Database Users

Incredible has leaked 2.2 with everything working w/Sense

Now I know they don't have 4G but everything works with Sense. Can we get this ported?
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App

Is it really nessecary? Ava-FroyoV2 already has Sense and everything but BT and 4G working. I would expect it to be more work to port this than just have Ava fix BT and have basically the same.

Given the similarities between the Evo and Inc, the 2.2 update should be right around the corner. Also remember that Verizon is notorious for long testing before a software update.
Having said that, I'm sure a Dev will figure out a way to port this over.

But we already have CyanogenMod with everything but 4G working.
-------------
Sent from my HTC EVO 4G using Tapatalk Pro.

The advantage of using the Incredible's 2.2 over the current 2.2 Sense that we have is that it will work better with what we have. The other one we have is for the Desire. So, for instance, the camera may work better. If it has a newer kernel we may be able to use that, etc. So, yeah, I'd say it would be worth porting over. Either way, I'm sticking with CM6 as I have missed Cyanogen since my days with the G1.

Well I suppose we'll have to wait again for the new kernel's source code, hopefully it doesn't take as long this time.

There is more issues with that rom then those listed, for example exchange doesn't setup correctly
trogdor182 said:
Is it really nessecary? Ava-FroyoV2 already has Sense and everything but BT and 4G working. I would expect it to be more work to port this than just have Ava fix BT and have basically the same.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Loading.........

I would like to see a port of it. I like the Stock look with the speed under the hood.

Is it an unpopular opinion to actually like SenseUI around here? I vastly prefer Sense over the stock UI, TouchWiz and MotoBlur.

Unfortunately, since CyanogenMod has just about everything working, the only real improvements for the EVO that could be pulled out of the Droid Incredible's code is the FM radio, assuming they're even the same chip(which, without doing some research, I highly doubt).

From what I have seen and played with Sense is pretty nice, but I really like the look/feel of ADW.Launcher and Stock apps myself.
To each their own.
Although an official HTC Release of 2.2 would be interesting to see performance wise.

I like sense as well but I am not married to it, but I don't see why all the hate
Loading.........

Sense has some really good apps like music and email. Don't argue with me about music app. It is by far the smoothest and streamed lined music player for android. Even froyo music is a piece of crap. Google really need to work on the music players for Android. iPhone and.most likely the Zune based Windows Mobile 7 music player are/will be vastly superior.
Sent from my PC36100

Sense isn't bad, but it's not as useful for me. There are maybe one or two widgets that I'd like to have, but with all the other bulkiness it's not worth it. Like the 3 button dock. I'd much rather have the ADW where I can put 4 shortcuts plus the drawer. Once I tried CM6, I don't think I can go back to Sense.
It's all about preference.

The only thing I liked about Sense was the Mail/Exchange app. At least it gave me the option to select and delete multiple items at a time. With the current e-mail app (Froyo) i have to "tick" each e-mail, kinda tedious when you have over a hundren e-mails you want to delete at a time.

I don't plan on flashing a 2.2 rom until I know 4g works. I'd rather be able to use the service I'm paying for.

cosine83 said:
Is it an unpopular opinion to actually like SenseUI around here? I vastly prefer Sense over the stock UI, TouchWiz and MotoBlur.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sense is just a pretty pointless bit of eyecandy that vastly slows down updates received by HTC phones. It is completely tangled up in the OS, and it just slows things down and provides very limited customization due to its closed-source nature. AOSP Android is extremely fast and smooth, and you are free to add all of the eyecandy and additional apps you want.

TheBiles said:
Sense is just a pretty pointless bit of eyecandy that vastly slows down updates received by HTC phones. It is completely tangled up in the OS, and it just slows things down and provides very limited customization due to its closed-source nature. AOSP Android is extremely fast and smooth, and you are free to add all of the eyecandy and additional apps you want.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
While I do agree with you, I really wish there were Marketplace equivalents of some of the HTC widgets (Email, Bookmarks, and NewsReader in particular). Pure Messenger is the closest I've found to the HTC email widget but after spending an inordinate amount of time trying to get it set up the way I like, I gave up. And, don't get me started on my K9/Exchange integration issues.
And, I'm a geek! I can only imagine the frustration the average non-techie, Android owner without a Sense phone goes through.

okolowicz said:
While I do agree with you, I really wish there were Marketplace equivalents of some of the HTC widgets (Email, Bookmarks, and NewsReader in particular). Pure Messenger is the closest I've found to the HTC email widget but after spending an inordinate amount of time trying to get it set up the way I like, I gave up. And, don't get me started on my K9/Exchange integration issues.
And, I'm a geek! I can only imagine the frustration the average non-techie, Android owner without a Sense phone goes through.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well final-damn-ly, somebody without their head stuck up their ass realizes this lol. But really, they did a good job with the widgets and to me are worth more than the hassles i have to put up with. And don't forget copy/paste; stock google's is the most godawful take on copypasta i've ever seen. While I've gotten used to launcher pro plus, returning back to sense would definitely be a welcome home for me.

I agree that Sense, although a resource hog, has the best widgets. Just wish I could use wiimote.
Sent from your moms house

Advantage of Android Over WinMo??

I seriously dont get it, what is the real adavantage of Android??..many say Andorid is waaay better than WinMo6.5without any reason.. i for one still feel android and WinMo6.5are on the same boat .. there are NO distinctive advantages over each other.. i can find many demerits in android(atleast for me), yea there are demerits in WinMo6.5 also but in no way Android outweighs the disadvantages of WinMo6.5.
1. Android's battery management is very poor compared to WinMo6.5.
2. Android's memory management sucks BIG time, poeple say it's intelligent ... it's just kills apps whenever it needs to, basically loads all junk in memory and if it needs memory it kills low priority processes, i dont know how this is considered intelligent, why does it load all the installed apps process in the first place???.. i am even afraid to install a new app..
This is the reason for the battery drain!!!...
3. There is no TRUE multitasking, you play a game while listening to a song, in between you want to change the song, you cant do.. there is a huge possiblity that Android will just kill the game since it needs memory.
4. Theming is too static, you can only cahnge colours or images.. you cant completely change the whole interface as in WinMo6.5... every1 who is been using WinMo for some time would easily understand how great you can change the interfac of your mobile in WinMo6.5.
5. DATA Hag, for everything you have to goto market, goddamn, there are countries where 3g is not even introduced and poeple dont have unlimited plans, for everthing you need mobile internet in android.
6. Feels like it's a locked OS just like IOS and the copy cat winmo 7.
Only advantage of android over WinMo6.5 is android's got some good looking games!!!
Maybe it's just that people wanted a change and they are catching to Android , once they got bored they will come back to WinMo

Nobody is forcing you to use android, so why are you knocking it? If you don't like it, just don't use it.
The main advantage is the active development. We are early in the life of android with version 2.2. Windows mobile 6.5 is likely to be left behind when WM7 arrives. There are also many more developers who contribute to the android market.
How can you describe an open source OS as "locked" and compare it to IOS. Open source is the polar opposite of locked.
You are wrong to say that the theme is too static and can't be changed. There are many options. Sense, ADW, Launcher Pro, and now MIUI.
Most importantly XDA developers, the long time windows mobile devs, have now embraced android.

I just stopped by to say this is lulzy
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App

Simple question: why going back to an os wm abandoned and no longer support? You can talk about battery consumption, I have the same here, (super miui rom) and I still remember very well all the bugs and freezes I had with wm no mater what rom I choose. Remember very well too when I was so happy my phone ran 3 days without reset it. The cruel lack of applications. Ok, you can find by digging a bit an ugly wm app that do the trick, but its better to have the choice. There are so many developers here, future oriented.
Example : I decided to went to android when onenote mobile lost all my pictures inside my travel note ... Enough.
Now with the memoires app, I can take an encrypted note with picture and gps on map, backed up in sd, synchronised with google docs or export it in whatever output file I want. Happy user.
I made a silent backup too when I plug my usb cable, copying my sdcard meaning all my os and apps.
If you don't understand why people love android here you probably missed something ;-)

I wonder why there are still WM 6.5.3 releases everyday.. maybe microsoft stopped supporting and these builds are just coming out of nowhere .. possible??
if the developers stopped supporting i wonder how CHT 2.0 beta came out... CHT 2,0 pawns everything.. it's so awesome.. can you imagine anything of that sort to come out for android,...
Regarding theming
What is launcher pro offereing same old page scrolling and more widgets that is all... there is no drastic change..
In WinMo i had iphone ui(page scrolling), Sense ui, Windows xp style, windows 98 style, windows 7 style.. there is this wonderful app Wisbar.. with that you could possibly get any type of UI... you cant possibly do anything like that in android
THAT IS WHY I CALL IT LOCKED, you cant possibly edit anything like you have done in WinMo
Another disadvantage i saw was, i cannot share my PC's internet connection with my phone.. there is no way to do this.. WTH man.. in WinMo it's easy as a piece of cake..
Nobody is forcing you to use android, so why are you knocking it? If you don't like it, just don't use it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Please this is not a Android hatred or WinMo fan boyism thread... i am still trying out every new release of android and i will still continue to do the same.. all i wanted to discuss was it's Advantage over WinMo .. maybe i dont know stuffs , i wanted to learn more about android ...
I just stopped by to say this is lulzy
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i dont want any android fan service here, if you have some stuff in your head speak it or go take a hike
Some noobs just dont understand anything, just for the sake of every1 using they will use and say Android rocks, this, that... tell us what you feel as an advantage

Both have their advantages and disadvantages... I like them both equally now. I used to say winmo was better, and in some ways it is. It's actually far more customizable and versatile when you know what you're doing, and just as stable. I bought the hd2 for winmo, and plan on keeping it on the phone because this will be the last great winmo phone.
But android is being actively developed, and is catching up in versatility quickly. Since froyo was released and the hd2 got such a functional port, I've given Android another chance and have really began to like it... its smoother and easier to setup than winmo, and its functionality & versatility are catching up to winmo in many ways.
They are just different. Android is definitely easier for the average user, and is continuously updated and has a lot of developers supporting it with a variety of apps. Winmo is still more customizable and versatile, but it isn't easy for the average user. It was designed as a pocket pc OS originally, and has had phone functionality added. Android was designed as a phone OS to begin with, but it doesn't have the desktop-like functionality that winmo does. They are very differently designed mobile OS's.
At this point, I now love them both equally, but in different ways. I love my winmo setup and the fact I can make it look and act exactly how I want... it takes some experience and work to get it as functional and stable as I like it, and it does everything I want it to do. Android is fun and easy to setup... it looks great and modern, and has a lot of fun apps. I'm pretty sure I can accomplish everything that I can with winmo if I really tried, and vice-versa, but I still prefer the way winmo & its apps are setup for a lot of things, though. But I'm liking the way android works and is set-up for other things. Web browsing is much more enjoyable on android, and there are more games and will continue to be more made.
Anyways, the great thing about the HD2 is that I can have both! And both run very well. I will never turn my dual-OS powerphone into just another android phone by flashing android over winmo... it doesn't seem worth it as android will run pretty much as good off a SD card as from nand... it all loads into RAM anyways and runs from there. Plus I still love winmo as much as I always have, and I got this phone because it is and will always be the best winmo device. It's a shame that it won't be developed any further.
I hope that when magldr is released, it will allow me to have both winmo and android on nand, as I have the tmous hd2 with 1gb nand, so there's enough space. That will allow me to access to my SD card without needing to leave it in for android.
Sorry for such a long post, but I had a lot to say on this subject. I'm tired of hearing fans of one OS bashing the other OS. I hear it most often from android users on this forum. It seems once android was functional on the hd2, many more immature posts have flooded these forums... saying winmo sucks, etc. They are both great mobile OS's, and are just different. It's great we now have a choice, but there's no reason to bash either OS just because you don't like it, or understand how to use it. Sorry for the rant. It's late & I'm very tired.
Edit: my rant isn't focused at anybody in this thread. Also, I agree with the op on most of his views. All of android launchers/shells are very similar and is not nearly as skinnable and customizable as winmo. But I do love the widgets android has, too. It's very easy to setup nice looking homescreens... winmo usually takes more time and work to setup the way you want, but there is a ton more options.
And CHT 2.0 looks awesome... haven't had a chance to play with it yet, but it looks like it takes sense to a whole new level. Takes the best parts of android sense and winmo sense, and makes the most customizable version of sense yet!
Sent from my HTC HD2 using XDA App

I've installed Android on my HD2 and are using it for main, daily use OS. The reason for this is the net browsing experience. Click a flash movie and it plays. Click it again and it plays full screen. Also the overall slickness of Sense on android + swype + spotify + native gps navigation is reasons for not going back.

I like both, as you get some great applications in both.
Although Windows never looks and feels as slick as Android.
Take some like for like applications, Facebook app on WM is terrible compared to the fantastic Android version. Radiotime player knocks any radio player on WM.
the cloud sync of google is so easy and works well.
But saying that I find the Memory map navigator a must on WM, some great bird and wildlife apps, prefer the camera on WM HD2 and think Sense UI on the HD2 is a lot better than sense on Android, although saying that I like the friendsstream....
See we are so lucky to have both...

yea good one dude.. i feel the same way.. people just blindly say WinMo sucks.. that is my argument.. they are in equal footing.. no way Android is better than WinMo...
Real thing is, An OS such as WinMo which came into existense some 6 or 7 years back can still hold it's uniquness and has almost all the features as that of an newly released os Android!!! ... what does android offer being it a brand new OS.. i dont get it... i can do anything android do in winmo itself... i was hoping Android to be far superior OS ... but after using it i dont feel like it AT ALL....

Well the biggest drawback of winmo , is its colors! They have never released a proper 16million color screen , common, its the 22nd century .. Lol .
A phone like the calibre of HD2 could hv had amoled plus 16 million colors , and it would have rocked both worlds, WinMO and Android!
But android , simply truly is more Open Source and more developer community oriented, than winMo .
Android , is being backed by The biggest player of the market , Google , which allows full integration with google services , winMo can never hve this no mattr what one does .
Google Maps simply rocks on android !
Sent from my HTC LeeDroid 2.2 using my swyping thumb!

@ zarathustrax Great job typing all that from your phone mate
As for this discussion both operating systems have their advantages and disadvantages I guess its just a matter of what you want to do with the phone and how you live your life day to day.
Android offers ALOTT more social network integration as you can sync your facebook twitter and google contacts into 1 account and manage them all from 1 place. See peoples latest updates or activities without having to go from 1 program to the other. This was my personal reason for changing from WinMo as well as the widget based screens. Yes I know CHT has done a fantastic job and has a few widgets now but it cant integrate with the whole operating system, and to access the rest of sense you still need to pop up the standard sense bar. Android 3 will be bringing alot of nice new features including multitasking and better memory management.
Now I still love using WinMo. I went off HTC Sense a long time ago after the 'prettyness' apeal faded but I have always been a user of Spb Mobile Shell and have made alot of improvments and alot of themes for it and will keep developing for it on WinMo as long as its around. Unfortunately with WindowsPhone7 they arent allowing Today plugins so Spb Mobile Shell wont be availble on that platform. I dont commend Windows for that decision but I guess they are taking a leaf out of apples book and it works for apple.
To answer the OP's question (if I havent already), WinMo and Android both have very different feels and both are loved and hated by alot of people. If you want perfect social network integration with the whole OS (you just cant do that in WinMo), more widgets and apps and ALOT better games (especially ones that use the gsensor) then go for Android. If you prefer a Windows based platform where you can play around with the registry, have more business based apps and dont really play many games then go with WindowsMobile. If you want the best of both then have both
The only thing I dont like about Android is that I cant use TomTom and I always thought that is the best satnav app available. Ohh well I still have copilot on Android lol..
Mark.

If Windows mobile had the Android marketplace, there would be no need for Android.
The HD2 in WM can easily handle some of the fantastic Android Apps, microsoft should be hung drawn and quartered for not implementing a better marketplace, they have had the opportunity, why not keep the WM6.5 and develop the market apps..apps.....did I say it...Applications, Applications, Applications, that's where development should be

I got an Evo cuz I'm on Sprint. I had a Diamond, (and still do), and loved it and was reluctant to stop using it, because I really came to love winmo. Android can't do anything with a .rar file, for example. (I thought it couldn't even create zips, but I was wrong).
Mostly what moved me though was the hardware. My diamond didn't come close to an Evo hardware-wise, and I was excited about the big screen.
I honestly would have preferred to get an HD2 than an Evo, but it just was not feasible for me to switch to t-mobile. I really did think about it and investigated it.
A lot of great devs on xda have picked up android though, and that has been great.
I will say, all the different UIs for android are essentially the same (as said before); swipe left/right, app drawer at bottom, etc. Winmo was/is far more customizable.
Winmo is still near and dear to me. I have gotten comfortable with android, though.
All that said, I was not able to get a winmo with the badass hardware (HD2), and since Microsoft is moving on to win phone 7 , which I want NO part of, and there will be no other winmo 6.5x phones coming available with current hardware, I went android/Evo, and had to just think of it as a big middle finger to Microsoft for their win phone 7 BS.
I'm pretty happy now thought with Android, but really poor .wma support, hard to accept.
Edit:
Oh and uploads are not supported from android browser. That kills me! Sure, you can install Opera on android, then upload via Opera browser, but Opera browser sucks on android (on winmo, it was perfect, all I used). Now in froyo, it half-ass supports uploads, but only kinda. Winmo has had upload for god-knows-how-long ?! Amazing to me Google can't fix this properly.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App

I ended up typing longer than I expected...
depakjan said:
I seriously dont get it, what is the real adavantage of Android??..many say Andorid is waaay better than WinMo6.5without any reason.. i for one still feel android and WinMo6.5are on the same boat .. there are NO distinctive advantages over each other.. i can find many demerits in android(atleast for me), yea there are demerits in WinMo6.5 also but in no way Android outweighs the disadvantages of WinMo6.5.
1. Android's battery management is very poor compared to WinMo6.5.
2. Android's memory management sucks BIG time, poeple say it's intelligent ... it's just kills apps whenever it needs to, basically loads all junk in memory and if it needs memory it kills low priority processes, i dont know how this is considered intelligent, why does it load all the installed apps process in the first place???.. i am even afraid to install a new app..
This is the reason for the battery drain!!!...
3. There is no TRUE multitasking, you play a game while listening to a song, in between you want to change the song, you cant do.. there is a huge possiblity that Android will just kill the game since it needs memory.
4. Theming is too static, you can only cahnge colours or images.. you cant completely change the whole interface as in WinMo6.5... every1 who is been using WinMo for some time would easily understand how great you can change the interfac of your mobile in WinMo6.5.
5. DATA Hag, for everything you have to goto market, goddamn, there are countries where 3g is not even introduced and poeple dont have unlimited plans, for everthing you need mobile internet in android.
6. Feels like it's a locked OS just like IOS and the copy cat winmo 7.
Only advantage of android over WinMo6.5 is android's got some good looking games!!!
Maybe it's just that people wanted a change and they are catching to Android , once they got bored they will come back to WinMo
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I get the point you are trying to make. But before you make statements like poor mem managements and batt issues, we all need to realize that all android running on our HD2 is PORTED...and its bound to have few issues till its all ironed out. about multitasking/mem management, read here (http://android-developers.blogspot.com/2010/04/multitasking-android-way.html) before saying android is poor in mem management. Engineers at Google would have given it a fair amount of thought... I tried using multiple apps at the same time and switching in between them without a problem. Recent builds of android lasts the whole day for me without recharging, so i dont see any BIG downside there.
No doubt WM IS still great, but the approach was completely different in almost every way. To me, its like comparing apple to oranges ; because of how it is designed to function.
When i tried android the 1st time, i didnt like it at all. But recent releases have grown on me and i like them very much even for daily use. I guess the people like me would lose out some customization/personalization PURELY because i have ZERO knowledge when it comes to linux (I used to build my own WM6.5 roms...i cant do that with android). Im sure things can be customized (i.e: cyanogenMod, revolution theme, etc), its just that I (and most of the people cling very hard to WM) dont know how. Also, about your point 5: you do realize you can install the apk (apps) in android offline right? HTC with sense is also same as it requires lots of data??
We have to be fair in assessing both OS here....
I am a fan of both OS.
Just think about this - Why are we so quick to dismiss something and label it as bad when the memory usage is high?? (Ie: when a app / ROM uses a lot of ram, we say its bad in management) I don't mind fully utilizing (the ram is in HD2 to be used...why not fully use it?) all available ram it it gives a better user experience with negligible increase in batt drain.
I think we/most of us are conditioned our mind to the way of WM memory management. We should be more open to new approaches and give it time to develop further!
Well...when i started typing...i didnt mean to type this long.... look how long i end up typing...this is what i think

THUDUK said:
See we are so lucky to have both...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is the best argument for Android on HD2 - it runs well enough from the SD card and you still have the WinMo option... Now we have the best hardware and two great operating systems - one very mature, stable etc and a new exciting one!
Personally I now only really use WinMo for SatNav (TomTom) because I'm used to using it and the maps are very accurate
Google nav maps are surpisingly out of date. Damn thing tried to send me down a road that I know has been closed off for 5+ years!! And don't even try to drive around Brixton with Google you will be arrested for dangerous driving hehe

Here's the problem I had with winmo, one which ultimately drove me away.
Microsoft has always lacked a certain finese in their OS's that other developers dont. After you dig through the HTC sense overlay on the HD2 and start finding areas of the system that they never tweaked, you start to see the real windows coming out of its shell, and it's ugly. Old fonts, very non-finger friendly, looks more like it was meant for a stylus. Menu driven systems that work well for someone with a computer and mouse, but not at all for a touch screen device.
The way I saw it, microsoft is simply not good in the UI department. They seriously need to hire more talented people who design the look and feel of their operating systems. The whole thing just feels amatuerish. I could design a better UI. The very fact that theirs is so sloppy says that Microsoft doesnt really know what they're doing. I already feel the same way about Winmo7 btw. Once again microsoft just shows they dont have enough creativity in their bones to whip up a functionally useful and unique OS. They sure tried, but they missed the mark.
Google and apple on the other hand know exactly what they're doing. While the core OS functions and how it controls the phone might all be similar, they understand people, what people like, how people think, and what feels good on a phone. Their menu hierarchy, finger friendly options, and features offered all make sense to me. They give me and present to me what I want how I want it. You can just tell by using it that they really "get it".
Winmo just feels like some forgotten OS that was developed around the first handhelds about 10 years ago, one in which microsoft never really understood how to advance in today's mobile market. It's like they're a lost puppy, trying to figure out why the big dogs get all the meat. It's really not that hard microsoft, they're just better than you at this stuff. I mean the entire reasons the HD2 was shipped with a sense theme is because the winmo theme is so ungodly and ugly that they simply had to basically remake the whole thing to get anyone to touch it.

its not crash so often on heavy useage

RunNgun42 said:
Here's the problem I had with winmo, one which ultimately drove me away.
Microsoft has always lacked a certain finese in their OS's that other developers dont. After you dig through the HTC sense overlay on the HD2 and start finding areas of the system that they never tweaked, you start to see the real windows coming out of its shell, and it's ugly. Old fonts, very non-finger friendly, looks more like it was meant for a stylus. Menu driven systems that work well for someone with a computer and mouse, but not at all for a touch screen device.
The way I saw it, microsoft is simply not good in the UI department. They seriously need to hire more talented people who design the look and feel of their operating systems. The whole thing just feels amatuerish. I could design a better UI. The very fact that theirs is so sloppy says that Microsoft doesnt really know what they're doing. I already feel the same way about Winmo7 btw. Once again microsoft just shows they dont have enough creativity in their bones to whip up a functionally useful and unique OS. They sure tried, but they missed the mark.
Google and apple on the other hand know exactly what they're doing. While the core OS functions and how it controls the phone might all be similar, they understand people, what people like, how people think, and what feels good on a phone. Their menu hierarchy, finger friendly options, and features offered all make sense to me. They give me and present to me what I want how I want it. You can just tell by using it that they really "get it".
Winmo just feels like some forgotten OS that was developed around the first handhelds about 10 years ago, one in which microsoft never really understood how to advance in today's mobile market. It's like they're a lost puppy, trying to figure out why the big dogs get all the meat. It's really not that hard microsoft, they're just better than you at this stuff. I mean the entire reasons the HD2 was shipped with a sense theme is because the winmo theme is so ungodly and ugly that they simply had to basically remake the whole thing to get anyone to touch it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Totally agree with you!!!!! I have used WM for years, Apple OS for over 1 year and now Android for 1 month. I rate Android #1, Apple #2 and WM #3. I cannot believe the UI that Android and Apple have compare to the lack of UI form WM. This includes Apps, Display, Stores, etc.
Will keep WM on my HD2 but using Android all the time now.

mskip said:
@ zarathustrax Great job typing all that from your phone mate
As for this discussion both operating systems have their advantages and disadvantages I guess its just a matter of what you want to do with the phone and how you live your life day to day.
Android offers ALOTT more social network integration as you can sync your facebook twitter and google contacts into 1 account and manage them all from 1 place. See peoples latest updates or activities without having to go from 1 program to the other. This was my personal reason for changing from WinMo as well as the widget based screens. Yes I know CHT has done a fantastic job and has a few widgets now but it cant integrate with the whole operating system, and to access the rest of sense you still need to pop up the standard sense bar. Android 3 will be bringing alot of nice new features including multitasking and better memory management.
Now I still love using WinMo. I went off HTC Sense a long time ago after the 'prettyness' apeal faded but I have always been a user of Spb Mobile Shell and have made alot of improvments and alot of themes for it and will keep developing for it on WinMo as long as its around. Unfortunately with WindowsPhone7 they arent allowing Today plugins so Spb Mobile Shell wont be availble on that platform. I dont commend Windows for that decision but I guess they are taking a leaf out of apples book and it works for apple.
To answer the OP's question (if I havent already), WinMo and Android both have very different feels and both are loved and hated by alot of people. If you want perfect social network integration with the whole OS (you just cant do that in WinMo), more widgets and apps and ALOT better games (especially ones that use the gsensor) then go for Android. If you prefer a Windows based platform where you can play around with the registry, have more business based apps and dont really play many games then go with WindowsMobile. If you want the best of both then have both
The only thing I dont like about Android is that I cant use TomTom and I always thought that is the best satnav app available. Ohh well I still have copilot on Android lol..
Mark.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well said... I like both... The HD2 allows you to have both on your phone... No other phone allows that intergration... Hopefully when WP7 arrives we can have all three on the HD2??? I use both Android and WM on a daily basis... I've been using Android more to learn about... I like the ability to play with Android before I leap on it (need to see if I like Android first)... I can say that alot of development is moving to Android... Who knows down the road I may buy Android??? But for now I will stick to my HD2 (no phones released or will be released make me say WOW I must have it)..... Also Spb Shell 5 is taking to long to be released...... I like CHT v2 (gives you that Spb Shell ability)......

Tech Savy said:
Well said... I like both... The HD2 allows you to have both on your phone... No other phone allows that intergration... Hopefully when WP7 arrives we can have all three on the HD2??? I use both Android and WM on a daily basis... I've been using Android more to learn about... I like the ability to play with Android before I leap on it (need to see if I like Android first)... I can say that alot of development is moving to Android... Who knows down the road I may buy Android??? But for now I will stick to my HD2 (no phones released or will be released make me say WOW I must have it)..... Also Spb Shell 5 is taking to long to be released...... I like CHT v2 (gives you that Spb Shell ability)......
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I really have no idea whats going on with Spb Mobile Shell 5.. they initially announced that it would be released in Q3 2010 which has gone now so their timeline is running behind. They are always terrible about announcing updates and new versions so im expecting to wake up one morning and its sitting there waiting lol.
Cant wait to rip it apart and build it back up once it is out though, and the same if/when they release Shell for Android I will definitely be giving that a good going over and giving it the ProPlus treatment
Mark.

How would you make android better?

I would like to see improvements to the stock browser. smoother zooming for one thing, get rid of the magnify glass in the bottom right corner (gets in the way when trying to click links), and passing the acid 3 test .
What changes would you like to see?

If it could make waffles, preferably Belgian style, and be more like iOS.

bacon flavoring

Android is still in its infancy compared to its rivals in the same market. This year should be big for our beloved OS so I want to see what changes are made before answering that question lol.
Web browser fixes is on the list though
Sexy Vibrant featuring Nero V3 w/Voodoo, and FFC installed

masterotaku said:
bacon flavoring
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
PLEASE! Lol
Sexy Vibrant featuring Nero V3 w/Voodoo, and FFC installed

- decent calendar
- syncing with Outlook
- email that is reliable
- more efficient OS

More fluid UI, smoother animations ie: pinch to zoom browsing, maps etc could be smoother. Basically make it so good that I don't need to root in the first place.

A usable Google Talk Client (think BBM). The current one is worse than using SMS/MMS, IMO.
Hardware accellerated UI.
Better Exchange support and stock (non-Gmail) mail/Calendar client.
Make an exit option for most stock apps (i.e. Browser, music player, etc.).
Memory optimizations to reduce the footprint of stock applications in RAM.
Better third party developers. Most of them are amatuers and put out utter crap.
Decent market policing. Tired of sifting through so much junk just to try to find useful apps.
The rest doesn't matter since I'm sure the OEMs will rip it out to put their skins in.

N8ter said:
Make an exit option for most stock apps (i.e. Browser, music player, etc.).
Memory optimizations to reduce the footprint of stock applications in RAM.
Better third party developers. Most of them are amatuers and put out utter crap.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
An exit option is the thing google DOES NOT want in their UI. It is pointless. It is NOT how Android runs and it does NOT help. The OS does this for the user. Why not just ask for a task killer that kills everything every 5 minutes, lol.
what stock apps are killing ram? Do you mean when they are in the BACKground?
dude, don't knock on developers... I think if the "fragmentation problem" was not a "problem" then we would have a tremendous load of great apps. Some are just afraid to take the plunge into developing for android, and some probably are afraid to break ties with apple. That said, there are a LOT of really good developers for Android, and some ONLY for android (levelup studios)
to answer the OP question, I would say a more common sense UI. Which I believe is on the way with the new hires. I had to teach several people how to use their new apple/android products, and regretfully, the ones with apple picked it up a lot faster.

s15274n said:
An exit option is the thing google DOES NOT want in their UI. It is pointless. It is NOT how Android runs and it does NOT help. The OS does this for the user. Why not just ask for a task killer that kills everything every 5 minutes, lol.
what stock apps are killing ram? Do you mean when they are in the BACKground?
dude, don't knock on developers... I think if the "fragmentation problem" was not a "problem" then we would have a tremendous load of great apps. Some are just afraid to take the plunge into developing for android, and some probably are afraid to break ties with apple. That said, there are a LOT of really good developers for Android, and some ONLY for android (levelup studios)
to answer the OP question, I would say a more common sense UI. Which I believe is on the way with the new hires. I had to teach several people how to use their new apple/android products, and regretfully, the ones with apple picked it up a lot faster.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Some people just fail to understand that memory management on the linux based OS's is completely different from the counterparts from different OS's.
What would I change about the OS? My needs are more than satisfied with the current affairs, smoother scrolling and zooming in the browser will def make the UI even more pleasant to use.
EDIT: Oh yeah, and make every currently releasing phones true google phones, allow the carrier put bloatware on it, but make it easy to remove it - that is wishful thinking btw, otherwise how the carriers are supposed to make money off the subsidized hardware; at least make it an option for off the contract purchases.

I would like if the notification bar pop-up ("toast"?) for a new Gmail displayed the sender/subject line and first few words of the msg, rather than just say "New Gmail" (in other words, for it to behave like the notification for new SMS, etc.)

I really think that the 3rd party UIs should be available as a paid market download only. That way you have a choice as to whether you want to use it or not. All Google Android phones should come as just a Google Android phone. Make it easier to receive updates and cut down on this fragmentation. You can even let the user decide to download the enhanced UIs during the initial setup.

I'd personally like to see more polish - smoother web scrolling, etc. - and codec support for stock Android. I think we'll see this in Honeycomb. For game makers, i'd like to see less device specific coding in C. We are lucky that virtually every game works on the Vibrant, but other high end phones don't get the same love. Finally, it would be nice to see Google get on oems to release updates in a timely manner. Don't think it'll happen but you can always dream.
Sent from my frozen yogurt powered Vibrant

atoz350 said:
I really think that the 3rd party UIs should be available as a paid market download only. That was the you have a choice as to whether you want to use it or not. All Google Android phones should come as just a Google Android phone. Make it easier to receive updates and cut down on this fragmentation. You can even let the user decide to download the enhanced UIs during the initial setup.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I like the idea. Also, if companies want "value added" widgets, launchers, etc. they could make them drm protected and not able to be installed on competitors phones without having to bog down their devices with a crappy UI
Sent from my frozen yogurt powered Vibrant

Switched from iPhone 3GS to Atrix....

......and people are right, Moto Blur is a cluster****.
I am not too tech savvy, but not a dummy either.
Suggestions and tips on rooting would be great.
Meanwhile, I will keep digging around this site, I am sure the answers are somewhere here, but there is so much info......

Try "gladroot"
JRSOne said:
......and people are right, Moto Blur is a cluster****.
I am not too tech savvy, but not a dummy either.
Suggestions and tips on rooting would be great.
Meanwhile, I will keep digging around this site, I am sure the answers are somewhere here, but there is so much info......
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I just rooted my atrix last night with "gladroot". http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=12540398
Before you root, install Motorola driver first. Nobody didn't mention about it until later and it took me for a while to troubleshoot. As long as you read and follow the instructions, it's not difficult.
http://briefmobile.com/motorola-atrix-4g-root

JRSOne said:
I am not too tech savvy, but not a dummy either.
Suggestions and tips on rooting would be great.
Meanwhile, I will keep digging around this site, I am sure the answers are somewhere here, but there is so much info......
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Don't have to dig far!
Rooting for dummies is on the 1st floor! LOL

Thanks a lot, very nice.

3GS -> Atrix
JRSOne said:
......and people are right, Moto Blur is a cluster****.
I am not too tech savvy, but not a dummy either.
Suggestions and tips on rooting would be great.
Meanwhile, I will keep digging around this site, I am sure the answers are somewhere here, but there is so much info......
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I just made the same switch last week (3GS -> Atrix). Agree that MotoBlur sux and it's also been painful syncing contacts and calendar from my work's Outlook (going through Google isn't an option)
One reason I made the switch was for the less restrictive Android OS. However if you're on version 1.57, it looks like you have to take a few steps backwards to get ahead (http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=12540398). Looks like I'll have to set aside some time to play...

JRSOne said:
......and people are right, Moto Blur is a cluster****.
I am not too tech savvy, but not a dummy either.
Suggestions and tips on rooting would be great.
Meanwhile, I will keep digging around this site, I am sure the answers are somewhere here, but there is so much info......
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Get adw launcher and use titanium backup to freeze blur. Fixes that problem right up. On the other hand, try running gingerblur which has a clean UI and runs quite smooth. It also removes a ton of other bloatware on the phone. Everything except adw launcher requires root of course.
Sent from my MB860 using Tapatalk

I don't understand why ppl say "blur sucks"....I like BLUR, it's very useful with all that widgets to have all your Social Networks quickly in one hand.

emandt said:
I don't understand why ppl say "blur sucks"....I like BLUR, it's very useful with all that widgets to have all your Social Networks quickly in one hand.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Blur USED to suck, past tense. It doesn't suck too badly anymore. And I can't see why a new user would say it sucks when they have no experience. This is just a blind statement.
I'm very picky with my launchers and if I could tweak Blur to look better and purge a few things I don't use, it actually wouldn't be very bad at all. But I like that with the other launchers I can personally tweak them precisely to my preference.

bongd said:
Blur USED to suck, past tense. It doesn't suck too badly anymore. And I can't see why a new user would say it sucks when they have no experience. This is just a blind statement.
I'm very picky with my launchers and if I could tweak Blur to look better and purge a few things I don't use, it actually wouldn't be very bad at all. But I like that with the other launchers I can personally tweak them precisely to my preference.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
BLUR sucks.
Exchange 2003 notifications are broken.
Unified Inbox doesn't include GMail. (that's a hurr durr right there)
Duplicate functionality of what already exists (Social Networking, Accounts, Corporate Sync)
I don't mind the homescreen/launcher.

My biggest complaint with blur is simply the lag when switching home screens and bringing up the full list of apps. And that you can't change anything on the dock. And the widgets are ugly. Oh wait...that's pretty much everything that blur does I hate...
Sent from my MB860 using Tapatalk

I am saying it sucks because I am comparing it to my iphone. I can't express how much cleaner, simplier and user friendly the 3GS is compared to blur.
I certainly hope that other Android phones are not this bad.
If I can't find a better OS that works for me, I will simply get an iphone 4. I guess I was spoiled.

JRSOne said:
I am saying it sucks because I am comparing it to my iphone. I can't express how much cleaner, simplier and user friendly the 3GS is compared to blur.
I certainly hope that other Android phones are not this bad.
If I can't find a better OS that works for me, I will simply get an iphone 4. I guess I was spoiled.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You mean the interface that is the exact same for everyone? The iPhone was made to be simpler. It's so everyone can use it. If you like being coddled by Apple, return the Atrix and get your i4.
It's up to you. WebOS is rising, WP7, BBOS (not as popular). Your pick, dude. Like I said, the iOS devices are made so that even a monkey could pick one up and work it like a pro.
If you're not going to take the time to tweak your device to your liking, go with iOS.

JRSOne said:
I am saying it sucks because I am comparing it to my iphone. I can't express how much cleaner, simplier and user friendly the 3GS is compared to blur.
I certainly hope that other Android phones are not this bad.
If I can't find a better OS that works for me, I will simply get an iphone 4. I guess I was spoiled.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yep. The other androids are not that bad. The original froyo has a cleaner and faster approach than motoblur. Motoblur by far is the worst UI-skin you can possibly have.

peacekeeper05 said:
Yep. The other androids are not that bad. The original froyo has a cleaner and faster approach than motoblur. Motoblur by far is the worst UI-skin you can possibly have.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Have you ever tried TouchWiz? the iPhone wanna-be? Sense is decent, but Blur is one of the closest manufacture's skins to Vanilla Android.
Also, your opinion on Blur is your own. Many people love and use Blur, and many people do not. Just because you say it's the worst, does not make it so.
I advise you to try out all the other different interfaces, and tell me Blur is the complete and total worst you have ever tried.

What about the newer blur on the droid x?
Sent from my MB860 using XDA App

PixoNova said:
Have you ever tried TouchWiz? the iPhone wanna-be? Sense is decent, but Blur is one of the closest manufacture's skins to Vanilla Android.
Also, your opinion on Blur is your own. Many people love and use Blur, and many people do not. Just because you say it's the worst, does not make it so.
I advise you to try out all the other different interfaces, and tell me Blur is the complete and total worst you have ever tried.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Lol. It was obviously an opinion. I did not in any way said im representing the whole android community duh.
I have tried touchwiz, sense and the LG UI already. And of course i've also tried the original android stock UI.

I kinda want to know what people doesn't like on motoblur. The panels? You can empty all of them and end up with 7 panels on witch you can put whatever icons, shorcuts, widgets (and so on) you like. I'm coming from sense but I can customize the motoblur to look just as good. Don't feel like using launcher pro and already uninstalled regina 3D and adw. I woulg probably give a spb a try if they would have a trial.
Sent from my MB860 using XDA App

JRSOne said:
I am saying it sucks because I am comparing it to my iphone. I can't express how much cleaner, simplier and user friendly the 3GS is compared to blur.
I certainly hope that other Android phones are not this bad.
If I can't find a better OS that works for me, I will simply get an iphone 4. I guess I was spoiled.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm also coming from an iPhone, and here are some things I think are superior on the Atrix (and Android) to the iPhone (and iOS):
1. Non-intrusive notifications! I hated how on the iPhone, notifications pop up as dialogs that have to be closed. Sometimes you're doing something important, and you get a text message which pops up right in the middle of the screen. Irritating! I like how you can slide down the top bar when you want and it shows you your notifications.
2. Notification LED. It's great to be able to tell that you have messages or a missed call without having to turn on the screen.
3. Four hardware buttons instead of just one. After you've used the phone awhile, you'll realize how useful a back button and a menu button can be. You have to switch back to home less than you do with an iPhone. Also, hold down your home button and shortcuts to your last 8 used apps will appear.
4. Every application must advertise what features of your phone it has access to in the Manage Applications settings pages. So if an app can read and write to your contact data, it says so in the settings. On the iPhone, you have to rely on Apple to make sure all apps are doing what they're supposed to. Worse, if you get apps from Cydia, well then you're completely on your own.
5. You have 15 minutes to get a refund if you buy something from the Android Market. That's a pretty short time if you have to download a big application, but better that than no refunds at all.
6. Having the option to use an external micro-SD card is pretty nice.
7. Unlike the iPhone, the home screen and the app drawer are two separate things. It's nice to have widgets to customize your home screens.
8. For obvious reasons, Android versions of Google applications tend to have more features on Android than on the iPhone. For example, Maps has that cool 3D compass view, instead of the regular "up is North" top-down view. It also has a Street View add-on which is pretty neat and works quite well.
9. GPS seems faster and more precise on my Atrix than on my iPhone (and my friend's iPhone 4). I've heard others say the opposite with respect to the iPhone 4, so maybe it depends on where in the world you are.
10. For Bell users (ATT users have to pay I think?), Mobile wifi hotspot works great. I've tried tethering my Macbook Pro to the phone via wifi, and it works really well.
11. There's a basic data counter built in, which shows you how much data you're using, and by which apps.
12. There's a pretty decent Battery Manager built in, which shows very clearly what percentage of your used battery was used by each phone function, or application.
13. It comes with Swype as an alternate input system to the virtual keyboard, but you're free to install other 3rd party input methods if you like (there are quite a few).
Well, I don't know if I missed anything, but for the most part, these are the things that impressed me the most after using the Atrix for a couple weeks. I'm very happy I moved to the Atrix, but that's not to say that I hate the iPhone. I still like it, it has a very polished feel and the best screen in the business. And after all, it was the breakthrough smart phone when it first came out. There are just a few things that I think they really need to improve (notifications!).

slimslim said:
I kinda want to know what people doesn't like on motoblur.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I liked some of the features of Motoblur, like having the Manage Applications settings right in the menu of your homescreens. Very useful. Some of the widgets are nice too. My major complaint is that Motoblur is so choppy when scrolling around! That's unacceptable for a high-end phone, in my opinion.

PixoNova said:
the iOS devices are made so that even a monkey could pick one up and work it like a pro.
If you're not going to take the time to tweak your device to your liking, go with iOS.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1 this is the reason why people think that iphone its a ladies phone. its easy to use, no customizable and very locked device, like you say XD even a monkey can work on it like a pro

ICS - am I missing something?

I've patiently been waiting and flashing the alpha/beta ICS ROMs onto my phone as and when they come (thanks devs!).
What I am wondering is, why am I distinctly unimpressed with ICS?
Sure it looks pretty, but when you get down to the nuts and bolts of it, it seems to be form over function. The launcher now takes several swipes to access an app which I could previously have got to in one flick. The task switcher which used to be just long-press on home button then bam, touch your desired app, is now a case of long-press then swiping through a long list of pretty windows to find the one you need. Don't get me wrong, the changes to the built-in apps are good (and necessary - having to press menu to get to the draft new email button was ridiculously bad UI) - but I'm just left unimpressed overall.
And still we have the poor choppy scrolling performance that iOS and WP users laugh at instead of the ultra-smooth buttery goodness they enjoy (although it is better than it used to be I admit).
I know the ICS ROMs are a work in progress still, and I've not spent any time using a Galaxy Nexus - perhaps it all makes sense on a superphone with dual-cores and a massive screen, and these are non-issues for those people. But I am in no position to get a new phone (need a hardware keyboard and there aren't any better ones around) and hence I don't see much compelling reason to get ICS over GB - except for the apps maybe.
Am I the only person feeling this way?

Take into consideration these are ALPHA and BETA stages..cameras still don't even work. Just be patient
Sent from my HTC Vision using xda premium

Hm, I'd have to agree with you about the Task Switcher. There is little to no functionality to it. May I add widget grouping in the Drawer would also be a great addition. Otherwise, I liked most of the changes.
Although, I have two questions. What ICS ROM did/are you test(ing)? And did you try Overclocking? I'm currently running Virtuous Quattro (Beta 8) and have an overclock of up to 1,6GHz, and I can tell everything is running smooth as silk. Of course you don't have to OC to upto 1,6, but 1,2-1,3 would definitely suffice.
Edit: As spastic909 said, there will be a LOT of changes in the upcoming updates, this is only a preview of what we're soon going to get.

As a test I just overclocked to 1.8GHz on performance governor, and rebooted to ensure minimal running processes. This is on a fresh install of Andromadus Alpha v8, no apps installed except GAPPS - scrolling is still really choppy when going through lists, such as my GMail inbox and my contacts list. This is just a fact of life on Android, it doesn't matter what ROM you have, and I've been through a lot in the 14mths that I've had this phone
If iOS and WP can scroll smoothly EVERYWHERE on hardware much older/worse than my phone then there is something seriously wrong with Android at a deep functional level. I think Google needs to sort that out now they've "prettyfied" Android. Lipstick on a pig springs to mind. I love Android, and as it stands I would never consider iOS or WP. But I am jealous of the performance they get.

setspeed said:
As a test I just overclocked to 1.8GHz on performance governor, and rebooted to ensure minimal running processes. This is on a fresh install of Andromadus Alpha v8, no apps installed except GAPPS - scrolling is still really choppy when going through lists, such as my GMail inbox and my contacts list. This is just a fact of life on Android, it doesn't matter what ROM you have, and I've been through a lot in the 14mths that I've had this phone
If iOS and WP can scroll smoothly EVERYWHERE on hardware much older/worse than my phone then there is something seriously wrong with Android at a deep functional level. I think Google needs to sort that out now they've "prettyfied" Android. Lipstick on a pig springs to mind. I love Android, and as it stands I would never consider iOS or WP. But I am jealous of the performance they get.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So the addition of hardware acceleration for moving UI elements doesn't function in CPU realtime like the iPhone or Windows Phones? I'm still running Virtuous G-Lite here, haven't flashed any ICS roms yet as they are all in beta.

setspeed said:
Am I the only person feeling this way?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I feel exactly the same way especially in regards to the app list and recently used apps. I think those are steps backward which is keeping me on GB. However ICS does have some improvements in other areas of the OS which I wish I could enjoy.
Sent from my HTC Vision using Tapatalk

setspeed said:
As a test I just overclocked to 1.8GHz on performance governor, and rebooted to ensure minimal running processes. This is on a fresh install of Andromadus Alpha v8, no apps installed except GAPPS - scrolling is still really choppy when going through lists, such as my GMail inbox and my contacts list. This is just a fact of life on Android, it doesn't matter what ROM you have, and I've been through a lot in the 14mths that I've had this phone
If iOS and WP can scroll smoothly EVERYWHERE on hardware much older/worse than my phone then there is something seriously wrong with Android at a deep functional level. I think Google needs to sort that out now they've "prettyfied" Android. Lipstick on a pig springs to mind. I love Android, and as it stands I would never consider iOS or WP. But I am jealous of the performance they get.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Fast real-time UI scrolling has very little to do with actual performance. From what I loosely understand, Android is fundamentally more ambitious. Rather than being flawed compared to her competitors. iOS and WP7(Not 100% sure about this.) has the UI on some kind of urgent priority line to render scrolling at 60fps. Android on the other hand, won't forsake any other tasks for the UI scrolling. In essence, Android is closer to a true computer.
That said, I'm guessing the only way to stamp out Android's inherent lagginess is to brute force it with increasingly advanced hardware. Or in my case, using MIUI bulletproof w/ that Charger V6 script thingie gives it a comparable homescreen scrolling speed to the iPhone 3GS.

setspeed said:
As a test I just overclocked to 1.8GHz on performance governor, and rebooted to ensure minimal running processes. This is on a fresh install of Andromadus Alpha v8, no apps installed except GAPPS - scrolling is still really choppy when going through lists, such as my GMail inbox and my contacts list. This is just a fact of life on Android, it doesn't matter what ROM you have, and I've been through a lot in the 14mths that I've had this phone
If iOS and WP can scroll smoothly EVERYWHERE on hardware much older/worse than my phone then there is something seriously wrong with Android at a deep functional level. I think Google needs to sort that out now they've "prettyfied" Android. Lipstick on a pig springs to mind. I love Android, and as it stands I would never consider iOS or WP. But I am jealous of the performance they get.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There was a very good explanation to why you would be seeing this that I unfortunately don't remember where I found it, but it was a google employee explaining why android will never LOOK as smooth as iOs (despite both being almost the same) what it is, is that with iOS it prioritizes interaction above everything else, including rendering, in that, if you were to load a page on safari or whatever and while its loading start moving the page around, all rendering will stop, whereas with android it will try to do both simultaneous thereby resulting in what appears to be a choppier experience. As for google fixing this, they cannot (or rather will not) because it would literally require an overhaul of everything that is android to fix, yes it's do-able, but it would result in everything that we know to be android restarting practically from scratch (with some trial and error already done for us IE we know what works so we can implement it from the beginning) Hope this answers your concerns!

noneabove said:
iOS it prioritizes interaction above everything else, including rendering, in that, if you were to load a page on safari or whatever and while its loading start moving the page around, all rendering will stop, whereas with android it will try to do both simultaneous thereby resulting in what appears to be a choppier experience.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hmm.. I'd read about it somewhere. And I'd also read elsewhere that the google devs wanted to find a decent middle ground to reduce this "choppiness" as well.

This the article others are referring to - https://plus.google.com/105051985738280261832/posts/2FXDCz8x93s
Also, another one from the same source (a senior Google/Android engineer) - https://plus.google.com/105051985738280261832/posts/XAZ4CeVP6DC
Sent from my Desire Z running CM7.

Yeah I was already aware of those posts by Dianne Hackborn and others. It also seems that NO-ONE including Hackborn herself can give a definitive answer (which doesn't then get refuted by someone) as to why iOS can achieve 60fps animation pretty much everywhere, and Android just fails spectacularly at it.
The technical issues are way above my head, and I have no real interest in changing that - I'm just a normal end-user (albeit one who likes to meddle, hence why I have an XDA account). What I would like to hear is that Google has a plan for fixing Android, whether that be through a rewrite or whatever, to nail this final issue of stuttery, laggy performance compared to the competition.
I think the original point of my post was that ICS doesn't seem to offer me much in the way of actual advantages over GB (except for apps). The launcher appears smoother (at the cost of now having to make mutliple swipes - a choice made to get around the abysmal list-scrolling performance). The task manager is prettier but less functional. It just seems like it's been tarted up, with none of the actual underlying issues fixed. That's how it is from my perspective.
I wish there was a viable alternative, as I am truly starting to get itchy feet. I know that I won't go anywhere at the moment, but one phone that really interested me was the Nokia N9. I never got the chance to actually use it, but all the reviews said that the Meego interface was a joy (despite a couple of minor performance issues and the fact Nokia killed it before it was born).
I think I'm starting to question whether in fact I need the advantages that Android offers at all. On a daily basis there is only one root app that I use and that is Adfree Android. Could I live without it - probably.
And although I love flashing new ROMs on my phone, and the choice that brings, ultimately I'm only trying to fix deficiencies with the software my phone came with. This DZ was dead slow when I first got it - overclocking and a new ROM fixed that. But when the competition is fast and smooth, would I feel the need for any of that? I suspect the answer is probably "Yes, I would miss it like anything". But the fact I'm asking myself these questions tells me I'm not perfectly happy with Android the way it is. iPhone users don't have that feeling. I know they expect less of a computer and more of an appliance, but when they have an amazing experience day after day, and I'm being frustrated day after day, I ask myself who really is the smarter one?

setspeed said:
I'm being frustrated day after day, I ask myself who really is the smarter one?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No one is smarter than anyone for choosing one particular brand over another. Its just a preference in the end.
While it's short sighted of you to equate UI scrolling to actual performance, you're quite entitled to love smooth scrolling.
And if 60 fps scrolling is your thing and if the lag bothers you that much. Then it would be wise to move to the iPhone or Windows. Especially if you believe it to be the smarter choice.
Sent from my HTC Vision using XDA App

Smarter as in "not spending a lot of time babying my phone". Is it possible to make the transition from phone tweaker to just phone user, and enjoy those benefits (scrolling performance, better quality of apps) instead of enjoying total control and customisation?? Who knows, but when my contract's up and if there isn't a decent qwerty Android on the market (highly likely) then maybe I should try a change!

The scrolling lag of Android is a software design "flaw" if you can call it that. Someone wrote a nice article on G+ about it. Essentially, Android spawns a thread for the UI and lets it do its thing. That's why when you scroll down, not only does the existing content move, but new content is also added on the fly. And this happens across the OS - when you are updating an app, the phone also is trying to address your latest command of swiping homescreens. The author went on to show how in iOS this is not the case, that when a webpage is loading and the user begins to scroll, the page stops loading and full processor power is dedicated to the scrolling, thus resulting in a smoother performance. Apparently, it is baked too deep into the kernel and changing that is not a trivial issue. thus, the only solution now is to throw more HP at it, which is why the latest crop of phones don't stutter too much.

I think I'm a victim of my own anticipation. Like most people here I check Android news on a daily basis. When a major version revision like 4.0 is announced I buy into all the hype and by the time it gets to release I'm ready for the second coming of Jesus. When that doesn't happen then I've set myself up for a major fall. ICS brings some welcome (and some not so welcome) changes, but there's nothing earth shattering here, it feels like an incremental improvement.
I'm setting myself up for some major flaming here, but I would like Google to pull out the big guns and wow us with something. Something like Siri.
Before you all lambast me, let me state my position - I don't think Siri will set the world on fire like Apple hopes it will, we're just not ready for it yet. And I know all us jaded tech types can sneer and say "I could do all this ages ago with Tasker and Voice Search and Vlingo etc etc". But what Apple has done is wrap it all up into a nice useable package that anyone can easily access, without having to think about it, or search the Market for apps. There is nothing wrong in spotting something that you think is great and adding it to your OS. And if you try and deny that this will how we will interact with our phones in 20yrs time (or perhaps via mind control!) then you are kidding yourself.
I know Apple bought it from an iOS dev, but equally they've polished it into something that is talked about by everyone - everyone has an opinion on it when they become aware of it. What does Android do (for the average user, who doesn't root/flash custom ROMs) that's anywhere near the same level of impressive? Widgets and nice Maps? I admit voice nav is a great selling point, but seriously, I think Google needs to step up it's game and start bringing out the big guns to compete with iOS which, although limiting in lots of ways, clearly has the most polished apps, the best user interaction in the mobile world when it comes to scrolling and smoothness, and they bring futuristic stuff like Siri to the party as a part of their standard OS. It's not about bragging rights, or showing off or anything like that - it's about being the best OS around, and at the moment, aside from the fact Android is very customisable even without root, I can't say it's 100% the best OS. It is for me, at the moment, and probably for you too if you're on this site, but for the rest of the general population I can see why Android doesn't really hold a candle to iOS in the layman's eyes.
Rant over!

The one major thing you're missing is that ICS was designed mainly to integrate functionality between both tablets and phones. Google made a decision and then decided they weren't to keep on developing Honeycomb nor likely wanted current tablets running cropped versions of GB when it was solely made as a phone OS.
So there was a notion to make a unification with devices running Gingerbread/Froyo along with tablets running GB/HC, thus ICS was formed.

ashwinmudigonda said:
The scrolling lag of Android is a software design "flaw" if you can call it that. Someone wrote a nice article on G+ about it. Essentially, Android spawns a thread for the UI and lets it do its thing.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you're referring to the post from a guy who used to be an intern at Google, then that second article link I posted (from Dianne Hackborn) is basically pointing out how that guy posted some incorrect stuff.
Sent from my Desire Z running CM7.

steviewevie said:
If you're referring to the post from a guy who used to be an intern at Google, then that second article link I posted (from Dianne Hackborn) is basically pointing out how that guy posted some incorrect stuff.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Doesn't matter if the guy posted incorrect stuff.
The empirical evidence and summary is that Android does not prioritize UI and UI animations (nor sound threads), and never will this point forward, so far.
Dianne also pointed out a deficiency in the kernel for high-priority/foreground threads which they gave up on fixing since Android 1.6.

I notice this every day but I'm a tech if it ain't broken i don't want it...

I'm just throwing my thoughts around here, please correct me if I'm wrong and flame me if you must, I'm kind of just interested in this topic.
I've had an ipod touch. I've played with the iphone 3gs. I've seen the iphone 4g. I've even been offered to try siri for a few weeks. The 3gs actually wasn't a huge leap from an ipod touch. They pretty much slapped a phone on it, right? There was nothing I could do on a 3gs that I couldn't do on an itouch connected to wifi. Literally nothing. The change from 3gs to 4g was just that. 3g changed to 4g. Beyond that, the user experience was identical. Nothing had changed. The addition of siri added 100 bucks of value to the 4g though? Yeah, that kinda didn't make sense to me, as there are literally free apps that did the same thing. But behind siri was the same phone. Ios hasn't changed drastically since the first time we saw it. Granted it's ALREADY such a great phone.
But look at android. Younger, and from the g1 to the nexus s, HUGE improvements, and for pennies to the dollar cheaper. Android WILL improve. There's no question of that. At this point, my phone has literally replaced my desktop; and from a phone that has already reached EOL, that's quite an accomplishment. the next gen phones have way more muscle to swing out at the graphical glitches that plague us, and the OS just keeps improving.
ICS is merely a stepping stone into something bigger. And android, being as customizable as it is, offers ui similar to ios through miui (soon miuiv4). You can't put off the changes made between cupcake, eclair, froyo and gingerbread. How you can put off the changes yet to be made, however, is quite staggering.