Related
...buy why?
I've been following the Streak for as long as its been rumored, and I haven't seen this brought up.
Why do you guys think that Dell decided to go to the UK first, and so much earlier, than in the US? Seems weird for a US-based tech company to release what looks to be a very high-profile device outside of the US, so much earlier, and not even in a comparably-sized market (if they released in "Europe" first that might make SOME sense...but in the UK only?)
The ONLY thing I could come up with is that they are using the UK as a test market, either for the hardware itself, or for their incarnation of Android. Perhaps an update to 2.1 on the US launch? Though that is rumored to be coming in January 2011, not on launch date.
Any other theories/facts out there?
I have a Streak and it is very good! I don't know why they released in the UK first, but I am pleased it did.
When it gets to the US it'll only increase the follwoing and developments will rocket. So I for one am looking forward to it too.
I am sure our cousins from across the pond are gonna love it
grizlore said:
I am sure our cousins from across the pond are gonna love it
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Only if they come out with a T-mobile 3g version
2 GB per month isnt enough and Att sucks!
2Gb per month? On O2 (and Vodafone - dunno about the rest) we get 500mb a month for the £5 a month data plan. Then another £5 per 500mb thereafter.
ap3604 said:
Only if they come out with a T-mobile 3g version
2 GB per month isnt enough and Att sucks!
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I'm looking to go from my G1 to the Streak but only on T-Mobile. If I'm switching carriers it sure WON'T be to AT&T!
hexydes said:
Any other theories/facts out there?
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I personally think that Dell is just way behind with their mobile phone department, being completely new to the game. 02 was probably the first real and successful partner that decided to pair up with Dell. Considering they are so hush-hush about the US release it makes me think the only reason for such a delayed launch is a delay in partnership. Or it could be because whoever their US partnership is has to wait until a previous contract is up. Or it could possibly be that nobody in the US wanted to partner with Dell so they decided to release it in the UK, to see potential interest/outcome around the world. Rumor has been going around that the US maybe released with 2.2, which wouldn't matter. Software is always upgradeable, hardware (which I think will be the exact same as the UK models and beta models) is not.
As for the Beta Streak's (from Texas), what an absolute joke. Dell has done a terrible terrible job at keeping their US customer's happy or in the 'know' thus far. And then once they decide to give it some publicity, it is to such a wide ranged age group that is mostly physically active. Now I am not saying most competent high-end phone owners are not active, I am just saying that most do not run races. (I would for a free Streak!)
Considering they have a page on their store for the coming-soon 'Aero', why not do the same for the Streak?
And if it is due to none of the above, then maybe the US is in for a big surprise with their model. But I highly doubt that. Everyone else currently with a Streak would be extremely upset (I know I would).
.
dell streak i have had for 2week now its the most awesome device i have ever had the chance to get my mutty paws on and i have had alot of devices with froyo 2.2 this will be unstopable and did you know there is a micro sd card x 2 in this device yes the other one is hdden inside to instal apps on 2gb and can be chnged to a 32gb if pleased plusa another 32gb external how about that then.
I think you should change your plan my friend, I get 3gb per month and unlimited wifi at the cloud with o2 for £15 per month although this is the data only plan.
SquidgyB said:
2Gb per month? On O2 (and Vodafone - dunno about the rest) we get 500mb a month for the £5 a month data plan. Then another £5 per 500mb thereafter.
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Muo said:
I personally think that Dell is just way behind with their mobile phone department, being completely new to the game. 02 was probably the first real and successful partner that decided to pair up with Dell. Considering they are so hush-hush about the US release it makes me think the only reason for such a delayed launch is a delay in partnership. Or it could be because whoever their US partnership is has to wait until a previous contract is up. Or it could possibly be that nobody in the US wanted to partner with Dell so they decided to release it in the UK, to see potential interest/outcome around the world. Rumor has been going around that the US maybe released with 2.2, which wouldn't matter. Software is always upgradeable, hardware (which I think will be the exact same as the UK models and beta models) is not.
As for the Beta Streak's (from Texas), what an absolute joke. Dell has done a terrible terrible job at keeping their US customer's happy or in the 'know' thus far. And then once they decide to give it some publicity, it is to such a wide ranged age group that is mostly physically active. Now I am not saying most competent high-end phone owners are not active, I am just saying that most do not run races. (I would for a free Streak!)
Considering they have a page on their store for the coming-soon 'Aero', why not do the same for the Streak?
And if it is due to none of the above, then maybe the US is in for a big surprise with their model. But I highly doubt that. Everyone else currently with a Streak would be extremely upset (I know I would).
.
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That statement is damning. Six months ago (late 2009/early 2010), the hardware in the "Dell Mini 5" (Streak) was cutting-edge, top-of-the-line. If they'd released then, they'd have had the fastest smartphone in the world. Now, we have the EVO, Nexus One, Incredible, DroidX, Captivate (in a week), iPhone 4, etc. The Dell Streak will be nothing more than your average high-end smartphone in a controversial form-factor, with an antiquated operating system.
I dunno, we'll see what I do. I was all-in for the Streak, because I really want the form-factor (larger screen, HDMI-out on the side for docking) and for Dell selling it unlocked (I don't want to buy through a carrier, or even have a contract, other than a month-to-month with T-Mobile or something), but the Streak is already looking pretty long in the tooth, and it hasn't even been released yet.
I think Dell really messed up on this one.
I think the worst of all is that you have this VERY passionate base of hardcore tech enthusiasts who really want this phone in the US, then Dell turns around, releases this phone in the UK, and is absolute silent about the plan for the US.
If they had any brains (which I really question at this point), they'd go to GDGT.com or something like that, find every person who has the Streak listed as a device they want, and ship them out. As of this moment, that is only 208 people. At $500 retail (though probably more like $300 at-cost), that's only about $100,000. I think Dell can afford that, and the good-will that it would build, from these extremely passionate users who will then go out and convince all of their friends, families, and others to buy this device, would more than recoup the cost.
Oh well. Over at StreakSmart, a LOT of people are looking at getting the Captivate now (or something else), and I have to say, while I was locked in for the Dell Streak, I'm going to be keeping my options open now. Every week that passes by, that 1GHz Snapdragon hardware set is getting older, more cool phones come out, and they have better versions of Android. It's going to be hard to seriously say "Dude...I'm gettin' a Dell!" too much longer...
lesday said:
I think you should change your plan my friend, I get 3gb per month and unlimited wifi at the cloud with o2 for £15 per month although this is the data only plan.
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Aye, I need the talk plan as much as I do the data. In any case, I took the Streak back - very little media codec support, shoddy audio quality, and lackluster graphics power eventually won over the 5in screen... I'm off to get a Galaxy S from either T-Mobile (coverage dependent) or Three, if Three get their fingers out of their ar$es and make the Galaxy S available.
SquidgyB said:
... I'm off to get a Galaxy S from either T-Mobile (coverage dependent) or Three, if Three get their fingers out of their ar$es and make the Galaxy S available.
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Crap, you better move over to the Captivate forum ASAP! For some reason, making any decision to go against the Streak here will get you flamed big time! I haven't seen that type of behavior on this board before so I was left scratching my head when I made the same decision.
As long as you take a balanced look at it the I don't think it should be flame worthy, but I know what you mean.
Apologies for the thread hijack as well - but it's not like there's a specific question being asked here.
Anyhow, I did really like the Streak for what it was, it's just that it didn't live up to the expectations of what I needed from it. FLAC support and decent audio quality is very important to me; the click and low level hiss in the background when the Streak played any audio was something I just couldn't live with.
I'll miss 5in of screen space, it must be said. Browsing on the Streak was a great experience, but seeing Quake 3 and the newer games coming out on the Galaxy, as well as integrated HW decoding of the major codecs (decoding 1080p on the fly? crikey!) are just another nail in the coffin.
Oh, and £54 for a dock so I can have HDMI out, and £25 for a USB charging cable? That's just rude.
Unfortunately those are things we haven't been able to compare here in the US. We have to rely on reviews until we can get them in hand. I'm sure that if I get both units in hand and the Dell strikes me as more usable, I'll buy it. I'm definitely going to be more critical of the Streak now that the Captivate will be out at the same time.
meatrocket said:
For some reason, making any decision to go against the Streak here will get you flamed big time! I haven't seen that type of behavior on this board before so I was left scratching my head when I made the same decision.
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For better or worse people are emotionally invested in their purchases so they take it personally when you say "F#ck Dell and their stupid Streak" like you did in the other thread, hence the flaming.
Why the delay?? Just as was the case with the Motorola Backflip, the little people at AT&T are busy crippling the Streak and adding their UI changes and their bloatware/crapware.
They promised Backflip purchasers an early update from 1.3x, guess how that has turned out. The UI and other changes done by the AT&T gnomes make the update much, much harder.
What is seldom mentioned is that with adding these changes to the Streak will also make it harder and harder to later do FROYO. Maybe impossible! Buttons are already non-standard right out of the box. Add the UI and the crapware.....
We should start a pool, whoever can guess the month and year you can get your Streak OTA to FROYO or GINGERBREAD gets a free HTC android phone with the latest upgrades Factory installed and de-bugged.
Knowing all this already, looks like AT&T has done a deal so that, at least initially, the've axed T-Mobile and there will be no direct competitive Dell sales of unlocked and uncrippled Streaks.
hmose said:
Knowing all this already, looks like AT&T has done a deal so that, at least initially, the've axed T-Mobile and there will be no direct competitive Dell sales of unlocked and uncrippled Streaks.
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Interesting, and I'll take 03 '12 for the pool
Any source on the "...no direct competitive Dell sales..."?
I Hope I am wrong on that but during the short history of Android on AT&T no manufacturer of any device sold by AT&T has at the same time sold it directly unlocked. Nor during that same period, has AT&T ever provided an upgrade to any of its Android phones. History has a way of repeating itself. Again, maybe this is the dawn of a new era. I hope AT&T and Dell are listening.
Apple likewise does not sell the IPhone direct and unlocked. Go figure!
As Apple has repeatedly warned this week, if you own an unlocked Iphone, it is not in warranty. That is now true of AT&T Android phones is it not?
I hope you're wrong too
My initial (gut reation) thoughts were towards 2 recent items, 1) the ruling that thou shalt not lock thy devices, and 2) Dell seems to be committed to direct sales of their devices and doing so unlocked.
However, these idealological thoughts aside, you're right, recent history doesn't support my dreams.
Back when Dell first officially announced the Venue Pro, they made a big deal about how they were going to use this phone internally, replacing all their employees' Blackberries. This was a very strong selling point for me. My recent experiences with other Dell products had been decidedly negative, and I was very wary giving any more money to this company for another crappy product that they refused to support. My wife's laptop developed hard drive & hibernation/sleep problems, and Dell support stonewalled the multitude of user complaints in a similar fashion as they are now doing with the DVP.
The DVP had a compelling form factor and screen, and I was intrigued. I figured if the company was committing to using it internally, then they would fix whatever problems arose. I wonder if Dell employees are having this same spate of issues, if they've had to serve as guinea pigs for firmware updates, and how many have requested their Blackberries back? Any anonymous lurkers here wishing to chime in?
timtrout said:
Back when Dell first officially announced the Venue Pro, they made a big deal about how they were going to use this phone internally, replacing all their employees' Blackberries. This was a very strong selling point for me. My recent experiences with other Dell products had been decidedly negative, and I was very wary giving any more money to this company for another crappy product that they refused to support. My wife's laptop developed hard drive & hibernation/sleep problems, and Dell support stonewalled the multitude of user complaints in a similar fashion as they are now doing with the DVP.
The DVP had a compelling form factor and screen, and I was intrigued. I figured if the company was committing to using it internally, then they would fix whatever problems arose. I wonder if Dell employees are having this same spate of issues, if they've had to serve as guinea pigs for firmware updates, and how many have requested their Blackberries back? Any anonymous lurkers here wishing to chime in?
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Good point, I had forgotten about the employee phone issue. MS made big news for doing a similar thing for their employees....I wonder how many regret that step.
I recall the sleep/hiberation issue. I also recall that it was not isolated to Dell. Toshiba and HP had the issue on their laptops..and I assume many others did too. I don't recall seeing conversations with those companies until a fix was in place. I'm not advocating the silence part of anything....but Dell is not alone in keeping its collective mouth shut.
Does Samsung talk openly about the hardware issues on the Focus and Omnia? Does HTC talk opening about the amazing piece of crap called the surround? How about the wonderful display screen on the HD7.....
I think the difference is in how fast they respond with a fix. Samsung got many of the hardware issues tweeked in no time. I understand HTC fixed some hardware hiccups also. But so far....nothing from Dell. That is my irritant....not the keeping quiet....in the time since the problems were reported, they have released a Open market phone for Europe and India, they have released a phone for AT&T. Both with new FW. The Open market phone had a FW of 210 and has the same problem. the AT&T phone has a ROM of 209 and so far I don't see any reports of the same problem.....210 was released before 209......
I have a 8gb AT&T DVP and the problems are still there. I experience crashes and freezes. I haven't bothered sending it in after learning it takes 3-6 weeks to process the phone once they get it back. I don't think I can go that long without a phone. So, I will most likely be switching out the SD card to a 32gb and saying **** you to the dell warranty since it sucks anyways.(Covers defective phones but they are all defective)
Kenji117 said:
I have a 8gb AT&T DVP and the problems are still there. I experience crashes and freezes. I haven't bothered sending it in after learning it takes 3-6 weeks to process the phone once they get it back. I don't think I can go that long without a phone. So, I will most likely be switching out the SD card to a 32gb and saying **** you to the dell warranty since it sucks anyways.(Covers defective phones but they are all defective)
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If you're willing to swap out a card....why not try a Hard reset first....if you haven't already done so. I know its not the fix all...but sometimes it works. The 8g version was not known to have problems...so if you are seeing them....it might be something else....
Do a hard reset and see how the phone works afterwards....
Aww gotta got my apps all over again but it would be worth it if I don't have these issues anymore
How do I hard reset? Is it just that option to reset the phone?
Sent from my Venue Pro using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
To the original question, I seriously doubt anyone at dell and definitely no one at Microsoft is using the crap, no way these problems would have been left for so long if those employees could not use them.
They made a big fuss over the announcement but after that silence. You would think when they were actually deployed that would also be announced, methinks they used us as double beta testers (WP7 & DVP) and when the experiment failed spectacularly they shelved that project.
My brother works at Dell and he says the ARE using the DVP...I will have to ask him if anyone is complaining of issues.
peeps said:
My brother works at Dell and he says the ARE using the DVP...I will have to ask him if anyone is complaining of issues.
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Well that sure as hell explains why jack-nothing is getting done with these lemons. If they are trying to do any work on these things, they aren't getting more than 5 seconds of good hard nose grinding in, before this crap crashes.
efjay said:
To the original question, I seriously doubt anyone at dell and definitely no one at Microsoft is using the crap, no way these problems would have been left for so long if those employees could not use them.
They made a big fuss over the announcement but after that silence. You would think when they were actually deployed that would also be announced, methinks they used us as double beta testers (WP7 & DVP) and when the experiment failed spectacularly they shelved that project.
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I used to work at Microsoft and have a bunch of friends there, mostly in various field and sales positions. Just about everyone I have spoken to has a Windows Phone now, most of those are carrying the Focus. Nobody I know there has a DVP.
raremage said:
I used to work at Microsoft and have a bunch of friends there, mostly in various field and sales positions. Just about everyone I have spoken to has a Windows Phone now, most of those are carrying the Focus. Nobody I know there has a DVP.
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I know several people at Microsoft with the Dell. But there are not many.
Ditto.. I have a few friends at Xbox. I think it has to do with 2 things..
1) T-mobile sucks in Seattle and Redmond (Lots of Dead zones.. even in Pikes Market area, thats my experience anyway) - This would seem to be why, as someone noted, there seem to be more Focuses (and I noticed a lot of Surrounds as well) at MS.
2) The sales approach, as the phone wasn't available at T-mo stores in the WA area. I mean really didn't Dell realize when Google with a big budget AND T-mobile behind them couldn't sell the Nexus One and closed its online store this was NOT the way to go. They even repeated Google by coming out later with an AT&T version again only available online. Why did Dell think a LESS aggressive but yet similar "online only" sales approach would work.
3) Issues with the DVP from the start..
cdgoin said:
Ditto.. I have a few friends at Xbox. I think it has to do with 2 things..
1) T-mobile sucks in Seattle and Redmond (Lots of Dead zones.. even in Pikes Market area, thats my experience anyway) - This would seem to be why, as someone noted, there seem to be more Focuses (and I noticed a lot of Surrounds as well) at MS.
2) The sales approach, as the phone wasn't available at T-mo stores in the WA area. I mean really didn't Dell realize when Google with a big budget AND T-mobile behind them couldn't sell the Nexus One and closed its online store this was NOT the way to go. They even repeated Google by coming out later with an AT&T version again only available online. Why did Dell think a LESS aggressive but yet similar "online only" sales approach would work.
3) Issues with the DVP from the start..
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Actually I think it was more about timing. WP shipped Oct 21 in Europe and November 8 in the USA. The first 'fixed' sells arrived on December 21. By then most MS employees not on sprint or Verizon had purchased the focus or the hd7.
I know I posted a while ago if this was a good replacement for my G2 - but now I'm looking to supplement it.
This would be over the other two current options, the Lumia 710 and the Radar. I love physical keyboards, and I'm assuming the screen between the three is the best (and obviously biggest). Plus, I like the reaction when I ask T-Mobile employees about it and then show them pics of it - most of them aren't even aware it exists. Front facing camera on the Radar is nice, but not a dealbreaker. They're all available to me for around the same price brand-new/off-contract.
Anyway, my concern is that it being an older phone, I'm not sure how much longer it'll be supported, and if it'll be supported into Tango/Apollo (not saying either the 710 or Radar will, though); although according to a post in this article, if Dell reps are getting them to replace other phones and it's still getting updates, I'm hoping it'll get supported for a while:
http://www.wpcentral.com/dell-shocks-world-releases-8107-os-update-unlocked-venue-pro
I'm aware of the lack of Wifi hotspot and compass, but neither really matter to me. I need a WP7 phone period (for work), and it has to be on T-Mobile, so it's just between these three phones.
Raw spec wise, the VP is 1 generation older.
It's a 4.1 AMOLED (no super, no plus, which means it's pentile)
Biggest diff is obviously the screen, the V/VP's screen isnt amazing but it's by no means bad, it's easily much better then any plain lcd it's age (but it's a year old, dunno how it compares to more recent lcds like the other 2 you mention) After using a 4.1 and 5.0" phone, I'm pretty sure there's no way I'm gonna go back to anything under 4.0" It's simply too small unless you're basically using it as a featurephone.
No WP7 device is really old enough to be EOLed yet, but the VP is a launch device so it will be among the first to EOL (whenever that is?)
The tmo one is only 99 cents on contract (if you consider that cheap) you can easily get a brand new one off ebay for less then $200. (New, unopened, and recently manufactured)
Full price: eh it's a hard sell.
On contract/less then full price: It's worth the money if you want a HW keyboard.
It's basically breaks down to: do you want the keyboard and screen size.
Screen Size and Keyboard make it a no brainer to me. I wont even consider reupping my contract for a new windows phone unless the screen is 4.3in minimum though. The 1st gen processor doesn't really matter much as WinPhone is so smooth...Just my thoughts.
I have both the dell VP and the 710. I have also spent time with the radar. There is no easy way to recommend, seeing how this is a basic personal choice.
Of the 3, the dell is the nicest.
Of the 3, the 710 is the fastest.
Of the 3, the dell and the 710 do not have front facing cameras.
Of the 3, the dell is by far the oldest. There were serious questions regarding mango compatibility. I doubt, PERSONAL OPINION ONLY, the dell will see Apollo.
Do not mix Tango and Apollo. They are not on the same path. Tango is considered a mango derivative, not an upgrade, most likely associated with a hardware line.
As second Gen hardware starts arriving in the coming months, the dell will fall, behind speed wise at least. So if your phone usage includes a healthy dose of data usage, you should probably factor the lack of 4g and wifi n into your decision.
Hmm...definitely gives me a lot to think about...anybody know how battery life compares to the other two phones? The keyboard is basically the #1 reason why I'm considering the phone, but not if there's better options. I know WP7 is smooth in general - is there anywhere the better/newer processors of the Radar/710 come in? Data speeds are a valid point, but I don't think I'll be needing much more than it provides.
I really don't see why people are comparing 1st gen and 2nd gen. The only MAJOR difference I see is the processor, is 400mhz REALLY going to make that much difference? Not that I can think of.
Yea the camera sucks when not shooting in daylight but its a phone...And yea there's no front facing camera(a luxury not a requirement)either, in all the times of having a FF camera on my devices I only ever used it once on my Galaxy S in a Skype call.
The other advantages of this phone far outway its disadvantages.
Perfect physical keyboard
Big amoled screen
Nice quality speaker/mic due to slider mechanism
Premium look + feel
Gorilla Glass
Removable SD card, limitless expansion(if you dont care about your warrenty)
The compass not working isn't a major problem either, its just a luxury that COMPLIMENTS the gps, as long as I can use Bing/Google/Navigon maps I honestly couldn't care about the compass.
Let's not forget that software issues can be fixed, yea I know Dell haven't said much regarding the compass but that doesn't mean to say they won't fix it in the future.
I'd say go for it, until the generation gap is that big I don't think this being a 1st gen phone really makes all that much difference.
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alodar1 said:
So if your phone usage includes a healthy dose of data usage, you should probably factor the lack of 4g and wifi n into your decision.
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The Dell Service Manual and Windows Phone Device Manager both state that the phone has N capabilities...
Had mine since launch, and personally while I would like to upgrade to something like the Lumia 900 the Dell really is still a good, fast and stable WP7 phone with the advantage of a unique design and the excellent keyboard. If your work usage just entails emails, viewing docs and calls there really isnt any reason not to get it.
As for support, generic devices are getting the update to 8107 so at least for now its still supported. If you can get it cheap now, do it and enjoy and wait for the real upgraded hardware with Apollo.
Bongo2k said:
The Dell Service Manual and Windows Phone Device Manager both state that the phone has N capabilities...
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Click to collapse
It must be in error then, S1 snapdragons (such as the QSD8250 in the VP) do not support N, only B/G.
efjay said:
Had mine since launch, and personally while I would like to upgrade to something like the Lumia 900 the Dell really is still a good, fast and stable WP7 phone with the advantage of a unique design and the excellent keyboard. If your work usage just entails emails, viewing docs and calls there really isnt any reason not to get it.
As for support, generic devices are getting the update to 8107 so at least for now its still supported. If you can get it cheap now, do it and enjoy and wait for the real upgraded hardware with Apollo.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree with your statement.....but. It depends on how the OP acquiress the device. Get it used off Craigs list or ebay...sure....go for it...using appropriate caution. Buy it new and lock into a 2 yr contract, why? Why lock into a contract with an old phone. There is no difference in 400mhz is like saying all cars drive 60mph. Yes, thats true. Side by side there is a distinct difference in the speed of getting your data. If you choose to not see that, thats ok. sitting side by side with my Droid Bionic, there is NO comparison speed wise. The VP is a clear second choice. Even with the 710, speed wise, its a clear second place.
Now, the OP said data is not primary in their use of the phone. In that I agree that speed should not be a problem then. But I will fall back, once again, on old hardware, and a 2 yr contract. At the end of that contract, the Dell VP will be 3yr+ old hardware.
But.....the thing is pretty...the screed is very good...the keyboard is nice. Go for it if speed and age are ok with you. You wont be dissatisfied.
---------- Post added at 01:06 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:04 PM ----------
TheManii said:
It must be in error then, S1 snapdragons (such as the QSD8250 in the VP) do not support N, only B/G.
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I've never got the wifi N to connect, ever. I played with all the frequencies, and bands, etc. Had a connection to the MS DEV team for WP, and they confirmed, to me, no n with the Dell...at least the original dell vp.
alodar1 said:
I agree with your statement.....but. It depends on how the OP acquiress the device. Get it used off Craigs list or ebay...sure....go for it...using appropriate caution. Buy it new and lock into a 2 yr contract, why? Why lock into a contract with an old phone. There is no difference in 400mhz is like saying all cars drive 60mph. Yes, thats true. Side by side there is a distinct difference in the speed of getting your data. If you choose to not see that, thats ok. sitting side by side with my Droid Bionic, there is NO comparison speed wise. The VP is a clear second choice. Even with the 710, speed wise, its a clear second place.
Now, the OP said data is not primary in their use of the phone. In that I agree that speed should not be a problem then. But I will fall back, once again, on old hardware, and a 2 yr contract. At the end of that contract, the Dell VP will be 3yr+ old hardware.
But.....the thing is pretty...the screed is very good...the keyboard is nice. Go for it if speed and age are ok with you. You wont be dissatisfied.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree the Dell is not a good choice to get on a contract now, I dont think the other 2 WP7 choices on Tmo are any better either. The Radar and 710 storage is pitiful and the screens are smaller, and in a few months there will be better devices with faster data and more storage, probably not with a hardware keyboard but with big enough screens to make it easier to adjust.
I dont think the age of the hardware is too relevant, the Radar and 710 are themselves old tech compared to the current range of android phones, even compared to the iphone. The Dell still works beautifully though, and is one reason I dont feel the itch to get something else. Tough choice, but all told I would still pick the Dell for non-contract use, and wait for something better if it is going to be put on a contract.
efjay said:
I agree the Dell is not a good choice to get on a contract now, I dont think the other 2 WP7 choices on Tmo are any better either. The Radar and 710 storage is pitiful and the screens are smaller, and in a few months there will be better devices with faster data and more storage, probably not with a hardware keyboard but with big enough screens to make it easier to adjust.
I dont think the age of the hardware is too relevant, the Radar and 710 are themselves old tech compared to the current range of android phones, even compared to the iphone. The Dell still works beautifully though, and is one reason I dont feel the itch to get something else. Tough choice, but all told I would still pick the Dell for non-contract use, and wait for something better if it is going to be put on a contract.
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Click to collapse
T=Mobile is notorious for low ended hardware, especially with Windows Devices. The Radar and Lumia follow that path. I am more familar with the Lumia. Though I am happy with the device in that its 4g and wireless N, The look and feel are not what I would decide to move to for a primary 2yr phone. I too am looking very closely at the Lumia 900.
I've always hoped that TMO would begin to offer a couple of mediium to higher ended phones in the Windows space. Even a Samsung would be a change. But continued reliance on HTC and low end hardware overall, just makes me doubt TMO's commitment to quality.
I say again, if you can get a DELL VP off contract, its well worth it. On contract though, its an old phone thats just getting older. Think about phone design, testing, etc. and how long that takes. Then remember the DELL was released in Dec 2010. That means the design and hardware pushes back to close to, if not into, 2009. Thats a long time for a phone, hardware design wise.
I can vouch that the V dates back to early 2010/late 2009 as prototype roms are known from back then.
The VP is essentially a V+keyboard, so hardware wise it's the basically the same. The V/VP are some of the last S1 devices released, with the VP being a WP7 launch device.
Looking around: are there really that few choices for WP7 device on TmoUSA? I bought my VP for unrelated reasons.
Looking on wikipedia, pretty much all S2 WP7 devices are for at&t for US markets, or pretty much all but tmo?
Depending on your work you might not even notice the difference from S1/S2, if it were me I'd (and under the rather large assumption all device drivers are of the same quality):
I'd pick the VP for the larger screen if you wanted 3g on tmoUSA.
The fact it's only 4.1 isnt saying much, but it means jack how fast your phone is if the screen's so small you can only look at 1/20th of a page/whatever at a time.
If it wasnt tmo, something like the lumia 900/titan 2/focus s are pretty good otherwise (ignoring price)
If you want a HW keyboard, the VP is the only(?) tmoUSA 3g supported device.
If you must have a keyboard, nothing compares to the DVP. I've owned both the HD7 and the DVP, and I prefer the HD7. You can find those pretty cheap on Craigslist or eBay, 4.3" screen, decent, not great but better than the DVP, camera, and it has full unlock and custom roms if you like to tinker.
The DVP is a much prettier piece of hardware. I'll give it that. The screen is great compared to the HD7.
I would wait just a little longer and see what TMO releases. I still have faith that a Nokia, 800/900 will be coming. A TMO HDx successor would be great if I had an ultimate request.
jelliottz said:
If you must have a keyboard, nothing compares to the DVP. I've owned both the HD7 and the DVP, and I prefer the HD7. You can find those pretty cheap on Craigslist or eBay, 4.3" screen, decent, not great but better than the DVP, camera, and it has full unlock and custom roms if you like to tinker.
The DVP is a much prettier piece of hardware. I'll give it that. The screen is great compared to the HD7.
I would wait just a little longer and see what TMO releases. I still have faith that a Nokia, 800/900 will be coming. A TMO HDx successor would be great if I had an ultimate request.
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Now wouldn't that be grand!!! A nokia 800/900 on T-Mobile. I'm crossing everything for that. However...patience is required. I understand AT&T has a 45-90 day exclusive window on the 900. So the earliest we could possibly see it is June-ish. And, I believe the 800 has yet to be picked up in North America.
Which ever the next device, consider a higher end model. This should allow updates to Apollo possible. I have also heard through the birdies that the first Apollo internal testing builds are ready. So hopefully we should be hearing things about that shortly.
alodar1 said:
Now wouldn't that be grand!!! A nokia 800/900 on T-Mobile. I'm crossing everything for that. However...patience is required. I understand AT&T has a 45-90 day exclusive window on the 900. So the earliest we could possibly see it is June-ish. And, I believe the 800 has yet to be picked up in North America.
Which ever the next device, consider a higher end model. This should allow updates to Apollo possible. I have also heard through the birdies that the first Apollo internal testing builds are ready. So hopefully we should be hearing things about that shortly.
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As nice as the 4.3" 900 sounds, I wouldn't second guess picking up the 800. They are both amazing looking phones. Why TMO picked the 710 over the 800? We may never know.
jelliottz said:
As nice as the 4.3" 900 sounds, I wouldn't second guess picking up the 800. They are both amazing looking phones. Why TMO picked the 710 over the 800? We may never know.
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Possibly for the same reason why they dont have the galaxy nexus (tmo previously was the launch partner for every other nexus, and the g1), they're trying to shoot themselves in the foot?
The newest device they have seems to be the HTC amaze, which at first impression from the specs is just a rehash of the htc sensation, possibly a varient of the sensation XE? (which is only months old)
Has tmo had any flagship device since last year (as a major launch partner i mean, "oh we also carry" things dont really count)?
The closest flagship wp7 device they had was the HD7, which at&t turned around and got the HD7S?
The titan/II and lumia8/900's would count as flagship devices, and the titan's are At&t devices.
Basically, tmoUSA's been sitting on their butts for the past half year or so?
They're lacking flagship devices on both fronts basically?
Until someone releases flagship AWS devices, you're not gonna see anything above edge bringing over a device.
If you dont mind that you could simply pick any unlocked device available, like the lumia 800. Amazon is selling unlocked international 800's.
TheManii said:
Possibly for the same reason why they dont have the galaxy nexus (tmo previously was the launch partner for every other nexus, and the g1), they're trying to shoot themselves in the foot?
The newest device they have seems to be the HTC amaze, which at first impression from the specs is just a rehash of the htc sensation, possibly a varient of the sensation XE? (which is only months old)
Has tmo had any flagship device since last year (as a major launch partner i mean, "oh we also carry" things dont really count)?
The closest flagship wp7 device they had was the HD7, which at&t turned around and got the HD7S?
The titan/II and lumia8/900's would count as flagship devices, and the titan's are At&t devices.
Basically, tmoUSA's been sitting on their butts for the past half year or so?
They're lacking flagship devices on both fronts basically?
Until someone releases flagship AWS devices, you're not gonna see anything above edge bringing over a device.
If you dont mind that you could simply pick any unlocked device available, like the lumia 800. Amazon is selling unlocked international 800's.
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Click to collapse
TMOUS had the Sensation which I would consider a flagship. I had one, and after rooting and s-off it was amazing. You're right about the Amaze being a rehash. Slightly better camera and faster data speed (at the sacrifice of battery) is the only difference.
I use to buy unlocked international devices before TMO had 3g. I can't go back to edge speeds though. I wouldn't complain if they had hspa aws bands. Doesn't even have to be hspa+...
I'm waiting for pentaband chips to become more common. Its not too far down the road (I hope).
It's getting off topic, but the galaxy nexus is itself pentaband.
Buy a GSM galaxy nexus, it supports 850/900/1700/1900/2100, pretty much only missing 800.
Really makes you wonder why tmo doesnt have it, it's literally just a stamp of approval if you look at the nexus S (pretty much unmodified, launched as the AWS varient)
You could argue that carriers such as at&t and tmo are blocking cross-supporting devices from launching, there's nothing stopping a manu from simply not specifically releasing it in the US.
I believe it's not the chips per-se that determine what bands they support, but what amps the manufacturer puts in them. HTC is notorous for cutting corners and putting in the absolute minimum needed for a varient.
Hopefully nokia or samsung will make a WP7 phone that's at least triband or higher, preferably quad/penta. Nokia's already got experience with pentaband devices, they were like the first, or close enough.
It really doesnt matter which os you like, only that there's plenty of people on the wrong side of the fence for 3g
TheManii said:
It's getting off topic, but the galaxy nexus is itself pentaband.
Buy a GSM galaxy nexus, it supports 850/900/1700/1900/2100, pretty much only missing 800.
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I thought I read that all those bands were not available. They were all listed but not all selectable. I don't own the nexus, nor have I played with it. Just a side article I read somewhere. I could be mistaken, most likely am....
Thanks for all the info/help, guys - I went ahead and bought it for $230 plus $4 overnight shipping, hopefully should have it tomorrow to start playing with. I'll post my reactions (and any questions) soon after.
First of all I am not what I would call a fan boy even though every major appliance in my house is a Samsung, even the dishwasher. I have an S3 phone and the Note 10.1 is my constant companion. Lately I have been wondering as we wait for JB update (both phone and tablet) if the Apple ruling in the USA is hampering the speed that we are getting Samsung updates or software. Hell, you can barely get any accessories for the Note 10.1 in the US much less an update. There are even issues with some software available on the the Samsung app store that due to licensing issues Samsung can't sell in the US but the rest of the world has full access.
I love my tablet and would not trade it for any other. Works great as it is and if JB never came I would be fine. However, I think that it is possible we will see a much different user experience here in the states over the next few years when it comes to Samsung Tablets and Phones than the rest of the world. Until Apple gets off the crack pipe and stops litigating every electronic item that comes out we may have an issue.
Thoughts?
rap6388 said:
...if the Apple ruling in the USA is hampering the speed that we are getting Samsung updates or software.
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It's just Samsung's priorities or lack thereof. HTC's just as bad. And both typically launch updates internationally first so our friends overseas aren't getting something we're not since other than the one German carrier ROM no Note has JB. The JB roll-out on the SGS3's not going particularly well and the One X JB update went back to the drawing board after problems were encountered when it was rolled out to the first region to receive it (Taiwan). So it’s the update process that sucks and the U.S. is just along for the ride.
Hell, you can barely get any accessories for the Note 10.1 in the US
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Or Europe. The car dock for the GN was released nine months after it was shown. Same thing for the wireless charging station for the SGS3. The U.S. actually got the book cover for the Note before Europe. The accessory line is just mismanaged; I don't think the U.S. fares better or worse than the rest of the world. And again, HTC's the same. Kind of makes you wonder why they offer accessories at all if they don't want to sell them.
I think that it is possible we will see a much different user experience here in the states over the next few years when it comes to Samsung Tablets and Phones than the rest of the world.
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Click to collapse
You need to separate tablets and phones. Phones are always going to be a cluster here in the U.S because Samsung doesn't sell unlocked phones directly and the carriers here are notorious for their lack of urgency for getting updates out. The U.S. Wi-Fi Note is a Samsung direct device and so far hasn't been treated better or worse than its international relatives when it comes to updates. Samsung customizes the s/w by region for each device they sell. The U.S. is just another region and a big one at that. Certain Android features are blocked in the U.S. by both Samsung and HTC but so far that hasn’t appeared to affect the update schedule one way or the other.
Don't you guys never heard abaut ebay (de or gb). And considering on updates, sammobile page is available on whole earth.
No, its the same everywhere else. I'm in the uk and have received 0 updates.
im in egypt and no update
i wish the give the update to world wide very soon
I don't think I was clear. This is not about the JB update but just Samungs' position in the market right now with Apple hanging over their head based on the over the top billion dollar ruling.
For example, there is an app in Samsung market called DirectOffice Print. It is a great print app but the US owner can't buy the app on the app store because of contract issues Samsung has in the US. It is items like this and features that the US seem to miss that I am speaking of.
rap6388 said:
I don't think I was clear. This is not about the JB update but just Samungs' position in the market right now with Apple hanging over their head based on the over the top billion dollar ruling.
For example, there is an app in Samsung market called DirectOffice Print. It is a great print app but the US owner can't buy the app on the app store because of contract issues Samsung has in the US. It is items like this and features that the US seem to miss that I am speaking of.
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The Samsung App store not being able to manage payments in the U.S. is an infrastructure issue that has nothing to do with Apple. They've said U.S. payments will be in enable in Q1 2013. And the "billion dollar ruling" is a drop in the bucket; they made $7.4B in profit in Q3 of this year alone. By raising Apple's chip prices 20% they probably covered it if they indeed ever have to pay it. The Note V will be out by the time appeals are exhausted. If Samsung's not doing something or not doing it right it's because their Samsung. They get a lot right but they get a lot wrong too.
rap6388 said:
I don't think I was clear. This is not about the JB update but just Samungs' position in the market right now with Apple hanging over their head based on the over the top billion dollar ruling.
For example, there is an app in Samsung market called DirectOffice Print. It is a great print app but the US owner can't buy the app on the app store because of contract issues Samsung has in the US. It is items like this and features that the US seem to miss that I am speaking of.
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Click to collapse
Well, as much as I hate to say it, this is how Sammy does business.
It's worse if you're in Canada.
Samsung Canada has a reciprocal agreement with Samsung USA not to sell to each other's market. But Samsung Canada doesn't feel there's much demand in Canada for computer products - just phones... (although it is getting better - we now have netbooks... Yes, that was sarcasm...) so we either get Samsung products late or not at all. And even though we're right on the border - we can cross border shop - we can't buy the products in the US online and have it shipped.
Ironically, Samsung opened their first North American full time store in Metrotown Mall in Burnaby British Columbia Canada (a suburb of Vancouver).but they can't show most of their products because they're not available in Canada and you can't buy them from the US.
And even though Canada uses the same cell and WiFi frequencies as the US, we get 'special' verisons of their products that block us from getting updates at the same time as the US. (That's why there's a GN 8010 AND a GN 8013 that are essentially identical). I had the same problem with my Galaxy Nexus phone - the Canadian version is a yakjuux which is supported (barely) by Samsung rather than the yakju version that's supported by Google directly,.
Like you - most of my hardware is Samsung - simply because they build exactly what I want. No one else does. But it means I have to drive to the US and buy these over the counter and drive them back, or have a friend in the US ship it to me.
I may like Samsung's products - but the company sucks...
Side note: Also, they're lousy at getting accessories in big box stores like Best Buy and Future Shop up here... I was trying to get a Note 10.1 Book case and the Samsung Store was out. They recommended going to BB or FS and I had to point out that neither of them actually carry any Samsung accessories - hell, it's hard enough finding the Note 10.1 in some of them...
I should have learned my lesson when I had my Tab 10.1, took them a year to update it to ICS. By the time they did that, I had been using unofficial ROM for about 4 months (give or take). Not acceptable. This is definitely my last Samsung tablet, even though I love it dearly. Samsung don't deserve one single dime for their awful commitment to customer's satisfaction.
Gotta get Nexus
if you want the latest ROMS
mrdaco said:
Don't you guys never heard abaut ebay (de or gb). And considering on updates, sammobile page is available on whole earth.
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That's not a solution. If I wanted to buy from unreliable and potentially shady resellers - I'd buy at Best Buy.
At least they have a return policy...
The point is that if you're going to make products, you should support them well. Or at all. Samsung is the leader in sales for smartphones and are rapidly growing in market share for tablets... yet they still can't get Best Buy to carry cases for their phones or tablets. All you get is the usual wall after wall of iDevice crap.
Best Buy isn't a charity - they carry what they think will sell - or what the manufacturer will pay them to carry (yes, surprise - manufacturers pay for special displays and 'endcaps' as well as for preferred positioning - higher on a shelf for example). Samsung has to spend a bit more to get the visibility Apple gets. They have to realise that customer support is more than just having a lousy website that's more about selling more product than about supporting the customers they already have...
But 'return customer' and 'customer loyalty' seems very low on Asian hardware maker's minds, it would seem.
TheWerewolf said:
But 'return customer' and 'customer loyalty' seems very low on Asian hardware maker's minds, it would seem.
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The h/w business is almost entirely Asian with the exception of Apple, Nokia, and Motorola. We've discussed update priorities, accessory availability, and general attention to existing customer's needs. Only Motorola sells Android devices so it's them vs. the Asians if you want to draw a comparison. I've owned devices from Motorola and most of the Asian manufacturers. Here's my conclusion: they all suck in the three categories we're discussing. Let's add a fourth category; product quality. Here's my quick assessment:
Samsung - Means well but gets caught up in their enormity. Their priority is clearly future sales but they generally tend to treat the existing customer base well. There are exceptions and the OG G-Tab update to ICS is a good one. By offering dozens of different s/w types on a single device they make their own life more difficult. Rolling out updates across regions is a cluster because of it. They have terrific warranty service and will pay roundtrip shipping for repairs and replace a device with a new one if parts aren't available. They suck at the number of accessories offered and making them available in a timely manner. Their products are generally well put together using premium components.
HTC - Has really been trying to get updates out more quickly and with better quality. The One X has been updated to three new Android versions and has gotten three new versions of Sense since March. In spite of that it still takes too long to get updates out and they've had some pretty bad s/w that's been deployed without being thoroughly tested. Their warranty service is hit or miss depending on region. The U.S. isn't too bad and they do seem to try to get things right. They have a really nice variety of accessories; good luck trying to find them in stock anywhere. Their products are made from premium components but they've had a lot of QC issues with their latest devices. Good examples are extremely well made. They don't provide warranty support for devices that have had their bootloaders unlocked.
LG - Their support in the U.S. is atrocious and the rest of the world is a mixed bag. An alarming number of their products over the past two years have had design and h/w issues. Examples are overheating, spontaneous rebooting, boot loops, and sporadic wireless performance. Both the new Optimus G and N4 have thermal throttling issues so it doesn't seem like much has changed. The HTC Droid DNA has the same chip set and isn't experiencing similar issues. They are absolutely atrocious at updates. They offer few accessories and what's offered is impossible to find. Their devices are built well but it doesn't matter if they have fatal design flaws. The customer has to pay to ship a device to LG for repair.
Asus - They put more effort in to serving their existing customers than any other Android manufacturer. They are quick to update their devices, have representatives commenting on XDA, and try to address issues they're made aware of. Their warranty service is atrocious with frequent claims of "customer induced damage" for known issues. It can take weeks to get a device repaired and it's difficult to get an accurate status. Customers pay shipping to get the device to Asus. Their products are made from inferior and in some cases outdated components. They also have an abnormally high number of QC issues. The latter two elements along with crappy repair service sort of negate their customer service efforts. They offer a few basic accessories that seem to be generally more available compared to other manufacturers. When they introduce a new device its a cluster trying to find it and, because they're offered in multiple colors, finding the matching keyboard. They don't provide warranty support for devices that have had their bootloaders unlocked.
Sony - There are tied with LG for being worst at keeping their devices updated. I'm not familiar with their mobile device service but I've used them for PC service and they've been very responsive. Their products are generally well made but always seem to be a cycle behind everyone else design, feature and s/w wise. They tend to do well with offering accessories and making them readily available but they are very expensive.
Motorola - Their support of existing customers is tragic compared to the Asians. Even after Google acquired them they announced that late-2011 high-end devices that they promised upgrades to ICS for wouldn't be receiving them. They offered affected customers $100 off a future Motorola phone instead. They are also worse than the Asians at updates they do roll out. Their warranty and repair service is generally good. Their products are well made but MotoBlur is considered the worst of the overlays. It has been toned down on newer phones but is still far less complete than Sense or TW. They offer quite a few accessories but they are quite expensive. They are fairly easy to find. But in comparing Motorola to the Asians their complete lack of regard for existing customers makes them the worst of a bad lot. They don't provide warranty support for devices that have had their bootloaders unlocked.
So, at the end of the day, there aren't really any stand-out winners. Toshiba, Acer, and Lenovo are bit players based on the low volume of devices they sell so I haven't included them. From general observation they aren't typically known to be any better or worse than the companies I've described. So balancing all four criteria Samsung and HTC, IMHO, are the best of a bad lot (at least in the Android world). Since Samsung seems to be taking over the Android world any way we might not have to worry about comparisons for very much longer.
Thoughts? Personal experiences?
BarryH_GEG said:
The h/w business is almost entirely Asian with the exception of Apple, Nokia, and Motorola. We've discussed update priorities, accessory availability, and general attention to existing customer's needs. Only Motorola sells Android devices so it's them vs. the Asians if you want to draw a comparison. I've owned devices from Motorola and most of the Asian manufacturers. Here's my conclusion: they all suck in the three categories we're discussing. Let's add a fourth category; product quality. Here's my quick assessment:
...
So, at the end of the day, there aren't really any stand-out winners. Toshiba, Acer, and Lenovo are bit players based on the low volume of devices they sell so I haven't included them. From general observation they aren't typically known to be any better or worse than the companies I've described. So balancing all four criteria Samsung and HTC, IMHO, are the best of a bad lot (at least in the Android world). Since Samsung seems to be taking over the Android world any way we might not have to worry about comparisons for very much longer.
Thoughts? Personal experiences?
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Sounds like Samsung should hire Asus to support their products and Asus should get Samsung build their products.
Vincent9756 said:
Sounds like Samsung should hire Asus to support their products and Asus should get Samsung build their products.
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Click to collapse
Here's the difference between Asus and Samsung/HTC when it comes to updates. Asus is the hands-down winner for getting updates out the door the fastest. But in doing so, it takes at least three subsequent updates to make the initial update complete. Samsung and HTC are painfully slow but (usually) the updates they get out are pretty solid. By that time, because Asus had to update the update multiple times, they arrive at the same place at the same time. Kind of a "tortoise vs. the hare" thing.
BarryH_GEG said:
The h/w business is almost entirely Asian with the exception of Apple, Nokia, and Motorola. We've discussed update priorities, accessory availability, and general attention to existing customer's needs. Only Motorola sells Android devices so it's them vs. the Asians if you want to draw a comparison. I've owned devices from Motorola and most of the Asian manufacturers. Here's my conclusion: they all suck in the three categories we're discussing. Let's add a fourth category; product quality. Here's my quick assessment:
...
So, at the end of the day, there aren't really any stand-out winners. Toshiba, Acer, and Lenovo are bit players based on the low volume of devices they sell so I haven't included them. From general observation they aren't typically known to be any better or worse than the companies I've described. So balancing all four criteria Samsung and HTC, IMHO, are the best of a bad lot (at least in the Android world). Since Samsung seems to be taking over the Android world any way we might not have to worry about comparisons for very much longer.
Thoughts? Personal experiences?
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Click to collapse
I agree. I wasn't actually making a 'Western vs Asian' comparison - although rereading what I wrote, it does come across that way. Unfortunately, Apple is kind of the bar for support, quality and attention to detail, even with their recent decline in all three areas.
But my experiences with HP, for example - with their Slate 500 was odd - they had delivery problems, but they really went the extra mile to make up for it. In fact, in my own case, they ended up giving me almost a 30% discount for being late. I didn't even ask for it. They did screw up by choosing n-Trig for the digitiser - but at the time, it seemed a logical choice.
I only have one major experience with Dell - I bought an Axion Windows Mobile PDA that failed. They sent me a box in which to return it at no cost... and a new unit along with the box - also at no cost.
Of course, I have a Transformer Prime - and it's such a mixed bag of hurt and happy. As you note - the device feels right - and they got a lot right about it. It has the best USB driver support of any tablet out there. It provides enough USB power to run a hard drive. The dock is brilliant. And then they mess up something as basic as the GPS, WiFi and Bluetooth. And I think most of us could have dealt with that - if Asus hadn't utterly botched their response to the problem by essentially admitting the problem, then failing to fix it, then claiming the GPS wasn't meant for serious use (commerical GPS? What?) then trying to erase history by removing the feature from the box, then sending everyone a free GPS dongle that was just horribly thought out... and didn't fix the WiFi or BT issues. To add insult to injury - they announce a replacement pair of Transformers with the problem fixed... just two weeks after finally shipping the Prime - which was late. But the Infinity was supposed to be $100 more (which kind of took some of the pain away) - only to finally ship at the exact same price as the Prime.
Oh.. and then just after getting the dongle, the Prime's back camera died and that took a month to get repaired...
That's a lot of bad PR and bad customer support in one ball of hurt.
I bought an HTC Surround - the design made it impossible to remove the back without holding the screen which is on a slider. I sent it back after just two months of ownership because after upgrading to WP7.5 the screen started to act oddly.They claimed that the strain on the screen damaged it and refused to repair or replace it under warranty - demanding $250.
Which brings us back to Apple for a moment - I bought an iPhone 3G and two weeks afters the warranty expired, the 3G radio fried. When I took it back, they refused service - but offered refurb replacement.. also for $250. I asked if I could pay extra and upgrade to the 3Gs, but they refused claiming that their agreement with the cellco prohibited that. You'll pardon me when I get annoyed at people who go on about how great Apple's customer support is and how 'they'll replace or repair broken devices, even if they're a little over warranty...' Riiiight.
So, yes, as much as I hate to say it - at the moment, Samsung is the least evil current choice....
But it's definitely not what I would call a great choice...
TheWerewolf said:
Apple is kind of the bar for support, quality and attention to detail, even with their recent decline in all three areas.
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I totally agree. Part of it is because Apple's a marketing culture. They have always believed that pulling customers in with an excellent experience (h/w, s/w, content, support) and not relegating the control of the experience to others would lead them to loyalty, advocacy, scale, and profit. Looking at their market cap you can't argue with their approach. But their stock's dropped 20% since September while Samsung's been selling record numbers of devices and reeling in record profits. Samsung is no Apple and I don't think they'd ever be able to adapt that culture. But Apple's begun to bore people by sticking to their formula while everyone else is offering bolder more individualized experiences. The aging of Apple's demographic and adoption of Android by younger market segments doesn't bode well for Apple's future. At some point they are going to have to do something interesting and it isn't making the iPhone's display taller. Remember their famous "1984" commercial and the "think different" campaign? They've become what they used to parody.
I'm from Australia and thought much the same particularly with accessory availability. Then I moved to kenya of all places. Here Samsung is the undisputed champion. Nobody has an Iphone. Everyone has Samsung. Accessories are everywhere. All the major Supermarkets have a phone shop inside them and nearly all carry accessories en masse.
It makes an enormous difference to the functionality and usefulness of the product when you can do things like plug a flash drive into it or plug it into your TV. There are also many dedicated Samsung shops around the place. Although for some reason they seem to get the products later than the other retailers.
Samsung can definitely get it right in certain regions. I'm not sure why it struggles in others
Sent from my GT-N8000 using xda app-developers app
Simple, its what the public wants... Or thinks it wants...
Samsung have started to push out adverts here in Oz, especially S3 and SGNote 10.1, now when you rarely ever used to see their phones advertised. Apple was everywhere...
The shops are simply responding to what the customers want... Everyone was buying apple products, so naturally you stock Apple accessories with a few other brand accessories too. But if the lions share of customers want Apple products, why would you stock with only a few Apple accessories and have a whole heap of stuff you can't sell because the perceived market isn't there? That would be, from a sellers point of view, madness...
Until public opinion and buying habits shift noticeably then we are stuck with shops full of Crapple merchandise. When Android becomes a major seller, this is where standardisation is good, then we'll see the stock move to that area instead as profit drops for Apple stock... Unfortunately there's still a perception among retailers that Apple is an easy sell... That and the fact that there are a million different types of android tablet and phones out in the world, and there's only so many things they are prepared to stock while generally all Apple stuff fit or was useable by all apple customers... Until Iphone 5 that is...
The issue as I have always understood it has many sides. First Apple builds their OS for their devices, no one else gets it no other hardware can run it so they only have to optimize and remove features based on the generation of the device (3GS, 4, 4S, etc) and what will and won't work.
Now for Android OEM's they have a couple of challenges. First Google makes the OS and unless you are chosen for a Nexus launch you won't get the new OS in its finished state until after that (don't recall when JB 4.1.1 came out) so they have to wait.
Then the OEM's have to decide which devices can and cannot run the software based on the crippled (carrier specified hardware in the USA) so devices that are less than a year old get screwed over (HTC 2012 and 2011). Then they have to make sure their drivers work since not ever one of their phones (and tablets) uses the same processor or family of processors so we have Texas Instruments, Qualcomm, Samsung, Intel, etc. Then the priority is always given to the latest hardware going out the door since you want your newest hardware to (hopefully) be running the most current OS you had in the pipeline, or in our case JB 4.1.1. Then they start to update for devices they can support.
Now what I see as a huge issue and is the heart of fragmentation is Google's failure to set standards and timelines from both the OEM's and Carriers (USA are the offenders here) to deliver the OS updates. Google should be collaborating with the OEM's to enforce software rollouts. They could also put forth some type of awareness campaign to insure users are in the know and can have an expectation from their carrier and OEM that they will get that update. Oh wait that was the Android Alliance crap announced last year that did ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.
For me I would be fine with my GN 10.1 and soon GN 2 running some iteration of JellyBean hopefully 4.2 so it has the enhanced security features etc.
BarryH_GEG said:
I totally agree. Part of it is because Apple's a marketing culture. They have always believed that pulling customers in with an excellent experience (h/w, s/w, content, support) and not relegating the control of the experience to others would lead them to loyalty, advocacy, scale, and profit. Looking at their market cap you can't argue with their approach. But their stock's dropped 20% since September while Samsung's been selling record numbers of devices and reeling in record profits. Samsung is no Apple and I don't think they'd ever be able to adapt that culture. But Apple's begun to bore people by sticking to their formula while everyone else is offering bolder more individualized experiences. The aging of Apple's demographic and adoption of Android by younger market segments doesn't bode well for Apple's future. At some point they are going to have to do something interesting and it isn't making the iPhone's display taller. Remember their famous "1984" commercial and the "think different" campaign? They've become what they used to parody.
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Just gotta say: iCustomers are snobby, horribly wretched, self-absorbed "high designer" wanna-be's. Apple's hw is far from impeccable, the sw is strangling. They're good at glamour (making something appear far better than it actually is). Samsung is unfortunately trying to cut into that crowd, and I think they'd do better to provide a strong counter position: a tablet that lasts for years instead of 6 months. A phone that makes it to the next upgrade cycle (like the gNex).
Early 20th century design principles (built to last decades-- ie heirloom quality) should be a global standard....yes I know I'm pipe dreaming here....
Apple IMO has made it difficult for Samsung to really get behind its own products in the US, but it's jot just apple, mobile device carriers have lobbied our government, fcc, and individual manufacturers to NOT release things like the p6800 or the n8000 because carriers want you to buy a phone AND a tablet with a data plan, not just a tabletnwith telephony hardware... so f***ing sick of our markets being manipulated by the big players, people don't even know that there ARE tablets available with telephony hw... blah...
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