Windows 8 blamed for biggest PC slump ever

Windows 8 blamed for biggest PC slump ever - Windows 8 General

Global PC shipments fell by 13.9 percent in the first quarter of 2013, and according to analyst firm IDC , Windows 8 could very well be the reason. Read more here >>> http://www.foxnews.com/tech/2013/04...gest-pc-shipment-plunge-ever/?intcmp=features

maybe windows 7 is to blame. that plus the fact that as fast as computers are today anextra ghz doesn't give a whole lotta boost in much other than benchmarks.

I'd say its more the shift to tablets. The vast majority of computer users seem to be consumers not producers and for consumption, basic android tablets and iPads do the job fine and are cheaper.

I think most consumers are just a little wary, and are waiting to see what will happen.

PC sales had been declining for a while, and that is clearly due to Apple gaining in the market. Windows 8 is a pretty big change, so it will not catch on quite as fast while people adapt to it. But rest assured, Microsoft has created an incredible product and their sales will start to climb more and more.

Actually, the full story is more complicated than what any of you have said here (also, this story is a few days old already).
First, Apple declined as well. By less, to be sure, but they did. The whole industry slumped.
Second, the numbers given (why the heck link Fox instead of the real source? Hardly a great soure of tech news) are for "PCs" only; tablets (even if they run a PC OS, like the Surface Pro) are not included. That makes up some of the slump, especially on the Windows "PC" side where Win8 has been targeting tablets pretty heavily.
Third, correlation is not causation. There are a number of things which could be the cause of this decline; the blame on Win8 is basically conjecture based on coincidental timing.

IDC source: http://www.idc.com/getdoc.jsp?containerId=prUS24065413
"PCs include Desktops, Portables, Mini Notebooks, and Workstations and do not include handhelds, x86 Servers and Tablets (i.e. slate form factor devices regardless of OS or chip type, such as iPad, Android, or Windows-based Tablets)."
The wording is a bit ambiguous, as it's not immediately apparent whether hybrids--the crux of the Win8 push--are counted as "portables" or not counted as "tablets." From context, one can assume that hybrids are indeed counted, as it makes little sense to criticize Win8 if its key products are ignored. Even without context, hybrids as sold aren't "slate form factor devices," even if they can be detached and used as one.
Ambiguity aside, the facts of the finding are that PC sales decline is accelerating. That Win8 may have made it worse isn't material. What's material is that it failed in curbing or even slowing the downtrend. Rather than wrangle about who's to blame, let's figure out what's next.
There are no sales drivers for PCs, other than to replace obsoleted hardware. In years past, hardcore PC gaming was the main impetus, but that now has largely migrated to consoles. As overall PC uses plateaued, or even reduced, the inevitable push is toward lower pricing. We've already seen this effect with the popularity of cheap netbooks. The netbook died out not because it's a fad, but because Intel & MS constrained its capabilities (1024x600 display, slow Atom) so as not to cannibalize their more profitable products. Even without the iPad's emergence, the PC market was artificially propped up, and ripened for a fall.
But smartphones and tablets happened. Like netbooks, they're more portable, simpler, and cheaper (than PCs). While many have focused on the "portable & simple" aspects, I think just as important if not more is the "cheaper" factor. People like cheap. Tablets are the new netbooks.
In that sense, it doesn't matter what fancy UI or doodads Win8 has. It has no new uses that users can't already do elsewhere. No new uses => lower prices. Win8 actually raised the median PC pricing. For this fall, Win8.1 will at best bring pricing back to PC norms (with lowered touch-screen costs). But the cat is already out of the bag: cheap tablets that can handle the bulk of consumer activities. Computing is no longer a Wintel monopoly.
"What's next" is straightforward for the near term: As Win8.1 devices will be largely the same as Win8's in both capabilities and pricing (albeit slightly improved), then sales performance will be largely the same (albeit slightly improved). Windows will not materially affect the downtrend.
The inevitable Microsoft retrenchment in 2014 is more difficult to call. A management shake-up is the most likely. What follows that is a bit hazy, because I don't think there is a Plan B. Metro is it. Probable short-term fixes would include the easy things like restoring boot-to-desktop and Start Button. We may see a bifurcation into Windows Pro (desktop) and Windows Modern (Metro), with more emphasis on integration of the two rather than replacement. We can speculate on wilder options like making Windows free for licensing, and relying on updates & services for revenue, but that's not the way to bet.
A big company like MS is like an ocean liner: It can't spin on a dime and discard its entire business model; it can't discard its cash cows. That would take a larger disaster, and Windows isn't yet at that point. But MS is heading down that path. Perhaps it should take on RIM's former co-CEOs as advisors on what (not) to do next.
Lastly, here's one certainty we can bet on: There will be a Windows 9 next year. With the reception Win8 is getting, MS doesn't have the luxury of another year of incremental upgrade.

Are you considering Windows 9 as distinct from what is currently codenamed "Blue"? Because that's supposed to hit this year. MS has already announced that they're moving to an annual release cycle for Windows and for IE.
To me it sounds like basically they want the option of doing "service packs" which also change the UI, something that in the past they've avoided, but I can't say that's a bad idea. So long as their support lifecycle is unaffected, businesses won't mind; they'll keep on using whatever they use now, just as they always have. Customers probably won't mind, unless MS screws up the pricing or downgrades the user experience with no option to go back to the older version; improvements are a good thing, especially if/when they're free, and the same lifecycle argument applies to consumers as well as businesses.

I see Blue as more about integration of MS services than about Windows. 8.1 is basically same as 8.0 plus a few usability tweaks. You can view it as a "stay the course" for Metro to get traction in an improved environment (better and slightly cheaper hardware, more apps). You can also view it as a temporizing move until Win9. Either way, Win Metro is a 2-yr commitment regardless of success or failure.
The more things change, the more they stay the same: The challenger unseating the incumbent with a cheaper product. Any old dog here remember how MS-DOS got its break? Ignore the urban lore about how Kindall missed the IBM boat. The fact was that MS-DOS was cheaper for IBM to license than CP/M. Cheap wins.
Fast forward to how WordPerfect got sliced by the MS axe. WordPerfect at that time was the business standard, and a single copy costs $400+. That was also a transition period, from DOS to Windows. WordPerfect was late with a Windows version and allowed MS Word a foothold. But the kicker was when MS bundled Word/Excel/PowerPoint into a suite (Office) and sold it for the same price as WordPerfect. Cheap wins.
Fast forward to 5 years ago. Out of nowhere, Android became the world's #1 mobile OS, not because it was better, but because Google gave it away for free, and let vendors have full control on how they want to customize it. Google did to MS what MS did to WordPerfect (among many others). Cheap wins.
Note that in MS' Metro push, "cheap" is not a component. Surface devices are premium-priced, all Win8 hybrids are premium, Office 365 sub is premium, XBox 720 will be premium. The weakness of the incumbent is that it can't let go of its cash cows, its hefty margins, and answer head-on against the challenger. MS can't compete on price.
The conundrum is that neither can it charge a premium (as it's trying to do now), because Metro isn't a finished product, let alone a quality product. Judged on its own merits, Metro isn't on par with Android or iOS, and its eco is also poorer. Then, if priced correctly, Metro devices should be cheaper than Android devices. That won't happen, per said above. Ergo, Metro devices won't sell.
Android spring launch will have the Lenovo S6000 10" (quadcore MTK, 1280x800 IPS) at $250, Acer & Asus low-end 7" at $150, along with other lower-tier vendors. Better toys will come in fall along with 5.0, and it's a safe bet that these (except for Samsung's) will underprice the iPads. It's also safe to bet that they will underprice Windows tablets.
As for reviving the desktop, it's simple: Think of a new use for it. So let's brainstorm: What will make people buy a desktop PC?
Off the cuff, then: Everyday now we hear of this cloud computing doodad. The problem with cloudputing is that everything needs to go through your Internet connection, which can be slow, unreliable, and have small usage cap. Web services are fine for some things (like social), but suck for others. Then, why not a personal cloudputer, where the "desktop" becomes a VMM/file server handling local services for satellite handheld devices. MS can revive the defunct Windows Home Server for the task, and position it for the desktop. It can set up an eco wherein "apps" are naturally services, and the services can be cross-platform serving Android/iOS/Windows devices. Why should DropBox only exist on the Internet, why not on your home network?
Anyway, what's funny is that MS has done this before, shoehorning a desktop UI onto phones (nee WinCE). Now, we get to see it going the other way, shoehorning a phone UI onto desktops. The first didn't end well, and neither will this second.
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About the Xbox supposedly being premium priced, ps4 is rumored to be premium priced too. The cheap thing probably won't apply in that case, I can hardly imagine many gamers moving to the Wii U unless it gets some decent AAA titles.

>About the Xbox supposedly being premium priced, ps4 is rumored to be premium priced too.
Which is why console gaming is losing out to mobile gaming. A $60 game can't compete against a $5 game, even with IAPs.
http://www.wired.com/opinion/2013/01/how-mobile-kills-the-console-but-advances-the-gaming-industry/
All the signs are there. Mobile gaming has the momentum. It can do hardcore games, it can have dedicated controllers, it has HDMI-out to big displays. With Miracast/Airplay, it can go wireless. It has an open eco which allows wide diversity. It can already do media/online streaming. There's nothing consoles can do that mobiles can't.
Consoles are trying to go the other way, by offering media/content to supplement the hardcore stuff, and appeal to casual gamers. There'll be apps. MS is trying (again) to do the TV thing. The problem is that the XBox will then be a glorified media streamer that costs $500, as compared to a $100 Roku 3 that exists right now. It's not even a contest.
BTW, neither PS4 nor XBox will have backward compatibility, since both will use x86 (AMD). I don't know if the new consoles' reception will be a bloodbath on the order of Win8, but I can't imagine any long lines either. The launch buzz around both has been underwhelming.
As for AAA titles, pubs go where the money is. It wasn't long ago when consoles had no hardcore shooters.

Don't assume x86 = no backward compatibility. The original Xbox also used x86. The 360 uses PPC, but its OS was designed from the beginning with the ability to run Xbox games via emulation. In theory, the other way around is also possible. The 360 had a powerful CPU for its time, but that time was ~8 years ago - around four iterations of Moore's Law - and PPC isn't a terribly difficult instruction set to emulate (not compared to x86, at least).
Sorry, off-topic I know, but something I thought worth pointing out.

Bit of a head start for xbla indie games as they are .net (CE I believe rather than full blow .net) so if they were to port .net and XNA then they would have a nice little back catalogue of games already.
But yeah, they can "just" use PPC emulation if they want although who knows if they will or not. No backwards compatibility and I certainly won't be getting one. I usually play PC, its just halo isn't on PC

I doubt that there will be 360 compatibility. Original Xbox compatibility would be more likely, but I doubt that too.
The 360 is just too complex of a beast, MS wouldn't want to allot the resources to designing an emulator, since most people who would want to use it would already have a 360.
The original Xbox is just too old to care about.

MS killed XNA earlier this year. For indie gaming, the consensus is that XBL gave indie devs the shaft. Read the dev piece below for the lowdown.
http://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/ThomasSteinke/20130202/185921/
Anyway, people aren't going to pay $500 + XBL sub for indie games when there are plenty of those on mobile. Aside from the few hit franchises that appeal to a shrinking pool of hardcore gamers, XBL has no exclusive content to pull in casual users. Any licensed content can be found elsewhere.
A walled garden also needs a low entry cost so people can easily get in. AOL practically covered the planet with its free trial CDs; Amazon sold the KF at or below cost to bulk up its eco. XBL's $500 up-front cost kills any chance for it to expand into the living room. It's like pricing the Surface RT at $600 and expecting it to win market share against Android/iOS.

e.mote said:
MS killed XNA earlier this year.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not officially they didnt.
The entire indie games secion of the XBLA is using XNA and new submissions are still coming in (infact MS only allow XNA on there).
XNA was used for all windows phone 7 games and is still being used extensively.
If they want to kill it off, they are going to have to give us a replacement, perhaps one will come with windows blue.
As for franchises. Call of duty, lets see, xbox, playstation or PC, well, few gamers bother with PC (although it is my preferred platform). A gaming PC will set you back just as much, if not more than the predicted price for the next gen xbox. Playstation 4 is expected to cost about the same as the next gen xbox. I dont see many "hardcore" gamers getting Wii U's. So there isnt another platform for them to move to that doesnt have the same cost issue.
As for walled up gardens. What, the wii and playstation arent walled up gardens either? Home consoles are walled up gardens, what do you expect? If you want something that isnt walled, get an OUYA, won't be as capable a machine but hey.
The Surface RT will always be more expensive and android, it should be, its a premium product, most android tablets are aimed at the non premium market. The surface is a premium device, no I dont agree with it being nearly £399 (PC World, cheapest UK price I can find, $611.07) but it certainly wont ever retail at £200 or so like 10" android tablets start at.

In the quarterly conf call today, Intel CEO sez Bay Trail touch-screen notebooks will go "as low as $200," Haswell will start at $500. I have a hard time believing that, but Otellini isn't a BS'er. When all else fails, taking an axe to pricing always works. It worked for the $100 HP Touchpad, and a $200 Bay Trail isn't that far off.
Even if ignoring touch-screen cost, and assuming OS license is $0, I have a hard time seeing a netbook-class device being sold for $200 without hefty subsidy from Wintel. A $500 Haswell notebook is more doable sans subsidy. We'll hear more on this come summer.
If it happens, it'll be the first good news (in an unending stream of bad news) for Windows. Actually, it'll be good for Win x86, pretty terrible for RT, as I doubt MS or any vendor can field a RT device for less. RT will need to go into hibernation for this round.
Another casualty would be Metro. With x86 available and the "legacy" desktop being so much more functional, folks will ignore Metro altogether, especially if boot-to-desktop & Start Menu are back as rumored. Metro development would take a big hit. Then again, it's not like there's a rush of Metro apps as it is. Probably just as well. Metro isn't terrible, but it can use another year or two of work. Needs a file manager and a workable multi-window scheme. No more "full-screen only" crap on desktop.
The last casualty is the clueless bunch that buy into the tail end of the current hardware crop. Oh well, bleeding edge and all that.
So, let's all hope that Otellini Santa can deliver the goods. It may cheer Ballmer enough to do another monkey dance.

Since we were talking about XBox, here's a pastebin dump with more XBox rumors. We all know about Internet rumors by now, especially the anon variety. But after reading enough online crap over time, you develop a knack for sniffing out the BS. Dude sounds on the level, so I'm posting the link.
http://pastebin.com/avbwJc17
TL;DR: Dedicated SoC to handle X360 BC. No always-on. Kinect 2.0. Runs full Win8 (no desktop). Can play Win Store games w/ added controller support.
These sound plausible and even probable, since the sell can be a full PC on your TV using Kinect for gesture support. Most Metro apps (not just games) should work, although perhaps not at launch. A wireless KB accessory is a no-brainer. It's a good sell, and does correlate with the whole MS integration thingie: PC + console + TV + SmartGlass. Exclusive content won't be needed if the whole setup meshes well. That's the big if. The $500 up-front is still a hard sell.
My gauge is that this will appeal to existing console peeps, but probably not enough to sway casuals. I grade this as a "good rumor" since it makes (more) sense, even if no attribution.

More details on the $200 Atom notebook. This time, an Intel VP has stated that said touch notebook will run Android.
http://news.cnet.com/8301-1001_3-57581500-92/android-notebooks-yep-intel-says-and-theyll-only-cost-$200/
From a geek's POV, it's actually more exciting to have an x86 Android notebook, since lack of a keyboard is a big obstacle in changing droid toys into tools (ie for productivity). With Intel as a backer, we can expect better OS updates, which would remove Android's BIGGEST problem of poor vendor support. At the same time, the x86 hardware would include the high probability of dual boot into Windows or Linux.
The fly-in-the-ointment would be storage space. At $200, I'm assuming said touch (detachable?) notebook will be in the 7-8" range, w/ 1GB RAM and 16GB storage. 1GB RAM is doable for Win8, but 16GB flash would be tight for Win8. Dual-booting would be even tougher assuming a 4/12 split.
With past Win versions, there've been tools to strip out the bloat, ie XPLite/VistaLite/7Lite. I haven't seen an equiv for 8, but there's a front-end for DISM that looks promising, WinToolkit,
http://wincert.net/forum/files/file/5-win-toolkit
12GB is more than doable for a slimmed-down Win. Program folders will need to be relocated to the SD slot (ditto for Android apps). Hopefully it'll have a USB port for additional storage use. Keyboard will be cramped, but it'll still be better than the old WinCE clamshells.
Another (slower) dual-boot option is to do Win2Go onto a USB stick. The problem here is at that price point, there won't be USB 3.0 and WTG will be a total slug.
It'll be an exercise in minimal computing. But it will be fun.
Geek toys aside, it's an intriguing Intel move to find new markets for its wares, and Android is the obvious choice. If successful, the initiative will undermine and directly compete against MS' effort to move Win8 into lower price points, which is where Windows is weakest. For geeks, it's a no-brainer for the $200 Android (dual-bootable) toy, especially if the Windows counterpart is locked with Secure Boot.
Harder to call for regular users, but I think the $200 Android would still be more appealing, as Android+apps is still better than Metro+apps (desktop isn't as relevant on a small device), and the higher pricing to account for OS license + larger needed storage space.
What's good for the goose is good for the gander; Intel is doing what MS has done with its support for ARM. But this surely won't help the Wintel marital bliss. Just as Intel undoubtedly cheered when Surface RT hit the skids, I'm sure MS is bringing out the voodoo doll for Android notebooks. Regardless of the peanut gallery, a $200 toy stands a much better chance of selling than a $600 toy.
The above piece mentioned that Core (IVB?) notebooks will be "as low as $400." From this we can assume that Atom notebooks will be $300 or less. The netbook returns.
I'm wondering about the Surface 8"--whether MS will go premium and fit the 8" with a full-HD screen (to compete with iPad Mini 2's Retina), or will it go value with low-res and $300-or-less pricing. Straight-line projection says that it'll go premium, and price will be same as iPad Mini at $329.

Related

Samsung Galaxy Note 10.1 vs Window based Tablet experience

I have been a pen/tablet enthusiastic for many years and have owned (and still own) loads of tablet over the years. I currently own and use 4 window based pen-tablets (2 XP, 1 Vista, and 1 Window 7), 2 iPads, 2 iPod touch, Apple Macbook Pro (2009), Apple Macbook Air 13" (2012), Samsung Galaxy Note 5.3, and then the latest Galaxy Note 10.1. I also used to own loads of Window powered PDAs, palm, casio, etc.
As you can see for the list above, I have been looking for the perfect computing experience, especially the pen/tablet experience. I bought the Note 10.1 because of my Note 5.3. IMHO, the Note 10.1 is a decent pen-tablet, and it had made vast improvement over the Ntoe 5.3 in terms of hardware. However, it is the software where I feel is limiting the Note 10.1 from being a perfect pen-tablet machine.
People have already disregard the window based PC as being a serious tablet and they are rightfully so. The XP, Vista, and Window 7 while can be used to run as a tablet, have never been designed for tablet. So my experience with them have always been frustrating. HOWEVER, it was a pleasant surprise to me when I loaded the release preview of Window 8 few weeks ago onto 3 of my old Window tablets.
I have a Samsung Q1UP (6 year old, XP, w/resistive pen, 2GB ram, 64GB SSD), a HP 2710P (4 years old, w/Wavcom pen, 1GB ram, 80GB HDD), an ACER W500 (2 year old, w/touch pen, 2GB ram, 32GB SDD), and when loaded with the Window 8, all 3 machines even though are old have given me a VERY good pen/tablet experience. All 3 tablets now run much faster and very very smooth. The surprise comes when all these tablets are now running more like an Andriod/IOS instead of a typical window os. You can smoothly scroll, zoom, etc just like an iPad or Galaxy Note. The battery life seems to have improved in all these machines, and the time from sleep to logon screen is about 2-3 seconds. Loading programs used to take forever under the old OS, but now I can load excel, word, one-note, etc from cold in about 2 seconds.
Now to the most important part, the pen use with Window 8. The handwriting recognition is much better and faster than the Note 10.1 (for all 3 devices with the resistive pen, wavcom pen, and touch pen). The S-Note in the Note 10.1 is just a tiny program, but the One-Note is a full blown application with seamless integration with Office and Sky Drive, etc.
With the new tablets coming designed specifically with Window 8 in mind, I think Microsoft has risen the par on tablet competition. As the upcoming Samsung Series 5 hybrid tablet, for example, is coming with a $650 based price, 11 hrs battery life (with the optional keyboard), 750g weight, and can run all window software. Even though I have not seen, touch or used one of these new machines, the fact that Window 8 has turned my 6 years old tablet into a brand new machine is exciting for me.
Please don't get me wrong. I think the Samsung Note 10.1 is a decent machine which I will definitely keep. I bought it because I can carry it all day and not worry about battery, and I hardly need to run any PC applications these days when I am out. More importantly if I plan to use the PC all day, I probably need to bring the charger with me which will bring the weight up to 1kg or more. Since I carry my camera with me all day, the Note 10.1 is a better choice for me.
However, if you are looking into serious note taking and also need to run pc applications, I think the Window 8 tablets may be a good alternative. We will all know if this is true when the machines are officially announced in late Oct.
PS: I am in absolutely no way affiliated with any of the companies mentioned about, I am just giving my take on using all these devices over the years.

Good post.
What's your take on the new slate 5 vs surface pro?
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

Well you are comparing apples and oranges and also making the logical fallacy that just because you like something others will as well. Based upon your large collection of tablets, price is not a big issue for you. You just want the best tablet experience, period. Thats all good, but the majority of buyers don't share your enthusiasm.
Keep in mind that most people think of their tablets as an accessory and not a primary computing device. As soon as you get much above the $500 price point you are getting into primary computing device territory. But with an 11.6 inch screen, tablets do not offer enough real estate to be an ultrabook replacement, especially for a business person running larger format legacy corporate software. I would go blind trying to read my company's database forms on an 11.6 inch HD screen - they cant just be resized as a Word document can be.
Also, will most business people think touch and pen input are worth trading in their 15 inch ultrabook screens for? I have been using Office for 20 years and never once felt the need to touch the screen. Office needs two things - lots of screens space and a mouse, a W8 Tablet offers neither.
Samsung makes a good profit on the SGN10.1. They could easily drop the price another $50 and still make money. In addition, one would assume that Samsung will be updating the SGN10.1 to the Note 2.0 software which is far far superior. Whereas W8 is a bit of a lumbering behemoth that will take years to see any major upgrades, Android can change and improve quickly. Also Android is far more customizable. Dont forget that word on the street is Windows 8 as a true desktop OS sucks and wont see broad corporate acceptance.
So you have to ask yourself, will the market as a whole be ready to pay 30% more for a device that does a lot of things (touch and pen) on a Windows device they may not need? Don't forget that we are already competing with very good 7 inch tablets that cost less than a third the price of the new W8 tablets.
Windows 8 tablets will be stuck in the middle. Too expensive for the casual user and too small for the serious user. When it comes to tablets most people want one that costs the least and does the job well enough. Think of it like cars. They sell a lot more Ford Focuses than Porsche 911's. The Porsche is a better car but the Ford just does the job for less. SGN10.1 will continue to be the cheapest usable pen input large format tablet on the market for the foreseeable future. It may not work quite as well as the W8 tablet but it works well enough for 1/3 less.
The good news is the competition will force Android to be better but no, I think Android has got little to worry about from Windows 8.
Sent from my GT-N8013 using Tapatalk 2

My point is that pound for pound, at least with the Samsung units, you will pay signficantly more for the same level of tablet, even the RT. As a matter of fact the W8 RT offering from Samsung will be slightly worse than the SGN10.1 since the screen is larger with roughly the same resolution. If you dont like the SGN10.1 screen youll hate the W8 RT screen.
For me at least, the primary benefit of Windows over Android is Office programs like Access. Word and Excel are emulated on Android just fine. I dont believe W8 RT will even run Access and if it does I believe the screen is too small to use it effectively with forms designed for a larger screen.
Again, what is the benefit to the consumer of using touch with Office? There is none. So you are trading in a big screen that you do need for touch that you dont.
Tablets are not laptop replacements and if you price them like one you are going to have a problem. They need to be priced like an accessory. Right now at least, Android does that better at the SGN10.1 price. Even $500 is close to being too high.
My conclusion is that W8 Tablets will be too much for a tablet and do too little to replace a laptop. Just my opinion. It may sell gangbusters but I dont think so. We'll have to wait and see. Nevertheless, its presence in the marketpalce will make Android products better
Sent from my GT-N8013 using Tapatalk 2

mitchellvii said:
Well you are comparing apples and oranges and also making the logical fallacy that just because you like something others will as well. Based upon your large collection of tablets, price is not a big issue for you. You just want the best tablet experience, period. Thats all good, but the majority of buyers don't share your enthusiasm.
Keep in mind that most people think of their tablets as an accessory and not a primary computing device. As soon as you get much above the $500 price point you are getting into primary computing device territory. But with an 11.6 inch screen, tablets do not offer enough real estate to be an ultrabook replacement, especially for a business person running larger format legacy corporate software. I would go blind trying to read my company's database forms on an 11.6 inch HD screen - they cant just be resized as a Word document can be.
Also, will most business people think touch and pen input are worth trading in their 15 inch ultrabook screens for? I have been using Office for 20 years and never once felt the need to touch the screen. Office needs two things - lots of screens space and a mouse, a W8 Tablet offers neither.
Samsung makes a good profit on the SGN10.1. They could easily drop the price another $50 and still make money. In addition, one would assume that Samsung will be updating the SGN10.1 to the Note 2.0 software which is far far superior. Whereas W8 is a bit of a lumbering behemoth that will take years to see any major upgrades, Android can change and improve quickly. Also Android is far more customizable. Dont forget that word on the street is Windows 8 as a true desktop OS sucks and wont see broad corporate acceptance.
So you have to ask yourself, will the market as a whole be ready to pay 30% more for a device that does a lot of things (touch and pen) on a Windows device they may not need? Don't forget that we are already competing with very good 7 inch tablets that cost less than a third the price of the new W8 tablets.
Windows 8 tablets will be stuck in the middle. Too expensive for the casual user and too small for the serious user. When it comes to tablets most people want one that costs the least and does the job well enough. Think of it like cars. They sell a lot more Ford Focuses than Porsche 911's. The Porsche is a better car but the Ford just does the job for less. SGN10.1 will continue to be the cheapest usable pen input large format tablet on the market for the foreseeable future. It may not work quite as well as the W8 tablet but it works well enough for 1/3 less.
The good news is the competition will force Android to be better but no, I think Android has got little to worry about from Windows 8.
Sent from my GT-N8013 using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
WOW!! I wished someone had warned me about troll living here and that no comments other than good Note 10.1 comments are allowed in this forum. This will be my last post in the forum, leaving you alone to harass other people.
The observation in my original post is based on actual experience. Yours seemed to be based on pure speculations and imaginations. I truly doubt you have similar experience before making your comments. I welcome you to try them first and proof me wrong, or stop making illogical fallacy.
1. I read many of the owners who bought the Note 10.1 because of the S-Pen. Some owners even suggested potential buyers to look elsewhere if they are purely looking for an Android tablet as there are better alternatives out there. At present, only the Note 10.1 and Window tablets offer pens experience, so I don’t understand why you think it is an apple to orange comparison.
2. When I composed the list of devices I own, I was hoping to give some background on the wide variety of devices/OS I have used, so that I can make my points. But you turned it into a show-off list.
3. You mentioned “…20 years and never once felt the need to touch the screen”, then you went to buy the Note 10.1 and other touch devices, interesting!
4. The ACER W500 Win 7 tablet I bought 2 years ago brand new was $550 then (the Note 10.1 is about the same price range). The hardware was mediocre at the time, and it sucked with Win 7. I was amused how Window 8 has turned it into a very respectable tablet, with very fast and accurate hand writing recognition, and good note experience with One-Note, then further suggested today’s hardware could only do better. You turned it into a Ford and Porsche comparison. I bet you had never owned a Porsche before, so it is a mood point arguing with you here.
5. You must be the CFO of Samsung as you knew how much profit they are making on the SGN10.1, and can easily drop the price by another $50. BTW, Samsung also makes the upcoming Window 8 tablet with MSRP of $649 and respectable hardware (S-PEN, 11.6” , 1366 x 768, 2GB Ram, 9 hrs battery life, 750g, and 64GB SSD http://www.engadget.com/2012/08/29/samsung-announces-series-5-slate-series-7-slate/). Based on your insider knowledge, Samsung could also easily drop the price by another $50 for the Window tablet. Then there are other tablets makers that produce cheaper devices.
6. I had never once suggested Window 8 will take over Android or even compete with it, so I think you are making your comments based on illusion.
Best wishes!

Lol, i guess your definition of "troll"is anyone who disagrees with you? You come to the SGN10.1 Forum announcing that our tablet is "just ok" while the W8 tablets will be the Second Coming and you don't expect any pushback?
I made the argument that the W8 tablets will have a difficult time finding their place in a competitive market. Many pundits online agree with me. Too expensive for a tablet, too small for a laptop. You imply that I said you were bragging about all your tablets. I simply said that you were concerned more about performance than price. How did you get from that that i said you were bragging?
As far as knowing the Samsung can cut the price of the SGN10.1 and still make money that is a well established fact. Google is your friend.
Oh well, if you must leave I am sorry. Im sure there is someone in here that will miss you praising the W8 tablets and putting down the SGN10.1.
P.S. Actually I am a BMW man myself. The center console on Porsche is too wide and presses against my shin because I am tall. The Ford/Porsche comparison was an attempt to compare a tool which can do the job at a lower cost vs one that offers good things but perhaps things that cost conscious people dont need.
Touch with Office is a perfect example of this. Why does anyone need touch with Office? Id rather have a 15 inch screen.
Sent from my GT-N8013 using Tapatalk 2
---------- Post added at 10:06 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:34 AM ----------
For those who feel, as the OP does, that I am pulling my concerns about W8 Tablets from my backside, here is a quote from PCWorld Magazine:
http://www.pcworld.com/businesscent..._8_tablets_have_what_it_takes_to_succeed.html
There are a number of issues that could make Windows 8 tablets dead on arrival, or at least a very tough sell. Two of the biggest will be price, and confusion over differences between Windows on ARM (WOA) tablets, and x86/x64 architecture tablets.
ARM-based devices will probably be better tablets than their x86/x64 counterparts. WOA tablets will most likely be lighter, cooler, have longer battery life, and--most importantly--be cheaper. ARM-based tablets will be more on par with the competing tablets already in the market like the iPad, Motorola Xoom, Samsung Galaxy Tab, and others.
That all sounds great, but WOA tablets also come with significant handicaps that nullify most of what makes a Windows 8 tablet appealing. For example, WOA tablets can’t run traditional Windows software--they require apps written for the Metro UI.
Wes Miller from GetWired.com and Directions on Microsoft poses the question, “For enterprises who will have to rewrite their (non-Web) applications in Metro for WOA anyway, the question comes up, "why wouldn't I rewrite it for iOS instead?", since there is no way to run non-Microsoft Win32 apps on WOA.”
The bigger issue for WOA tablets is that Microsoft has revealed they are intended for “unmanaged environments”. What that translates to is that WOA tablets will not be able to connect to Windows domains and be managed like x86/x64 Windows 8 tablets, and other Windows systems.
Amobi says that there are arguments to be made for and against WOA tablets, and it’s still too early for a final verdict. But, he stresses, “If they cant join domains--game over.”
No worries. We still have x86/x64 Windows 8 tablets to fall back on, right? True, but there are some caveats.
An x86/x64 tablet is just squeezing a notebook or desktop into a touchscreen, flat-panel form factor. That has advantages, but we also know that running Windows takes a fair amount of processing horsepower and memory. While it may be possible to run Windows 8 with less RAM, 4GB is probably the minimum for acceptable performance. That is four times what most ARM tablets use.
When you build a tablet on x86/x64 architecture, and try to beef up the RAM to deliver adequate performance, the tablet starts to face other issues. As previously mentioned, users want tablets that are thin, light, and have endurance to last all day on a single charge. It is unlikely that x86/x64 tablets can truly compete with ARM-based rivals in these areas.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As I have stated, W8 Tablets will be stuck in the middle. RT too underpowered to run true Windows software and Pro too small to run true Windows software properly.
DOA.
Hopefully these facts have taken some of the emotion out of this argument.

What the heck OP, please respond to my original question!
New slate 5 vs surface pro. Based on your experience, should we (consumers) wait for the SP release before purchasing.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

mitchellvii, you are assuming too much and treating your "opinion" as the gospel truth.
Have you used OneNote on a tablet computer? S-Note is the extremely light version of OneNote when it comes to note-taking (not doodling or sketching, etc). It is certain that it will get better over time, but the current/first generation is a good introduction to what it can do in the future.
From drawing and sketching point of view, I can make the same argument that you are making for Office and touch. Note 10.1 most likely won't replace anyone's Wacom tablet to produce art on a 10.1" screen. With the same perspective as yours, this falls right in the middle: not enough for professionals and little more than people who aren't into drawing/sketching necessarily.
Just like the OP, I'm not putting down the Note 10.1; I'm actually waiting for the UPS truck to bring a 32GB version today. However, you don't have to blindly defend it when an alternative view is presented. Just embrace the fact that for every device with additional features (e.g., being able to run OneNote and a full OS on a tablet), there's a segment out there. If you are outside of that segment or find some of those features not very useful for your way of using a tablet, it's perfectly fine, as long as you realize the advantages and disadvantages of each device with an open mind.

tenderidol said:
mitchellvii, you are assuming too much and treating your "opinion" as the gospel truth.
Have you used OneNote on a tablet computer? S-Note is the extremely light version of OneNote when it comes to note-taking (not doodling or sketching, etc). It is certain that it will get better over time, but the current/first generation is a good introduction to what it can do in the future.
From drawing and sketching point of view, I can make the same argument that you are making for Office and touch. Note 10.1 most likely won't replace anyone's Wacom tablet to produce art on a 10.1" screen. With the same perspective as yours, this falls right in the middle: not enough for professionals and little more than people who aren't into drawing/sketching necessarily.
Just like the OP, I'm not putting down the Note 10.1; I'm actually waiting for the UPS truck to bring a 32GB version today. However, you don't have to blindly defend it when an alternative view is presented. Just embrace the fact that for every device with additional features (e.g., being able to run OneNote and a full OS on a tablet), there's a segment out there. If you are outside of that segment or find some of those features not very useful for your way of using a tablet, it's perfectly fine, as long as you realize the advantages and disadvantages of each device with an open mind.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The OP said:
"Please don't get me wrong. I think the Samsung Note 10.1 is a decent machine which I will definitely keep."
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Click to collapse
Nice of him to let us know our SGN10.1 is "a decent machine" (compared to the glowing oracle of W8). I consider that a put-down.
"Blindly defending"? As in, just making up stuff you mean? Did you even bother read the article? Lol. Read it and get back to me on my blind defense.

mitchellvii said:
The OP said:
Nice of him to let us know our SGN10.1 is "a decent machine" (compared to the glowing oracle of W8). I consider that a put-down.
"Blindly defending"? As in, "just making up stuff" you mean? Did you even bother read the article? Lol. Read it and get back to me on my blind defense.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You really must love the Note 10.1 like your significant other. Calling it a "decent machine" is an insult? As I mentioned above, keep an open mind, and you'll be able to see the strengths and the weaknesses of each device.

mitchellvii said:
The OP said:
Nice of him to let us know our SGN10.1 is "a decent machine" (compared to the glowing oracle of W8). I consider that a put-down.
"Blindly defending"? As in, just making up stuff you mean? Did you even bother read the article? Lol. Read it and get back to me on my blind defense.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes you are. You posted an article filled with opinions from Mar and think that these are facts. They are not.
Sent from my GT-N8013 using xda app-developers app

mitchellvii said:
"Blindly defending"? As in, just making up stuff you mean? Did you even bother read the article? Lol. Read it and get back to me on my blind defense.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So, stating someone else's opinion is a fact, now? Got it! Let me find that Verge review and link it here as the "fact" about Note 10.1.
Again... I purchased the damn thing and will be using it to its full potential. However, unlike you, I'll keep an open mind and try the Samsung Smart PC offerings (specifically the Series 5). If it performs well, it'll replace the Note 10.1 (or I may keep both, since they serve different functions); if not, I'll continue to use it happily.

tenderidol said:
Have you used OneNote on a tablet computer? S-Note is the extremely light version of OneNote when it comes to note-taking (not doodling or sketching, etc). It is certain that it will get better over time, but the current/first generation is a good introduction to what it can do in the future.
From drawing and sketching point of view, I can make the same argument that you are making for Office and touch. Note 10.1 most likely won't replace anyone's Wacom tablet to produce art on a 10.1" screen. With the same perspective as yours, this falls right in the middle: not enough for professionals and little more than people who aren't into drawing/sketching necessarily.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Three things are missing from this conversation to make it worthwhile.
1) Everyone uses their tablets differently. A gamer, heavy productivity user, graphic artist, reader, and someone who uses it primarily for consumption all have different needs. And someone's personal weighting of those things determine which product is "best" for them. I could easily see someone needing OneNote (and MS Office in general) jumping on W8 just for that. Same thing for a graphic artist who wants access to desktop versions of tools they typically use. How many of them there are and how well W8 tablets do more pedestrian things will determine their success, not our discussion.
2) We're comparing something that doesn't exist to something that does. Unless you all intend to go out and buy an Acer W500 with 4 hours of battery life and that weighs two pounds this is at best a theoretical conversation until actual W8 tablets are in people's hands and can be evaluated in real-world use. And don't forget the Pro tablets come with all the stuff we love about Windows: 1) driver incompatibilities, 2) control panel, and 3) multiple menus, clicks, and "enters," to launch or access something. The UI formally known as Metro doesn't hide the fact that there's a huge resource intensive hulk of an OS to be tamed running in the background. How many general-use iPad candidates do you think will find that acceptable? And they’re MS’s bogie, not the 20% of the tablet market that’s using Android.
3) Until the complete feature set is known for both RT and Pro tablets and what apps will be available to them initially you can't have a price-value conversation. I highly doubt entry-level consumer targeted RT tablets will do some of things being discussed. Similarly if a loaded Pro tablet is $1K that changes the conversation when comparing it to a $500 Android tablet.
I'll check back in with you guys once the tablets are in people's hands for a while and then we can have a legitimate conversation of the pros and cons of each.
BTW, here's an excerpt of a review of the HP TouchPad when it was first released. Just because a monolithic company launches something its success isn't guaranteed. It’s too early to say whether W8 tablets will be a Zune or an XBox 360 for MS and no one here can do anything but proffer an opinion as to which way it will go.
"You would almost think that webOS had been designed for tablets from the very beginning. It feels more native to tablets than any other software on any other tablet, despite being an almost exact translation of the phone interface (minus almost all of the bezel gestures). Multitasking on anything else feels almost stupid compared to Cards. An open app is a card. You can stack them, sort them, re-arrange them, and when you're done, close them. Juggling a bunch makes you feel like you're getting stuff done. Palm's big tablet adaptation, panes, is a straight riff on the iPad Twitter UI. So in email and other complex apps, you slide layers—inboxes, message lists, actual messages—back and forth to move between them. Notifications, which pop down from the top of the scree, let you flip through the pile, one at a time, without ever opening the app-handy if you get IMs from five different people. They're great ideas."

BarryH_GEG said:
Three things are missing from this conversation to make it worthwhile.
1) Everyone uses their tablets differently. A gamer, heavy productivity user, graphic artist, reader, and someone who uses it primarily for consumption all have different needs. And someone's personal weighting of those things determine which product is "best" for them. I could easily see someone needing OneNote (and MS Office in general) jumping on W8 just for that. Same thing for a graphic artist who wants access to desktop versions of tools they typically use. How many of them there are and how well W8 tablets do more pedestrian things will determine their success, not our discussion.
2) We're comparing something that doesn't exist to something that does. Unless you all intend to go out and buy an Acer W500 with 4 hours of battery life and that weighs two pounds this is at best a theoretical conversation until actual W8 tablets are in people's hands and can be evaluated in real-world use. And don't forget the Pro tablets come with all the stuff we love about Windows: 1) driver incompatibilities, 2) control panel, and 3) multiple menus, clicks, and "enters," to launch or access something. The UI formally known as Metro doesn't hide the fact that there's a huge resource intensive hulk of an OS to be tamed running in the background. How many general-use iPad candidates do you think will find that acceptable? And they’re MS’s bogie, not the 20% of the tablet market that’s using Android.
3) Until the complete feature set is known for both RT and Pro tablets and what apps will be available to them initially you can't have a price-value conversation. I highly doubt entry-level consumer targeted RT tablets will do some of things being discussed. Similarly if a loaded Pro tablet is $1K that changes the conversation when comparing it to a $500 Android tablet.
I'll check back in with you guys once the tablets are in people's hands for a while and then we can have a legitimate conversation of the pros and cons of each.
BTW, here's an excerpt of a review of the HP TouchPad when it was first released. Just because a monolithic company launches something its success isn't guaranteed. It’s too early to say whether W8 tablets will be a Zune or an XBox 360 for MS and no one here can do anything but proffer an opinion as to which way it will go.
"You would almost think that webOS had been designed for tablets from the very beginning. It feels more native to tablets than any other software on any other tablet, despite being an almost exact translation of the phone interface (minus almost all of the bezel gestures). Multitasking on anything else feels almost stupid compared to Cards. An open app is a card. You can stack them, sort them, re-arrange them, and when you're done, close them. Juggling a bunch makes you feel like you're getting stuff done. Palm's big tablet adaptation, panes, is a straight riff on the iPad Twitter UI. So in email and other complex apps, you slide layers—inboxes, message lists, actual messages—back and forth to move between them. Notifications, which pop down from the top of the scree, let you flip through the pile, one at a time, without ever opening the app-handy if you get IMs from five different people. They're great ideas."
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
With the exception of one person, we are all on the same page here. Below is an excerpt from the OP. To me, it overlaps very well with your points and my argument. Somehow, this was turned into "How dare you put down Note10.1? Windows 8 tablets are DOA!" bickery.
With the new tablets coming designed specifically with Window 8 in mind, I think Microsoft has risen the par on tablet competition. As the upcoming Samsung Series 5 hybrid tablet, for example, is coming with a $650 based price, 11 hrs battery life (with the optional keyboard), 750g weight, and can run all window software. Even though I have not seen, touch or used one of these new machines, the fact that Window 8 has turned my 6 years old tablet into a brand new machine is exciting for me.
Please don't get me wrong. I think the Samsung Note 10.1 is a decent machine which I will definitely keep. I bought it because I can carry it all day and not worry about battery, and I hardly need to run any PC applications these days when I am out. More importantly if I plan to use the PC all day, I probably need to bring the charger with me which will bring the weight up to 1kg or more. Since I carry my camera with me all day, the Note 10.1 is a better choice for me.
However, if you are looking into serious note taking and also need to run pc applications, I think the Window 8 tablets may be a good alternative. We will all know if this is true when the machines are officially announced in late Oct.
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Click to collapse

[email protected] said:
WOW!! I wished someone had warned me about troll living here and that no comments other than good Note 10.1 comments are allowed in this forum. This will be my last post in the forum, leaving you alone to harass other people.
Best wishes!
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Click to collapse
[email protected], welcome. Sorry about the resident W8 Hater. I recommend to just ignore him.
Thank you for sharing your experience with your Note(s) and your tablets with Windows 8! My experience with my Note 10.1 is pretty much the same as yours. I am really looking forward to trying out a Surface Pro or one of the other new W8 tablets that are coming out. Your post has just seriously reinforced that!
When you use One Note on a tablet, does it give you inking features for drawing pictures and hand writing notes similar to what S-Note does? I have W8 and One Note, but no Ink-enabled device to put them on to play with it myself.

tenderidol said:
With the exception of one person, we are all on the same page here.
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Click to collapse
Who are "we?" I have no idea what everyone here's needs are. I also have no idea what the "cons" are going to be that will without doubt go along with the rosy PR blurb “pros” being thrown out. I'm in marketing so perhaps I'm less susceptible to spin than some of you guys because I create it. MS lost their way and have a bunch of simultaneous "Hail Mary's" launching concurrently (Cloud, W8 the OS, and W8 the tablet). I wish them nothing but the best. But I'd like to see some traction gained before drinking their Kool-Aid and declaring their success. And that will take months to realize. I'm a heavy productivity user and use OneNote, MS Office, and SharePoint so therefore a candidate for a W8 tablet. Only I'm not as eager to throw out my fairly evolved Android device to experience V1 of the h/w and s/w of an alternative. Months from now I may own a W8 tablet. Based on my personal needs and usage there's absolutely no rush. You guys can go first and if the world's not flat I'll follow you.

BarryH_GEG said:
Who are "we?" I have no idea what everyone here's needs are. I also have no idea what the "cons" are going to be that will without doubt go along with the rosy PR blurb “pros” being thrown out. I'm in marketing so perhaps I'm less susceptible to spin than some of you guys because I create it. MS lost their way and have a bunch of simultaneous "Hail Mary's" launching concurrently (Cloud, W8 the OS, and W8 the tablet). I wish them nothing but the best. But I'd like to see some traction gained before drinking their Kool-Aid and declaring their success. And that will take months to realize. I'm a heavy productivity user and use OneNote, MS Office, and SharePoint so therefore a candidate for a W8 tablet. Only I'm not as eager to throw out my fairly evolved Android device to experience V1 of the h/w and s/w of an alternative. Months from now I may own a W8 tablet. Based on my personal needs and usage there's absolutely no rush. You guys can go first and if the world's not flat I'll follow you.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
"We" as in "people who currently own the Note 10.1 and wanted to try and see the potential of upcoming Windows 8 tablets without forming any assumptions based on others' opinions". As you can see, nobody is saying that this will be a huge success, it's going to be "superior" or will definitely trump other tablets, etc. Let's see if the potential of the device is met by the hardware and the software first. As I stated, I have my reservations for the Atom-based CPU and 2 GB RAM in the Series 5. If it can't handle the load, I won't be moving over to the Series 7, because it's too heavy and pricey for me. I thought this was the original discussion.

tenderidol said:
see the potential
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Promise and potential are very different from practice and reality. And sometimes when they collide it isn’t pretty. Since this entire conversation is theoretical there can never be a decisive conclusion. I really don't have an opinion and won't until I can personally play with a W8 tablet and see how well it does the things I need it to do. Even then, my conclusion will only apply to me and my individual needs.
Think about this. Here's the iPad demographic.
iPad ownership is skewed toward young customers, with 27% of owners between 25 and 34. The average iPad owner is affluent, with a median income of $85,000 a year. Most importantly, they are much more likely to be buying things.
Don't you think that audience is using MS Office and OneNote professionally to earn the higher median income they do? Apple's sold 100MM iPads with no native access to MS Office. Taking a broader view I don't think it's the "killer app" many of you believe it will be. Especially if it comes at the price of a less refined h/w and s/w experience. There's also a certain cache that comes from owning an iPad. Android tablet owners tend to be classified as rugged individualists and technology enthusiasts. What will W8 tablet owners be? People that need access to MS apps? Pretty low on the "cool" scale, no? There’s more to a product’s success than just functionality.
Just food for thought while we're discussing the potential mass-market (in other words, not us) success of W8 tablets.

BarryH_GEG said:
Just food for thought while we're discussing the potential mass-market (in other words, not us) success of W8 tablets.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Which we weren't until some folks hijacked the thread and went totally OT from the OP...

For those who insist the Windows 8 tablets will be superior, please read:

We have had a number of people coming into our Forum praising the upcoming Windows 8 tablets and putting down our beloved SGN10.1. Before any SGN10.1 owners fall for their hyperbole, please consider the following from PCWorld Magazine:
http://www.pcworld.com/businesscent..._8_tablets_have_what_it_takes_to_succeed.html
Potential Stumbling Blocks
There are a number of issues that could make Windows 8 tablets dead on arrival, or at least a very tough sell. Two of the biggest will be price, and confusion over differences between Windows on ARM (WOA) tablets, and x86/x64 architecture tablets.
ARM-based devices will probably be better tablets than their x86/x64 counterparts. WOA tablets will most likely be lighter, cooler, have longer battery life, and--most importantly--be cheaper. ARM-based tablets will be more on par with the competing tablets already in the market like the iPad, Motorola Xoom, Samsung Galaxy Tab, and others.
That all sounds great, but WOA tablets also come with significant handicaps that nullify most of what makes a Windows 8 tablet appealing. For example, WOA tablets can’t run traditional Windows software--they require apps written for the Metro UI.
Wes Miller from GetWired.com and Directions on Microsoft poses the question, “For enterprises who will have to rewrite their (non-Web) applications in Metro for WOA anyway, the question comes up, "why wouldn't I rewrite it for iOS instead?", since there is no way to run non-Microsoft Win32 apps on WOA.”
The bigger issue for WOA tablets is that Microsoft has revealed they are intended for “unmanaged environments”. What that translates to is that WOA tablets will not be able to connect to Windows domains and be managed like x86/x64 Windows 8 tablets, and other Windows systems.
Amobi says that there are arguments to be made for and against WOA tablets, and it’s still too early for a final verdict. But, he stresses, “If they cant join domains--game over.”
No worries. We still have x86/x64 Windows 8 tablets to fall back on, right? True, but there are some caveats.
An x86/x64 tablet is just squeezing a notebook or desktop into a touchscreen, flat-panel form factor. That has advantages, but we also know that running Windows takes a fair amount of processing horsepower and memory. While it may be possible to run Windows 8 with less RAM, 4GB is probably the minimum for acceptable performance. That is four times what most ARM tablets use.
When you build a tablet on x86/x64 architecture, and try to beef up the RAM to deliver adequate performance, the tablet starts to face other issues. As previously mentioned, users want tablets that are thin, light, and have endurance to last all day on a single charge. It is unlikely that x86/x64 tablets can truly compete with ARM-based rivals in these areas.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As I have stated, W8 Tablets will be stuck in the middle. RT too underpowered to run true Windows software and Pro too small to run true Windows software properly.
DOA.
Hopefully these facts have taken some of the emotion out of this argument.
The SGN10.1 is and will be the most bang for your buck you can get in a pen based tablet for quite a while. If we get the Note 2 software, that will be even more true than it is now. No need for buyer's remorse. You made the right call.

Good thing most reviews are **** or we wouldn't have got the Note 10.1 based on reviews, amiright?
Quit white knighting the Note. It's a good tablet but there will come along better ones.
Every review of every tablet has a slant. There are no unbiased professional reviews. Or amateur reviews for that matter.

Nefariouss said:
Good thing most reviews are **** or we wouldn't have got the Note 10.1 based on reviews, amiright?
Quit white knighting the Note. It's a good tablet but there will come along better ones.
Every review of every tablet has a slant. There are no unbiased professional reviews. Or amateur reviews for that matter.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So you are claiming this review is innacurate? Please point out what you specifically find to be false? Those are not opinions but just facts about how Windows 8 will work in a tablet environment. The reviewer is not discussing the merits or inadequacies of any particular tablet.
If you can debunk any of those claims now is your chance.
As far as "white knighting" the SGN10.1, this IS the SGN10.1 forum is it not? Maybe you got lost? The better question would be why are Windows 8 fanboys coming to our forum to disparage our device? I have drawn two conclusions regarding our visiting Windows 8 protagonists thus far. They are very enthusiastic and they are very thin skinned. Can you imagine someone coming to OUR forum to tell us the SGN10.1 is inadequate and then calling ME a troll when I dare disagree?
Sent from my GT-N8013 using Tapatalk 2

I can't believe you rose to the bait in [email protected]'s original thread. He's comparing old-school Windows tablets that he upgraded to W8 and declaring victory for the platform going forward. People have been posting screen-on times for the Note of over 10 hours. An earlier Windows tablet would be lucky to clear 4 and weigh easily twice as much to do it. Like the rest of you I made a substantial investment in the Note knowing W8 tablets were around the corner. The reason I did it is that every new platform that's launched goes through start-up issues, suffers from lack of refinement, and has a dearth of apps in the beginning. If I jump on the W8 tablet band wagon it’ll be months after their launched and I feel no urgency to dump the Note which will without doubt continue to be a better consumption device for the foreseeable future. If your use of a tablet is 75+% complex inking and MS Office apps maybe you should jump on W8 Pro faster than me and join [email protected]
The challenge with W8 is that you can't make a generalized comparison to Android. The RT tablets are going to be low-feature consumer versions and the Pro versions higher-end (and priced) productivity devices. It's too early to say but I doubt a $300 RT tablet will deliver the stellar Wacom-driven inking experience [email protected] is hoping for. Similarly the starting price for a Pro tablet is probably for a pretty barren model. By the time you upgrade the various h/w components I can see them easily reaching the $1K that you originally suggested for a “loaded” model.
Regardless, the fat lady won't sing for at least a couple of months until after they're in people's hands so it's way too early to get in to a discussion about "my tablet (or OS) can beat up yours.” Why [email protected] decided to come to an Android forum just to share his personal opinions of his old-school Windows hardware is beyond me.

I'm a bait-riser from way back :silly:
I just get tired of the breathless hyperbole from these W8 disciples. I wouldn't have minded if he had just talked about how well his old tablets were running on W8, but he put our tablet down as second best and I can't have that

Nefariouss said:
Good thing most reviews are **** or we wouldn't have got the Note 10.1 based on reviews, amiright?
Quit white knighting the Note. It's a good tablet but there will come along better ones.
Every review of every tablet has a slant. There are no unbiased professional reviews. Or amateur reviews for that matter.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Excellent point! If you take a look at Verge's "professional review", you wouldn't touch the Note10.1 with a ten-foot pole. Then again, here we are talking about it happily. Note 5.4 was declared DOA by almost every "professional reviewer" and we know how that went.
Let's wait and see before moving into a cult-like behavior over a tablet.

Even on the arm tablets the windows 8 interface will be present. There will be full office 2013, OneNote, and all metro apps. Plus it seems to be really smooth and slick on the reviews.
And this without the biggest thing. In one move the windows ecosystem will be bigger than the Android ecosystem. Apps will not be the super stretched phone apps, and but rather full tablet apps (witness the xda app as on example).
Does this mean I regret buying the note? No not all. But it does mean that once the windows 8 tablets are out I will not be taking it in to work or on trips. It will become more consumption based then productivity.
Lets not pretend that windows will somehow disappear just because you think it will be doa. Even vista sold more than all android tablets combined.
Sent from my GT-N8013 using xda app-developers app
---------- Post added at 05:43 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:38 PM ----------
Without even reading the full article I know the claim about windows requiring beefy hardware is bull****. I I have run windows 8 on a touch smart tx2 with 2 gigs, and on a q6600 with 1 gig and an i7 with 16 gigs. And I am running the note right now. Even on the touch smart win8 was smoother and performed better. I sadly the ntrig drivers don't work and the thing weighs a ton, and but the Clover trail smart pc from Samsung willost likely have a better experience than the note.
Also multitasking. I real split screen for almost every app.
And the finishing blow? OneNote. Nothing compares with OneNote.
Sent from my GT-N8013 using xda app-developers app
---------- Post added at 05:46 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:43 PM ----------
I do not have any idea why people are ignoring the published price of the Samsung tablets. Samsung has already said that the smart pc with Clover trail will be 650 with 64gig storage. We know it won't cost significantly more than top of the line android tablets, and will have free OneNote mx, and have comparable weight and battery life (if I believe samsung) and will use the same spen.
Sent from my GT-N8013 using xda app-developers app

oh mitchellvii. Poor, poor, mitchellvii.
Owning both a Win8 tab [Asus Eee Slate] and (obviously) the GNote10, I can say that no matter how hard Samsung or Android try, Windows is the true multi-tasker. No way around it. Also, definitely more capable to do ANY task.
The GNote10 does have it's advantages. Prolly the same reasons I bought one is the same reasons y'all bought one. Battery life, weight, slim, no fan, s-pen, and I guess Android based.
Just because Windows is hands down better doesn't mean the GNote is inadequate.
Don't be mad that the GNote is second best to a Windows tablet, be mad that the GNote will always be second best to an iPad.

I have my N10.1 3G for 3 weeks now, it accompanied me to travels and never ever failed..Neither failed my wife' s N10.1 her (she is more the gaming fraction in my family )
I worked easily in the plane in plane mode with stylus having four apps open, read some kindle books, diagnosed HR X-Rays preloaded, drawed comments on them for my junior docs, prepared some drafts for lectures, in summary the time was highly productive, more than ever achievable with my Vaio Z 14 supernotebook.
Why ? Its almost impossible to decently work with a notebook on the plane, at least in eco class .......
With the N10.1 You can !
With a fair data roaming fee I read my newspapers and PC/Android mags at breakfast and dinner, follow my beloved Ida community, post, answer emails and so forth.
I could do last aactivities also with my SGS III, but I LOVE the big screen and multitasking, I can do everything I did not do with my Note, this was finally too small for me for serious work.
But why am I still curious of the Win8 Surface?
For my lectures worldwide I need a fully functional PowerPoint including the capability to play embedded vids (every third slide is a vid!) and edit every slide as a would do it on my PC. I did not find an Android app capable of THIS. And I need fully functional Word and Excel (not stripped versions)
Second: I need connectibility to standard beamers with the good old VGA-D-sub connector
All this my beloved N10.1 can't give me.
If Surface Win8 provides these features I will buy it and be happy working with it, but my N10.1 will always be Nr. 1 (until Note 10.1 / 2 arrives :angel:)

mitchellvii said:
I'm a bait-riser from way back :silly:
I just get tired of the breathless hyperbole from these W8 disciples. I wouldn't have minded if he had just talked about how well his old tablets were running on W8, but he put our tablet down as second best and I can't have that
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No one is providing breathless hyperbole, everyone I have seen here is cautiously optimistic at best about Windows 8 tablets. If you think that's fanboyism then perhaps you need to take a good hard look in the mirror. No one here, including [email protected], has bashed the Note 10.1 in any way. You need to separate praising another OS from praising a specific device, and both of those from bashing our device. I love my Note 10.1 but there are obviously things it can't do, and to deny that is stupid. I do agree with you overall that Windows 8 tablets appear to be stuck on two extremes with Pro and RT and not able to meet the middle ground that the Note 10.1 reaches, but I think with time and competition they will be at least competitive with Android tablets on at least 2 or 3 out of functionality, battery life, and form factor, and value.
Personally I don't think I need my tablet to be a full Windows PC and do full multitasking with floating windows and the like, but that's because I've got plenty of beefy systems for real work and my tablet is a great supplement to them. Also I use Linux primarily and Windows only for gaming but that's a separate point. For those that want or need to have one device that does everything, a Windows 8 Pro tablet may be that device. You'll compromise on battery life and weight but gain a lot of extra functionality. And you keep ignoring the possibility of Atom powered Windows 8 Pro tablets that could be competitive on battery life and weight too (not equal to ARM, but at least in the same ballpark) in addition to cost.
Honestly, I think everything that can be speculated about W8 at this point as been said and we should have a moratorium on further discussion here until the first devices are actually out.
Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2

My "other" portable device next to the OG G-Tab in its BT keyboard case. It weighs the same as the Note, runs W7 Ultimate (for now), has all the MS Office apps including Access, packs a 256GB Samsung SSD, has a 1600x768 display, GPS, and a built in VZW card. The Android tablet's a better consumption device and the VAIO's a better productivity device. They both are adequate in reverse. Which I travel with depends on what I'll be doing. If I had to pick one I'd pick the Note because it's more versatile and can "fake" productivity better than the VAIO can "fake" consumption. Who knows? Maybe a W8 tablet will end up being the perfect blend.

mitchellvii said:
We have had a number of people coming into our Forum praising the upcoming Windows 8 tablets and putting down our beloved SGN10.1. Before any SGN10.1 owners fall for their hyperbole, please consider the following from PCWorld Magazine:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The reason you are getting such a cross-comparison is because the SGN 10.1 is marketed as an alternative to Windows tablets. People buy the SGN 10.1 to do things that an IPad can't with handwriting functions. People want to know if the 10.1 really fills the gap between the IPad and Windows devices.
I think the general consensus is that for light note taking and sketching it does and for hardcore professionals (like lawyers) it doesn't.
I loved the Note 10.1... but I returned it as I'm in the latter category. I need seemless cloud and app integration.
FWIW, I went ahead and put the IPad 3 screen up against the Note. It really would be difficult for me to accept a lower resolution than the Note 10.1 provides. The new Slate 5 is going to have a worse PPI than the Note. I don't think I'll be purchasing that device.

crazeco said:
the SGN 10.1 is marketed as an alternative to Windows tablets.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's actually marketed as a creativity and consumption device.
“Our goal with the Samsung GALAXY Note 10.1 was simple – redefine the tablet experience,” said Tim Baxter, President, Samsung Electronics America. “The S Pen offers both active content creation as well as passive content consumption, while the Multiscreen capability finally enables true multitasking. For the user, the resulting experience is completely new and quite unexpected.”
http://www.samsung.com/us/news/20228
But you raise an interesting question. How will companies like Samsung, Asus, Acer, and Lenovo market and position their W8 tablets, especially RT, when they all offer similarly priced and featured Android tablets? The only one that can/will go balls out and say W8 is better than Android is MS. Maybe that's what they were afraid and what caused them to build the Surface on their own.

BarryH_GEG said:
It's actually marketed as a creativity and consumption device.
“Our goal with the Samsung GALAXY Note 10.1 was simple – redefine the tablet experience,” said Tim Baxter, President, Samsung Electronics America. “The S Pen offers both active content creation as well as passive content consumption, while the Multiscreen capability finally enables true multitasking. For the user, the resulting experience is completely new and quite unexpected.”
http://www.samsung.com/us/news/20228
But you raise an interesting question. How will companies like Samsung, Asus, Acer, and Lenovo market and position their W8 tablets, especially RT, when they all offer similarly priced and featured Android tablets? The only one that can/will go balls out and say W8 is better than Android is MS. Maybe that's what they were afraid and what caused them to build the Surface on their own.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I stand by my statement that the SGN 10.1 is marketed as an alternative to the W8 tablets like the Surface because this is the (earlier) Microsoft press release:
"Surface is designed to seamlessly transition between consumption and creation, without compromise."
http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/news/press/2012/jun12/06-18announce.aspx

crazeco said:
I stand by my statement that the SGN 10.1 is marketed as an alternative to the W8 tablets like the Surface because this is the (earlier) Microsoft press release:
"Surface is designed to seamlessly transition between consumption and creation, without compromise."
http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/news/press/2012/jun12/06-18announce.aspx
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Don't you mean that you see the Note 10.1 as an alternative to W8 tablets? Because from what I read, the statements from Samsung don't really say that at all. You're using a statement from Microsoft (who, last I checked does not make nor market the Note 10.1) as the basis for how Samsung is marketing its device.
Uh, forgive me, but that makes no sense. How Samsung attempts to sell its device is how it is marketed, not how people and other companies respond to it. I think the point you're actually making is that the Note 10.1, competitively speaking, is seen as an alternative device to a W8 tablet, but that's not the same thing as saying that's how it's being marketed. Samsung hasn't said flat out that they want it to be an alternative to W8. They're aiming it at students and businesspeople for creative tasks, general multi-tasking, and note-taking. Somehow I think a W8 tablet should be able to do far more than that, productivity-wise.
Just my two cents, though...

wingzero2085 said:
How Samsung attempts to sell its device is how it is marketed
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
To add to your post, PR's crafted months in advance. The words Samsung chose were with clear knowledge of the imminent announcement of the Ativ(s). It'll be interesting to see how competing Android and Windows tablets are marketed and positioned by the different OEM's. Kind of like a single dealership selling Honda's and Toyota's in the same showroom.

wingzero2085 said:
Don't you mean that you see the Note 10.1 as an alternative to W8 tablets? Because from what I read, the statements from Samsung don't really say that at all. You're using a statement from Microsoft (who, last I checked does not make nor market the Note 10.1) as the basis for how Samsung is marketing its device.
Uh, forgive me, but that makes no sense. How Samsung attempts to sell its device is how it is marketed, not how people and other companies respond to it. I think the point you're actually making is that the Note 10.1, competitively speaking, is seen as an alternative device to a W8 tablet, but that's not the same thing as saying that's how it's being marketed. Samsung hasn't said flat out that they want it to be an alternative to W8. They're aiming it at students and businesspeople for creative tasks, general multi-tasking, and note-taking. Somehow I think a W8 tablet should be able to do far more than that, productivity-wise.
Just my two cents, though...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Microsoft's PR came first. Samsung responded by mirroring Microsoft's PR.
Microsoft on June 18, 2012: "Surface is designed to seamlessly transition between consumption and creation, without compromise."
Samsung on August 15, 2012: “Our goal with the Samsung GALAXY Note 10.1 was simple – redefine the tablet experience,” said Tim Baxter, President, Samsung Electronics America. “The S Pen offers both active content creation as well as passive content consumption..."
I'm happy to have a debate with you regarding which device will better achieve "consumption" and "creation" - but I'm not going to debate facts. It's a fact that Samsung is marketing this device to the same type of consumer that Microsoft is marketing a pen supported Surface tablet. That's why threads like this exist in the Samsung Note 10.1 forum, because the SGN 10.1 is an alternative to the forthcoming Windows 8 tablet.

My personal config will be:
Win8 Surface Pro to run full "Office" and special medical apps not available for android (CAT-Scan-Viewer etc.) + connect to beamers for lectures (since it has Miniport-Display plug)
+
Beloved SGN 10.1 on the go and during lectures remote control Win8 surface Pro :laugh::laugh::laugh:
Makes 1,6 kg to carry around ..........................

troed said:
My personal config will be:
Win8 Surface Pro to run full "Office" and special medical apps not available for android (CAT-Scan-Viewer etc.) + connect to beamers for lectures (since it has Miniport-Display plug)
+
Beloved SGN 10.1 on the go and during lectures remote control Win8 surface Pro :laugh::laugh::laugh:
Makes 1,6 kg to carry around ..........................
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Funny... I have the same plan for very similar reasons.

tenderidol said:
Funny... I have the same plan for very similar reasons.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Honestly I don't see why you would want something other than the Surface Pro in that situation. Its going to have similar battery life, better pen support and will not weight a lot more. Not to mention higher res screen.
Personally I'll be getting the Ativ Smart PC (the atom one with the low res screen) to replace the note. I have a student I can gift the note 10.1 to if he does a good job with an upcoming conference. SmartPC will probably be my go to laptop/tablet hybrid device.
I would sell a right leg for a kindle paperwhite with an active digitizer and direct export to OneNote.

Ouya vs The World (Comparisons and why Ouya has much competition)

I figured nobody else had started this thread already, and it'll be a great starting point for discussions of Ouya up against it's brothers-in-Androids in your market. This is NOT an Ouya bashing thread, merely a compare and contrast between the newly flooding market of miniature Android powered devices.
Now, to begin, I would like to first point out that I do own multiple Android powered devices, but none which are mentioned here in this post, so please don't cry "fanboy" as I have 0 allegiance to anything except Android. And yes, I'm kicking myself for not getting in on the Ouya kickstarter (even though I had multiple chances).
Ouya is poised to become the next big multimedia console to enter the consumer market and home, and it's got quite the uphill battle ahead of it. There's already plenty of small low-powered Android devices either announced or already released which fill one niche or another. While Ouya markets itself primarily as a game console, the fact that it runs Android means that it's got to compete with every other low-powered Android device which feasibly can accomplish everything the Ouya can. I'll expound on this further.
Ouya vs ...:
Google TV. Starting at the same price point for the VIZIO Co-Star, this device provides more than enough power in a small frame to power your perfect TV setup, providing internet access as well as local network streaming for your entertainment needs. Now, while the Google TV platform is marketed as a STB, it's still a competitor in mild/moderate gaming as well as web content accessibility. With the fact that Google TV is synonymous with "everything Google, now on your TV," Ouya's name will lend to confusion as to what it really is for the mass market in the beginning, hurting intial adoption rates outside the Android community.
Win: Google TV, brand recognition.
Raspberry Pi. Starting at a paltry $25, this little low-powered Android stock device is actually quite a surprising little power house. All manner of network appliances have been developed around this hardware, and with the drivers for most of the hardware being provided for other flavors of Linux, it's range and scope is expanding fast. While again, only techies will really know what the Pi is, it's heavily marketed (ignore the fact i'm using this term loosely) towards Android and computing enthusiasts as a replacement for all those things that are big, hot, and noisy. This little gem has already received more builds of Linux than I can count, a port of XBMC that can easily handle streaming 1080p without a sweat, it really comes down to accessibility. In the long run the Ouya is pricier, and for those just looking for a cheap XBMC device, you can't beat the Pi at $25. That and it's kawaii-small.
Win: Raspberry Pi, price point.
nVIDIA Shield. In the closest thing to apples to apples comparison of devices based on how they're marketed, we have the nVIDIA Shield, the Tegra 4 powered nVIDIA Android handheld gaming console (announced). This little gamer's wet dream is a powerhouse in your hands, and throw in the ability to play your PC games on the handheld thanks to special integration with the nVIDIA graphics processor on your PC, and you've got an almost universal system to enjoy anywhere, anytime. Again, being that it's Android, don't expect that it won't be without it's ports of XBMC and many many other wonderful pieces of software to further enhance the cost-to-value ratio of this handheld. Being that this is the closest competitor to the Ouya, it's worth noting that there are a few caveats to the Shield which bring it down. As of this writing, the "Play PC" feature is heavily Steam oriented (not a bad thing), will likely require Multi-Band Wireless N (MIMO) (not prevalent, likely have to buy one), and the biggest bullet to chew on, a whopping GeForce GTX 650 (cheapest on Newegg as of writing $110 new) in order to enjoy this device to it's fullest. While the Ouya lacks this functionality to begin with, it brings it down, but this feature feels more like a power-play by nVIDIA than something that could end up becoming mainstream.
Win: Ouya, will integrate with everything you already have provided tools and/or apps are provided to link it, no need to upgrade everything around it to make full use of it.
Mods: Sorry for the perceived dupe topic, I was at work getting calls every 15 minutes interrupting me for upwards half an hour after I started writing this just after lunch.

Reply
I myself was wondering how the similar, android-based GameStick would fair against the Ouya. It has similar characteristics and from what I have seen will be released to those who pre-ordered around the same time as those who backed the Ouya.
Although I have seen a few comments about the Ouya and GameStick as being (or not being) competitive, I would like to here what your guys' thoughts are on the topic.
GameStick was also first on kickstarter, check it out:
(Read the updates as well, there were some major ones!)
->GameStick Page<-

Raspberry Pi is an educational device,and can't handle anything worthwhile.

When i was doing the backing for Ouya, i wasn't really aware of Gamestick project itself. Now had a check on the video and both the guys looks same in terms of strategy and Games, even the game store !
But i assume the Ouya hardware is bit better than the Gamestick one.
I could feel only one challenge they going to face - GAMES !! and more GAMES!
But we all know - we all will end up in flashing a custom mod into this thing :laugh:

Feelings about the OUYA
I just hope that the OUYA is all it has been hyped up to be. I don't want to see a box with some Allwinner A10, a gig of RAM, and a modded version of the Google Play store. I want to see a full on Android gaming console with dev support and proprietary games and add-ons. I really hope that when the OUYA gets dropped, it has a major impact on the console market.

BasedChefJoeyB said:
I just hope that the OUYA is all it has been hyped up to be. I don't want to see a box with some Allwinner A10, a gig of RAM, and a modded version of the Google Play store. I want to see a full on Android gaming console with dev support and proprietary games and add-ons. I really hope that when the OUYA gets dropped, it has a major impact on the console market.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It doesn't have the power or support to make an impact on the realm that Microsoft, Sony, and Nintendo occupy.

cmdrdredd said:
It doesn't have the power or support to make an impact on the realm that Microsoft, Sony, and Nintendo occupy.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Because obviously we all want to play call of duty 14 or whatever braindead sequel is served up on the pop machines (you know, just like pop music, no creativity and sold to the herd of sheeps)
I look forward to some real creativity in gaming which hopefully the indie dev will be able to bring to Ouya
Sent from my IceColdJelly HOX via Tapatalk 2

Raverbunny said:
Because obviously we all want to play call of duty 14 or whatever braindead sequel is served up on the pop machines (you know, just like pop music, no creativity and sold to the herd of sheeps)
I look forward to some real creativity in gaming which hopefully the indie dev will be able to bring to Ouya
Sent from my IceColdJelly HOX via Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I would love to see the Ouya find it's niche as the premier indie console, gawd knows none of the big three (M$, Sony, Nintendo) have really welcomed the indie devs. Check into the "Indie Game" movie, and you'll see what I'm saying. If Ouya welcomes the indie developers (which it sounds like they are), then they'll have plenty of backing from new blood which will eventually draw the bigger names to capitalize on a market they can make more in.

BasedChefJoeyB said:
I just hope that the OUYA is all it has been hyped up to be. I don't want to see a box with some Allwinner A10, a gig of RAM, and a modded version of the Google Play store. I want to see a full on Android gaming console with dev support and proprietary games and add-ons. I really hope that when the OUYA gets dropped, it has a major impact on the console market.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
NVIDIA Tegra3 quad-core processor
1GB RAM
8GB of internal flash storage, expandable via USB 2.0 port
Up to 1080p HD (via HDMI)
5.1 surround sound
WiFi 802.11 b/g/n, and Ethernet port
Bluetooth
Micro USB port
Wireless Bluetooth controller with standard game controls and touchpad
the web says this..

I'm not impressed by the examples. Google TV is Google's take on Roku, Boxee Box, and Apple TV. Not a game console.
My Raspberry Pi, while freaking cool, is most definitely NOT a gaming console. It doesn't have the power, the games, or any of that. It's not even a computer, it's a little wonder box that I put in the middle of projects.
The Shield is pretty cool I'd say, and yes, it's a gaming console. But I keep my Nexus 4 on hand always and I like to keep my pockets lightweight and I don't need one extra gadget or pocket filled. And so I don't understand why people say Shield will have a better fate than the OUYA. In the end it's just an Android with an excellent processor and a fancy controller slapped on it. If it's more than $250 there's no way I'll buy it. I don't care about the PC game streaming. It's a completely different social segment from what I can tell. And most of you, I can guarantee, don't even have the specified graphics setup to begin with.
This is a TV console for $100. OUYAs only professional opposors at the moment: Wii Mini ($100), and gamestick.tv ($80)... I suppose Xbox 360 has a few options, but they will end up costing you at least $200 to enjoy without games from my person experience.
And maybe, a budget Xbox quite soon. But you and me both know that the Xbox "720" and/or PS4 will be very expensive, maybe $400 or so. And the Wii U is already pricey, low functionality and low on the games. And Nintendo is paying the price.
Google TV, Roku, Boxee Box, Apple TV are Streaming Boxes, which all somehow cost as much as this fully featured box. I enjoy my Roku but it can barely get Angry Birds right... Angry Birds.
Microsoft and Sonys latest consoles as well as the new Valve segment are most likely destined for the mid hundreds ($300-$550)
The Xperia Play was unfortunately DOA, and even the promising PS Vita and nVidia Shield are absolutely positively handheld systems, not TV consoles.
So we have a chance of dominating this side of the market if we can beat the experience of other $100 gadgets that hook up to your TV, feature, function, and marketing wise.

Cynagen said:
I figured nobody else had started this thread already, and it'll be a great starting point for discussions of Ouya up against it's brothers-in-Androids in your market. This is NOT an Ouya bashing thread, merely a compare and contrast between the newly flooding market of miniature Android powered devices.
Now, to begin, I would like to first point out that I do own multiple Android powered devices, but none which are mentioned here in this post, so please don't cry "fanboy" as I have 0 allegiance to anything except Android. And yes, I'm kicking myself for not getting in on the Ouya kickstarter (even though I had multiple chances).
Ouya is poised to become the next big multimedia console to enter the consumer market and home, and it's got quite the uphill battle ahead of it. There's already plenty of small low-powered Android devices either announced or already released which fill one niche or another. While Ouya markets itself primarily as a game console, the fact that it runs Android means that it's got to compete with every other low-powered Android device which feasibly can accomplish everything the Ouya can. I'll expound on this further.
Ouya vs ...:
Google TV. Starting at the same price point for the VIZIO Co-Star, this device provides more than enough power in a small frame to power your perfect TV setup, providing internet access as well as local network streaming for your entertainment needs. Now, while the Google TV platform is marketed as a STB, it's still a competitor in mild/moderate gaming as well as web content accessibility. With the fact that Google TV is synonymous with "everything Google, now on your TV," Ouya's name will lend to confusion as to what it really is for the mass market in the beginning, hurting intial adoption rates outside the Android community.
Win: Google TV, brand recognition.
Raspberry Pi. Starting at a paltry $25, this little low-powered Android stock device is actually quite a surprising little power house. All manner of network appliances have been developed around this hardware, and with the drivers for most of the hardware being provided for other flavors of Linux, it's range and scope is expanding fast. While again, only techies will really know what the Pi is, it's heavily marketed (ignore the fact i'm using this term loosely) towards Android and computing enthusiasts as a replacement for all those things that are big, hot, and noisy. This little gem has already received more builds of Linux than I can count, a port of XBMC that can easily handle streaming 1080p without a sweat, it really comes down to accessibility. In the long run the Ouya is pricier, and for those just looking for a cheap XBMC device, you can't beat the Pi at $25. That and it's kawaii-small.
Win: Raspberry Pi, price point.
nVIDIA Shield. In the closest thing to apples to apples comparison of devices based on how they're marketed, we have the nVIDIA Shield, the Tegra 4 powered nVIDIA Android handheld gaming console (announced). This little gamer's wet dream is a powerhouse in your hands, and throw in the ability to play your PC games on the handheld thanks to special integration with the nVIDIA graphics processor on your PC, and you've got an almost universal system to enjoy anywhere, anytime. Again, being that it's Android, don't expect that it won't be without it's ports of XBMC and many many other wonderful pieces of software to further enhance the cost-to-value ratio of this handheld. Being that this is the closest competitor to the Ouya, it's worth noting that there are a few caveats to the Shield which bring it down. As of this writing, the "Play PC" feature is heavily Steam oriented (not a bad thing), will likely require Multi-Band Wireless N (MIMO) (not prevalent, likely have to buy one), and the biggest bullet to chew on, a whopping GeForce GTX 650 (cheapest on Newegg as of writing $110 new) in order to enjoy this device to it's fullest. While the Ouya lacks this functionality to begin with, it brings it down, but this feature feels more like a power-play by nVIDIA than something that could end up becoming mainstream.
Win: Ouya, will integrate with everything you already have provided tools and/or apps are provided to link it, no need to upgrade everything around it to make full use of it.
Mods: Sorry for the perceived dupe topic, I was at work getting calls every 15 minutes interrupting me for upwards half an hour after I started writing this just after lunch.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You got it completely wrong. None of those are real competitors to the OUYA. Google TV is... hold your breath... TV. It has the ability to run games but that's neither its purpose nor its strength. Raspberry is an amazing low cost miracle. As one of the early adopters I can say that you won't spend 25$ (or whatever the price was back then) better. But comparing it to a Tegra3 device in terms of gaming is a joke, right? The SHIELD is intended for the hardcore gamers. Unlike the OUYA it can stream PC games, it's portable, has better hardware... and costs more. Those two will more likely benefit from each other than compete, because the OUYA will have the numbers and the SHIELD will have the raw power to make big developers look at Android more seriously.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using xda premium

tkolev said:
You got it completely wrong. None of those are real competitors to the OUYA. Google TV is... hold your breath... TV. It has the ability to run games but that's neither its purpose nor its strength. Raspberry is an amazing low cost miracle. As one of the early adopters I can say that you won't spend 25$ (or whatever the price was back then) better. But comparing it to a Tegra3 device in terms of gaming is a joke, right? The SHIELD is intended for the hardcore gamers. Unlike the OUYA it can stream PC games, it's portable, has better hardware... and costs more. Those two will more likely benefit from each other than compete, because the OUYA will have the numbers and the SHIELD will have the raw power to make big developers look at Android more seriously.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I never once said that these devices were in direct competition (only in the respect to they share Android space), just that based on what people know of each device, how they may compare them, and which ones would come out on top. Most of these devices are semi-interchange-able, but if you have simple needs (like XBMC), then there are better alternatives out there for you (in this case Pi). This was to highlight some of the strengths of Ouya's perceived competitors. The only real direct competitor is the SHIELD, which in it's own right is still a generation ahead, literally.

To be frank I just got my Pi and it's a pain in the butt, I am still periodically working on making the SD card perfect so the darn thing will boot. At the initial launch, the optimized Tegra 3 and 1GB RAM will blow the Pi's tech out of the water. And if we can push it to a second release we'll have a Tegra 4 SoC and most likely at least 2GB RAM.
I really think this OUYA project is going to benefit from Nvidias support. Let's be honest, Nvidia makes the best graphics tech in the PC market. The best. Really. They've been doing this for a very, very long time. And I think it's going to upstage the Qualcomm 800.

my Galaxy S3, with MHL hdmi connection, plus sixaxis bluetooth controller... bigger specs than an ouya and does exactly the same thing... no wait, it does more!

devnut said:
my Galaxy S3, with MHL hdmi connection, plus sixaxis bluetooth controller... bigger specs than an ouya and does exactly the same thing... no wait, it does more!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
and wait... it costs 5 times more.

devnut said:
my Galaxy S3, with MHL hdmi connection, plus sixaxis bluetooth controller... bigger specs than an ouya and does exactly the same thing... no wait, it does more!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So your S3 core runs with 1,7ghz and never downclock.
Because the ouya has a powersupply and don´t need to save any batterie.
Also the android on ouya is cut down to a minimum of ressources to give the game more power.
It will only be a matter of time to have ouya games which will not work on any S3 or Note2 or other devices with tegra 3 or equal.

devnut said:
my Galaxy S3, with MHL hdmi connection, plus sixaxis bluetooth controller... bigger specs than an ouya and does exactly the same thing... no wait, it does more!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think we better compare the respective categories based on the space they are in..
Sent from my GT-I9100 using xda app-developers app

OOH-YAA :highfive: :good:

lartomar2002 said:
OOH-YAA :highfive: :good:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
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Anyways, back on topic! If the Pi is as "Pi"tiful as everyone is claiming, then the biggest names the Ouya will have to deal with will be the Google TV (which has huge brand recognition), and the nVidia SHIELD (again, brand recognition, and better hardware). Ouya doesn't have to topple either of these platforms, each has their niche, but can easily be extended to include the extra functionality needed. The Google TV platform may not have the powerful graphics processor to keep up with demanding games, but for artsy 2d kids games, no problem. Why buy a new system (that you likely know nothing about), when you can just extend the capabilities of your already existing Google TV installation by rooting and working with that? SHIELD is more of a direct competitor as it's seeking the gaming market that's been woefully ignored in terms of mobility, and while the Ouya will likely be a better item for the simple fact that you're going to get some good mileage out of the platform for $100, it still has to compete with brand recognition, which is overall going to hurt the Ouya. The only people really aware of the Ouya are kickstarter backers, and the Android enthusiast community. There's been plenty of press, but I've dropped the name Ouya in conversation with some of my other tech-oriented friends and gotten blank stares which tells me that there's not enough marketing going out to inform the masses of the product. Word of mouth is great, especially in tech-oriented circles, but outside of that, they're falling short. In reality, this all boils down to Ouya vs their marketing department.

If you and your friends are like me everytime I visit a Walmart, Target or Amazon online the first place I visit is the electronics dept. So, come June they will definitely srart having exposer to the OUYA.

future of Micro-consoles?

Hi guys,
I just come across this blog post and felt the need to reply.
Rob Weber's 2014 Predictions for the Mobile Gaming Market
It quickly turned into my own blog post :laugh:
Overview:
The big 3 Console manufactures have stagnated
Mobile hardware and Google Android is advancing rapidly
Convergence of Mobile HW/SW into the desktop domain
Resurgence of the microcomputer (highend Android appliance)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I used my laptop (rather then turning on the desktop) mainly for simple general things like emails, web browsing, chat and reading/writing documents etc.
After using the MOJO with a full USB keyboard and mouse on the coffee table for the past week my laptop has been made redundant.
As a desktop/laptop replacement, The MOJO has great performance with superb multi-tasking of applications.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My blog post is here:
http://xpcoin.com/2014/02/08/micro-consoles-or-microcomputers
Feedback welcome

gwaldo said:
Hi guys,
I just come across this blog post and felt the need to reply.
Rob Weber's 2014 Predictions for the Mobile Gaming Market
It quickly turned into my own blog post :laugh:
My blog post is here:
http://xpcoin.com/2014/02/08/micro-consoles-or-microcomputers
Feedback welcome
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree with you gwald. I think android micro-consoles are just beginning. Since the idea of the Ouya came to light, I couldn't wait to get an android gaming console. Of course, Ouya wasn't exactly what I wanted. I think the perfect android console would use a stock google android experience, great hardware and access to any and every game out there in the android ecosystem. Enter: Madcatz MOJO, this does everything I could dream an android console could do - and more. I really think 6 months from now, or by the end of the year, the MOJO will have the updates it needs and more and more controller compatible games will be released - making the MOJO even better. If you were to put an Xbox One, PS4, and MOJO right in front of me I would still pick the MOJO. Android is the perfect OS for gaming console, and devs out there are truly making some really great games - and they are so cheap!
If any gaming systems are going to phase out sooner than later - I'm betting it's going to be the big three. With Android entering the living room space via micro console, hdmi sticks, set top boxes etc - consumers have many more options to choose from, and don't have to spend $400 or more on a console with games at $60 a pop. Just my thoughts!

ya I agree I show my friends that have consoles and they are surprised on the graphics coming from a small box. and its coming along just hope the suppoert for this is long term

Hey thanks for the feed back guys
It's an interesting landscape for sure:
Microsoft considering allowing Android apps to run on both Windows and Windows Phone
Sources familiar with Microsoft’s plans tell The Verge that the company is seriously considering allowing Android apps to run on both Windows and Windows Phone.
While planning is ongoing and it's still early, we’re told that some inside Microsoft favor the idea of simply enabling Android apps inside its Windows and Windows Phone Stores, while others believe it could lead to the death of the Windows platform altogether.
The mixed (and strong) feelings internally highlight that Microsoft will need to be careful with any radical move.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If MS does provide native support for android apps.. it will make their own native development tools less important.
Making Android demographic's more important then iOS.

It can't be a stock google experience, not until google bakes in a 10' experience based launcher. Using a controller or air mouse to move a cursor on a screen is just terrible ux.

jjprichards said:
It can't be a stock google experience, not until google bakes in a 10' experience based launcher. Using a controller or air mouse to move a cursor on a screen is just terrible ux.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thats the reason I love it. Stock Google Android. I wouldn't want some launcher skinned over the top. I like the interface, plus I already know how to use it. After owning my MOJO for over a month, I know the CTRLR like the back of my hand. It's really easy to use. What's more, you can hook up any wired, wireless, or bluetooth device such as a mouse and keyboard to make it more PC like if you want to navigate that way.
---------- Post added at 07:36 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:26 PM ----------
gwaldo said:
Hey thanks for the feed back guys
It's an interesting landscape for sure:
Microsoft considering allowing Android apps to run on both Windows and Windows Phone
If MS does provide native support for android apps.. it will make their own native development tools less important.
Making Android demographic's more important then iOS.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think MS implementing android app compatibility is about as likely as Apple producing an android phone. I think MS's next big move is integrating their PC/Tablet/Phone OS's rolled into one. I've read a few articles over the last few months that points this. I think it'd be a cool idea and bring something a little fresher out there for windows users. I really don't see MS pulling out of the phone market anytime soon, but then again, I really don't see them on par with android or apple. I think we still have a few more years to go for MS to stop throwing money at the OS and saying the heck with it. I personally enjoy their mobile OS. Back when the ZuneHD came out, I loved it. Had always thought they were on to something with that user interface - then that turned in to Windows phone pretty much. I know their mobile products aren't the most popular, but it sure is a pretty OS and does the job quite well.

I love my mojo, and the ctrl controller is one of the best I've ever owned.

IMMENSE
The future and the evolution of android consoles and mobile devices is going to be litteraly immense,all pc's and console will likely be made completely redundant within 10 yrs tops i should imagine,as all development and so forth will eventually be producable on an android device or android pc of some description,with the fact the devices use little power then i cannot see why a pc will be the slightest bit necissary unless it has android as a primary os.
The consoles are just begining and it looks like the K1 soc chip will blow the consoles away why fork out 430 GBP for a xbox one or what ever is top trumps as a standard console when the K1 arrives?
The mad catz m.o.j.o i own yes isn't a console in terms of the power of a 360 ps3 or xbox one or a ps4,but with prices of energy bills rising,the fact that games for android are rapidly needing more power from gpu's and the fact they now are actually starting to look amazing on tegra 4,then consoles and windows/apple systems are going to be hard pressed to make ends meet in a shrinking market once the big boy chips arrive for android devices eg.K1 (keplar 1).
I am a computer repair technician and even i can see what is happening,although i may find it eventually bypasses the need for a pc or laptop,it's cheaper to buy hardware and software,and because there are no real mechanical components in android devices as such eg.hdd's ram chips,psu's and so forth and because they are so cheap to replace on average,then people will see other systems as irrelivent and expensive to repair and switch over given time,and the simple fact eg. a mad catz m.o.j.o runs 4.26 to 24v so i here then why pay all the electric cost for 500w pc's and higher to play games? It seems win win for android and loose loose for pc's.

PHYSC-1 said:
The future and the evolution of android consoles and mobile devices is going to be litteraly immense,all pc's and console will likely be made completely redundant within 10 yrs tops i should imagine,as all development and so forth will eventually be producable on an android device or android pc of some description,with the fact the devices use little power then i cannot see why a pc will be the slightest bit necissary unless it has android as a primary os.
The consoles are just begining and it looks like the K1 soc chip will blow the consoles away why fork out 430 GBP for a xbox one or what ever is top trumps as a standard console when the K1 arrives?
The mad catz m.o.j.o i own yes isn't a console in terms of the power of a 360 ps3 or xbox one or a ps4,but with prices of energy bills rising,the fact that games for android are rapidly needing more power from gpu's and the fact they now are actually starting to look amazing on tegra 4,then consoles and windows/apple systems are going to be hard pressed to make ends meet in a shrinking market once the big boy chips arrive for android devices eg.K1 (keplar 1).
I am a computer repair technician and even i can see what is happening,although i may find it eventually bypasses the need for a pc or laptop,it's cheaper to buy hardware and software,and because there are no real mechanical components in android devices as such eg.hdd's ram chips,psu's and so forth and because they are so cheap to replace on average,then people will see other systems as irrelivent and expensive to repair and switch over given time,and the simple fact eg. a mad catz m.o.j.o runs 4.26 to 24v so i here then why pay all the electric cost for 500w pc's and higher to play games? It seems win win for android and loose loose for pc's.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
looks like the K1 soc chip will blow the consoles away
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Your kidding right?
Because the Tegra 4 has 72 Cores, and the Tegra K1 192 Cores, and thats allot less then what the Playstation 4 have, that one has a AMD Radeon GPU with 1152 Cores, and the Xbox One GPU is also a AMD Radeon with 768 Cores.
And thats a LOT MORE then the Tegra K1 with only 192 Cores.
why pay all the electric cost for 500w pc's and higher to play games
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have a High end Game PC (Intel Core i7 980 + Geforce GTX 680OC + 6 GB RAM 1866MHz) and i can play ALL games on Very High and 1920x1080, and my system uses MAX 320w when i play high end games, have a Energy measurer.
And the newer GPU,s like Geforce GTX 7** and Intel CPU's use even less power then my system, only when you use 2 GPU's you are using
500+ watts, and there are not allot of people with does systems, and i know, because i make PC systems.
But yes 300w +/- is allot more then 5w, but the games still looks and sounds 10 times better then any Android game.

AmigaWolf said:
Your kidding right?
Because the Tegra 4 has 72 Cores, and the Tegra K1 192 Cores, and thats allot less then what the Playstation 4 have, that one has a AMD Radeon GPU with 1152 Cores, and the Xbox One GPU is also a AMD Radeon with 768 Cores.
And thats a LOT MORE then the Tegra K1 with only 192 Cores.
I have a High end Game PC (Intel Core i7 980 + Geforce GTX 680OC + 6 GB RAM 1866MHz) and i can play ALL games on Very High and 1920x1080, and my system uses MAX 320w when i play high end games, have a Energy measurer.
And the newer GPU,s like Geforce GTX 7** and Intel CPU's use even less power then my system, only when you use 2 GPU's you are using
500+ watts, and there are not allot of people with does systems, and i know, because i make PC systems.
But yes 300w +/- is allot more then 5w, but the games still looks and sounds 10 times better then any Android game.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sure, now, but the future is not in PC's. PC's will be redundant, as he stated. PC's will soon be the "niche" market. Micro consoles, wearable tech, mobile, cloud, internet of things, is the future. Tech will get smaller and more powerful and everything will "connect". Cloud servers will also be doing a lot of the processing and storage, meaning less need for powerful hardware from the user. Of course, these things will bring up privacy and security issues, but that's a different topic for a different day I suppose.

christoph80 said:
Sure, now, but the future is not in PC's. PC's will be redundant, as he stated. PC's will soon be the "niche" market. Micro consoles, wearable tech, mobile, cloud, internet of things, is the future. Tech will get smaller and more powerful and everything will "connect". Cloud servers will also be doing a lot of the processing and storage, meaning less need for powerful hardware from the user. Of course, these things will bring up privacy and security issues, but that's a different topic for a different day I suppose.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes your right about that.
And that the reason i do not use Cloud servers for photos or music, only for Apps or Firmwares and such, and thats also the reason i do not use
Facebook or twitter.

AmigaWolf said:
Your kidding right?
Because the Tegra 4 has 72 Cores, and the Tegra K1 192 Cores, and thats allot less then what the Playstation 4 have, that one has a AMD Radeon GPU with 1152 Cores, and the Xbox One GPU is also a AMD Radeon with 768 Cores.
And thats a LOT MORE then the Tegra K1 with only 192 Cores.
I have a High end Game PC (Intel Core i7 980 + Geforce GTX 680OC + 6 GB RAM 1866MHz) and i can play ALL games on Very High and 1920x1080, and my system uses MAX 320w when i play high end games, have a Energy measurer.
And the newer GPU,s like Geforce GTX 7** and Intel CPU's use even less power then my system, only when you use 2 GPU's you are using
500+ watts, and there are not allot of people with does systems, and i know, because i make PC systems.
But yes 300w +/- is allot more then 5w, but the games still looks and sounds 10 times better then any Android game.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Keplar is high end gaming graphics architecture is it not from what online info dictates?
Besides the point is "apparently" either way you cut it the world of android gaming will be changed forever when the K1 hit's high street stores and every other system i'm guessing will be extortionately more expensive in comparrison and therefore irrelevant once it progreses further.Why bother with big bulky systems when 1 fits all solutions half or a 3rd the price come of age and compete at least with gaming rigs in some way shape or form.The other thing is watts the power consumption of gaming rigs is miles above that of android tv box's yet they seem to process data at astonishing rates,i had a fm2 quad 3.6ghz 8gb ddr3 and ssd drive and i'd say my tegra 4 mad catz mojo is knocking close-ish to that so why bother if i pay 179.95 gbp for that yeah games aren't as good but they feel different in a unique and good way,but keplar is supposedly going to add pc level graphics when that comes so maybe i'll upgrade then?
Bu basically pc gpu's have to be continually upgraded but android devices last far longer before the need so i'd rather pay the couple or few hundred quid on a whole android console than i would for a pc gpu every yr or so just to play the games,whereas i would be getting a whole android console for that price and not need to do so for 3 years at a guess saving half the money and staying in the trend with android gaming apposed to pc gaming,which is all about fps these days now any way,i got bored of it all being uniform.Pc games are great at times but they arebecoming a bit tedious these days in my personal opinion.
---------- Post added at 07:52 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:39 PM ----------
christoph80 said:
Sure, now, but the future is not in PC's. PC's will be redundant, as he stated. PC's will soon be the "niche" market. Micro consoles, wearable tech, mobile, cloud, internet of things, is the future. Tech will get smaller and more powerful and everything will "connect". Cloud servers will also be doing a lot of the processing and storage, meaning less need for powerful hardware from the user. Of course, these things will bring up privacy and security issues, but that's a different topic for a different day I suppose.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Absolutely right,couldn't say it better.Privacy issues are the only reason from reading posts online that the current businesses have not yet switched to android as the main os of favour.
But all that is really needed is companies to adopt the use of vpn's and the security issues are sliced down to almost nothing or at the very least dramatically cut down.
There are some android touch screen pc's coming to the market soon unless the us and japan etc has them now?Once this happens i can see companies adopting them any way.No more extra cost on parts and no more waiting times as such in software,it's just better and in fact it's safer to use than windows ,cloud storage systems are a good idea but i'd still back my systems up to an external hard drive and not to a cloud thus narrowing down the chances of data theft.

PHYSC-1 said:
Keplar is high end gaming graphics architecture is it not from what online info dictates?
Besides the point is "apparently" either way you cut it the world of android gaming will be changed forever when the K1 hit's high street stores and every other system i'm guessing will be extortionately more expensive in comparrison and therefore irrelevant once it progreses further.Why bother with big bulky systems when 1 fits all solutions half or a 3rd the price come of age and compete at least with gaming rigs in some way shape or form.The other thing is watts the power consumption of gaming rigs is miles above that of android tv box's yet they seem to process data at astonishing rates,i had a fm2 quad 3.6ghz 8gb ddr3 and ssd drive and i'd say my tegra 4 mad catz mojo is knocking close-ish to that so why bother if i pay 179.95 gbp for that yeah games aren't as good but they feel different in a unique and good way,but keplar is supposedly going to add pc level graphics when that comes so maybe i'll upgrade then?
Bu basically pc gpu's have to be continually upgraded but android devices last far longer before the need so i'd rather pay the couple or few hundred quid on a whole android console than i would for a pc gpu every yr or so just to play the games,whereas i would be getting a whole android console for that price and not need to do so for 3 years at a guess saving half the money and staying in the trend with android gaming apposed to pc gaming,which is all about fps these days now any way,i got bored of it all being uniform.Pc games are great at times but they arebecoming a bit tedious these days in my personal opinion.
---------- Post added at 07:52 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:39 PM ----------
Absolutely right,couldn't say it better.Privacy issues are the only reason from reading posts online that the current businesses have not yet switched to android as the main os of favour.
But all that is really needed is companies to adopt the use of vpn's and the security issues are sliced down to almost nothing or at the very least dramatically cut down.
There are some android touch screen pc's coming to the market soon unless the us and japan etc has them now?Once this happens i can see companies adopting them any way.No more extra cost on parts and no more waiting times as such in software,it's just better and in fact it's safer to use than windows ,cloud storage systems are a good idea but i'd still back my systems up to an external hard drive and not to a cloud thus narrowing down the chances of data theft.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry to say but the fm2 quad 3.6ghz 8gb ddr3 is MUCH faster then your Mad Catz M.O.J.O., you can't even compare the two of them, but you forget one thing Windows uses a lot of power, put Linux on your computer and he will blow Windows away.
And sorry to say but MOST people buy a different Phone or in your case Android TV Box every year.
And i buy a new GFX Card every 3 a 4 years, and MB i do even longer with, my X58 is already 4 years old, and the same for CPU, updated my
Intel CPU from Quad to 6-Core, almost 2 years ago.
And the world of android gaming will NOT be changed forever with the the Tegra K1, because when it cames out there will be GPU's and
CPU's that are as fast as that one, or even faster, same with Tegra 4.
The Tegra 4 is nothing special, the GPU that is in the Qualcomm Snapdragon 800 (the Adreno 330) is as fast (and sometimes faster) as the
Tegra 4.
And with the Tegra K1 we will NOT get PC or Playstation 4 or Xbox One graphics, that still is going to be allot of years, or do you think
Sony and Microsoft are stupit if Android devices are as good looking (graphics) as them in only a view years?
And Android devices also have to be upgraded ever time, to play all games 100%.

PHYSC-1 said:
Keplar is high end gaming graphics architecture is it not from what online info dictates?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes it is, but not compared to latest PC/console tech.
Keplar is being compared to PS3/XBox360 and it will be a lot better then those... but these systems are over 6 years old and I would say the T4 is very close or better, ie the reflections the T4 does looks better then anything I've seen on those consoles.
NVidia is taking a huge gamble not focusing mobile phone hardware and moving more into TV boxes, tablets, android laptops... android desktops

eyrius fome
gwaldo said:
Yes it is, but not compared to latest PC/console tech.
Keplar is being compared to PS3/XBox360 and it will be a lot better then those... but these systems are over 6 years old and I would say the T4 is very close or better, ie the reflections the T4 does looks better then anything I've seen on those consoles.
NVidia is taking a huge gamble not focusing mobile phone hardware and moving more into TV boxes, tablets, android laptops... android desktops
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's the parker chip being compared to the xbox 360 and ps3 mate not the K1 the K1 can run unreal engine 4 and has been demoed doing so at E3,i think that unreal engine 4 is leaps and bounds above ps3 and 360 capabilities i imagine it is any way?
The point i am making in general without trying to get on the wrong side of pc rig owners is this: It's innevitable that android will basically take most of the market for contempary tech,it will progress and it will overtake all but the equipment used to create it's software on in all likelyhood maybe not overnight or in a year or 3 but in time it will or something new will take off where it left off but likely android will be long lasting and evolve rapidly year by year,but even the tech (pc's) used to make android os in time be made via android computers as apposed to a windows build pc's with an android software on it.But people aren't these days looking for gaming rigs like they used to do as they are extremely expensive and android sits in a sort of middle ground somewhere between being a computer and a games console,but why buy one or the other if you can have both rolled in one?That's the perspective of the majority of end users and the younger tech oriented society today i woul imagine and it's a simple cold hard fact that it is what it is and will be what it will be.Just look at things like hud motorcycle helmets and golden-i with the police pro app and fire fighting app,it will become commercialy used given little time as a business os android will become the go to software.It's cheap it's easy and it doesn't "yet" harbour the kinds of difficulties of use or protection requirements of pc based computers as it's a mobile os.
Looking at the guy with the rig your talkin 1000 pounds plus for that system how many android gaming devices and wearable tech items could that buy you nowdays with cash like that.
It's absolutely no wonder using an i7 system you wouldn't need to buy anything else for a while,i love pc's i fix them buought a number of them for gaming amd builds but none the less the point there is pay loads of money and you get great pc's pay 180 quid on a mad catz m.o.j.o or similar and you get technically a pc and android gaming console with controller and shed loads left over to spend on thenext newest units.The other factor is your energy bills would be sky rocket in comparrisons as well.So android makes sense in todays climate and has the potential to give gaming rigs a run for their money given enough time to evolve.

PHYSC-1 said:
It's the parker chip being compared to the xbox 360 and ps3 mate not the K1 the K1 can run unreal engine 4 and has been demoed doing so at E3,i think that unreal engine 4 is leaps and bounds above ps3 and 360 capabilities i imagine it is any way?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You can make almost any engine run on a Android system, just put detail VERY low and all the rest and whalla he will run on the slow Android
CPU/GPU, i mean compared to PC and newer Consoles.
PHYSC-1 said:
The point i am making in general without trying to get on the wrong side of pc rig owners is this: It's innevitable that android will basically take most of the market for contempary tech,it will progress and it will overtake all but the equipment used to create it's software on in all likelyhood maybe not overnight or in a year or 3 but in time it will or something new will take off where it left off but likely android will be long lasting and evolve rapidly year by year,but even the tech (pc's) used to make android os in time be made via android computers as apposed to a windows build pc's with an android software on it.But people aren't these days looking for gaming rigs like they used to do as they are extremely expensive and android sits in a sort of middle ground somewhere between being a computer and a games console,but why buy one or the other if you can have both rolled in one?That's the perspective of the majority of end users and the younger tech oriented society today i woul imagine and it's a simple cold hard fact that it is what it is and will be what it will be.Just look at things like hud motorcycle helmets and golden-i with the police pro app and fire fighting app,it will become commercialy used given little time as a business os android will become the go to software.It's cheap it's easy and it doesn't "yet" harbour the kinds of difficulties of use or protection requirements of pc based computers as it's a mobile os.
Looking at the guy with the rig your talkin 1000 pounds plus for that system how many android gaming devices and wearable tech items could that buy you nowdays with cash like that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
HAHA, sorry to say but you are right about the future, but we are still not there, that will take many years still, and sorry to say but there are as many
people (even more) now as there was 5 years ago that buy a PC Game system that cost 1000 Pounds or more, the LAN-parties are only getting bigger
and bigger, so no there are not less people with a Game PC's, a Game Laptop is also a Game PC, but then portable.
And the Game consoles, Like the Playstation 3 and 4 and Xbox One are the middle ground, and NOT Android TV Boxes, i know no one that uses or
have a Android TV Box, only the ones i have given one myself.
PHYSC-1 said:
It's absolutely no wonder using an i7 system you wouldn't need to buy anything else for a while,i love pc's i fix them buought a number of them for gaming amd builds but none the less the point there is pay loads of money and you get great pc's pay 180 quid on a mad catz m.o.j.o or similar and you get technically a pc and android gaming console with controller and shed loads left over to spend on thenext newest units.The other factor is your energy bills would be sky rocket in comparrisons as well.So android makes sense in todays climate and has the potential to give gaming rigs a run for their money given enough time to evolve.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But still it's NOTHING like a Game PC, and thats the point i am trying to make you see a long time now, people still do not buy Android TV BOXES, they
buy a Laptop PC Or Game PC or Playstation 4 and Xbox One to play games on or look at movies and download with and Internet with.

ok
As i said before it is what it is and it will be what it will be,the android gaming era is about to make a massive shift sooner rather than later.And where there is a consumer market with far less money to burn,then i am afraid it is just pure and simple calculation and common sense to think that people will go for the cheaper option in such hard times.And as it stands to get unreal engine 4 capable graphics then people are going to think i would rather pay a couple or few hundred quid not a grand.

Agreed
AmigaWolf said:
You can make almost any engine run on a Android system, just put detail VERY low and all the rest and whalla he will run on the slow Android
CPU/GPU, i mean compared to PC and newer Consoles.
HAHA, sorry to say but you are right about the future, but we are still not there, that will take many years still, and sorry to say but there are as many
people (even more) now as there was 5 years ago that buy a PC Game system that cost 1000 Pounds or more, the LAN-parties are only getting bigger
and bigger, so no there are not less people with a Game PC's, a Game Laptop is also a Game PC, but then portable.
And the Game consoles, Like the Playstation 3 and 4 and Xbox One are the middle ground, and NOT Android TV Boxes, i know no one that uses or
have a Android TV Box, only the ones i have given one myself.
But still it's NOTHING like a Game PC, and thats the point i am trying to make you see a long time now, people still do not buy Android TV BOXES, they
buy a Laptop PC Or Game PC or Playstation 4 and Xbox One to play games on or look at movies and download with and Internet with.[/QUOTE
I agree with you it's nothing like pc games 'yet' on android meaning those style games will come as hardware capability evolves with k1 ushering in that start point for change graphically on android units, but pc games are now a little uniform and tbh a little bit tedious, android offers fresh ideas in play style very often, it's sort of a break from the mundane if you like.Not that all pc games are mundane but lets face it tonnes of the releases are an upgrade to predated games or a repetitive style of game that got an update/upgrade or hd rewrite.The production of new pc games seems to be falling where android software and app production seems to be continually and very quickly rising.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

PHYSC-1 said:
The production of new pc games seems to be falling where android software and app production seems to be continually and very quickly rising.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah I agree, it reminds me of gaming on PC back in windows 3 days.
Not as popular as consoles gaming.. but it did got there...
The same is happening with Android.... it just needs one 'doom' like game or TV app

gwaldo said:
Yeah I agree, it reminds me of gaming on PC back in windows 3 days.
Not as popular as consoles gaming.. but it did got there...
The same is happening with Android.... it just needs one 'doom' like game or TV app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
tbh i do have the sneeking suspision that epic working with nvidia on android software = either gears of war or a new game that bares some form of resembelance to it or makes the same kind of impact on android as it did for the 360 once this keplar chip comes of ag, you may find that title is being kept under tight wraps and will make a debut when k1 hits stores as the flagship game of choice and favor or at the least one of them.
It's got to be a team effort and must be why they are working in parallel at present in regards to this keplar k1 chip software for it's games.Apparently borderlands was supposed to hit the current tegra 4 but i think that may be a title for keplar k1 as well,in fact borderlands has even got a trailer forget the exact title but it's hanging about on youtube right now,it only seems to be video and not ingame footage though unfortunately.So maybe that is because it takes keplar to run it on?They will probably bang out a more vast selection of games on release day this time,because it would definately appear some serious game making firms are in cahoots with nvidia in relation to android gaming as of late.And my money would be on the bet that keplar is the main reason for this sudden interest,as it's going to be yet another console platform for companies to work with.

Thinking of replacing my Note with a windows tablet...

Probably stupid to even suggest this on the note forum, but thought I'd share my feelings of the Note anyway. I had the original Note and thought it was wonderful. It literally changed how I go to school. Once I used to have a twenty pound bag filled with books and notebooks, but now I have one device that I use for ebooks and note taking. It worked so well that once the new note was released, I upgraded. I'm now wishing I applied that money towards a Windows tablet. Don't get me wrong, the Note still rocks at what it does....most of the time. I do find that it can be rather finicky with certain things, but overall it takes notes well. Which is primarily what I use it for. (I have a GPad 8.3 for ebooks now) Once I get home I find that the Note sits in my bag and I pick up my Zenbook Prime for browsing and using full on desktop apps like spotify. I just don't use the note for anything but Note taking. Thats an expensive Notebook! Plus, I've heard tons of great things about Onenote and have seen youtube videos showcasing its awesomeness. And if I really really wanted lecture notes, couldn't I run it via bluestacks? Essentially getting a windows and android tablet in one? Of course everyones needs are different, and I never thought I'd see the day when I'd be a potential windows defector, but am seriously impressed by the slew of tablets pouring out of their camp. I am a die hard android fan ever since my OG Droid, but I just can't help but see the shortcomings of the android OS. I'll never go windows phone, but as far as tablets go.... I think Micro$oft is onto something....Plus Chrome for desktop rocks way more than the mobile version.
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Please don't hate me

Totally agree

supremekizzle said:
I'll never go windows phone, but as far as tablets go.... I think Micro$oft is onto something....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Windows and tablets are kind of an oxymoron. The fate of RT is unknown and with the inability to run legacy Windows apps it's pretty barren from a content perspective. The Modern touch UI is pretty much a failure with MS admitting it by bringing back the start button and allowing the desktop to boot to a standard Windows desktop. I use my N10.1-14 as a laptop supplement. I'll travel with it about half the time when I know I'm not going to be doing heavy duty MS Office editing and creation. If I am, I'll bring my 13" ultra book. Which, even though it's light, is twice as large and three times as heavy to carry when you add-in its accessories. Between RDP, Hancom Office, and a BT mouse/keyboard the N10.1-14 is a fantastic laptop supplement. But I can't imagine using it (or any Android tablet) as a true laptop replacement. For that matter, Windows Pro tablets don't really offer anything that more than an ultra book does so to choose between them I'd pick the latter. Android and iOS are the kings of consumption. Windows tablets (not the RT's) are the kings of productivity. You compromise productivity on Android/iOS and compromise consumption on Windows. So where someone is on the consumption/productivity spectrum and what they're willing to compromise determines which is the better choice for them.
When I'm traveling, especially overseas, consumption, battery life, and portability are important. Windows tablets are pretty poor in all three categories. My whole set-up fits in this bag. Carrying a Windows tablet and all its kit is the same as carrying a laptop.
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To me, this is a non-starter...
As for Lecture Notes<>OneNote<>S Note I used OneNote for years. It's far from optimized for handwriting. Since Samsung introduced S Note for Windows and introduced handwriting search in to S Finder I pretty much always use S Note unless I'm collaborating with folks on MS Office in which case I'll use OneNote. A lot of friends and associates have Samsung Note's though and we'll collaborate using S Note.
No two people here do the same things consumption and productivity wise nor have the same priorities. So it's all really just some interesting discussion.

BarryH_GEG said:
Windows and tablets are kind of an oxymoron. The fate of RT is unknown and with the inability to run legacy Windows apps it's pretty barren from a content perspective. The Modern touch UI is pretty much a failure with MS admitting it by bringing back the start button and allowing the desktop to boot to a standard Windows desktop. I use my N10.1-14 as a laptop supplement. I'll travel with it about half the time when I know I'm not going to be doing heavy duty MS Office editing and creation. If I am, I'll bring my 13" ultra book. Which, even though it's light, is twice as large and three times as heavy to carry when you add-in its accessories. Between RDP, Hancom Office, and a BT mouse/keyboard the N10.1-14 is a fantastic laptop supplement. But I can't imagine using it (or any Android tablet) as a true laptop replacement. For that matter, Windows Pro tablets don't really offer anything that more than an ultra book does so to choose between them I'd pick the latter. Android and iOS are the kings of consumption. Windows tablets (not the RT's) are the kings of productivity. You compromise productivity on Android/iOS and compromise consumption on Windows. So where someone is on the consumption/productivity spectrum and what they're willing to compromise determines which is the better choice for them.
When I'm traveling, especially overseas, consumption, battery life, and portability are important. Windows tablets are pretty poor in all three categories. My whole set-up fits in this bag. Carrying a Windows tablet and all its kit is the same as carrying a laptop.
To me, this is a non-starter...
As for Lecture Notes<>OneNote<>S Note I used OneNote for years. It's far from optimized for handwriting. Since Samsung introduced S Note for Windows and introduced handwriting search in to S Finder I pretty much always use S Note unless I'm collaborating with folks on MS Office in which case I'll use OneNote. A lot of friends and associates have Samsung Note's though and we'll collaborate using S Note.
No two people here do the same things consumption and productivity wise nor have the same priorities. So it's all really just some interesting discussion.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Quite a setup you have. Have you seen the newly announced surface pro 3? Looks pretty sick.

I'm actually in the same situation as you as I find I'm more productive on a Windows machine. I tried using my tablet but always felt I could've done more work had I had my laptop with me. I'm quite impress with the Surface Pro 3, and it looks like it may be a potential buy.

Love that the cigarettes are a part of the essential accessories!
Sent from my Nexus 4 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app

Zerogamer100 said:
I'm actually in the same situation as you as I find I'm more productive on a Windows machine. I tried using my tablet but always felt I could've done more work had I had my laptop with me. I'm quite impress with the Surface Pro 3, and it looks like it may be a potential buy.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Totally agree. I'd really like to know how lecture notes and other android apps run on bluestacks with a pen. With google drive and chrome apps available on windows, I'm really starting to question my need to have the Note. It kind of feels like a toy now. Plus, spotify, word, and other full on PC programs available, why use two devices when I can consolidate to one? The only thing about the Surface Pro 3 is the price. Woof, that bad boy is spendy...

Just remember that Microsoft tablets require a good antivirus to be installed since it's the same is as the desktop. Android doesn't have that problem. It is very possible to replace with does with android though. I replaced my Windows 8 laptop with the note and haven't looked back or over 4 months. I can do everything I Need to do on this, and I'm an IT person.
Sent from my SM-P600 using Tapatalk

Looks like nobody used and heard about Asus T100ta.
It replaced my laptop, desktop and tablets(Ipad and nexus).
Why..How..
It does everything a laptop will do with full windows 8. I hardly use any apps. Browser is good enough for me. When I want bigger screen, I just widi into my TV. 60" is always better then 13" laptop screen. I can watch movies on one screen and work on other no problem.
Bought couple of USB hub with ethernet from amazon and used that to configure 3 hotels network using this little bad boy.
Battery is solid 8-9 hours watching videos or document editing, No thinking about what format should i convert it to like ipad. Stand by time is amazing.
You will think why am I here then?? For my 3 year. Her ipad1 backlight gone and T100 is not for kids .
I'm done with Apple and Like samsung thanks to xda developers as it is easier to work on and flexibility it's products provide.

The recently announced Surface pro 3 really ups the ante in terms of making Windows tablets attractive. I'd like to see more of the new pen, first, but no doubt that OneNote is well built and useful.
The problem in my view is still weight, battery life, portability. When I carry the note (or a tablet) around, it's so I don't have to carry a laptop. I can't do all I want on a note, but on the road, on the go, it does enough so I can avoid carrying a laptop. But a surface pro 3 is still near double the weight of a note, more with the type cover, and less battery life, and again heavier with a charger too.
Basically, Surface pro 3 is still first a laptop replacement (as the comparison with the MacBook air made), not a tablet/note replacement, for me. I am still looking for the ultimate note taking tablet that can also be my mobile ebook reader and web browser and the note still is the closest there is for me.
Sent from my Nexus 5 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app

graewulf1 said:
Just remember that Microsoft tablets require a good antivirus to be installed since it's the same is as the desktop. Android doesn't have that problem. It is very possible to replace with does with android though. I replaced my Windows 8 laptop with the note and haven't looked back or over 4 months. I can do everything I Need to do on this, and I'm an IT person.
Sent from my SM-P600 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
An IT person that thinks Android does not have any opportunity for malware? Must be on par with the IT folks where I work.
Back on topic, if Google continues to nerf Android (like the KK SD bug that must be there to make the Nexus more competitive with the alternatives with SD cards) the Windows alternatives will continue to look better and better.

Surface Pro 3 was released.....
with a massive price

I agree on the price and love the specs. I have the Note 10.1-14 in a Poetic Bluetooth keyboard case with a mouse pad and Bluetooth mouse. It does real will, though there are times a Windows laptop cannot be beat. Goodness, that thing is expensive.
Sent via my Note 8

WJThomas said:
An IT person that thinks Android does not have any opportunity for malware? Must be on par with the IT folks where I work.
Back on topic, if Google continues to nerf Android (like the KK SD bug that must be there to make the Nexus more competitive with the alternatives with SD cards) the Windows alternatives will continue to look better and better.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I said anti-virus, not anti-Malware. Two entirely different things. Microsoft has a proven track record of being open to viruses and malware installing themselves. On Windows either can install itself without user interaction. Since android is Linux based, both require the user to install them to get into the system. Installing apps from reliable sources almost ensures a virus and malware free android system. Infected websites and emails cannot infect android without the user's permission, the same is not true on Windows. This is why I said a good antivirus is required on Windows tablets. It's optional on android.
If you want to bash android, take it to a Windows forum. This is an android tablet forum.
Sent from my SM-P600 using Tapatalk

graewulf1 said:
I said anti-virus, not anti-Malware. Two entirely different things.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Splitting hairs a bit there. The industry commonly lumps all malware together and the combined anti-malware software is called antih-virus.
graewulf1;5u2842009 said:
If you want to bash android, tjake it to a Windows forum. This is an android tablet forum.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Who is bashing Android? I am a big Android fan. I am bashing Google for their anti-user and anti-competition polices. They are starting to turn into an Apple/Microsoft. The removal of the SD card write access is the beginning of the end. I just hope the community will be able to overcome Google and keep Android a viable alternative.

Back on topic...
There's a good conversation going on in the N12 forum discussing the Note/Pro's vs. the SP3.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=52847377

I upgrade from an old windows tablet the hp 2730p elite notebook to the sm-p600. I had windows tablet was designed for windows xp but I had 7 installed with 3gb of ram 60gb hard drive and that this new android tablet was better in every way except for storage space which can easily be remedied with a memory card.
Productivity wise the note 10.1 I would say is better in my experience especially since I have a spare wacom pen from my windows tablet that has the eraser on the back end that works perfectly with the note 10.1. Coding is a bit more difficult but I usually just remote desktop to my main pc and run Visual Studios. I have an otg cable with a usb hub for a hardware mouse and keyboard but haven't found a way to have the right mouse button in android to work as one instead of the back key.
Media wise the note 10.1 is better than my old windows tablet little to no lag full hd support and all that and hdmi out beats svideo out.
Gaming wise this is where I would consider upgrading to a windows tablet. As old as my hp 2730p notebook was I could still play minecraft (min settings 15fps), World of Warcraft (min settings windowed mode only 10fps) but at least Terraria played at a decent framerate 25fps+. On the note you have android ports of Minecraft and Terraria with touch controls in mind and being incompatible with the pc version. I would love something like http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2209247 for the sm-p600. I have toyed with LinuxOnAndroid and hoping they make progress with a native gui vs vnc. Hell I would even dual boot with windows if I could.
Don't get me wrong there are great android games out there and the humble mobile bundles help but it seems like the good ports or versions are still on the iphone/ipad and android users are left with inferior products. Chu Chu Rockets for example has 1-4 player multiplayer support through bluetooth wifi and gamecenter and on the ipad 4 players can share one screen. So far on the android port multiplayer consists of 1 human and 3 cpus.
I have a few unrelated Samsung gripes with the note and I am not sure what I would upgrade to in the future.

urtruelove78 said:
Looks like nobody used and heard about Asus T100ta.
It replaced my laptop, desktop and tablets(Ipad and nexus).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Resurrecting an older thread, I know, but I just picked up an Asus Transformer T100ta new and factory sealed for $250 (from Amazon.com). It's running the full desktop version of Windows 8.1 (32-bit), 64GB SSD, 2 GB RAM, keyboard/mouse dock with a USB 3.0 port, HDMI out, micro SD slot (with no limitations on what can be stored/installed/accessed), charges with a standard micro USB phone charger, has the Intel Atom Z3775 processor, 11 hour battery life, and it includes Office 2013. My kids are playing Steam games on it, Minecraft, Halo 1 & 2, etc. These aren't just HD phone games like what's available for the iPad and Android tablets...these are the real deal. I'm also running a real photo editor and desktop versions of browsers, not to mention real Office.
And this device was released in October 2013 -- rapidly approaching 2 years ago. Meanwhile, our Note 10.1 2014 doesn't even have Lollipop yet. I can't even update my tablet with the recent incremental Kitkat update because it fails and says my tablet has been modified simply because it's rooted (with a completely stock ROM and stock recovery). Did I have to root it? No, of course not...but I had to root it if I wanted open access to the SD card after the KitKat update. Not to mention wanting to do the crazy thing of, y'know, backing up my apps and data (I know, it's a lot to ask, but....). I don't have to worry about rooting the Transformer tablet. And Windows 10 is already working on this device and is a free update.
I'm really a big fan of Android and have been since the early days, but it's gotten to the point where I feel it's only really good for use on phones. With being able to load the full desktop version of Windows 8.1 or even Windows 10 on a tablet the same size, I just don't really see the purpose for Android tablets anymore.
graewulf1 said:
Just remember that Microsoft tablets require a good antivirus to be installed since it's the same is as the desktop. Android doesn't have that problem. It is very possible to replace with does with android though. I replaced my Windows 8 laptop with the note and haven't looked back or over 4 months. I can do everything I Need to do on this, and I'm an IT person.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Windows 8.1 includes anti-virus through Windows Defender. That's all I'm running on two Windows 8.1 devices in my house, and on the three Windows 7 machines I"m running...ready? Nothing. You don't get viruses or malware if you know what you're doing, especially if you setup your network and workstations securely. I've been a network engineer for over 25 years, so I don't buy into all the virus/malware hype that non-techs do. No, you can't have that philosophy in the corporate environment, because there are too many unknowledgeable users that are the weak link, but you can definitely (and easily) do that with a home network, and especially a personal tablet.

internetpilot said:
Windows 8.1 includes anti-virus through Windows Defender. That's all I'm running on two Windows 8.1 devices in my house, and on the three Windows 7 machines I"m running...ready? Nothing. You don't get viruses or malware if you know what you're doing, especially if you setup your network and workstations securely. I've been a network engineer for over 25 years, so I don't buy into all the virus/malware hype that non-techs do. No, you can't have that philosophy in the corporate environment, because there are too many unknowledgeable users that are the weak link, but you can definitely (and easily) do that with a home network, and especially a personal tablet.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I concur. As long as you 1) know what you are doing (not running random downloaded exe files), 2) keep system updated, 3) connect to internet that is behind NAT (meaning you always connect via WiFi or router) you should be fine. I use Ubuntu mostly but all my Windows installations have been running nothing beside the default Windows Defenders for years without any issue. In the times of Windows XP it was much more risky though.

not looking back
I retired my note 10.1 2014 for a surface pro 3 and will never look back. Superior quality and functionality.(and im a huge samsung fan) just could not take all the manufacturing flaws anymore

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