Database Users

Omnia 7 - strange vertical lines on display

Hello,
I have noticed when I look to my display in more detail I can see strange vertical lines through it. It is not very visible but I can see it better when there is white color for example in mail application, or if I setup blue color for lock screen. I wonder if it's just caused by AMOLED technology or my HW is not ok. Is it same on your devices?
Thanks

emkovicz said:
Hello,
I have noticed when I look to my display in more detail I can see strange vertical lines through it. It is not very visible but I can see it better when there is white color for example in mail application, or if I setup blue color for lock screen. I wonder if it's just caused by AMOLED technology or my HW is not ok. Is it same on your devices?
Thanks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
what colour are the vertical lines? samsungs OLED screens have pentile technology which kinda sucks in my opinion. basicaly it simplifys the pixel structure quite a lot so that it has the same number if pixels but rather than each one being split into a red, blue, green section they have 2 parts each alternating between red green and blue green. i think advantages are that this makes the screen brighter and colours stronger but it also reduces sharpness and seems to make the pixels more visible. i might be wrong for your case but I didnt realise this when i got the phone. still would choose it for the amazing blacks, just a shame they done have normal pixel structure.
hope that helps

NikD1 said:
what colour are the vertical lines? samsungs OLED screens have pentile technology which kinda sucks in my opinion. basicaly it simplifys the pixel structure quite a lot so that it has the same number if pixels but rather than each one being split into a red, blue, green section they have 2 parts each alternating between red green and blue green. i think advantages are that this makes the screen brighter and colours stronger but it also reduces sharpness and seems to make the pixels more visible. i might be wrong for your case but I didnt realise this when i got the phone. still would choose it for the amazing blacks, just a shame they done have normal pixel structure.
hope that helps
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks. But I think it's not pentile technology. It looks like tiny straight scratches more visible on top part of the display especially visible on bright color,s for example when I use green for lock screen. I will return it to my seller and hopefully they will fix it or give me a new one.

I noticed it on my Focus, as did Engadget in their Nexus S review:
http://www.engadget.com/2010/12/10/nexus-s-review/
We did see some strange issues with the display -- while it does look handsome in most settings, we noticed some troubling inconsistencies in the panel against certain colors or tones. It was particularly pronounced on solid gray backgrounds (as you can see above). We're not sure the cause of the problem (or if it was simply an issue with the device we had), but it was somewhat troubling.
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Can't decide which bothers me more though, the lines or the fact that the screen dynamically dims itself based the amount of white pixels that are displayed on screen.

I can't see those in my omnia, maybe it's only present in some of the panels?

ricep said:
I can't see those in my omnia, maybe it's only present in some of the panels?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It was quite visible in Game hub mostly on top part of the display. Or try to setup your lock screen to green.

I've noticed this on mine too. I'm wondering if it's just a bit of image retention from the live tiles on the home screen, much like you get on plasma screens. I've got a photo frame app which I'm using as a screen saver for a couple of mins each day to 'clean' the screen.
It may do nothing, but it's worth a try

emkovicz said:
It was quite visible in Game hub mostly on top part of the display. Or try to setup your lock screen to green.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
cant say i can see any lines in the game hub but the green really seems to make the pixels more visible on the white 'games' writing at the top

My Guess would be that this too is due to the PenTile Matrix used by Samsungs Super AMOLED Screens. As the green occurs more often but only at half the size this might lead to this effect:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Nexus_one_screen_microscope.jpg
Sometimes I'm tempted to dub the Display a Super Lame-OLED but only until I see the colors next to a non OLED Display.

StevieBallz said:
My Guess would be that this too is due to the PenTile Matrix used by Samsungs Super AMOLED Screens. As the green occurs more often but only at half the size this might lead to this effect:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Nexus_one_screen_microscope.jpg
Sometimes I'm tempted to dub the Display a Super Lame-OLED but only until I see the colors next to a non OLED Display.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's interesting. My problem looked like those tiny green vertical lines on your picture, but mine had grey colour and were very visible on top part of the display, in the center I could barely notice them. The other thing is that I should see them very close to each other but in my case they were 2-3 milimeters far away from each other, which convinced me that my HW is broken. Also when I showed it to the seller he advised me to send it back for repair.

[ANALYSIS] ASUS Eee Pad Transformer screen measurements

Hi guys!
As you know EeePad Transformer has quite a capable screen, with excellent viewing angles and good response time.
I just wrote an application to ease screen measurements, Free on market and Open Source, named Screen Test Patterns
But you might ask why its color look desaturated despite its correct contrast ratio.
I measure mine at 593:1.
All this explains when looking at the measurement graphs.
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Luminance​
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Click to collapse
Target 2.2 Gamma is the white curve.
Almost every color are displayed brighter than it should, which results in washed out colors.
Red curve is also brighter than Green and Blue ones, that makes the colors looks a bit reddish.
At almost white there is some clipping, fortunately quite minor.
Gamma​
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Click to collapse
Consequence of the luminance curve, the gamma curve is very far from following 2.2 reference line as it should.
Average on this screen is gamma 2, which explains by itself the washed out colors (even if it's not the only factor)
Near Black
Near white​
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Near black there is no clipping but the screen uses a common trick to increase the visual contrast, by lowering the luminance of the darkest values (its called black point compensation)
That's not pure 2.2 nor fits to the sRGB model, but it's a nice detail improving the visual result IMHO.
Near white thing's are not right, there is some clipping. Means values 252, 253, 254 and 255 gives the same output. Not terrible in its amount but never welcomed.

Now about colors:
RGB Levels (compared to 6500K)​
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Here is individual Red Green and Blue channels values compared to what they should be to get a 2.2 gamma response at D65 / 6500K which is the industry standard for content display (web, videos)
Color Temperature​
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Click to collapse
Color temperature is mostly between 7500K and 8000K, but that's just numbers.
The most important in this graph is its linearity.
As you can see the white balance shifts to blueish in low between 0 and 15% gray.
This is because the black point of this screen (which is not black obviously) has not the same color characteristics as the other grays.
This screen doesn't really shines in this area, but its the case of most LCDs so there's nothing to worry here.
Still, it explains why dark grays look a bit blue.
Saturation Lumiance​
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Saturation Luminance graph allows to detect artificial color boosting like by an image processing
This graph shows that the luminance of colors are fairly linear. Not perfect due to screen hardware limitations, but okay.
Only notable is Greens and Yellows which are often lighter than then should. Once again it reinforce the lack of color punch, especially since its the colors our eye is the most sensitive to.
Saturation Shifts​
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
100% Saturation is pure Red/Green/Blue/Yellow/Cyan/Magenta
This graph shows how much saturated are colors which are not at 100% saturation level (every non primary or secondary colors)
This graph shows that Red and Green colors lack saturation the most.
Blue saturation is a bit higher than it should in general.
I must admit I have no explanation why Cyan saturation is measured so high. It may demonstrate the presence of some sort of processing, but probably I don't understand the graph well enough yet.
CIE Diagram​
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And here is finally the famous CIE Diagram.
The latest explanation for the dull color is here: you can see the gamut is a bit small compared to the reference sRGB behind.
A smaller gamut has for consequence less vibrant colors.
Blue is okay, still lacks some extend, but Red and Green extension is lacking, as perceived by naked eye.
The additional dots show the screen is not affected by any color conversion distortion.

Wow, nice analysis there! I'm planning on getting a Transformer this fall for light school work stuff for ultra portability and long battery life.
So does this mean you are working on a Voodoo Color for the Transformer IPS panel?

jamesnmandy said:
Wow, nice analysis there! I'm planning on getting a Transformer this fall for light school work stuff for ultra portability and long battery life.
So does this mean you are working on a Voodoo Color for the Transformer IPS panel?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You're welcome.
Transformer Kernel has no trace of any drivers nor hardware capable of color correction.
It's not impossible Tegra2 display controller has a LUT but still unlikely as no Tegra2 device I saw offer "color vibrance" control or things like that integrated in their PC hardware and drivers.
At the contrary, Galaxy Tab 10.1 which is also Tegra2 adds another screen controller with a very advanced color correction engine (implementing even things like sharpening, noise reduction, dynamic contrast, chroma channels adjustments), not available in Transformer hardware.
Tegra2 is not especially documented.
Honeycomb is closed source (for a potential OpenGL engine)
So no not planned so far, it's just an analysis in order to better understand what/how/why, and have fun with the tool I just wrote.

Well written analysis. Although I don't have a transformer (maybe wait for newer generations?), I really appreciate your approach in the refinement of sound and visual on our android devices. Your measurements and analyses are some of the most, if not the most, detailed and informative ones that laymen like me will be able to obtain and comprehend. Thank you.

Great analysis.
Just a question: did you run the analysis on a B60 or B50?
In my experience, having owned the two, B50 has a very cold display, (as in your finding) while B60 is much warmer and pretty close to my calibrated monitor.

wis38 said:
Great analysis.
Just a question: did you run the analysis on a B60 or B50?
In my experience, having owned the two, B50 has a very cold display, (as in your finding) while B60 is much warmer and pretty close to my calibrated monitor.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Oh really there are several screen revisions with different color characteristics? (only backlight or more profound?)
I'm not sure what you cakll B60 or B50. If it's about the serial number, mine is partially wiped from the bottom transparent sticker, but its seems its:
B40KAS057442 12
The screen on my device is a bit cool but looks pinkish despite what the T° in Kevlin would say.
I'm not totally confident in the temperature reading of my colorimeters BTW, in some conditions.
Please tell me all that you know about different screen revisions
Anyway it makes sense there are several screen revisions because my measurement don't match in terms of temperature DisplayMate ones.

supercurio said:
It's not impossible Tegra2 display controller has a LUT but still unlikely as no Tegra2 device I saw offer "color vibrance" control or things like that integrated in their PC hardware and drivers.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Only just found this thread. Man, if accurate, that's seriously disappointing. Did you ever get any reply on Twitter from Nvidia re LUT info or documentation?

What ever happened to PenTile?

Before I begin, I just want to start by pointing out that I have never really been an advocate of PenTile, at least not in the way it actually turned out (RGBG). However, I would have liked to have seen what true (prototype) PenTile display would have looked like.
You see, as the "Pent" in PenTile suggests, the original design for a PenTile display included five sub-pixels rather than the two that it currently sports today; two each for red and green, and one in the centre for blue. This would have been truly awesome to see in person, but as far as I know, no device actually does this; it's always the cheapo crappy RGBG sub-pixel arrangement instead.
So this brings me to the question of the topic: What ever happened to (true) PenTile? The kind that uses five sub-pixels instead of two (or the three of RGB).
Can anyone provide some insight here?
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It's a very problematic matrix, more subpixels per pixel also means more power drain, and in the case of AMOLED's- a lot more power drain+degredation problem of the blue pixels.
In addition to that, it's not so easy to just stack up so many subpixels in one pixel, you'll have to lower the screen's resolution to make it possible.
Personally, i'm happy with RGB, and i think they found a really elegant solution for the blue pixel problem in the Note 2.

My dear friend, you need to ask this question to some screen expert or manufacturer
I personally don't know what's the point of your question? As we don't even have anything to compare with.
If you want to compare something, your reference is everything.
Sent from my GT-N7100

Jade Eyed Wolf said:
So this brings me to the question of the topic: What ever happened to (true) PenTile? The kind that uses five sub-pixels instead of two (or the three of RGB).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My guess would be that the rectangular grid was simply much more cost effective. and we all know $$$ talks
- Frank

The inventor of PenTile answers...
Jade Eyed Wolf said:
Before I begin, I just want to start by pointing out that I have never really been an advocate of PenTile, at least not in the way it actually turned out (RGBG). However, I would have liked to have seen what true (prototype) PenTile display would have looked like.
You see, as the "Pent" in PenTile suggests, the original design for a PenTile display included five sub-pixels rather than the two that it currently sports today; two each for red and green, and one in the centre for blue. This would have been truly awesome to see in person, but as far as I know, no device actually does this; it's always the cheapo crappy RGBG sub-pixel arrangement instead.
So this brings me to the question of the topic: What ever happened to (true) PenTile? The kind that uses five sub-pixels instead of two (or the three of RGB).
Can anyone provide some insight here?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My name is Candice Elliott. I'm the CEO of Nouvoyance. I was the founder of Clairvoyante... and was the inventor of the original PenTile layout and algorithms.
The original layout has yet to gain traction due to the discomfort display design engineers felt with having to use diagonal edged subpixels. It also was "too early" in the sense that the original PenTile quincunx subpixel rendering allows the reconstruction of each logical pixel with only 1.25 subpixels per pixel (on average... more are used but are shared among logical pixels). Thus, the resolution of the system must be very high to be in the recommended range. We are only now entering that range of 400PPI+. Anything lower, and this layout will use too few subpixels and will have pattern visibility. Perhaps in the future, as resolutions continue to climb, the original PenTile will be chosen?
Another commenter, wrongly, suggested that PenTile increased the power drain... the opposite is true. PenTile lowers the power drain on LCD displays, but is exactly the same on OLED. In OLED, the reduction from 3 subpixels per logical pixel (on average and fixed) to 2 subpixels per logical pixel (on average) reduces the wasted black area between subpixels, allowing larger subpixels that may be driven at a lower current density for the same light output... slowing down the aging process of the OLED material, giving the display a longer useful lifetime.
I hope this answered your question?

This is the kind of answers that i was talking about (i didn't understand all the details) but i think it's better than arguing with ignorance.
Sent from my GT-N7100

Displaygeek, the original poster talked about pixels with 5 subpixels per pixel.
You do agree that having 5 subpixels per logical pixel will increase the power drain, especially on OLED screens, right? I never suggested otherwise.

There isn't an advantage to 5 pixels per sub-pixel as more smaller pixels use more power than fewer larger pixels. The idea behind pentile is to extract similar image quality from fewer sub-pixels reducing power, space between pixels and easing manufacture.
A great article on pentile and what its all about: http://www.nouvoyance.com/technology-oled.html
Sent from my GT-N7100 using Tapatalk 2

DisplayGeek said:
My name is Candice Elliott. I'm the CEO of Nouvoyance. I was the founder of Clairvoyante... and was the inventor of the original PenTile layout and algorithms.
The original layout has yet to gain traction due to the discomfort display design engineers felt with having to use diagonal edged subpixels. It also was "too early" in the sense that the original PenTile quincunx subpixel rendering allows the reconstruction of each logical pixel with only 1.25 subpixels per pixel (on average... more are used but are shared among logical pixels). Thus, the resolution of the system must be very high to be in the recommended range. We are only now entering that range of 400PPI+. Anything lower, and this layout will use too few subpixels and will have pattern visibility. Perhaps in the future, as resolutions continue to climb, the original PenTile will be chosen?
Another commenter, wrongly, suggested that PenTile increased the power drain... the opposite is true. PenTile lowers the power drain on LCD displays, but is exactly the same on OLED. In OLED, the reduction from 3 subpixels per logical pixel (on average and fixed) to 2 subpixels per logical pixel (on average) reduces the wasted black area between subpixels, allowing larger subpixels that may be driven at a lower current density for the same light output... slowing down the aging process of the OLED material, giving the display a longer useful lifetime.
I hope this answered your question?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I couldn't have asked for a better answer! Thank you! I certainly do hope that some day, as you suggest, we will get to see the original PenTile design in some displays. I look forward to it!

[Q] Screen changes color saturation with brightness.

Hello.
So I've noticed a strange thing while adjusting the screen brightness manually. When you slide the brightness slider it seems like there are individual brightness steps. And each step affects the screen colors differently.
Try it yourself. Like when you slowly slide the brightness slider, focus on the quick toggles background. It changes color slightly with each brightness step. It's very slight and you got to be in a dark room to notice it.
Does it happen on your note 3 too? Is it normal or is mine defective?
Thanks

That's called physics.
Colour is nothing more than light. The less light, the less colour.
Ever noticed how your eyes see everything in black and white in the dark? How the world becomes more monotone whenever there is less less?
Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk 2

ShadowLea said:
That's called physics.
Colour is nothing more than light. The less light, the less colour.
Ever noticed how your eyes see everything in black and white in the dark? How the world becomes more monotone whenever there is less less?
Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't mean less colour, but different colour tint with nearly each brightness step, some brightness levels got green tint, some blue and some red. It's hard to explain you have to try it yourself.
It's best noticeable when you download some 3rd party brightness slider adjuster and adjust the brightness while seeing your homescreen and not the almost black notification panel.

ongbac said:
I don't mean less colour, but different colour tint with nearly each brightness step, some brightness levels got green tint, some blue and some red. It's hard to explain you have to try it yourself.
It's best noticeable when you download some 3rd party brightness slider adjuster and adjust the brightness while seeing your homescreen and not the almost black notification panel.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm using LUX. Right now I'm at -56%(My night setting) and the hue is slightly green. It always makes my blue SwiftKey keyboard a very peculiar sea-green.
Which is still perfectly normal.
You are aware that screens are composed of Red, Green and Blue LEDs?
And that brightness is determined by how much light is emitted by each LED?
Naturally each step will have a slightly different hue.
The three don't blend their light into one, there will always be one of the three LEDs that is the dominant colour.
Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk 2

ShadowLea said:
I'm using LUX. Right now I'm at -56%(My night setting) and the hue is slightly green. It always makes my blue SwiftKey keyboard a very peculiar sea-green.
Which is still perfectly normal.
You are aware that screens are composed of Red, Green and Blue LEDs?
And that brightness is determined by how much light is emitted by each LED?
Naturally each step will have a slightly different hue.
The three don't blend their light into one, there will always be one of the three LEDs that is the dominant colour.
Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah I know AMOLEDs are made of tiny green blue and red subpixels.
So in conclusion this is normal? Is this just another disadvantage of AMOLEDs display?
Thanks

I too have noticed this. However you will need another smartphone in order to see the difference. This is what I did and this is how I know that there is a slight tint.

ongbac said:
Yeah I know AMOLEDs are made of tiny green blue and red subpixels.
So in conclusion this is normal? Is this just another disadvantage of AMOLEDs display?
Thanks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, it's normal.
It's more a disadvantage of the Diamond Subpixel configuration. AMOLED isn't at fault, it's the matrix configuration Samsung uses that causes this.
It features size difference in the three colours. As you change the brighness, one colour will overpower the other. The S4 and S5 have the same configuration, as does the Note 4.
Which looks like this:
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Keydas said:
I too have noticed this. However you will need another smartphone in order to see the difference. This is what I did and this is how I know that there is a slight tint.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah. I started noticing it after I saw this problem on the samsung galaxy s3 mini. It was alot more obvious on that device.
Without that I wouldn't even notice it on My note 3.

ShadowLea said:
Yes, it's normal.
It's more a disadvantage of the Diamond Subpixel configuration. AMOLED isn't at fault, it's the matrix configuration Samsung uses that causes this.
It features size difference in the three colours. As you change the brighness, one colour will overpower the other. The S4 and S5 have the same configuration, as does the Note 4.
Which looks like this:
Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Okay thanks for the explanation.

[Q] Note 4 display green tint ?

Wen i tilt the phone and white image is displayed there is slight green tint. Is this normal for an amoled screen and if not can i exchange my device because of this ? Thank you in advance.

Etern4ll said:
Wen i tilt the phone and white image is displayed there is slight green tint. Is this normal for an amoled screen and if not can i exchange my device because of this ? Thank you in advance.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
welcome to xda? o3o
I get more red than green, but it is only when I tilt my phone at a certain angle towards a light source - one which wouldn't allow me to see my screen properly anyways. It doesn't bother me at all during normal use though d: Sorry I can't give you any helpful information haha

JippleStar said:
welcome to xda? o3o
I get more red than green, but it is only when I tilt my phone at a certain angle towards a light source - one which wouldn't allow me to see my screen properly anyways. It doesn't bother me at all during normal use though d: Sorry I can't give you any helpful information haha
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you man.

What I saw on my and other notes is there is slightly blue or green shift when you look at angle. It doesn't bother me.. Not like flickering of brightness control....

Truth Behold, all AMOLED screens have a tint. Some will have pink tint, others will have a purple tint, some will have green tint, whereas others will have yellow tint. The tint should only be moderate, anything excessive is sure to be defective. These are inherit problems in AMOLED displays, some will not notice the tint as everyone's focal vision is different. Most unboxing videos from Day one will show the tint without the Reviewer's comments. The only reviewer that seems to comment on the hue is Erica Griffin. The newer AMOLED panels are still a lot better than the years before. Enjoy your Note 4.
Make sure your display is set to Adaptive Display for best results.

The custom kernel I'm using on my galaxy S4 has colour tuning built in. Are there not custom kernels for the note 4 that have this also?
Same with my old S1, and my old S2
Have a look through the custom kernel threads.
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Are you suggesting its just how the screens are calibrated?
knuckles1978 said:
The custom kernel I'm using on my galaxy S4 has colour tuning built in. Are there not custom kernels for the note 4 that have this also?
Same with my old S1, and my old S2
Have a look through the custom kernel threads.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

arjun90 said:
Are you suggesting its just how the screens are calibrated?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't know the cause of yours. The cause of mine is that the phone is a year old, and the blue pixels wear out faster than red and green, but tweaking the blue fixes it.
Just tweak the green down a bit on yours if you've got a kernel which can do it.
My screen looks horrible without tweaking the blue, and totally perfect with more blue added.
Edit: wait a second... It's perfect when looking at it straight on? Because that's normal if it changes a little when you turn the viewing angle. Only do calibration if it's got a tint when looking at it straight on.

Every Note 4 Owner has a tint somewhere on their display, whether its a pink tint, purple tint, blue tint, yellow tint, whatever the claim is; this is due to the fact of how these displays are calibrated. Viewing the screen from a particular angle usually corrects this, has nothing to do with the subpixel and life expectancy of certain colors on these latest AMOLED Panels. The Blues and Greens are now engineered to last long equally together in the current Note 4. The tint many are describing is to do with the gamma correction. Color accuracy is there, though based on the manufacturing dates the area of tint will vary. I was able to confirm this on '4' AT&T Note 4's all having the same pink tint in the same location. The AMOLED Panels in the Note 4's are far superior than its older gen panels.
It's good to know that there is a mod to adjust the amount of tint. Wish Samsung could have done this job on their end.
knuckles1978 said:
I don't know the cause of yours. The cause of mine is that the phone is a year old, and the blue pixels wear out faster than red and green, but tweaking the blue fixes it.
Just tweak the green down a bit on yours if you've got a kernel which can do it.
My screen looks horrible without tweaking the blue, and totally perfect with more blue added.
Edit: wait a second... It's perfect when looking at it straight on? Because that's normal if it changes a little when you turn the viewing angle. Only do calibration if it's got a tint when looking at it straight on.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

This is good to know.
Thanks for sharing