Related
Hi!
I was just wondering if anyone would like to point me and others in the direction of some other useful threads to check out that relate to our Hero. (Not Superman, he's still GSM only)
For example, I've wondered if any subforums other than Hero CDMA in the HTC Hero Forums here on XDA have any useful info or downloads that are relevant. Also, I've been wondering the same thing about the general Android forums here on XDA.
I keep a CDMA Hero bookmark button on top of Firefox, but does anyone have any good suggestions of other sites or subforums/threads that I can add along with it and check about as much as I check Facebook, Gmail and Plentyoffish? Hahaha
The thread list is up at the top.. Under search..
Have fun with it..
http://geekfor.me/
http://forum.androidcentral.com/htc-hero/
http://forum.xda-developers.com/forumdisplay.php?f=519
these are my bookmarks on this install, i have a ton more on my other computer but can't remember them now, these are the ones i've used this week
There is plenty to read and learn both in the G2 section, and in the wider general Android forum. I highly recommend checking it out.
Haha, yeah, thanks. I was about to say thanks, ****, but I saw you're joking so it's cool.
Before anyone tries to use the old "google it" line on me, let me say, yeah - I've googled it before. I know several good sites to check out other than XDA, like android central and so on.
I'm just wondering what other people check religiously like I check this subforum.
I'm also mainly curious to know if there's even any point reading through stuff on in the GSM Hero subforums. It's so lame that we only get one lousy little subforum! There's bound to be a wealth of knowledge, downloads, etc. in the GSM subforums, but I just don't want to waste my time or learn harmful/useless things.
By the way, if I could soapbox for a minute (and this has nothing to do with the post above this one, lol), I've noticed a lot of rudeness in the CDMA Hero posts, and it's a shame.
Of course it gets annoying to see people begging for help with common issues that have been addressed a hundred times. No one denies that, but it's just something that will always be there. Unless there is a quiz on the basics of flashing ROMs and using a device before one can make posts on here, it's always going to happen. Getting annoyed with this is understandable.
However, I've noticed other types of threads posted, which while a bit annoying because we've seen the same thing over and over, really don't deserve the rudeness that they get. Who cares if there are 50 threads on here where people ask what other people prefer to use as a daily ROM, or what their home screen looks like? Does anyone lose any money or time over this? Is there a thread limit here? No. This is a community of people who have the same device and who all want to get the best out of their devices. If a thread is pointless, it will be buried quickly when no one posts in it, and the more popular threads will remain on the first page. A pointless thread will continue to stay on the first page though, when someone takes the time to make a rude post!
Anyway, sorry to rant on and on about it, but it would really be great to see the CDMA Hero community work together a little better and be a little less anal. This is probably the number one site that people with our phone check to learn more and update and generally get more out of the Hero experience. Instead of scaring people away from making new threads and posts to ask people what they like and why they like it, we should really try to encourage this. The more we all come together and explore things together (regardless of how repetitive and in some opinions possibly even trivial some of these things may be), the more we grow as a whole, and I am sure that this kind of atmosphere will encourage more people to make more and more interesting contributions.
The beauty of Android and of XDA Developers Forums is that they were both created with the goal of people coming together and developing, creating, tweaking, designing, and discussing. Before the Hero, I was permanently glued to a Dell Axim x51v, and between these forums and HTCGeeks, and a friendly and open community of users and developers, we've taken the device FAR beyond anything that anyone could have dreamed it could get to when it was made, what, 5 years ago?
thedudejdog said:
http://geekfor.me/
http://forum.androidcentral.com/htc-hero/
http://forum.xda-developers.com/forumdisplay.php?f=519
these are my bookmarks on this install, i have a ton more on my other computer but can't remember them now, these are the ones i've used this week
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Thanks a lot, I'm going to add these into a "Hero" bookmarks folder!
tejasrichard said:
There is plenty to read and learn both in the G2 section, and in the wider general Android forum. I highly recommend checking it out.
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Thanks for the info!
GSM Hero Themes/Apps Thread
Curious - is this thread useful at all to us, or will any themes and apps be useless since we're CDMA?
I already know (I think) that GSM themes won't work because they're probably designed for GSM ROMs, so all kinds of things won't be compatible. (Like trying to use a 1.5 theme on a 2.1 ROM)
Are things like widgets and clocks ROM and/or device specific? I'm on a widget hunt.
I'm new to using Helix and I'd love to find some widgets that compare to the awesome Sense widgets, particularly Sense's beautiful Messaging, Mail, Music, and Friendstream widgets.
raynda said:
However, I've noticed other types of threads posted, which while a bit annoying because we've seen the same thing over and over, really don't deserve the rudeness that they get. Who cares if there are 50 threads on here where people ask what other people prefer to use as a daily ROM, or what their home screen looks like? Does anyone lose any money or time over this? Is there a thread limit here? No. This is a community of people who have the same device and who all want to get the best out of their devices. If a thread is pointless, it will be buried quickly when no one posts in it, and the more popular threads will remain on the first page. A pointless thread will continue to stay on the first page though, when someone takes the time to make a rude post!
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It's not that we care that there is a hundred threads that say the same thing, its that if there are 100 threads of the same topic, it in effect, makes our forum usage a terror, because navigation is almost doomed from the beginning in that situation..
And it is not going to be something that is always there, because with mods actually modding these threads on other forums that I frequent daily, *they are virtually non-existant...
For the "noob" users, they cannot find these answers efficiently because the forum is blasted with the same thing over and over... With different answers in each thread..
The only way to make the "noob's" life easier, is to format the forum in a efficient and knowledge ready way...
Which by letting noob's overrun your forum, is not possible... We are hateful because you are feeding an endless chain of questions, when it could be handled in a much more effective way, if it wasn't for people flaming people who are actually looking out for the forum....
raynda said:
By the way, if I could soapbox for a minute (and this has nothing to do with the post above this one, lol), I've noticed a lot of rudeness in the CDMA Hero posts, and it's a shame.
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Yeah, it's kinda bad here... It's like that on pretty much any technical forum, but things are really over the top on this one.
It's to the point now that when I do have a question I feel like I need to devote one short paragraph to asking the question, then tack on 5 more long paragraphs explaining that I already DID search, came up empty handed, searched again, explain which keywords I searched on, etc....
Surely there's a happy medium that can be found...
azyouthinkeyeiz said:
We are hateful because you are feeding an endless chain of questions, when it could be handled in a much more effective way, if it wasn't for people flaming people who are actually looking out for the forum....
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Hey, I'm not trying to come off defensive to you in this reply because I appreciate your posts on here, but are you saying that I personally am feeding an endless chain of questions?
Also, maybe I'm wrong, but I think that the problem may be in people looking out for the forum too much, when the point of this whole XDA Developers Forum thing should be to look out for the fellow user. Like I said though, I may be wrong.
And I don't mean that it's perfectly cool to have hundreds of the same thread in here, I agree that is useless clutter. I just think that some threads that get posted do have potential for the good of the community, but they get squashed quickly by posters with bad attitudes, and then the OP in that thread and others who have the same thoughts and questions become too embarrassed or insulted/offended to post again. When that happens, someone who may have eventually provided something amazing to the community will either never get to that point, or will get there and just won't post it here because of the bad experience.
I'm sure that there are all kinds of amazing things that people have tweaked, developed, designed, and created, but they're never going to be publicly released for one reason or another. Let's not let the reason be that they were treated like they were stupid when they were finding their way on these forums.
subliminalurge said:
Yeah, it's kinda bad here... It's like that on pretty much any technical forum, but things are really over the top on this one.
It's to the point now that when I do have a question I feel like I need to devote one short paragraph to asking the question, then tack on 5 more long paragraphs explaining that I already DID search, came up empty handed, searched again, explain which keywords I searched on, etc....
Surely there's a happy medium that can be found...
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That's exactly what I'm talking about. People will get to the point that they just won't post anything when they have an idea or a question because there's no happy medium. And the worse it gets, the less progress we make as a whole.
raynda said:
Hey, I'm not trying to come off defensive to you in this reply because I appreciate your posts on here, but are you saying that I personally am feeding an endless chain of questions?
Also, maybe I'm wrong, but I think that the problem may be in people looking out for the forum too much, when the point of this whole XDA Developers Forum thing should be to look out for the fellow user. Like I said though, I may be wrong.
And I don't mean that it's perfectly cool to have hundreds of the same thread in here, I agree that is useless clutter. I just think that some threads that get posted do have potential for the good of the community, but they get squashed quickly by posters with bad attitudes, and then the OP in that thread and others who have the same thoughts and questions become too embarrassed or insulted/offended to post again. When that happens, someone who may have eventually provided something amazing to the community will either never get to that point, or will get there and just won't post it here because of the bad experience.
I'm sure that there are all kinds of amazing things that people have tweaked, developed, designed, and created, but they're never going to be publicly released for one reason or another. Let's not let the reason be that they were treated like they were stupid when they were finding their way on these forums.
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No not you specifically. Sorry that was an analogous "you".. And I totally agree.. But 95% of the ones get shot down immediately, deserve it, even though you might not think so, from the people with answers, you will know almost immediately if it merits further investigation. Wishful-thinking and impossible sometimes walk a very narrow line. Developers and end-users have entirely different mindsets.. That's never going to change.. But the end-users should have a more thorough understanding of what it is we do for you and *developers should be more compassionate "for the most part (there are alot of caring devs)..
Where this sub-forum was destroyed, was giving it sub-forum status and not its own separate forum, like every other HTC device.. Then, we would get a development sub-forum, themes forum, etc. The development is different than the GSM Hero, so why doesn't it deserve its own?
You will see, that with honest concerns and problems, I will go to the end of the world for you...
But, if you want something from me, (effort to help you) you must at least show some sort of effort to solve the issue, besides "NEW TOPIC< IS MY PHONE BRICKED?"
azyouthinkeyeiz said:
You will see, that with honest concerns and problems, I will go to the end of the world for you...
But, if you want something from me, (effort to help you) you must at least show some sort of effort to solve the issue, besides "NEW TOPIC< IS MY PHONE BRICKED?"
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I can definitely see your point.
But this is where the happy medium needs to be found. I know I'm the exception rather than the rule on this point, but by the time I post asking for help, it's safe to say I've spent at least one day each both trying to figure out an answer on my own (and I'm fairly capable), and searching this forum, other forums, and google to see if anyone else has had and solved the same problem.
That's effort that isn't seen, but it's extremely frustrating to feel obligated to explain it all in detail in exchange for the privilege of asking a question.
Now, don't take this post the wrong way. There's absolutely nothing wrong with expecting people to do a little digging on their own before they come crying for help.
I just think this forum (as a whole, not you specifically) has gone a bit over the top with how much "proof" of that digging is required before someone can feel comfortable asking their question.
(And I'm not really even complaining, just offering my observations on a topic that was already brought up for discussion....)
I get very sarcastic... But only because I think sarcasm is funny...
And you really don't have to explain it yourself *in every post.. Because most of us with a thorough background, can tell how much effort you put in, just by your question... (edit* Yourself is again analogous, not you)
For Example, the 2.1 thread this morning...
I opened it up, thinking to myself "Not again"...
But when I read and see that it was actually about A2DP, mindset about the thread changes, and I go into help mode... That invoked thought and development just from that post..
Now if I had opened it up, and it was a brand new "Can I change back to a rooted rom after the OTA update" question... I would have went into sarcasm mode... And I don't want to help that guy be lazy.. Why should we give him the benefit of spouting off verbatim what has been answered 1000 times before, just because he can't take the 20 mins to peruse over a couple threads??
I am all about the education of every single member of this forum, into all of the ways of Android... But its like what my papaw used to tell me, "You get what you put in."
And to ray...
Download GMOB chat, from the market...
Go to the rooted users chat, and there is usually alot of good info there, you just have to sort of wade through some of it, since you only get to see like the 50 most recent posts.. So it takes a little more effort to find anything... Also the apps room is pretty cool...
I have found technorati.com is getting alot better...
androidfreeware.com is good for apps.
OK, now to take the completely opposite side....
I was just reading another topic and in 5 minutes I saw 3 different questions posted that had been answered ON THAT SAME PAGE!!!
The proper profanity has not yet been invented to describe people like that.
See subliminal...
It's not that I don't wanna see those questions asked, I just want people to understand the nature of a forum, and alot* here do not...
If people read, before they start looking for answers, we would be alot better..
The issue is, that all of these people look to have a very limited understanding of Android, and just want a phone to use.. And this is not the forum for those.. Android-central, sprintusers.com, etc are more appropriate..
This forum is for development, not for chatting about the evo, or why your 1.5 is better than 2.1.. or how android is the iphone killer..
This forum is to bring ideas to our platform, and to build upon them... And to release mods and hacks..
Not for people to rant about how sprint sucks, and I want a nexus one..
Or to rant about how developers are stealing our donations....
It is to make our phone better, and with people feeding this nonsense, we are hindering the forum from where it should be...
azyouthinkeyeiz said:
Not for people to rant about how sprint sucks, and I want a nexus one..
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But what if Sprint sucks, the Nexus One is a POS...
AND....
Why can't I get a Nexus One on Sprint?
(I really do understand both sides of the issue. I just kinda agree that some on this forum are a bit quick on the draw with the "Use the search you ****in' noob!" gun....)
azyouthinkeyeiz said:
And to ray...
Download GMOB chat, from the market...
Go to the rooted users chat, and there is usually alot of good info there, you just have to sort of wade through some of it, since you only get to see like the 50 most recent posts.. So it takes a little more effort to find anything... Also the apps room is pretty cool...
I have found technorati.com is getting alot better...
androidfreeware.com is good for apps.
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Hey thanks, I'll check that out! By the way, after thinking about it today and catching up on this thread's replies, I think we're thinking on the same page.
It would be handy, I think, if we could get some extremely well written and dummy-proof How-To's stickied for the main page. I know there is already a sticky wicky for guides, but I remember still being a bit lost even having read them when I was new to the Hero. I wrote some extremely detailed step by step how-to's for the x51v over at htcgeeks, and though it might be my own vanity speaking, I think that it slowed down the constant repetitive questions. I'd volunteer to help out with this if we could get some Mod help to reorganize the stickies. I think we should have individual ones for...
- How To Setup an SD Card for A2SD
- How To Install Recovery and How To Use It (Nandroids, what they are, wipes, which ones to use for what, Fix UID's explanation, etc.)
- How To Flash a Custom ROM
- How To Flash a Custom Theme
- Troubleshooting PC Sync Issues
- How To Setup and Use ADB Shell with a list of ADB functions
I know we have this stuff now, but I remember it took a while to find all the info I needed to learn all these things when I was new to the Hero, and the current Guides sticky wasn't as helpful as it could have been. And I'm a pretty resourceful and intelligent guy who can search, read, and follow instructions! (Or at least I like to think so, lol)
Oh, and to make a preventative strike against hundreds of future bug reports on new ROMs, giant bold text on every page of every thread that says "WIPE DATA, DALVIK CACHE, AND SD EXT BEFORE FLASHING A DIFFERENT ROM!!!
Honestly I am starting to get sick at the attitude of some of the members of this forum. It takes more time to ***** than to just simply skip the post and go to the next one.
As the forum gets bigger (XDA today is huge!) you will have simply no way of avoiding these kinds of posts. Telling them to go search or being rude to anyone is NOT going to help.
This used to be strictly a developer forum but with all the press it's getting, the site has been growing a lot over the past few years, and by being an ass you're insulting the very people that are helping this site grow, and even those saying HUGE THANKS by donating money to you for your hard work. How rude is that?
C'mon, let's be more upbeat, forgiving and helpful towards our fellow members and let the actual moderators do their jobs.
/rant
It's 50/50 I just avoid reading something if I know I might get a littlke snarky about it and I agree with some of what you're saying. It had someone today that made a thread asking for something that was literally 3 threads down from his post. I found that rather annoying. But still pointed him in the right direction. NOT everyone is as patient as some of the members here. Just saying.
Kshawn said:
It's 50/50 I just avoid reading something if I know I might get a littlke snarky about it and I agree with some of what you're saying. It had someone today that made a thread asking for something that was literally 3 threads down from his post. I found that rather annoying. But still pointed him in the right direction. NOT everyone is as patient as some of the members here. Just saying.
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I don't mind when people flame them for not searching...as long as they then answer the question (like you). Because it is so annoying down the road when you are searching an issue...and a thread comes up with your exact problem...and the only replies are telling the person to go search..when that's what you're doing!
There comes a time when people get to the breaking point with lazy people not wanting to search. In those instances it is absolutely infuriating, particularly with someone posting like was done earlier where the answer to his question was literally on the same page... Not only that, it was in the dev forum to boot.
I'm sorry but it doesn't do the community any good to have people come join who contribute nothing to the forum but enrage everyone who has to tell them to UTFSE...
EtherealRemnant said:
There comes a time when people get to the breaking point with lazy people not wanting to search. In those instances it is absolutely infuriating, particularly with someone posting like was done earlier where the answer to his question was literally on the same page... Not only that, it was in the dev forum to boot.
I'm sorry but it doesn't do the community any good to have people come join who contribute nothing to the forum but enrage everyone who has to tell them to UTFSE...
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^^^^^
This.
We are a development forum, this isn't the place to get hand held and walked through the same idiots guide 30 times with pictures and line by line instructions. I have no problems helping people that want to help themselves. Seeing, "Why can't i flash this" when they aren't even rooted, have nand locked and never bothered to even check the stickies angers me to no end.
We were all noobs once and we learned really quickly to search, read and then read some more. When you think you know what you have to do then you should read some more. Then try.
Many here flash development kernels and then we end up with 15 pages of 55 fps OMG. Camera is broke! Can we fix it? OMG I have an epson with screen tearing I'm going to return this pos! Nova panel no fix? Dude I'm returning it for an epson!
Don't even get me started on the cross device posts and people threatening to return their device. Return the damn thing. I don't need you to justify my decisions. I also don't equate my penis size with my phone so; grats the Iphone records 720p awesome if that is what you need then by all means help yourself. No need to post. No need to post "I love my EVO" Threads in some lame attempt to counter act the negativity of another device doing something better than yours. Take that stuff to one of the other laid back forums where people aren't actively trying to fix problems.
Grims said:
I don't mind when people flame them for not searching...as long as they then answer the question (like you). Because it is so annoying down the road when you are searching an issue...and a thread comes up with your exact problem...and the only replies are telling the person to go search..when that's what you're doing!
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Why should I waste my time digging the link up for them? Then they are just going to expect it EVERY time and we will keep getting the same posts from the same people who are too lazy to take the time and search and read.
Tough call, I am relatively new here but I help a lot at other forums and this stuff happens everywhere. Some days I bite my lip and some days I am a smart ass.
I definately agree that if you decide to reply you should say something useful so to not populate everyone elses search results with useless info. Of course the bad part about ignoring a noob's post is that they will then keep bumping it themselves until someone tells them to go search....so you can't win!
The other day when I posted at another forum that progress was being made on nova panels and the 30fps cap I flat out told them I wasn't going to post the link because the developers needed the thread to work. I of course credited xda just didn't give them the thread.
Sent from my EVO using Tapatalk
EtherealRemnant said:
I'm sorry but it doesn't do the community any good to have people come join who contribute nothing to the forum but enrage everyone who has to tell them to UTFSE...
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Actually, by telling them to just search and not answer their question, we will ultimately HURT those who are actually UTFSE....Google. By responding to them you are BUMPING the thread. Either let it die, let a moderator take care of it or simply tell them to search, but point them to right direction kindly and with respect.
It's pretty apparent that UTFSE is a common issue and maybe you can modify behavior through the forum itself? I don't see why the forum can't search out the keywords being used, sentences and such and force the user to "review" previous postings prior to making a new one? It could even go as far as to have them review and check off certain starred postings "before" making a new one. I have been blasted on other forums for not searching and thus I learned my lesson very quickly. Since it is such a common issue on many different boards, I would think someone could come up with a solution.
My .02-
I don't know how much I agree with the OP. I have been using these forums for maybe a year or two at this point and for the most part the balance seems to be 80% helpful 20% trolls. I figure that everywhere, in any forum there are always going to be trolls but on the whole XDA has ALWAYS been helpful. Maybe I'm just lucky and havent had to deal with too many trolls but either way, while I agree with the OP, not sure how large scale of a problem this really is.
I think one of the biggest problems is search itself. I can find my way around ok, but even searching can take an inordinate amount of time.
People tend to take the path of least resistance, so if they have two choices: search or ask, they'll take the option that requires the least effort--they'll ask. So even though they get *****ed at about searching, they'll still just ask because they're likely to get an answer in a few minutes without having to do any work.
I believe the answer, and what would help this community the most, is to consolidate the most requested information in a SINGLE SIMPLE place. I've checked out the wikis, but to be honest, things move so fast here, even the wikis get out of date quickly.
Consider some of the most asked newb questions:
"How do I flash this"
"I can't get adb to work"
"When will it be out"
"My battery sucks, what do I do"
Most of this information is readily accessible with a search, but the advice is varied as much as the individual results. For those of us who understand what we're reading and who can filter the wheat from the chaff, tinkering is great fun. For others, they just want expert and reliable information that works.
How do we put that together?
For example, I've seen advice such as: "To save your battery, remove the people widget." I get four hours of battery @ 100% with the people widget, so am I lucky? Is that bad advice? At best, it appears anecdotal. What we owe the community, and the newb offenders that generated this topic is fact based, concise advise that is easy to read, easy to obtain, and easy to download.
I also think XDA should start adding moderators commensurate with its growth. Moderators should DELETE DELETE DELETE posts that burn time and energy when this information is readily available. XDA is nothing but a big ass database of information, and like any other database: Garbage in, Garbage out. We need to keep the forums clean with relevant information.
I agree with the OPs original aims: We should be gracious to newcomers and help people out. I'm sick and tired of reading snarky "go search you dumbass" posts, but I also agree, it does get REAL OLD seeing the same old "I flashed this and now I'm bootlooping, OMG, someone help me now"
One last point and I'll shut-up: The devs spend WAY TOO MUCH time doing bull**** troubleshooting. If we all stepped up and took care of the basic PD for their work, they'd be free to keep doing what we really want them doing and that's improving their ROMS, Apps, Themes etc. So while we work on figuring out how to manage information, you can best help out by answering every question you can so your friendly dev can keep coding.
Apologize for the rant...
What a waste of thread space on XDA.
Why enable dependence in people? They either learn it the right way, and learn to read on their own, or they should just leave and never come back. Once you've been here a while and see the baffling amount of stupidity and laziness that is exhibited by people who just "expect" everything to be served to them, I couldn't give a flying f**k if I'm nice to them or not.
On the other hand, if it's obvious that the person has done his own homework and is still unable to reach some sort of consensus on the matter, or is just trying to get affirmation on what he's about to do with his phone, then by all means for helping the person and making sure he doesn't end up with an electronic-has-been-brick.
XDA is not a handheld daycare center. I'd rather XDA grow slowly with people that are actually worth having, than having XDA grow like mushrooms overnight but filled with spoiled, self-justifying narcissists on what they deem should be their right when it comes to simple forum etiquette and common sense.
PoisonWolf said:
What a waste of thread space on XDA.
Why enable dependence in people? They either learn it the right way, and learn to read on their own, or they should just leave and never come back. Once you've been here a while and see the baffling amount of stupidity and laziness that is exhibited by people who just "expect" everything to be served to them, I couldn't give a flying f**k if I'm nice to them or not.
On the other hand, if it's obvious that the person has done his own homework and is still unable to reach some sort of consensus on the matter, or is just trying to get affirmation on what he's about to do with his phone, then by all means for helping the person and making sure he doesn't end up with an electronic-has-been-brick.
XDA is not a handheld daycare center. I'd rather XDA grow slowly with people that are actually worth having, than having XDA grow like mushrooms overnight but filled with spoiled, self-justifying narcissists on what they deem should be their right when it comes to simple forum etiquette and common sense.
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Gotta agree 100%.
Give a man a fish (or thread link) and you feed him for a day... Teach him to fish (or search) and you feed him for a lifetime.
PoisonWolf said:
What a waste of thread space on XDA.
Why enable dependence in people? They either learn it the right way, and learn to read on their own, or they should just leave and never come back. Once you've been here a while and see the baffling amount of stupidity and laziness that is exhibited by people who just "expect" everything to be served to them, I couldn't give a flying f**k if I'm nice to them or not.
On the other hand, if it's obvious that the person has done his own homework and is still unable to reach some sort of consensus on the matter, or is just trying to get affirmation on what he's about to do with his phone, then by all means for helping the person and making sure he doesn't end up with an electronic-has-been-brick.
XDA is not a handheld daycare center. I'd rather XDA grow slowly with people that are actually worth having, than having XDA grow like mushrooms overnight but filled with spoiled, self-justifying narcissists on what they deem should be their right when it comes to simple forum etiquette and common sense.
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Finally! I couldn't agree more.
I will have to say that I think XDA desperately needs a wiki-post forum feature like the ones on slickdeals.net or fatwallet.
Would save a ton of time on these massive threads with posts that might have outdated info.
jmxp69 said:
I think one of the biggest problems is search itself. I can find my way around ok, but even searching can take an inordinate amount of time.
Most of this information is readily accessible with a search, but the advice is varied as much as the individual results. For those of us who understand what we're reading and who can filter the wheat from the chaff, tinkering is great fun. For others, they just want expert and reliable information that works.
How do we put that together?
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I couldn't disagree with this more. XDA is not an end user support forum, it is a forum for exploring new development techniques and ways to hack devices. The main purpose of XDA, in my opinion, is NOT to provide sweet consice fully working solutions. The purpose is to share information that leads up to finding complete solutions.
If new users want to find easy answers then they should use another forum, such as AndroidForums, which do a pretty good job of only linking back to XDA if it is a complete solution. If users want to use XDA then they need to deal with SEARCHING through the developmental process.
While the constant occurrence of people refusing to search on their own is annoying, I find the flat out disgust for anything not Android (or w/e forum you're in) to be painfully immature. It happens everywhere but there are too many posts on here that sound like a 12 year old "dissing" some other kid in school (iPhone the majority of the time).
06ms6 said:
I find the flat out disgust for anything not Android (or w/e forum you're in) to be painfully immature. It happens everywhere but there are too many posts on here that sound like a 12 year old "dissing" some other kid in school (iPhone the majority of the time).
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Depends on how it is done. Personally I enjoy the friendly banter between IPhone an Android.
And it is interesting to compare issues between devices.
ramiss said:
Depends on how it is done. Personally I enjoy the friendly banter between IPhone an Android.
And it is interesting to compare issues between devices.
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Comparing is good. Some people have used the same phone for a year or two and are just now experiencing a new handset or even a new operating system.
It is when the whole one-sided "fanboy" bickering happens...that the thread goes to sh-t
Why are some answers rude . If a person posts without giving it much fore thought and an answer appears to be self evident what do you gain by calling them stupid or giving a "Snotty" answer. In my opinion the person make the rude comments are showing there own stupidity. If a person makes an obvious error you can politely bring it to there attention without name calling.
I think the biggest problem here in xda is people dont search.. People ask questions that have been asked loads of times.
What a stupid question!!!
How dare you clog up the boards with this rubbish!!!
Just kidding mate
Its like my dear old mum used to say...
"Some people are just dicks"
Sent From My Toaster Using A Tin Can And Some String
BTW it's "impolite"
I think I'll vent a little here, if you don't mind..
.. but as Shum97 said, people don't search. The forum search may not be up to scratch or hard to navigate for new visitors, but it is there. Maybe having an even bigger and glaring button SEARCH would help leviate some of the [Q]this-[Q]that topics which don't get past the 5 post stage.
Another way of searching is to use Google and add "xda" into your search query. Try searching up "xda unpolite hd2" and see if you can get back to this thread (not directed at you OP).
Now a major point I think is worth mentioning:
Notice the transition of Apple iPods and iPhones from a somewhat unknown in the early 2004-05's to a global sensation beyond? Also notice an increase in "iPhone is da best ur fone cnt beat it ha!" and / or "ZOMG sum1 help me wif my prob plueeeeeeze". Once devices start becoming popular beyond the moderate / advanced computer-literate customers it starts becoming a nightmare to browse any useful comments amongst the sea of flamers and fanboys.
I think that's what is happening to the HD2. Due to its massive screen (seems size is what average joes think about) and the moderate but decent exposure by xda users, this phone in particular by HTC has begun to gain in popularity. Likewise, the phenomenon with the increase in popularity (leads to) the increase in irritating posts on this forum (or any forum really).
How to solve this?
Answering much of the questions in the Questions forum could help stem the overflow of [Q] or even [Req] topics into other forums. The reason why they are spilling over is nobody wants to answer endless questions with virtually no information and endless repetition. How to deal with that? I don't know..
And believe it or not, how you construct and word your questions can be determinate of your response time and how engaged the responder is to your query.
Questions like this..
Hey all, I am having problems with the bluetooth settings on my international HD2 (stock WWE 1.61). When connecting to my Sony Ericsson HSH925, the prompt mentions driver x missing. After browsing through some other topics, there seems to be a conflict between program x and y which causes this driver to be erased. I have tried the drivers from the other topics but they were all for ROMs before 1.61. Would anyone have a fix for this or would we have to wait for HTC to release an updated driver?
.. will most likely get answered and stay on track.
Questions like this..
HLP I CNT CONNECT MY BT HEADSET 2 MY HD2 I tried connecting thru da menu but it not work. Srry if its been asked b4 srry if its been asked b4 srry if its been asked b4 srry if its been asked b4csrry if its been asked b4 srry if its been asked b4 srry if its been asked b4 srry if its been asked b4 help me PLS PLS PLS PLS PLS PLS PLS PLS PLS PLS PLS PLS *bump* *bump* *bump* *bump* *bump* *bump* *bump* *bump*
.. will most likely be ignored.
The other possibility (and this is to the extreme, but not necessarily impossible), is that advanced users / developers / testers will move off to another site, leaving this forum to wash away in endless never-finished topics. An example I like to compare to is remember (if anyone's old enough) how downloading (by that I mean illegal downloading of pirated material unfortunately), was a sort of niche, a nerdy / geeky past-time who nobody below a Major in IT would understand? Then it slowly become popular over time, and then rose sites such as Kasaa, then LimeWire, then torrent sites. Where next? Because it has become so popular, it has also attracted the flack of anti-piracy regulators (rightly-so) which just never would of happened had it remained secluded and nobody-knew-about-it-basis. I "think" the next big thing would be VPNs and proxys, but you ain't hear nothing from me.
Anyway I hope the forums don't turn out to be what the X1 forums are now (which I was a proud owner of). And to go back to the OP, I guess on behalf of xda to the wider non-tech-savvy community, we aren't angry or unpolite by nature, we are just tired of answered questions and one-line flame comments silluetting out the actual developments and hacking topics that has made the HD2 greater than it ever was.
*going to troll the Questions forum now*
I'm with btyeh on this one.
a big tip is when using google, try typing:
site:xda-developers.com [your search terms here]
i.e.
site:xda-developers.com hd2 unpolite
The top search result should be this topic.
I've been an avid user of these boards for quite a while, and encourage people to help others (as I do), but it doesn't work if people don't bother to try and help themselves first.
You wouldn't get much help if you rang a support line and said "it's broken, fix it"
Its not easy to help someone with so little detail.
What is broken?
How is it broken?
What has happened to it recently/has anything changed?
I've noticed a much larger number of topics that are repeating, and quite frankly, its making me think twice about even looking at the site, let alone bother to take the time to respond to the 4th topic of the same problem on page 1 alone.
If it chaps your "delicates", why answer? Why even look? skip the thread and go on about your day instead of being a complete prick to some stranger.
Sad thing about the internet, is that because it's through the safety of a terminal, people have sacrificed manners and common sense.
If you don't want XDA to become the next youtube-comments site, then learn to not be a search-nazi. The annoying people asking annoying questions will go away or learn to ask the right questions.
btyeh
I really value the time it took to post that. Specially when 9 out of 10 of my post go ignored. I could post something here or in another forum and it would be the same result.
I usually provide a lot of detail and thats because I really want to show that I've done my research. Doing my own research shows to me that I value others time.
I will have to agree that a lot of flames start by the person failing to search.
So now we have a delimma.
Those who arse are chapped by the insane amount of double and tripple post are asked to ignore it and move on. Those who post these topics are asked to do searches and not double post.
No one puts their foot down and says dont flame or your banned. No one puts their foot down and says do a search or be banned.
I know that sounds harsh but I think both needs addressing. The site needs to get under control the amount of first timers who ask questions and dont bother to do a search. The site also needs to put the jerks flamers and a-holes in check also myself included.
I guess my beef is I mostly have to search for these things myself. I think its only fair that someone else have to do the same. Atleast show some effort.
I am making a effort to not to be a jerk to new memebers. I Actually wont answer the thread if i think i am going to be mean.
hazard99 said:
btyeh
I am making a effort to not to be a jerk to new memebers. I Actually wont answer the thread if i think i am going to be mean.
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I think we all make this effort.. but to some dudes.. its just the wrong day.. like i avoided answering this thread because i think its the most whiney ass man on man sex **** i have ever heard in my life to write a thread crying about how someone was/ is inpolite to you or someone else on a forum..
but here i am.
I think its not just the way we answer new folks though but the way the questions are asked...
when there is a thread called
"Question"
regardless what comes when you open it.. the dude deserves to get flamed.. for not even prefacing us with what a question was about.. and wasting time space and bandwidth just to pacify his own simple.. ignorance.
This being said.. a newer person posted a Question the other day and less than 4 hours later was *****ing no one answered him yet... yea i made a smart ass comment about him being a **** for expecting people to answer him in a manner of seconds.. but i also answered him. .and tried my best to help him with his issue..
i guess what im saying.. is as the theoretical knowledgeable portion of this forum we are probably going to flame ignorant questions... but we need to try and answer the questions at the same time..
Yea you might call someone an idiot for asking an idiotic question.. but if you are gonna take the time to flame.. take the time to point them the right direction while your at it.
conantroutman said:
sent from my toaster using a tin can and some string
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two camels in a tiny car!
Because i did my due diligence and search like anyone who's tech savvy enough with an ounce of logic (and if you're not those type, you shouldn't be involved with ROM flashing and should just stick with stock ROM), so I don't see how that gives other people the free pass to post whatever their hearts desire without giving us some background to their problems.
Sure, I've seen threads where people were unsure of their problems but they post a laundry list with background info, pics, ROM version, etc....yet there are others who simply post "HD2 froze...phone wont get past white screen." I'm sorry, but stupidity and lack of awareness are not excuses for you to post whatever you want. What's funny are the people who complain about the "unpolite"ness every week, yet are still as shortsightedness as the people who post without any measurable contents.
greenkonstantinos said:
I have problem with my htc hd 2 rom 19.4 leo . I can't send or recieve e-mails. Can someone help me?
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Just answered this one over in Q&A.
Could have been rude, but that wouldn't help him with his email problem, wouldn't have made him more likely to provide background in the future, only would have made me an asshole.
When he reply's back with the proper background info, I will try my best to help him, and then kindly bring to his attention that in the future he should search twice , then gather the apropriate background info, then post his question.
The old carrot and stick technique usually provides the best results for all.
Plus the reason he didn't post all the background info may be because he has been trying for an hour to get it to work, and may be upset that he is not able to get important emails tomorrow at work.
Being rude to people is an easy way, and easy ways usually don't pay.
There is seldom ever a reason to be unpolite
There's a couple things not mentioned so far that also contribute to the impoliteness:
Often the people who would reply have done so already for another person, and are now fed up seeing the same question.
If you've been around here for as long as some of us, or have been on a device thread since it was new, you've seen the same question asked possibly hundreds of times. How many new threads ask how to flash? Or "HELP! I'VE BRICKED MY PHONE"?
I don't remember ever opening a thread to ask a question, I just know that someone else has already asked it, and it has been answered already, I just gotta find it. Even a lot of googling is quicker than waiting for a reply anyway.
On the other side, there are some things which can be annoying about these responses, that is:
When the answer is buried in a ROM thread, and there is no dedicated thread to the problem.
or
There are more threads about the problem which say "search for 'x'", than there are actual threads with solution 'x', making searching unlikely to give the results you want. Often there is only one small thread, such as the disabling the HTC customisations thread which is only a few pages.
or
The search terms are not obvious (such as the same thread already mentioned) if you don't know the details of the problem, or the answer very well, then it can be hard to know what to search for.
I think compared to other forums ive seen XDA is by far the best almost everybody is really helpfull a few bad apples though just like every forum. But I think everyone needs to be patient to n00bs as we have all been there. I too have been guilty of posting without searching but thats since has changed.
Eitherway you guys on XDA rock
Hi there.
If you're new to Android, how about you actually figure out the OS before you go ***** in the forums to developers?
People seem to think that XDA is a place to go get updates for their phone, and then complain about how it has problems.
It isn't. Developers don't owe you squat. They put out what they WANT to put out. XDA is a development forum, made by developers for developers. If you don't know what you're doing, don't do it.
Also, people tend to ***** about problems that they caused themselves. For example, I see people complaining in kernel threads about how they undervolted their phone by -75mv in SetCPU and then complain about how they got a freeze or a SoD and proceed to ask the developer to "fix kernal pl0x".
If you mess with system settings, take a second to think that what you're doing *might* be causing problems.
If you DO have a legitimate problem, take a second to think that someone else might have the problem. Search the thread and check if someone else has the same problem. One thing that is somewhat recurring is people saying "herp I'm too lazy to search 5 pages in the thread". If you're too lazy to click your mouse a few times, kindly consider driving off a cliff.
Also, fun fact, did you know that every time you ***** about battery life a baby seal drowns? True story.
Let your battery go through 2 charge cycles, check for wakelocks on your phone with BetterBatteryStats. If all else fails, consider charging your phone overnight. It's not like you live in an Amazonian forest with no power and need your smartphone to last for a month without charging. Go buy an old Nokia if you need your battery to last long.
Here's another thought: try to make your post even remotely readable. Use proper English, it helps us actually understand whatever you're trying to say.
Spare us all headaches and use your common sense.
Here's some more reading material: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=19643797&postcount=5298
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leech_(computing)
Good point well made.
Well said - although I might have said in more gentle terms But there is no doubt whatsoever that any settings, ROM flashing, kernel flashing etc. is at the users own risk and no developer can be held responsible for any damage!
Isn't it possible somehow to make a checklist for new users that are important before they mess around? As they are new we got to help them in order to avoid the "stupid" questions.
Sent from my GT-I9100 using xda premium
Agree with you that XDA is a Developers forum
But on a side note I am sure Devs like that their work is appreciated and in turn I am sure it motivates them to continue working towards better roms and stuff.
I have seen most Devs on XDA take it as creative criticism and always try to get work arounds preety quickly which is think is super brilliant.
You can't stop people *****ing around its each person's nature and I guess we can just ignore them and carry on with the good things that XDA has to offer us.
Besides N00bs will be Noobs - I still am and grateful for XDA Dev's and Members for their Support
Still a Good Point made...
While I agree with most points made, I should also point out the obvious point that without users there's no need for developers. I'm sure the developers would like people to make use of their work.
Also, while searching in theory is nice, sometimes it doesn't work. A problem can be described in many ways. I fully support that users should search before asking, but don't be too hard on people who ask. Some may have searched and failed to find relevant answers.
Totally agree. But with android selling like wild fire the noob intake will increase like crazy. Call it pure laziness to be honest lol.
Sent from my GT-I9100 using xda premium
Logi_Ca1 said:
without users there's no need for developers
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lol.... looks like you really know how this site started..
As i said on a previous thread temporary bannings need to start being issued should people come on and start asking questions which have been answered dozens of times before, i don't know if it's possible in the registration process so newbies can be informed that they need to use the search function first and foremost for any questions where they will most likely find the answer to their questions and only if they cant may then then start a thread where they will most likely get plenty of assistance,when i first joined it was nowhere near as bad as it is now, it's quite painful coming on here sometimes and looking at the same old questions day in,day out.
@OP- Read this before you spread your smart advices to others.
• http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_forum
Forum definition: A public meeting place for open discussion.
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I also may add when i first joined or rather a few weeks before i registered i done a bit of reading on XDA to try and familiar myself with some of the topics and jargon used as i didn't really have a clue about anything like this, but back to my original point, use the search function and chances are it will bring up something that your looking for at this stage i cant think of anything that hasn't been covered on here with regard to the SGSII.
ithehappy said:
@OP- Read this before you spread your smart advices to others.
• http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_forum
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You see, forums are made to discuss specific things. This particular forum was made to discuss development for Windows Mobile and Android. Therefore, we should keep discussion specific to development. And I'm pretty sure development talk isn't "FIX KERNAL PL0X BATTERY DRAINZZ!".
But then again, what do I know.
Maybe a little aggressive, especially to new members, I understand the point being made, but I like many others have come here to ask for advice and share my finding with other like minded android users, some of the advice I've found most useful has been from other new members with similar issues and questions. Be careful not to frighten new folks off. I've seen threads like this destroy forums in the past. It's all about the wording, and coming across friendly, but allowing folks to understand how the forum works. From what I've read, there are plenty of warning on the rooting and firmware threads, so users have been warned before they try anything vaguely risky. There will always be those who don't heed the advice, but those folks ain't likely to read this thread. Anyhoots peace to all, as this a great place.
so unfriendly. everybody started off as noobs, including developers.
Seifer1975 said:
so unfriendly. everybody started off as noobs, including developers.
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I'm not bashing noobs, I'm telling them to stop being idiots.
I agree with the op.
Each time I have come accross a problem, it has been remedied by returning to the developer's thread to follow the instructions properly, along with taking on board what tips fellow members have said in the assosiated thread.
If I can figure that much out -which isn't rocket science- then I am sure that other should be able to. If only we lived in 'should land'.
Sent from my GT-I9100 using XDA App
At this point I'm glad that we still have developers here. I couldn't develop my way out of a hostage situation, but am willing to:
Follow the instructions,
Search if I have a problem,
Verify that I did indeed follow the instructions,
Provide a detailed description of problem if I can't rectify,
Present the developer with any info they may need to diagnose (logs, etc...),
Respect the distinction between Q&A and development,
When it doubt watch the video again, you're a noob f-stick and so am I,
Don't piss and moan when I have an issue, I elected to not have a stock phone, nobody held a gun to my head, but if you piss and moan it makes me want to hold a Kalashnikov to yours: search, contribute, learn to troubleshoot.
The Me Generation, need I say more?
I've been sickened keeping up with the siriya thread at the amount of people asking dumb questions too. It doesn't seem to be getting any better.
I work retail and I barely barely have enough free time or energy to keep up with playing with my galaxy s. I have no idea how these developers even do it.
People need to learn some respect for these amazing guys. But I guess the amount of noobs will only ever increase. So I guess the devs will need to adapt.
Anyway, one reason I'm posting this is because it's my 10th post and this allows me to go and post my thanks in the syriya thread!
Sent from my GT-I9100 using XDA App
Logi_Ca1 said:
While I agree with most points made, I should also point out the obvious point that without users there's no need for developers. I'm sure the developers would like people to make use of their work.
Also, while searching in theory is nice, sometimes it doesn't work. A problem can be described in many ways. I fully support that users should search before asking, but don't be too hard on people who ask. Some may have searched and failed to find relevant answers.
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Well that's one of the things. Developers don't do it just for people to use it. They do it for learning, testing, and fun. There were custom roms for smartphones when only other developers used it. Did that stop them? Nope we got great things like Cookies Hometab and MaxSense. Everytime I hear "without users their would be no developers" I just have to sit back and say "really what do you think we have been doing on XDA for years before the average user even knew what a smartphone was?"
There is a lot of pointless stuff posted on xda now, often by people who show no respect for the fact that everything here is free of charge. The price of free is that you do a little legwork & read the threads before posting crap like "help i bricked my phone" or "why don't you take the softkeys off the ics gui" which must have been asked 3000 times, when will you release it, which is the best rom? etc.
The admins asked for suggestions last year on how to manage the influx of new members. I didn't suggest anything so I now reap what I sowed. I do have some suggestions now though; let the devs, admins and people with something to download start new threads for free and make the people starting helpdesk or spammy type threads pay, use a keyword or keyphrase blocklist to stop people who can't be bothered to read or who want to ask unreasonable questions from clogging up the threads.
Xda now has adverts so obviously the more the merrier for revenue but if the target is quantity over quality the mods shouldn't complain when they go and clean all the spam out of threads, instead they should just say thanks for your spam please call again soon.
So what is the aim, quality or quantity?
Sent from my GT-I9100 using XDA App
umadbro?!?!?!
I wanted to detail how much different the subsections are in xda, and how much you guys rock in this one.
Rant!-
I got jumped on in the mt4g section for posting a bug that was persisting through SEVERAL factory resets and rom flashes..for some reason i kept getting errors for processes for Samsung (on a htc..) And sign in failure for verizon (on a t mobile phone ). Even after wiping and re flashing different roms these problems persisted..so i detailed my attempt to find out why i got the bug, asked other users if they had experienced it (none had) and eventually traced the problem to the test rom i had installed. I brought this to the dev's attention by linking to my q&a thread on his dev thread only to be scolded that the issues were known, it was a test rom that i had no business flashing anyways, i should have read the thread as the issues were mentioned and known (which is why other users had never heard or experienced the issue??) And then the dev, on my account, pulled the link to the rom which angered other users whom then joined in chorus to say it was my own fault for not reading the bugs, when i said it wasn't in the bug list, was told "he doesn't have time to make a bug list for every test rom" (so where i was supposed to read that this bug existed i was never able to find, even after requesting to be linked to it).
The real icing on the cake was the fact that i spent 7 hours troubleshooting the bug, only a nandroid backup fixed it and thank god i had done a backup before installing it, and had searched extensively on Google in general and within xda forum for anyone having similar issue and no result, but was looked at as if i had wandered in, said "oh this looks cool"and flashed it and then proceeded to spam the dev thread with my problems.
Needless to say, I'll be selling this phone and not returning to that section as i am clearly not wanted there..rant over.
I want to say thanks to the devs in this section for being patient and helpful in the face of extreme ignorance, and to the users for understanding that not everyone on this site with less than 500 posts is a noob expecting to be spoon fed. I fear some of these communities are becoming to exclusive rather than inclusive. Transformer owners and developers as i have seen are very friendly and patient and I've gotten to like you all..
Even you goodintentions..
Thanks for showing that xda can be an inclusive community!
OK, flame on...
WRONG SECTION - USELESS POST! MODS PLEASE DELETE!!11!!ONE!1211
Ok, joking aside, I'm guessing maybe because tablet owners tend to be older then you're average high schooler we have a maturer crowd here?
I go by, if I can't help, then move on. No need to "flame" someone and get in an online battle...
And are you really going to get rid of your mt4g because of rude/inconsiderate people on the internet?
To join in on the rant.... READ READ READ READ READ..... so when are you supposed to post?
You would think that low post numbers mean more reading and less "got any updates?" or "Ya i agree". I personally only registered because i had a question that i couldn't find the answer to. Having been around forums for a while now (and i mean a long time) i have seen your situation at least once a year and sometimes it can be because the bug just totally pisses them off coz they cant fix it.
Totally agree.... the devs and gurus here are amazing. This truly is the place to be if you wanna hack and slash the device you have.
So thanks to all of you that make our devices so much more than we bought so that we can do whatever the hell we want with them.
Thanks again
I agree with OP. XDA has become a huge flame war where I feel that most people just post in threads to get their post count up. You have very few in here that will flame you for posting in the wrong section or repeating something that has already been posted(8 pages back).
Nature of the beast I guess. Next to head-fi.org this is one of the kindest sections I know.
It isn't my primary phone, and was intending to do that anyway, but the fact that the community is so immature and now hates me, there is no incentive to keep it
Oh well..on to the next device
EDIT: (One more thing I found funny, but no point in starting another thread)
While researching NVFlash and ubuntu/debian on the TF101 I came across this quote;
.. WARNING:: some/all TF101G (the 3G model) are expected to have a
different SBK. Until you know the SBK that corresponds to your
device, you *can not install Debian*.
To acquire an SBK, perform rubber-hose or black-bag cryptanalysis
on the associated ASUS staff. Once successful, please publish the
SBK widely, as (AFAIK) ASUS cannot revoke it from units that have
already rolled out.
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LMFAO, I just read Applied Cryptography by Bruce Schneier..if any of you are unfamiliar with 'rubber hose' and 'black bag' cryptanalysis, google it
I agree so far from what I have seen in this fora. I have only had my tablet for about a week. But in deciding which tablet to buy, I read many, many different device forums to get a feel for just as many things. ROMs, Kernels, un/locked bootloaders, support and even accessories. I did the same thing when I bought a new phone. That is where I remember Baseballfanz from. The NS forums.
The thing with the post count is kind of strange. I have seen several people with below 50 posts, phrase an articulate question with nearly all the neccessary info. Whereas I have seen others with 500, 800, 1k posts with like you said, small blobs about nothing. Those just waste my time and I want to delete them, but I can't.
Similar to your situation, only my experience was the knight in shining armor. There was this person in the Vibrant forums who would just pounce on noobs about searching. I had just come from a Motorola forum that was by far one of the most helpful places I had ever been. That is actually where I learned about, well everything basically. Anyways, back to the Vibrant. I had gotten tired of seeing this person post the same replies all the time and flaming noobs. I thrashed him really hard about it and brought to his attention why they were asking these things (ever been in panic mode with your $500-$700 phone?) and sometimes the search button brings up more info that you need. You can easily lose track of why you were searching in the first place. He actually posted a thread apologizing and stating that he would be more helpful in the future (it has since been deleted).
Best advice I can give to someone is read, read and read but also give all the information that you can when asking the question. YOU may not think it is relevant, but I might.