key operator relationships provides optimism about the region.
3Q 2013 Outlook
The Company’s outlook for the second quarter of 2013 is as follows:
- 3Q revenue is expected to be in the range of NT$50bn to NT$60bn
- Gross profit margin is expected to be in the range of 18% to 21%
- Operating margin is expected to be in the range of 0% to -8%
The new HTC One has performed well in the market, better than that of our hero products for the same period last year. We aim to extend the momentum as we enter into the second half of 2013. The new HTC One has also helped the company establish strong brand awareness and received numerous accolades as the world’s best smart phone. With the help of HTC One, we have regained superphone market share across major markets including China.
We also have plans underway to launch a range of innovative and competitive mid-tier products in the coming months. We hope to regain momentum and market share in these segments in Q4. This will address our challenge of mid-tier products competiveness
Our overall gross margin has been impacted by the relatively higher cost structure, lack of economy of scale and certain provisions needed to facilitate the clearance of aging products in the channel. Actions have been taken and we expect to see improvement in Q4
We are also optimizing our organization, including the improvement of management efficiency and effectiveness.
People, innovations, and technology are the core assets of HTC. We will continue to invest in innovations and technology, as well as retaining and rewarding our best talents. We look forward to a brighter future for HTC and continue to delight our customers with the best and most exciting products
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
you can see clearly that they state, the One is getting them more revenue then last year flagships, but they fall short on the low end side of sales, also they have extra expenses for this quarter causing the predicted loss waste of profit
- 3Q revenue is expected to be in the range of NT$50bn to NT$60bn
- Gross profit margin is expected to be in the range of 18% to 21%
- Operating margin is expected to be in the range of 0% to -8%
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

That's a pretty optimistic viewpoint you posted @hamdir. Almost makes it seem like HTC has turned the corner and poised for a rebound (which we all know is far from the truth). Here's Reuters not so optimistic perspective.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/07/30/us-htc-guidance-idUSBRE96T0B920130730

jlevy73 said:
That's a pretty optimistic viewpoint you posted @hamdir. Almost makes it seem like HTC has turned the corner and poised for a rebound (which we all know is far from the truth). Here's Reuters not so optimistic perspective.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/07/30/us-htc-guidance-idUSBRE96T0B920130730
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
what view? i posted HTC's own press release, they explain pretty clearly that their old inventory and lack of mid / low range competition will cause the predict lack of gross margins, tons of positive in the press release as well such as the HTC One performance and their improvements in Asian markets
meanwhile HTC is hard at work for the next flagship while you guys are busy with their profit or losses
does anyone still follows how much Nokia or Sony are loosing? or when they rebound?
Financial up and downs is normal for any company in my opinion and as far as im concerned it's non of my business, i have an amazing smartphone thanks to them and i don't need to contemplate their finance
here is something interesting from your own link
"Even a hero product can't save them," he said, adding that a partnership with another firm - a possibility CEO Peter Chou has said he would look at - was one of the few strong options open to HTC.
Although HTC is expected to soon launch the HTC One Mini, Samsung and Apple are also likely to announce their own new offerings later this year. A planned marketing blitz, which includes enlisting Robert Downey Jr. for a reported $12 million to star in its ad campaigns, is expected to weigh on profit margins.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
---------- Post added at 02:59 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:45 PM ----------
more details here
http://focustaiwan.tw/search/201307300029.aspx?q=htc
HTC said its overall gross margin has been impacted by the relatively higher cost structure, lack of economy of scale and certain provisions needed to facilitate the clearance of aging products in the channel.
Peter Chou, chief executive officer of HTC, said the company is taking action to reduce the cost of some key components used in its products, such as displays and mechanical parts, and that the improvements will be apparent in the fourth quarter.
In addition, HTC plans to launch a new range of mid-tier phones in the late third quarter or early fourth quarter to increase its economy of scale and leverage its product portfolio, Chou said.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
"We are bearish on the company in the longer term as it continues to struggle in the premium smartphone segment despite having a good product, while it remains uncompetitive in the low-end segment," Cheng said, who set a price target of NT$145 on the stock.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

Sony and HTC merge and we're gonna have a good time.

I Am Marino said:
Sony and HTC merge and we're gonna have a good time.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My dream

It's alot of over analyzing but it sure makes me worry. They can't even seem to pump put timely updates at this point... Even to their developer and GE editions. Can't blame the carriers holding up the updates on those...
Sent from my HTC One using xda premium

hamdir said:
Meanwhile HTC is hard at work for the next flagship while you guys are busy wit their profit or losses
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There's nothing in anything that's been posted that's even remotely uplifting regarding HTC's future.
The One's without question the best phone HTC's ever made yet revenue, profit, and market share are down.
Their guidance for Q3 is projected to be down 30% YOY and Q3 includes their projected revenue for the Mini, Max, and any other devices launching during the quarter.
HTC's cost base is f'd because of their loss of scale. They weren't a "tier one" supplier even with the One's idealistic sales goals which means they pay more than their competitors for the same components and aren't given preference when parts are in scarce supply.
Samsung's monolithic and LG/Sony have deep pocketed parent companies with diverse product lines. Motorola's owned by Google. HTC's too small to compete with those companies as well as the Chinese with their low cost base and priority in the Chinese market.
For the eighth quarter in a row we've discussed HTC's "come back" and for the eighth quarter they've posted continually crappy results with their forward guidance showing no relief. The HTC brand may continue through an acquisition but the company itself is pretty much dead. And that's not my opinion, it's the analyst's which, after these results, all have "sell" ratings on the stock.

hamdir said:
such threads are not needed, we have been seeing them for years now
besides the verge always adds drama on top here is the proper press release
http://www.htc.com/www/about/newsroom/2013/2013-07-30-htc-reports-2013-second-quarter-results/
you can see clearly that they state, the One is getting them more revenue then last year flagships, but they fall short on the low end side of sales, also they have extra expenses for this quarter causing the predicted loss waste of profit
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Than.
Sent from my Nexus 4 using xda premium

HTC is definitely in trouble. The One is an insanely great device and yet they just had their worst quarter. That sounds pretty bad. And again, with the 5s, budget iphone, note 3 and others I don't know how htc can turn this around.
Like Barry said htc is too small of a company at the end of the day. Sony, apple, LG, Samsung are huge companies that have more resources and you need deep pockets to compete. A merge with another company is almost certain at this point.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk 2

Not to be redundant, but this one from Engadget has a positive tone to it.
HTC: the One is selling better than last year's hero products, but next quarter may see a loss

the previous Q2 profit results were good (reported last month)
and these are Q3 projections, considering the stated reasons
i never discussed a come back, all i said companies for a long time can survive with such up and down, we have tons of examples
come to think of it, Asus and HTC merge makes perfect Sense
Same country, Asus sucks in branding and worldwide distribution of it's products, their smartphone side isn't doing so great but they rock in pc and tablets, while HTC is specializes in smartphones exclusively

Asus only sucks in availability of their mobile stuff though. All their PC parts are available every part of the world. If they applied the same resources with the same enthusiasm + a HTC merger, it would be awesomely awesome beyond awesomeness.

hamdir said:
the previous Q2 profit results were good (reported last month)
and these are Q3 projections, considering the stated reasons
i never discussed a come back, all i said companies for a long time can survive with such up and down, we have tons of examples
come to think of it, Asus and HTC merge makes perfect Sense
Same country, Asus sucks in branding and worldwide distribution of it's products, their smartphone side isn't doing so great but they rock in pc and tablets, while HTC is specializes in smartphones exclusively
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Q2 was awful compared to last year's Q2 which is the most relevant comparison. Q-2-Q comparisons don't take in to account seasonality and other trends. And aging inventory is corporate speak for we overestimated demand and/or the competition is eating our lunch. Microsoft writing down $1B because of the Surface's lackluster sales is a good example. What's going to change for HTC? The One's not helping much and the Max and Mini launch is factored in to their Q3 quidance which projects a loss. Their previous focus on the high-end has made them a late comer in emerging markets. Even there their lack of scale makes an identically spec'd HTC phone more expensive to build than their competitors phones. So the high-end (the One) didn't save them and with limited distribution, higher component prices, and no brand loyalty in the price-focused lower tiers it's hard to envision them making much headway there. All the drivel about a bright future is coming from Peter Chou who's decisions and direction got HTC in to the mess they are currently in. His words kind of remind me of "I'll gladly pay you tomorrow for two hamburgers today." And the impact of their financial condition is already being felt by their customers; ask a One S owner.

HTC would survive just like BlackBerry. Would take a very long time to get back on track. I hope mini and ultra boost up their prifits
Sent from my HTC One using XDA Premium HD app

Will be rooting for this underdog!
Sent from my HTC One using xda premium

BarryH_GEG said:
Q2 was awful compared to last year's Q2 which is the most relevant comparison. Q-2-Q comparisons don't take in to account seasonality and other trends. And aging inventory is corporate speak for we overestimated demand and/or the competition is eating our lunch. Microsoft writing down $1B because of the Surface's lackluster sales is a good example. What's going to change for HTC? The One's not helping much and the Max and Mini launch is factored in to their Q3 quidance which projects a loss. Their previous focus on the high-end has made them a late comer in emerging markets. Even there their lack of scale makes an identically spec'd HTC phone more expensive to build than their competitors phones. So the high-end (the One) didn't save them and with limited distribution, higher component prices, and no brand loyalty in the price-focused lower tiers it's hard to envision them making much headway there. All the drivel about a bright future is coming from Peter Chou who's decisions and direction got HTC in to the mess they are currently in. His words kind of remind me of "I'll gladly pay you tomorrow for two hamburgers today." And the impact of their financial condition is already being felt by their customers; ask a One S owner.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
mateeeeeee the One S is well documented already, the reason for the update drop is that Qualcomm stopped supporting snapdragon 3 and hence didn't provide the drivers for 4.2.2
the One S s4 will most likely receive it, as football said the work restarted on the OTA
also this story was confirmed by shen
I'm done here, it was my mistake to enter the financial discussions again
peace

Blackberry would be the one to fall before HTC. HTC, will come back around..
Sammy and Apple love the attention. Ads Ads Ads Ads. It sinks into peoples heads, that these phones are the latest a and greatest that other phones are garbage to them. All in marketing control.. That's why you see more 15 yr old girls with iPhone more and more everyday. Its all about how you advertise. More advertisement the more you will get out of it. $$$
Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk 2

Trouble Trouble
Sent from my HTC One using xda app-developers app

Well. So much for Note 5. Samsung is giving 120$ off price

Cant say Im surprised. Its gonna get much worse if they keep their new Apple-wannabe design.
http://www.theverge.com/2015/9/26/9402621/samsung-promotion-galaxy-s6-note-5-discount

Samsung is not giving $120 off the price of the Note5. You need to get your facts straight.

CafeKampuchia said:
Samsung is not giving $120 off the price of the Note5. You need to get your facts straight.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ok. Discount. Is that a better word choice?
http://www.theverge.com/2015/9/26/9402621/samsung-promotion-galaxy-s6-note-5-discount

toofimoofi said:
Ok. Discount. Is that a better word choice?
http://www.theverge.com/2015/9/26/9402621/samsung-promotion-galaxy-s6-note-5-discount
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, because it's a potential rebate of future payments due, not a discounted sale price. From Samsung's website:
Buy a Samsung Galaxy S6, Galaxy S6 edge, Galaxy S6 edge+ or Galaxy Note5 on an installment plan or lease and get a rebate of all monthly device payments up to $120 following valid online claim.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And the thread title and OP are still misleading. You make it sound like this move is being made because the Note5 is an inferior device. I get from your post history that you're quite disappointed with it, but obviously the Note5 is not the focus of this promotion. Samsung timed it with the release of the iPhone 6s and 6s+, and all the devices in the promotion compete directly with the 6s & 6s+. It's much more likely that they're just trying to keep a few people from buying iPhones. It has nothing to do with the Note5's "Apple-wannabe design."

No non-Apple smartphone OEM sold more of a single high-end device than they did last year. Samsung will sell fewer S6/S6+/Note 5's than it did last year. The market's changed and high-end non-Apple smartphones are tanking. Primarily due to the Western markets being saturated and highish-end phones being sold at 1/3 to 1/2 the price of big brand flagships in emerging markets. Flagships help sell lower tier phones like Samsung’s A-series which they're pushing the hell out of. Samsung sold more smartphones in Q2 this year than they did last year. But with selling price and margin down because they make less on lower tier phones they posted declines in revenue and profit. The latter for the year is $5+B. The only other OEM that turned a profit was LG who made $173K (thousand isn't a typo) last quarter. The rest lost hundreds of millions of dollars. This is the new reality and no single flagship is going to change that; for Samsung or anyone else.

Sooo, @BarryH_GEG, are you saying that this has nothing to do with Samsung ditching SD cards and removable batteries while apeing iPhone design language? If not, it must be that the iPhone can open Angry Birds faster
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Samsung got irritated with people saying that Samsung made cheap plasticity build phones. ..lag laden touch wiz and bloated features and gimmicks that no one used. ..those who were loyal to samsung bought them still bit for others who didn't. .that was their reasons
So they said enough. ..if that's what people want. ..well we will give it to them and they did a great job with that. ..
For 1...I am not complaining. ..and they have been slowly changing their design language with the note every year. ..and what they did now with note 5 was an eventual change
ścribbled from my Note 5

Early buyers always pay more. End of story.
Rebates and discounts are bound to happen. For all companies.
Apple themselves will barely offer promotions like this because they make so much money and have a very loyal fanbase. They don't need to.
However, retailers, carriers and other outlets will have promotions and discounts for iPhone's.
Apple sells two versions of 1 phone (previous models too), they have a much easier time maintaining and controlling things (hardware/software) as opposed to Android or Windows Phone OEM's.
The Note 5 will never sell as much as the iPhone 6s Plus, because there are so many other variants/models at that "phablet" size in the Android market.
While for Apple, the Plus is the ONLY model at that size. Whether that be the 6 or 6s.

CafeKampuchia said:
Sooo, @BarryH_GEG, are you saying that this has nothing to do with Samsung ditching SD cards and removable batteries while apeing iPhone design language? If not, it must be that the iPhone can open Angry Birds faster
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Expandable storage and removable batteries aren't even in the top ten features purchasers consider when buying a smartphone. Design is. Does anyone here think a Note 5 that followed Samsung's earlier formula of a peel off plastic back cover and the design that relegates them to would have sold better? If they went that way instead of people *****ing about batteries and storage they'd be *****ing about another in a series of carry over designs.
They needed to do something major and I for one am pleased with the result.

This isnt a deal you can take if your phone is from a AT&T. They also have a $100 Google Play credit for some carries, also not AT&T. I think this is more of a play to get the other carriers sales of the device is all. Its a solid phone. I never thought I would like a Samsung device and I love this phone more than any of the previous HTC or Nexus devices I have had.

What an ignorant post. how is the note 5 anything like the iPhone design? Just because it doesn't have removable back and sdcard?
Obviously you don't need an android device. If you think having no sdcard is the end of the world then you need to go elsewhere. I can find at least 1 easy way to extend my storage to 96gb

I must admit I have a bit of a problem with samsung's desperation. They want to get that Apple recipe for success so bad. Instead of looking at what makes apple so successful and generates such brand loyalty they try to get apple sheep to switch. As if...
Apple is one of the only companies in the world that can make you buy the same thing twice. There's a reason for that. Design language was a step in the right direction. Focusing on getting people away from apple rather than making your own customers experience better is a fail in my opinion. Because while and if they succeed at luring a few clients away from apple, they are losing the same amount if not more to them.
Why don't they take care of the clients they do have? Just thinking out loud guys...

mrnovanova said:
I must admit I have a bit of a problem with samsung's desperation. They want to get that Apple recipe for success so bad. Instead of looking at what makes apple so successful and generates such brand loyalty they try to get apple sheep to switch. As if...
Apple is one of the only companies in the world that can make you buy the same thing twice. There's a reason for that. Design language was a step in the right direction. Focusing on getting people away from apple rather than making your own customers experience better is a fail in my opinion. Because while and if they succeed at luring a few clients away from apple, they are losing the same amount if not more to them.
Why don't they take care of the clients they do have? Just thinking out loud guys...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I dont think Apple gain any customer from Samsung at all. If anything its the other way around, it just so happen Samsung is being competing with other Company that also have Android i.e HTC, Miezu, Huawei, LG and One plus. Why would people pay for an 800 device when a 400 device is just as good and have more "options". Apple just so happen to stay at the top because they are a monopoly, they dont release their OS to any other company therefore making them the only company to buy Apple product ,it should be illegal really but hey when you have money you can pay off the judge right? If you combine all Android device in the world, it would substantially killed the Apple phone sales stats.
Apple is a company that will always be second to someone, they lose to Microsoft and now they lose to Google. They only stay afloat by making themselves a monopoly. Blackberry could have save themselves too but they join the android game too late, honestly their CEO should be fire, what an idiot! He obviously dint study the mobile market and just try to release more BB product. Blackberry Market is facing extinction, even if they switch to android, its too little too late, but I digress.

mrnovanova said:
Why don't they take care of the clients they do have? Just thinking out loud guys...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Because you can't grow with a dwindling number of loyal existing customers. Two cases in point. HTC had larger market share than Samsung in 2011. Through a series of product and marketing missteps on their part teamed with great competition their customer base began to dwindle. The M7/8/9 are highly regarded phones and have won critical acclaim. Each sold fewer units than the last. All that's left of HTC's customers are a shrinking group of loyalists. Net result is HTC is on its death bed. Saab is another good example. They were the anti-BMW at their peak and sold an enormous amount of cars. Saab owner loyalty was incredible. There just weren't enough of them to keep sales going and, like HTC, a series of product missteps and increased competition sealed their fate.
Existing customer support is critical but not at the expense of responding to changing demographic and market conditions. And that statement is broader than just Samsung's situation.

BarryH_GEG said:
Because you can't grow with a dwindling number of loyal existing customers. Two cases in point. HTC had larger market share than Samsung in 2011. Through a series of product and marketing missteps on their part teamed with great competition their customer base began to dwindle. The M7/8/9 are highly regarded phones and have won critical acclaim. Each sold fewer units than the last. All that's left of HTC's customers are a shrinking group of loyalists. Net result is HTC is on its death bed. Saab is another good example. They were the anti-BMW at their peak and sold an enormous amount of cars. Saab owner loyalty was incredible. There just weren't enough of them to keep sales going and, like HTC, a series of product missteps and increased competition sealed their fate.
Existing customer support is critical but not at the expense of responding to changing demographic and market conditions. And that statement is broader than just Samsung's situation.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Makes sense. From a business perspective you are absolutely right. My comment was coming from an emotional place though. I can't help but feel that samsung should actually listen to people like us. I don't know about you but I've owned every single iteration of the galaxy family s and note since the s2. They almost lost me a few times but I keep coming back. That screen though... Best screen on any phone. Keeps me coming back, Lol.

The hate continues.

I see they are now on ebay for 579. Unbelievable. I paid 200 more for this.

ekerbuddyeker said:
I see they are now on ebay for 579. Unbelievable. I paid 200 more for this.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I guess it depends on how you look at it. For $579 you're getting a Singaporean 32GB Note 5 with no warranty and no support available from Samsung U.S. even if you're willing to pay for it. Unlike the past you can't use Odin to run Western (EG: Europe) ROMs because with different model numbers assigned it'll fail in Odin. It won't work with Samsung Pay and may not work with Android Pay depending on what Google's using to validate the device's market applicability.
There's been posts from people with Asian phones complaining about missing features and settings so that's something to consider. Rooting will fix it for those inclined and with no warranty anyway that's an option. But with root you loose multimedia features (EG: AllShare) unless root cloaks can help get it back. You're also relying on Monoprice (the eBay seller) to satisfy you if there's out-of-box issues like screen imperfections or less than perfect build quality. I'd imagine if any follow-on support was needed upon receipt of the device you're looking at a bunch of back-and-forth and out of pocket expense for return shipment plus the time that'll take. Certainly not support like you'd get from a carrier who has an invested interest in you beyond just selling you a device.
I don't know what carrier you're with but I'm on AT&T's Next 18 which allows me to get a new phone every year. The forgiven balance from my Note 4 was $400. So I overpaid getting it originally at $800ish but actually paid $400ish with the forgiveness factored in. The caveat being $400 high-end phones every year only works if I continue with AT&T.
So I guess whether or not $579 is a good deal depends on how you look at what you're getting and what you're giving up as well. Especially taking the comparative net of any benefit from carrier subsidy/financing programs in to account. Like so many things discussed here value is a big YMMV.
P.S. - My Note 12 is Singaporean and I've owned about a half-dozen grey market devices. So I know the drill.

Am on att, and very happy with the device! Best device I have ever owned.
And it's quite interesting to look over the threads and see how few complaints, if any, there are about this device. Everything works. No issues.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N920AX using XDA Free mobile app

BarryH_GEG said:
I guess it depends on how you look at it. For $579 you're getting a Singaporean 32GB Note 5 with no warranty and no support available from Samsung U.S. even if you're willing to pay for it. Unlike the past you can't use Odin to run Western (EG: Europe) ROMs because with different model numbers assigned it'll fail in Odin. It won't work with Samsung Pay and may not work with Android Pay depending on what Google's using to validate the device's market applicability.
There's been posts from people with Asian phones complaining about missing features and settings so that's something to consider. Rooting will fix it for those inclined and with no warranty anyway that's an option. But with root you loose multimedia features (EG: AllShare) unless root cloaks can help get it back. You're also relying on Monoprice (the eBay seller) to satisfy you if there's out-of-box issues like screen imperfections or less than perfect build quality. I'd imagine if any follow-on support was needed upon receipt of the device you're looking at a bunch of back-and-forth and out of pocket expense for return shipment plus the time that'll take. Certainly not support like you'd get from a carrier who has an invested interest in you beyond just selling you a device.
I don't know what carrier you're with but I'm on AT&T's Next 18 which allows me to get a new phone every year. The forgiven balance from my Note 4 was $400. So I overpaid getting it originally at $800ish but actually paid $400ish with the forgiveness factored in. The caveat being $400 high-end phones every year only works if I continue with AT&T.
So I guess whether or not $579 is a good deal depends on how you look at what you're getting and what you're giving up as well. Especially taking the comparative net of any benefit from carrier subsidy/financing programs in to account. Like so many things discussed here value is a big YMMV.
P.S. - My Note 12 is Singaporean and I've owned about a half-dozen grey market devices. So I know the drill.
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Yup, pros and cons to owning each.
Here's my take:
Personally, I don't see it as that big of a risk. I've never received a device that was malfunctioning or broken in any way. If so, in most cases, the seller has to give you a replacement or refund. As as warranty goes, in a worse come to worse scenario, I can always get it fixed at a local repair shop. Plenty of those around now a days. Me personally, I have a friend who operates one in Philadelphia.
Android Pay is installed and works fine.
I'm not sure about any missing features or settings, haven't come across anything I'm missing aside from carrier bloatware.
Purchasing a phone at $580 is a great deal, in my opinion. I paid $750 by the way only a few weeks ago for mine. Think about it like this, you said you're paying around $400 every year on AT&T Next. Just to upgrade to a newer phone. If you buy that model you referenced above for $580, after a year you could easily sell it for at least $400 (judging by what I got for my Note 4 after one year). So in the end you only paid $180 to upgrade to the latest and greatest.
AT&T, in my opinion, is known for ripping you off on Next upgrades. You end up paying more (total) than you would on T-Mobile or Verizon.
My experience so far with the international model has been excellent. Super fast speeds on AT&T, no carrier bloatware or control over updates. Beautiful gold color, which stands out in a see of black and white phones. No dependence on a carrier known for late updates or anything else.
I called Samsung inquiring about Samsung Pay on this phone. They said once it rolls out to Singapore. It should be able to work in any participating country. That being said, the list of participating U.S. banks is minimal at the moment so it doesn't really interest me anymore.
After my call with their support specialist, I really thought about Samsung Pay, mobile payments as a whole right now in America. With the transition to chip and pay in this country, mobile payment systems from Apple, Samsung and others in the early stages. It didn't make sense for me to wait. I'm going to update my phone again in a year or maybe earlier. So I'd rather wait until mobile payments is more broadly supported.
I rooted my phone immediately after that call. Lol. In the end, I think mobile payments still have another year+ more to go before they're really any good and useful enough to replace my wallet.
After rooting, my phone is even better than before! So much more I can customize and do. My phone feels quicker, battery life seems better and much more. Granted I just rooted recently, so I want to test it more. Aside from T-Mobile, that's something the U.S. carrier Note 5's can never do.
As you said in your post "YMMV". I think this 100% true. Everyone's miles vary. For me the international gold Note 5 rooted is the best Note 5 for me personally.
Just my two cents.