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Hey guys,
don't get me wrong, I am not talking about the current stage of android on HD2.
What the guys here established so far is mindblowing, but still we are nowhere near the performance of a pure android phone like the HTC Desire.
Question is, is it possible, with a fully optimized kernel and the OS running in NAND to achieve the performance of a HTC Desire?
Having in mind, that we are basically talking about the very same hardware platform regarding cpu/gpu/ram:
Qualcomm Snapdragon 8250
ATI/AMD Z430 GPU
576 MB of RAM.
So what do you guys think?
boba
I went to a sprint store with my HD2 running Darkstone's v5 and it seems to be just as fast as, if not faster than the Evo, so there's no reason to presume it wouldn't be the same for the Desire.
I think we will have to wait until
- we can flash android directly as ROM and not only boot it and have it running on a sdcard
- the full memory available can be used. Currently the amount of ram used by android is around 250 Mbyte as far as I know. So nearly a half of ram is unused at the moment.
I am very sure that we will have great performance mostly like on desire when these points are realized.
If I use a live wallpaper on my HD2, there are some stutters when I open the "all apps"-tab. With a static wall it is in fact as smooth as the desire I used for comparison.
But I guess the overall performance is still on a way lower level than it should be out of a fully utilized NAND
Bare in mind, contrary to what you might think, Windows Mobile is in fact NOT running in any entirety once HaRET shuts it all down.
Phil
when will an android ROM be available that runs from flash
Hi,
I am interested in running android, I am a software developer so I have a clue but I have never put a non-htc rom in my hd2.
What is the timescale for an android rom being available that will replace the windows carp?
i was also wondering why so many people are creating their own versions rather than people grouping together to solve the various driver problems etc.
it seems a vastly over complex and risky process which is why i have not tried it, let alone deciding which flavour to choose.
i basically want to turn my hd2 into a decent phone, the hardware is good, the OS is carp but as yet there does not seem to be a decent way to run android other than buy an android phone.
not wanting a flame war here, i just don't get it.
I'm running Shub's Cyanogen and it already runs faster than my brother's Desire for the majority of tasks.
So yes.
@john00williams
how complex and risky is downloading a rar, extract it onto you SDcard, then running 1 exe file and waiting?! if after 10 mins you dont see android home screen, then you remove your battery to restart the phone and wait for new android build while using your old WM!!
you dont delete anything or remove anything.
how is that complex?? how??
also, fact that android is running from SD card only slows the bootup, while android itself is not visibly slower, cause WM is shut down completely and android is loaded into memory. for optimal usage you should have level 6 SD card anyway
kerman19 said:
Bare in mind, contrary to what you might think, Windows Mobile is in fact NOT running in any entirety once HaRET shuts it all down.
Phil
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
THANKYOU, I dont know why so many people are finding that hard to understand
john00williams said:
Hi,
I am interested in running android, I am a software developer so I have a clue but I have never put a non-htc rom in my hd2.
What is the timescale for an android rom being available that will replace the windows carp?
i was also wondering why so many people are creating their own versions rather than people grouping together to solve the various driver problems etc.
it seems a vastly over complex and risky process which is why i have not tried it, let alone deciding which flavour to choose.
i basically want to turn my hd2 into a decent phone, the hardware is good, the OS is carp but as yet there does not seem to be a decent way to run android other than buy an android phone.
not wanting a flame war here, i just don't get it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Noone has any idea how long a full nand build will take, but I've read in a few places that a ETA is september...
All the devs are sharing their work as far as i can see.
there are 2 or 3 main builds now, the rest are older work...
Complex?
Get the right radio, rom, and put android on the root of your SD and run it.
Not complex at all, childs play infact.
the HD2 IS A GOOD phone. Just because you dont like winmo doesnt change that.
Maybe you should have researched a little before buying it...
If you wanted android, why the didn't you buy it?
to everyone else booting android on the hd2 is a bonus.
Please search before posting too, everything I just said has been said countless times
john00williams said:
it seems a vastly over complex and risky process which is why i have not tried it, let alone deciding which flavour to choose.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Risky? It runs off the memory card, there is zero to little risk. Other than the phone heating up a little the phone being damaged is highly unlikely. And with SetCPU running mine doesn't heat up any more than it did under Windows Mobile when running intensive apps or services.
john00williams said:
i basically want to turn my hd2 into a decent phone, the hardware is good, the OS is carp but as yet there does not seem to be a decent way to run android other than buy an android phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You can tell you haven't tried out one of the recent Android builds. If I was asked to assign a percentage of usability to the Cyanogen build I'm using off my class 6 Samsung card it would be 95% and the few things which are still ropey aren't essential, or certainly not for me. I can live without full bluetooth support for example.
My phone now has Android on it, that is how I think of it. I don't think of it as a WM phone that happens to be sort of running Android, a small but important point. I haven't used Windows Mobile now for over two weeks, and there is a reason for that.
@ the moment de devs are working to get full amount of ram. Cotulla said he see no problem to make nand work but there will be no nand until half of semptember for various reasons. I think they want first fix all other problems.
jan-willem3 said:
@ the moment de devs are working to get full amount of ram. Cotulla said he see no problem to make nand work but there will be no nand until half of semptember for various reasons. I think they want first fix all other problems.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
... and that makes sense definitly. It is much easier to fix issues by for example replacing a zimage file than flashing a new rom. Also we have the possibility to boot in wimo when problems occure. In my case I have four different android builds on my sdcard as I can not make a final decision which version to run yet. Some receive frequent updates, some don't.
So we should not see the lack of a nand rom too negative, its a great opportunity to fix most of the issues.
if only scrolling is smoother , all things willl be fine with me
Pagnell said:
My phone now has Android on it, that is how I think of it. I don't think of it as a WM phone that happens to be sort of running Android, a small but important point. I haven't used Windows Mobile now for over two weeks, and there is a reason for that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Likewise, I've not run Windows Mobile for about the same amount of time, even when people were getting issues with the early builds, I wasn't.
Windows Mobile for me is gone, even in its current state, it's far more usable than my stock HD2 ever was!
I'm still on Froyo1.0, I've not tried any of the Sense Builds out.
Phil
Ask any one a month ago how they liked the desire build they would have said its buggy and needs to be smoothed out. I have fixed every thing on my desire build (except 3g=working on it) but i have the energy rom now and 2.12 radio and runing the desire v5.7 biuld and let me tell you it is way faster than last month so sept. sounds great for the rest of the bugs to be sorted out so can the desire build run fast on the hd2 just like the born android desire? ill have to say yes
p.s. i cant say ill get rid of winmo all together thats kinda the reason i bought the phone booting into android is just one extra bonus
At the moment there is only a limited amount of RAM available.
And SD cards are really really slow when writing to(even the expensive class 10 ones).
These two factors combined is the biggest performance problem at the moment. Nand and full RAM access is the only solution here I believe.
There are several benchmark programs for Android that you can run on your hd2 to see that in some areas performance is just as good as with the desire already. Thanks to the brilliant minds that work on porting Android.
Sent from my HTC Desire using XDA App
runemail said:
At the moment there is only a limited amount of RAM available.
And SD cards are really really slow when writing to(even the expensive class 10 ones).
These two factors combined is the biggest performance problem at the moment. Nand and full RAM access is the only solution here I believe.
There are several benchmark programs for Android that you can run on your hd2 to see that in some areas performance is just as good as with the desire already. Thanks to the brilliant minds that work on porting Android.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have the htc incredible for my work phone. I am using a class 6 8gb sdcard, miri's rom, and darkstones hd2froyo. There is almost no difference between the phones. Less then 10% in speed. My incredible is stock however.
Will it be possible to put both android and winmo on nand in the future?
I just recently had the chance to run my HD2 with MattC RC 1.4 side by side with a Desire and an EVO and honestly, there is little to no difference in performance in MY personal build, which for whatever reason has been pretty much flawless since I started using these Android builds. Believe it or not, I have literally never once (knock on wood) had a SOD, other than my bootup having the green screen once or twice and white screen once. I actually tried going back to WinMo the other day and literally just couldn't stomach it, the functionality just doesn't cut it for me even though I still say it is the better "business" platform when compared to Android. Too long winded? Probably.
jjones1983 said:
I just recently had the chance to run my HD2 with MattC RC 1.4 side by side with a Desire and an EVO and honestly, there is little to no difference in performance in MY personal build, which for whatever reason has been pretty much flawless since I started using these Android builds. Believe it or not, I have literally never once (knock on wood) had a SOD, other than my bootup having the green screen once or twice and white screen once. I actually tried going back to WinMo the other day and literally just couldn't stomach it, the functionality just doesn't cut it for me even though I still say it is the better "business" platform when compared to Android. Too long winded? Probably.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
add for that thet we have proper multitouch with no multitouch issues like one (desire , nexusone and incredible )
Since the first NAND build almost everyone here in the forum can't stop talking about it.
Am I the only one thinking, why do one need it?
- it makes no progress to functionality. We had everything already with SD builds.
- Switching between build is now longer and riskier.
- One needs to commit himself to a build because it won't be possible to jump from a sense to a stock, or from froyo to gingerbread with a single boot.
For example MDJ's gingerbread without GPS can be quickly switched to a full working froyo.
- With SD build one can take full potential of the storage on the phone. With NAND system size is limited and one can't install unlimited amount of apps.
- So boot time is longer with SD builds. Come-on got to be some other reason to move to NAND.
I open this discussion for people to enlight me what am I missing when I ask for SD builds.
Sent from my Android HTC HD2
Maybe u should take a look at the NAND pro and contra thread.
I fully agree with you. I don't really understand the interest for NAND. It boots faster for sure and drains a little less but compared to the advantages you mentioned of sd card or even ram NAND is not for many people.
Aside from the battery life and faster boot I think most of the desire for Android NAND is due to the dislike/hatred of windows mobile on this phone.
HTC produced a stunningly specced phone and then slapped windows mobile on it with no option to upgrade to win phone 7 or sidegrade to Android, and a lot of people see that as a bit of a slap in the face. I certainly do. Stating that there will never be an android build from HTC for it and then producing the EVO was a bit disrespectful of customers.
Also there is the (for me) a slight feeling of im-permanence of the SD builds. Yes, they are great and its fun and useful to be able to switch between them at will but the nand versions just feel a bit more solid, if you will.
A lot of it is down to human nature rather than actual technological benefit, sort of a "Hah, you said we couldnt do it but we did, so forget you". (With apologies to Cee Lo Green).
abrise said:
I fully agree with you. I don't really understand the interest for NAND. It boots faster for sure and drains a little less but compared to the advantages you mentioned of sd card or even ram NAND is not for many people.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
DUH???
Are you guys forgetting that MAGLDR does support multiple SD builds boot
for me its a winner !~!
mally2 said:
DUH???
Are you guys forgetting that MAGLDR does support multiple SD builds boot
for me its a winner !~!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1
Sent from my HTC HD2 using XDA App
I dont get it why ppl make a topic only to whine about NAND. The devs put so much hard work in it and then they see topics like this.... plzzzzz
If u dont like it ... dont use it ok ... or buy a native android phone
zat0x said:
I dont get it why ppl make a topic only to whine about NAND. The devs put so much hard work in it and then they see topics like this.... plzzzzz
If u dont like it ... dont use it ok ... or buy a native android phone
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They didnt get enough hugs as a child??
As stated before it has many improvements over the SD version:
-battery life
-stability
-loading times
-there is no risk in bricking your phone(unless someone is very very stupid, and i am not saying that someone is)
-with the sd version a download from the market sometimes took 2 minutes, now it takes max 2-3 seconds.
-flashing back to winmo if you like is maximum 5 minutes
-flashing a new android takes max 5 minutes(MAX).
- no lag at all
I am sure there are more but this is what i could think of right now.
Try and you will see.
Seriously.. Why wouldn't you like having more options to choose from?
If you are afraid that devs will stop developing for SD builds, then you shouldn't be.. There are enough people out there staying with SD builds.
I just don't like the sluggishness the WM-boot gives me.. It adds another layer of uselessness to me, as I don't use WM anymore at all..
I love my HD2 running NAND with the HTC Desire HD build of gauner. For one, I don't have to be messing around with SD mounting and unmouting anymore. I hate the fact that the main OS actually tuns off the card that you should use as swappable storage, which it was introduced for.
Everyone is entitled to their respective opinions, and there is no harm in having more to choose from.
BLAST3RR said:
Seriously.. Why wouldn't you like having more options to choose from?
If you are afraid that devs will stop developing for SD builds, then you shouldn't be.. There are enough people out there staying with SD builds.
I just don't like the sluggishness the WM-boot gives me.. It adds another layer of uselessness to me, as I don't use WM anymore at all..
I love my HD2 running NAND with the HTC Desire HD build of gauner. For one, I don't have to be messing around with SD mounting and unmouting anymore. I hate the fact that the main OS actually tuns off the card that you should use as swappable storage, which it was introduced for.
Everyone is entitled to their respective opinions, and there is no harm in having more to choose from.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1 on that. I'll be sticking with SD builds for the foreseeable future. At least until Android is perfected. The Gingerbread build doesn't even have working GPS or camcorder and is NAND. That, to me, is ridiculous.
I know its been said enough already but the clincher for me was the improved battery life. I just got a full two days with phone usage (light) SMS usage (heavy) and WiFi usage (heavy). That really was a breath of fresh air in the world of 12 hrs SD builds.
Also, i think people were right to point out a lot of draw towards the NAND build has been a reaction to WM6.5. The OS was seriously lacking and was a poor choice to put on such a capable device. It lacked the real functionality of a smartphone which seriously hampered the HD2. With android the phone seems to get a new lease on life and i am quite happy in keeping it for another 1 year.
Although it is early days for NAND builds but i am sure with the passage of time their obviously advantages will be apparent to all. Although SD build do give you fast switching but seriously it becomes a pain to keep switching and then backing up and restoring all your data and applications. I have been there and done that. Atleast with a NAND build switching is prevented and stability is creeping in.
berbecverde said:
As stated before it has many improvements over the SD version:
-battery life
-stability
-loading times
-there is no risk in bricking your phone(unless someone is very very stupid, and i am not saying that someone is)
-with the sd version a download from the market sometimes took 2 minutes, now it takes max 2-3 seconds.
-flashing back to winmo if you like is maximum 5 minutes
-flashing a new android takes max 5 minutes(MAX).
- no lag at all
I am sure there are more but this is what i could think of right now.
Try and you will see.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You missed out No Windows Mobile I really dont get this Thread,The guys have been workin on nand for months so that we can eliminate the problems we had booting off SD ,Nand has made things a lot easier now that we no longer have to rely on Windows,Ive been testing it for a day now and its fantastic,a hell of more stable and you can use every day
TheiPhoneKiller said:
You missed out No Windows Mobile I really dont get this Thread,The guys have been workin on nand for months so that we can eliminate the problems we had booting off SD ,Nand has made things a lot easier now that we no longer have to rely on Windows,Ive been testing it for a day now and its fantastic,a hell of more stable and you can use every day
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It depends on which SD build you were using. The ones in my sig are top-notch, fully-functioning and daily-use stable. The battery life is excellent.
Can someone confirm this. It seem rmnet is not stable at edge connection. The data arrow always gone and then it reconnect again. Happen with me couple times when I was browsing internetan
Sent from my HTC bravo using XDA App
MartyLK said:
It depends on which SD build you were using. The ones in my sig are top-notch, fully-functioning and daily-use stable. The battery life is excellent.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
very true but then you have TMOUS HD2 wich performs a little better than our Euro ones.lol.The other thing is wich is a good advantage is ican use more space on my SD and safely unmount it without any problems
mally2 said:
DUH???
Are you guys forgetting that MAGLDR does support multiple SD builds boot
for me its a winner !~!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Right, but Almost all my SD did not boot correctly with MagLdr
My experience with nand is FASTER A LOT, drain less battery, no lag at all (except on my old hd2 (probably broken, no proxymity detector, no more vibration, volume key works bad etc.) that lags more than with the sd card (I had to revert to win)).
Mag is a LOT Faster to download/install apps. (50kb/s now its 400k/s and installation is faster), smoother.
Because now, I can change my SD card whenever I want (Full of taken videos/photos with the phone, full of mp3 etc).
Why nand, because Lock Phones utilities are useless with Windows.
Why nand ? .... Because !
There's a few factors to consider and these can be deal breakers for some people.
1. The version of the HD2 running a Nand version. T-Mobile US phones get more space to play with whereas the Euro version doesn't. I've got a US version but I really only use 20 or so apps.
2. Data - Since downloading Topia HD last night, I had one data drop running from Nand and that was opening market. When it was SD it was constant!
3. Battery - some people are reporting excellent battery life on Nand. But they reported that on SD versions as well. Everyone has their fixes for it too, but it doesn't work for everyone. Right now I seem to be doing ok so we'll see.
4. Risk - its less riskier than flashing HSPL or a new ROM in WinMo which brings me to my final point and deal breaker for me.
5. It's no longer running WinMo!!! For me that was what I was waiting for. No more gimpy OS ruining my phone. I know a lot of people love WinMo but I'm not one of them. I almost gave this phone back when I got it in March of 2010. It was frustrating and by my 1st week of owning it I had done 3 or more fresh resets. After that I did a reset almost every month until Android became stable to run everyday. I say good riddance to WinMo finally lol
In the end, its about preference. My preference is a phone with little or no hassle and huge functionality which I now get with Android and especially now with it running from Nand. If it was still running from SD or RAM I'd still be ok as long as it wasn't WinMo.
Sent from my HTC HD2 using XDA App
One big issue with NAND, that is being overlooked, is no support right now for WinXP. The magldr seems to be flashable only in Win7. There are a number of people who still don't have Win7, myself included, and are still on WinXP.
MartyLK said:
One big issue with NAND, that is being overlooked, is no support right now for WinXP. The magldr seems to be flashable only in Win7. There are a number of people who still don't have Win7, myself included, and are still on WinXP.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Are you still on XP by choice or becouse of old hardware / no budget for new OS? if your still on XP becouse you dont wanna go Win7 i only have to say Get along with the times. I would say a update for windows XP and Vista would come sooner then later.
I have leo1024 and currently running running on a SD build. I was thinking about switching to NAND, but had few questions prior to switching.
Is the NAND build worth switching to? Is it faster? Does it consume less battery? What are the disadvantages to switching to the NAND build?
Also what is the best clean froyo NAND build?
+ 1
It could be a good move to compare two same builds (Nand and SD)
like :
Desire hd rom
NAND v :******************************************* SD v :
power consumption:..xxx*******************************power consumption:..xxx.
...
...
...
*** mean "space"
and stick this if ready.
It could stop many questions about what is better.
Thanks.
I can only tell you my experience. One of my biggest frustrations was that if I locked my phone by pressing the red end button, and tried to turn the screen back on right away, I had to wait 20-30 seconds. That no longer happens. For battery, the lowest I ever saw was a 4ma standby, but usually closer to 6-8ma. I routinely see 2ma in standby, but probably averages 4ma...this is probably 25-50% better battery. It just seems more smooth also. Plus, with RMNET being as fast as PPP, there are no longer any data drops.
Again, this is my experience. Try it...if you don't like it, you can always go back to WM and SD card builds.
mm0
I have been on nand and all kind of recovery and app2sd and ++ methods. trust me SD based built is best one. you have more choice(window and android) and that is the speciality of HD'2'(2- means 2 operating system)
battery wise nobody can't boast about nand because any latest phones bettery(including desire HD itselt) is very bad . Also android drinks battery if you are not maintained your running applications properly.
furthermore no complication and less harmful to device.so better to stick with SD. Trust me.. in couple of weeks time all guys will turn back to HD '2' do you know what i mean...??
No way I will ever go back to windows + sd...
Nand is better in more then one way, smooth all around (as mentioned never unlock delay), better battery usage, faster downloads and installs (and no freezes when doing a market install)
If you are wondering why you still have windows on your mobile because you only see your android booting up, go got nand
Sent from my HTC HD2 using XDA App
rasih5503 said:
I have been on nand and all kind of recovery and app2sd and ++ methods. (...)
so better to stick with SD. Trust me.. in couple of weeks time all guys will turn back to HD '2' do you know what i mean...??
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, thats one opinion, ok.
Personally, I didn't try all kinds of recovery, didn't try app2sd, didn't try any ++ method stuff extra extra extra!!1!. Just didn't.
I just tried a few ROMs on NAND, and generally the user experience is so good I don't want to bother using SD or RAM builds.
The biggest plus of NAND is that it makes use of the device's hardware in the way it was supposed to be, without having the deal with Windows Mobile juckyness.
The battery life is dramatically different, because constant reading and writing from SD uses battery charge that isn't even monitored by currentwidgets. If you say 'any new phone has crap battery life' you probably only tested a rom with the 60mA after call bug. These eat battery charge just as fast as RAM builds do.
imagine what happens if you compare such a system to one that averages 4 mA
My father also has an HD2 and he is running a rom that still has the notification led bug thing going on. Still he gets 3 days battery life out of it!!!
NAND For The Win
NAND is the way to go.
I experienced lots of standby battery fluctuations on SD. After trying almost every SD build that made "battery saving" claims I honestly still couldn't reliably use any of them for day to day use. So I just stuck with Window Mobile.
After flashing to NAND I usually see 1-4mA standby. Even in poor signal spots!
Well seeing that you have that damned 1024 leo, you have the ideal device for android on NAND. Advantages for you:
You have a lot of free storage, prolly 500+ since you got TMOUS
Power consumption is low
Performance in sense builds, for me, has been better, especially with Desire HD builds.
Fast boot time
Disadvantages:
Not as much free storage as to what you can get from SD builds
MAGDLR and installing a NAND build, might pose some problems for you, if you don't read the forum...
If you like winmo then installing android onto NAND may be considered a disadvantage for you.
So I went ahead and tried out the NAND method and I kinda like it but I am confused about few things.
I have read throughout the NAND forum and people keep talking about AP2SD+ thingy. I am still kinda unsure about what it is, but I am guessing its to automatically install all apps onto the SD card instead of the device itself. Am I correct about this?
Also, is there a good clean froyo build? When I was using the SD card method, I used MDJ's Froyo HD 4.6, which didn't have a custom skin. I currently see that the only good NAND build by MDJ is the Froyo Revolution v.2.3. Is there a way to remove the custom theme and revert back to the default?
Also, I see here on the MAGLDR boot menu that there is an option of "Boot AD SD". I went to Services > BootSettings >> AD SD Dir and changed the folder to "Android" which is the location of build on my SD card. I manged to get it to boot, but it just get suck on the boot screen and doesn't load up into the system.
hey why not any one with two hd2 mobiles(one with NAND and the other with SD) make a video comparision so that people could really see the speed and effiency of both roms?.i think this solves the problem!..
i like nand better then sd
Apps2sd that is used in the nand roms stores the bulk of an application on an ext partition on your SD card. This in effect gives you a ton of space for apps.
Nand builds for me work great. Battery life is better than even winmo was, and there aren't any glaring issues remaining. Its becoming very fine tuned in the nand forum. I can't speak for SD builds because I abandoned them a long time ago. You can always flash winmo back if you dont like it.
Sent from my HD2 using XDA App
as far as windows mobile is concerned its good with battery backup but if i choose between nand and sd i would have gone for nand as its really smooth and without any cons in some built and its going great with provide me better application and a lot to choose without any lags.so a liitle compromise in battery is ok for me though new nand built dont have the battery problem either.Except in few people complainig about battery issue that must be because of wrong installation or their luck
I kind of SD ....
I changed to SD from winmo recently.its smooth and no response problem yet.SD has the advantage that ,I can just go back to winmo on a reboot in case some thing goes wrong with green.I recommend SD at least for beginners.Once you are Ok with it > move to Nand if you want so ....
beat me to the question
ive been trying to decide whether i try out cwm but nand seems to do the trick for me
ive been using nand ever since it came out and i really like but the only reason why i was considering CWM is this
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=961679
they dont have a nand version currently im using wp7 about to flash mdj's rom and its really stable i havent had a problem with it ..why would you want to have more than one android os on one device (other than developing) i mean we were all waiting eagerly for nanad and now thats its here we still use the old way lol (not the old way but ..you know what i mean lol)
kidtk said:
ive been trying to decide whether i try out cwm but nand seems to do the trick for me
ive been using nand ever since it came out and i really like but the only reason why i was considering CWM is this
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=961679
they dont have a nand version currently im using wp7 about to flash mdj's rom and its really stable i havent had a problem with it ..why would you want to have more than one android os on one device (other than developing) i mean we were all waiting eagerly for nanad and now thats its here we still use the old way lol (not the old way but ..you know what i mean lol)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Use CWM, the advantage with CWM is that you can backup your NAND build, try other builds, even revert back to winmo if you want, then come back and restore you backed up android and its all back to how you had it, awesome
I have a LEO512 so I stick to Cyanogenmod and MIUI roms, I would like a really nice updated desire rom, but everyone seems to have moved on to desire HD and left the desire rom by cotulla behind, which is a shame because I have issues with some APN's with that build. I've never ran out of space and I don't use app2sd, but maybe I just don't use as many apps as some people.
I used to get sleep of death issues with all SD builds, now I dont get it with NAND, thats probably the best reason to move to NAND, instant wake up.
NAND offer way more functionality, a few appd I've played with wont install on SD android, angry birds is a perfect example, running NAND thus far has no limitations, MIUI has some very stable roms with alot of additional functionality that stock android doesnt
I tried both tytung's Gingerbread SD and NAND.
SD: ~3-5mA, fast, occassional data drop due to CLK-PPP issue
NAND/Magldr: ~1-3mA, fast and stable, no data drop. Everything works great.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=905060
richiegopal said:
hey why not any one with two hd2 mobiles(one with NAND and the other with SD) make a video comparision so that people could really see the speed and effiency of both roms?.i think this solves the problem!..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
very nice
thanks thanks
trex3300 said:
I tried both tytung's Gingerbread SD and NAND.
SD: ~3-5mA, fast, occassional data drop due to CLK-PPP issue
NAND/Magldr: ~1-3mA, fast and stable, no data drop. Everything works great.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=905060
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You've made a mistake somewhere as it isn't possible to have an SD build via cLK. And 1-3 mA?! Wow I get a consistent 4 mA with Typhoon
Sent from my Cyanogen HD2
So I have been searching the forum for a while but haven't been able to piece together a good answer from what I have been reading, so I decided to go ahead and ask. I know that these questions have been asked before, more or less, but at the rate development is going, and with the updated Android builds, I would guess things have changed even from 2-3 weeks ago, let alone 2-3 months.
What are the advantages of a NAND build (nowadays anyhow) over SD? Is it the speed?
Is battery life better on NAND or SD or it is really up to the kernel?
Are RAM editions somewhat speedier than their counterparts? if so, are they less stable or something than a regular NAND or SD version? I mean, if they are equally as stable, why isn't every developer doing RAM versions to get the most possible speed?
I know the speed of the SD card helps with SD versions to some extent. I bought a 16GB class 10 Wintec for that purpose, and it seems to do well. At that point, battery nonwithstanding, would be it worth it to go to a NAND build or would the speedy MicroSD make up most (if not all) the difference?
Thanks for the answers in advance. I just wanted to get a little bit of updated info from those in the know
While I am at it, another question to add to the list.
Does the underlying OS make a difference with the SD build? I know that Android should shut down and supersede the WM drivers, but would having WM7 over WM6.5 as the underlying build make any difference whatsoever to anything when booted into Android from SD?
thanks!
Main advantate of NAND is that you can replace SD card without turning off phone. And your build don't rely on speed of SD card. But due to small storage space, many builds still use SD which kinda defeats it's purpose.
Sent from my DL DesireZ 3.3 final using XDA App
No one has any idea on the other questions? Thanks for your input matejdo.
Again, some info is appreciated.
SD/RAM/NAND?????????????????????????/
I would really like these questions answered too.
I know that so far NAND is more complicated ....
with 2 or even 3 partitions, from EXT2/3/4, < who knows which is best.
And NAND is not as fast as RAM obv but is much safer in regards to corruption.
I have found SD builds to score higher in flops and quadrant than NAND however which is strange. SD is easier to copy to device, other than that im sure all custom roms have their issues. including screen light on lag.
i have tried and loved darkstone ram edition which was rapid but just not all there is you know what i mean, and now after giving up on dandiests desirez3.4/5 in nand and sd after too many lags, crashes and data drops etc im looking at MCCM HD V4 or MCCM GB1.8 SENSE GINGERBREAD as these seem to be the most stable build with all functioning functions but i shall soon see how they fair.........
.............................greatest respect goes to all devs for you efforts
we're nearly there!
but please any input regarding these questions would personally b appreciated!
Ok, here's my 10 cents. Some of this is debatable but these are pretty standard answers.
jotekman said:
What are the advantages of a NAND build (nowadays anyhow) over SD? Is it the speed?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, speed, responsiveness, battery life, etc.
jotekman said:
Is battery life better on NAND or SD or it is really up to the kernel?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Battery life is typically better on NAND. Kernels can also make a difference.
jotekman said:
Are RAM editions somewhat speedier than their counterparts? if so, are they less stable or something than a regular NAND or SD version?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Technically, RAM editions are faster but they are worse on battery life. Data stored in RAM requires constant power and does not survive a power cycle of the phone, therefore the data is stored typically to SD card, which also consumes more power.
jotekman said:
I mean, if they are equally as stable, why isn't every developer doing RAM versions to get the most possible speed?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Previous answer is why, more power consumption, data stored on SD.
jotekman said:
I know the speed of the SD card helps with SD versions to some extent. I bought a 16GB class 10 Wintec for that purpose, and it seems to do well. At that point, battery nonwithstanding, would be it worth it to go to a NAND build or would the speedy MicroSD make up most (if not all) the difference?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They say NAND write operations take longer than an SD card but for the life of me I still find it faster when a ROM is running completely off NAND than off NAND and an SD-EXT partition. Or, NAND versus full-SD- there is a huge difference in responsiveness between read speeds. They are much faster on NAND than even a fast SD card.
Hope that helps...
benc88 said:
I know that so far NAND is more complicated ....
with 2 or even 3 partitions, from EXT2/3/4, < who knows which is best.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It can be more complicated... until you do it once or twice and fully understand how it works. Now that this has all been out a while everything is starting to standardize and more and more ROM's are using the same partition layouts. From a performance perspective there really isn't anything noticeable between EXT 2/3/4.
Oh, most ROM's now also use CWM, which along with an SD-EXT partition can leave you with up to 7 different partitions on your device. Fortunately, you don't really have to manage any of them as the ROM's do all the work once you've set it up once.
benc88 said:
I have found SD builds to score higher in flops and quadrant than NAND however which is strange. SD is easier to copy to device, other than that im sure all custom roms have their issues. including screen light on lag.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is due to a slower write speed of NAND storage versus SD storage. But, because the read speed of NAND storage is higher you still get an overall feel of greater responsiveness and speed even though the scores are lower. NAND ROM's are easier to backup and manage via the CWM aspect.
I mean, if they are equally as stable, why isn't every developer doing RAM versions to get the most possible speed?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Possible problem may be higher amount of RAM needed. Especially sense builds would need a lot of RAM.
I have to disagree with a lot of what the post above mine said... The main difference between NAND and SD builds is with NAND builds you can use clockwork recovery, remove and replace your SD card while booted in android, and maybe a few other small improvement in stability and performance, but nothing too noticeable. Speed and battery life are about the same. You might get a little better battery life on standby with NAND. I generally got 3-5ma drain on standby with NAND, while I get 4-6ma on standby with SD. Speed and performance are pretty much the same because when you're running something with either type of build, it does it from RAM with either type of build. When an app or a process is running, it goes into ram, regardless of where the info was stored. NAND and SD are just the 2 options of where the data is stored when it's not being used by ram. Actually, the NAND in the HD2 can be slower than the NAND in good quality SD cards... but the random access speed is good in the HD2 NAND. But with a high quality SD card, you can get just as good random access speed with SD. That is what makes the performance difference with different SD cards... when the OS is trying to access small amounts of data or write small amounts of data, different SD cards will take different amounts of time to access... and the class rating of the card has nothing to do with that... in fact, class 2 cards tend to have better random access times than class 6 or 10.
But anyways, if you have a good SD card, performance and battery life are about the same... depending on the build of course. Desire HD builds tend to run a little better on NAND... but some recent SD DesireHD builds are good, too. AOSP and CM builds run pretty much the same off of SD and NAND as far as I can tell.
RAM builds work by loading more of the OS files into RAM at startup so that the random access speed of them is improved greatly, since RAM is the fastest memory and where any data is loaded to run anyways... it cuts down on the need to access the SD card for as many small system files, which improves performance and battery life in theory. The RAM is used anyways, so it doesn't use any more power keeping extra data in RAM, and since the SD card isn't accessed as much, it saves power there. But SD doesn't use much power anyways, so it's not really a noticeable power reduction. Also, RAM builds are still pretty experimental, and can have problems with data corruption... if any changes made to the os are not recorded to the SD, then if you lose power suddenly, there can be problems. Also, keeping all those system files in RAM causes you tohave less RAM available to run other apps and such... thats why there's no RAM builds for DesireHD builds, because there's not enough RAM. Personally, I never noticed too much of an increase in RAM builds performance compared to other AOSP SD builds like JDMS. Also, I'm not sure why, but I don't think RAM builds worked very good with NAND. But in theory, the system files in RAM is a good idea, especially for SD cards so it takes some stress off the SD cards. When running a build off SD, your accessing the SD to read and write system files while also accessing it as normal to run your apps or play your music or other data you have on SD. Keeping system files in RAM cuts down on the work the SD needs to do in the same way installing android to NAND does... then the SD is just used to access your media files or apps or data.
So in the end, it all depends on what you want from your phone... if you are not going to use winmo or wp7, and only use android, you might as well put android on nand, even if the improvement isn't that noticeable, because you can then use clockwork for easy updating or flashing roms, and you can change out your sd card, and there may be other small improvements. But if you still use winmo or wp7, then you have to decide if it's worth losing the ability to run more than one OS to give your android the added functionality of clockwork and other improvements. I use android on NAND for a month or so, but I didn't like how it turned my phone into just another android phone... it couldn't do anything that you couldn't do with a desire or evo or other android phone. But with the ability to run winmo or wp7 also, it's the only phone that can do it this well. When wp7 was released for the HD2, it was perfect for me because I wanted to try that OS out, and now I love that OS almost as much as android... I would have a hard time picking between the 2... luckily I don't have to. No other phone can run both of those OS's, either... I feel like I'm really making use of my HD2. If I just wanted android, I would've bought a native android phone from the beginning. But the great thing about the HD2 is no matter what OS you want, the HD2 can do it. People who want just android can make their HD2s almost like a native android phone now that it has clockwork recovery support. People who want 2 OS's can do that too. Android runs great from both SD and NAND... so use what works for you.
the battery life in android roms, is better than original windows mobile?
speed battery and efficiency are the main reasons
Yes it has a beter battery life (imo)
Ram is faster memory wich will make everything very fast, but you have to fuzz with Windows Mobile (?) to get there and that is what people dont like, the I/O on RAM is very fast, thats nice and makes quadrant scores very high
Class 10 card is good for SD versions, but imo that is very outdated, NAND is the way to go, like real Android devices loaded from the phone memory, not ram or sd, wich gives a beter battery life and fast speed (almost like stock) .. and also important , no fuzz with Windows Mobile.
And rest of the data wich isnt on your phone mem can be get of your SD card with a NAND version, cause the phone mem doesnt have rly that much space left after u installed Android on it (enough for enough apps though), class 10 mostly means a faster speed, so it will benefit you in some way
zarathustrax said:
I have to disagree with a lot of what the post above mine said...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No offense at all, but I really tried to read your massive wall of text but I got lost after the first sentence.
I beleive that the custom android roms do last longer than original winmo. I love this 2.3.2 rom on my HD2. 2.3.2 on my gf's mytouch 4g last about 18 hours on moderate call/text/ use with overclocked on 1.3
Azerox said:
speed battery and efficiency are the main reasons
Yes it has a beter battery life (imo)
Ram is faster memory wich will make everything very fast, but you have to fuzz with Windows Mobile (?) to get there and that is what people dont like, the I/O on RAM is very fast, thats nice and makes quadrant scores very high
Class 10 card is good for SD versions, but imo that is very outdated, NAND is the way to go, like real Android devices loaded from the phone memory, not ram or sd, wich gives a beter battery life and fast speed (almost like stock) .. and also important , no fuzz with Windows Mobile.
And rest of the data wich isnt on your phone mem can be get of your SD card with a NAND version, cause the phone mem doesnt have rly that much space left after u installed Android on it (enough for enough apps though), class 10 mostly means a faster speed, so it will benefit you in some way
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
for ex in win mobile, using the hd2 moderatly, how long the battery survive? and in android?
Wow! Lots of great info here!
I have been playing back and forth with different OS's and builds and SD builds and NAND builds etc. My phone is probably screaming at me to give it a break
As per responsiveness, the NAND builds (non-sense) seem to be a little snappier than the SD ones for me. The battery life seems about the same. Haven't had a problem with NAND space as I bought a US HD2 with 1 gig of ROM space, which is plenty for me. I haven't actually delved into the WM7 yet, but after reading this, I think I might give it a whirl and see what happens.
The biggest difference for me between the Android Nand/SD builds was the initial loading times. Which makes not that much of a difference because I tend not to turn off my phone anyhow.
The 2nd biggest difference is the wake from standby. On almost all the SD builds I tried, I would hit the hangup button, and the screen would come on in like 1/3-1/2 a second. If I accidentally hit it twice, I would have to wait 3-4 seconds for it to work properly again.... more presses seemed to do nothing. On a NAND build, it seems like the screen comes on instantly, and does not have the repress issue. But, then again, this is not a big issue for me at all.
The fastest build, by far, that I have tried so far is the Hyperdroid v5 build. It really does respond faster than almost anything I have put on the phone.
Thanks for all the answers people! It really helped to fill in the gaps in my admittedly shaky knowledge!
Digital Outcast said:
No offense at all, but I really tried to read your massive wall of text but I got lost after the first sentence.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, sorry about that... I tend to try to fit too much info into a post all at once and I sometimes don't organize it well. I'll also ramble on sometimes to get everything out I'm trying to say and it ends up making the reader miss a lot of the important parts.
zarathustrax said:
Yeah, sorry about that... I tend to try to fit too much info into a post all at once and I sometimes don't organize it well. I'll also ramble on sometimes to get everything out I'm trying to say and it ends up making the reader miss a lot of the important parts.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i understood it quite well..i think u have alot of valid points.. There arent big differences between sd/ram/nand...its a matter of choice imo..
11111
11111lllllllllllllllllllllllll
if its on sd card it will still load into android after turning off everytime right? i dont want to see windows anymore at all
zarathustrax said:
I have to disagree with a lot of what the post above mine said... The main difference between NAND and SD builds is with NAND builds you can use clockwork recovery, remove and replace your SD card while booted in android, and maybe a few other small improvement in stability and performance, but nothing too noticeable. Speed and battery life are about the same.....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you for your post it has the best thought out points for and against, and greatly helped me in deciding which build to go for.
Hello there
I've just got an HD2 (I know it's a little late),
but i found out that this device is even better on some midrange phones in the market (according to the budget i currently have)
i knew there are WinMobile 6.5 builds, Windows 7.8, Android SD and NAND, UBuntu and finally MEEGO.
forget about WinMo 6.5, it's really outdated.
I know that some will tell me it's a matter of personal choice, but what i'm searching for is the most stable, no battery problems, and applications support.
any suggestions about the top 3 ROMS i should test/Use?
thank you all
I'd bet on Android...
If you know that it's purely a matter of opinion then what's the logic in asking?
IMO - WP7 is fast, fluid and the best OS if you don't use too many apps
- Android works fairly well and has a much better app selection than WP, but isn't quite as smooth. It's more suited for high-end hardware
- WinMo is great (yes, that does indeed mean Windows Mobile 6.5) for business-oriented usage, with excellent battery life and stability.
bib*oops said:
I'd bet on Android...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
thanks bib*oops
Nigeldg said:
If you know that it's purely a matter of opinion then what's the logic in asking?
IMO - WP7 is fast, fluid and the best OS if you don't use too many apps
- Android works fairly well and has a much better app selection than WP, but isn't quite as smooth. It's more suited for high-end hardware
- WinMo is great (yes, that does indeed mean Windows Mobile 6.5) for business-oriented usage, with excellent battery life and stability.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
thanks Nigeldg, well i really don't want to take it from the matter of opinion side of view, that's why I asked the question
I want opinions about stability, performance and battery life, with wide applications support.
the guy i bought the phone from is using an Android 2.2 build, is it worth Upgrading to the latest 4.1.2?
my Ex-phone was an touch HD (Blackstone), so i was used to putting Winmo roms only.
i'll have to read a little about how to put Android, WM7 roms.
I Agree with you that Winmo is the best in performance, battery life and currently mostly for business use, because Applications are not developed anymore for Winmo, even existing apps(specially Social) stopped working.
that's why i don't consider putting Winmo anymore, except for as a backup.
thanks
Could you two please suggest Roms one for android and another for WM7?
there are a lot, and i don't which to begin with.
I can't answer any questions unless you provide more information about what your usage of the device will be like. Different things suit different people, you'll probably just have to try some ROMs out yourself and choose later.
Hi,
I also bought my HD2 a little late in the game (some 6 months ago) and it is my second phone, I bought specificaly because I was curious to test WP7 and I knew it to be a very flexible phone if I changed my mind or new things came by (like WP8, still hope it will work some day).
That said, I use PDAimatejam WP7.8 ROM (v8.7, to be exact) and it is very stable and very, very fast, very suited to be your daily driver. There are 2 downsides (that I believe are common to all WP7 roms in the HD2):
- Lack of apps, compared to Android (that has nothing to do with the HD2, obviously). The rom I mentioned comes with the nokia apps (drive, music, etc.), I would say that your basic needs are there, depending on the type of user you are.
- Batery usage is so-so, and the batery level is inacurate. You need to perform "rituals" (look for the camera trick, for example) to have a decent battery life.
In the android front I cannot give you a personal experience (I have a Galaxy Nexus but never used android in the HD2) but the development there is very active. I would sugest you to go to a 4.1 or 4.2 ROM, it is a vast improvement over any 2.x version of android. From what I read there are very stable versions (my phone actually came with android 4.0, but I used it just for a couple hours like that). Android has a much better app coverage and as I said the development is very active, you have more ROM options to chose from. I do not know if there are any specific bugs/"characteristics" that you need to be aware, as is the case with WP7 and the batery.
Another thing, you can always try some of the options for a few days (I would recommend at least a week or two for each OS) and decide which one you like better, or even dual-boot Android and WP7. Thats the beauty of the HD2.
Hope it helps.
Good luck,
Nigeldg said:
I can't answer any questions unless you provide more information about what your usage of the device will be like. Different things suit different people, you'll probably just have to try some ROMs out yourself and choose later.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, these are the apps I Mostly use: Facebook, Twitter, WhatsUp, Skype, Navigation, RSS....
Android and WM7 will it be then i guess, with android as the main OS.
could you point me to a good Anroid ROM to start with?
sandro.bertini said:
Hi,
I also bought my HD2 a little late in the game (some 6 months ago) and it is my second phone, I bought specificaly because I was curious to test WP7 and I knew it to be a very flexible phone if I changed my mind or new things came by (like WP8, still hope it will work some day).
That said, I use PDAimatejam WP7.8 ROM (v8.7, to be exact) and it is very stable and very, very fast, very suited to be your daily driver. There are 2 downsides (that I believe are common to all WP7 roms in the HD2):
- Lack of apps, compared to Android (that has nothing to do with the HD2, obviously). The rom I mentioned comes with the nokia apps (drive, music, etc.), I would say that your basic needs are there, depending on the type of user you are.
- Batery usage is so-so, and the batery level is inacurate. You need to perform "rituals" (look for the camera trick, for example) to have a decent battery life.
In the android front I cannot give you a personal experience (I have a Galaxy Nexus but never used android in the HD2) but the development there is very active. I would sugest you to go to a 4.1 or 4.2 ROM, it is a vast improvement over any 2.x version of android. From what I read there are very stable versions (my phone actually came with android 4.0, but I used it just for a couple hours like that). Android has a much better app coverage and as I said the development is very active, you have more ROM options to chose from. I do not know if there are any specific bugs/"characteristics" that you need to be aware, as is the case with WP7 and the batery.
Another thing, you can always try some of the options for a few days (I would recommend at least a week or two for each OS) and decide which one you like better, or even dual-boot Android and WP7. Thats the beauty of the HD2.
Hope it helps.
Good luck,
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
thanks Sandro, I will definitly give WM7 a shot,
any quick guides on burning Android/WM7 ROMS, i know the forum has articles about that, but asking experienced users is better for a noob like me at the moment
thanks.
If you don't browse the web too much and don't do any heavy gaming then go for a GB ROM. Choose one yourself, there are tonnes and all are good, but just don't use Sense. A CM7/MIUI GB ROM should work fine for you. I've never used WP so I can't recommend any ROMs, I guess just get the latest version if you can. I'm not going to link you to any guides because you're supposed to search (that's one of the forum rules) so I don't really see why I should do it for you
Nigeldg said:
If you don't browse the web too much and don't do any heavy gaming then go for a GB ROM. Choose one yourself, there are tonnes and all are good, but just don't use Sense. A CM7/MIUI GB ROM should work fine for you. I've never used WP so I can't recommend any ROMs, I guess just get the latest version if you can. I'm not going to link you to any guides because you're supposed to search (that's one of the forum rules) so I don't really see why I should do it for you
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
thanks Nigeldg
if you want an easy intro to android, consider installing Darkstone's superram froyo on SD.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=870518
it's an easy quick install, everything is supported hardware-wise and if you have the latest stock rom (3.14?) you won't have to change anything on the phone. it boots and runs fast from winMo.
if i'd known how easy and useful it was going to be i'd have installed this ages ago.
theabsurdman said:
if you want an easy intro to android, consider installing Darkstone's superram froyo on SD.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=870518
it's an easy quick install, everything is supported hardware-wise and if you have the latest stock rom (3.14?) you won't have to change anything on the phone. it boots and runs fast from winMo.
if i'd known how easy and useful it was going to be i'd have installed this ages ago.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Lol you're a good few years late with that one mate
theabsurdman said:
if you want an easy intro to android, consider installing Darkstone's superram froyo on SD.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=870518
it's an easy quick install, everything is supported hardware-wise and if you have the latest stock rom (3.14?) you won't have to change anything on the phone. it boots and runs fast from winMo.
if i'd known how easy and useful it was going to be i'd have installed this ages ago.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks theabsurdman, but i already have Froyo, and i'm thinking about getting the latest Android version.