Database Users

What speed SD for the Universal?

I havent looked too deeply into this, preferring to ask like .. So please don't eat me.
Its late and all ..
I'm wondering what speed the SD card reader in the Universal is?
Is it worth spending a little extra on some 60x Corsair SD cards or should I just get the bargain bin stuff since the Universal maybe doesnt have a particularly quick card reader?
Any advice welcome. I plan to use this is a system disk with seperate 512 card for my MP3's and pod casts/documents. THAT will be cheap stuff.
But for the main I need a 1gb system disk for storing apps and system stuff.

Compared to a dedicated USB card reader for the PC, the Universal is extremely slow - I have tested this with my 150X 2GB SD card. So unless you plan on using it with a PC card reader, it doesn't really matter
Accessing the SD card through activesync was at least 10 times slower than the card reader...

I did a small test with Pocket Mechanic.
1. My "normal" 2 GB sandisk gives 0.84MB/sec
2. My super duper Extreme III Sandisk 1 GB gives me a whopping 0.88MB sec.
Nr . 2 card, in my portable, writes files much, much faster than nr.1.
You can see however that in my Jasjar the difference is nearly zero.
I would say: go for the cheapest, but I am not a great technician.
Huib

Thanks guys ..
Very informative and will help me get the right card. ie. the cheapest!
-Gubbs

Hi
I have not noticed any difference between a basic Sandisk card and a so called 66x KingMax card when used in the exec.
I do notice a difference between these two cards when using them with my digicam - the multishot mode (2 frames/sec) actually works cause the camera is able to write to the card quickly enough. With the slow card, cam kept pausing to write its cache onto the card.
I am not sure that pocket mechanic tells the truth! Likewise, timing a copy from the internal flash to an SD card is not gonna give accurate results (speed of internal flash may be bottleneck). On Wm2003 devices this was possible cause RAM is loads faster than flash still.
You cant test the speed of the SD reader in the exec over activesync tho!! Its a USB 1.1 device (max 11Mbit) and on top of that activesync treats it as a 10Mbit network card. Max you'll see after overheads is thus around 1MByte/sec
Nigel

veletron said:
Hi
You cant test the speed of the SD reader in the exec over activesync tho!! Its a USB 1.1 device (max 11Mbit) and on top of that activesync treats it as a 10Mbit network card. Max you'll see after overheads is thus around 1MByte/sec
Nigel
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Certainly much better to do it that way.
Huib

ok i m having problem to decide as well...
anyone has a more concrete data about this ?
i m thinking whether to choose a normal 66x or 133x ...
getting 2gb sd card.. either transcend or pretec...
by the way exec sd slot is 1.01 or 1.1 specification?
hope someone has a benchmark to share.. thanks

1gb Scandisk does the job for me.
Watched a movie on it the other night, perfect. Plenty fast enough.
Its HTC so you can be assured it will be genius design with cheap crap chipset.
Bit like an Italian sportscar.

get one of those sd-usb card combo's....if u can find one going at a decent price.
saves the hassle of card readers. the LAST thing anyone needs is yet another wire lol

HD2 USB transfer speeds?

I've looked everywhere. No one seems to have posted them. What are they?
Right now I'm a bit confused. Since this is an awesome device you'd think it would be fast in every aspect. It is, except for USB file transfers.
I'm running on Windows 7 Ultimate. I backed up everything from my phone to the computer with a data transfer rate from the SD card, in the phone, of 4.5MB/s. I then formatted the card (read earlier that this would help with the HD2 lock-ups) and copied everything back onto the SD card in the same fashion, through the phone. The data transfer back is right around 2.5 MB/s.... ???
I've tested all the ports around the computer, each are about the same. Anyone have any idea on how to fix this?

First thing would be to tell what kind and class of microSD card you have...

That would really depend on your SD card "class".
The higher the class, the faster it is capable of performing reading and writing operations.
But it's better to avoid the 16GB cards... the larger capacity cards take much longer to read... regardless of classifications or brand.
Something like a 4GB - Class 6 card is excellent.

I've read that it's only a class 2 MicroSD. Do you guys know where I can get class 4, or even a class 6 MicroSD? Whichever I get however depends on the max speed of the HD2. For example, I don't want to buy a class 6 and find out that the HD2 can only handle speeds up to the class 4. There is a $30-$40 USD difference.
Thanks for the SD info, it definitely helps. But now we're brought back to my original question. What are the max transfer speeds through the phone onto/from the MicroSD card? Has anyone found out?

personally i wouldn't do large data backups through activesync/MDC with the card still in the phone.
its simple to remove the card and put it in the supplied adapter card for use with sd_readers.
i bought a usb1.1 reader from a 'pound' shop, copying large files takes alot less time (average 10-11mb/sec) with my more expensive usb2.0 reader its even faster (average 50-60mb/sec)
card class does make a difference, but then so does sending large amounts of data through a 'middle man' like activesync or device center.
budget SD reader FTW

That is a good point, and I agree is faster than through the phone. For me though I have a few accessories on the phone which make taking the SD card out quite a pain.
I have an invisishield on the screen, and a poly-something or other high density plastic cover to replace the cover that came with the phone,-- It grips around the HD2 tightly. The cover is wonderful, but it tends to interfere with the invisishield. So if I am continually taking the cover on and off to get the SD card out I will eventually bend up the edges of the invisishield and will need to get that replaced.
In my best attempts to keep the phone nice I'm going to have to stick with whatever input/output the HD2-to/from-SD can give me.

choosing disk drive mode rather than active sync is the easiest way to speed up file transfers.
re: the figures you gave in post 1, write is always slower than read.

Forgot to mention, it was in 'disk drive mode'.
Btw, I found that the HTC HD2 is USB 2.0 Hi-Speed capable out-of-box. (I'd post a link, but forums wont let me, being new), and Hi-Speed USB can transfer 480Mbits/s, or ~57MB/s (Wikipedia, Universal Serial Bus, Signaling).
The Class 6 MicroSD card can write 48Mbits/s, or 6MB/s (Wikipedia, Secure Digital, Speeds). Easily obtained for the HD2.
Assuming this is everything that needs to be dealt with, this should work out wonderfully. I'll be writing files 300% faster with a class 6, and reading a whole lot faster (thanks Samsamuel, forgot about that read/write differences). Question is though, is this all? Or do I need to install some hi-speed usb driver on the computer? Or are there other things I'm not seeing that need to be dealt with?

its also worth remembering when you are doing the maths that USB loses around 25/35% to networking overhead. (the data that makes up the packet that holds the data you are transferring)
So, 480 Mbit = 60MBytes total = around 35Mbytes actual data transferred per second. (Results vary depending on the system, the cable, all kinds of things, but 30-35 is average, a little more in a testbed situation.

So I guess I'll just have to suffer with 219% faster instead of 300%... Well, looks like I'm returning the HD2!

help with cabs on new sd card

Just received a 32Gb sd card and copied over all my files and cabs etc.
But when trying to reinstall the .cabs to my storage card and keep getting this message "installation of .cab was unsuccessful" ?????
has anyone got any ideas? I have had to go back to my sd card?

didn't think there was any decent 32gig cards available yet, did you format the card in your phone first?

The correct procedure (which I did only last evening with my new Sandisk 32GB mSD, it will take approx. 2hrs. depending on capacity and content of old mSD - mine had full 15,5GB):
1. Put back old SD-card
2. Switch HD 2 into flight mode (!!!!)
3. Connect to PC in HARDDISK Mode (not ActiveSync)
4. Open mSD card on PC and make ALL files accessible (also system-files etc.)
5. Copy entire content of old mSD to a fgolder on the PC
6. Disconnect HD2 from PC
7. Switch HD2 off and place new 32GB mSD into HD2
8. Switch HD2 ON
9. Check if mSD is recognized and shows right capacity (29-31 GB depending)
(EDIT: 10. Format mSD with format-prog in Settings-menu. HD2 STILL IN FLIGHT MODE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (EDIT!!!: MAYBE BY FORMATTING YOU COULD GOOF THE CARD, SO BEST IS TO USE IT AS IT IS RIGHT OUT OF THE BOX !!!! AND TRY TO FORMAT IT ONLY IN CASE IT DOES NOT WORK PROPERLY OUT OF THE BOX !!!!!!!!!)
11. Connect HD2 again in Harddisk-Mode to PC
12. Copy all files from backup-folder of PC to the new mSD
13. Disconnect HD2 from PC
14. Switch HD2 OFF
15. Restart and enjoy Your new richdom of mem-space
DO NOT ACTIVATE ANY RADIO (GSM, 3G, HSDPA, WIFI DURING ENTIRE PROCEDURE !!!!!!! It might brick Your new expensive mSD-card cause WM once in while writes to it creating funny disorders on the new card.)
After restarting with new mSD there might be a "services.exe"-error. Switch off again and switch on again. No error-message any more.
I strongly recommend to invest 24 bucks for pocket mechanic or SKTools (I prefer PM but have both running). It helps You to optimize Your entire HD2 and evaporate all crap accumulated when playing around with install and del of mods and apps. Makes WM pretty stable and snappy

troed thank you, but i am still having problems????
i have a games folder with cabs in and when i copy them over they dont even show and a few other folders have become like encryted??? cant open them or delete them ??? maybe the card is faulty????

Most problems with uSD cards seem to be caused by low capacity fakes being sold as high capacity branded cards.
I'd suggest checking it with h2testw - or alternatively if your new 32GB uSD card isn't a sandisk card bought from a reputable retailer for a lot of money, you don't need to test it to know that it's fake.

antilagman said:
troed thank you, but i am still having problems????
i have a games folder with cabs in and when i copy them over they dont even show and a few other folders have become like encryted??? cant open them or delete them ??? maybe the card is faulty????
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, andyfoster could be right .....
I always buy my SD and mSD cards (only Sandisk) either at amazon, expansys or mobilefun and never ever had a single problem with them (e.g. I also run 32GB SD and MemStick in my Vaio).
Once I bought a Pretec 128GB SSD Express Card for the Vaio, filled it with read only files ...... worked ........... but when I wanted to check the content the SSD was dead/bricked.
What else could it be theoretically ?
Once I bought a Kingston DataTraveler-USB-Stick 64 GB and wanted to fill it with vid-files. In copy process it got stuck so I formatted it and now I have only 32GB available.
Why ?
As delivered the 64GBstick was formatted FAT 32, allowing only files less than 4GB saved onto it. This my fault then. One vid-files was 6 GB and gave an error. But when I destroyed the original format from Kingston with my formatting I lost half of the capacity with no workaround left.
What do I wann say with this ?
I don´t know if THAT could be the case, but MAYBE these high cap-SDs do have a special "Factory-format" that should not be changed ! When I received my 32GB mSD IT WORKED PERFECT OUT OF THE BOX ! I did no format. But, honestly, since it is a lill bit expensive I don´t wanna experiment with formatting it now.
But MAYBE it is a fake-card ..................

Yes, the first thing to know is how much you paid for the card and what brand it is... we've seen "ORIGINAL KINGSTON 32GB MICROSD CARD NO FAKE!!!1!ONE" on ebay, when Kingston never manufactured a single 32GB card yet...

This is a sandisk by the way, (well it says sandisk on it ) and its funny you mentioned the format? it is formated wth the name fat32 hhmmmm and i am trying to put 13gb of stuff on it???, I have reformatted it again last night it took hours?? I might try again and if not i will just have to have a replacement?
after trying again, i notice this error regarding certain file names are to long??? and also if i create a folder and name it vids or movies it automaticly puts folders in side which cannot be opened or deleted? and the folders name will be ".?:-~~{"
its got to be the card right?

I have returned the card and asked for a replacement?

troed said:
Well, andyfoster could be right .....
I always buy my SD and mSD cards (only Sandisk) either at amazon, expansys or mobilefun and never ever had a single problem with them (e.g. I also run 32GB SD and MemStick in my Vaio).
Once I bought a Pretec 128GB SSD Express Card for the Vaio, filled it with read only files ...... worked ........... but when I wanted to check the content the SSD was dead/bricked.
What else could it be theoretically ?
Once I bought a Kingston DataTraveler-USB-Stick 64 GB and wanted to fill it with vid-files. In copy process it got stuck so I formatted it and now I have only 32GB available.
Why ?
As delivered the 64GBstick was formatted FAT 32, allowing only files less than 4GB saved onto it. This my fault then. One vid-files was 6 GB and gave an error. But when I destroyed the original format from Kingston with my formatting I lost half of the capacity with no workaround left.
What do I wann say with this ?
I don´t know if THAT could be the case, but MAYBE these high cap-SDs do have a special "Factory-format" that should not be changed ! When I received my 32GB mSD IT WORKED PERFECT OUT OF THE BOX ! I did no format. But, honestly, since it is a lill bit expensive I don´t wanna experiment with formatting it now.
But MAYBE it is a fake-card ..................
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
what follows is unrelated to the main topic in this thread...
about the bold part in your post above...i thought i should tell you that there IS a workaround!
fact is that FAT32 is a file system in which a single file cannot be larger than 4GB. you should have gotten an error from explorer BEFORE even a single byte of the 6GB file was written.
more importantly, you should know that FAT32 fully supports very large partitions like 100GB, etc (at the cost of slower performance and/or wastage due to large cluster size at that capacity). what most people conclude is that it SEEMS like you can only create up to 32GB FAT32 partitions "at home" while larger sized FAT32 partitions can only be "created in a factory format". this misconception is entirely because the disk management in windows 2000, XP, Vista, and 7 enforce this limit when formatting!
google it and you will see that it is just an arbitrary limit by microsoft and these same operating systems have NO PROBLEMS reading/writing FAT32 partitions greater than 32GB. once again, it is JUST an arbitrary limitation of the default formatting routines shipped with windows. there is a great little tool (i forget the name of the program but its executable is called "guiformat.exe") that will allow you to format FAT32 greater than 32GB.
all of the above got me thinking about something though...it seems that manufacturers have chosen FAT32 as the de facto standard for most mobile devices with removable card storage (like smartphones, digital cameras, mp3 players, etc), likely because of FAT32's lack of complexities like security and the standard's relative "openness" compared to that of NTFS, for example. makes me wonder about the nice surprise people will start to have once greater than 32GB cards become available and when people will attempt to format them with windows, expecting everything to go smoothly...but oh the horror when windows won't let them format greater than 32GB. good times ahead!

USB transfer speed

I'm using the:
MDJs_CyanogenMod7_v.2.3_NAND_A2SD+
And a 8gig class-4 SD
When transferring files of 1-2gig the transfer rate drops to
around 800Kb/sec. So a 1 gig file takes up to 20min.
On the stock WinMo 6.5 it goes 5 times faster.
What can i do to speed this up?
1) Does a different android rom help?
2) Revert back to Android SD instead of NAND?
3) Can i do something on the PC to speed things up?

transfers significantly faster with mac
I have noticed that Mac computers transfer files to the external sd card on Andriod phones significantly faster.
1GB transfer on Windows machine takes about 30 min and the same transfer with a Mac is about 5 min. Both are with the external SD card mounted as a drive. The SD card is a class 10 32 GB. The phone is a Samsung S2.
What gives? Does anyone have an idea why this is happening?
Does anyone have a suggestion on what I can do to speed up the Windows transfers?

Yea, i noticed, with my phone at least, that file transfers usually go a lot slower when Smaller files are being transferred as oppressed to big ones.
In my card reader, it would go about 800k for a large group of 10kb and shoot up to 8-9mb. On my phone, the fastest i remembered it going was about 6-8mb/s. Try reformatting changing allocation unit size to 32k. The only problem is that it will waste like 20mb (guessing) by the time its filed up. Its feels it bit faster but i don't really notice most of the time.
If you do it, don't forget to back up!

Samsung 32GB class10 only 5MB/s

i bought this new card and was happy that i have a fast card now and that the transferring data with usb connection would be faster, but it is not.
The writing speed is between 3-5 MB/s, not better then my old Sandisk 16gb class2 card.
I have aMAGLDR v1.13 with CWM v.5.0.2.7.
I use the usb mount from CWM and transfer data through it, but it is really a disappointment. I format the card through different ways, all without any success.
On the my computer the card is not faster with FAT32 (with the micro sd adapter), when i format the card to NTFS it is really fast, but i can not use it on my phone with NTFS. Is Fat32 the problem here?
Does someone have the same card and could approve this problems or am i the only one?
thanks in advance /masteroe

try this..
get into android and see if this app works...it will increase the cache...you should see difference..

thanks, i tried this already without any success.
it seems that the problem is not this value. In the CWM this value is not interesting at all.
As i told you on Windows i have same performance issues with FAT32....

If you bought your SD card from Ebay you probably bought a fake Class 10

domimatik said:
If you bought your SD card from Ebay you probably bought a fake Class 10
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
it is not from the bay it is a original card (i hope) from amazon.

Class 10 only assures you of 10MB/S on sequential write, so if the card has been written to a few times there could be some drop due to fragmentation. Also, there are various overheads to consider, moving the data about, issuing the write command to each block, wait for a confirmed write response, blahblah.
Here
http://www.smxrtos.com/articles/whiteppr/flashperformance.htm
Is a (very) technical explanation, which rather happily (or not) examines a 10MB/S raw write speed SD as an example (scroll way down) and calculates an actual write speed at 5MB/S.

samsamuel said:
Class 10 only assures you of 10MB/S on sequential write, so if the card has been written to a few times there could be some drop due to fragmentation. Also, there are various overheads to consider, moving the data about, issuing the write command to each block, wait for a confirmed write response, blahblah.
Here
http://www.smxrtos.com/articles/whiteppr/flashperformance.htm
Is a (very) technical explanation, which rather happily (or not) examines a 10MB/S raw write speed SD as an example (scroll way down) and calculates an actual write speed at 5MB/S.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
thanks for your information, but i think there is an other problem, my class 2 card is faster as it seems . I'm copying 700 MB with 1,5MB at the moment, that is really frustrating....

hehe yea i know what you mean, mine always runs far slower than it probably should too, one point some meg/s, for both my class 2 and a class 6, never any faster, either through cwm, android usb mass storage, or my card reader. (Lots of built in card readers are just usb readers mounted to internal usb headers, and are often only usb1, which doesn't help, , usb has a lot of overhead, lots of info regarding usb overhead here http://www.smxrtos.com/articles/usb_art/usbperf.htm (if a little old))

i will give back the card. This card does not make sense with HTC HD2..
Thread can be closed ! Thanks anyway ..